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From Bottleneck to Breakthrough: How to Build a Business That Scales Without You · From Stuck to Scaled: Growth Strategies for SMBs

• Julio Gonzalez: From stuck to scaled growth strategies for small and mid-sized businesses. Your guide to navigating growth, transformation, and success in today's ever-changing business landscape. Each week, we'll dive into proven strategies, real-world case studies, and actionable insights designed to help small and mid-sized business owners scale smart, lead stronger, and grow faster. Let's get you unstuck and on the path to sustainable, scalable success. Now your host, Julio Gonzalez. Welcome back. I am your host, Julio Gonzalez, and today we're diving into a critical topic that affects many founders, the structural limitations that can keep their businesses from reaching new heights. It's not unusual for business leaders to feel stuck, but as we'll discover, the root of the issue often lies not in their strategy, but in the very framework of their organization, and one that heavily relies on their constant involvement. Our guest today is Derek Frederickson, the driving force behind the COO solution. A fractional COO firm dedicated to empowering seven and eight-figure founders in building businesses that can thrive independently. With over 16 years' experience as a chief operating officer, Derek has a keen understanding of the structural challenges that often keep founders feeling trapped. He leads a talented team of fractional COOs who work directly with businesses across various industries, helping them identify bottlenecks and establish sustainable operational rhythms. So let's welcome Derek. Derek to the show. Welcome, Derek, to From Stuck to Scaled. Thank you, Julio. Glad to be here. Looking forward to it. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your business. Yeah, sure. So ⁓ my name is Derek Frederickson and I'm the founder and CEO of the COO solution. And we place fractional, meaning part-time COOs, so chief operating officers as a trusted second in command for companies that are growing and scaling between seven to eight figures. So we embed a kind of day-to-day operator. works with the visionary, help execute on their vision, run the day-to-day, and ideally free up the founder from the bottleneck of the business and give them the freedom and ⁓ and purpose that they were looking for when they originally started their their company. So that's a little bit about us and what we do. I think I'm gonna have a mud wrestling competition, you know, put all us see all of all of us fractional COOs together and ⁓ you know just have some fun. so tell me about your business, you know, how is your business different from other, you know, COO placement firms, consulting. ⁓ because a lot of people don't understand what we do as fractionals. So yeah, tell our listeners what the difference is. Yeah, it's a great question. I've been fortunate. I was a COO for more than 16 years. I actually got started in my wife's business coaching company. That's where I got started. ⁓ she was and still is the visionary founder CEO. And I ⁓ was for ⁓ a number of years that kind of ⁓ you know backstage person the rant the person that ran the day to day ⁓ and kind of execute it on the vision. So I kind of got my my COO second in command chops through through that line of work and then ⁓ started to develop ⁓ other clients that I would help ⁓ grow and scale at seven to eight figures. ⁓ people would sometimes tap me on the shoulder and they would say, I need a Derek. I need somebody to do for my business what you've done for your wife's business. And I did that for a number of years on my own. But as a fractional executive you can only do so much when it's dependent upon you. ⁓ and as I mentioned just before, Julio, I live in France and our market is primarily US-based. So, with the time difference, it was getting a little bit of a challenge to grow and scale where there's only so much of Derek to go around. ⁓ so I very consciously took off the COO operator hat back in 2024, so just two years ago, and very deliberately put on a CEO, you know, founder hat ⁓ and kind of took my playbook of how I've grown and scaled other companies and have been putting that into place into our organization, the COO solution. ⁓ the one thing there's a few things that I think makes our company a bit different. One is ⁓ I always say we are not consultants. We are not here to say, hey, Julio, here's what you should do in your business, but then we walk away and don't actually execute. ⁓ the team that I have developed of fractional COOs, they love running other people's companies. That's their zone of genius. They love to execute on somebody else's vision and be that trusted second in command. And I think the second component is that there is that trusted relationship, as you know. As a COO, you're kind of like that air traffic controller. You're looking over all aspects of the organization from marketing, sales, yes, of course, operations, finance, team, technology. And so you have to be able to kind of be a little bit of a jack of all trades across the horizontal spectrum of a company, but you also have to be very well versed in what I call the vertical spectrum, which is to be that trusted strategic thought partner to the CEO, allow them to ideate, allow them to create the vision. But then they have the trust, faith, and confidence that somebody is there to land the plane, that they're going to develop the plan and actually execute and make that happen. And then also they like to get in the weeds. They like to get into the nitty-gritty. They like to create the structures, the systems, the processes, the SOPs, the accountability, the metrics, all the stuff that I think business owners know eventually that they need in their business to grow and scale, but they don't want to be the one to do it. And so when we step in and provide that infrastructure and that support, we get a lot of momentum and a lot of progress. So I always say, We're not consultants. We're also not babysitters, but we believe in a culture of accountability to execute on somebody's vision A to Z. So I I caught a word that you said there, and and that was eventually, right? They get it that they will eventually need this. ⁓ you know, what I find in in you know, less mature organizations is it's operations, it's getting done. Yeah. and that is the lifeblood of the system, right? Of the business. So yes, you know, if you don't have sales, you don't have a business. But if you can't deliver on sales, then you know, what's the point? Yeah. ⁓ you know, because I what I find is, you know, they'll bring in, you know, either, you know, a sales focused, you know, sales training type of ⁓ resource or finance. And everyone meddles in operations. You know, but then when you bring in, you know, a fractional CO, it changes the message. Do you find that experience on your side? Yeah, for sure. I think for companies that are we get a lot of companies that reach out to us that say they want a COO. And and my in our experience, if you're not yet at multiple seven figures, you may want a COO, but you don't necessarily need a COO. What you need is just more growth. Just keep doing more of what you're doing. But when you're at multiple seven figures and you're looking to scale, you're looking to diversify, you're really looking to leverage the structure of the business beyond the founder, beyond their. intellectual property beyond their know-how, beyond their expertise, I think it requires a certain level of ex experience and kind of knowledge base in that in that situation. So I think when you bring in a COO to kind of be able to be the bridge, I often say they're the bridge from the vision to execution. But part of that is also the founder needs to know that is less about them. They got that business to this point. And in order for them to get say from two and a half to five million, it's less about the business owner and more about Structure, systems, processes, accountability, metrics, et cetera. And they have to realize that they need to do a better job of doing less in their business, do less better, more time thinking and let more time thinking and less time doing. And for some business owners, that's really hard because they've built their, their, their identity, they've built their significance around being the jack of all trades in their own company. And there's a level of meaningfulness that comes along with that. But I think at the end of the day, the job. Of the business owner, the CEO is to not focus on today. Their job is to focus on tomorrow. And tomorrow could be tomorrow, next week, next month, next quarter, next year. But they need to have the trust, faith, and confidence that somebody is running the day-to-day. And that's where I think that COO dynamic can really help move the needle because it frees up the founder to focus on the things that are actually going to move the business forward. I'm sure you've heard this expression: business owners, founders, they love to start things. But they don't necessarily love to finish things. And so when the COO can land the plane and say, Julio, I got it. We're going to make the plan. We're going to make the strategy. We're going to get the people aligned and get the result that they're looking for. It fuels their creativity to create more opportunities, new markets, new ideas. And that's really, really powerful for a business owner to fuel that kind of ⁓ ideation and creativity in the business, which is actually going to help move the business forward. So as a founder, what are some of those things that I need to look at that say, you know what, it it's, you know, I'm missing the boat, right? Because I'm not thinking about, you know, ⁓ the future. ⁓ you know, operations is maybe, you know, tripping me up, but I don't quite realize it. So what are some of those signs that that business owners need to look for that to to you know, drive that thought? Maybe I need to talk to someone. I think it's a mindset shift. I think business owners have that awareness all day long. I think the difference is the aware is the business owners that have the awareness of should I be doing this in my business, even though I could be doing something else? And there are many business owners that say, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. This is the way business is. I often use this analogy where the business owner is pushing the boulder of their business up the hill. And the boulder is getting bigger, and the hill is getting longer and more steep. And some business owners through determination and Sweat equity and strength and you know resilience, they push, they determine to get that boulder up the hill, which is plausible. That's what got them to a certain point. But I think for the business owners that can start to reframe their position as the CEO in the company through the filter of ROI, return on investment, just like they would by bringing on any other team member. And when they're in the moment of being busy dealing with team. managing meetings, holding members accountable, doing all of the nitty-gritty, and ask themselves, truly, is this the most meaningful use of my time, energy, and effort to move the business forward? And oftentimes business owners say, probably not, but I'm going to do it anyway. And I think for the business owners to shift their mindset and say no through the filter of ROI, as the CEO, I should not be doing these activities, even though I could be, and I do them very well, but we need to kind of Put the boat in the other direction and have them stay more in their lane, which is to see the bigger future, create the bigger vision, to be able to create bigger opportunities, to see what the market needs, and then be able to come up with the strategy and then have the team and the process be able to execute that. So I think there are moments in we do this with some of our founders where in the beginning, you know, to also say, I'm overwhelmed. I'm in too much of the day-to-day. I'm dealing with firefighting. I'm whack-a-molling my business and everything else. And I say, so where does your time actually go? And we do what's known as an inventory, a time inventory audit. So look at your calendar for a given week. And if you have a lot of meetings on your calendar, are those meetings necessary? Are they nice to have, or are they neither? And let's take the nice to have's and move them to the side just to free up a little bit more of your time. And then with the rest of your time, maybe you're doing client delivery, maybe you're networking, maybe you're speaking, maybe you're doing marketing, maybe you're checking your email, maybe you're doing your social media, maybe you're doing on your own bookkeeping. Should you be doing those activities in your business as a CEO of a multiple seven-figure busin company? Probably not. You could, but you probably shouldn't. And if you bring somebody else in where you can delegate, outsource, automate, streamline, and free up more of your time, energy, and effort, you really can start to get some momentum and progress in your business. I I'll go back to your identity comment earlier because I think identity is what tends to to get in the way a lot of times because it's gotten me this far. So, you know, I am Mr. Do It All. You know, and now how do I break that? Yeah. Right. And that's that mindset shift to to really, you know, understand, you know, how much more valuable am I if I'm focused on growing the business, not doing the business. I I worked with ⁓ an individual she she became a mentor to me basically and you know she would always tell me that I was too intellectual and I needed to take things out of my brain and bring them into my heart. Right. You need to feel these things and that's that mindset shift. Yeah that that it takes too long to for a lot of people to figure out. Yeah I I say something that can be a bit contrarian which is I don't believe business owners are meant to run their own business. They they're not They're they're they're meant to be involved in some aspects of the business. And I always say, listen, what are the activities that you want to do versus the activities that you feel you need to do out of obligation? If you're spending two hours on a Monday morning in a finance meeting with your finance manager and it kills your Monday, you should probably find a different way to do that meeting or not have it at all and get the information that you need. And so sometimes we also we do this with our clients where I think for some business owners, and I use this analogy of Bob. Bob is a f a fictional business owner that runs a five million dollar financial planning and wealth management company. And he's been doing it for 25 years. He loves the work. He loves his client. Excellent team. But at a certain point, the business started. If you heard the expression the tail wag the dog, the business started to control where Bob showed up. Everything was controlled by meetings, by obligation. There was no fun. There was no excitement. There was no passion left. And so we ask Bob, and we ask this with every client, and I would ask the audience as well, what is your North Star? Meaning, what is the why of why you want to grow and say and scale? Some people say, I want a 2X, I want a 10X, maybe I want to exit, maybe I want to sale, maybe I just don't want to work so damn hard in my business anymore. And whatever that is, tap back in to that North Star, which is the why. It's the passion, it's the mission, because that usually gets pushed down after a while. When you just get sucked into the running of the day-to-day because the tail is now wagging the dog. So you have to switch the paradigm, switch your mindset, become aware that when you're in these activities, you're in these meetings, you're doing this stuff that is really draining your energy, not just taking your time, but draining your energy, which is sometimes worth even more than your time. And say, listen, there has to be a different way. There has to be another solution that can be provided to help them get to where they want to go. And when you bring in a COO, This is not a transactional hire, right? This is just not another team member. This is a significant strategic leadership structural change in the company. And so you have to be willing to change. And not all business owners who want change are willing to change, but that's where that mindset shift really comes into play. And do you work with those leaders on that shift and the mindset? Yeah. It's it's usually one of the very first things. I think if we ask the question of the North Star, that relights the spark. As to why they created what they created in the first place. And so we tap into more of that. We give them more time and space to think about the things that are going to be more exciting, that are going to be more invigorating for their vision-oriented mindset. And then create some structures. It's easy to tell Bob, the business owner, don't be involved in the day-to-day, right? But Bob can't just let go, right? Most business owners have that inner control freak. I need to be involved with this. I need to be involved with this. I want to make sure it's done this way, make sure it's done that way. But when you create a process-driven company, not a person-driven company, which means the team can execute at a level where they're doing things more efficiently. So they get things done more quickly, and they get things done more effectively, which means they get it done at a higher level, and they take more ownership and they take more responsibility and they become more self-accountable. I know it sounds cliche, but a rising tide lifts all boats. That gives Bob the confidence to step away from the day to day, knowing that things are still running operationally. or in marketing or in sales and say, Bob, where do you want to show up in the business? What is the thing that's going to light you up? Because that usually starts to fuel more of their excitement. And I think it's just a little bit of like when you give them a a taste of that, it starts to add fuel to the fire and it starts to steamroll and gain more, you know, more momentum. So I think you you kind of insinuated or implied this in ⁓ in your comment there. But you know, how do you make the distinction Between delegating tasks and delegating outcomes. And why does it matter to that business leader? Yeah. I love this topic. So I think naturally, and this is no fault to the business owner, they delegate tasks. That's the nature of how they've delegated in the past, right? I manage my calendar, I bring in a virtual assistant, an executive assistant, a customer service manager. This is how I Manage my calendar. I do this and I do that and I do this exactly like that way. And you're just kind of cascading the same patterns, the same behaviors, which non-judgmentally may not be the best way to manage one's calendar. Or for example, client onboarding, right? If you are in the financial service business as an example, you onboard clients. There's a certain way of how you onboard clients. And most businesses. Experience working with when you ask them to describe how they onboard a client, they'll be like, Well, there's some stuff in Outlook, there's some stuff in Drive, there's some stuff in Bob's head, there's some stuff on a paste it note over here. And so it's hard to create a system or a process around that. And so I think if you can create a culture where, and this is part of what we do as COOs, is that we come in and we build the structures, we build the systems, we build the processes to show you a new way of doing things. Part of what I think a really good second-in-command does is yes, we will focus on what you need to do to grow and scale, right? Whether it's new markets, new products, new service offerings, new ways of getting Bob out of the delivery. But how we do that is we focus just importantly on how you're doing the what you're doing and the how is the structure systems and processes. To go back to your point, so most CEOs delegate tasks. Just do this because that's what I've done. And it's one task after the next. And if they get stuck, they have to ask a question. If they get stuck, they have to ask a question. If there's a problem, they have to fix the problem. We sometimes as COOs say delegate the outcome. I want the client onboarded experience to be world-class. I want it to feel high-touch in a high-tech way. And I only want to be involved in this aspect. Well, let the people who actually know how to think in that programmatic, systematic, process-driven way come up with the structures on how to do that. I'll give a hack. One the things that we do also, because we work with teams and we'll listen, describe to me your client onboarding process, or describe to us how you generate leads or how you forecast your financials. And then one of the things that usually happens is that there are problems and in the business. And team members are natural problem fixers. We love to fix problems. But if you ask these three questions, you usually get to the root cause of the problem, which is the actual issue. So for example, if you say, We onboarded a new client, Julio, and he didn't get the right welcome packet. And you ask this question, why? Well, Susan sent the wrong welcome packet. Second question. Why? Because she found the old version in the Google Drive. Why? Because it hasn't been updated in the SOP. So you don't fix the fact that the problem is that the wrong onboarding packet got sent. You go back to this the creation of the issue by itself and you solve the issue so it doesn't happen again. This is a Certain way of thinking, I think business owners naturally that's not their lane, it's not their strength, that's not their zone of genius. They have other zones of geniuses which we want to tap into. But if you bring in somebody who's process-driven, system-focused, A-Z framework, that creates a process-driven company and it allows Bob to step out of all of these things, which is: I'm just going to delegate the outcome. Here's the result I want, here's the ideal project that I want to get completed. And let the people that are best wired to create that solution come in and run it. There's a book, I believe, called The Five Wys. ⁓ and the whole concept is that it takes five whys to actually get to whatever root question you're trying to get to. ⁓ I I tend to alternate what's and whys because sometimes you need the what to kind of expand on that. But ⁓ but yeah, I mean, you know, the simple answer that you get is typically not. You know, the complete answer, and you have to just keep digging at it to get to the ⁓ the right place. And it's understandable. Team members, they've already got a full plate. So they don't necessarily have the capacity or sometimes the strategic thinking to ask themselves, should I be doing this in a different way? Is there a more efficient or effective way? And when you introduce this new way of thinking. And you can show them how to do things more systematically, they get more bought into the idea. And then they get more kind of bought like they take more ownership, they get more embedded into the process. And I think that kind of levels up the output of the entire organization. Absolutely. You're listening to from Stuck to Scale, then we're speaking with Derek Frederickson around the benefits of a fractional COO to that multi-million dollar business that doesn't have a COO and is trying to grow. ⁓ Derek. One of the things that and and I know this this is kind of getting into more culture conversations, but it's an exercise that that I often do. how do you get people to be able to look beyond? Right. Because, you know, the business owner gets trapped, employees get trapped, you know, and and I've often said, you know, you can't force someone to think outside the box by saying you need to think outside the box. Right. Right. Yeah. What what do you leverage to to help generate that broader thought? ⁓ to get some of that transformation that you deliver. It's a great question. ⁓ I would say probably I'll answer that in two ways. One is I think naturally with most organizations, one of the things that we do in the very beginning is we establish or try to understand ⁓ is the organization clear on their roles and responsibilities? Oftentimes there might be team members that think they have their lane, but they're not quite sure exactly what they're responsible for. Right. So there's that lack of clarity. And from a lack of clarity, there's a lack of confidence. And they don't want to make a mistake. They don't want to ask questions. They don't want to do things the wrong way. And so they kind of hold themselves back as opposed to a ⁓ a culture of accountability where team members feel more empowered. They feel like they can take more ownership. And so one of the things that we do with most clients, in fact, every single client, again, there's no judgment in the beginning. This is not about, I always say to a potential client, listen, our job is to not Step into your company and shake the tree of your business and see things to get things to fall. We don't want to do that, but we want to try to create a new culture of this is how we do things around here. And that is a culture of accountability. And part of that goes to metrics. So, for example, one of the things that we do with every organization is we say, show us your numbers, show us your metrics. How do you track whether it's KPIs, dashboard, whatever that might be, not just financials, not just marketing. But every function of the business. And if you have a company where there are department heads or people that own marketing, own sales, own operations every week. And I use the example of marketing because in our experience, marketing is the driver. It's the thing that dictates everything. You don't generate leads, I don't care what business you're in. If you're not generating leads, you do not have a business. So we start with marketing and say who owns the fact or who owns the number of how many leads we generate every week? And are we clear? On how many leads on average we need every week to hit our targets in terms of prospects, in terms of sales, clients, projects, whatever that might be. And if we look at that number every single week, and if there's that lead gen number and it's on track, meaning it's doing well, it's improving, great. We don't just discount and leave it. We say, why? And how can we do more of what that number is doing or what is being done to contribute to that number in terms of number of leads on track? Conversely. If that number is not on track, who owns the fact that it's not on track? Why? And what can we change, update, remove, or improve to get the number of leads back on track? Most companies know they need to generate leads, but are they actively measuring that every single week and holding the team member accountable who owns that number and says, listen, Julio, every Tuesday at 10 a.m. Eastern, you need to update the team on how many leads were generated last week. And if it's on track, you better have some responses as to how we do more of that. And conversely, if it's off track, how do we get things back on track? And so when you install that culture of accountability based on metrics across all aspects of the business, I firmly believe that team members get more bought into the process. They're more clear on that's my responsibility, that's my lane. I'm clear, my manager's clear, the CEO or the COO is clear, and I can hold you accountable each and every single week. And they're more aligned to do the activities that are actually going to move the needle. I think it just really raises the bar on, you know, this is how we do things around here. And there are some team members that don't subscribe to that culture of accountability. And we've seen this with teams where we, again, it's not by intent, but we come in and we create the structure and people are like, whoa, I didn't sign up for this level of responsibility. I don't want to be held accountable every single week. I don't want to hold myself accountable every single week. I just want to kind of check in and check out. Great. You were part of this organization to this point, but you're not going to be part of the organization after this point. And so I think it's a leveling up of the culture in an organization that allows things to be more team driven and less CEO driven. And you mentioned you start in marketing. ⁓ what does an engagement look like for you? You know, what are what's that, you know, first 30 days? You know, what what kind of the the timing ⁓ of your engagements? What does that look like? Yeah. So I'll answer I'll answer both questions. The reason I mean I shared earlier, I think the reason why we do start with marketing and I have this conversation with every company, and I'll say, listen, on a scale of one to ten. One, ⁓ a 10 being like in terms of results, metrics, accountability, strategy in the marketing function on a scale of one to 10. Where are you currently in that scale? If you're 10, it's operating on all cylinders. If it's one, you have none of that. And it's a very honest reflection, again, no judgment. And some business owners say it's a three, right? It's the thing that's really actually stifling the growth. And others will say it's an eight or a nine. Great, but then you get to sales. Where the sale purpose of sales is to close said qualified leads. And maybe they don't have a closer. Maybe there's no CRM. There's no pipeline. Leads are falling through the cracks, right? So there's a lot that can be uncovered when you look at that. I call it the path to scale. And so that's part of what we do. The way that we look at things is that we always use a 90-day cycle because again, this is not a transactional hire. We can't come in and then, you know, 60 days, great utopia, scale utopia. Everything's solved, everything's removed as the bottleneck, it doesn't work that way. But we establish first the North Star. With the founder. What's the why? What's the long-term version of why you want to do whatever it is that you want to do with your company? And then we create mini North Star. So the mini North Star is the first 90 days. And typically we'll say, here are we call them objectives, rocks, projects, goals, the things that are going to move the business forward. I would say realistic, but a bit of a stretch. The things that are going to be above and beyond the day-to-day of the business that are actually going to move the business forward. So it might be 10X or 2X are marketing. It might be to establish a CRM. It could be to hire a closer. It could be to remove Bob from the day-to-day delivery of some of the client work. These are the things that are going to over time incrementally shift the business going forward. So we create the the the goal. And then what the COO does is we reverse engineer. What needs to happen week one, week two, week three as part of the plan in order to get there. Cause it's one thing to say we want to 2x our marketing between now and three months from now. But what are we actually going to do? Well, let's reverse engineer what needs to happen the first month, the second month, and the third month. And then we're very clear and honest on our assessment on how we're doing. Are we on track? Are we off track? If we're on track, why? How do we do more of that to be on track? And if we're off track, why? It's about transparency. It's about being very, very vulnerable and up front and say, listen, this is the issue, this is the challenge, this is the opportunity. And we always know how we're doing and what we're doing. And then after that first 90 days, it's another 90-day cycle. It's another 90-day cycle. We are not project-based. This is not something where I can say, listen, Julio, in six months, you'll get from 2 million to 3 million. It does not work that way. As you grow and scale, we are with you every step of the way. New level, new devil. There's always going to be something more to accomplish, something else that needs to be addressed. And so we are that. second in command thought partner to make that happen. And as you, you know, you mentioned sometimes, you know, you identify that it's, you know, kind of the end of the road for for a ⁓ an individual. And you know, it I I I tell my customers, you know, there's a time and a place for everyone. And that might be, you know, employees, that might be vendors. ⁓ you know, the the marketing vendor that got you here isn't the one that's gonna get you to to ten million. ⁓ So you have to be open to to making changes and you know that accountability shift ⁓ is is a big one. ⁓ how do you drive your customers, your leaders ⁓ to build accountability without creating micromanagement? That's a great question. Yeah, because like I said. Yeah, no, it is, yeah. I think it's a few things I've mentioned. I mean, again, I I believe because our model is that we are not babysitters, right? We are not here to say, like, Julio, did you do this? Julio, did you do that? Did you get because that you can't scale that, right? That's just like more of the same, which is just more of the same. I think part of it is in the beginning, I'm going to answer this in a slightly different way, which we'll come back to your question. Because with most companies, when we step in, there are some key team members that we need to get on board. With this new culture of how we're doing things. And we don't want to be like a bull in a china shop and and and and and kind of ⁓ you know dilute the runway that we've built in terms of stepping in. So I always say, is one of the questions that most companies ask in the very beginning, like, I want to make sure that you don't disrupt the culture of the team. There are a few team members, if they were to leave, it's gonna be like really chaotic. And our intention is not to do that. So we do it very strategically and very carefully. And so one of the things that we do just as part of our model. When we step in with the companies, we don't step into the company and say, Hey, look at us. This is who we are and what we're about to do. It's the CEO that cascades that message out to the team because the CEO might be bought into the idea, or if they're working with us, they're bought into the idea that they're bringing in a fractional COO. But just as importantly, if not more so, for some key team members, we need to get them on board. So there is that runway for them to adopt that when we step in. Again, not to judge. But we start to ask some questions. We get under the hood of the business and really start to assess what's working, what's not working. Do we have clear roles, accountability, all the things that maybe they haven't thought about because they're just so darn busy doing the day to day? And we start to ask the question, how are you doing what you're doing? Some team members get on board with that because it empowers them. And other team members, like I said earlier, it's kind of this is not what I signed up for. I don't want this level of accountability. And so We have to kind of get them on board. And so I don't like to use the expression, but we want them to be sold on the idea that this is going to help them, just as much it's going to help the company, and just as much as it's going to help the founder. Some teams think, ⁓ this is great for Bob, but how's it going to help me? But if they see that they can take more responsibility, have more ownership, up-level their role, feel more empowered, higher level decision making, feel more of significance, that's what you want. That's actually going to be the thing that's going to move the needle the most in the long term, as much as it is for Bob. And and what does some of that change management look like? Because you know, what I find in organizational change is that the leader that engaged you is going through that change first because you know they engaged you, you're working with them, and then there's a gap between where they are in the change process and everybody else that's going through the change process. So how do you how do you sensitize them to that change? Because it's easy to say, well. You know, I've been communicating this, and there's this guy, Derek, and you know, he's just not getting it, he's not being sold, you know, yeah, on this. So, how do you drive some of that change? I'll answer this also. I think sometimes a really good COO, there's a bit of a gut check. I I call up there's this EQ component that gets a feeling that listen, I think that this person is doing good work, but I also feel in my gut that they may not be the best solution long term. No judgment, but If there's this feeling, and I often say, listen, if you have a weekly leadership team meeting with our client and the COO and the leadership team, or just the COO and the CEO, and you keep talking about the same team member over and over again, that is a sign that there is going to have to be something done. I have this very direct way of looking at it, which is a framework that I came up with. It's not, you know, anything ⁓ special, but I call it called ⁓ fine, fix, or fire. And so when you're dealing with a team member who is not in line, right? They're not subscribed to a this is a system followed by all, but except John and operations, because he just doesn't get in line. You have three choices. You either need to be fine with it and just accept the fact that John's never going to get on board. And maybe it's too important to disrupt John as an organization team member, and we're not willing to make that call yet. So we're fine with it, even though it's not perfect. Number two. We try to fix it. We try to get John on board. We try to get him in line. We have a very upfront, transparent, vulnerable conversation and say, John, this is what we would like you to do. And here's why it's going to be important. And here's what it's going to do for the longer-term benefit of the organization. And try to get him to subscribe. But we cannot convince him, right? It's just like sales. People love to buy, they hate to be sold. And if we're trying to sell John on something that he doesn't want to buy into, you're not going to be able to fix John. Or number three. We've made the decision that we're not fine with it and we're not willing to try and fix it because maybe we've done it in the past. And so we're going to fire it, which means John goes stage left, right? Either on his own or by us. So I think that's one answer to that part of the question. The other thing, which is part of our model in terms of change management, we consistently provide a done by you. Sorry, I said say in our context, done for you, done with you, done by Done for you is in the beginning, we step in and we create the structure. We create the system. And these are not technical systems. The system might be how you onboard a client. The system might be how you train new employees, right? So we create the SOPs, the checklists, the playbooks, the run books, and we do that for you so they can see, they being the team and maybe Bob, the business owner, because they may have a partner, how we're doing things now going forward. After a certain point in time, that could be a few weeks, it could be a few months, depending upon the complexity. We do it together because then the team member gets more bought in. They have more ownership. They have a stake in how they're doing what they're doing. And they start to subscribe into a new mindset of not just going through the motions and doing what they've always done because that's what they've always done. So I'm going to keep doing what I've always done. They start to ask Could I do things differently? Could I find a better way? That's the buy in of done by you. And then eventually they do it by themselves, which doesn't mean we've exited. But they fully have bought in now. They own the process, they own the structure, they own the SOP. We're there as a resource, but we're now moving on. The COO is moving on to the next layer of complexity or operational change that gets to happen. So when you do that across a number of different aspects of the business, especially for companies where maybe it's operations, maybe it's marketing, maybe it's sales, maybe it's even finance, and you start to incrementally progress, not perfection, change how you're doing what you're doing. it does start to elevate the level of the ability to scale and not feeling so complex. And and I think the that using, you know, what if is you know incredibly powerful in those situations because when they realize, you know, that they can ask questions and you know have their own opinions and they start asking what if, ⁓ you know, you could see their eyes light up and and ⁓ wow, isn't it? You know, there there are other possibilities. So I I think that's a, you know, a huge aha moment, you know, when you're down at at the, you know, let's say mid management or even staff level, ⁓ when they realize that they can drive some of that change because they're being empowered. Yeah. So that that done with you and done by you, I think is is pretty significant. Yeah. I think it's also sometimes we've seen this where, and again, not to fault the business owner, but sometimes they because they're more focused on delegating tasks, not outcomes, they've never asked that question. Julio, have you ever thought of there's another way that we could be doing this differently? You know this process better than I do. And so when you give Julio or you give John an operations more ability to reflect and add input and add value and contribute, that gives them an opportunity to feel more engaged as opposed to John, I just want you to do it like this and just check the box, dot the I, cross the T. This is exactly how it's supposed to be done. They feel like they're more, they just have more stake involved in the total outcome. ⁓ and it and and it's a question that they've maybe never been asked before either. So they have the opportunity to be like, ⁓ I mean, Bob's never really asked me this. I just keep doing it because that's what I did day one. You know, it has been four later and this is still how we onboard a client. So, Derek, you know, with as many customers as you see, and and you know, you're operating at a at a higher, you know, scale company than than I am. ⁓ you know, what are some of those common operational gaps that you see in your customers ⁓ who are stuck and trying to scale? Yeah, I think for most it's the operator to owner dilemma, which is the business owner realizing that they no longer have to be the operator of their business. At the beginning, they were the operator. They were the jack of all trades. But at a certain point, yes, beyond delegation and bringing on team members, I think there was a real there needs to be a real big mindset shift. One of the things that we do with all of our clients is we do a number of assessments, ⁓ not personality assessments or things like that, but there are two in particular. One is called Colby. K-O-L-B-E, which is an assessment that ⁓ kind of allows you to understand how you're wired to take action. And entrepreneurs, business owners are natural ⁓ high idea generators. Like I said earlier, they love to start things, they don't love to finish things. And so when they like to throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and maybe only one of those things sticks, they need to realize that they're not the one that needs to be the person to execute on A to Z of the one strand of the spaghetti that's stuck. If they bring in somebody that's best wired, it's their zone of genius to be the one to come up with the plan and execute. I think it frees up the business owner from trying to be the operator and have them be more naturally in their own lane of genius, which is being that true owner, looking down on the business as opposed to trying to tinker in the day-to-day. So stay in your lane and honor those gifts that you have as an entrepreneur, opera ⁓ owner, and and be able to focus more on the vision, more on the future of where you want the company to go. Then the other question was about running my company here from from France. Yeah. So, you know, the world keeps getting smaller and smaller. And it is so much easier to, you know, expand multinationally. And you're doing that, you know, yourself. So what ⁓ you know, what's some of that experience been? What's what tips can you provide to other business owners who are running, you know, it may be a smaller multinational? Yeah, it's a great question. I've I've learned it through experience. We've been living here in in France for 10 years. And so I think we I say we because my wife and I, we were still working together at that time. We underestimated the amount of you know adjustment it would take, right? So ⁓ you know, I always in the beginning I would say to our team and even sometimes with our clients now, if you're having lunch and you need something from Derek, you better understand that it's probably not going to get addressed until the next day because I'm having dinner, right? So there's just a natural time gap between the two. ⁓ but there's some real advantages that I think even without being international, companies can think about. I call it asynchronous communication, which is the ability, yes, there is value for doing Zoom meetings, for you know, Teams meetings, et cetera. But when you use tools like project management tools like Asana or ClickUp or Monday.com, Slack, Loom videos, etc., you can get a lot done. Asynchronously, which means I do a piece, then you do a piece. We go back interchangeably. And if there's a point where we need to have a conversation to work something through and discuss it, we can do that. But there's a lot that gets moved in terms of the day-to-day of the business without having to be, ⁓ I would say, kind of paused for the fact that we have to schedule a time between you're in LA and I'm in Paris and there's a nine-hour difference. That can be a real bottleneck. I think the other thing that it doesn't relate exactly to the fact that it's international, but I think part of just being more ⁓ able for companies to do things more virtually ⁓ is is leveraging a lot of these tools. We get a lot of companies that come to us, and I'll never forget this one guy, he owned a pool construction company in Oklahoma, family business. They had an office and ⁓ you know, on-site, in-person ⁓ team and everything else. He's like, Derek, I get it. You had me after this conversation. I'm a full yes. How the hell do you guys do this remote? I just don't understand. How does it happen? And I said two things. Number one, it actually is more effective. Yes, there's the benefit of being able to go and talk to Susan and accounting and talk to Bob and sales, et cetera. But when you don't have that luxury, you have to do things at a different level. You have to be more efficient. You have to be more collaborative. You have to really dial in your communication because I don't have the luxury of just going to the coffee machine or the water cooler and talking to Julio about the client onboarding, right? So you have to kind of up-level how you're doing what you're doing. The other thing is if you're looking for a world-class fractional COO, nothing against the people of Oklahoma City, but you may be sacrificing who you're going to find if you're looking for somebody that's in your zip code. And I said that to him, he's like, okay, point taken. And we didn't end up working together. That's fine. But I think the idea is that some people feel like we have to do things in person. We have to do things on site. And there's a benefit to that. But you can also move the needle, sometimes even more so, when that benefit is not available because it requires a different way of doing what you're doing. And I think any company in this environment in this day and age with all the tools and technologies can tap into that. I I am in full agreement with you. Sometimes it is much better to not be there. ⁓ so Derek, where can our listeners find you? ⁓ yeah. So probably the easiest place is our website, which is the coosolution.com. ⁓ I have a podcast where I talk about things such as what we discussed today. And there's a A free quiz there for somebody who wants to explore the idea of maybe bringing on a fractional COO. That's something that they're open to. So yeah, that's the coosolution.com is the website. Sounds good. And we'll have all of that information obviously in the show notes. Thank you all for joining us on this episode of From Stuck to Scale. ⁓ it's clear that the path from bottleneck to breakthrough requires not just insight but actionable steps. Derek's wisdom underscores the idea that growth isn't about working harder, but restructuring how we operate. By conducting a bottleneck audit delegating outcomes and building consistent operating rhythms, you can unlock your business's true potential. Remember, the journey from operator to owner is a vital transformation and it's one that starts with trust and accountability. Don't let your involvement be the ceiling of your company. Embrace the change and take the steps necessary to scale effectively. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us next time as we continue to explore ways to thrive in your business. Until then. Keep pushing forward and thank you so much, Derek, for coming on the show today. Thank you, Julio. Enjoy the conversation. You've been listening to From Stuck to Scaled Growth Strategies for Small and Mid-Sized Businesses, produced by Opticution LLC. For more information tools and resources, check out our website, www.opticution.com slash podcast.