Latest / Fire Engineering Podcast / The 3 Essentials of an Effective Fireground Arrival Report | Tactical Impact
Transcript
- Nat Kapustin: From MSA helmets and streamlight flashlights to seek thermal imaging cameras and so much more, the firestore.com has everything you need to serve your community safely and effectively. Hey, welcome back to another edition of Fire Engineering's Tactical Impact. I'm your host, Jim Silvernail. With me is my co host and friend Jason Hovelman. Jason, great to see ya. I know you've been on vacation for a couple days. How are you, my friend? Outstanding. Good to see everybody. Good to see you. this is the show about tactics, and today we're gonna do just that. we are going to highlight another article from our Fine Fire Engineering and it's a good one. Jason picked it out. He's our talent acquisition manager. And he did a phenomenal job again. But this article comes from us from August of twenty twenty six, so it's pretty pretty pretty almost cut just a couple months ago. But we're we're good to go. And so we you know, when we talk about tactics, really, you know, what where does where did tactics start? And that really starts with the implementation. And nothing nothing on the fire ground really starts without a size up, but that's not what this is about. This is about size up, but we're talking about a very specific component of size up and the the author here does a very good job of describing that component in his article. his article is entitled The Three Essential Components of an Arrival Report. So we are going to talk about an arrival report and how we can set the scene. but before I say any more, I'm gonna let Jason introduce our our guest here. Yeah, thanks Jim, and I agree. It's great article. he took a topic that sometimes is brushed aside as very simple or or just as an abbreviation to tactics, but it actually leads into exactly what's gonna happen on the fire ground. And so with us today is Chandler Moore from Martin County, Florida, Fire Rescue since 2010. Been a captain since 2020, served some time as a training captain for Martin County. got an associate degree in fire science, bachelor's degree in emergency services from University of Florida, a fire two instructor two, all the good stuff. And so I'll let him expand on his experience and his background and anything I missed in that short bio. So Chandler, welcome. Tell us a little bit about you, about where you work, your experiences, and what moved you to write Such a great article for fire engineering. Yeah, thanks guys for having me. really cool opportunity. yeah, as far as background goes, I'm actually a second generation firefighter. my father worked for Martin County where I'm at for nineteen years and before that he actually retired as a battalion chief in Riviera. and he did about twenty years there. So he did thirty nine years. my cousin works for my same department. We had one fire where my dad was on the panel, I was on one nozzle, my cousin was on the other nozzle. So we're kind of a metro-sized department in Martin County. I've been able to watch us progress. Like you said, I've been on since 2010. I was a reserve before that, as a lifeguard briefly. then I I would do even just ride times with my dad kinda as I was going through that two-year track program to get my associates in fire science. so just it's kind of county I grew up in. Well, I actually grew up just south, but as far as fire department goes, it's it's where where I've been, I've just been able to watch so much evolution from you know, it maybe my first ten years or so really, I mean honestly until I was getting close to promoted or already promoted, there was really just a narrow lens on Martin County. you know, and then as you, you know, I actually got promoted from a firefighter EMT position to a training captain position, which that'll put some pressure on you real quick. and you know, definitely got the felt need to get a wider grass, right? It was one thing to have your own opinions, but to understand how to defend when you get different crews rate rotating in and you're trying to give a critique on a captain with twenty years and you're like, ooh man, I I kinda gotta dial things in. So that was probably the most f foundational time for me in my career during roughly that year in training and then to be able to transition to the street after that. Actually went back to my old crew, which was kind of cool and unique. So you know, left and then come back a year later with power, which is scary. you know, but that couldn't have went better. it was a b busiest house in the department, so was able to just get so much experience. And then as it relates to some of this article, what was really cool about that is literally everyone on that crew has now been promoted, right? So it was just a very motivated house. It was people looking to get get better, and I inherited such an awesome crew. I mean, the the two captains who were in there previously had just invested so much in me, so much in that crew. So the energy and drive there was awesome. And really what what was amazing was to be able to work with these guys and start getting them in the right seat. And then our department had experimented with some apprentice programs or just actual captain checkoffs and they'd send them into me and I'd be able to work with these guys over and over again and and just see what I was working on with arrival reports or size ups and just the amount of conversations and the amount of struggles, you know, that different individuals would come in. and and you just gotta see such a spectrum of individually these guys who were trying to work on both the concept of size up and arrival report which are distinct and you know as I was reading studying learning taking all these different classes seeing both the national and then trying to integrate that into your local context which had fundamentally been my eyes were opened you know maybe about six years ago and so was our department too maybe about eight years ago I'd say we kind of got moving in the right directions, right people in training. And then over the last five years were just radical growth and evolution where you're seeing all these national principles, whether it's primary search, whatever it is, just really cool to see what our department was in 2010 when I got hired, versus if you were the citizen, you know, now, the level of service that you would get is fundamentally different. And that's a credit to the national service and it and things like fire engineering that have helped to progress Departments like mine. Chandler, real quick, yeah, explain explain your service area, kind of how it looks and kind of where you're located in Florida, Martin County. Yeah, so Martin County is kind of an interesting spot, right? We're on that like we're not really South Florida, you know, some people might classify as that, but functionally when you think of South Florida, if you think Miami or or or these larger cities and this urban sprawl, that's not us, right? We're actually we're all at that stops pretty hard. right. We have four story limit. you know, I I think our hospitals are only six story building in the entire county. and yet you go north of us in the Port St. Lucie, you have kind of that urban sprawl wanting to continue and then it kind of fades out. so we're a really kind of unique jurisdiction and you know we've got very big urban areas surrounding us to our south, north, and yet we're this kind of, you know, from a political standpoint, right, it's it's the just say no county, just say no to building, just say no to growth, right? So we have had to evolve and work within that. yet, like I said, we're we're about a metro sized apartment, right? I think we're pushing like 350 street personnel or getting close to that now. run eleven stations. you know, most of us are are we all cross-trained, right? So fire rescue, right? All majority people paramedics. some some people like me get to just be an EMT and be a captain, which is a beautiful thing. I'm a dying breed though. You know, we run probably about 80% A EMS, you know, kind of standard. you know, your your average department out there, you know, it's bar w fire wise. You know, we've got our little hot spots and our hot streaks, but overall, probably our numbers look pretty similar to just your average department out there. we do have a lot of wildland urban interface. So, you know, one of our depart one of our stations, actually where my dad was working, covers about 50% of the county geographically, right? Because it's just covering so many square miles. We've got a few that really are our, you know, suburban ish wildland areas. They are where some of our wider service gaps can be, which is really interesting because we have, you know, Port Salerno, where I spent four years as captain. You know, you're talking about a six or seven square mile area, busiest station in the county, but then you've got, you know, something like Indiantown, where you're gonna have twenty five minutes till your second dude gets out there. Right, and just two radically different things. So to see you actually get a few of these unique cultures that develop within the department because there's a lot of different you know, whether it's working the interstate or the turnpike, you've got a couple stations for that, you know, you've got a mix of socioeconomic areas kind of toward the coast, extreme, you know, McMansions where you know you've got tons of money right on the coast, and then right next door you've got the trailer parks and the you know, just so much diversity, which has been really cool to be able to get A lot of different experience and a lot of different subsets because I've done about been a captain now at four different stations. So you know, been able to kind of spread that out now. I wanted you to explain that because a lot of places think that you know you know this won't work for them or or whatever whatever it is. Your your experiences and your response area dictates that you adapt this article, which I think is well well done and and will but any anybody in any demographic or geographic area can t take valuable lessons from what you've put out there. So that's why I asked you that question because I knew you had a I looked you up a little bit. You had a very diverse response area that this is gonna lend itself to just about anybody no matter where they are. Absolutely. You know and that's and two again kind of the credit of just what's out there. Obviously our department has done its its own thing. But my and I have just learned so much from from the different classes and the different lectures and from articles and books out there. So it really is taking what's everything and then adapting it to your context, you know. All right, let's get into this thing. So you know, you start off, you know, we we we already kind of hinted a little bit that you know, tacally implementation starts with a size up, and obviously a large component of the initial size up is a rated report that sets the tone. And kind of gives direction to incoming companies that help you out. So you know, you made a very good point. You know, size up is not a radio report and a rated report is not a size up, and there's a difference. I'd like you to explain that to us a little bit first. Yeah, absolutely. you know, so as it relates to size up, I think this is you know, even my crew, right? I mentioned later in the article that we we do a thing called size up Sunday, right? I think I was one of those guys who was guilty of that. I would I would didn't recognize the distinction between the two. but But there is, right? So what I try to say in the article, right, is you is your size up is really an ongoing process, right? Your arrival report is dependent on a size up, right? But it's a very small window of the entire s size up process, which then that arrival report is planted in there, right? Because size up is gonna include everything, right? It's in it's you know, your initial notes, right? It's your you know, we're we're using the app to first do, right? It's being able to look at the structure, it's being able to look at the str you know. basically everything, demographics on it, right? And then as you're pulling up, right, size up includes the conditions, it can include, you know, victim profiling, structure profiling, whatever it is. and then obviously size up, and this is just really the key point is size up is ongoing, right? It's continuing for your 360, it's continuing while you're interior. And it can be you know it everyone's job is size up, right? But it can be again contextualized to your specific assignment, right? Rick should be thinking from a RIC standpoint, right? Where is the May Day gonna be, right? Where your arrival report, right? Like I said, it's gonna be dependent on size up factors, but it really is as your unit is pulling up to the scene, right? Be it you know, structure fire, wildland fire, MVC, right? We all know arrival report can be on any call type, right? You pull up and it is the initial radio report that you are providing as the first arriving unit, right? It's basically we've got the notes coming in, we already we we have all the outside. calls coming in, right? We have the outside information, this is us. This is what we see right off the rip. And it's kind of starting the communication process on scene. Good point. It's about the communications. And that's what we're gonna get into. And you you have really three you've identified three major components that r that trul trigger and make up a good rate of report. But before I get into that, Jason, I know you've given a bunch of these. Are there some you'd like to take back and there's some you'd like to keep in your over your career? Because I can tell you right now, there is some size ups. I've gone back and I've said, What in the hell did I just say on the radio? But you you know you have. You know what you know the calls I'm talking about. And some of mine are memorialized. They're they're recorded and they're they're out there. But yes, a hundred percent. But at the same time, we're able to share those and go, don't do this. Yeah. Share the r if you have the ability to get radio traffic from and maybe I'm stealing some of your thunder here with the practice we're gonna get into, but if you have the ability to go to your dispatch center and get some of the radio traffic, please do that. 'Cause you're gonna be like, I was calm and collective and then you hear it and you're like, I was screaming like, you know, I don't w I won't say it. But yeah, I mean I've had some where I pulled up and it's like, I want to go to work so bad is like, Okay, on the scene, heavy fire one line off. What did I just tell you? I didn't tell you anything, but yeah, we have a working fire, but or sometimes you babble it too much. But I'm not gonna babble anymore. I'm gonna let this gentleman get into his three components of content, flow, and tone. So let's start off with the first one. I I think I like the way that you save tone for last because I think that is one of the most critical ones. I mean, yeah, we need to know all the content and all the in how to flow, but really that tone part is really hard to teach. to our younger, our new and up and coming officers, because until you've actually sat in that front right seat and you pulled up at three in the morning, fire's blowing out. How do you keep them controlled? How do you keep them on a good, you know, how do you ha a very communicable s radio report? So let's let's start with content. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you, you know, what are some things that you feel are important to convey in that basic First couple seconds of arriving on a fire. Yeah, exactly. Right. So with content, you know, one of the things that I put in and I got this actually from my fire chief back in the day, right? We have tactical bat benchmark working fire, right? And so I I start my content with that, which for me is kind of the tracks in my brain for starting my flow. I'm jumping a little ahead there, but part of the content is is this a working fire or not? Right off the rip, right? So, you know, TAC one, engine three zero is arrival to a working structure fire. Boom. That starts me off, gets the wheels going, and it also primes everyone listening. We all just know you hear it's a working fire, this is a real job. Everyone now is paying attention. And that was kind of the advice I took back in the day and ingrained that into my my arrival, right? Obviously, not always gonna be there, right? Sometimes you're just arrival and then you move into this next component, which is what is it? Right? What is this a structure, right? What is the structure? The basic details of the structure, right? Now as we think about Obviously, knowing arrival reports can be more than structures. I'm gonna focus on that, right? I I just try to describe to people the box, right? What what are you looking at? What is the hazard area that we're dealing with, right? Whether it's single family residential, 2,000 square foot, whatever it might be, right? Or just commercial Walgreens, right? Don't care. I just need to be able to imagine in my brain, if I'm listening, what is the thing, right? So that that's kind of component number two. And then What's the hazard, right? What do we have going on firewise? What are our conditions? What is the smoke doing, right? So we I've got the box, right? And then what what's happening in the box, right? What is what am I seeing? What and kind of important to content is this is and this is again as we go back to size up arrival report differences, I try to emphasize the arrival report is what you actually see, right? There's a predictive aspect in size ups, right? Size ups should always be forward thinking, right? But with the arrival report, just gotta say what see, right? So with that in conditions, you're just describing what you're actually seeing from that right C. And then with that, right, this is where probably departments are gonna vary a lot in regard to the different phraseologies and all that kind of stuff, right? but then for us, it we're gonna go into fast attack, right? Where then within that content, this and this is kind of again how you can contextualize it to whatever works for your department. With fast attack, it's a very vague term, right? For us, it just generally means that you're pulling lines, right? So what I try to say with you guys is if there's anything tactically helpful that you can throw along with that, say it, right? I'm fast attack with a two and a half, right? If you hear me fast attack right off the rip on a single family, you're gonna assume inch and three quarter, right? So I'm not gonna say that. But if I'm pulling a two and a half, which for us does my department, we're not pulling it every day, right? Or Fast attack using a deck gun blitz attack, right? Boom. Right. Now BC coming in knows, okay, we've got, you know, enough BTUs where he's pulling a blitz attack, or we've got a, you know, with the two and a half water supply becoming more important, right? Or second do, right? It's just helping everyone know kind of where the framework of this attack is going and kind of along with that and how I like to end, and personally it might just be my personality. I like my like set. beginning with that working fire and I like my set ending. It really gives me that structure, which is gonna be my mode of operation. And and here is where you know I am biased in regard to I'm only gonna mention the mode if I'm offensive. Right. And that's that's actually an add-on. Currently that's not gonna be I'm actually part of my own department's OSs. I stole that from someone, but to me it's very helpful again because fast attack could go either way. Offensive is very clear and it's a tempo setting term, right? It is psychologically prepping firefighters for interior operations, and which I think is actually helpful, right? We can have escalatory language or de-escalatory, and and I try to lean toward escalatory, not getting people excited, but getting people mentally and physiologically prepared. So with that, and the last little thing on that is why I don't do defensive off the bat, right? I I just think as you could preach aggressive firefighting all day. When and you could preach, you know, there's it's not searched till we've searched it. The second you drop that D-word, defensive, everyone slows down. Everything slows down, right? It's just human nature. so I don't want to take that from the victim that when I do the Charlie Side walk around and I see actual survival short or searchable space, I don't want to take them away having called that a defensive, and now I gotta upgrade my comms, right, and change this up. Which also we just know that gets messy, right? We can definitely do it if we have to switch from offensive to defense, but I try to limit that as much as possible. And just I try to really tell people with content with that initial report, don't be calling things fully involved right off the bat. Don't be calling defensive fires except in the we all know the extreme, you know, where whatever you've got total collapse on arrival, whatever. But for the most part, prep yourself up for assuming there's something searchable somewhere in this structure until I prove otherwise. That's a great point. I mean, seriously, in and I like that, saving the defensive until you've got a full decision, a full size up before you do that. just because, you know, there there is so much talk about, you know, what is still viable or what is still searchable in a structure and you're really giving up if you go defensive right away. But I think you know, for me in your content part is is really the most important thing is is what are you getting out of content is that you are telling through a story really to the incoming companies, how are they supporting you in your initial decision making? And, you know, if I if I hear you're absolutely right, if I hear defensive mode, and especially if I was coming in on a ladder or a quint, I'd start looking for hydrants right away, maybe not relying on other water supplies, slowing down, looking for more defensive posturing for my ladder. and I was thinking less of getting inside when, you know, th we never really want to do that, you know, unless you absolutely have a loser that's just absolut you know, not no viability, nothing left. but I I I like that point quite a bit. but yeah, I I think that, you know, you can't get enough from that initial picture. I mean, yeah, you can say too much, which we'll talk about later, but understanding the fire behavior, understanding where the fire's at i is critical for those incoming companies who don't have eyes yet. You're the initial eyes, so yeah, the content's gotta include that. No, it's good stuff and it brings up, you know, all these different arguments about phrasing a and and verbiage and vocabulary on the fire ground and and you know, just make sure and you you make a point of this is that whatever you're using that it's standardized, right? And especially with that content. You know Get into semantics, for example, of is a garden terrace on an apartment you got on are you calling it a terrace level, lower level, you know, whatever it is. And and so you make a good point with the content part of language and information. And I think it's important that you have to communicate that throughout your department and your mutual aid partners. We all do do things differently in the regions of our country. It's how effective you are on the fire ground. If you're painting a great picture and it's clear and con I think you're achieving your goal. you know, there's different models out there that tell you how to do it. If you don't elect to do that model precisely, are you doing it wrong? I don't think so. I think it's whatever works for your agency. in fact, you know, when I was going through some of your article, you know, some of the command stuff, I know we de we definitely do things a little differently in our region of the country than what you do. But I'm not gonna criticize you and start saying, my god, that's totally wrong. No, it's just the way you make your your system work. and and we can get into that later, but you got anything else that we we would I love the declaring the the mode only offensive at first. I think that was a good takeaway. but you know, and then declaring the incident command. So that that's a little different from us, but I do like your perspective on it. you know, whether you're not going if you're going interior or whatever you're gonna do, you might declare that to your incoming companies. for us, you know, I th I think we leave it alone until the the command officer gets there, the battalion chief. But some parts of the country don't have com that that component. So you have to do it differently. Yeah, and that's where currently hot topic discussion in my department right now. you know, benefit of writing an article a year ago that gets published and now it's the now it's a hot topic. so but you know, with that said, I do think that's where a lot of that has come is we're just within our context, you might be on scene for I've been on scene for twenty plus minutes without a BC on scene. you know, so whether it's that that first arriving passing command or setting it up, right? And even that, I mean, even before this became a a controversy, there was a lot of difference within Other officers just with my apartment preference, right? Some of the guys out at the Indian Town Station, they were big on establishing a command right off the rip and and really trying to formalize it as possible. And then some guys like me in town, I'm like, my second dude can assume it when you know I'm running with this. You know, I'm going inside. So whatever works for a quick and fast interior attack and search is the answer. Whether you want to use certain verbiage or not. If you know you're the first two company officer, whether you're saying you're passing command keeping or whatever, and you're going in, I think that's the right answer. obviously when your your incident expands, then you do have to you someone has to have eyes on the outside that makes, you know, decisions. But you know, it's a it's just a matter of philosophy really. All right, let's get into flow while we're at it. So, you know, you you mentioned the content part of it, but unless you can convey that in a logical manner, it really doesn't mean anything, does it, right? So let's let's let you talk about your flow component. Yeah, yeah. So with flow again, and this is where there's a little bit of overlap 'cause you have all the components, right? I like the word you used earlier. actually I'm gonna scale both words. You used story earlier and now you just use logic, right? And that's w really what you're taking. You're taking the parts of the story and putting them within a logical sync sequence, right? and and as I said, right, the this is where I think there is much more benefit to describing the structure first prior to describing the conditions, right? If you arrive and say, I've got, you know, fire cell thinning out of the Alpha Bravo windows, you're like, okay, what are you on, right? Or you want a multifamily? Are you on a single family, right? And then you start describing the structure just intuitively, I think it is harder to picture that because now you're having to recall what those conditions are, which it's easier to picture the structure and then what's happening to it. but yeah so flow and this is where again we talk about There are so many different ways to do it, right? That doesn't mean that there's not some ways better than others, but you've got to figure out what works for you. you know, so working with different people, whether it's been training them, or just talking to other captains in my agency or from different agencies, everyone has these slight nuances or slight different preferences. That's fine, right? Are you conveying what you're trying to convey in a logical, efficient manner? That's the principle, right? A lot of different ways to apply that principle. so yeah, with with con or I'm sorry, flow, it's really just trying to take those different pieces, whatever the pieces, your department, your phrases, whatever they might be, it's structuring those into like a nice chain link, right? Where they're all lining up, they make sense, and they're able to be understood. again, somewhere in the article I do mention how one thing that's helpful to see if you're doing this as good as you think you are, is to do size ups or arrival reports where You're looking at a s you are the only one seeing the structure, and your crew is not seeing it. And you describe what you're seeing in an arrival report, right? So you've got a small window of time to communicate it, and then how well was that communicated? And then ask yourself, is this a problem with what I said? Right? Was it was I missing pieces? That would be a content problem. Or was it with how I said it, right? That I have all the pieces together, but they weren't connecting fluidly or logically to the point where. Other people are supposed or are able to comprehend because that's really the key with all of these arrival reports. Who cares what you think, right? You need other people to be able to understand what you're saying. That's the whole point of communication is getting what is here. You might have it perfectly understood in your mind, but getting that out to others to the point where they're able to comprehend and apply what you're saying. and then the other aspect, right? Because that kind of two things with flow. The the first is making that logical sequence. And then the second is delivering that, right? So you might have all the content. You might have even the sequence of that content, correct? But you might not be able to pull it off because you're, you know, sitting there, yeah, it's we got the fire is self-venting out of the alpha. Yeah, it it okay, right? And That that that will cross over a little bit with the tone problem as well, but that will, even if you sound cool and calm, you're just gonna be like, what is there, there is no, and this is kind of the more just general sense of the term, there's no flow. You got no groove, right? There is a smoothness to a good arrival report, any good communication that really eliminates those uhs, that eliminates the, you know, just that that disorienting failure to smoothly connect. I like that. there's there was I wanted to key on this too. You you talked about being smooth, about being and I stole the logical from you because I wrote it down, organizing with logically structured. but let's get into this. You said there's some avoidance words. So when I read that, I started immediately thinking of words that I would use that I would try to eliminate. Like, my god, why did I why did I say that? I I wa I had this bad habit of saying it at this time. I was like What other time is there? Is it the past? Is it the future? It's like why why would I waste air traffic by saying at this time you ever hear anybody say that, Jason? And be What the hell are you doing? I've got I've got audio clips of me saying it. Yeah. I was like, stop saying that. Again, all my mistakes are memorialized, Jim. No, but that's what's great about going back and listening to it and hearing it and saying, my God, what was that? But I do have I have pr I have some great stories too about size ups. You know, i having a your ambulance out of the same fire station and they bust ass in front of you out and I hated that because I always had one clown to give a size up that's horrible. I'd be like, Look, man, if I'm right behind you, don't ever do that again. Please don't let let me do it. It's it's what I'm getting paid for. You're just playing. But anyway, let's get back to the article, sorry, but Yeah, but y you you had some good suggestions too about practicing. You know, you can't just wake up and just automatically start doing this. You have to, you know, practice it and really get it down. does your organization have a standard template for a for a radar report? And do you practice it? Yeah, yeah, we have a standard template. I would say functionally there's a bit of deviation, right? And and reasonable deviation from it. right, hence a template. But yeah, it in that's very similar to what I have in the article, right? Where where it's got the content and the structure, you know, and then you can describe the conditions, right? we are actively updating our NIMS ICS OS right now. so there's been some fresh content and fresh discussion on these various parts. but yeah, there's been a set one that honestly, you know, probably could use some updating. It's been around for a long time, but at the same time, yeah, it's really that. That basic structure we've been describing is kind of our organization's template where you then just see a little bit of individual preference. You see, you know, some fine-tuning of yourself, right? It's funny, just briefly, as you were talking about the different words, right? Whether it's at this time, which I think everyone's an offender of that one, to different degrees. But you know, another thing that I I learned, some of this you you literally hardwire in your brain, right? Can you fix it? Yeah, but especially in your formative period. You know, there was a time when like we're talking about with practice. again, I got this from just my mentors. Every single structure you pulled up to, right? Give a size up on. I have a good imagination, so I can imagine a bunch of different, you know, fires at it, but you're just literally, you know, when you pull up to the gas station, all right, give a size up. When you pull up to Felix, give a size up. And I was when I was getting ready for testing and all that, I took that to heart. I still do it. especially like with the Airbnbs. I have that in the article too. Pull up, what a cool opportunity. To pull up, imagine something is on fire, and do your 360 and start thinking about, okay, what is this is what I think it looks like inside. What does it look like when I go inside? Right. So all these things are like huge components. but getting back to the the brief point I want to make, is there are times where I actually so I know I have a a little glitch in my size ups, right? So a lot of times I will say single family residential. Right? And that's actually slightly redundant, right? There's there's not If it's single family, it's a residential, right? But I learned my size ups every single time I said single family residential. It I tried to fix that and just get it to single family was not worth the mess up on flow, right? I sacrificed that, right? So, but to your point, as you've discussed several times, is listening to your comms, right? At least if you got a glitch, be self aware, right? Know what those things are and then figure out if, all right, is it worth it to deal with this? Or am I okay with keeping it, right? If someone's saying at this time, twenty times on a fire, can we get that down to maybe five? You know? Don't let being too perfect kill really good. Yeah, we used to keep those templates in the front, you know, in the front right seat. And I gotta tell you, I don't think I ever look down. I mean, let's be realistic. You pull up at three in the morning and there's actually fire blowing out, the last thing you wanna do is look down. I mean, you might, but you're not looking down. you know, textbook c is textbook, but it you know, it's like What is my what do they say in boxing? Once you get punched in the nose once, all your game once that pain hits you, all that game plan is out the window. But I'm not saying lose your your cal calm, cool composure in the front seat. I'm just saying that the game plan definitely changes. But all right, let's let's talk a little bit about tone. And I I love this one and you make a lot of good points about tone and this is where you gotta go back and you have to listen yourself. And you have to listen to your tone and say, Hey, look, this was real. This was not made up. I was not in the lab. This was me three I always say three in the morning, three in the morning pulling up. And how was I? but let's talk about your thoughts on tone. Yeah, yeah. So tone is fun. I I do think it is it it is the hardest to control. Right. and as you said, you know, there's y you can textbook this to death, but At the end of the day, you've gotta right. What we're after is that unconscious competence, right? And everything we do. And it and that's gotta be reflected across all levels. But with tone, man, it it's almost the it reveals if you're competent or not, right? Or at least confident in your competence, right? or at least that can be the big thing. Because there's the tone is multi-factor, right? That's what there's several different points I try to make with that. But I I do think, right, the biggest one that we're all just most aware of is whoa, that guy. Is either worked up or he is fe you can feel his emotions through the radio, and you're like, man, we got a problem here. right. So that is where you know that it's the classic phrase, right? Calm, cool, collected, is is just so critical. you know, as the bass line, right? So your tone, your you know, story that you're delivering out should sound as if you are in control, right? Control of yourself. Doesn't mean you have to have every little perfect thing figured out, but it's gonna degrade the scene. We all know. If if you're you're sounding scared, if you're sounding w you know, loud, I I would say what I I would say the biggest issue is excited. Right? That that excitement that we just know is the inability to restrain someone's nerves, right? Or at least it projects that way, which Man, fear is contagious, excitement is contagious, emotions are contagious. So why I think it is just so critical for the tone. If you pull it up and and you're hearing your first arriving or your BC or whoever it is, and they're excited, and you're that first-year proby going in, whew, man, that is not gonna give you the confidence that you need. and it's not gonna it it has the effects of Diminishing crew's confidence in you, obviously, right? So I think that a failure to work on that, it which is the hardest thing to work on. and I think in that point, I try to say the best thing to fix tone, there's two, it's one exposing yourself. You have to expose yourself to real situations which create pressure, right? Because though that pressure, you can do it in training, but only so much, right? Make the training as stressful and and real as possible, but at least I think. There is no way to simulate the the real emotions of a real job in real time, right? The bet that's where having all the knowledge is great. Getting the experience is where like I my tone should be better now as a a six year captain than it was as you know a one year captain, right? so but it's I I think I mentioned this word earlier, self-awareness is key on tone too. As you said, Jim, pulling out the comms. I mean Every single working fire or just like really unique incident with you know a lot of communications, pull it, right? Pull those comms and be critical on yourself, right? you know, do it with find mentors or you know co-workers who are willing to give you real feedback. Like, do you hear that inflection in your voice? Right? What is that? Right? and then trying to work on it from there. And that Some some people, I think some people have natural intuitions that are just it's easier for them to control or project their voice, right? where other people they probably need to put in more effort. You're like, yep, this juice is worth the squeeze. I'm going for a working on tone, no matter what it costs me. And I I I think that there are some people that if they could get tone under control, it would fundamentally change their reputation, right? Because they might be as smart as can be. They might be really good officers, but every day everyone is hearing them on the radio on relatively minor incidents, sounding worked up. which and this maybe the last point on on tone is just I do like a distinction because I think it's important, is there's a distinction between being worked up, right? Emotionally charged versus working. Right? you know, if if I'm first arriving and I'm doing my 360 and I'm trying to clear a gate. underly fire conditions and there's a dog starting to come on me in the backyard and I'm trying to give a three sixty update, it might I might sound like there's some stuff going on in those comms, right? And that's okay. It is perfectly okay to set to hear work in people's voice. But there's a massive difference. I think you just know it when you hear, yeah, man, who they got a worker versus man, that guy, he is he's worked up you know, right there. So I I have a great example of that. So Last month, Jason we had a fire last month. I know it's hard, Jason. Jason's in the north part of our county. This is fairly busy. I say fairly. I'm in the the western part that is less fire volume. But I'll just put it at that. But we had a fire, yeah, same thing. have you it's okay, Jim. You you go to a fire here and there. Thanks, pal. Thanks a lot. Thanks. A couple of times a year, I think, maybe, yeah. Thanks for striking my ego. but yeah, the we had an actor riding the seat, you know, first of all, so he's not used to it. And it came out in the mid afternoon, fire exterior fire, but it was on the deck and it completely blocked. It looked like a heavy fire volume from the exterior, smoke out in the residence, and of course there was two people bound to wheelchairs stuck in the house. And of course you're gonna say the word trapped because well they they can't get out. If you don't do something, they're gonna die. So, you know, of course when he pulled up he pulled a line and you know, gave his size up. It was excited, as it should be. But then I gotta tell ya, I mean it i and they struck a second alarm right away with the people trapped, and then immediately that gets me going. So I start going, I start listening, I'm like, man, what are we my BC gets there and he's the most calm and cool and people call me later, like, how he just calmed me down. He's like, Okay, hit the fire from the exterior, he sent crews inside, let's not get jacked up, let's just get these people out, let's make it and when you look at it from a perspective, it really wasn't a big deal, but it could have been. And it's just an example of tone. And what Justin did that day was phenomenal, just calmed everybody down. It was amazing how he just took over the scene, right? And I think, you know, when you when you look at tone, that's what it does. and the only other point I'm gonna make is that, you know, we have these new and this isn't really about size up, but I was I'll say it anyway. One of the biggest things I hate right now, and it's part of technology, are these computer aided dispatches. And I'll tell you why. I mean it it keeps everything consistent. But when I jumped on that rig and I knew a dispatcher's voice, I knew when they were excited or not, I knew if I had a fire or not. You know, and it's the same thing with somebody's size up. And you know, when they're when they start giving you and they're prof I'm not talking about not being professional, but when they start when they start getting into it, you're like, I I believe me, I'm not compla don't be complacent on any fire you go to, but when you start hearing it and you're like, yeah, this is a worker and I don't even have to be on the scene. That's that's what we miss. But that's that's what tone gives you. yeah, just the the the last thing too, with tone that I was thinking of as well as you were you were saying all that is right, 'cause excitement is the the easy one to focus on, it because it's probably the most prevalent. but there are other things that tone I do mention the article as well where particularly sounding like a jerk, right? You you can say the same words and man, you can actually slowly deteriorate trust. Just based on whether it's condescending tone, whether it's, you know, arrogant or or just snappy, right? Like, you know, that that's not helpful. Which is again, you always want to find like, okay, there's there's the error, but maybe there is an appropriate time for a more pronounced tone. Like negative engine 30 needs you to do this, right? Where you're kind of using that mom and dad voice, right? I'm not coming at you, but We all know when mom and dad are like, Okay, yep, I'm gonna listen to this one, right? Maybe there was a bunch of chatter going on. It was like, All right guys, I gotta cut through this noise. And that's where tone can be an asset, right? I think we emphasize correctly that calm, cool, collected is the way to go. That's our default setting. But every now and then I think you can flex tone to your advantage. But again, the the key is you're doing it intentionally and you're doing it for the right reason. I think something else you can add to that, and and it goes along kind of with Both flow and tone is pace. And someone who talks like this normally, who's very calm and composed, but they get in a situation to where they're still under control, but their pace is picking up. And they can signify urgency, problems, things like that. At least those are some things I've experienced. I remember, to at an apartment fire we had several years ago that that I was an IC at and my had a really squared away captain in the basement of this fire where we had a lot of problems and his his tone was and pace and flow has always been really good. And his tone and flow didn't change a whole lot, but his speed of his communication got quicker and quicker and quicker. And it was a really it was it was an indicator to me that something wasn't right. and so pa pace is also important and g and kinda goes along with what you're talking about. and and is just a nuanced thing to also pay attention to, maybe. One thing about the article I want to point out is that you know, why this is a great article is because it's a training article. And Chandler has included some pictures for training. Please get into this article and look at it. He's he's given you great examples to sit with your crews and look and have some Some good tabletop training to make it work. As we said, it doesn't replace the excitement, but it does set you on a logical pace. So take a look. couple of the things we want to conclude with with this article was what to include and what not to include. I'm gonna tell you right now the eight hundred megahertz has a neat little feature to it, and that is if you talk too long, it stops, it bonks out. And if you are at a point in your size up and all of a sudden it bonks you out, you might reconsider shortening your size up or your radio report. but what is that time now, Jason? Do you remember? I I wish I knew. But if you're talking too long and I think bonks you're you're on way too long. Yeah, I don't remember what it is. Is it forty five seconds or thirty seconds? Yeah, I d I don't remember. I wish I knew for you, but let's get you gave some great hints of what to include, what not to include, but I'm gonna let you talk about that. So yeah, Did mention with the example, right? That it's the kind of one of the the the fun things is right, how do you how do you find the the perfect balance of what you say about the structure, what you say about the conditions? And like like we're kind of talking about with the acronyms earlier and all that, like they're helpful for learning, but applying you better not be relying on them, right? It's gotta be that intuition, that informed intuition that's firing. So same thing with all these kind of things as we're dealing with the like what you include. To me, I I think one, know your own propensities, right? Are you an overtalker? Are you an undertalker? Right? Are you an over-describer or an under-describer, right? so I feel like in my experience, there there is a tendency, especially for people who are I'm training, this at least been my experience, they tend to over talk, right? They've been studying, they've been doing the scenarios where everything's in this perfect thing and they're trying to just hit every little point, but now they've got the real world pressure and they just Pro probably they actually swing one of two ways. They don't they don't say almost anything or they over talk, right? and with the over talking, it's probably gonna be, at least again, my experience, over describing the structure, right? Where it's just like, all right, dude, we don't need every detail. Like they're helpful, right? And I think that that part of that is that failure to distinguish between a size up and the arrival report. Because what they're trying to do is give every relevant factor for a size up. Rather than prioritizing what is the most relevant to describe and to deliver, right? Because you want it all for your mental size up. You cannot give it all for your arrival report. so it's just kind of finding those lines, you know. one of the common ones, again, it's it's a fresh discussion in our department as well. I mentioned in the article, the roof type, right? Do you describe the roof type or not, right? you know, for me. I tend not to unless I see relevance to it, right? I know some people don't like that. Some people like describe the roof all the time because it you know you might need to. I'm like, okay. right. And that's where there's just room to disagree. but it's really finding out what is your default structure, what is your department standards, and flexing your your structure around that. you know, and painting that I like and this is kind of the the interesting part, you know, I mentioned about in the article a lot, but I think it's true just in firefighting or or really life, is the balance between science and art. Right. You can you can break it all down, you can have all these these perfect descriptions. At the same time, like, is it a good picture? Right? Is it well delivered? And sometimes it's it's hard to even analyze why one size up works and another doesn't. You can, and you should ask those questions, but we all just know a good one when we hear it. Right? You hear the size up, you go, yep, I know what's going on. Because that's the point, right? So with the structure, when I want to include, right, I tend to include. right the the type, right? Am I dealing with a single family? Am I dealing with a multifamily? Am I dealing with a commercial? Right? I try to include general size, right? our our department leans toward square footage. That's our our general terminology. There are some, you know, and now we've got our app, we all know what square footage we're going to ninety nine percent of the time, before we arrival. We still wanna say it, but Where again just the funny things you hear people will do, they'll be like, I'm arrival to a three thousand two hundred and twenty-two square foot structure. Dude, just call it three thousand man. right. So even with this this technology, there's still nuance to think through it. you know, other than that, I like to do construction, right? I'm a dealing with wood frame, I'm dealing with CBS, you know, and then from there though, I don't like to spend that much time on I wanna give you the basics, the basic footprint of what I'm dealing with. And then I want to go to the conditions, right? and then with my conditions, what to include, what not to include, that probably is even more complex, right? Because just your conditions are are so variable. so what do you say, right? again, I like to emphasize the say what you see rather than what might be, you're thinking what might be. but with that, are you, you know, are you accurately painting that picture, right? are you Using phrases that your department understands, right? you'll hear me use self-venting a lot, right? And that hopefully people are understanding what that is, right? But you probably can drop some phrases that you maybe shouldn't, right? Where you're just you you read the one book that said that one phrase and now you're trying to sound cool. you know, but are you accurately finding the relevant factors, knowing, right, we don't want to just right. What's everyone's error always when at looking at something that's self-venting is focusing exclusively on the fire that's venting. Right. You could have thick turbulent smoke coming out the Charlie side. You could have smoke pushing out a gable vent, right? There could be so many other things that probably are just as important, but your eyes focus on the glow, right? so keeping that in mind with what you say, but again, I think I think there are probably more possible errors toward over description, right? Where you know you start describing the fire and then you start describing the smoke, and then you start describing the other smoke that's coming from the opposite side of the house, and then you describe the visibility, and then you describe it's like how much can you say, right? So to me, I I think that it really is practice in listening to, okay, I've it's really that feel. Hopefully you can feel the amount of time that you're spending, right? I think in the the article I do 11.5 seconds, right? And that's that's one way to do it, is time yourself. Right. And then are you, this is another thing you gotta ask yourself, are you Is your practice actually translating to the real world? Right? Cause so many people I'd sit down with them, they'll work on it, they'll do these size ups, we'll get a good, okay, yep, it's about a 10 second or a 12 second. Great, let's go do that. And then they drop a 25-second size up, whoa, dude, what happened in the office? Right. so it is again that that continuous self-awareness of recognizing, yep, I should include this, I shouldn't include this. And then what did I actually do? And then why did I do that and then reassessing? Great point. Chandler, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on and talk about this article. great learning article. as you know, Jason and I, this is a show about tactics and I can't stress enough that, you know, tactical implementation starts of the picture and from the picture you build and without a good picture that doesn't happen. And we've seen so many fires go bad just because of a bad picture that was initially, you know, put out there. But great article. if you wanna see more of Chandler Moore, there's also another great article, which I found in the October twenty twenty four fire engineering on Blitz Attack. So g go out there and read that too. He's got a lot of great ideas, a lot of great wisdom and thank you for writing for fire engineering. I'm gonna let Jason kinda take this home and l give you some some Last minute some words before we conclude this episode. Yeah, so Chandler, thanks so much. And for those of you that are looking for new training ideas, the way he wrote this article is literally a lesson plan. I mean y you can it's from the very beginning, how to go through it. it's really good. And it's in the August edition of twenty twenty six, starts on page forty seven, and I encourage you. there there's no other professional trade magazine like fire engineering because this is the kind of content it's not just opinion pieces, this is technical operational guides and and practices that you can take back to your department and use for training, for development, both organizationally and as an individual. So we're very happy to represent that and and what it does for the fire service and Chandler Is a big part of that with an incredible article. And Chandler, before we sign off, you're gonna be anywhere or if any of questions, how could somebody reach out and contact you? yeah. Anyone can contact me via email, probably the best way or Facebook, you can find me there. But email is two three seven and then just my name, Chandler C H A N D L E R More O O R E at Gmail dot com. anyone can email me, happy to respond. Okay. Thank you so much. And on behalf of Fire Engineering and FDIC, David Rhodes, Diane, and everybody that lets us and supports us in doing these shows, make sure that you get registered for FDIC. Of course, though those classes sell out very quickly. Get your housing when that opens up. And we look forward to seeing on the next show and keep training hard.