Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Deana Sievert, Chief Nursing Officer at UH/Ross Heart Hospital, The Ohio State Health System

Transcript

Deana Sievert, Chief Nursing Officer at UH/Ross Heart Hospital, The Ohio State Health System · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

• 0:00
  - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
• 0:03
  I'm thrilled today to be joined by Idina Seaver,
• 0:05
  the Chief Nursing Officer at University Hospital in Ross
• 0:08
  Hart Hospital at the Ohio State Wexner Medical Center.
• 0:12
  Dina, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
• 0:14
  - Thanks, Laura. It's a pleasure being here.
• 0:17
  - Now, I know we have a lot to talk about,
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  and certainly I'm excited to learn more about
• 0:21
  what you're doing at, um, LTER Medical Center
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  and some of the different ways that, um, you know,
• 0:26
  you're really thinking about the future
• 0:27
  of growth and development.
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  But before we dive into those questions,
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  can you tell me a little bit more
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  about yourself and your background?
• 0:33
  - Sure, yeah. I've, um, been here at Ohio State.
• 0:36
  It's just over the two year mark.
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  Um, uh, and I've been in the chief nursing officer role
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  here since I came.
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  Um, prior to that I was the chief Nurse executive, um,
• 0:46
  for a health system up in, um,
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  northern Ohio, southern Michigan.
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  Um, prior to that really was just kind of moved up the ranks
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  to, you know, through the nursing leadership chain.
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  And then, um, my background, um,
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  actually was all in critical care nursing,
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  pretty much all types of critical nurse,
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  critical care nursing except for pediatrics and burn.
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  Um, so really had a lot of opportunities, um,
• 1:10
  when I was there at the bedside that I think really helped
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  me to be able to grow and adapt
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  and develop into, you know, um, a, a leader.
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  And so, um, it's been a great journey.
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  - That's excellent to hear,
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  and certainly, um, some amazing opportunities it sounds
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  like, for you over the years now, what are some
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  of the biggest issues that you're following in healthcare?
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  What's top of mind for you?
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  - Yeah, you know, I think right now, um, uh, a couple
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  of the, um, big things that,
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  that I know we're tackling here at, um, at Ohio State, uh,
• 1:40
  first of all is just nurse leader burnout.
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  Um, you know, I think we were
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  so focused on our frontline nurses, uh, post pandemic,
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  which was critical and important work to be to do.
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  But I think, you know, when we were focusing on that,
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  we really moved a lot of the, of that workload of, Hey,
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  we've gotta work with our frontline staff on wellness
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  and, you know, wellbeing and all of that.
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  Um, and, and really trying
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  to mitigate the burnout in the front,
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  in the front ranks, if you will.
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  And so, you know, um, we kind of forgot about
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  that nursing leader,
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  and I think now that's kind
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  of coming back to kind of bite us.
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  And, um, so we're really trying to drill down and, and,
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  and develop support, um, you know, give them permission, um,
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  you know, for wellness and really ensure that they're,
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  that they're acting on that.
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  That's probably been one of the bigger things
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  that we've been focused on here at Ohio State.
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  Um, another issue that I know is one
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  that many organizations are seeing and
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  and dealing with is just, you know, the workplace violence
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  that's coming directly from the patient
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  and visitors towards our nursing teams.
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  Um, you know, how do we mitigate that?
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  Um, and then I think, uh, you know, the other one
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  that I know I've had some conversations with some
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  of my colleagues around the country is, you know,
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  that clinical nurse specialist role.
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  Um, you know, and, and how do we develop that?
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  How do we change that?
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  Because so many of our, uh, colleges of nursing,
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  universities of nursing have closed their clinical nurse
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  specialist programs,
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  and now I think we're starting to see that
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  and, um, you know, seeing the impact of that
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  where we're not able to refill those positions and,
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  and so how are we gonna pivot and and navigate that?
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  So those are, those are like three big things that,
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  that we're kind of working on here at Ohio State.
• 3:29
  - Wow. There's a lot there.
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  I think, you know, so powerful to hear.
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  You talk about some of the different challenges you're still
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  facing in terms of the fallout from the pandemic
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  and that burnout, um, you know, climbing up the, the ranks
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  as you're thinking through, you know,
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  how can we really make sure we're supporting not only the
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  frontline leaders, but also, you know,
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  leaders within the nursing, um, chain as well in pipeline.
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  Um, it, that's really fascinating.
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  And then too, I,
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  I know across the country it seems like there's been an
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  uptick in workplace violence for hospitals
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  and health systems and against healthcare workers.
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  And so to, to really have that front of mind
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  and understand what, um, nurses need today, I think is,
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  is truly, um, you know, helpful and, and important.
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  And then finally is fascinating
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  to hear about the clinical nurse specialist role, um,
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  and how you're navigating, um, potentially, you know, trying
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  to fill those responsibilities.
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  I'm wondering, you know, when you look at,
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  especially along those lines in, in the programs
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  and the ways that you're designing, um, the workforce
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  around these challenges, what is really changing?
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  Are you seeing, um, you know,
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  and how are you, I guess, able to continue to, um,
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  have those responsibilities
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  of the clinical nurse specialist filled,
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  even if you may not have somebody
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  who is specifically trained in one of those closed programs?
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  - Yeah. You know, it's really been, um, interesting and,
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  and I was so thankful when I was connecting with some
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  of my colleagues around the country to hear
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  that they're struggling with the same thing
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  because, you know, um, I think that,
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  I think it's gonna be important that our voices
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  around the country are, are heard on this.
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  Um, and, and that we partner with our, um, academia, um,
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  entities to, to figure out how do we solve this, right?
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  And, um, and,
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  and so we're obviously the CNS role really intersects in,
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  in the patient care is particularly around quality,
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  around safety, and then around education, both patient and,
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  and some staff education.
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  And, you know, that leaves a big gap
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  for us when we don't have that CNS role to really help,
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  help fill and,
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  and, you know, being a larger academic medical center,
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  that role is really central to what, to what we do
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  and how we operationalize a lot
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  of our quality improvement programs, a lot
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  of our safety improvement programs.
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  And so it's been kind of a put us, put us back on our heels,
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  um, you know, to be transparent.
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  And so I think, you know, we're, we're partnering
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  with our college of nursing here at Ohio State who, um,
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  you know, they're just outstanding partners.
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  I, I, I cannot say enough about them.
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  Um, you know, but the reality of it is, is that, that they,
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  all of these programs were closed for a reason, right?
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  It, it wasn't just that they were like, oh,
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  we just think we're not gonna teach CNS anymore.
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  Um, it's been because the, the, um, you know, the number
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  of people going into those programs has been so small
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  and, you know, and maybe that's on us, um,
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  where we haven't done a good enough job, um,
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  of really advocating for our staff
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  to go into those programs.
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  I, you know, I don't know, hindsight's, um,
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  not quite clear yet.
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  Um, but, you know, I think we've got some opportunities,
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  like for example, um, you know, if,
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  if we can't always fill the job with a CNS
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  because there just isn't that opportunity to do so
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  because we don't have the applicants, you know, um,
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  what about like a DNP, um, nurse, you know, a nurse
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  that has gone through those evidence-based practice, um,
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  courses, and it really is all about
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  that implementation science
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  and, um, how
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  to effectively implement evidence-based practice at
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  the point of clinical care.
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  So I think we definitely have some opportunities, um,
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  you know, that we're looking at here and,
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  and how we may need to pivot.
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  Um, but I also think, you know, coming together with some
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  of our other partners across the country to really begin
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  to sit down and partner with our academic partners
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  to figure out, um, you know, what can we do to, to maybe,
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  um, fill this gap, um, that, that is,
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  that is quickly growing, um, and, and,
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  and how are we gonna approach that?
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  Um, there certainly are some colleges
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  that are still out there, um, you know,
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  and maintain a CMS program.
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  So I think, you know, that door isn't completely shut,
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  but I think there's lots of things that we need to do, um,
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  from an organizational perspective to partner to, um,
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  you know, help fill the seats in those programs when
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  those programs are there.
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  And then, you know, in the meantime,
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  I think we've gotta figure out that stop gap.
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  And, and for us here, you know, one of the things
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  that we've put on the table is do we look at that nurse
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  that has the DNP skillset, um,
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  around evidence-based practice
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  and implementation science that we could maybe leverage
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  until we can, um, really figure out where we're gonna go
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  with our academic partners around the CNS education?
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  - That's fascinating to hear.
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  Thank you so much for diving one bit deeper into, um,
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  your thought process there
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  and how you're really looking into the future
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  and, you know, speaking about, looking ahead,
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  what are you most excited about right
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  now and what makes you nervous?
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  - Yeah, so the thing that I'm most excited about is,
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  you know, we're starting to see the Gen Z population really,
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  um, you know, come into our rank and file and, and,
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  and that's so exciting.
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  I think, um, you know, I'm looking forward
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  to really leveraging, uh, the skillsets of, of the Gen Zs
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  and, and, and particularly, you know, there's,
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  I think there's so much opportunity for us in healthcare
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  to leverage technology,
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  but I think that maybe, you know, gen Xers and,
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  and millennials, you know, we're like,
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  yeah, okay, we can do that.
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  Um, but I think our Gen Z um, uh, ranks are really going
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  to adopt the technology and change the workflows for us.
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  Um, and, and I'm really excited about that
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  and really excited to partner with, um, you know, our,
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  our Gen Z nurses to, to really identify
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  where, where do you see gaps?
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  Where can we bring in technology and,
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  and really begin to implement it
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  and use it like it's intended to.
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  I think historically, this is just my experience over my
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  career is, is that, you know, we, we tend
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  to bring in technology,
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  but maybe not implement it to its full capacity and,
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  and leave a whole bunch of opportunity hanging out there.
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  And I think with our Gen Z nurses, I think we've got
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  so much opportunity and, and I'm excited about that
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  because I see them being early adopters at technology,
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  and then not only that, I see them taking us
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  to the next level and possibly advancing the technology
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  with, with the vendors and different partners that we have.
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  So that's where I get really excited to see what we can do
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  to help offload some of that, um, you know,
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  that non-licensed required work, um, for our teams,
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  but then also, um, really changing the workflows for, um,
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  for our nurses, uh, and, and,
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  and leveraging technology to make that even better.
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  - That's such a great point.
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  And, you know, certainly, um, it will be great to have
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  that ability of those skillsets on the team
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  and, um, continue to maximize, um, the potential I guess
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  of, of bringing on technology
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  and bringing on different ways of thinking about the work
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  and thinking about how you can, um, really, you know, care
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  for patients in a more strategic way.
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  Um, mm-Hmm. , I'm wondering too, you know,
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  in speaking of how, um, you know, healthcare is changing,
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  what do you see as being essential for leaders
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  to be successful over the next two to three years
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  as this landscape continues to evolve?
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  As you know, we continue to see challenges in many respects
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  with workforce and, and technology.
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  Um, what do leaders need in order to be successful?
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  - Yeah, that's such a great question.
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  And you know, I think, um,
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  when I look at nursing leadership now, um, you know,
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  I'm seeing, uh, nurses moving into leadership roles.
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  Um, you know, much younger than what, what
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  that happened when I was still at the bedside, right?
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  I mean, before you moved into a nursing manager,
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  nursing director role, something like that, you know,
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  you usually had a good number of years
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  of experience before you did that.
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  And today we're seeing nurses move into leadership roles
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  and younger and younger and, um, you know,
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  and so one of the things I think that is, has proven
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  to be really stressful,
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  and I think it would be stressful for any nursing leader,
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  not just because they're younger,
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  but you know, I think, I think it does add an element, um,
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  of, of maybe, uh, barrier that we have to overcome.
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  You know, one of the biggest things is
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  that I think we've gotta learn, um, a coaching mentality.
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  Now we've always talked about, hey,
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  you've gotta be a good coach
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  and, you know, really push your team.
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  But I think it's changed a little bit, you know, uh, and,
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  and, and you just think about this a little bit, um,
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  and we see this in some of the other, um, you know,
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  disciplines or, or not, not healthcare disciplines,
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  but like in sports where, you know, you see now maybe a,
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  a person coming into a college, um, athletic team
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  and they're maybe only there for a year or two,
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  and then they're moving on to the pros
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  and that, um, college coach has to really get adept at then,
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  you know, rebuilding that team quickly
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  and then moving them forward.
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  And I kind of liken that to
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  what we're seeing today in our nursing ranks where,
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  you know, we see so often now where as soon as new grads,
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  um, are coming into, um, our fold, you know,
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  before we even get them started on the floors, they're,
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  they're saying things to us like, well,
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  how do I move into a leadership role?
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  Or how do I, you know, I wanna go on to be A-C-R-N-A,
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  or I want to go on to be an np
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  and so I'm only gonna be here for a year or two.
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  And you think about that impact to that team, right?
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  That nursing leader, that nurse manager is really having
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  to recreate then that team constantly now.
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  And that takes that, that, that kind of a coaching mentality
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  because you know,
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  now you've gotta really stay focused on building that team,
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  building it quickly, and then, you know,
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  still accomplishing all of the goals
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  that you've got set forward, um, for you.
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  And so I think that one of the core foundational things
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  that we're working on here with our nurse leaders is,
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  how do you be a coach and how do you,
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  how do you not doing individual coaching, which is important
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  and you still need to do that,
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  but how do you coach a team specifically talking about,
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  alright, I've got, you know,
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  five new grads coming in this month.
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  I know they're only gonna be here for two years.
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  How do I, how do I create a successful team knowing
• 13:59
  that I only have them here for two years?
• 14:03
  - That's such a fascinating, um, way to describe
• 14:06
  how the teams are evolving
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  and certainly, um, interesting to have that approach and,
• 14:10
  and to really get into
• 14:12
  what it takes from a leader in order to be that coach.
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  Um, and that mentality of, you know,
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  constantly recreating the teams,
• 14:18
  constantly evolving and innovating.
• 14:20
  Dina, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
• 14:23
  This has been a really fun and interesting conversation,
• 14:25
  and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.