Latest / How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva / Domestic Violence Awareness Month: A Survivor’s Story and Where to Find Help

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Domestic Violence Awareness Month: A Survivor’s Story and Where to Find Help · How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. I felt it was
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: important that we have an episode in this conversation out
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: loud with a goal to help survivors feel seen, heard,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and empowered, and most importantly, share resources for legal and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: mental health and wellness help. This episode will include conversations
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: on domestic violence, relationship abuse, and emotional control. Viewer and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: listener discretion is advised. Please take good care of yourselves.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of How Hard Can It Be,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: a podcast for Gen X women walking through midlife's most
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: fantastic bullshit. And I am your host, Diana Maria Riva.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We have today a very, very special episode of this podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And I wanted to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: do this episode because I had more than several women,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: women that I knew, women that I didn't know, reach
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: out and asked if we could open the floor for
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: this conversation. So I did my homework and made sure
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that I could have the guests that I felt would
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: be able to cover as much of this topic full
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: circle as possible in a short amount of time. And
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: we know that it would be typically a more than
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: one episode conversation, but we're gonna do our best to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: share stories, share help, and share resources. So please, let
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: me introduce my guest to you. My first guest is
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a domestic violence survivor. She's here to share her story.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I am very proud to call her my friend. She
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: is an actress, she's a producer, she is a business owner,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: she is a mama, and she is a fierce, fierce woman,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Sara Portillo. Yay!
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: My next guest is an attorney and executive director of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the Survivor Justice Center, which is a nonprofit that gives
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: free legal aid and support to survivors. And her name
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: is Carmen McDonald.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Yay!
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Thrilled to be here. I
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: love having you here. I'm glad you're here. We need
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: you here. And last but not least, also from the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Survivor Justice Center, a licensed clinical social worker with nearly
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: 20 years of experience. And her name is Sylvia Gribble.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for inviting us.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Sara, you and I met several years ago.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't know much about your story, but you have
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: been one that has slowly been coming out of your
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: shell and sharing the story, which is not an easy
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: one to say the least for women to share. You
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: have not been with this person for more than six years.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So you are living safely with your daughters. And they
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: are just gorgeous women.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And that you have done so beautifully by. Sana, you
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: were married to your abuser. Like I said, you're now divorced.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: But your relationship started with him at a younger age. Very.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: How old were you? 16. When you met him.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: When I met him and the first time he put
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: hands on me, I was 16 years old.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I was a baby. So it was pretty... Instant.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Pretty instant. Family enablers knew, and I was told right
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: from the beginning to brush it under the rug.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So from his family, your family?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: More so his, and mine, I really did try to
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: keep it a secret as long as I possibly could,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: because I knew I would be met with a whole
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: lot of hell.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: From whom?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: My family. If you had— About my reality.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: What kind of how would that have been? Would they
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: have come after him or would they have said?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: They would have tried to rip me from him. And
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: at that point, I was young, naive, foolish, and I
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: instantly became a caretaker to him. Not realizing now or
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: back then that I was just, I was a healer.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I always had the big heart. And I instantly just
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: wanted to take care of him. So that dynamic became
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: apparent right away.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: It was never.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, I was like, I'm going
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to take care of you. And I saw that we
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: both had come from some broken, a little bit of trauma,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of trauma in both of our families. So
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: we trauma bonded. Now I know what to name it, right?
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  Speaker 2: But when you're 16 and it's your first love, your
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: first everything, I think it was my first kiss. I mean,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: it was like the passion mixed with the confusion and
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: all of that just took over. And instantaneously, I became
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: his caretaker. And that is what the relationship was based on.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And that is why I stood. I felt innately responsible
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: for his happiness after.
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  Speaker 4: At 16.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's interesting because did you meet,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: was he your age? Did you meet him in high school?
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Same age.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So you met him in high school?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Met in school. Instant chemistry. Handsome guy. You know, I
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: felt young and crazy.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And we were....
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: In love at that age. We were, it was a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: passionate relationship very quickly and it just got swept up
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and turned toxic just as quick. But by then I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: was already enamored, I guess.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: But in the first year of the relationship.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The first time I can remember this vividly, we were
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: shopping with family, his family, and he got jealous about
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: something and squeezed my hand so hard that I, it
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: like stung my hand because I was looking at, I
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: was looking at, somebody was selling jewelry, but it was
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the man behind the desk that he, or behind the
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: table he thought I was staring at. And he squeezed
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: my hand so hard. I was so young. I looked
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: back at his parents and it was just like nothing.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And from that point, You know, it just escalated. It
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: was like, and it wasn't all the time. It was
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: like every six months or so. That's the thing with abusers.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: It's not like on TV where it's like every day. No,
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  Speaker 2: it's a cycle. It's the, I'm so sorry, and then
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: the love bombing. And then six months later, a squeeze
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: of the hand turns into a pull of the hair.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And then from there, a pull of the hair turns
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: into a slap in the face. And by the time
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: we were already 10 years in.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It's sad to say, but I had become accustomed to
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: being treated like that.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: And if I could go back for just a second,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: because I'm still trying to wrap my head around a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: 16-year-old being in a relationship like this and being in
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: so many public places like school. Did this abuse escalate
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: to the point where it was known or noticeable or
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: suspected by any of his friends, your friends, classmates, teachers?
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I think all of our friends knew. And this was
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: before social media, right?
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Where you literally married the guy down the street because
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: there was nobody else to choose. And everyone minded their
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: own business.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: But even the kids, even the other 16 and 17-year-olds,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: nobody had anything to say?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I do recall a few times where a few of
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: his friends were like, hey, you know, tried to hold
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: him back. But he was a bully growing up. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: so everybody was very intimidated by him and very... controlled.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And I think just kind of looked at me like,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that's on you. At some point, you're going to have
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: to open your eyes. Violence was normalized, I think, in
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: both of our families growing up in our situations. And so,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: like I said, the trauma bond was what confused it
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: because He was the person I feared the most, yet
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: when anybody else messed with me, he was the first
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: one to defend me. So that was confusing because all
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I was doing was seeking safety, you know? And that's
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the lifelong journey, isn't it? Seeking safety.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: At any point then, at 16, at 17, at 18,
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  Speaker 1: your parents didn't see, they looked the other way, they
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: didn't recognize, or you just hid?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I hid a lot of it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: How would you hide this?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Long-sleeved shirts. abusers are experts at knowing where to leave marks.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: My hair was constantly being pulled. I mean, that was
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: his favorite thing to do. My hair, throwing me around, 16, 17, 18, 19,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: and it never stopped. It never stopped. After a couple
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: of years of the pleading and the, you know, and
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: we talk about it. That's the part that People don't understand.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I would sit him down and say, what the fuck
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: is wrong with you? I was always Malvi. I've always
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: been this feisty girl. So I never hit him back
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: or anything, but I never went down without an argument.
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, why are you doing this? I love you.
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  Speaker 1: I love you.
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  Speaker 2: Why do you do this? Doesn't it bother you to
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  Speaker 2: hurt me? And he would break down and say, yes,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: it does, and cry. And then it became, how can
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I make you feel bad?
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: It's always that way. Now I'm 48. I'm like, oh,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: my God. But it was a cycle. in a circle
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: of toxicity that I literally could not get away from.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And your girlfriends, did you have a squad?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, after month six, I had no girlfriends. They were
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: all labeled as whores and not deserving of my friendship.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I had to give up my acting. It was just
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: a daily dose of, you are not enough. You will
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: not succeed. Nobody wants to see you on TV. And
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: it just wore down my self-esteem. Clearly, I didn't feel
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: safe enough to talk to my parents for other reasons.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: He was all I had. I was all he had.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And we did this bullshit circle, cycle for 10 years.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: When did you get married then? I got married at 26.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: So you were with him for... A very long time.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nine.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: It was off and on.
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  Speaker 1: Ten years.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Toxic relationship, off and on, off and on, off and on.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: And then at 26, you know, still foolish, thinking, okay, well,
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  Speaker 2: I've invested this time. You know, it's not always bad,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: making excuses back and forth. By that time, I'm like,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: what am I going to do with my life? And
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: it was just like, well, might as well just have
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: kids and get married. Again, this is the days where
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: you married the guy down the street because we didn't have,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: we didn't have, my world was kept so small that
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I didn't know any different.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Now, let me, and let me ask you this. When
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you say that between 16 and 26, there's a big
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: growth spurt in that time. And you say you were
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: off and on, off and on. So on those off
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: points were those moments where you're like, you know what?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I'm done. This is not happening. I'm leaving. Or was
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it him leaving? Who would do the offing? Both of us. Okay.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But by then my self-esteem was so shot that I
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: can look back and say, oh, I just didn't. I
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: really hated myself.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't not love myself. I actually had hatred for
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: my own self. And it was just a sick cycle
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: that I was in.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: What does the shame tell you? What would the shame
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: tell you?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: That you're not deserving of real love. I didn't have
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: good examples of healthy men. Remember, that's always a factor, right?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I do now. I have family that has those hard conversations.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I've sat my dad down and we've talked about things. So, like,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: my family has evolved. Thank God. And we teach others now.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: All of us.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: We're leaders.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: My dad's a leader. My brothers are leaders. But I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: did not have that growing up.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: That's really beautiful to hear. Thank you. That your father
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and your brothers chose a different path, a path of
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: health and wellness. Absolutely. And looking within.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: My dad knows the mistakes that he made, and he
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: counsels other men and counsels veterans.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And he's a community leader. So you said he was
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: a Vietnam War vet, and he had a lot of PTSD. Very, very.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: PTSD was, it ruled our household, and that's a discussion
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: that needs to be had. A lot of the kids
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: of veterans don't realize how much violence is in the households.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: We don't talk about it because we served our country,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: but the kids... The kids are left with the remnants
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: of the war.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Who are now full-grown adults and young grandparents themselves. Yes.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: So for me, walking into danger was like no thing.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I was a soldier's daughter. I was a Chingona, always
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: have been. And I thought, well, I love this guy.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: He's handsome.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: He has a good last name. I'll take it. We
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: can have kids and I'll fix him. Because that was me.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I was always that girl, just like on the picket line.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Come on, let's go. Team player. And so I would
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: literally sit him down like, come on, get better.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: And for a while, he would.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: There was good.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Very good traits to the man. There was. I didn't
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: fall in love with just a straight monster, but he
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: had a lot of trauma from childhood as well. And
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I always, I just never gave up hope. I never
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: gave up on him until I did. And it took
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: me 27 years to get out of that relationship, barely alive.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: At what point did your family finally know that this was?
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: When I had my children.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: That's when they discovered. This is now 10, 11 years in.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And that's when they started getting very concerned. So I
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: have a newborn. I have another baby. I began to
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: hide it from my family. I began to hide it.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I was taking the kids to school, black eye, busted lip, glasses,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and still volunteering in their classrooms. One time I remember
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I had bruises on my arm and I was teaching
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: an art class. And I got so embarrassed because my
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: daughter's classmate, you know, she saw and I'm like, oh
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: my God, this is my reality. This is my reality.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: And at that point, you just really don't want to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: blame yourself. You know, you have to take responsibility, right?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Deep inside.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: But the pride, the ego was in the way. It
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: was all ego. The whole relationship was ego-based, clearly. And
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: at that point, oh, I needed to make it look
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: like we were the perfect family and I was going
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to die trying.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And how did you do that?
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: We only went around the family for family events and holidays.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: We were the matching, you know, I had everybody matching.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: We had our Christmas pictures and everything. But I just,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I did a really good job. I think my acting
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: skills came in. He was actually a better actor than
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I was because we really did make it seem like
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: we were the freaking cleavers. And nobody at that point knew.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: That it was still happening.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And you're carrying jobs and you're, you know.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Everything.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Running businesses.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Homeowners and businesses. Everything.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Beautiful neighborhood. We had everything. We had everything. That's the
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: one thing. He was always an amazing provider with a
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: very good union paying job. Put a roof over our head.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Put my kids in private school. By that point, now
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: it's their security. So my conversations would be like, yeah, Sara,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: your dumb ass didn't leave when you were 16 and
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: now you got these babies and they're provided for? You
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: don't get to make that call. One thing that he
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: did that really just was like, oh, shit. He came home.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And by the way, there was drugs and alcohol in
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: the picture. I have to be honest about that. On him.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: On him. He's a recovering addict. I don't know what
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: his situation is now. But there was drugs involved. But
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: he ripped the blankets off the girls in the middle
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: of the night. this was right before she lost her hair.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And he told, he told them, get the fuck, all
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: three of you get the fuck out of my house.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: He grabbed all of my personal underclothes and threw them
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: into the neighbor's yard. It was like a, just a tailspin.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And then boom, she lost her hair. And from there
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: it was like, okay, what's the plan now? By this
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: time I'm a homeowner, right? I have no, I have
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: my family business, but I have no degree. I have
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: no money of my own. I'm completely financially dependent on
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: this man who did not want me to work. But
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that was not, I didn't complain about not working because
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I did like not working. I wasn't, I was discouraged
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: to finish my education. So it was like, what do
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I do?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So your rock bottom moment was the, him ripping you
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: guys out of the bed and kicking you out of
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the house.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I wish I could say that was the rock bottom moment.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: So what was it? It's crazy.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: It's like a movie. The rock bottom moment was toward
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the very end when he came into the house with
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the gun. He pulled a gun on all three of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: us and I think scared his own self. Threatened me,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: scared his own self, and immediately went into therapy as
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: a way.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: To fix it. Fix it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: But by this time, we're already fed up with his ass.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: My girls are begging me to leave and I'm like, okay,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I'm going to figure something out.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And how old were they?
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, God.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Well, this was towards the end. 14 and... When.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Did she lose her hair?
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: She's 18 now. My baby. I don't know, mid-teens. I
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: can't even, it's like a blur.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Sylvia, you must hear stories like this all the time. Sarah,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know what this is like. I do have
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: other people that I love in my life who have
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: walked through similar stories and I'm just so grateful that
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you're here sharing this so bluntly. And I want to
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: open the floor and include more into your story. Sylvia,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: this is a career path of yours, of working at
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a Survivors Justice Center so that women have somewhere to go.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Was that ever a resource that you knew about? No.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: My mom gave me the first pamphlet, and I was
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: too ashamed to call because I knew. It's not like
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was getting. In fact, that's
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: what his side would tell me. You knew what you
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: were getting and you married him anyway.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I was trying to.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Heal your son.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Like I was doing what women do innately. Nurture, heal, love.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And I was punished for that, too.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I was punished for having a big heart and empathy
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: for a broken boy.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Who was suffering, that's what I saw.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: That's a really heavy way to hear it delivered that
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you were punished for having a big heart. It's such a,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and yet you saw, you have seen examples of this coming.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: So many different ways, but similar themes. The isolation, the
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: two sides to the same coin, right? Like the manipulation, right?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: It looks different now in this generation. We might have,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: you know, if we could go across, like you said,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: we had smaller worlds back then. We can maybe go
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: to the neighbor's house or go to the park or
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: if we still had girlfriends and we're not isolated from them. Right.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I'd like to see so many young people that start
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: off young, depending on their modeling.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: That's a big part of it. And it's like, is
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: that normal? And the excitement of new love and we'll,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: You know, not being able to differentiate an argument from abuse,
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: two different things. But in a young person's eyes, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: what is not spoken of directly. Like you said, you
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: hear things, you see things. But the themes of isolation,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: the themes of manipulation, and the manipulation back in our
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: day growing up was maybe going, if we could, to
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: the neighbor's house or running an errand for family or
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: getting away from that. But now when you think of
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: our young people that come up behind us, they carry
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: their little phones in their hands and it follows them.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: So it's similar, right? The shame, the again, the manipulation,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: the threats, the silent threats. I'm going to post this
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: picture or I'm going to tell them they're going to see.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: that you're not a nice girl.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: So these these values that are placed right. You're good
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: if you stay. You're bad if you leave or you
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: just couldn't handle it or you, you know, whatever. But
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I just want to just echo. I'm just going to
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: put this here. It's never bad. the person that is
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: abused's fault, right? I just want to say it's never
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: their fault. It's the choice that the abuser makes in
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the situation. But without being able to call it out, right?
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Name it. And there's so many different words for the
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: love bombing, right? But that, again, is part also of
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: their shame and their inability, right? To own their peace.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: And that was the other thing I heard, that ownership part.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: carrying so much of it on the survivor's back, right?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: And really none of it, that was not yours to carry, right?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: And it's not for our children to carry. And when
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: they see it, they thought, maybe if I was good enough,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: mommy and daddy wouldn't fight, right? And that look, the
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: look that the children see when the first time they're
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: actually confronted and it registers, something does change in them.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: From then on, they do seek safety.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: And they're now forever going to be scanning their environment.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: So this is the thing, is that, you know, there's
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: a wonderful book, The Body Keeps the Score. And it's true.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: If we don't take care of ourselves, our body and
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: our health and other things about how we function internally,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: it comes up and it taps you on the shoulder.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I can only imagine. that anyone listening to this who
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: might be walking in this today and live, not like
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: in their rear window, could they be... Do women... And men, too,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: because we know that men have suffered from domestic violence
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: What is it about going to therapy that can be
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: a double-edged sword? Or when do you bring your abuser
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: into therapy? When is it about, no, just go get
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: therapy by yourself so you get help? When do you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: invite your abuser? When do you have to read those cards?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Great question.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: You know, there's about three different answers in there that
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: are important, different junctures.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Really four or five. So the first is you're part
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: of a family system. We have an internal system, our
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: own dialogue with ourselves. We have kind of that intimate
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: partnership maybe with our abuser. We have maybe children that
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: are part of a larger family. We have our families
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: of origin. We have our community. We have our culture.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: We have a lot of ideals, right? And all these
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: are systems that are around us. And it's figuring out
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: where is that on-ramp? How do I get help? And oftentimes...
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: It's hard to get help until you're past a certain point.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: But I would say a really good time is when
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: you start wondering, should I get help? Because having a
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: conversation doesn't mean you need to do anything yet. But
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: it's a good place to get information. And it's a
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: good place to have somebody who is actively listening to
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: you in a safe space to reflect back to you.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: How are you feeling about this? Or when this happens?
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: What's happening for you? What are you thinking? Because it's
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: an opportunity to get to know yourself and to figure out, okay,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: what will I take to feel safe? How is it
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: that I don't feel safe? Because when we safety plan,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: it's very individualized, right? The strengths people have or the
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: resources they may, you know, I heard a lot of
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: talk about resources, right? It gets harder and harder. So,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you know, before it's you. And then it's children. And
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: so people always ask, well, why didn't you leave?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: First question.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And really a better question is, why do I stay?
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: And because why you stay are all those values, all
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: those things that are so meaningful to you, right? So
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: having the conversation, no harm, no foul. That's a good
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: time to go. I think it's a great time. Now,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: whether to go with a partner or not, oftentimes people
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: confuse forgiveness, reconciliation, very different than safety.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: God.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: You know, we've had therapy for two years together and that,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: and tell me anything remotely close to what you just said.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: These are all different conversations. And what's particularly important to
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: note about who you see. So whether you go alone
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: or as a couple, your therapist really needs to be
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: somebody that that you trust and that you feel you
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: are understanding and they're communicating in a way that resonates
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: for you or maybe for you and your partner, but
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: first for you, because you're part of that pareja, you're
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: part of that pair, right? And so it's really important
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: that that connection be good. If you ever don't feel
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: like that's working, you have the ability to ask for
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: a different therapist.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think that you have to find a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: therapist that you work well with. I want to pivot
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: for a second, but on the same topic, because I
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: can only imagine that there are those out there who
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: are like, if I go into therapy and I tell
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: this court mandated reporter that I have a spouse that
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: is beating me, when is child protection services going to
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: show up at my door and take my kids? Is
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: this an urban legend? What is the legal safety guards?
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate that you hear that because that's exactly
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: what my lawyer brain, like the healing, sharing your story
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: is so beautiful. And I'm like, let's talk about, let's
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: also sit and talk with a lawyer when you don't know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: because we can advise you. So if a child is
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: exposed to domestic violence, it's considered child abuse.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: We know that children are impacted by seeing it, right?
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: And we want to protect children, but that sometimes comes
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: at the risk of sort of double victimizing a victim
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: because then you're faced with my disclosure could mean I
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: lose my children. So we work closely with the county
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: on what we call preventative legal services, where we can
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: show that, well, we're getting services, you're getting therapy, we
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: can help get a restraining order. So we're already doing
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: the steps to protect that child so that you don't
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: have to be afraid to tell that story. But you're
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: absolutely right that therapists are mandated reporters. And so we
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: also work on trying to change the mandated reporting law
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: to be more nuanced, to say, well, if you're getting
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: services and you're getting support, then we don't need to
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: call that hotline that then sends a police officer to
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: your child's school to pull them.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Out and ask questions later.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and the impact there is more traumatic for a child, right?
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: You have a police officer coming and yanking you out,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: and you maybe had just witnessed something horrible.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: Mandatory reporting has been out for about 50 years. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: I have to say, part of this programming is, comes
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: on the heels of a lot of good research that
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: is showing that when you remove them from their homes,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: that there's also significant harm done, right? Especially from a
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: non-offending parent. And so the switch from mandated reporting to
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: mandated supporting is a wonderful opportunity for us to improve
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: how we go about it. But the other thing we
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: always talk about, you know, in a in a social service,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: legal sort of collaborative environment, is we talk about people
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: knowing their rights. So when you go to therapy, the
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: other thing for anybody listening or thinking about going, say,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: I'd like to really understand what happens if I share.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Because typically, a therapist will go through, I am a
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: mandated reporter. I have to report these following things. They
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: should pause and say, do you understand what that means, right?
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: And what this does, right, whether it's a legal setting,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: and Carmen's going to give you some really great info there,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I know. But what's really important about that is that
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: lets you know within your own therapeutic alliance and relationship,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: it lets you pace what you want to tell when
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: and how you want to discuss it. And what aspects?
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Because it's still your information. And not everybody is ready.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: And the one critical point with mandated reporting is that
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: it doesn't take safety into account. So people's resources are different.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: People's ages, what strengths they have. And we also have
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: data now to show that communities of color are more
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: exposed to mandated reporters because of various other things.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: And the willingness to seek out help is also a
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: systemic thing that people may or may not have a
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: good relationship with those avenues. So within therapy, you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: you might want to, I mean, I would almost say
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: find out your rights first. if you're ready to take
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: that step, same thing as therapy. It doesn't hurt you
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to get legal advice.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I also want to point out the nuances of, and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes not so nuanced, the nuances that it's not always
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: physical abuse. There is verbal abuse. There is mental abuse.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Financial abuse. There's coercive control now. What is it?
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: There's coercive control now as part of the law. So
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: it could be things like The isolation you talked about,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: I was thinking when you shared your story, like, well,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: you're going to stay at home. You're not going to
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: be an actress. You know, I'm going to tell your
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: family that you have a messy household. I'm going to
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: expose your secrets.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: That's a thing? Yes.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, God.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: He video recorded it. I mean, like, that's an actual
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: course of control. It actually is. Because I can be
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: just like, I never said that. I just said you
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: weren't a great actress. You know?
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: I'm going to tell everyone or I'm going to email all.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Of your colleagues this horrible secret. I have a friend who,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: when you talk about coercive control, I have a friend
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: who was threatened by her ex who she was trying
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: to separate from and he didn't want her to leave
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and he didn't want to get kicked out of the house.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And so he made a bunch of Photoshop photos of
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: her face, her head on all these bodies and different
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Sexual positions. And then he was going to post them
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: on a like a do it yourself porn site. And
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: she felt trapped like it was a lie. But how
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think coercive control might have even that's not
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: even a common thing to think about. Like, you know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you can easily just say he's being an asshole. That's right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Well, that goes to a cycle. But yeah, so those threats,
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: like if you leave me, I'm going to do this
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: to you. I'm going to tell your family you have
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: a messy home. I'm going to tell your children you're
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: a terrible mother. I'm going to tell the world you're
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: a horrible actress. I'm going to post pictures of you.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Those are threats.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Those are illegal things to do to anyone and think
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: it's your intimate partner. And the law, domestic violence law,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: has really expanded because what you said, abusers are smart,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: so they might not hit you. They might not do
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: something that is public or obvious. And so the law
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: is really there to protect you from that because when
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: you might choose to leave is when there's often a
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: heightened risk of danger. And so the law expanded to
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: err on the side of being protective and cautious from harm.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's what we need to hear, that is
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the law set up in a way to protect more
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: than a woman really have to jump through hoops to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Really needing to jump through hoops to prove that what
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: she's saying is actually happening.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: They're getting a better understanding of the cycles and the escalation.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: It starts off by name calling sometimes. Other times they
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: don't touch you. They punch the hole in the wall
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: right next to your face. After that, you're in the
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: car with them and you say, I want to get
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: out of the car. And instead they hit the gas
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: and they start driving.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: So none of these things are laying hands. They're controlling.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: So you always have to look at those power dynamics.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And the threats are directly related to something that matters
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: to you. Usually.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Your children, your family, your image, your career.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to call your job and tell them X,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Y and Z.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: And really, we're looking for power and control. And I
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: think the law now is changing. expanded now where they're
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: erring on the side right of caution because they've seen
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: enough of it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And do you think that a victim has should i
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: mean the victim should never be discouraged from coming forward
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: but i do wonder if there are victims who are
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: like i don't have proof and i because i never
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: reported it um how do i you know take a
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: stance now after it's been 10 years what do you
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: say to call anyway? Yeah.
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: I mean, of course.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: What we try to do is, so first, back to
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: the social worker part, our social workers are part of
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: our legal team because we've created a situation so that
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: we don't want any survivor to ever feel like you're
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: going to be punished for telling your story.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: And when you talk to a lawyer, it's confidential.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Anything you tell the attorney, I cannot repeat to anybody.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: And so just like you might go to the asking
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the why, talk to a therapist. You can make an appointment.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: And we talk about sometimes just that first, like a
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: sit with a lawyer for an hour and learn what
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: your legal options are. But you're the decider of how
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: you choose to exercise them because only you know what's
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: going to happen, right? Like you were talking about needing
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: to pay your mortgage. So sometimes our clients have priorities.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: So we can help you understand what your rights are.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: You have a right.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: You could get spousal support, child support, a divorce, a
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: restraining order. Restraining orders include All kinds of remedies, restitution.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: You can change your cell phone, like if it's attached
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: to their phone plan. The problem now, things are so complicated.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Like if someone is going to post pictures, compromising pictures,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: I tell young people, don't ever send anyone a picture.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Don't.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: But now we have AI creating images. There's digital abuse, right?
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: And there's ways to stop that. And I'm not saying
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: it's easy, but we are big on just educating folks
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: on what your rights are and to try to make
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: that part of your journey. And then you could process
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: that with therapy, your tribe, your girlfriends, once they come
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: back to you. And I want to message that, like,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: be patient with survivors.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: In your life.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: There could be plenty of people that are listening or
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: watching the podcast right now And saying, it's not me,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: but it's my niece, it's my girlfriend, it's my sister,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's my brother. What do you say
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to those friends and family in navigating this for them
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: and how they can be of support or help? Definitely
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: be patient and don't blame them.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Ever.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: First thing. Don't ever wonder why they're there. Believe them.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Believe us. What was it? Did you run it? Okay.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: So it took you a while to say something. So
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: when you did, were you met with disbelief?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was met with, well, you're dumb. Not from
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: my family. My family was instantly like, my mom finally
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: just said, if you don't leave, I am going to
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: get those kids and they will be taken from you.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Now my children, my babies are endangered. You know, you
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: cannot break those curses that you claim to be breaking
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: if you are continuing that with my grandkids. So my
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: mom and dad put their foot down. My brothers got involved.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: All my cousins got involved. But I just feel like
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: believing somebody the first freaking time that they say it
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: would eliminate a lot.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: If you have somebody in your life that you suspect
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that this is happening to, how important is it to
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: be mindful of your approach? Do you just show up
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: one day and say, oh my God, it's so great
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to see you. Here's a pamphlet and then walk away.
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: I think you have to think about safety too when
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: you think of how to approach and whether it's safe
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: for them. Like, for example, you might not want to
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: talk about it with an abuser present. Because they're immediately
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: going to. And we do help.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: You'll protect them. I guarantee you. For your safety. For
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: my safety, I protected him.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't let anybody talk bad about him unless I was.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: For my safety. Because I was the one that was
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: going to get it. You know, I covered it up too.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I helped him cover up the lie.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And I see a lot of.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Women doing that.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, but I see through you. Because
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: the thought of a new life. And starting over is
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: often scarier than something you already know, you think you
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: know how to handle.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that?
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: That's what a lot of people, I've heard that before.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Because freedom is actually fucking scary. Living is scary. That's
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: something that survivors don't talk about, but I experience it.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Living is scary.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: What is scary about that in comparison to, what were
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: you able to discover in this?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: The unknown.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: People.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't have friends. I was isolated, you know, and
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I felt worthless. Being told that you can't do this, you.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Can't do that.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: You start to believe it. You're too ugly for TV.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: No one's going to want to see you. Things like that.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: You believe it after a while because it's like, well,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: this person's supposed to be my person, my protector. All
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I was doing was seeking what men are supposed to
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: provide naturally.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: I just got to really screw it up. I love
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: what you just said. You just said, you're supposed to
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: be my person.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a good thing for anybody listening
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: who might be in there. If the person who's treating
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: you the worst in your life is your partner, that's
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: probably a good clue that that's not a good place
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: for you regardless because— the person who gets to be
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: in your presence, no matter what you think of yourself, right? Like,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: even if you have the lowest self-esteem, think about that
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: one person in your life that lights you up, Because
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: they hold you in the light.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: And I just want to circle back to a couple
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: of things because I do want to hone in on, OK,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: someone hears this podcast and then there's the person who's
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: walking through this. They're still in it. There's someone in
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: this listening to this podcast that it's in their rearview mirror,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: but they don't know how to go get the healing.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: The threat isn't over their head, but the trauma is
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: still in their daily wake ups and going to sleep.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And then you have the person who's hearing this podcast
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and saying, I need to say something to my girlfriend.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: So let's start with the first one that we, we
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: will not leave this episode without supplying resources and links.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: But if you're not ready to see a therapist to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: just like, I really love what you said, Sylvia, like
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just because you go, you can just go to a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: therapist and get information. And if they're ready for legal action,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: if they can't get an attorney to Can we find
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: groups like Survivor Justice Center around the country?
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, absolutely. I'm so happy to see that there's
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: more national support for survivors. And it's important now because
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: among our survivors, we saw other types of survivors, not
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: just domestic abuse amongst our group. Many of them were
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: then vulnerable for other things, right? And so I love
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: that there's now a network, right? And there are community centers.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: There are women's groups. There are youth-focused groups now. So
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: there are many of those now, right? So even if
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: you feel overwhelmed, a lot of this is found in community.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: And so you found your community on the picket line.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: But for somebody down the street, it could be even
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: going next door to her neighbor and saying, can I
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: borrow a cup of sugar? Do you have time for
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: a coffee? Or you know what? I'm going to go
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: for a walk. Would you like to join me? That's
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: a good start. And that's all over. There are walking groups.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I would say I would encourage people not to be
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: isolated and not feel like they have to start off big.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Same with a therapist. Go get a consult. But if not,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: go to a YWCA.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Those are all Boys and Girls Club.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Boys and Girls Club. So they have what are called
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: safe spaces for youth. They have the YMCA, YWCA. They
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: have a safe space program for youngsters. Also, I want
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: to speak out for people that have been raised in
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: a faith tradition. Sometimes people will say, oh, go speak
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: to your pastor. Faith is something that does uphold faith.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: individuals as they're trying to figure out what to do.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: But it's important to distinguish. It should never sound like
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: stay in a place that's not safe.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: That is really shocking and then not shocking because there
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: are so many faiths that are based on you stay
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: true to your husband through thick and thin. And if
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: that means that every once in a You know, be
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: a godly woman and stay in the relationship, whatever. Like,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I'm making up the script, but we've heard it. Yes.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: And people make different decisions, right? People say, fine, I'm
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: not going to get divorced, but I'm not living with
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: him anymore.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: And he doesn't need to know where I'm at, and
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: we do a safety plan. And other people are like, no,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: you know. But even within the same faith, there are
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: different communities and congregations, and sometimes people take a more
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: personal approach. I feel most with God when I'm out
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: in nature. But however they choose to express that or
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: rely on their faith, it should never come at the
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: price of harm.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Never.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: For anyone in the family. Yes. Anybody. And so when
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that, like, you can call in and get
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: some consultations or some conversations. Or a hotline. In the hotlines.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: For Survivors Justice Center and centers like that across the country,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: can you do it anonymously? Yes.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: There are hotlines that you can call anonymously. Mm-hmm.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can imagine maybe what the fears are
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: that they're going to get.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: There is the National Domestic Violence Hotline, and they also
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: run a website. And it's in English and in Spanish.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: So if you wanted to safety plan for yourself and
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: you're not ready to go into an office, it'll guide
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: you through just to start thinking about how do I
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: keep myself safe?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: And what are some questions I need to consider? And
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: they also have a project now. I think I'll be
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: sharing those resources for your viewers.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: But they have one for teens as well. So there
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: are many of those that are now national. And for
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: those where abusive patterns intersect with other serious issues, whether
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: it be incest or sexual assault or even the risk
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: of human trafficking. We work with a lot of immigrant
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: survivors who were brought to this country under the guise
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: of a relationship. And it's left them vulnerable in different ways.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: We also have folks that might have differing disabilities, visible
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: or non-visible, and they're reliant on caretakers. And then we
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: have folks out there that are survivors that might have
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: intersectional identities. They may be part of an LGBTQIA, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: community or relationship where, you know, and it's important to
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: get care from people where you feel safe from within
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: your community.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. If you,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: if you are a survivor who finds yourself say in
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: that setting of a hospital and you, you there, the,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the staff there is the doctors, the nurses, whatever are, are,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: are letting you know that we're, we're going to, we're
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: letting the police, we're reporting this. We sense that, you know,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: now you're looking at, oh, my God, here come the police.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Now they're everyone's finding out they're going to know. And
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I've got my children. I wouldn't have like a lawyer
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: on speed dial. No, they this they should have even
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: if they're not prepared to do anything yet. And we're
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: going to give a QR code. that you can take
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: a snapshot of and keep on your person, on your phone,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: tucked in a drawer or whatever, so that if you
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: ever need a list of numbers stat, it's there. If
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: a person finds himself, if a mother finds herself in
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: a hospital with an injury and they are reporting her
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: and now she has to face the police, The first
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: thing as a mother I would want to do is
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: get some kind of legal counsel there so that my
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: children aren't just taken away, that there's no misunderstanding that
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: there's not violence going on mutually in the home and whatever.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: So numbers there that can help on this list or
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: the Survivors Justice Center that could help them quickly get
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: an answer for how they can get some kind of
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: legal aid or protection so that there isn't some kind
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: of misunderstanding that could mean children being ripped out of
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the home.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: You're absolutely right that all of those fears, imagine, will
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: be going through your head. The hospital should work. So
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: we have helped clients who the hospital identifies domestic violence
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: and the person is sent to a domestic violence shelter.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: And we partner with the shelters in L.A. County to
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: provide that legal counseling. So if the system's set up right,
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: and in L.A. we're pretty coordinated, we have partnerships with
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: many of the community-based organizations and shelters to We have
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: pro bono attorneys that review restraining orders that are being
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: filed by advocates to make sure that they're pled properly.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: Because once you get into court, you're dealing with things
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: like credibility and evidence. And so that's where, yes, getting
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: that lawyer early in. And we try to do that.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: We have a huge pro bono panel of attorneys. that
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: will come in and help litigate a restraining order. And
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: all of that is, well, we know what happens if
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: you don't get in the right way. It's like the
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: judges make a first impression, and that is a very
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: difficult one. And if it's always, you're lying, she's lying.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: And they don't really always, I mean, I like to
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: say we've been doing more to educate the bench. And
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: they've been getting more training on understanding the stress response
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: that we talked about briefly and understanding why they may
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: sound like they're not credible, but how trauma impacts their ability.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: And we meet with the court.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: We meet with the judges. We try to do trainings
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: for the court, for the bar associations. Like we're out
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: there trying to educate people. which always goes back to like, believe.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, I like what you said, just believe me,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: believe you.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: So the last thing that I then wanted to hit
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: on the family or friend that's, that is suspecting that
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: this is what's happening. You can take the QR code
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and you, what do you say? Just hold on to it,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: gently share it. What is, what is the best way
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: to approach a loved one? Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: So without judgment, even though you might be like, this
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: guy is the biggest jerk. I mean, I have so
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: many friends that I want to say, like, he's totally
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: manipulating you and keeping you in a cycle. You listen
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: and then you could say, oh, I heard this podcast or, oh,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: I listened to this.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I saw this. I mean.
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: Thank you for using your platform because sometimes it's just
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: seeing someone that you identify yourself in and you might say, wait,
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: this is happening to me. But I would have the
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: resource and yes.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: And you could say when you need help, here's help.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Or let me help you call. Because I know that first.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I like the idea.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: Just call and see what your options are. We talk
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: to people all the time. This is not going to
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: get you what your goal is. So it could just
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: be that you get some orientation to They already moved
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: out of my home, so maybe I don't need to
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: file a restraining order. You might be feeling safe now.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: So our social workers also do safety planning. So we
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: first want to make sure someone feels safe. So I
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: think if you think someone's unsafe, it's sort of that
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: see something, say something.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to them. Yeah.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: There was a big LA Times article that talked about
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: how many women have been murdered that had restraining orders
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: that were denied. And we're meeting with the courts about that.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: So we can't understate the severity. But I heard you
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: say life is scary, but look at you. It is
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: until it isn't.
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: But how you get someone to switch to the other...
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: How do you get them to switch? So, you know,
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: very basic... You have to go back to very basic
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: learning because, remember, your world is kept small, so your brain...
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: There's no room for expansion with an abuser. They keep
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: you in a gilded cage. And I was in a
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: gilded cage. I had all the pretty things around me,
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: but it was a cage. So I put my second
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: grade picture on the mirror. And every day I looked
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: at that little girl, I say.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Listen here. I love that.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to self-abandon. I promise you, I will
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: not self-abandon. Everyone has failed you, but I will not
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: fail you. I will not fail you. So I imagined
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: her as an actress, as a writer, as a healthy,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: happy woman, like holding my own carrot, right? And it
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: was like, be come. That's my be. Now take one
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: step to come. So that's what I would tell survivors
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: at home, because I know you're there. I see you.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I know you're there. I know you're in the pickup line.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I know you're at church. I know you're baking for
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: your families. And you're hearing this. Be come. And just
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: imagine the highest version of yourself and take one step,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: just one step every day to come closer to her
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: and eventually you'll meet. And that's where I'm at now.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: And it shows. And I love myself.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I love myself. Thank you.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: I cannot thank you ladies for this incredible opportunity. Discussion.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: It's layered. It's nuanced. It is most certainly not black
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: and white. And there are, you know, five more episodes
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: that we could do about this case scenario and that
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: case scenario and a variety of stories. But the fact
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: that you were so willing, Sarah, to come in here
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: and share of yourself and share the most vulnerable parts
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: of your life. that were clearly full of shame and
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: guilt and heartbreak, and yet see you here, share it
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: from a place of self-pride and dignity and the greatest
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of all, self-love. that we can all witness it and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that you're here for us to witness it live and
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: in person versus another result. So the world is grateful
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: you chose you and that you committed to yourself enough
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: and got the help that you needed so that you
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: would be here and so that most of all your
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: daughters could see you become who you are because it
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: is breathtaking.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Sara. Thank you, Sylvia. Thank you, Carmen. Thank
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you so much for having us. Of course. And again,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: we will put up this QR code right here. Take
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: a screenshot of that and keep it for yourself or
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: keep it in your pocket for someone else. And also
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: we will have a link to this QR code in
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: our captions. Just keep it and save it for the
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: right day. But we hope that this served in some
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: way helpful and know that you are not alone. How
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: hard can it be? With Diana Maria Riva is a
• 50:37
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