Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Karina Cardenas on Exploring Children's Literature (E62)
Transcript
- Tom Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest this week is Karina Cardenas. She is the curator of the Arnie Nixon Center for the Study of Children's Literature at California State University, Fresno. My alma mater loved me some Fresno State. Welcome Karina. Karina Cardenas: Hi, how are you? Tom Nixon: I'm good. How are you? Karina Cardenas: I'm doing pretty good, I'm in my office. Tom Nixon: that's all good. So don't we start with your career trajectory? How did you get to here? Karina Cardenas: Well, like a lot of people in libraries, you start as a student going school at a library. my first job was ⁓ at UC libraries as a facilities student assistant. But I got to ⁓ really see the behind scenes of a lot of different departments and ⁓ I even got to see like the archives and that was one kind of, I started my curiosity with And I went into my master's program in history, ⁓ I a student assistant position at Cal State LA's ⁓ special and archives. And yeah, just continued my skills with working in libraries. I really enmeshed my own original research with the archival. ⁓ tasks I was doing, so it wasn't just a job to me, it was really something I very felt passionate about just in my trajectory. And my mentor, the head of special and archives at Cal State LA, Azalea Camacho, really motivated me to go into libraries and do the library school program get my master's in library and informational science. And ever since ⁓ started working at Fresno State's Special and Archives for around and a half years. And that was that a position that made me really learn more of the ins and outs, the intricacies ⁓ of being a full-time member of a library. And was working on my degree as I was doing it. So I was getting a lot of hands-on experience. ⁓ and got my degree ⁓ now I'm in this current position as the Special Collections Librarian ⁓ the Arne Nixon Center. So I've basically worked ⁓ my from the bottom to where I'm at. Tom Nixon: Nice. So sort of a side note, I started my library career just down the road from where you started yours. ⁓ I as a student assistant in the then Chapman College Library. Yep. Yep. ⁓ Now Chapman University now looks very different, but same kind of thing. Karina Cardenas: ⁓ in Orange County in the city of Orange. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Nixon: So you are at the Arnie Nixon Center for the Study of Children's Literature. does the center do? Karina Cardenas: So we are a special little library. a little bit different from, so my background is a lot often with campus history, university history. So this special collection is just children's literature. So our target audience is students from our education program that are wanting to be teachers, with young adults or children. Also folks that are interested in writing. literature, so a lot of students from English ⁓ art history as well. But we service everyone, so whatever your needs are in regards to children's literature. I conduct tours, course instructions for our teaching faculty here on campus to really engage with them using the collections or applying some of the themes I find in the collections in the classroom. So often, banned books is a common thing that's being taught in coursework. So I'm often doing class engagements in regards to the banned books we have in our collection. We also provide research services. So you don't necessarily have to know what book you want. So if you're doing a project for your personal projects or even a homework assignment, we can assist you with finding some good resources. And another aspect is we are a quiet study space for anyone here on campus. So basically trying to service the public services and the technical aspects of the collection. That's basically what we, our goal is to always promote children's literature, historical, modern, which means that I'm ⁓ always actively ⁓ and keeping of books that are catching a lot of attention in the awards circles And also working with donors, private donors who have interesting books to add to the collection scope. Tom Nixon: mentioned banned books. Given the rise in banning of books in libraries and has that affected your work? Karina Cardenas: I would say banned books conversations is something ⁓ I ⁓ not to until I was here currently in this position, but it's not, I would say not being impacted the way public libraries or state libraries are being impacted because I don't have those checks and So, you know, I've heard of stories from public libraries that can't promote banned books week because it's not. a state or a federal holiday. sometimes there's a lot of brackets or hurdles people have to do to promote the issues with censorship in books. So I try my best to continue talking about banned since I have the freedom to. And Arnie Nixon, our founder, left us with an endowment. So that endowment allows me lot of freedom to acquire banned books ⁓ or books that might not be purchased at another library. Yeah, hope that makes sense. ⁓ Tom Nixon: No, that absolutely makes sense. nice to have funding that isn't so reliant on government, sure. Karina Cardenas: Yes, yeah, I'm very lucky. I mean, it's very rare to have, you know, to not be in the target. But I think I also want to mention that Arnie collected books. He didn't know we're banned, right? So he was just buying books in the 50s, 60s, 70s. And this was before the term banned books was coined. So he was just very interested in collecting diverse stories, bilingual stories, perspectives of all types of children. So because of that multicultural diverse scope, a majority of them are flagged as banned now, which ⁓ is an interesting assessment on my part because it really shows that he was really geared by his philosophy, which is that every kid should be able to see themselves in a book. Tom Nixon: Hmm. was Arnie Nixon? Karina Cardenas: Arnie is, would say he had a long story with West Coast, but he was originally from the Midwest, so he was born in, I always get it, either South Dakota, so he was born in South Dakota in a very small town, and ⁓ then basically won spelling bee, or he competing in a small town spelling bee and a principal. ⁓ from the school he would later attend recruited him. At that point, he didn't even see education as a possibility because he did not grow up with a lot of, you know, he didn't grow wealthy or anything. But yeah, he was motivated to go into school because someone saw something in him and he went to, it's Ellendale Industrial School. it was the schools that were like high school and then it would also. ⁓ transition you into getting a bachelor's. he got his education degree. So he always wanted to teach as a teacher. So he started as a school teacher, then again, went up the ranks ⁓ and then ⁓ ranks even educationally work-wise. So he then got his master's in education and then he also got his doctorate in education. And as he was doing that, he was also working as a school teacher. ⁓ Then he moved to Washington and worked with Macaw reservation, so indigenous students, and came to California, working in Tulare, which is in the Central Valley where Fresno is also a part of. And yeah, and stayed. Tulare, he got recruited into Fresno, ⁓ and that's where he up retiring. But he has a very long legacy with the Valley, and Really his interest in storytelling and really motivating students ⁓ children to love art of reading and also art of storytelling was very important to him. on campus, he played many hats. So he was the director of our extension services, which means to, you know, for our more rural students to have access to education, which I think is very important to me. And... Yeah, and I think he just really, really, and this is not his words, but I see it in his life, but think he really saw himself in a of the residents in our community here in the San Joaquin Valley, because he also from rural upbringings and lack of access to education. yeah, he was very motivated for accessibility, for students to thrive, learn lifelong, and lifelong learning, right? But he basically, just from all his adventures of traveling and storytelling across the valley, he collected up to around 22,000 books. And that was kind of the, I would say the foundation of this library. So those 22,000 books were the first massive donation for the library, and now it's grown into around 60,000 books or so. Yeah, but... Tom Nixon: Mm-hmm. Wow. Karina Cardenas: But he was a wonderful, started as a teacher, principal, director, and then a director, professor on campus. But still, he always found his way into the classroom, so he would still often be sought after for elementary school students to read. So very humble, and yeah, just a very giving person. I I still hear wonderful stories about him all the time from know, older students of his that took his last classes he retired. Yeah, so like, I think one of my favorite anecdotes is a student telling me that their final was to do a puppetry, like storytelling workshop. So how convincingly can you, can I believe that you're, that this is not your hand, right? So that, that's very important, right? For your child, children's information, literacy development, and like to learn to really immerse themselves into a story. So. Tom Nixon: Right. Karina Cardenas: He took things like that seriously, like an art. it really impacted educators here in the Valley. So I see letters in the archives where it just like, I was a student of his and now I'm a principal here. Or I'm a teacher and I apply things that he taught us in the classroom, in my classroom. So his legacy is a little bit quiet, but I see it in ⁓ the Tom Nixon: suppose I should mention that as far as I know, I am not related to him. My family is from... You know, families both come the Midwest, but different Midwests. Karina Cardenas: I know, we might have to do some digging. Mm-hmm. and he was Finnish, you are Finnish as well. ⁓ his name was originally Nixon. I think through the immigration process, they've simplified the names a bit. So I think the full name was Nikunen, like N-I-K-U-N-E-N. Yeah, so, but yeah, it's interesting because yeah, he was Finnish, first generation Finnish. So he spoke Finnish as well. Tom Nixon: interesting. That makes sense. if you go back far enough My family is from that neighborhood, but not from Finland. An X is, I go, I masters in linguistics. So an X is an odd thing to have ⁓ a name. ⁓ you almost always know that somewhere your name was spelled differently, right? But mine was spelled in a different direction than his. So what does your typical work day look like? Karina Cardenas: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I I don't, mean I would say I have a non-typical librarian job, but wouldn't say it's chaotic. But I have the center open for the public part of my so a lot of it is having the door open and making sure that if there's walk-ins we assist them. It ranges, so sometimes know it's a professor that ⁓ has a specific book mind. Or more commonly it's students that or curious about what we do. that's my role is that to make them feel comfortable to ask all the questions they want. sometimes just the walk-ins. I have a few projects going on. So that means project management. So checking in ⁓ on how our projects going. One of the projects being is the Arnie Nixon Center has a exhibit on Arnie's legacy. and we're working on digitizing it, so making it a digital exhibition so if you're not able to come in person you have access to that information. So that's a project I'm working with our digital services team to put it on a platform. So a of collaboration happens since I'm the ⁓ lead and the sole staff person of the Arnie Nixon Center. So it helps to... ⁓ Tom Nixon: Hmm. Karina Cardenas: Just be a team player with the rest of our library colleagues. Another thing, another, I in the life is just checking my emails like everyone and seeing if anyone has any questions in regards to inquiries, right? Also coordinating ⁓ tours class instructions, putting that on my calendar. Outreach is also something I as well. So, you know, what... what good is a library if people don't know about what we have. So for example, next, not next, this Wednesday ⁓ is Young Conference, which is a conference for young adults and teenagers, basically, to submit their writings for a competition, ⁓ then they are on Wednesday, ⁓ and yeah, and they their award, and... and it's on behalf of the English department. anyways, but that's for me a perfect way to approach possibly future ⁓ Fresno State to know of our collection, especially if they already have a love for writing. They ⁓ can already know we're a resource. So that's a place I like to outreach. We also have a large LGBTQ collection. So often it's like knowing who to, who are your stakeholders, right? So that's something library school 101 is, who is your community, who is your information community. So with our LGBT young adult collection, I try to really echo that collection with LGBT students. So I am also volunteering for our graduation ceremony for LGBT students. We call it Rainbow Grad. So that's another opportunity to have students ⁓ seen and heard and also them what they're reading and see if we that book in there. yeah, so a little bit of everything. I love wearing many hats, so sometimes I'm doing outreach, sometimes I'm doing research, sometimes I'm just putting books So it's a very fun job you not like just sitting on a desk all day because I definitely have too much, even my desk is messy, but ⁓ yeah, there's always something going on. Also planning for the fall is something coming up. His band Books is usually in the fall. So working with our library team here, especially our first year librarians, since in the fall it's usually new students come in. So we want to really show them what we have in regards our collections, but also introduce concepts. Tom Nixon: Thank Karina Cardenas: being taught about once they're starting their curriculum here. So that's one thing we're planning. A lot of technical service projects, which is always harder to market to people. I love doing technical So for example, cataloging books is major thing, So we're working with a cataloger. ⁓ to more of our original older books, so books that are a little bit harder to find on the internet. ⁓ to really show folks ⁓ have rare books and materials you can look at. So that's a part of the technical work. And another project that I have yet to start, but it's on my list of things to do, is to assess books that range the the 18... Tom Nixon: Hmm. Karina Cardenas: late 1800s, early for arsenic. So the green, emerald green ⁓ notes books ⁓ and them up and making sure that they're secure on the shelf. yeah, so the job ranges a lot. and aside from that, I also read books. ⁓ So I'm I'm of the it's called the diverse bookfinder. And it's a wonderful for ⁓ folks that are reading books to children or just reading it for fun. But we basically, I'm a reader and a coder. So I read assigned books that are going to be fresh off the press ⁓ just published. ⁓ we create ⁓ to in regards to like, ⁓ is this a culturally centered book? ⁓ this centered social justice? Is this centered on LGBTQ relations. And the book finder is centered ⁓ on children's ⁓ and adult literature. So all the books we're reading has at least one character that identifies as being Black, Indigenous, or a person of color. And this out of originally the Institute for Museum and Library Sciences, a federal grant, but because of those cuts, There is no funding for it, but I am still doing it voluntarily. I really love the group. And I get to really be in conversation with folks that are interested in children's literature across nation that are working at different libraries, big and small. So that's also a wonderful project that I signed up for. That's very beneficial for collection, right? Because we collect diverse books in children's literature. So it's a great way for me to... ⁓ kind of read what's, you what are some of these interesting books that are coming out. And also have a challenge with picture books are a bit easier for me to scope out, but young adult, which is a little larger, I have to really sit with it. And I can't do that with every book that comes in. so the job is very like, I don't know, I feel like I'm a library student, but I'm getting paid. So it's really fun, I just feel like I'm doing multiple projects at different scales ⁓ I'm very privileged to have, at least I have a great student assistant and we're going to be hiring more students. So usually I love to give students opportunities to really tap, you know, like to get their feet wet with these types of projects in case they want to be librarians in the future. Yeah, so... Tom Nixon: Mm. Karina Cardenas: I hope that gives you a little bit of a taste of what I do, yeah. Tom Nixon: No. That's wonderful. You have a speaker series. Tell us about that. Karina Cardenas: Yes. Yeah, so I don't know if I will be doing it every year just because I am a one person show, but do want to continue doing this like maybe even biannually is just folks are ⁓ in whatever field but to children's literature. So ⁓ for example, we had a speaker series in March with Leonard Marcus, who is a renowned and nationally recognized children's historian and also a curator of children's literature. also Jim Silverman, who is a children's historian, specifically, I would say he's very much interested in California or Western children's literature. So I think for me the goal is to show the academic presence or the scholarship present in children's literature to campus community and just general community. So this past lecture we did, the theme was home in children's literature because ⁓ Leonard Marcus with the National Building Museum, I think in Washington, D.C., to have a, I believe, 10-year long exhibition called Building Stories. And whole theming of it is home. So home in different variations. So he was really explaining what was going on in his head when he was curating, like, what types of books should I select for this museum to show? And who are showing it to? So ⁓ there was where he was showing home is setting, right? Like home, like in ⁓ Make Way Ducklings is like, it's really about in a city landscape. a little bit different from how children's literature used to be before, where it was more in the forest, more fairy tale-like, and now we get more of the postmodern aspect. But also home being untangible, right? Because what if a refugee? So he was also talking about how do you, how do you grasp, like as a child, how do you grasp concepts at home when you don't have one? So also talking about writers that write for those types of children, right, that are going through more unconventional. childhood experiences. And Jim Silverman has donated a wonderful collection of mostly 1900s, 1920s books, either published or about California, California history or fairy and stories. So he came out ⁓ home in a different perspective. he was really putting California as home in these stories. Tom Nixon: Mm. Karina Cardenas: And really having the conversation lead in regards to what is authentically a California story versus not, right? And there's no answer to that. But he was showing depictions of different stories. So for example, one of books he donated is called The Fairies of Lake Merritt. And that story is about a boy that wants to be, basically be part of this other group, right? it's through the lens of a fairy tale. he turns into a, like he wants to be a part of the Swans, but a black boy and how ⁓ he to go to the fairy queen to get permission to, you know, to be a part of this. but yeah, like that's a very, it's not a conventionally, you know, California story, but it was written by a actress, silent film actress Oakland. ⁓ based off of Lake Merritt in Oakland. really putting place as central to the plot, but the story itself is so fantastical, right? But often fantasy reflect a lot of human, you know, situations. So ⁓ the book is a metaphor on death and passing. Tom Nixon: Hmph. Karina Cardenas: And there's no, and it was actually sponsored or through a mortuary in the Bay Area. So there is no nuance to that, right? So I can really say like, ⁓ that's ⁓ exactly what happened the boy fell into the lake and turned into a swan, but turned into a black swan. So then he wanted to be a white swan. So it also tackles on nuances of race, right? At the time that were like, you know, that that's just how the world was in that time. Tom Nixon: Cool. Karina Cardenas: timeframe. So ⁓ so like really, I hope that it kind of shows you like, you know, we're bringing in speakers, but there's really so much everyone can talk about from their specific lens. Children's literature is such a, it's such a huge umbrella. It's like saying adult literature, there's so much types of adult literature, there's thrilling, you know, there's sci-fi. So the way we see adult literature is how I see children's literature is like we have sci-fi, we have nonfiction, we have, but I think we definitely lean more on fiction. So another aspect is I want to invite more nonfiction writers to also speak on how they write how they think, right? Because often nonfiction attracts more folks that are interested in ⁓ that right? So how you find that? How you find that voice for children to understand those concepts, right? Because I always think of think my goal with speaker series or any types of lectures is to over complicate concepts, ⁓ but really welcome people that are kind of somewhat interested and really reel them in with these notions and these trends and be like, ⁓ yeah, I do that in my field, just it's different. So I really want it to be where you don't have to necessarily like children's literature. You can, of course. But I also want to be in conversations with the rest of our campus community in regards to research concepts. And children's history in general is an emerging field because in circles, we didn't really put too much mind into children's perspectives in history. And that's no one's fault. It's just the way we have treated children as secondary characters. My goal is to really emphasize that we can learn a lot from children's experiences also learn how children view the world or how we used to view the world, right? We were all children. So when does, like, why do those things change? Right? So that's something I'm always curious about. art in children's literature is beautiful. Even the current art that I see coming out in new publications. Tom Nixon: Right. Karina Cardenas: I feel like that's something you don't see a lot in adult literature and art is not secondary at times. Sometimes it's the main force, the moving plot for some picture books especially. So I don't know, I think I just want to put a lot more importance into, there's a lot of thought, there's a lot of work and effort in how books are created and also we learn a lot from looking back at older children's books too. Since I have my background in archives and special collections, I love old stuff, but I want it to be relatable to people nowadays, right? Because teachers nowadays will not teach 1890s books that I have in the collection, but I hope it can serve as reminder or just kind of a reflection of like... We didn't think of children that way. Our children used to learn how to read so they could memorize certain scriptures, right? Like in certain societies, like it started through Christian church, Because they like historically had printing presses and could make books. So I am with blending my historical interests and with children's literature. And I also love just learning from our professors that children's literature writing or of children's history. so one thing I always do is always ask professors for their syllabus because I'm curious what they're reading and how can I myself better about that. So yeah, so the speaker series really, for me, an opportunity to show more interesting niche concepts. ⁓ that might be of interest to folks that love children's literature. Yeah, I just don't want it to be just kind of like a general conversation. I want it to be more ⁓ dynamic. Tom Nixon: important is representation in books and in ⁓ You've talked about LGBTQ you've talked about BIPOC. How important having books that represent all people? Karina Cardenas: Well, ⁓ know, I can, from my perspective, that's very important. I of, like, I always think of, like, what was my favorite, one of my favorite books when I was a kid, right? And one of my favorite, I mean, I had multiple, but ⁓ I always about it as Chatos Kitchen, which was by Gary Soto. I grew up ⁓ in East Los in LA, and I grew up a very Spanish-dominant Mexican community. And I actually learned Spanish before English. So I was taught English in school. And Chato's Kitchen I read in Spanish and in English. So as a kid, I don't think I realized I was like, ⁓ I've like, motivated me to read in English because I was reading in Spanish at the time. So a book I really found fascinating. it's, and Gary did that to really, to give a book Latino kids to feel represented, right? So I think it's extremely important because if I didn't find that love for reading at a young age, I don't think I'd be here, to be honest. I don't think I would because my parents were always working. They didn't have time to read. They would love taking me to the library, so my mom would always take me every weekend to our local library branch, El Camino Real Library in East LA. And honestly, that's where I my first librarian. Yeah, and I think I was just always around people that supported me. I grew up a very niche area. Like, again, because I'm used to other, like, from other students even, like, I didn't see books that reflected my experience. But I feel like I was lucky enough that I was in such a culture-aided space that I was able to see myself, and I feel very supported. So I think because I grew up like that, I want... my collection to reflect that optimism and that love for diversity. So not necessarily I'm, I, know, sometimes you'll see banned books being like with tape and stuff. And for me, that's reflective of how I see diverse books. For me, it's like almost a nostalgic sense of like the love for reading. So my goal is that people see your collections and be like, wow, it's so diverse. And Tom Nixon: Hmm. Karina Cardenas: A lot of these books are banned, but they're wonderful. it really changed the current that are going on. I really wanted to go back to where this is normal, because our society is diverse. Especially here at Fresno State campus, have a large Latino community, but also a large Asian community. We're a Division I school, so we a lot of athletes too. So, you know, there's just a lot we can collect on that really reflects various you know, experiences. Yeah, yeah, diversity is very much needed. I love bilingual books as well because it also envelopes more interest in learning a new language. It's actually very good for critical thinking, right? Often, sometimes some books won't. translate it, but as you read you understand the context, right? So I especially like challenging myself because I speak Spanish and English, but we have books, ⁓ have a of Southeast Asian books, so I like to read types of books to also put myself in the perspective of a community I'm not familiar with. So I think it's always fun to learn about different people's experiences Tom Nixon: Right. Karina Cardenas: I think we're reaching an age where empathy is not a trait that we see as with great value. But I think having a lot of empathy, human empathy, is very important to, you know, induce, to diversity you know, having friends of all types and learning from everyone. know, like, literature is reflection of society, for me. So I want there to be diversity so people want to be friends with different types of people get to learn and explore different pathways, right? Because the more you access to, the more possibilities you have as an adult and what you want to do in the future. So yeah, I'm very optimistic about it. Tom Nixon: Mm. Good. a couple of questions that I ask everybody. One is, is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? Karina Cardenas: I would say I really like the book I mentioned, Gary Soto's Chato's Kitchen, but I was a huge fan the Lemony Snicket books. ⁓ That was a great series. ⁓ love gothic literature, so I also liked Belle Wolf a lot when I was in high school. ⁓ My English teacher was a UCLA English grad. Tom Nixon: Yeah. Nerd. Karina Cardenas: and his emphasis was on gothic literature, so we read Frankenstein, we read Beowulf. Yeah, was, I don't remember if it was AP class or something, but I honestly really loved that class because it introduced me to young adult that's like, ⁓ it's eerie, it's different, it's weird. And that's kind of the type of content I still kind of... Tom Nixon: Mm. Karina Cardenas: like reading to this day, like kind of ominous or surreal, magic surrealism. when I don't know where I am in the book. ⁓ so, and thinking, and I have to be honest, I did have my, was it my guilty pleasure, I did read the Twilight series when I was in high school. I feel like there should be no judgment in what you're reading, as long as you're reading, it helps in the long run. ⁓ Tom Nixon: Mm. Right? Karina Cardenas: Yeah, yeah, the series of Unfortunate Events was one of my favorite ones. Tom Nixon: You know Gary Soto is a local boy done good. Karina Cardenas: didn't know that until I here. And I was just like, wow, he's from Fresno. And also, I didn't know that he started as a poet, right? Or he was already writing. So I just knew him as, Gary Soto wrote my favorite children's book. know? So, obviously in college I read Gary Soto, but I always thought of him as ⁓ that. But yeah, wonderful. I'm working on a side project, not here at work, but... Tom Nixon: Mm. Mm. Karina Cardenas: where I've been able to read some of his early poems. it's, yeah, he's wonderful. I mean, I guess my dream would be to have him as a speaker. ⁓ That'd be great. Tom Nixon: ⁓ yeah. I had the opportunity, worked locally Fresno. We have Juan Felipe Herrera Elementary School and I had the opportunity to work with them on creating their library, Brandon's Golden Age Library. So I got opportunity to meet him and it's that same kind of thing that, so impressive. Karina Cardenas: Yeah, I got to the school librarian at the Juan Felipe Herrera Elementary School invited me to do a reading for, so I got to check out their library. It's so cute. Juan Felipe Herrera is also a common, he's a regular at our library. So we have a space in the first floor of the library called the Laureate Lab. And it's basically like an art space. So you can craft, you can write poetry. But he meets, I think, on Mondays. but yeah, it's ⁓ I saw him last week. They had poetry event because April National Poetry Month. Tom Nixon: Mm. Very cool. What are you reading now? Karina Cardenas: now I'm reading for the Diverse Book Finder. I have five books to read right now. But the book reading is... Let me pull it up. It's called Tangled Roots and Wild Dreams. So this is a young adult chapter book and I'm really enjoying it so far. I'm like 40 % in. So it's again, I think it's open to buy now, but it's a freshly published book. But it's basically of this daughter going through her senior year figuring out what does she want to do for college. currently in her internship. So she has two very accomplished parents that were both They're Peruvian. I think her mom is, ⁓ they're both but she's first generation living in the, I think in But she's doing an internship and just, ⁓ it's really going through rise into adulthood and realizing what is her real passion in life. also seeking to her history. So her internship is at nonprofit that her dad founded, but he didn't tell anyone about it. right now I'm in that part of the book where she's figuring out, why didn't my dad want to do this project? Like, this must have meant a lot to him and he never talked to me about it. So she's going through the emotions of feeling left out, but also wanting to learn more about her dad that's deceased, right? So filling that void, but also finding her path. So very... ⁓ Very YA-like, but I really love it. Tom Nixon: Who's the author? Karina Cardenas: The author is Angela Velez. yeah, so she wrote Lulu Milagros Search for Clarity before. This is my first time reading her. Tom Nixon: I want to thank you so so much for being on the podcast for our audience today. Please remember to come see us at Bookfloodpodcast.com and like, subscribe share wherever you listen otherwise. And again, thank you so much for being here. Karina Cardenas: Thanks Tom for having me. Appreciate it. Tom Nixon: Absolutely.