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Episode 2: Joel & Sina on Medical Liberty Part TWO · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beyond Labels.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: And here's your hosts, everyone's favorite farmer Joel Salatin and Dr.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: The information provided is for educational purposes only.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your diet, medications, or lifestyle.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I want to kind of shift the conversation, if I can, and start coming up with talking about just different types of solutions.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, well, one of them, one of the solutions that we came up with was, you know, in looking at the legality of can they mandate things?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it seems as though companies can mandate.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So one solution is to, you know, vote with your feet in terms of changing jobs, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Supporting the companies that will come out and will not mandate this pharma solution.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one thing we're looking at.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing is it appears that they can mandate for employees that are in the office as opposed to remote.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, because of the last year and a half, there's been a lot of possibilities open up for remote jobs.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another area like that we're also looking into, you know, the possibility of working remotely.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the possibility of finding.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So he found one libertarian company.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're now trying to pursue those types of employment as well.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um now somebody came up with a creative approach.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was a professor.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've heard about this this um this case.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was at George Mason University where they mandated the pharma solution.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, did you hear about that one?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so the professor didn't want to submit it to the pharma solution.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: He had already had COVID, and so he put faith in his natural immunity.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, he said that um he was gonna submit an antibody test, and it turned out positive, and George Mason University accepted it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, now he still has to do of submit to weekly testing, but they're letting him go into the university and hold office hours and stuff like that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he came up with that, or he didn't come up with it, but he utilized that solution.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And there's other attorneys out there that are promoting people go out to go out and do this antibody test solution.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: I personally don't like that solution for a couple of reasons.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: One is that it opens us up to a slippery slope, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that opens you up to, okay, well, are you how frequently are they going to require this antibody test?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then what happens if you know you test negative at some point, then there's the case for, okay, now you have to have the pharma solution.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: But also um, it speaks of, in my opinion, arrogance in the scientific community.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because as you said, the immune system is so complex, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even really understand a lot about the immune system.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just like how you said you had that test done on the Joe Rogan show, and it said negative for antibodies, and they explained we have these different immune systems.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: You have that in an immune system, an adaptive immune system.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um just, and we have studies now.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I even so I even have one right here in case this came up.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Example of how the antibody test is not a reliable marker.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this one showed it's called decline in SARS CoV-2 antibodies after mild infection among frontline healthcare personnel in a multi-state hospital network.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was 12 states from April through August 2020.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And what they showed was that um they had these healthcare workers, a lot of them, and then they tested them for antibodies and then they retested 60 days later.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And 90, almost 94% of them had a declining level of antibodies, and almost 30% of the people had complete um sero-reversion, which means a decline of antibodies to a level below the threshold for positivity.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, in almost 30% of them, just 60 days later, they could not detect these antibodies.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So people are bombing onto this and saying, well, see, they don't have long-term protection against these infections, but that is completely untrue.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have the antibodies are just one part of your immune response, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's the quicker response.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Then you have these um memory B cells and memory T cells.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's your long-term response.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the ones that remember so that when if there's another infection that comes, they are the ones that go out and fight that infection.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, and there's other studies um already that have come out.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I'm reading it right now, that there's a recent one out of the US showing that people who were infected, they did generate T cells and B cells against COVID.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um even in, oh, even I found this would be interesting, even some uninfected people, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, based on the test that we're using, that now they're gonna stop using, right, right, because they realize it's not it's not really accurate.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that they show that these people who they can't determine they were infected, they also had T cells response to COVID.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so this might explain why some people are asymptomatic, as we call it, or like some people aren't getting it, or like children aren't that susceptible, because they're saying there's probably a cross-reactivity with other coronavirus infections like SARS and MERS and even the common cold, they share some of these similarities in this, you know, T cell-mediated response.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, my point is um, if you're going for this antibody test to try to like save your employment or whatnot, um I don't think that's accurate.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's a slippery slope for us to go down for more testing down the future.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not antibodies are not the end all be all, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So just because you tested negative doesn't mean you didn't have it and you weren't exposed, just like with you.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think it's just really opening us up to more mandates and more control over our bodies in the future.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think that's actually a good solution.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's more of um at this point, try to educate as many people as we can, you know, with these with these studies that are coming out and um and vote with our feet, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're voting with our feet in terms of companies, um, which companies we're going to um you know sign on with, and um also vote with your feet in terms of states.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we've been watching now, I from what I have learned, states are able to mandate vaccines.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I've been reading this in different um law, you know, like law web legal websites, and they're saying there's already a precedent set for this.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they're saying that states can do it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're doing is we're following the states and seeing what they are doing, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Which states are standing up against it and which aren't.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um one of the states, and so we're keeping this mental checklist, if you will, of you know, which state, if we needed to, where could we move, you know, um and support that state and be with those like-minded people.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So there's this one, um, so Montana is in the lead at this point in our mental checklist.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the governor actually issued an executive order, it's number 7-2021, executive order prohibiting vaccine or uh passports.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it says um it talks about how it's all voluntary and will not be mandated in Montana.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he's actually gone further to forbid any department, agency, board, commission, or other executive branch from producing, issuing, or funding one of these passports.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's this whole long executive order.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm obviously not in favor of executive orders, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's for me that's government overreach, but the but uh apparently some states can do it based on their own, presumably based on their their constitution.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but my problem with the with the mandate or the executive orders is what happens when somebody else gets in office and then they just do another executive order.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna move again?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so these are all these slippery slope things, not libertarian supported solutions.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm just sharing this is what we've come up with so far and what we're watching for.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what are your thoughts?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, well that that was that that was a great kind of a a bullet list there.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I would just say a a couple things.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um one is that that I I think this is a this is a situation where you can run but you can't hide.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and if you if you think that you can run away from this, uh you're probably not gonna, you know, it's gonna it's gonna find you somewhere.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I really believe that this is bigger than a locality you you can run but you can't hide.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you're right, uh you know, you can you can subject yourself, I mean, to to a to a government, to a state that seems to be fairly open right now, and then there's a change of administration and suddenly you know things things change a lot.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I I think the solutions are going to be more localized.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh let me address that in a second, but um the the other kind of overarching idea that I have here is that this this just shows how how people we make decisions based on emotions, not on science.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that that's uh that's a horrible slam to a scientist, but but the truth is our the the the truth is that our emotions are you know you can call it your worldview, paradigm, whatever, but but your your your emotional you uh is a screen for what data you will believe.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how else the the the inconsistent data coming out, and of course this isn't the first time it's happened.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it happens in all sorts of of cases.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one person looks at weather data and says, we're all gonna, you know, we have we have 40 harvests and we're all gonna be crispy critters and dead in climate change.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Another person looks at the same data, says, look, you know, uh, we're all gonna freeze to death in a hundred years.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, uh, you know, how we how we view how we view the world and and you know our own uh emotions really do affect um what what the data that we believe.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know if if you could actually convince people with data, um, we'd have a really different world.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we you you can't convince people with data.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, it doesn't mean data isn't important, all right, but I'm just suggesting that um that emotions rule the day.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm gonna suggest is, you know, we had uh recently we had the rogue food conference here at Polyface, and so this was an assembly, this was an assemblage of our speakers were all people who have either gone to jail, been threatened with jail, or or uh or figured out how to not go to jail, um from from doing uh fringe uh circumventive type food transactions with their neighbors and their communities.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if there was one overriding theme from the entire day-long litany of speakers, it was this you can only win these in community.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You you don't win these if you're alone, that's when the government can pick you off.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's when an employer can pick you off.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: If if if if you if you are alone, uh you will be picked off by the system, or whatever, or that system's public, private, or whatever it is, you'll be picked off by the system.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so so you need there is strength in numbers.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: There, there you need community around you.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So at your at your workplace, you need to be uh aggressively finding those people who um who disagree with the you know the the mandate protocols and band together and uh and go in as a group of 10 or 12 or 15 or 20, um as a group.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly when that you know boss or that CEO is faced with 20 or 30 or 100 people in the case of a you know of a big outfit like Amazon or Google, uh, you know, if if if 500 people walk in and say, um, you know, we're gonna hand in our resignation um you know next week if if we don't get some relief, that that has a that has an effect.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I know there's a um well and and and then and then everybody you you you essentially um agree to agree to to a plan of action, whether whether it's um you know uh just banding together and and uh as you said vote with your feet, or whether it's being vocal, um vocal in social media or newspaper or holding a press conference, uh, you know, there's no reason why the CEO has to be the only one who holds a press conference, you know, a group a group of 50 disgruntled people.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look look look at how few people in unions are actually standing out there with picket signs and they get, you know, they get 20% raises when you know 10 people stand out in front of the building and and and and cause a ruckus.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so um and so uh the the the idea of of being aggressive about finding your tribe, finding your community, so that you're not alone, you're not being picked off.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what protects the gazelles, uh the the wildebeests against the lions, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is that it's it's a herd.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe there's something to be said for herd immunity.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: It even includes you know protecting yourself from lions.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I um so one of the things that we're seeing here is a is a veritable tsunami of people uh moving into homestead small acreages where they can have a garden.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: They can um there's a kind of intuitive understanding, I think, among those of us who who don't uh bow at the whatever the you know uh the diktats of whatever the orthodoxy of the day is, um, that that if things go down, it's safer to be in the country, not in the city, or or you know, to have to have a a buffer, uh, uh, a buffer in your life, a buffer around you.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um in fact, just yesterday I spent uh a couple of hours with a lady who uh fled Asheville, North Carolina.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's got you know grandkids in Richmond, but she didn't want to go move to Richmond, she wanted to get out of Asheville, and so she ended up coming up here and bought like a you know 20-acre homestead.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: She had me come over and brainstorm with her, you know, some of the things that she could do.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and we sat on a porch there and she said, she said, you know, when you're in the in the city and there's the sirens and the horns and the and and the traffic and the the insatiable frenzy and and and and hectic uh schedule of the city.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I'm convinced that the average person has no idea what what their body is going through in that in that urban, you know, that urban life, that urban life, that urban setting.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And she and she said, I I didn't realize it for me either until I came out here.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I sit on the porch, it's quiet.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I hear the birds, I see a deer come in the yard, I you know, uh, and and uh and and she's got her little greenhouse there.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: She's canning tomatoes for the first time.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's doing some cool stuff.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and what she's doing is she's taking the reins of her own her own con she's she's she's creating her own context.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that um that with all this that's going on, we need to be aggressive, creative, and and persistent about creating a a new life-affirming, um, noble uh um context for ourselves.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so I you know, if if you're in the city and you can't move, I get it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, find other people that that that that believe like you and have them over to dinner and and develop relationships.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's where community starts, is in relationships.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead of you know uh investing in Netflix, cancel your Netflix subscription and have a have a friend over for dinner, you know, uh once a month.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: In a year, you'll have 12 new friends and and and and this is the way you develop this um this resilient community that that that makes you feel not alone.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we need to be uh aggressive about not feeling alone.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um I mean what what's the single biggest thing that people do in in um you know in confinement situations to break you?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: They put you in isolation.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And with this COVID thing, um, what have we done?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: We we have done everything almost culturally possible to isolate people, to isolate ourselves.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the people that are that are paranoid of this, um, of course, preach isolation even more than anybody.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and isolation feeds paranoia, isolation feeds um, you know, feeds monsters under the bed, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, you know, when you have a sleepover with kids, you know, who's ever had a sleepover with kids?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got you got five kids up there in your daughter or your son's uh a playroom, they don't come running into your into your bedroom uh concerned about the monster under the bed.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, that never happens when five kids are there, it only happens when there's one in the room and they're looking at the shadows on the walls and they're right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, I'm uh I'm I'm going on, but this this relational thing is it's real, you know, it's it's community, and and you have to invest in it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have not been investing as a culture, we've been investing in individuality and and and and and go forward on your own and express your own choice and your own, you know, identity and whatever.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's a that's fine, but there's a there's a um there's a tension there, there's a flip side, and that is you know, developing your relationships, your community, your tribe, so that you are so that you feel um affirmed and encouraged by people who share your values.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And now um it's heading towards, or if we continue down the path that we're going on, it's heading towards segregation and punishment, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Segregating these two classes of people now, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is now another label in our society, the pharma solution supporters and the ones who are not doing the pharma solution, right?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um, this is another thing that we've been watching with you know the elections, just different elections coming up, particularly here in Virginia, with our in November the governor election coming up.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I don't know if you saw this, but I wrote down this quote to share with you the Democratic candidate McCullough.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is actually what he said.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: We want to make it hard for people to get on planes or go to movie theaters.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're not going door to door, but you make life difficult.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really what they're trying to do, is or at least that's what he wants to do.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I've and others are following in this foot in his footsteps.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that they want to segregate us.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just like Delta, they're like, okay, that's fine.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: If employees don't want to get the pharma solution, then we're gonna add, I think it's like$200 onto your insurance premia, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's another punishment, it's a tax, another punishment.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the this is the the I yeah, yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I wonder if Delta will add$200 a month to the uh to the employees that are that are uh morbidly obese or have sugar diabetes or you know, or or drink drink uh drink Coca-Cola or eat you know, eat McDonald's or whatever.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, name your you know uh uh name your thing.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you know and I know that that there is absolutely no data to support an increased risk of health care costs from employees who haven't taken the pharma solution at Delta.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know there's no science.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's absolutely no science to show that that group of employees is gonna cost me more and You know, look, see, if I were a betting man, I would bet that that sector of employees actually costs less because they are not listening to orthodoxy.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: They are taking personal responsibility and they're they're whatever, their their lives are different.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I I would I would put money on this if I if there was a you know if there was a way to to game this, I'd put money on the fact that those employees actually will will cost Delta less in healthcare than the ones who take the pharma solution.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I certainly think that there's at least a case to make for that argument in in the long term, right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh there's already scientist many, many top scientists who have warned that this this pharma solution may in fact lead to more autoimmunity down the road.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, uh, you know, and I don't know if you saw the the the man who won the Nobel Prize for his research in HIV, who, you know, of anybody, he would have some knowledge about this particular um VIRUS because you know it has a similar segment on it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you saw that, but he came out early on and and still holds that belief that you know he's like, I'm not getting the pharma solution.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's actually, he thinks it's that those people who got the pharma solution are the ones that are producing these new variants that we're seeing.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's still convinced.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: He said that he will be proven right in time, he's gonna be proven right.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I agree with that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but my point is like, uh I think it's great we do need to form like these tribes and social networks so that we don't feel alone and so we can stand up in numbers, you know.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but um at the same time, they're doing that tactic, or they're gonna start implementing some places already have that tactic of segregating us and punishing us.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you can't go here, you can't go there, you can't like there's um uh I think it was it's a hospital near um Dallas, I think.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was Dallas in Texas that was saying, well, if we get any more cases of the Delta, then um you're not gonna be able to have an ICU bed unless you've had the pharma solution.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: So they're even denying, you know, hospital care.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one of my uh someone I know got a letter from her health care uh provider, her primary care provider, stating that if they didn't comply and get the pharma solution, she was no longer gonna be one of her patients, you know, kicked her out of the practice.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we're fighting this on multiple fronts, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but see but Cena, the the the light, the light for that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's horrible.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I get that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about what these things never happen in in complete um in sterility, you know.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they they they they spawn a new set of innovative uh solutions.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so what will happen, what will happen is what I call a parallel universe.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we need to be building our parallel universe.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and so so that there are absolutely doctors.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's one right here in Canada County that advises his patients not to get the pharma solution.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so guess what?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: You need to change doctors, you know.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and we need to patronize the the health caregivers, the educators, the school, you know, that this is why we were so excited to launch the polyface gatherings this year, you know, when all the hotels and conference centers started getting all screwy and weird.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Said, well, if you want to get together, come here.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and the the the um the embrace of this has been fantastic, uh, of organizations, outfits, people that want to get together, uh, and and do it without a bunch of you know uh brujaha uh of the Orthodox uh protocols.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so so I think that we're going to see uh just a a uh whatever uh an upswing uh uh um a response a response from the unorthodox community.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, you know, maybe we're not maybe we're not 60%, maybe we're not a majority in the country, but listen, we're not 10% either.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're like uh what 40%?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well listen, there's a lot of businesses that can survive and thrive with 40% of the population.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's kind of like kind of like um uh my mentor Alan Nation.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: He was he spoke at the National Cattlemen's Beef Association one year.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And of course he started the Stockman Grass Farmer magazine.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um and and he he told me that uh those guys there poo-pooed him and said, Oh, come on, uh Al grass finished beef could never could never uh be more than 20% of the entire beef market.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Alan said, Well, let's see, 20% of$500 billion.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he said, a lot of farmers can make a good living at 20% of$500 billion.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I think that's we need to look at this.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: We need to look at this as um, there's a lot of opportunity here for um uh you know for serving um outside the camp and for doing things that are uh unorthodox uh in the marketplace, in the service space.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um look what happened to Chick-fil-A.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Look what happened to Chick-fil-A when they took that stand about marriage, one man, one woman, and and they were they were vilified, crucified, the press tried to tear them up.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I had dinner with three of the Chick-fil-A vice presidents, not you know, like two years after that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: They were actually looking at a at a pastor chicken.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't happen, but anyway, I had this conversation with them, and they told me, they told me that that that was that like doubled the company's sales because all the conservatives came out to support them.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so we need to not bury our heads in the sand, we need to not go to our caves, we need to not, you know, uh curl up in a fetal position and not come out.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, we need we need to take um um uh aggressive, proactive positions, find our tribe, develop our alliances, patronize the businesses that aren't out, you know, uh uh crazy, and and and um and develop our parallel universe.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: It what's wrong with a parallel universe?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a lot of them over the years.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's build another parallel universe.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I love that idea.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my um my concern is that you know, when government tries to come in and um force or manipulate companies, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and they have this model too with with pediatricians, for instance, you know, where they'll they'll um you can like cut off insurance for certain pediatricians that don't haven't met the you know requirement for the number of patients in their practice that have been given the pharma solution.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you already have all of these punishments that you know have have set the stage on companies.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope that it, my hope is that there are companies like you're saying that stand up and then we can support those companies and maybe make up for any of these, you know, extra taxes they may impose on them or you know, other kind of mandates they come up with.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I think you're absolutely right.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we just like we say the food supply, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: You and I have the same solution, the free market solution, speak with vote with your dollars.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the same with this one, connect with like-minded people and you know, not only right there in your local community, but beyond like a big network and um and vote with your dollars in your where your job is, where you're frequenting places, like, you know, I whatever, like I think Walmart's one of the ones that came out and has mandated this.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: So stop going to Walmart, like, you know, um vote with that dollar.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and I want to wrap up here because you know, it's already been, I've already kept you up quite some time.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: But um how can you think of, and maybe that this is probably going to be an ongoing conversation that we can touch on?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: How can people connect?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like it seems, you know, there's a so many people out there, but it seems difficult to connect with like-minded people.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So aside from like, you know, coming to your um, you know, polyface events and things like that, is there a way, can you think of a way that people can connect and people can find these businesses that they can support?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like what are what are your thoughts on that?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my thoughts are that there is a uh, shall we say a gorilla?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: There there is there is a gorilla um you know sub-community in every in every sphere, uh in every phase of life.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, for example, there's a there's a mother-daughter uh uh medical doctor team, uh, a mom and a daughter.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: They both are MDs.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: They've opened a practice up here in Broadway, about uh 30, 40 miles north of us.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cash only, no insurance.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: You walk in there, it's it's 50 bucks, it's 50 bucks per visit, and it's a flat rate, and you pay cash, and there's there's no front office, there's no nothing, uh and and and and it it's fantastic.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so these are the kinds of things I think that will develop.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so um you know, we saw this in the early homeschooling movement.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we started homeschooling our kids when when they were still in jeopardy of being uh uh taken from us from by truancy offers officers who didn't recognize homeschooling as legitimate, and and parents who uh encouraged it were illegitimate parents.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's was don't ask, don't tell.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: You just you just build, but guess what?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: We knew we uh the the county created a a homeschool organization, right?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and we got together and we encouraged each other, and that's now grown to a big statewide organization that's you know massive, all right.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um but when it when it was started, it was you know, it was just you know a locality that got together.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I would just I would just encourage people be the catalyst.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you don't know anybody, will you be you be the catalyst and and and and you you're gonna you're gonna find unorthodox food producers, educators, medical, you know, medical providers, um and and just start uh what what we say we start opting out, just start opting out of the orthodox procedure.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go to a ball game.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um instead, you know, um uh read to your kids.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Read Swiss Family Robinson, Ivanhoe, read you know, read the Iliad and the Odyssey, okay?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kids love that stuff, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh you don't need to sit there in front of the front of the TV and you don't even have to get Netflix.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just start uh opting out.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, you can make a checklist.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what does the average person spend the most time doing?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the right now the average American male uh between 25 and 35 spends 20 hours a week playing video games.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get the video games out of your house.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: You'll suddenly have time, you know, just eliminate the video games.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody needs a video game, all right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so just start making a checklist of unorthodoxy, and guess what?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: You will stumble in, you will stumble in to other unorthodox people by default as you begin making these decisions.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the only way I know that you're gonna actually um, you know, we're we're we're points of light, right?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're points of light.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so um as we stumble around in this darkness, um uh the the the more the more we whatever separate from the dark, the brighter our light shines, and we're and somebody's gonna see that light.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody's you know, we're gonna have a conversation with somebody, there's gonna be a a glance, a a glance at the at the farmer's market, there's gonna be something, right, that triggers, oh, I think there's a like-minded person.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right, and and if we're not stuck on Netflix and the kids aren't playing video games, we can actually get together with somebody, build a relationship, and then that person knows somebody else, that person.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't have any other solution.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I just know that it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen unless we make it happen.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: It won't happen.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: We can't continue doing everything we've been doing, buying everything we've been doing, investing in recreating and entertaining like we've been doing, and expect a different, a different result.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Einstein, you know, the what the the this the the definition of insanity, right, is doing the same thing and hoping for a different result.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so somewhere we have to start doing different things, feeding our minds with different things, feeding our bodies with different things, and feeding our relationships with relationships that feed us, not relationships that suck us dry.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and as we start down that path, uh we develop, you know, that group.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I could not have summed that up better myself.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So so with that, I think we're gonna end.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, one thing I was thinking is if anybody's you know listening to this or watching the video, if in the comment section, if any of you have solutions or if any of you know any companies who are standing up, you put them in the comment section so the rest of us can see it, and we can start voting with our dollars by supporting these different companies and organizations that are standing up.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be really helpful.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Joel, thank you so much for joining me and talking about this topic.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: I have um other things that I wanted to go in on today, but you know, it's already been quite lengthy as it is.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure this issue isn't going away anytime soon.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: We'll come back and revisit it at some point.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: So any last word or no, no, just thank you, Cena, for being you, taking the leadership and uh and making this happen.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and the world, the world and I owe you a great debt.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for thank you for being you.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh well, thank you for coming along for the ride and uh going along with some of my crazy ideas.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's great.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, until next time, thanks for listening.