Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 6/19/26: Iran Deal on Brink of Collapse, Neocons Fuming at Trump, Hasan Piker Rally Banned

Transcript

6/19/26: Iran Deal on Brink of Collapse, Neocons Fuming at Trump, Hasan Piker Rally Banned · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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0:31
Speaker 3: Good morning everyone, It's Friday, June nineteenth. You're at Breaking
0:36
Speaker 3: Points and we have an amazing show as always, don't we, folks.
0:40
Speaker 2: Happy plan, Yeah, a lot of breaking developments right as
0:45
Speaker 2: we're coming on here this morning too.
0:47
Speaker 4: That's right.
0:48
Speaker 3: We've got Crystal, Emily Ryan and I'm so happy to
0:50
Speaker 3: be back.
0:51
Speaker 4: I was gone for two weeks. I was out east.
0:54
Speaker 3: Coaching a team to a championship fifty years in the making.
0:58
Speaker 3: Then I have and referring to the IRGC in Iran,
1:05
Speaker 3: well played.
1:08
Speaker 4: I've been It's nice to be stateside, but long time coming.
1:13
Speaker 5: So yeah, you were down a bit in the fourth quarter,
1:15
Speaker 5: but yeah you really pulled it out.
1:18
Speaker 4: Gotta watch out for those refs.
1:19
Speaker 3: But now we're here and we've got a lot of
1:22
Speaker 3: new war updates over the last twelve to twenty four hours.
1:26
Speaker 4: Ryan, where are we at in this moment?
1:30
Speaker 5: So yesterday the Israelis launched another offensive inside Lebanon and
1:37
Speaker 5: it was repelled rather ferociously. It looks like at least
1:43
Speaker 5: four Israeli soldiers were killed, many others wounded. It's it's
1:47
Speaker 5: unclear how many HESBLA fighters were killed, although it does
1:54
Speaker 5: according to the Lebanese Ministry of Health, it seems like
1:56
Speaker 5: at least twenty eight civilians were killed.
1:59
Speaker 6: Over the last twenty four hours.
2:01
Speaker 5: They started knocking down buildings, I believe in Nabatia there
2:04
Speaker 5: was a huge civilian residential complex taken down, as well
2:11
Speaker 5: as bombings of other nearby villages, and Israel was planning
2:19
Speaker 5: a massive retaliation for this, which to me is a
2:22
Speaker 5: kind of interesting way of conceptualizing your role.
2:26
Speaker 6: In the world.
2:26
Speaker 5: You know, this is an an occupying army who is
2:30
Speaker 5: in their neighboring country trying to push further in suffers
2:35
Speaker 5: casualties as a result of that, and then announces that
2:38
Speaker 5: it is the victim of a terrorist attack.
2:40
Speaker 6: They referring to the as blow as.
2:42
Speaker 5: Terrorists, and is then going to launch further attacks on
2:45
Speaker 5: civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon. Iran told the United States and
2:50
Speaker 5: Jeremy is reporting this for drop site later today that
2:54
Speaker 5: if Israel continues at pace with this behavior, they're going
2:57
Speaker 5: to start attacking Israel without warning.
3:00
Speaker 6: They're not going to do this hole, Okay, we're mad.
3:03
Speaker 5: We're going to launch a demonstrative strike to show that
3:07
Speaker 5: we are angry.
3:07
Speaker 6: They're just going to start hitting them. And so we had.
3:10
Speaker 5: A overnight or overnight here in the East coast during
3:15
Speaker 5: early morning throughout the day, series of negotiations between Hesbela Rum,
3:20
Speaker 5: the United States Israel broker by Cutter, and they announced
3:24
Speaker 5: a renewed ceasefire between Israel and Hezbola that was to
3:31
Speaker 5: take effect at four pm local time, which is as
3:34
Speaker 5: we're recording this, that would be a little bit more
3:36
Speaker 5: than an hour ago. So as we speak, they are
3:39
Speaker 5: in a renewed ceasefire. So by the time you guys
3:42
Speaker 5: are watching this, you can check to see whether or not,
3:46
Speaker 5: you know of hostilities have actually halted, but Israel is
3:51
Speaker 5: claiming that it does not require them to withdraw from
3:56
Speaker 5: the territory that they're occupying, and that it still allows
3:59
Speaker 5: them to what they call confront threats they and it's
4:03
Speaker 5: still also, according to Israel, allows them to continue destroying
4:06
Speaker 5: civilian infrastructure throughout southern Lebanon. They're trying to effectively make
4:12
Speaker 5: southern Lebanon uninhabitable so that when the hundreds of thousands
4:15
Speaker 5: of people who have been displaced return, and they are
4:18
Speaker 5: actually returning like now, like once the ceasefire was reached,
4:21
Speaker 5: they started coming back, trying to make it so that
4:23
Speaker 5: there are no homes to return to Andy. They claim
4:25
Speaker 5: that they can continue to do that under the terms
4:28
Speaker 5: of this ceasefire. I highly doubt that that has considers
4:33
Speaker 5: either of those provisions to be consistent with what they
4:35
Speaker 5: understand a ceasefire to be. So what Iran's reaction to
4:39
Speaker 5: that is going to be remains to be seen. They're
4:41
Speaker 5: supposed to have talks in Geneva right now, those aren't happening,
4:45
Speaker 5: and it appears that it's because of this. The US
4:48
Speaker 5: said it was logistical difficulties. I don't know, booking the room.
4:53
Speaker 5: I guess, you know, they thought they thought it was
4:56
Speaker 5: you know, Jared thought it was Wick Coff's you know,
4:59
Speaker 5: job to like book the room with Coffla. Chared was
5:02
Speaker 5: supposed to book the conference room.
5:05
Speaker 6: And there's like a.
5:06
Speaker 5: There's like a European dental conference there, and so they
5:08
Speaker 5: got it instead. So now there's I guess scouting for
5:12
Speaker 5: new locations. The Pakistanis were claiming that the Iranians couldn't
5:16
Speaker 5: make it for some religious reasons completely made up as well.
5:22
Speaker 2: What's kind of interesting, though, isn't it that rather than
5:24
Speaker 2: just saying this is a problem and we're not going forward,
5:27
Speaker 2: they're both trying to come up with some excuses and
5:30
Speaker 2: cover for.
5:30
Speaker 5: The sure they all still wants to go forward, right, Yeah,
5:34
Speaker 5: that's yeah, yeah, Well.
5:37
Speaker 2: I mean to state what is abundantly obvious. This just
5:40
Speaker 2: underscores how fragile and tenuous this entire situation is and
5:44
Speaker 2: how easily Israel could destroy the whole thing. And we're
5:48
Speaker 2: going to play some of the comments from jade Vance
5:51
Speaker 2: where he is quite critical of Israel. On the very
5:53
Speaker 2: same day, though, Trump gets asked, oh, if Iran attacked Israel,
5:56
Speaker 2: would you defend them, and he said, of course, So
5:59
Speaker 2: you know, we've got a lot of We've got tough
6:01
Speaker 2: rhetoric genuinely, you know in public from Trump and JD
6:05
Speaker 2: vance tough rhetoric VI the israelis is it going to
6:09
Speaker 2: be matched with actions of raining them in? Because otherwise
6:14
Speaker 2: this is never going to work, And that is exactly
6:16
Speaker 2: what Iran has been testing this whole time. That has
6:19
Speaker 2: been one of the big questions in their heads as well.
6:22
Speaker 2: Will the Trump administration actually do what it takes to
6:25
Speaker 2: restrain Israel because otherwise there's no possibility of a deal
6:29
Speaker 2: going forward. So needless to say, it is an ominous
6:32
Speaker 2: development that before they could even make it to the
6:36
Speaker 2: locale of the first day one of negotiations, the thing
6:41
Speaker 2: is already you know, falling apart.
6:44
Speaker 7: Yeah, suple things also, oh go ahead.
6:46
Speaker 5: I was just add one other thing that it doesn't
6:49
Speaker 5: get discussed much, but there are Iranian politics at play here.
6:53
Speaker 4: You know.
6:53
Speaker 5: We had a story yesterday over at drop site which
6:56
Speaker 5: I recommend people read from mos and Resisscide, who's reporting
7:00
Speaker 5: from Tehran about if you're just listening to this headline,
7:04
Speaker 5: internal debate rages in Tehran over deal with Trump. There
7:08
Speaker 5: is a huge faction inside of Iran who does not
7:11
Speaker 5: trust the United States thinks that this is a giant
7:16
Speaker 5: kind of round of theater that is just aimed at
7:21
Speaker 5: allowing the US and Israel to kind of restock and
7:24
Speaker 5: re arm, get some oil into the global economy, and
7:27
Speaker 5: then restart the war on them. And so that faction
7:32
Speaker 5: inside Iran is going to be looking for any opportunity
7:36
Speaker 5: that presents itself from the US Israeli side to say, see,
7:40
Speaker 5: we told you forget about this. We should we never
7:44
Speaker 5: should have agreed to this. This is always fake. What
7:46
Speaker 5: we need to do is inflict more pain on them.
7:49
Speaker 5: So that's that's in the background of of and shows
7:54
Speaker 5: I think why kind of a Ragchi and Gollibuff have
7:58
Speaker 5: to be a little bit delicate in how they They
8:01
Speaker 5: can't just show up in Geneva with these insults being
8:05
Speaker 5: carried out, you know, in front of them, Otherwise it
8:07
Speaker 5: empowers the others. And moch Taba kamen A put out
8:11
Speaker 5: this very interesting statement yesterday which is in that story
8:14
Speaker 5: saying that he doesn't agree with the ceasefire. The MoU
8:18
Speaker 5: he that he personally doesn't like it, but he has
8:21
Speaker 5: deep respect for his civilian leadership Posesskian Radsheet, Galliboff, and
8:28
Speaker 5: he's going to allow their judgment to override his. And
8:33
Speaker 5: then he says they have complete responsibility for this, So
8:37
Speaker 5: he's he's holding on to that's their vance. Yes, like wait,
8:43
Speaker 5: he saw Trump do that, and he's like, oh, you
8:44
Speaker 5: can do that. He's like, okay, I'm doing that.
8:47
Speaker 6: If this works, some good with it. If not on
8:49
Speaker 6: these three guys.
8:51
Speaker 8: Meanwhile, doesn't doesn't have a JD vance and he's getting
8:56
Speaker 8: You're seeing the the rascheting up of the rhetoric from
8:59
Speaker 8: the Bengal yeers and the like, Asraeli elections coming up
9:02
Speaker 8: as well, and just to Crystal's point, that's kind of
9:05
Speaker 8: a question for everybody.
9:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, looking at the Gaza ceasefire deal, I.
9:10
Speaker 8: Have a sort of soft theory that I think it's
9:14
Speaker 8: probably not going to sound ridiculous, but it's basically that
9:17
Speaker 8: Trump likes to do these almost like ribbon cutting style
9:21
Speaker 8: signing ceremonies and he'll say he's he ended eight wars,
9:25
Speaker 8: he was trying to get the Nobel Peace Prize, and
9:28
Speaker 8: then he understands media enough to understand that something goes
9:31
Speaker 8: to the back burner and it's burned into the public's
9:34
Speaker 8: mind as a ceasefire deal, it's burned into the public's
9:38
Speaker 8: mind as the end of a conflict, and then he's
9:42
Speaker 8: really angling for the public relations element of the war
9:45
Speaker 8: being over in him being the person to bring us
9:48
Speaker 8: even though he was also the personal start of the war,
9:49
Speaker 8: but him being the person to have ended it. And
9:51
Speaker 8: so it is interesting to compare it with what happened
9:56
Speaker 8: in Gaza, because that has essentially been meaningless after the
10:01
Speaker 8: first like what five days, maybe.
10:03
Speaker 7: Not even five days.
10:04
Speaker 8: So it's a question because I haven't followed that as
10:07
Speaker 8: closely as you guys have, but it seems entirely plausible
10:09
Speaker 8: to me. It'll be harder to do with Ron, but
10:12
Speaker 8: it seems entirely plausible to me that what he thinks
10:15
Speaker 8: he can do is set this on the back burner essentially.
10:19
Speaker 3: Well, perhaps we can find some answers with our friend
10:22
Speaker 3: jd Vance, who has been on a book tour for
10:24
Speaker 3: his new book Communion, but also some harsh language for
10:28
Speaker 3: the Israelis. Let's start with this clip right here, And
10:31
Speaker 3: this does bother.
10:32
Speaker 9: Me is that you've seen people within BB's cabinet who
10:35
Speaker 9: have come out and attacked the deal and in some
10:38
Speaker 9: ways very personally attack the President of the United States.
10:42
Speaker 4: And I guess my message to them would be twofold
10:44
Speaker 4: number one.
10:45
Speaker 9: Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in
10:49
Speaker 9: the entire world who is sympathetic to the nation of
10:53
Speaker 9: Israel at this moment in time, and he happens to
10:56
Speaker 9: be the head.
10:56
Speaker 6: Of state of the world's superpower.
10:59
Speaker 9: If I was in the cab cabinet of the Israeli government,
11:01
Speaker 9: I might not be attacking the only powerful ally that
11:05
Speaker 9: I have.
11:06
Speaker 4: Anywhere left in the entire world. And the second message
11:09
Speaker 4: I would give to some of those cabinet members.
11:11
Speaker 9: Phbe, to his credit, has not gone down this path,
11:14
Speaker 9: but to some of these cabinet members in Israel who
11:16
Speaker 9: are attacking the President of the United States. The other
11:18
Speaker 9: thing that I would say is that over the last
11:20
Speaker 9: three months, two thirds of the defensive weapons that have
11:24
Speaker 9: protected your homeland have been built by American hands and
11:29
Speaker 9: paid for by American tax dollars. The problem for Israel
11:33
Speaker 9: is not Donald J. Trump, and anybody in Israel who
11:37
Speaker 9: thinks their biggest problem is the President of the United
11:39
Speaker 9: States needs to wake up and smell the reality of
11:43
Speaker 9: the situation that country is in Emily.
11:46
Speaker 4: What do you make of that? Are are are they
11:48
Speaker 4: going to wake up and smell the reality?
11:51
Speaker 8: Well, it's been framed as the Tucker carlossification of jd
11:55
Speaker 8: Vance in the last twenty four hours, which is really amusing,
11:57
Speaker 8: by the way, because Jdvance has foreign policy opinions like
12:01
Speaker 8: this basically since after he came back from the war,
12:05
Speaker 8: he started shifting on these types of things, and it's
12:08
Speaker 8: been known to everybody.
12:09
Speaker 7: This is why jd Vance and Tucker Carlson got along.
12:12
Speaker 8: So that is just a particularly i think, cynical and
12:15
Speaker 8: weird way to the little jd Vance who's expressing what
12:20
Speaker 8: a lot of younger conservatives definitely believe it is going
12:23
Speaker 8: to be the position of the Republican Party in ten,
12:26
Speaker 8: let alone, like twenty years, as younger people start to
12:30
Speaker 8: take over more and more control in the party.
12:32
Speaker 7: So just to watch the backlash to that, like we
12:36
Speaker 7: are in what.
12:37
Speaker 8: Months, I don't even know, June, We're in June right now,
12:40
Speaker 8: and he's talking like this now, that is mild.
12:44
Speaker 7: That is mild.
12:46
Speaker 8: And to see the Mark Levin freak out has been,
12:50
Speaker 8: I guess, amusing, but it's also really annoying because they
12:53
Speaker 8: have no idea what they're talking about, and they're being
12:56
Speaker 8: so cynical, and they're so obsessed with their own pet projects.
13:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it is head spinning to see the
13:06
Speaker 2: It is head spinning to see the immediate one to
13:08
Speaker 2: eighty shift in rhetoric from Trump. You know, jd Vance
13:12
Speaker 2: has just kind of kept quiet throughout the Iran war.
13:14
Speaker 2: Let Mark or Rubio take the lead, you know, in
13:17
Speaker 2: much more comfortable selling the war and much more comfortable
13:20
Speaker 2: ideologically with it. But you know, Jadie Vance told Trump, Okay,
13:23
Speaker 2: I've got my issues with it, but I'm going to
13:24
Speaker 2: support you, and he has done that. So it is
13:26
Speaker 2: hend spinning to see the abrupt shift, especially given that
13:30
Speaker 2: this is the administration that has you know, criminalized even
13:33
Speaker 2: to a greater extent than the Biden administration did pro
13:36
Speaker 2: Palestine protest and has had a complete crackdown on, you know,
13:41
Speaker 2: anyone expressing very similar sentiments to what the Vice Press
13:45
Speaker 2: of the United States is now expressing. So I have
13:47
Speaker 2: to put that out there. The other thing, in Ryan,
13:48
Speaker 2: I'm curious for your take on this. That's interesting is
13:51
Speaker 2: he's actually lying because there has been a total fore
13:54
Speaker 2: we're going to have an Israeli journalists on actually shortly
13:56
Speaker 2: who can give us some more insights into the political
13:58
Speaker 2: dynamics within Israel. Well, there has been a total meltdown,
14:01
Speaker 2: there is no doubt about it. There are a lot
14:03
Speaker 2: of strong things being said about Donald Trump the public,
14:06
Speaker 2: Israeli public who loved him five seconds ago, has now
14:10
Speaker 2: turned on him as approval rating has fallen off a cliff.
14:12
Speaker 2: But actually, no one in Netanyah whose cabinet, to my knowledge,
14:15
Speaker 2: has said anything personally detracting Donald Trump. To me and Ryan,
14:20
Speaker 2: it seems like Jadie Vance is trying to give Trump
14:24
Speaker 2: that impression that there are personal insults coming at him
14:27
Speaker 2: from the net Yahoo government to try to stiffen his
14:29
Speaker 2: resolve to have a hard religne with them.
14:31
Speaker 10: I don't know what you think.
14:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, even even Ben Gavie and I can put up
14:36
Speaker 5: his post that Emily was referencing.
14:40
Speaker 6: Is doing the like.
14:42
Speaker 5: So this is this is one of his more genocidal remarks.
14:45
Speaker 5: For every tear of an Israeli mother on thy eleven,
14:47
Speaker 5: these mothers must weep all of leban and must burn.
14:50
Speaker 5: And then he says, with all due respect to the Americans,
14:54
Speaker 5: Israel must make it clear to the entire world that
14:56
Speaker 5: the blood of our sons and the security of our
14:58
Speaker 5: citizens are not forfeit. All of Lebanon must burn. And
15:03
Speaker 5: then you know, to obliterate, to crush the term. And
15:05
Speaker 5: then Arachi says, this is not a rant by a
15:08
Speaker 5: random lunatic, it's a public post by the national security
15:10
Speaker 5: minister of the Israeli regime. The genocidal death cult headquartered
15:14
Speaker 5: in Tel Aviv is a threat to all of humanity.
15:18
Speaker 6: So even in his.
15:20
Speaker 5: Genocidal death cult phase, he's fank vera sing with all
15:24
Speaker 5: due respect to the Americans, And yes, you're exactly right
15:28
Speaker 5: that they're trying to like kind of put it on vance.
15:30
Speaker 5: They call it the vance mou'. It's the same thing
15:35
Speaker 5: that a lot of Republicans have done throughout the last
15:39
Speaker 5: decade when they've been upset with Trump. They'll say, it's
15:42
Speaker 5: his advisors, you know that, And it's an ancient thing.
15:45
Speaker 5: The king is never wrong. He just it's his advisors.
15:50
Speaker 5: From my watching and curious, how Christoph, you're seeing the
15:52
Speaker 5: same thing. It's it's kind of on the one hand,
15:55
Speaker 5: it's like always delightful to see this kind of thing unfold.
15:58
Speaker 5: At the same time, I feel like I'm watching in
16:01
Speaker 5: real time the Republican Party that was anti war in
16:05
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four won election, launched a bunch of wars,
16:10
Speaker 5: reclaiming the anti war mantle again. And it's like, I
16:16
Speaker 5: don't want them to stop their anti war rhetoric. I
16:18
Speaker 5: don't want them to stop with this restraint. I want
16:22
Speaker 5: the JD events wing to like prevail in their intramural contest.
16:28
Speaker 5: But also I'm like, you guys already did this whole thing. Yeah,
16:34
Speaker 5: and then as soon as you were elected, you launched
16:37
Speaker 5: a war of choice against Iran and have not really
16:42
Speaker 5: restrained Israel and Gaza or much in Lebanon.
16:45
Speaker 6: I hope you do. Hope they do.
16:47
Speaker 5: I'd like to see it, you know, escalate, see their
16:50
Speaker 5: rhetoric escalate to actually stop this. But it's like it's
16:53
Speaker 5: a little frustrating. It's like, really, we're going to do
16:55
Speaker 5: this again. At some point you lose some credibility on
17:00
Speaker 5: on your ability.
17:00
Speaker 10: To your whole anti war.
17:02
Speaker 6: At the same testuring just music to my ears. So
17:06
Speaker 6: you know, I'm a soccer for it.
17:08
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just skeptical of like I think we
17:11
Speaker 2: all should have a lot of skepticism that this is
17:13
Speaker 2: all going to go off with on hitch that we're
17:15
Speaker 2: going to get through sixty days of flawless negotiations, that
17:18
Speaker 2: some new redlines aren't going to be inserted, because I mean,
17:21
Speaker 2: how many times are we going to be lucy with
17:23
Speaker 2: the football with this idea that Trump is going to
17:26
Speaker 2: be anti war and he's going to stick to literally
17:29
Speaker 2: any principle that he has ever articulated. So yeah, of
17:33
Speaker 2: course I share that skepticism, and I also share like
17:36
Speaker 2: a little bit of I'm enjoying the Shapiro the Live
17:39
Speaker 2: in tears. I'm consuming that as much as anyone. I'm
17:43
Speaker 2: certainly I loved what you guys did putting the sad
17:45
Speaker 2: music with the with the tiers the other day. But
17:48
Speaker 2: I also in the back of my head are like, yeah,
17:50
Speaker 2: but day, at the end of the day, I'm probably
17:51
Speaker 2: going to win, Like they're probably going to get the
17:53
Speaker 2: last laugh and before this administration is very likely.
17:56
Speaker 8: Yeah, I agree, And before the guest jumpson, I just
17:58
Speaker 8: want to say, like, that's actually it's so insane about
18:01
Speaker 8: the people who rallied around Trump for the last four
18:03
Speaker 8: months is that they were saying trust the president, trust
18:06
Speaker 8: the president, the president knows best and they were the
18:10
Speaker 8: ones who anytime you're projecting an ideological idea on a
18:15
Speaker 8: Donald Trump, you're gonna end up with egg on your
18:17
Speaker 8: face every single time, because the man is not ideological.
18:21
Speaker 7: His view is pragmatic.
18:22
Speaker 8: Now we can disagree on whether it's actually pragmatic, but
18:24
Speaker 8: it's what he believes is pragmatic.
18:26
Speaker 7: At any given moments.
18:27
Speaker 8: Like first term he was going to do a deal
18:29
Speaker 8: with Nancy Pelissi on DAKA, you always end up with
18:31
Speaker 8: egg on your face. So for the last four months,
18:33
Speaker 8: for the people who've been agitating for a war with
18:35
Speaker 8: Iran literally for decades, to bear hug Donald Trump so
18:40
Speaker 8: flamboyantly and then to turn around, they were saying, don't
18:44
Speaker 8: criticize Trump, you're ruining the coalition.
18:46
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, hilarious.
18:49
Speaker 8: Second of all, it's so funny because they were the
18:52
Speaker 8: ones that made the mistake of acting like it wasn't
18:54
Speaker 8: just that Trump had pragmatically sided with them, but he
18:57
Speaker 8: had given them a decisive ideological victory. And now they're
19:01
Speaker 8: left holding the bag with egg on their faces and
19:03
Speaker 8: trying to pin it very desperately on JD.
19:05
Speaker 4: Vance.
19:06
Speaker 8: So it's it's just any time you're trying to project
19:08
Speaker 8: an ideological, ideological victory. If you're seeing it the mere
19:11
Speaker 8: image of your ideology and Donald Trump, it will change
19:14
Speaker 8: and not learning that less than ten years in is
19:17
Speaker 8: just unbelievable.
19:18
Speaker 4: And the reason why JD.
19:20
Speaker 3: Vance is allowed to pick up the anti war football
19:23
Speaker 3: and make these statements in a sense, or why it's
19:25
Speaker 3: still wide open for him, is because on the other side,
19:28
Speaker 3: the Democratic leadership has completely abdicated.
19:31
Speaker 4: Any kind of ground here.
19:34
Speaker 3: I mean, their concerns are process concerns at the head
19:37
Speaker 3: of Democratic leadership that they just didn't do this the
19:40
Speaker 3: right way. But they were very happy to have this war,
19:43
Speaker 3: and you know, with Joe Biden over the last two
19:46
Speaker 3: years of his presidency gave them everything they.
19:49
Speaker 4: Wanted short of this war.
19:51
Speaker 3: And now the Israelis are kind of like a dog
19:53
Speaker 3: that has caught the car and don't know what to
19:55
Speaker 3: do about it with Trump.
19:57
Speaker 4: So that is also why JD.
19:59
Speaker 3: Vance is allowed to make statements that you could never
20:01
Speaker 3: see Chuck Schumer or any other part of the Democratic
20:04
Speaker 3: leadership say on these issues. So until yeah, they start
20:08
Speaker 3: saying that stuff, the lane is wide open for JD.
20:11
Speaker 3: Vance to be the anti war candidate in twenty twenty eight,
20:15
Speaker 3: and I think that'll be.
20:16
Speaker 2: Reckoning is yeah, Yeah, that reckoning is definitely unfolding in
20:19
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party as we speak though.
20:21
Speaker 5: Right now.
20:22
Speaker 2: I saw the establishment Democrats notched another loss up in
20:25
Speaker 2: Maine now that they've done their rank choice tallying in
20:28
Speaker 2: one of the congressional districts there, and you see the
20:30
Speaker 2: ascent of the Grand Platiners the Abdullah side, and a
20:33
Speaker 2: new poll came out that shows him leading their chosen candidate,
20:36
Speaker 2: Haley Stevens, and Mallard mcmahr really falling off a cliff
20:39
Speaker 2: after she attacked Hassan and positioned herself on that side
20:43
Speaker 2: of the party.
20:43
Speaker 10: So that is definitely unfolding right now as we speak.
20:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
20:47
Speaker 3: Mcmarros at like zero percent with people under forty four,
20:50
Speaker 3: that's like not a cliff, That is a a I
20:53
Speaker 3: don't know, some sort of chasm that that she's at
20:56
Speaker 3: the bottom of. But incredibly Ryan, we do have a
20:59
Speaker 3: guest that we're going to let in right now. Why
21:02
Speaker 3: don't you introduce our guests for us?
21:07
Speaker 5: All right, so to get a little bit more of
21:09
Speaker 5: the perspective from the Israeli political and media class, were
21:13
Speaker 5: joined out by Noga Tonpalsky joining us from Jerusalem.
21:17
Speaker 6: Thanks Noga for being here, My pleasure.
21:21
Speaker 5: All right, So we earlier we played a clip of
21:24
Speaker 5: Jade Vance saying, look, President Donald Trump is the last
21:28
Speaker 5: world leader who has any affection whatsoever for Israel. So
21:32
Speaker 5: I would suggest to the Israeli you cabinet and Naw's
21:36
Speaker 5: ministers that maybe they don't trash the last guy who
21:39
Speaker 5: likes them. He had even more pointed remarks if you
21:43
Speaker 5: can believe that, on the Ross do that podcast with
21:48
Speaker 5: the New York Times. I want to play this and
21:50
Speaker 5: get your reaction to how the kind of Israeli classes,
21:54
Speaker 5: political classes responding to this.
21:56
Speaker 6: Here's but Jadvan, You've seen people in their system, Ben
21:58
Speaker 6: Gavier and Smoke Fridge who've attacked the deal, and I
22:01
Speaker 6: guess my response to them would be, what is your
22:04
Speaker 6: exact proposal?
22:06
Speaker 4: And you know your You're a country of nine million people.
22:10
Speaker 9: You can't just kill your way out of solving every
22:13
Speaker 9: single national security problem that you have.
22:16
Speaker 5: Pretty sharp in direct comments, sorry to sound like me
22:21
Speaker 5: almost so, no, like, what has the what has the
22:26
Speaker 5: response been among the government and also the media class there?
22:33
Speaker 11: Well, it's a complicated question, actually, and I think that
22:36
Speaker 11: jd Vance's comments are more sophisticated than they may appear
22:40
Speaker 11: at first glance. He's using every possible tool to provoke
22:46
Speaker 11: and to put down. You know, these really outrageous figures
22:52
Speaker 11: that Prime Minister Natanya who appointed to top ministries in
22:56
Speaker 11: a desperate effort to shore up his hold on power.
23:00
Speaker 11: In case you think I'm exaggerating, Ben Vier, the guy
23:04
Speaker 11: we're talking about now, and Betzali Smotrich, the Finance minister
23:09
Speaker 11: no less, and a few others were defined by the
23:12
Speaker 11: former head of the Mosad, Tamir Pardo as quote like
23:17
Speaker 11: the KKK. So we have to keep that in mind.
23:22
Speaker 11: And what jade Evan's doing is doing by even putting down,
23:26
Speaker 11: you know, the real number of the Israeli populations that
23:28
Speaker 11: you can't just murder. Everyone is telling these KKK guys basically,
23:33
Speaker 11: your time's up. You can't just keep saying whatever you
23:36
Speaker 11: want as they have for the last almost three and
23:39
Speaker 11: a half years. While Joe Biden was president, this didn't
23:42
Speaker 11: seem to bother the Republican Party very much, but now
23:46
Speaker 11: that it's Donald Trump who's getting under the skin of
23:48
Speaker 11: the extremists, they don't like it very much. Back in DC,
23:53
Speaker 11: and what we're hearing, I think is that the Israeli
23:56
Speaker 11: political class, it won't surprise anyone to hear, has basically
24:00
Speaker 11: been mute. They have nothing to say in response. And
24:04
Speaker 11: when I say they, I'm really saying he, the Prime
24:07
Speaker 11: Minister of Israel, in this crucial and critical time, hasn't
24:12
Speaker 11: shown his face in public in days, hasn't even put out,
24:16
Speaker 11: you know, one of his favorite pre tape videos. I
24:20
Speaker 11: think he doesn't know what to do. And the Israeli
24:23
Speaker 11: media class, I have to say, across the board, from
24:27
Speaker 11: Nittaielle fans who are in absolute apopleptic and sort of
24:32
Speaker 11: profane shock right now, all the way across the board
24:36
Speaker 11: to Nitthanielle's opposition, they also seem in shock. It appears
24:41
Speaker 11: that everybody in Israel in power bought nitaniel Who's line
24:46
Speaker 11: that he was, you know, Donald Trump's bestie somehow, his
24:50
Speaker 11: unique bestie, Donald Trump, you know, was going to be
24:54
Speaker 11: the one to treat Benjaminsanieu differently somehow. And I think
24:59
Speaker 11: what we're seeing is a real moment of almost numb shock.
25:02
Speaker 11: And among the Israeli population there really is a lot
25:06
Speaker 11: of fear and confusion. I think most Israelis are not
25:09
Speaker 11: particularly knowledgeable about the States. They're not particularly knowledgeable about
25:14
Speaker 11: the English language. They hear this stuff. I think they
25:18
Speaker 11: feel frightened by the security situation, very confused by the
25:22
Speaker 11: diplomatic kerfuffle.
25:25
Speaker 2: No that I'm curious for you to help us understand
25:27
Speaker 2: where the largest political fishers lie in Israel, because you know,
25:32
Speaker 2: we have talked a lot on our show about Ben
25:35
Speaker 2: Gavere and Smotrich. We put up his, you know, insanely
25:37
Speaker 2: genocidal comments about how for every Israeli soldier who was killed,
25:41
Speaker 2: one thousand Lebanese mothers should weep and all of this,
25:44
Speaker 2: and how Lebanon should burn. But I'm curious how much
25:47
Speaker 2: their ideas have purchased throughout society, because, for example, in
25:52
Speaker 2: a poll that was published by Haaretz, they found that
25:54
Speaker 2: eighty two percent of Jewish Israeli support the forcible expulsion
25:58
Speaker 2: of Palestinians from Gaza. Six percent actually support expelling Palestinian
26:02
Speaker 2: citizens from within Israel. I know there have been protests
26:06
Speaker 2: against net NYAHUO in Israel, but they tend more to
26:08
Speaker 2: focus around tactics versus the brutality or the morality of
26:13
Speaker 2: what is being done to Palestinians and or on net
26:16
Speaker 2: Nahu's own corruption. So where do you see the most
26:20
Speaker 2: significant political fishers lying right now between the net Nyahoo
26:25
Speaker 2: government and you know, a public that you described as
26:28
Speaker 2: sort of scared and confused.
26:31
Speaker 11: Well, fos, First of all, those are pretty shocking figures
26:34
Speaker 11: that you just quoted, and in order to be able
26:36
Speaker 11: to respond to them, I'd have to know a little
26:38
Speaker 11: bit more about which poll you're quoting, because Hawraz has
26:42
Speaker 11: published all manner of different polls put out by different
26:45
Speaker 11: put in the field, by different institutions with different tensions,
26:48
Speaker 11: and I'm just not sure what I'm just referring to there.
26:52
Speaker 2: I've got one people here for you from Penn State.
26:56
Speaker 2: It's from Penn State University, this particular one. And understanding
27:00
Speaker 2: that you you know, haven't had I didn't send this
27:01
Speaker 2: to you an advanced to have a chance to take
27:03
Speaker 2: a look at it.
27:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also this poll right here from N twelve
27:06
Speaker 3: News is a Paul on Trump after the MoU with Iran.
27:08
Speaker 3: Seventy one percent of Israelis do not trust Trump to
27:11
Speaker 3: preserve Israel's interest in a final deal with Iran. Just
27:13
Speaker 3: thirteen percent still believe in Trump, so where's that distinction
27:19
Speaker 3: for you?
27:22
Speaker 11: Well, I have a lot to say, but first of all,
27:24
Speaker 11: I want to address Crystal's questions about the Fishers in
27:27
Speaker 11: the Israeli polity just as a general question, without addressing
27:31
Speaker 11: the Poles specifically. That's okay, and then I'll come back
27:33
Speaker 11: to the polls. Israeli society right now is really falling apart,
27:40
Speaker 11: and so it's very hard for me to respond in
27:43
Speaker 11: any kind of scientific precision to what the Fishers are
27:47
Speaker 11: because what you're seeing in Israel is a country that
27:51
Speaker 11: was a fairly confident, very prosperous, fairly successful small country,
27:58
Speaker 11: and a difficult neighborhood that had really prospered over the
28:02
Speaker 11: last ten or so years leading up to October seventh,
28:07
Speaker 11: and that social fabric has simply collapsed in a way
28:13
Speaker 11: that I think has happened much faster than most people
28:15
Speaker 11: could imagine possible, and has had so many shocking aspects
28:20
Speaker 11: that it really is difficult to dress. But the first
28:22
Speaker 11: thing that happened before the war is that on January fourth,
28:26
Speaker 11: twenty twenty three, Prime Minister Natagna, who announced a coup
28:30
Speaker 11: de ta flat out Latin America style, his Justice Minister
28:37
Speaker 11: announced a live press conference, which wasn't a press conference,
28:40
Speaker 11: and simply said I'm announcing the first phase of a
28:44
Speaker 11: reform in the administration of the state. And really it
28:49
Speaker 11: didn't remind me of anything more than some Argentinian colonel
28:52
Speaker 11: in the nineteen eighties. And that simply tore open Israeli society.
28:59
Speaker 11: When you talk about the protests, the massive protests, hundreds
29:01
Speaker 11: of thousands of people on the streets in a country
29:04
Speaker 11: of ten million. That was during that period in which
29:09
Speaker 11: nataie who simply made explicit his efforts to really take
29:14
Speaker 11: control of all of the levers of power in the state.
29:17
Speaker 11: And since then, for Nitaniello, things have just gone downhill
29:21
Speaker 11: in the sense that you know, October seventh was a
29:26
Speaker 11: repudiation of what was even called the Nitaieou doctrine. Right,
29:30
Speaker 11: his theory of how to keep how to stave off
29:34
Speaker 11: any grappling with the Palestinian issue. Everything blew up in
29:38
Speaker 11: Israeli's faces, and what you have now is simply a
29:42
Speaker 11: fractured society in which a coup de't ta launched by
29:47
Speaker 11: the government has been I would say somewhere over fifty
29:50
Speaker 11: percent successful. The former Chief Justice of Israel, Iron Barak,
29:56
Speaker 11: he says that Israel can no longer be considered a demandocracy,
30:00
Speaker 11: that there is now one man rule in Israel, and
30:04
Speaker 11: Israelis are not adapting happily to one man rule, and
30:08
Speaker 11: they're not adapting happily to forever wars. And the polling
30:12
Speaker 11: to go back to that has been I would say,
30:15
Speaker 11: particularly unreliable and I don't know, you know, infelicitous, however
30:21
Speaker 11: we want to put it, because first of all, I
30:23
Speaker 11: have no idea about any Penn State poll I don't
30:25
Speaker 11: know who they have working for them. In Israel. By
30:29
Speaker 11: and large, the quality of polling in Israel, of public
30:32
Speaker 11: polling is very, very low, And the only way to
30:35
Speaker 11: really know what's happening, I think, with any clarity is
30:38
Speaker 11: to see trends. Like if you look at polling over
30:40
Speaker 11: period of two years public polling, you can see where
30:43
Speaker 11: the trends are going. The polling on this war, both
30:48
Speaker 11: if you think of this war as the two year
30:50
Speaker 11: eight month war since October seventh, or if this latest
30:54
Speaker 11: bit of war since the twenty eighth of February is
30:59
Speaker 11: particularly fraud because Israelis were asked in a way something
31:04
Speaker 11: that I consider trick questions. By and large, for example,
31:08
Speaker 11: they were asked in most polls, do you support fighting
31:13
Speaker 11: to keep the northern border safe? And then that was
31:16
Speaker 11: translated in much of the media, including much of the
31:19
Speaker 11: foreign media, as you know, ninety eight percent of Israeli
31:22
Speaker 11: support war. It's not actually true because when you asked Israelis,
31:26
Speaker 11: as other more internal polls, did how do you feel
31:30
Speaker 11: about Israeli strategy and the war in Lebanon? Those numbers
31:34
Speaker 11: were not even half. And so what you actually see
31:38
Speaker 11: when you try and go in depth in Israel is
31:39
Speaker 11: a very confused population. When you talk to people here,
31:43
Speaker 11: when you talk to people in the north, whoever's still
31:47
Speaker 11: left there, what you get is rage and confusion. And
31:51
Speaker 11: I want to just underscore what I just said. One
31:53
Speaker 11: of the reasons that these polling is to a great
31:56
Speaker 11: extent crap. When residents of the Israeli North are being polled,
32:01
Speaker 11: at least half of them are no longer residents of
32:03
Speaker 11: the Israeli North. The most important the largest Israeli city
32:08
Speaker 11: on the very northern border, Kiryachimona City. I don't want
32:11
Speaker 11: to say and make a mistake, but I think it
32:13
Speaker 11: was a city of about twenty thousand people before the war.
32:16
Speaker 11: Has less than half of its population right now. And
32:20
Speaker 11: the reason you're not hearing about it in the media
32:22
Speaker 11: is a successful effort by the Israeli government to basically
32:26
Speaker 11: cover it up, cover their failure not to provide security
32:30
Speaker 11: for the northern border up. So they allowed no formal evacuations,
32:34
Speaker 11: no compensation, and basically it's a situation in which anyone
32:39
Speaker 11: wealthy enough or with enough family has escaped the north.
32:43
Speaker 11: It's unlivable there. They're drones hitting every day. Their images
32:48
Speaker 11: of kids of those families who don't have word to flee,
32:51
Speaker 11: kids throwing themselves on the sidewalk, trying to get to
32:54
Speaker 11: school while air raid sirens sound. It's like scenes out
32:58
Speaker 11: of World War two movies. But very few people are
33:01
Speaker 11: getting killed, in part because so many have fled, and
33:04
Speaker 11: in other part because the population is well trained and
33:07
Speaker 11: they either are staying at home, not working, keeping their
33:10
Speaker 11: kids at home, falling into poverty, or they have bomb
33:14
Speaker 11: shelters nearby.
33:16
Speaker 6: And so.
33:18
Speaker 11: You know, Donald Trump, hearing that there was a double
33:21
Speaker 11: drone attack in northern Israel, says, you know, it's nothing.
33:24
Speaker 11: Why is nisainno overreacting like it was just a little
33:28
Speaker 11: tiny attack. It doesn't count. What he's saying isn't completely ridiculous,
33:33
Speaker 11: right because no one was killed, But the fact that
33:36
Speaker 11: no one was killed covers up the primary fact, which
33:40
Speaker 11: is that life is unlivable on the Israeli North.
33:44
Speaker 8: Can I ask how the upcoming elections in a way
33:48
Speaker 8: that Americans might not fully understand, could be influencing the
33:52
Speaker 8: reactions of bengavir' Smotrich, also Netanyahu himself and people who
33:57
Speaker 8: are anti l food in Israel because you break down
33:59
Speaker 8: some of the dynamics surrounding the MoU but within the
34:02
Speaker 8: context of electoral politics, Noga.
34:05
Speaker 11: Yes, I can, and I'm going to apologize ahead of time,
34:08
Speaker 11: but I want to take a step back before I
34:10
Speaker 11: respond to you, because Israel is really really in like
34:14
Speaker 11: a critical life support type situation in which, to my knowledge,
34:19
Speaker 11: all of the leaders of the opposition, certainly former Prime
34:22
Speaker 11: Minister and of Tally Bennett, who gets intel briefings on
34:25
Speaker 11: the level of the Prime Minister, former Defense Minister, of
34:28
Speaker 11: Vigdor Liebermann, all of these are right wing guys. No
34:32
Speaker 11: nothing radical about them, kind of the old school solid
34:36
Speaker 11: right wing. They have said that they have information that
34:40
Speaker 11: the Likud Prime Minister at Tanyao's party is attempting to
34:44
Speaker 11: either postpone, or cancel or manipulate the upcoming elections. And
34:49
Speaker 11: so when I answer your question, what you have to
34:51
Speaker 11: know in the background is that there's immense anxiety in
34:55
Speaker 11: Israel relating to these elections or what the hell is
34:59
Speaker 11: going to happen? I hope I can speak this way. So,
35:04
Speaker 11: for example, under Israeli law, which this government explicitly and
35:09
Speaker 11: overtly tramples on, but under Israeli law, elections have to
35:12
Speaker 11: be held by October twenty seventh. In other words, the
35:15
Speaker 11: government does nothing. That is the date set for elections.
35:19
Speaker 11: The government is doing nothing despite really significant efforts by
35:23
Speaker 11: many of nataia Who's coalition partners to try and bring
35:26
Speaker 11: the elections up, not to have this kind of horrific
35:30
Speaker 11: October twenty seventh date with all of its terrible echoes
35:34
Speaker 11: for this government. Netania Who is just pushing and pushing
35:37
Speaker 11: and pushing the election away, and they are real fears
35:40
Speaker 11: about what kind of manipulation or worse he may be attempting.
35:47
Speaker 11: In this context, what you have right now is who
35:51
Speaker 11: is Israelis have never before seen him, right, He's really
35:55
Speaker 11: the most dominant figure I think it's fair to say
35:57
Speaker 11: in Israeli political history he's never been a beloved politician
36:02
Speaker 11: in Israel. Ever, he has been feared, he has been respected,
36:08
Speaker 11: he's been ignored. For a lot of the time that
36:10
Speaker 11: he was Prime minister. In part thanks to him, and
36:13
Speaker 11: in great part not Israel was doing well enough that
36:16
Speaker 11: people could ignore their leaders. And if he had made,
36:20
Speaker 11: you know, like antics internationally or embarrassed Israel at the
36:24
Speaker 11: UN even people who never voted for him, never liked him,
36:27
Speaker 11: were happy to ignore it. For a long period of time,
36:30
Speaker 11: that's become impossible. And today everything he does and everything
36:34
Speaker 11: he doesn't do is seen in the prism of what
36:38
Speaker 11: does this mean for elections? And will we have elections? Now,
36:43
Speaker 11: what I'm saying to you, I think other Israeli analysts
36:46
Speaker 11: who you might speak to would say, I'm exaggerating. Right,
36:49
Speaker 11: of course, there will be elections, and it may well
36:52
Speaker 11: be that there will be elections, as there must be. However,
36:56
Speaker 11: I know for sure that he is trying for their
36:59
Speaker 11: not to be regular elections. So that's one of the
37:02
Speaker 11: diconomies here. Prime Minister in NATANIAO domestically politically inside Israel,
37:08
Speaker 11: is simply trapped in a spider web, a sticky spider
37:14
Speaker 11: web of his own making. And I don't see what
37:17
Speaker 11: his way out will be. So he has this reputation
37:20
Speaker 11: of being a magician, right, but what he has done
37:24
Speaker 11: is promise Israelis. Let's say, in the last year two things.
37:29
Speaker 11: One is he's mister Security. He is back to presenting
37:33
Speaker 11: himself as the only guy who can guarantee Israeli's security,
37:37
Speaker 11: border security, national security.
37:39
Speaker 7: And he has.
37:40
Speaker 11: Adopted this pose despite having been Prime Minister on the
37:44
Speaker 11: day of the worst security catastrophe in Israeli history. And
37:48
Speaker 11: I think, I think it's fair to say one of
37:50
Speaker 11: the worst terror attacks in known history and modern history,
37:53
Speaker 11: since we have this concept of terror, right ony, two
37:56
Speaker 11: hundred people killed in Israel in a single day. It's
38:00
Speaker 11: an astonishing failure. But nonetheless, he has promoted himself this way.
38:06
Speaker 11: And this is because he assumed that he was going
38:09
Speaker 11: to get a victory shot, right. He kept touting what
38:12
Speaker 11: he called total victory. He even had it emblazoned on
38:15
Speaker 11: like Trump like hats. He took one as a gift
38:17
Speaker 11: to Donald Trump. Total victory. And when you look at
38:21
Speaker 11: what's happening now, there is total non victory on the
38:25
Speaker 11: southern border with Gaza Hamas is resurgent. There is absolutely
38:31
Speaker 11: no victory. There's something very close to defeat on the
38:35
Speaker 11: northern border with his Bala, where four soldiers. These are
38:39
Speaker 11: drafted soldiers, So basically eighteen year old kids got killed
38:43
Speaker 11: today in a tank that was blown up by his Bala,
38:46
Speaker 11: where people can't live normal lives. And then now this
38:50
Speaker 11: catastrophe with Iran, and that dovetails with his second promise
38:54
Speaker 11: to Israelis, which is I've got Trump in my back pocket.
38:58
Speaker 11: I'm Trump's best friend. It doesn't matter that the rest
39:01
Speaker 11: of the world hates us, because I have Donald Trump.
39:04
Speaker 11: I bring you Donald Trump. And I just heard today, incidentally,
39:08
Speaker 11: that the Lecoute party had planned has already like you know,
39:12
Speaker 11: filmed and put into some drawer, an entire campaign, like
39:17
Speaker 11: a video campaign, electoral campaign that hearkens back to the
39:22
Speaker 11: twenty nineteen Natagnelle campaign in which he had these massive
39:27
Speaker 11: banners that covered entire Skyskirpers in Tel Aviv showing him
39:31
Speaker 11: shaking hands with Donald Trump, and the logo at that
39:34
Speaker 11: time was I'm in another league.
39:37
Speaker 4: Right elba.
39:40
Speaker 3: If there are elections now, it seems like there are
39:43
Speaker 3: people to the right of Nan Yahoo in the Lacud party,
39:47
Speaker 3: and then there are some more liberal people to the
39:51
Speaker 3: left of Nan Yahoo that say very similar things.
39:53
Speaker 4: About the war about Gaza.
39:56
Speaker 3: Is there a candidate that you see in Israel that
39:59
Speaker 3: would actually really create a meaningful political difference if there
40:03
Speaker 3: are elections?
40:06
Speaker 11: I think any other candidate right now leading a party
40:11
Speaker 11: were he to win. Unfortunately I say he because there
40:14
Speaker 11: are no women leading any parties in Israel right now.
40:17
Speaker 11: I think what would make a significant difference, a difference
40:21
Speaker 11: that could be really astonishing in fact. And I don't
40:24
Speaker 11: know what exactly you mean when you say to the
40:27
Speaker 11: right of Nataiaho, because Nataia, who has very happily adapted
40:31
Speaker 11: himself to the most extremist, racial supremacist theocratic narratives, threats Natania,
40:42
Speaker 11: who has not castigated any of his ministers for saying
40:47
Speaker 11: any of the outrageous things they've said. Netanyahu and his
40:52
Speaker 11: Leycoup party launched their first what looked like a campaign
40:56
Speaker 11: video a week ago, and it is an overtly racist video.
41:01
Speaker 11: I mean, there's just nothing else you can say about
41:03
Speaker 11: it that it's racist fear mongering. So I'm not sure
41:08
Speaker 11: that there are a lot of people to the right
41:09
Speaker 11: of Nitagniell who right now, I think Nataillo is either
41:14
Speaker 11: much more to the right than people thought, including myself
41:17
Speaker 11: during many years in which he appeared to be a
41:19
Speaker 11: sort of standard issue right wing prime minister, or like
41:23
Speaker 11: other people say, he's beholden to these extremes because he's
41:28
Speaker 11: on trial for corruption, his trials not going well. He
41:32
Speaker 11: has basically cut off Israel's diplomatic ties, including you know,
41:38
Speaker 11: to the EU, which is Israel's number one trading partner.
41:41
Speaker 11: He now appears to have lost Donald Trump, at least
41:45
Speaker 11: in the sense of public diplomatic support. I don't think
41:48
Speaker 11: that jd Vance would be speaking the way he is
41:50
Speaker 11: without an okay from the President. And so I consider
41:55
Speaker 11: natagnia who the face of the ultra right wing in Israel,
42:00
Speaker 11: and I do think that any other one of the candidates,
42:02
Speaker 11: including pretty significantly right wing candidates who oppose him, would
42:09
Speaker 11: change the panorama in Israel completely, among other things, because
42:13
Speaker 11: everyone who is running against him, first of all, believes
42:17
Speaker 11: in rule of law. Ntayahu overtly no longer believes in
42:21
Speaker 11: rule of law. When we see him sort of unfettered
42:24
Speaker 11: on the diplomatic stage, you have to know that in
42:27
Speaker 11: the domestic Israeli stage, he is much more unbound and unleashed.
42:33
Speaker 11: His government openly disobeys Supreme Court rulings, openly uses racism
42:39
Speaker 11: as a tool. And I think that anybody else, whether
42:43
Speaker 11: we like them or not, or agree with them or not,
42:45
Speaker 11: would just be a major qualitative change.
42:49
Speaker 5: So enough Tally Bennett is maybe you tell me if
42:52
Speaker 5: I'm wrong. Probably his primary opponent at this at this
42:56
Speaker 5: point can walk us through what he meant. So this
43:00
Speaker 5: Jerusalem Post reported and he said this publicly, so it
43:02
Speaker 5: doesn't matter where it was reported. He said, quote the
43:05
Speaker 5: clock for Iran regime change to start as soon as
43:09
Speaker 5: government in Israel changes. And the term of the net
43:13
Speaker 5: Yahu government began with the civil war, continued with the
43:16
Speaker 5: massacre of the seventh of October, and ends with historic
43:18
Speaker 5: failure against iran'sid Bennett, So what does he mean and
43:21
Speaker 5: what would a what would a Bennett government mean for it? Like,
43:26
Speaker 5: what does he mean He's going to continue to do
43:28
Speaker 5: regime or he's going to start regime change? You know,
43:30
Speaker 5: if he takes powers, does that mean the next Prime
43:32
Speaker 5: minister is going to be trying to get us to
43:35
Speaker 5: go to war again with the Iran or is he
43:37
Speaker 5: talking about kind of stoking internal unrest and doing some
43:43
Speaker 5: type of a coup in Iran like? And how how
43:45
Speaker 5: in general would Israel look under him if he came
43:50
Speaker 5: back to power. So what he had like six months
43:52
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty one or something as prime minister?
43:56
Speaker 11: He was prime minister for a year and a half,
43:58
Speaker 11: and he was surprisingly I would say, middle of the road,
44:06
Speaker 11: standard issue responsible prime minister given what was known about
44:10
Speaker 11: him ahead of time. Before I answer your question, Ryan,
44:13
Speaker 11: if you forgive me, I just want to point out
44:15
Speaker 11: something in that Jerusalem Post headline that you showed, which
44:18
Speaker 11: is that this is an ai translated translation of a
44:24
Speaker 11: Hebrew language article I believe from ma Ariv who that's
44:27
Speaker 11: a fairly right wing outlet that partners you see of
44:30
Speaker 11: the Seven in October.
44:31
Speaker 6: Yeah, I noticed that too.
44:33
Speaker 11: So the reason I'm bringing this up is look at
44:36
Speaker 11: the Jerusalem Post. The first tab it has our conferences. Right.
44:41
Speaker 11: The Jerusalem Post used to be a real newspaper, English
44:44
Speaker 11: language newspaper in Israel. Today I don't think we can
44:47
Speaker 11: really consider real media. It's sort of a right wing
44:50
Speaker 11: conference organizing platform that still has a media outlet, And
44:55
Speaker 11: the reason I want to point out the translation is
44:57
Speaker 11: I can tell you what I think oftally Bennett said
44:59
Speaker 11: for my knowledge of him. But this is the kind
45:02
Speaker 11: of mistakes that often happen when foreign journalists try and
45:07
Speaker 11: cover Israel and the only people they know are kind
45:10
Speaker 11: of Israeli techies who speak English and they read what
45:13
Speaker 11: looks to be like English language media, and much of
45:16
Speaker 11: it is really problematic, and most Israelis are not that
45:20
Speaker 11: sophisticated and are much more provincial. So I just want
45:23
Speaker 11: to point that out because it's a nice hook seeing
45:25
Speaker 11: that mistake there. Yeah, my guess of what Naftali Bennett
45:30
Speaker 11: was trying to say there is something quite different than
45:35
Speaker 11: the way it's interpreted I think in English. My guess
45:38
Speaker 11: is that he's speaking internally to Israelis who are terrified
45:42
Speaker 11: of Iran and want to see regime change in Iran,
45:45
Speaker 11: and what he is saying to them is, remember I
45:48
Speaker 11: was a responsible prime minister. He's I don't think he's
45:51
Speaker 11: talking about either an internal fomenting an internal coup in
45:54
Speaker 11: Iran or another war. I think what he's talking about
45:59
Speaker 11: is rebuild Israeli diplomatic ties, trying to re establish sanctions
46:04
Speaker 11: which are now gone against Iran, trying to tell reassure
46:07
Speaker 11: Israelis that he will be able to create again circumstances
46:12
Speaker 11: in which the Iranian Islamist regime will appear weak and fragile,
46:17
Speaker 11: as opposed to powerful and victorious as it is appearing
46:20
Speaker 11: this week.
46:22
Speaker 4: God.
46:22
Speaker 5: So, the one thing I've been asking people Israelis on
46:27
Speaker 5: social media, and I haven't gotten a quote, an answer
46:31
Speaker 5: satisfying answer. Yes, I'm curious if you could answer it.
46:34
Speaker 5: There's been so much rage at and Griffin put up
46:38
Speaker 5: the poll of the Israeli public. Who knows the polls
46:40
Speaker 5: right or not, but it is rarely public turning on
46:43
Speaker 5: Trump and feeling betrayed and feeling like and you describe
46:46
Speaker 5: the shock and the and the fear. My question has
46:51
Speaker 5: been okay, but what like what did you think was
46:54
Speaker 5: going to happen? Like you don't want this agreement. I
46:58
Speaker 5: understand that the Republicans and Democrats here in the United
47:01
Speaker 5: States don't like the terms of the MoU. They don't
47:03
Speaker 5: like the sanctus are being left. I understand they don't
47:05
Speaker 5: like those things, But what is the alternative, Like, how
47:10
Speaker 5: did the Israeli public and the Israeli political class see
47:13
Speaker 5: this unfolding in a way that led to something different,
47:17
Speaker 5: like do they really want us to go back to war?
47:20
Speaker 6: Like do they think that.
47:22
Speaker 5: Renewing the war effort was a smart thing to do
47:26
Speaker 5: and would actually lead to a better situation. We had
47:28
Speaker 5: reported a couple of weeks ago at drop site that is,
47:31
Speaker 5: Israel's ballistic missile interceptor capacity was down to double digits,
47:36
Speaker 5: that they were extraordinarily reliant on the US Navy ballistic
47:40
Speaker 5: missile interceptors, which themselves were significantly depleted, and that the
47:47
Speaker 5: is that the Iranians retained a significant number of their
47:51
Speaker 5: hypersonic ballistic missiles.
47:52
Speaker 6: And that's just on that front.
47:53
Speaker 5: That's that's before you get to the drones, and that's
47:56
Speaker 5: before the houthis kind of enter the fray and shut
47:59
Speaker 5: down bubble NEMDA straight.
48:02
Speaker 4: So what are they like?
48:04
Speaker 5: So that's the question, like what what alternative path that
48:09
Speaker 5: has any rationality to it would lead to a better
48:13
Speaker 5: outcome that they feel like Trump betrayed them by not
48:17
Speaker 5: going down? Well what am I missing here? Because I
48:20
Speaker 5: don't see any other path apart from I tried the war.
48:25
Speaker 5: War didn't work, Like why would it work again?
48:30
Speaker 11: So I mean, this is a question we could discuss
48:32
Speaker 11: for an hour, right in part because we are all
48:35
Speaker 11: of us living in an era of I think, irresolvable
48:39
Speaker 11: political paradoxes and also non rationality. You're asking for a
48:44
Speaker 11: rational response, and you're in this case, you really are
48:47
Speaker 11: like screaming up the right tree. Because I have gone
48:50
Speaker 11: the zerk in recent weeks, and I've even, you know
48:53
Speaker 11: something I never do, gotten into someone Twitter TIFs with
48:57
Speaker 11: Israeli right wingers who are a dancing this notion that
49:02
Speaker 11: to me was clearly a fantasy from the start, something
49:07
Speaker 11: cheap that they were trying to sell the Israeli public
49:09
Speaker 11: as they desperately cling to power, which was the US
49:12
Speaker 11: is about to strike again. Israelis have been living in
49:16
Speaker 11: a bubble that is very cartoonish and that is not
49:19
Speaker 11: at all rational, in which I think. I think, certainly
49:25
Speaker 11: what I call the BB block right, I don't consider
49:28
Speaker 11: this particularly right wing. I don't think that the Natanielle
49:31
Speaker 11: government has any right wing achievements that it can show
49:34
Speaker 11: in the last three years three and a half years
49:36
Speaker 11: it has been in power. So it's become kind of
49:38
Speaker 11: a cult of personality, a little bit like the Republican
49:41
Speaker 11: Party and they sold Israel a fantasy. Now it's entirely
49:48
Speaker 11: possible that nataielle who himself was not lying when I've
49:53
Speaker 11: observed n'ataia who the few times I've managed to observe
49:56
Speaker 11: him up closed, mostly those days that I've attended his trial.
50:00
Speaker 11: Ntsaneo appears to me more and more a figure who
50:03
Speaker 11: genuinely has drunk his own kool aid, who genuinely inhabits
50:08
Speaker 11: a kind of alternate reality. And so I think that's
50:12
Speaker 11: one of the things that may have made him quite persuasive,
50:15
Speaker 11: because he's not lying, because he's sharing his deep belief
50:19
Speaker 11: right so.
50:21
Speaker 6: Israeli style, it's not if you believe.
50:24
Speaker 7: It, that's right.
50:26
Speaker 11: But there's something to that.
50:30
Speaker 6: I think, oh, it is when it comes to presenting
50:33
Speaker 6: your vision.
50:35
Speaker 11: So again I'm not I'm trying to explain something to
50:39
Speaker 11: you without making excuses, because this really is a matter
50:41
Speaker 11: that has enraged me. And the reason I have been
50:44
Speaker 11: enraged as a journalist working in Israel is because I
50:47
Speaker 11: think that the politicians in the ruling class, and really
50:52
Speaker 11: an astonishing swath of the Israeli media just have collapsed
50:57
Speaker 11: into jingoistic, superficial tinpot narratives, right. I think that the
51:07
Speaker 11: Israeli media, with significant exceptions of excellent journalists who have
51:12
Speaker 11: very bravely done a really good job. But the overriding
51:16
Speaker 11: narrative in Israel has been Donald Trump loves us, and
51:20
Speaker 11: he's gonna fly in like Superman and he is gonna
51:24
Speaker 11: save our asses. And it doesn't matter. This is the
51:27
Speaker 11: Natagniel line. Doesn't matter. If Emmanuel Macron hates us, screw him.
51:32
Speaker 11: We've got Donald Trump. This I mean to say that
51:35
Speaker 11: this is an irresponsible line. Doesn't begin to explain it
51:40
Speaker 11: for a country whose catastrophic vulnerability was revealed on October seventh.
51:46
Speaker 11: I mean, think about it, right, the betrayal of Israeli
51:49
Speaker 11: national security by putting all Israeli interests just in the
51:52
Speaker 11: hands of Donald Trump, when he is known to be
51:55
Speaker 11: someone who betrays his closest allies, and he's known to
51:59
Speaker 11: be someone with very fickle opinions, even on matters of
52:02
Speaker 11: global import it almost leaves you without words.
52:07
Speaker 4: Right.
52:07
Speaker 11: So there have been all along extremely prominent Israeli voices
52:14
Speaker 11: saying from the start, there's no strategy to this war
52:17
Speaker 11: with Iran, There's no strategy to the war in Lebanon,
52:21
Speaker 11: and our national security is being endangered by this fantasy.
52:26
Speaker 11: And some of them include some opposition leaders. Yeah, your Golan,
52:29
Speaker 11: a former deputy chief of staff of the Israeli Army
52:31
Speaker 11: who's head of the largest sort of mainstream center left party,
52:36
Speaker 11: and others, certainly people former intel leaders for IDF, chiefs
52:41
Speaker 11: of staff, and the former prime ministers, not just Naftali Bennett,
52:46
Speaker 11: but Ehud Olmert, who really has gone out on a limb.
52:49
Speaker 11: So all along there have been voices in Israel, important
52:52
Speaker 11: voice is saying this is ridiculous, there's no strategy, and
52:56
Speaker 11: those voices have been amplified more and more as the
53:00
Speaker 11: weeks went on. But again, Israel is stuck. I think
53:05
Speaker 11: in a way that many Americans can relate to, because
53:09
Speaker 11: Donald Trump is in power in the White House and
53:11
Speaker 11: he has for now a majority in both houses of Congress.
53:14
Speaker 11: So even if a majority of Americans disagree with him,
53:19
Speaker 11: or if some people feel kind of voters remorse at
53:22
Speaker 11: this moment, I know for many Americans there's a feeling
53:24
Speaker 11: like there's nothing we can do, and that is something
53:28
Speaker 11: first of all real and Israel and Nataneo still holds
53:31
Speaker 11: on to his tiny but powerful majority that he won
53:35
Speaker 11: back in decend November twenty twenty two, and he has
53:40
Speaker 11: stoked this narrative of inevitability if my way is the
53:44
Speaker 11: only way and anyone else is a trader, and I
53:47
Speaker 11: mean this using the word trader against the media. He's
53:51
Speaker 11: called the media enemies of the state. He calls his
53:53
Speaker 11: opponents traders. He can't stop talking about a candidate that
53:58
Speaker 11: you didn't mention yet, Ryan Godie Eisenkott. He's someone I
54:02
Speaker 11: would suggest keeping an eye on. He's less well known.
54:06
Speaker 11: He doesn't speak polished English. In a way, he's an
54:09
Speaker 11: anti Nitaniahu. He's a former chief of Staff of the
54:12
Speaker 11: army and he's one of these two guys along Benny Gunz,
54:16
Speaker 11: who kind of decided to shoulder the burden and they
54:20
Speaker 11: joined this national government emergency government on October eleventh, twenty
54:25
Speaker 11: twenty three. But he was the first to leave it
54:28
Speaker 11: and Godi asenkoutt, Sorry, no, so yeah, I.
54:31
Speaker 4: Think we're gonna have to probably leave that there. Today.
54:34
Speaker 3: Maybe we can have you back on and talk more
54:35
Speaker 3: about the elections that we hopefully occur, that we hope
54:39
Speaker 3: occur in Israel soon. But thank you for how illuminating.
54:43
Speaker 3: This was Noga. Where can people find your journalism?
54:48
Speaker 11: Well, I appear very often on France twenty four TV
54:53
Speaker 11: and English. I'm on Twitter at En Turnopolski, I'm on
54:58
Speaker 11: the World on NPR fairly often, and I write articles
55:02
Speaker 11: in different outlets.
55:04
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll definitely link to that in the description. Thank
55:06
Speaker 3: you so much for joining us today, and we definitely
55:09
Speaker 3: hope to speak to you more in the future.
55:11
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Thanks Nogut.
55:16
Speaker 4: All right, well that.
55:17
Speaker 3: Was the Israeli perspective, But why don't we uh move
55:21
Speaker 3: back over to the United States perspective for a sec Emily,
55:25
Speaker 3: there are some people in the GOP with some for
55:29
Speaker 3: some the very first time ever harsh words for our
55:34
Speaker 3: brave president.
55:35
Speaker 4: Let's start with let's.
55:36
Speaker 8: Pause, though not the first time ever, the first time
55:39
Speaker 8: since many of them were like virulently never Trump is
55:42
Speaker 8: twenty sixty hmm.
55:43
Speaker 3: Okay, timeline correction. But let's start with friend of the show, Batya,
55:48
Speaker 3: let's take a listen.
55:50
Speaker 12: Went into this. The President laid out three main goals.
55:53
Speaker 12: He said he wanted to get rid of their navy.
55:54
Speaker 12: He wanted to get rid of their ballistic capabilities, and
55:56
Speaker 12: he wanted to get rid of their ability to achieve
55:58
Speaker 12: a nuclear weapon. I don't see any of that in
56:01
Speaker 12: this MoU Of course, they promised not to pursue a
56:04
Speaker 12: nuclear weapon. Guess what. They promised that to President Obama
56:07
Speaker 12: as well, and then they lied and cheated. Right, their
56:10
Speaker 12: word means nothing, which is the whole point of going
56:12
Speaker 12: after them in this military way.
56:14
Speaker 8: Now.
56:14
Speaker 12: The one thing that I found the most distressing is
56:17
Speaker 12: that Vice President Vance has been the only member of
56:19
Speaker 12: the cabinet who's out there defending this, and he keeps
56:22
Speaker 12: implying that the people who have a problem with it
56:25
Speaker 12: are somehow you know, warhawk want an endless, you know,
56:28
Speaker 12: ground swell of ground troops on the ground in order
56:31
Speaker 12: to finish the deal. I find that very insulting. I
56:34
Speaker 12: don't want that we had them on the ropes. They
56:37
Speaker 12: have never been as weak as they were last Friday,
56:41
Speaker 12: right before the President agreed to this exact goal, and
56:44
Speaker 12: I just do not understand pressure. In sixty days, when
56:48
Speaker 12: they have all their money back, they're going to be
56:50
Speaker 12: much stronger and much less likely to agree to anything
56:53
Speaker 12: that would make this not just better than the JCPOA,
56:57
Speaker 12: but just as good as the JCPOA.
57:00
Speaker 4: I think nobody was saying.
57:02
Speaker 8: Nobody was saying a week ago that we had them
57:05
Speaker 8: on the ropes. I mean maybe a couple of people,
57:07
Speaker 8: but nobody was saying that a week ago. And this
57:09
Speaker 8: is like the I get why people are saying, oh,
57:12
Speaker 8: jd Vance has the straw mand that the only option
57:15
Speaker 8: is thousands of ground troops and more and more months
57:19
Speaker 8: in war and quagmire. But the argument is that the
57:23
Speaker 8: only other options would inevitably lead to that, So it's
57:26
Speaker 8: actually not a straw man. The argument is, of course,
57:28
Speaker 8: like I know our viewers understand that, but the argument
57:31
Speaker 8: is that anything else that you do is going to
57:34
Speaker 8: inevitably lead to ground troops. There is not any other
57:37
Speaker 8: option that doesn't look like escalation, So make the argument
57:40
Speaker 8: for escalation. But nobody a week ago was saying that
57:43
Speaker 8: we had them on the ropes, and that this was
57:45
Speaker 8: everyone was saying, we need to do more to get
57:46
Speaker 8: them on the ropes.
57:47
Speaker 7: So it's just it's head spinning.
57:49
Speaker 2: I mean, for Batya, her entire worldview, whether it's this
57:54
Speaker 2: or whether it's you know, her view of Israel is
57:57
Speaker 2: this great moral actor, or whether it's the idea of
58:00
Speaker 2: Trump is some true champion of the working class. It
58:02
Speaker 2: all depends on complete and utter delusion and disconnection from reality.
58:07
Speaker 2: So it does not surprise me that once again she's
58:10
Speaker 2: pushing this idea that we had a run on the ropes. Now,
58:14
Speaker 2: President Trump told you straight out at the g seventh Summit,
58:18
Speaker 2: they had us on the ropes. We had a few
58:20
Speaker 2: weeks to go before what unfolded was what he described
58:23
Speaker 2: as bedlam.
58:24
Speaker 10: That's why we're here.
58:25
Speaker 2: We're here because you and your ideology and your ideological
58:30
Speaker 2: brethren pushed us towards this war.
58:32
Speaker 10: Trump, you know, a big boy, decided himself. He thought
58:35
Speaker 10: this would be some legacy building piece gets us into this.
58:39
Speaker 10: It was a disaster. We lost, and this is the
58:42
Speaker 10: inevitable result.
58:43
Speaker 2: But rather than grappling with that, she has to spin
58:46
Speaker 2: some delusional fantasy of, oh, actually, if we'd just bombed
58:49
Speaker 2: them one more time, one more around, you know, if
58:51
Speaker 2: we blew up a few more little girls schools, then
58:54
Speaker 2: we could have had victory in hand. It's so utterly
58:57
Speaker 2: preposterous and literally no one will leave that, and.
59:01
Speaker 5: The discrepancy between the reality and the way that she's
59:04
Speaker 5: describing it is about as vast as you could possibly get.
59:08
Speaker 5: According to her, you can't trust Iran's word in these
59:12
Speaker 5: diplomatic agreements, because yes, they've previously said that they would
59:16
Speaker 5: not pursue a nuclear weapon, but she says they lied
59:18
Speaker 5: and they cheated. According to the IEA, which was monitoring
59:23
Speaker 5: Iron's compliance with the JCPOA, they were in compliance up
59:27
Speaker 5: until the moment that the US, for no reason other
59:31
Speaker 5: than the fact that Obama's name was on the deal,
59:34
Speaker 5: walked out of the deal, just unilaterally walked out of
59:37
Speaker 5: the deal. Trump then re enters negotiations last year and
59:41
Speaker 5: in the middle of those negotiations kills the negotiators. Then
59:45
Speaker 5: he re enters negotiations again, and in the middle of
59:49
Speaker 5: those negotiations kills the negotiators, including the head of the country.
59:58
Speaker 5: And they are the ones that are pplicitus and can't
1:00:00
Speaker 5: be trusted, like there has in the annals of negotiations
1:00:05
Speaker 5: and diplomacy in the last several hundred years. I don't
1:00:10
Speaker 5: think you can compile a track record as duplicitous as
1:00:15
Speaker 5: what Trump stacked up from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty six,
1:00:19
Speaker 5: like unilaterally walking away from a deal that was agreed
1:00:22
Speaker 5: to in good faith, then twice killing the people that
1:00:25
Speaker 5: you're claiming to be negotiating with with surprise attacks twice,
1:00:29
Speaker 5: and then for Baya to come on the back end
1:00:31
Speaker 5: of that and say that Iran is duplicitous and can't
1:00:34
Speaker 5: be trusted.
1:00:36
Speaker 6: Like there has Like it's.
1:00:40
Speaker 5: Almost a lower lumer level of just pure racism and Islamophobia,
1:00:45
Speaker 5: because her only argument would be, well, they're Muslims running
1:00:48
Speaker 5: and Muslims and evildoers, so therefore they just inherently as
1:00:53
Speaker 5: as the creatures and monsters they are, can't be trusted
1:00:56
Speaker 5: when the actual record is.
1:00:58
Speaker 13: What it is.
1:01:00
Speaker 6: Just that part alone is like, what are you what
1:01:02
Speaker 6: are you talking about?
1:01:03
Speaker 3: Well, Ryan, she's not alone because we have leadership on
1:01:06
Speaker 3: both the Republican and Democratic side voicing similar concerns.
1:01:10
Speaker 4: Why don't we take a listen to this next clip?
1:01:12
Speaker 8: Ins dollars to save predict lunatics who want to murder us.
1:01:19
Speaker 4: Is not a good idea.
1:01:20
Speaker 9: I think the President unfortunately, is receiving bad advice.
1:01:25
Speaker 14: On this deal.
1:01:25
Speaker 7: I was just going to ask you about there on
1:01:26
Speaker 7: do what do you think about it?
1:01:29
Speaker 15: This whole clear deal now no better than what we
1:01:32
Speaker 15: had back at twenty fifteen, back when Barack Obama cut
1:01:36
Speaker 15: the deal. And that's where Donald's Trump winds us up.
1:01:41
Speaker 7: After all of this, what a faris.
1:01:47
Speaker 4: We went to work?
1:01:48
Speaker 16: Who is that.
1:01:51
Speaker 4: Doing something in the streets that were moves? The streets
1:01:53
Speaker 4: were being used speacefully before our invasion.
1:01:56
Speaker 13: And now.
1:01:58
Speaker 14: In the future it's going to get access to his
1:02:01
Speaker 14: frozen assets.
1:02:02
Speaker 4: And what is run giving up for this?
1:02:05
Speaker 6: Nothing?
1:02:06
Speaker 11: Nothing, They're merely reaffirming what they've said before about their weapons.
1:02:10
Speaker 4: All I've seen is public reporting about it. That's a
1:02:13
Speaker 4: public reporting to.
1:02:14
Speaker 14: Me, suggests we're giving up an awful lot more to
1:02:17
Speaker 14: get a lot less than the Jason.
1:02:19
Speaker 8: P Away Absolutely stunning to see Lindsey Graham walk away
1:02:22
Speaker 8: from a camera.
1:02:23
Speaker 7: That's right, you don't see that every day.
1:02:26
Speaker 2: Put that he was headed to see if they're on
1:02:27
Speaker 2: any UFC fighters still hanging around, just check in to
1:02:33
Speaker 2: make sure they all got down safely.
1:02:35
Speaker 10: They could be, yeah, I mean ted crews there.
1:02:38
Speaker 2: Of course, with the hard criticism, which I mean, hey,
1:02:42
Speaker 2: he is consistent, right, The Republicans have been talking about
1:02:44
Speaker 2: the quote unquote palats of cash that Obama gave away
1:02:47
Speaker 2: to the Mullahs, the scary Mulla's for years, even though
1:02:50
Speaker 2: that was their money. We're talking about unfreezing assets, which again,
1:02:54
Speaker 2: are there money, something that Trump actually explained quite well.
1:02:57
Speaker 2: He was like, look, at some point, we should probably
1:02:59
Speaker 2: give that money if we want to maintain our credibility
1:03:01
Speaker 2: in the global financial system. But you note Cruz doesn't
1:03:05
Speaker 2: have the stones to actually criticize Trump. It's he's getting
1:03:09
Speaker 2: I think he's getting bad advice. So, you know, him
1:03:13
Speaker 2: taking that line because they know how fragile his ego
1:03:16
Speaker 2: is and that this is the game he has to play.
1:03:18
Speaker 10: I mentioned this yesterday.
1:03:19
Speaker 2: I mean it's a similar tactic to sort of what
1:03:20
Speaker 2: Joe Kent did of he resigned, But then his commentary
1:03:26
Speaker 2: was never critical of Trump. It was always if anyone
1:03:29
Speaker 2: can resolve the situation, it's our great strong leader, Donald Trump,
1:03:33
Speaker 2: who was doing everything amazing and perfect right up to
1:03:36
Speaker 2: this moment when he was misled by the Israelis and
1:03:39
Speaker 2: forced into war by the Israelis.
1:03:41
Speaker 10: So they're doing their own version of that.
1:03:42
Speaker 8: Well, I want to say, I don't think anybody has
1:03:45
Speaker 8: paid enough attention to this. I actually think Joe Kent
1:03:47
Speaker 8: may have, because he talked like that helped us get
1:03:51
Speaker 8: out of the war. Honestly, because Trump basically followed the
1:03:56
Speaker 8: Kent path to get it.
1:03:58
Speaker 7: Like Kent was like, cut the losses, gets.
1:04:02
Speaker 10: This, now we should just yeah a deal. We should
1:04:06
Speaker 10: just knok away walk Away were still closed.
1:04:10
Speaker 7: So I mean, I know, but I think he nudged
1:04:12
Speaker 7: him this.
1:04:13
Speaker 8: I don't know if that it was Joe Kent, but
1:04:14
Speaker 8: I think projecting that strategy was ultimately helpful. And another
1:04:20
Speaker 8: person who did that I think carefully was Tretah And
1:04:23
Speaker 8: I think it may have actually ended the war for now.
1:04:25
Speaker 7: We'll see, we'll see.
1:04:27
Speaker 2: I think what ended the war for now was oil
1:04:29
Speaker 2: executives coming to the White House and being like, there,
1:04:31
Speaker 2: let me tell you, buddy, China has actually saved our
1:04:34
Speaker 2: ass because they decided to import way less oil than
1:04:38
Speaker 2: they were and they had a large reserve, and they
1:04:40
Speaker 2: are very advanced in terms of renewable tech that is
1:04:43
Speaker 2: only going to hold out so much longer before we're
1:04:46
Speaker 2: going to have real problems. And he also said something
1:04:49
Speaker 2: in his presser that I thought was interesting that didn't
1:04:51
Speaker 2: get clipped as much, but he was talking about how
1:04:53
Speaker 2: like every time there was a piece deal, the markets
1:04:56
Speaker 2: went up, and then when there was war, the markets
1:04:59
Speaker 2: went down. And so I looked at that that was
1:05:01
Speaker 2: like the markets. They're more brilliant than any single person.
1:05:04
Speaker 2: We have to listen to the markets. I think he's
1:05:06
Speaker 2: telling the truth there. That that was his logic was like, oh,
1:05:09
Speaker 2: the markets respond well to peace. Let me see if
1:05:12
Speaker 2: I can do something in that direction.
1:05:15
Speaker 10: So I don't know.
1:05:15
Speaker 2: Maybe Joe Kenna had something to do with it. I
1:05:17
Speaker 2: would love to think that Trita had something to do
1:05:19
Speaker 2: with it. I think it probably had a lot more
1:05:20
Speaker 2: to do with him watching the lines go up on
1:05:23
Speaker 2: the market and the lines go down on our strategic
1:05:25
Speaker 2: patrol and reserve.
1:05:27
Speaker 13: Yeah.
1:05:27
Speaker 7: I don't disagree with that.
1:05:28
Speaker 8: I think when people put rhetoric that frames it a
1:05:30
Speaker 8: certain way in a silver platter.
1:05:31
Speaker 7: For him, it's helpful though, if that makes sense.
1:05:33
Speaker 10: Like if you if you can, like he can sort
1:05:35
Speaker 10: of grab onto it.
1:05:36
Speaker 3: Yeah right right, yeah here for Emily, the free price
1:05:39
Speaker 3: is gonna call to deport Joe Kent next.
1:05:42
Speaker 4: Sorry, Ryan, go for what you're going to say.
1:05:43
Speaker 5: So just actually to Crystal's point, he mentioned Hoover in
1:05:48
Speaker 5: separate occasions in that in that hour long press conference
1:05:52
Speaker 5: that he gave, and he said, he said, I don't
1:05:54
Speaker 5: want to be a Hoover, Like he really cares about
1:05:57
Speaker 5: how he's remembered he has. He mentioned before Carter that
1:06:02
Speaker 5: he was very nervous about a rescue operation or going
1:06:04
Speaker 5: in to get the uranium because what if the helicopters
1:06:07
Speaker 5: go down and then he becomes Carter as a result
1:06:09
Speaker 5: of that. And so the two presidents I think that
1:06:12
Speaker 5: are seared into his mind as failures in the last
1:06:15
Speaker 5: one hundred plus years are Hoover and Carter. And he
1:06:19
Speaker 5: absolutely he wants his name, you know, bringing out on
1:06:23
Speaker 5: monuments and statues and buildings and airports. He doesn't want
1:06:27
Speaker 5: to be associated with because he knows that you can
1:06:31
Speaker 5: become a symbol of like weakness and failure like Hoover.
1:06:36
Speaker 5: And he's like, never mind, I don't want that. He
1:06:39
Speaker 5: thought he was going to be the guy that Yeah,
1:06:41
Speaker 5: he thought he was going to be the guy that
1:06:42
Speaker 5: ended the Iranian Revolution and that would be his thing.
1:06:46
Speaker 5: He clearly sees that's not going to happen. So to
1:06:50
Speaker 5: get some marginal advantage at the risk of becoming Hoover,
1:06:52
Speaker 5: He's like, forget it.
1:06:53
Speaker 6: I'm out.
1:06:55
Speaker 3: So Ryan, your boy or our boy Julian of Dropside,
1:06:58
Speaker 3: our boy on the Hill has and talking to more politicians,
1:07:03
Speaker 3: more GOP let's take a listen.
1:07:05
Speaker 11: Doing in Iran. He went in with no plan, he
1:07:07
Speaker 11: had no plan to get out, and we are the losers,
1:07:10
Speaker 11: and Iran is laughing all the way to the bank.
1:07:13
Speaker 6: Dropsites Julian Andreoni here.
1:07:14
Speaker 7: Now that President Trump has signed the Memorandum.
1:07:16
Speaker 17: Of Understanding to end the war with Iran, one might
1:07:19
Speaker 17: expect senators who criticized the war while that was going
1:07:21
Speaker 17: on to come out in support of this new piece
1:07:24
Speaker 17: that's been reached. Regardless of how much of a loss
1:07:27
Speaker 17: the details seemed to signify, you wouldn't expect them to
1:07:30
Speaker 17: get more hawkish and try to drag the US back
1:07:32
Speaker 17: into a war that they didn't support in the first place.
1:07:35
Speaker 17: I wanted to test this theory, so I came up
1:07:37
Speaker 17: to Capitol Hill and asked senators about President Trump's comments
1:07:39
Speaker 17: at the G seven summit.
1:07:40
Speaker 6: Let's see what they had to say.
1:07:41
Speaker 14: All of a sudden, a lot of these senators who
1:07:46
Speaker 14: were willing to completely ignore their constitutional responsibilities with respect
1:07:52
Speaker 14: to getting into the war, suddenly you're interested in making
1:07:57
Speaker 14: it harder to get out of the world.
1:07:59
Speaker 15: I think as lack of understanding of that foreign policy
1:08:03
Speaker 15: and a total capitulation to Iran and an insult to
1:08:08
Speaker 15: our partners in the Middle East who have been attacked
1:08:13
Speaker 15: by Iran as part of.
1:08:14
Speaker 17: This, our partners in the Middle East, that Democrat on
1:08:19
Speaker 17: arm what exactly gives the US jurisdiction.
1:08:23
Speaker 11: Iran is the leading state sponsor of Iran and its
1:08:28
Speaker 11: proxies have terrorized the world for over forty.
1:08:31
Speaker 14: Hours and been with us.
1:08:33
Speaker 1: We we are their mental enemy.
1:08:36
Speaker 13: They're going to reap They're going to take that billion
1:08:39
Speaker 13: dollars the Trump is turned on for him in this
1:08:41
Speaker 13: m o U, and they're going to build more bombs
1:08:43
Speaker 13: and say death to America.
1:08:46
Speaker 6: If Saudi already had them.
1:08:48
Speaker 18: They've never threaten to kill us and haven't been killed
1:08:50
Speaker 18: us for decades, right, Iran has And so I was, well,
1:08:54
Speaker 18: you know, tried to go or you would ever say
1:08:57
Speaker 18: that's something that makes sense, change and be in a
1:09:00
Speaker 18: position that we are all once or twice they don't continue.
1:09:03
Speaker 3: Lot people would disagree, all right, that's a flavor I
1:09:06
Speaker 3: misspoken said.
1:09:07
Speaker 4: It was just you a p It was a bipartisan reflections.
1:09:11
Speaker 10: Mostly Democrats there, mostly Democrats.
1:09:13
Speaker 2: I think it's only work Scott at the end, right, Yeah,
1:09:15
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I Chris Van Holland great response about
1:09:19
Speaker 2: you know, they were totally cool with hey, President, you
1:09:22
Speaker 2: can go to war, and now that we want a piece,
1:09:24
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, Congress means to weigh ins. I appreciate
1:09:27
Speaker 2: his response there. There is a lot of people, a
1:09:30
Speaker 2: lot of people are just completely missing the mark. I mean,
1:09:32
Speaker 2: Jackie Rosen's comments there were disgraceful, you know, just very
1:09:36
Speaker 2: I mean they sound like a you sound like a
1:09:38
Speaker 2: Republican criticizing the Obama deal. Oh it's week o, you know, capitulation. Look,
1:09:42
Speaker 2: it's true, we are having to capitulate. That problem is
1:09:46
Speaker 2: the war. The problem is not the getting out of
1:09:48
Speaker 2: the war. And yet she's doing the whole you know,
1:09:51
Speaker 2: right wing song and dance, which just feeds into the
1:09:53
Speaker 2: neo con talking points and leads us back to a
1:09:56
Speaker 2: logic of that's why we need to go back to
1:09:59
Speaker 2: the war, that's why we need to hit them even
1:10:01
Speaker 2: harder and send the ground troops and have our men
1:10:03
Speaker 2: and women die in larger numbers in Iran. So, yeah,
1:10:08
Speaker 2: there's some there are some Democrats who you know, have
1:10:12
Speaker 2: said reasonable things, and I think it's fine to be
1:10:14
Speaker 2: critical of how we got here, but there's far too
1:10:17
Speaker 2: much of the Fox News sounding talking points. I got
1:10:21
Speaker 2: into a little back and forth with Tim Miller the
1:10:23
Speaker 2: Bulwark about this, because he was like, this is a
1:10:25
Speaker 2: gift to the Mullas.
1:10:26
Speaker 7: No, it's not.
1:10:27
Speaker 2: First of all, like I hate the Mullah's language is
1:10:31
Speaker 2: very you know, very fox News coded. But also it's
1:10:35
Speaker 2: not a gift. This is what you have to do
1:10:37
Speaker 2: when you lose a war, which is what happened here.
1:10:41
Speaker 2: So you know, there is not a better deal on
1:10:43
Speaker 2: the table at this moment, because we lost the war,
1:10:45
Speaker 2: and because we really don't have any other good options.
1:10:48
Speaker 2: This is the best of the terrible options that are
1:10:51
Speaker 2: available to us, given the fact that we entered this
1:10:54
Speaker 2: war to begin with.
1:10:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a really good point. It's not a gift.
1:10:58
Speaker 5: We entered into negotiations with them in the twenty tens
1:11:01
Speaker 5: because we wanted something from them. We wanted some regional stability,
1:11:05
Speaker 5: wanted them to agree to give up their you know,
1:11:07
Speaker 5: nuclear you know, to give up the nuclear program, a
1:11:10
Speaker 5: lowan and inspectors, so that the US could then kind
1:11:12
Speaker 5: of pivot away from the Middle East and go worry
1:11:15
Speaker 5: about our other problems in the world. Like we wanted
1:11:17
Speaker 5: something from them, they gave it to us, and then
1:11:19
Speaker 5: we when we ripped it up, and so like Elizabeth
1:11:23
Speaker 5: Warren's right, like we didn't. We don't have anything better
1:11:27
Speaker 5: than we had in twenty fifteen. In fact, it's probably worse.
1:11:30
Speaker 5: And the cost of all these lives, and not just
1:11:32
Speaker 5: the lives, the like reimposition of all those sanctions on
1:11:35
Speaker 5: a country of ninety million people, Like the amount of
1:11:38
Speaker 5: hunger and misery and lives that were you know, whose
1:11:43
Speaker 5: trajectory was was altered dramatically, Like the destruction of you know,
1:11:48
Speaker 5: professional educational opportunities for ninety million people. It never really
1:11:51
Speaker 5: gets discussed, but to a miserate a country of that
1:11:54
Speaker 5: size is producing an amount of human suffering among a
1:11:59
Speaker 5: completely in population, and not only for nothing but to
1:12:05
Speaker 5: kind of move us backward from what our stated objectives were.
1:12:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, Emily, final thought, here will the GOP.
1:12:15
Speaker 3: Will the Republicans eventually come to terms with this and
1:12:19
Speaker 3: following Trump's footsteps, start supporting him in this endeavor, or
1:12:23
Speaker 3: will they continue to have pushback on this deal?
1:12:28
Speaker 7: I mean, I suppose it just depends on what happens
1:12:30
Speaker 7: going forward.
1:12:31
Speaker 8: I expect that it'll crumble, but it will probably crumble
1:12:34
Speaker 8: in a slightly lower profile way, as we were talking
1:12:37
Speaker 8: about earlier in the show. I don't I mean, I
1:12:38
Speaker 8: just I don't know. But the bottom line is that
1:12:42
Speaker 8: it was the same thing. After on January seventh, twenty
1:12:45
Speaker 8: twenty one. You could hear the sigh of relief in Washington, DC,
1:12:49
Speaker 8: especially coming from the Senate, because people thought they were
1:12:52
Speaker 8: just done with Donald Trump, and then very quickly they
1:12:55
Speaker 8: realized that thirty percent of Republican voters were still hardcore
1:13:00
Speaker 8: in Trump's corner, and so most like most American voters,
1:13:04
Speaker 8: aren't like deep foreign policy ideologues. They're pragmatic, and it's
1:13:09
Speaker 8: it's partially what people saw in Donald Trump as a benefit,
1:13:12
Speaker 8: but they stick with Trump. If you have thirty percent
1:13:15
Speaker 8: of Republican voters who are attached to Donald Trump, you
1:13:20
Speaker 8: really can't get away from that because it's too for
1:13:23
Speaker 8: your own reelection purposes. It's too hard to sort of
1:13:27
Speaker 8: sever ties with Trump. So that always means that on
1:13:30
Speaker 8: individual policies, yes, they can be critical. They can try
1:13:32
Speaker 8: to put daylight between themselves and Trump, as Ted Cruz
1:13:35
Speaker 8: did just there.
1:13:36
Speaker 7: That's why they're immediately taking.
1:13:37
Speaker 8: Up a lot of what you're hearing in Israel about
1:13:39
Speaker 8: the vancification or the Tucker carlsonification of jd Vance. That
1:13:44
Speaker 8: this is the Dvance Deal, the Vanced Deal, the Vance Deal,
1:13:47
Speaker 8: and so that's already a preview of how they're trying
1:13:49
Speaker 8: to handle this. But there's no severing ties with Trump
1:13:54
Speaker 8: basically unless you're Tom Tillis or Bill Cassidy.
1:13:57
Speaker 7: And you don't need to get elected again. Yeah, in
1:14:00
Speaker 7: that case you can do it, but otherwise.
1:14:02
Speaker 4: No, All right, Well that does it for that.
1:14:06
Speaker 3: Ryan, you did an interview recently with malt Kiros and
1:14:10
Speaker 3: Julia Gonzalez.
1:14:11
Speaker 4: Tell us a little bit about that.
1:14:13
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:14:13
Speaker 5: Last weekend, Hassan Piker went to Denver for a rally
1:14:17
Speaker 5: with may Lot Kiros, who's running against Diana de Guet
1:14:20
Speaker 5: in Colorado, and Julie Gonzalez, who was running for Senate
1:14:24
Speaker 5: against John Hickenlooper, the incumbent Democratic Center. Both of them
1:14:27
Speaker 5: are within striking distance in this June thirtieth primary. They're
1:14:31
Speaker 5: also going to be joined, i believe by Donovan McKinney
1:14:34
Speaker 5: and Justin Pearson, who are kind of rising stars.
1:14:38
Speaker 6: I'm releive Michigan and.
1:14:40
Speaker 5: Tennessee and venue after venue after venue after signing the
1:14:46
Speaker 5: contract with them, canceled with the final and we'll talk
1:14:49
Speaker 5: about this in the interview with the final venue, telling
1:14:52
Speaker 5: them you didn't tell me this was a new Nazi rally.
1:14:55
Speaker 5: This is this is two African American politicians, one Ethiopian American,
1:15:03
Speaker 5: one Chikanah and then Hassan Piker would be the only
1:15:07
Speaker 5: kind of whiteish, even remotely whiteish.
1:15:11
Speaker 6: Person at this rally UH.
1:15:13
Speaker 5: And they ended up having to move it to the
1:15:16
Speaker 5: capital steps because everybody else they called around was told,
1:15:21
Speaker 5: we've been told not to not to rent to you guys,
1:15:25
Speaker 5: and so the real estate industry there.
1:15:29
Speaker 6: I think there have been plenty of populist candidates who.
1:15:34
Speaker 5: Have run UH and their interest clash with the real
1:15:37
Speaker 5: estate lobby, and they don't get blocked by venues. So
1:15:40
Speaker 5: I don't think this is primarily a real estate lobby
1:15:44
Speaker 5: kind of class issue. I think this is these are
1:15:46
Speaker 5: all anti genocide candidates, and I think this is a
1:15:50
Speaker 5: kind of a pro Israel pushback.
1:15:54
Speaker 8: So.
1:15:56
Speaker 3: Particular lightning around Yeah, okay, well let's let's hear from
1:16:00
Speaker 3: them about all that, and we'll see you on the
1:16:02
Speaker 3: other side.
1:16:04
Speaker 5: So, in a rather shocking development that cuts against our
1:16:06
Speaker 5: idea that we are a free society that encourages debate.
1:16:10
Speaker 5: Last weekend in Denver, a series of town halls, a
1:16:14
Speaker 5: series of political rallies were canceled as one venue after
1:16:18
Speaker 5: another shut down the ability of major political candidates to
1:16:24
Speaker 5: host an event there. Hassan Piker, the notorious streamer at
1:16:29
Speaker 5: this point kind of the focus of Third Way and
1:16:32
Speaker 5: the centrist element of the Democratic Party, was supposed to
1:16:36
Speaker 5: rally with congressional candidate may Lot Kiros and Senate candidate
1:16:41
Speaker 5: Julie Gonzalez, but venue after venue canceled, and so the
1:16:46
Speaker 5: event later had to be moved to in front of
1:16:49
Speaker 5: the state Capitol, which is apparently still public space. We're
1:16:53
Speaker 5: going to be joined by them in a moment. Actually,
1:16:55
Speaker 5: let's just bring them on right now. Julia Gonzalez and
1:16:58
Speaker 5: may Lot Kiros. Thank you, Thank you Julie for being here.
1:17:02
Speaker 13: Thank you so much for the opportunity.
1:17:04
Speaker 6: May Lot, thank you really appreciate it.
1:17:07
Speaker 16: Yeah, I happy to be here.
1:17:08
Speaker 6: And so I wanted to start with.
1:17:10
Speaker 5: A clip from Deep Badasha, who is a political consultant
1:17:14
Speaker 5: may A Lot.
1:17:14
Speaker 6: Is he on your campaign? Is that right?
1:17:17
Speaker 16: He's a volunteer at the campaign.
1:17:18
Speaker 5: Volunteer, volunteer in your camp. So he was, he was organizing,
1:17:22
Speaker 5: he was getting the venues together. He's done this with
1:17:24
Speaker 5: his with his team countless times. And here here's here
1:17:29
Speaker 5: he is briefly on the day that this is going down,
1:17:33
Speaker 5: talking to Stan Piker about what had unfolded and listened
1:17:37
Speaker 5: closely because this is a rather disturbing situation.
1:17:41
Speaker 19: And we show up the day up. So today we
1:17:43
Speaker 19: go in there and he looks pretty emotional and he's like,
1:17:46
Speaker 19: he's like, I've been getting blown up my phone all
1:17:49
Speaker 19: morning from people who own this place and the people
1:17:52
Speaker 19: who own like the lots, the people who own malls
1:17:54
Speaker 19: around here, like high up in like corporations, saying you
1:17:58
Speaker 19: can't do this event here. He said, people were thrown
1:18:00
Speaker 19: in with defamation lawsuits, that deflamation lawsuits, and then me
1:18:05
Speaker 19: and my wife are attorneys and were like, that's not
1:18:06
Speaker 19: how this defamation would work at all. That's not how
1:18:08
Speaker 19: this would work.
1:18:10
Speaker 7: And he was spooped.
1:18:11
Speaker 19: He's like, people blew up my phone. I've never seen
1:18:13
Speaker 19: this before. I'm a small business.
1:18:14
Speaker 9: I can't do this.
1:18:15
Speaker 19: They're telling me it's a safety risk. And this is
1:18:17
Speaker 19: the craziest thing is he's like, you didn't tell me
1:18:20
Speaker 19: it was a neo Nazi rally, and I was like, okay,
1:18:23
Speaker 19: what and you were there? Yeah, yeah, I was shocked
1:18:26
Speaker 19: when he said that, and I was like, first off,
1:18:28
Speaker 19: look at the poster. It's like three black candidates. Julli
1:18:32
Speaker 19: Gonzales was Latino and then a Turkish muslim man.
1:18:35
Speaker 6: What kind of neo Nazi rally is that? So a
1:18:38
Speaker 6: neo Nazi rally?
1:18:39
Speaker 5: These are progressive populist candidates running in Colorado, Julia running
1:18:44
Speaker 5: against Senator Heck and Looper or the incumbent democrat May Lott.
1:18:49
Speaker 5: You're running against Diana Guett, incumbent democrat there. I don't
1:18:55
Speaker 5: know anything about a neo Nazi platform. It's like absolutely
1:19:00
Speaker 5: mind boggling. Julie, I want to start with you. Have
1:19:03
Speaker 5: you heard anything since then about who led this pressure
1:19:09
Speaker 5: campaign and how this happened.
1:19:13
Speaker 13: I'll just say that genuinely, to see cancelation after cancelation
1:19:19
Speaker 13: after cancelation was pretty unprecedented. And I haven't heard since
1:19:27
Speaker 13: the rally concluded any more, you know, game playing with
1:19:33
Speaker 13: any of our other events, and so I'm grateful for that.
1:19:36
Speaker 13: But what is clear in this moment is that the
1:19:40
Speaker 13: oligarchs and the corporations that they control are really trying
1:19:46
Speaker 13: to build a campaign to stop working people from taking
1:19:50
Speaker 13: the power that is rightfully ours in this upcoming election.
1:19:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you're running against Diana to Gett, who's longtime
1:19:59
Speaker 5: Democrat and Democratic. In comment, she seems to be pretty
1:20:03
Speaker 5: concerned the election is coming on June thirtieth. Did you
1:20:09
Speaker 5: get any sense of where this pressure came from.
1:20:15
Speaker 20: Well, the congresswoman has been signaling to her donors for
1:20:18
Speaker 20: about a week now to levy some horrifically racist and
1:20:22
Speaker 20: dangerous attacks against myself.
1:20:25
Speaker 16: On the morning of the event, she.
1:20:27
Speaker 20: Made a post accusing Hassan Piker of anti Semitism and
1:20:31
Speaker 20: being a bigot. So while I don't know exactly who
1:20:35
Speaker 20: was responsible for this, I know who has been calling
1:20:37
Speaker 20: in her donors and her supporters to attack me and
1:20:41
Speaker 20: to attack the ideals and the policies of this campaign.
1:20:44
Speaker 20: And so ultimately this comes down to the people versus
1:20:47
Speaker 20: the oligarchy. This comes down to people in power trying
1:20:50
Speaker 20: to suppress speech and to silence our descent against the
1:20:54
Speaker 20: system as it exists today.
1:20:56
Speaker 16: And it didn't work. We took this rally to the
1:21:00
Speaker 16: little steps and within just.
1:21:02
Speaker 20: A few hours notice we had over a thousand Denver
1:21:04
Speaker 20: rights show up and hear our message and rally with
1:21:07
Speaker 20: us for our fight for a better world.
1:21:11
Speaker 5: May a lot, and then I'll have the same question
1:21:12
Speaker 5: for Julie basically, but what is it that, in your perspective,
1:21:17
Speaker 5: has given you kind of the opening? Traditionally, in kind
1:21:21
Speaker 5: of American politics, if you've been in office for decades,
1:21:25
Speaker 5: your name recognition is so high, You've done so many
1:21:28
Speaker 5: chicken dinners and so many potlucks, and you've met so
1:21:30
Speaker 5: many people in the district that it's very hard to
1:21:33
Speaker 5: kind of unseat and incumbent.
1:21:35
Speaker 6: What is it that has given the opening here?
1:21:38
Speaker 20: You know, I think there's certainly a mix of factors. Right,
1:21:41
Speaker 20: this is one of the most anti incumbent cycles that
1:21:43
Speaker 20: we've ever seen. The Democratic Party is looking at really
1:21:46
Speaker 20: abysmal approval ratings, and the electorate is ready for a change.
1:21:50
Speaker 16: But ultimately it's because we put in the work.
1:21:52
Speaker 20: We've been in this race for over eleven months now,
1:21:55
Speaker 20: and we started it off with me, my friend and
1:21:57
Speaker 20: a dream, and it was just us talking to voters
1:21:59
Speaker 20: and book stores and coffee shops and bars and restaurants
1:22:02
Speaker 20: and parks, meeting the voters where they're at having conversations
1:22:05
Speaker 20: about what kind of world they want to live in,
1:22:07
Speaker 20: what kind of country they want to see, and what
1:22:08
Speaker 20: kind of policies and leaders they want to see fighting
1:22:11
Speaker 20: for us. And we've been making having those conversations for
1:22:14
Speaker 20: eleven months and the people we spoke with spoke with
1:22:17
Speaker 20: their neighbors, their coworkers, their family friends, and we've reached
1:22:21
Speaker 20: a point now where there are enough Denver rights that
1:22:23
Speaker 20: know that there's a real progressive challenger in this race,
1:22:26
Speaker 20: that we don't have to settle for another thirty years
1:22:28
Speaker 20: of complacency, and that we can and do deserve better.
1:22:33
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:22:33
Speaker 5: And Julie John Hickenlooper is you know was correct, was
1:22:37
Speaker 5: mayor of Denver, ben senator now for.
1:22:42
Speaker 6: Quite some time.
1:22:43
Speaker 5: Kind of a well liked, you know, jovial kind of figure,
1:22:47
Speaker 5: but maybe appropriate for a different Colorado. Has something changing
1:22:53
Speaker 5: in Colorado that has put him out of step and
1:22:58
Speaker 5: out of step with the current mood.
1:23:01
Speaker 16: Absolutely.
1:23:02
Speaker 13: Look, I started organizing everyday people twenty years ago around
1:23:08
Speaker 13: affordable housing issues, educational justice concerns.
1:23:12
Speaker 16: And immigrant rights.
1:23:13
Speaker 13: And we did that work back when it was bipartisan
1:23:16
Speaker 13: to be anti immigrant, and we have done the work
1:23:20
Speaker 13: over the years to flip Colorado from being a trifecta
1:23:25
Speaker 13: red state to now being a trifecta blue state. I'm
1:23:28
Speaker 13: proud of that work. And yet to see that John
1:23:32
Speaker 13: Hickenlooper is still engaging in the politics of centrist incrementalism
1:23:38
Speaker 13: does not meet the rage that Colorado's are feeling about
1:23:42
Speaker 13: the fact that they're working harder than ever and still
1:23:46
Speaker 13: can barely afford the cost of housing, groceries, gas, health care, childcare.
1:23:53
Speaker 13: And so to see that he has gone and voted
1:23:55
Speaker 13: for not one, not two, but ten different Trump Cabinet
1:23:59
Speaker 13: nominees in the second Trump administration, second only to Fetterman,
1:24:04
Speaker 13: demonstrates that he is not prepared to leave. He's also
1:24:09
Speaker 13: gone and skipped six different debate opportunities and is just
1:24:14
Speaker 13: trying to bone it in and mail it in. And look,
1:24:19
Speaker 13: I think Colorado's are hungry for change, and that's why
1:24:22
Speaker 13: our campaign is building so much momentum on the ground.
1:24:26
Speaker 13: It's clear we're not going to out fundraise Pick, but
1:24:29
Speaker 13: we sure as hell are going to outorganize him. And
1:24:32
Speaker 13: that's clear across the state of Colorado.
1:24:37
Speaker 5: And I saw a recent Paul had you had him
1:24:40
Speaker 5: and I think forty one and you at thirty four,
1:24:42
Speaker 5: which is, you know, obviously'd rather be ahead if you're you,
1:24:44
Speaker 5: but if you're the incumbent, being under fifty is usually
1:24:48
Speaker 5: a frightening sign. You know, heading into the election, how
1:24:55
Speaker 5: are you feeling and what's your sense of whether or
1:24:57
Speaker 5: not you're going to have kind of the name recognition
1:25:00
Speaker 5: and the resources to get out there by June thirtieth.
1:25:04
Speaker 16: Absolutely, what is.
1:25:05
Speaker 13: Clear in this moment is that no one's coming to
1:25:08
Speaker 13: save us but us and Colorado's as we've been traveling
1:25:13
Speaker 13: the state. Just yesterday, I was in north northern northwestern
1:25:18
Speaker 13: Colorado in Steamboat Springs talking to voters there, and they
1:25:21
Speaker 13: were so excited to hear from a candidate who's willing
1:25:25
Speaker 13: to just show up. It should not be that loa bar,
1:25:30
Speaker 13: and yet that is where we're at right now. And
1:25:34
Speaker 13: when we talk about the issues that are impacting our lives,
1:25:38
Speaker 13: the fact that billionaires and the corporations that they control
1:25:41
Speaker 13: are increasingly driving up profit and maintaining a status quo
1:25:48
Speaker 13: that lines their pockets while making us work three jobs
1:25:53
Speaker 13: plus a side hustle just to afford the basics. That
1:25:57
Speaker 13: is why even though John Kick Andlooper look get it,
1:26:00
Speaker 13: he enjoys basically universal name id, but Colorado's also cannot
1:26:06
Speaker 13: name a single thing that he has led on and
1:26:09
Speaker 13: fought for. And that's why we are gaining such incredible
1:26:13
Speaker 13: momentum here in the polls, and we have the opportunity
1:26:17
Speaker 13: to make history in Colorado and send a direct message
1:26:21
Speaker 13: to Chuck Schumer that his days of hand picking candidates
1:26:25
Speaker 13: are over and his days of supporting do nothing Democrats
1:26:29
Speaker 13: are done.
1:26:31
Speaker 6: And would you support Senator Schumer?
1:26:35
Speaker 5: Is it possible if you, let's say you win, you
1:26:38
Speaker 5: win election, or are you looking for somebody new to
1:26:42
Speaker 5: lead the Senate Democrats.
1:26:45
Speaker 13: I believe that Chuck Schumer has done a fine job
1:26:49
Speaker 13: of managing effectively the Democratic Party's dissent into fascism instead
1:26:55
Speaker 13: of leading the charge to fight tooth and nail against it.
1:26:58
Speaker 13: And so I will not be voting for Chuck Schumer
1:27:01
Speaker 13: to continue on as the majority leader of our caucus
1:27:05
Speaker 13: and instead want to fight for someone who will end
1:27:10
Speaker 13: our addiction to corporate pack money and dark money and
1:27:14
Speaker 13: instead return our Democratic Party to being a party driven
1:27:19
Speaker 13: by and dedicated to fighting for working people.
1:27:23
Speaker 5: And it may lot take one of the clearest indications
1:27:27
Speaker 5: that they're taking your race extraordinarily seriously, is there are
1:27:29
Speaker 5: now a bunch of attack ads. Super pack called Mile
1:27:32
Speaker 5: High Accountability is out with an ad saying that Trump
1:27:36
Speaker 5: loves you and Trump loves democrats like you. What you
1:27:41
Speaker 5: know is it are you are you seeing on the
1:27:43
Speaker 5: ground any impact of the negative advertising, and.
1:27:49
Speaker 4: How are you.
1:27:49
Speaker 6: Responding to it?
1:27:51
Speaker 20: Ironically, a lot of these advertisements are actually introducing me
1:27:54
Speaker 20: to a lot of Denver rights who immediately see the
1:27:57
Speaker 20: advertisement and see it as outlandish and cartoonish, even and
1:28:03
Speaker 20: especially when you can go straight to my website and
1:28:06
Speaker 20: our platform and see that I haven't called for any
1:28:09
Speaker 20: of the things that they're accusing me of calling for,
1:28:12
Speaker 20: and to also see that the congresswoman herself.
1:28:15
Speaker 16: Is putting up attack ads against me.
1:28:17
Speaker 20: She tried signaling to her super packs to attack me for,
1:28:23
Speaker 20: you know, standing up against genocide and you know, taking
1:28:26
Speaker 20: in the context of violence in the way that it happens,
1:28:28
Speaker 20: because it never happens in a vacuum.
1:28:30
Speaker 16: And when they didn't take the bait, she started posting
1:28:32
Speaker 16: it herself.
1:28:33
Speaker 20: And these advertisements have been incredibly racist and incredibly dangerous
1:28:39
Speaker 20: to the situation, And so I think it shows that
1:28:43
Speaker 20: they're scared I think it shows that Demi rights are
1:28:46
Speaker 20: are are making it very clear that they're ready for
1:28:48
Speaker 20: a change. And more than anything, I think it shows
1:28:51
Speaker 20: that the congresswoman wasted these last eleven months in her
1:28:55
Speaker 20: responsibility to make her case to the voters and why
1:28:57
Speaker 20: she should get a sixteenth term on top of the
1:29:00
Speaker 20: thirty years that she's really failed to meaningfully show up
1:29:02
Speaker 20: for the voters of this district. And now it's clear
1:29:05
Speaker 20: as day to the voters here as well that with
1:29:08
Speaker 20: the attack ads that are coming in, that she doesn't
1:29:10
Speaker 20: actually have a case to be made based on her
1:29:12
Speaker 20: record or based on her platform, and voters are seeing
1:29:15
Speaker 20: that our campaign, one that is grassroots and people powered
1:29:18
Speaker 20: and is supported by multiple members of the city Council,
1:29:22
Speaker 20: of the State House, of the state Senate, of different
1:29:24
Speaker 20: progressive organizations and unions across the district, that we are
1:29:28
Speaker 20: the real progressives in this race, and that it's time
1:29:30
Speaker 20: for a change.
1:29:32
Speaker 5: And Julie, what are you leading with in the campaign
1:29:35
Speaker 5: when it comes to trying to reach voters, like what
1:29:40
Speaker 5: is the what are the critical issues that you're finding
1:29:43
Speaker 5: are separating you from center hick and Looper.
1:29:47
Speaker 13: First and foremost, I'll show up I will do the
1:29:50
Speaker 13: work and listen to everyone, not only when it's easy,
1:29:55
Speaker 13: but especially when it's hard. And we know that we
1:30:00
Speaker 13: we have the solutions at the ready that we don't
1:30:04
Speaker 13: need to spend time doing blue ribbon commissions or UH
1:30:09
Speaker 13: study groups about we know what the solutions are. Look,
1:30:12
Speaker 13: it's Medicare for all. It is universal child and elder care.
1:30:17
Speaker 13: It is ending the dark money and the influence that
1:30:21
Speaker 13: corporate packs and the billionaires and corporations who control them
1:30:26
Speaker 13: currently play in our politics. And my goodness, it is
1:30:30
Speaker 13: about lowering the cost of everyday life so that Colorados
1:30:35
Speaker 13: cannot just survive but actually thrive. And to me, when
1:30:40
Speaker 13: we are talking about the issues with Colorado's across the state,
1:30:47
Speaker 13: you know, we've been traveling the Four Corners and Fort Morgan.
1:30:50
Speaker 13: We've been all across the front Range, talking to folks
1:30:53
Speaker 13: in not only the urban corridor in you know, the
1:30:57
Speaker 13: heart of Denver, but also in rural Colorado and talking
1:31:00
Speaker 13: to farmers and ranchers who are barely able to make
1:31:07
Speaker 13: ends meet given the increased cost of tariffs and everything else.
1:31:12
Speaker 13: Everyone is ready for a change in order for us
1:31:16
Speaker 13: to advance the politics that meets the moment now let
1:31:19
Speaker 13: me just say this. I believe that not only do
1:31:23
Speaker 13: Democrats need to go and build a governing majority right
1:31:26
Speaker 13: flips red seats blue and do the work to win
1:31:31
Speaker 13: those seats, but we've also got to go and look
1:31:35
Speaker 13: at the caliber of Democrats that we send to DC
1:31:39
Speaker 13: from the safe blue states like Colorado. And that's where
1:31:43
Speaker 13: we have this incredible opportunity in a head to head
1:31:46
Speaker 13: challenge against a man who has been in politics for
1:31:53
Speaker 13: over twenty years as mayor of Denver, governor of Colorado,
1:31:56
Speaker 13: and now in the US Senate. Colorado is in a
1:31:59
Speaker 13: unique position because those are we are in a state
1:32:03
Speaker 13: that has never elected a woman to serve in any
1:32:06
Speaker 13: of those roles. We have the opportunity to make history
1:32:09
Speaker 13: through this campaign.
1:32:11
Speaker 6: And it may may a lot to me.
1:32:15
Speaker 5: One of the biggest problems facing this country is the
1:32:19
Speaker 5: yawning kind of wealth inequality. And so as we have
1:32:24
Speaker 5: more and more cent a millionaires and more and more billionaires,
1:32:28
Speaker 5: as we try to kind of address the various crises
1:32:31
Speaker 5: that are facing working people in this country, that leaves you,
1:32:35
Speaker 5: you know, you basically have three different options of you know,
1:32:38
Speaker 5: finding the resources to go about doing that. You can
1:32:40
Speaker 5: kind of borrow money, which then kind of inflates away
1:32:43
Speaker 5: the wealth of the middle class. You can tax the
1:32:47
Speaker 5: kind of middle and upper middle class, or you can
1:32:51
Speaker 5: tax the billionaires. Where where is Colorado at this point
1:32:56
Speaker 5: on a on a wealth tax? Because to me, from
1:32:58
Speaker 5: a political but also a fiscal perspective, if we continue
1:33:02
Speaker 5: to tax work but not wealth, we're going to continue
1:33:07
Speaker 5: just kind of having people fight among each among each
1:33:12
Speaker 5: other and developing new things to fight about.
1:33:16
Speaker 20: Yeah, that's exactly right, and Coloradans are more tuned into
1:33:19
Speaker 20: that than ever. In fact, I would argue that one
1:33:22
Speaker 20: of the policy positions I have that has been the
1:33:24
Speaker 20: most popular with dever voters has been the fact that
1:33:26
Speaker 20: I'm calling for taxing the rich and taxing the ultrue wealthy,
1:33:29
Speaker 20: the billionaires and now the trillionaires included, but also talking
1:33:34
Speaker 20: about the priorities of our budget right now, you know,
1:33:37
Speaker 20: calling for cutting the Pentagon budget by ten percent, something
1:33:40
Speaker 20: that the Congress women voted twice against, even when we
1:33:43
Speaker 20: were in the middle of a pandemic and we're sorely
1:33:45
Speaker 20: in need of those resources. Making sure that our budget
1:33:49
Speaker 20: is actually in line with our values and in line
1:33:51
Speaker 20: with our priorities and guaranteeing healthcare and housing and nutritional food,
1:33:56
Speaker 20: and public education and public transit to the people of
1:33:59
Speaker 20: this country is paramounts, and instead we are sending billions
1:34:03
Speaker 20: and billions of dollars abroad to fund genocidal wars. It's unacceptable,
1:34:07
Speaker 20: and the voters of this district are very, very, very
1:34:11
Speaker 20: ready to see leadership who's actually going to call out
1:34:14
Speaker 20: the people who are responsible for the widening inequality in
1:34:17
Speaker 20: this country and in our economy, because ultimately, I think
1:34:20
Speaker 20: where Democrats have failed in being able to meaningfully turn
1:34:24
Speaker 20: out working class people is that we have failed to
1:34:27
Speaker 20: actually call out who's responsible for the collapsing economy and
1:34:33
Speaker 20: the way that those people have been attacking our democracy.
1:34:35
Speaker 20: And those are the billionaires in the corporations who kept
1:34:38
Speaker 20: our prices high, who burned our planet and are profiting
1:34:40
Speaker 20: from genocide. And when you take money from these billionaires,
1:34:44
Speaker 20: from these corporations, you are holding yourself accountable to them.
1:34:48
Speaker 20: And that's why we have to make sure that in
1:34:50
Speaker 20: every primary, at any level of office across the country,
1:34:54
Speaker 20: that we are only giving our votes to the people
1:34:57
Speaker 20: who are running grassroots, people powered campaigns. This campaign is
1:35:01
Speaker 20: supported by over eight thousand individual donors with an average
1:35:04
Speaker 20: donation of fifty bucks. Because I'm not running to represent
1:35:07
Speaker 20: mightied interests. I'm running to represent the people of this
1:35:09
Speaker 20: district and working people who have been trying to get
1:35:13
Speaker 20: by for too long and deserve not just to get by,
1:35:15
Speaker 20: but to actually thrive.
1:35:17
Speaker 5: And last thing for both of you, not to put
1:35:20
Speaker 5: you on the policy spot here, but there's currently a
1:35:22
Speaker 5: bill in Congress by Don Bayer over in the House
1:35:26
Speaker 5: and Chris van Holland over in the Senate that introduces
1:35:30
Speaker 5: a significant tax cut for working people and pays for
1:35:35
Speaker 5: it with a star tax on millionaires. If I were
1:35:37
Speaker 5: writing it, I'd throw in a wealth tax on that too,
1:35:40
Speaker 5: not just taxing income, because the wealth is really where
1:35:44
Speaker 5: the money is. But there's also some pushback in kind
1:35:48
Speaker 5: of progressive circles that say that you shouldn't cut taxes
1:35:51
Speaker 5: on working people because cutting tax.
1:35:53
Speaker 6: Across the board is wrong at this moment.
1:35:56
Speaker 5: And also everybody kind of you know, you undercut the
1:35:59
Speaker 5: idea of you know, support for taxation if everybody isn't
1:36:03
Speaker 5: paying in. I think that's absurd. I think people don't
1:36:07
Speaker 5: like paying taxes, and if you cut their cut, working
1:36:10
Speaker 5: people's taxes a little bit. They're not all of a
1:36:12
Speaker 5: sudden going to say, well, I used to like the
1:36:15
Speaker 5: idea of taxation, but now that I'm paying a little
1:36:16
Speaker 5: bit less, No, not so much anymore. But so, Julia,
1:36:21
Speaker 5: to start with you, Chris van holland Candy, the general
1:36:23
Speaker 5: idea that you want to shift the tax burden upwards
1:36:27
Speaker 5: and reduce it on working people. The details obviously can
1:36:30
Speaker 5: be you know, worked out down the road. But where
1:36:33
Speaker 5: are you on that in that debate among the tax
1:36:36
Speaker 5: on tax policy.
1:36:39
Speaker 13: Is what is absolutely crystal clear is that we need
1:36:44
Speaker 13: to reflect ensure that our tax code reflects the reality
1:36:49
Speaker 13: in this country where billionaires, brillionaires and the corporations need
1:36:55
Speaker 13: to actually pay their fair share. Because look, it's clear
1:36:59
Speaker 13: working people like me, I live in an affordable housing unit.
1:37:02
Speaker 13: This isn't theoretical to me. Working people are. We are
1:37:07
Speaker 13: doing our part. But the reason why there is so
1:37:11
Speaker 13: much dark money being thrown into our political climate, right
1:37:18
Speaker 13: into our elections and into corporate lobbying, is to maintain
1:37:23
Speaker 13: a status quo that lines the corporation's pockets, makes the
1:37:27
Speaker 13: rich richer, and keeps working people paying the tab. And so, yeah,
1:37:32
Speaker 13: while I agree there are certainly details to get into
1:37:35
Speaker 13: in terms of ensuring that our tax policy is reflective
1:37:40
Speaker 13: of the needs of the American people. Broadly, the idea
1:37:45
Speaker 13: of taxing the rich and also taxing their wealth is
1:37:49
Speaker 13: something that I wholeheartedly support, may.
1:37:53
Speaker 5: A lot, what about you, because I agree on the
1:37:55
Speaker 5: superpack point. Anytime I see five million dollars getting dropped
1:37:58
Speaker 5: into a house race or the person doesn't even live
1:38:00
Speaker 5: in that district and like they have too much money.
1:38:05
Speaker 20: They do have too much money, And I think it's important,
1:38:07
Speaker 20: you know, for us, so look at all sides of
1:38:09
Speaker 20: this issue. When we're talking about the poverty wage index,
1:38:12
Speaker 20: which is the floor of taxation in this country, you know,
1:38:16
Speaker 20: it's based on a calculation that's decades out of date, right,
1:38:20
Speaker 20: It's based on the cost of food times three. And
1:38:22
Speaker 20: if the poverty wage index was actually accurate to the
1:38:24
Speaker 20: cost of living in this country today, it would be
1:38:26
Speaker 20: a lot closer to something like forty to forty five
1:38:29
Speaker 20: thousand dollars for a single individual. And so while I
1:38:32
Speaker 20: do there is evidence that American tax payers do find
1:38:37
Speaker 20: pride and paying into their taxes, they do find it
1:38:39
Speaker 20: to be a duty as citizens. We have to make
1:38:42
Speaker 20: sure that our taxes make sense, and right now, I
1:38:44
Speaker 20: think a lot of working people are struggling and being
1:38:47
Speaker 20: are being crushed. I think it's important that we're also
1:38:50
Speaker 20: focusing on the kind of programs that would guarantee things
1:38:53
Speaker 20: like housing and healthcare and intuition free public college, so
1:38:56
Speaker 20: that those social safety nets are there as well. But
1:38:59
Speaker 20: I do think there's something to be said about the
1:39:01
Speaker 20: pride that Americans feel in paying their taxes, but we
1:39:03
Speaker 20: do have to make sure that our taxes are fair
1:39:05
Speaker 20: and right now, the effective tax rate for most working
1:39:08
Speaker 20: people is somewhere around thirty thirty percent, whereas you have
1:39:12
Speaker 20: people like Jeff Bezos and Michael Bloomberg and Mark Zuckerberg,
1:39:15
Speaker 20: we're paying effective tax rates of less than one percent.
1:39:18
Speaker 16: Because of how they've gained the system.
1:39:20
Speaker 20: And when you have the Irs Chief estimating that we
1:39:22
Speaker 20: are losing out on one trillion dollars in revenue because
1:39:26
Speaker 20: of tax evasion and because of the loopholes that we've
1:39:29
Speaker 20: integrated into the system, because of lobbying through these very
1:39:33
Speaker 20: powerful interests and billionaires and corporations. We're missing out on
1:39:37
Speaker 20: a lot of resources that would actually be helping working
1:39:39
Speaker 20: families in this country. And so It's an all encompassing
1:39:42
Speaker 20: issue with a lot of different factors to take a
1:39:44
Speaker 20: look at. But I do agree with you that a
1:39:46
Speaker 20: wealth tax has to be a part of this conversation.
1:39:49
Speaker 20: I mean, I'd want to look a little bit more
1:39:50
Speaker 20: into Ben Holland's bill on addressing this.
1:39:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, and I'm sure you guys agree that
1:39:56
Speaker 5: if we were spending less money on kind of pointless wars,
1:39:59
Speaker 5: people would p I feel better if the money, if
1:40:02
Speaker 5: they saw the money going to help themselves and their
1:40:05
Speaker 5: community and their state and the country, then that's different
1:40:09
Speaker 5: than just seeing it get launched off into a mountain
1:40:14
Speaker 5: somewhere in Iran.
1:40:16
Speaker 13: It is clear that when we are being told as
1:40:19
Speaker 13: the American people that we do have enough money for
1:40:22
Speaker 13: bombs and for ballrooms, but not for healthcare, not for housing,
1:40:27
Speaker 13: not to do the work to hold those corporations to account,
1:40:32
Speaker 13: that something is deeply wrong with our politics. And it
1:40:36
Speaker 13: is part of the reason why I think that the
1:40:39
Speaker 13: Democratic Party has some stule searching and some work to do.
1:40:44
Speaker 13: Over fifty percent of the voters across this state have said, hey,
1:40:48
Speaker 13: a pox on both your houses and are choosing neither
1:40:52
Speaker 13: party but instead registering to vote as unaffiliated voters, they
1:40:58
Speaker 13: get to choose which ballot they vote in in this
1:41:02
Speaker 13: upcoming primary. And you know, for a long time there
1:41:05
Speaker 13: has been this idea that, oh, unaffiliated voters are more moderate,
1:41:10
Speaker 13: they are more centrist, we need to cater to them
1:41:14
Speaker 13: and not ask for too much. What we're finding as
1:41:17
Speaker 13: we're going and talking to Colorado's across the state is
1:41:20
Speaker 13: that no, they are more progressive than what the Democratic
1:41:24
Speaker 13: Party has been serving them and are hungry for change,
1:41:29
Speaker 13: are excited to vote for someone who is a battle
1:41:32
Speaker 13: tested progressive who has done the work both organizing out
1:41:37
Speaker 13: in community and in the state Senate in order to
1:41:42
Speaker 13: upgrade the caliber of leadership that we send to d
1:41:45
Speaker 13: C from Colorado.
1:41:47
Speaker 5: All Right, Well, if the intention of canceling those rallies
1:41:52
Speaker 5: was to kind of suppress attention to the campaigns, I
1:41:54
Speaker 5: think it kind of backfired over the past several days.
1:41:57
Speaker 5: With day Senator juli Gonzalez May lot Caro's election is
1:42:01
Speaker 5: June thirtieth.
1:42:02
Speaker 6: Thank you both so much for joining me.
1:42:06
Speaker 7: Opportunities.
1:42:08
Speaker 3: All Right, that was Ryan's interview with a lot Kiros
1:42:11
Speaker 3: and Julie Gonzalez. Ryan, how are the polls looking for
1:42:14
Speaker 3: for them?
1:42:16
Speaker 8: Uh?
1:42:18
Speaker 5: May lot looks like down seven something like that. Julie's
1:42:22
Speaker 5: also in the hunt. No, so these are these are
1:42:25
Speaker 5: these are real races?
1:42:27
Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, well this was a packed show.
1:42:31
Speaker 3: Uh just two remaining here right at the end, but
1:42:34
Speaker 3: we wanted to wish you all a happy weekend.
1:42:37
Speaker 4: Anything you gotta gotta plug Ryan before we get out
1:42:39
Speaker 4: of here. No no plugs, all right, folks, Thank you
1:42:44
Speaker 4: so much for listening. This was Breaking Points.
1:42:46
Speaker 3: If you want to join and become a member of
1:42:48
Speaker 3: support our reporting, that's Breakingpoints dot com. If you're having
1:42:51
Speaker 3: any issues with your subscription over at Supercast, that's support
1:42:55
Speaker 3: at supercast dot com.
1:42:58
Speaker 4: And we will see you all on Monday. Have a
1:43:01
Speaker 4: good weekend. Bite