Latest / Pod Save America / 2020: Bernie Sanders on democratic socialism and Cardi B

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2020: Bernie Sanders on democratic socialism and Cardi B · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I just
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: spoke to Senator Bernie Sanders and for the next installment
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of our presidential candidate interview series. We talked about democratic socialism.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We talked about health care and Medicare for all and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: single payer. We talked about immigration. We talked about Israel,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: all kinds of good stuff with Bernie. It was a
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: great conversation. So tune in. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for being here.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: My pleasure.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I want to start with a version of a question
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that we ask all the candidates who come through. You
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time talking about how real change
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen because of any one candidate or leader, but
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: because of a movement, which I completely agree with. Why
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: are you the candidate who's best equipped to lead such
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a movement at this particular moment in history?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Because I think, John, that's what we've been doing for
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a number of years. Just as an example, right now
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: we have... 2 million people who have, 2 million individual
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: contributors to our campaign. That's, I think, an all-time world record,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you. And what we have done
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: is establish a grassroots movement all over this country. Now,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: after I ended my campaign last time, and after the
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: 2016 election, I did something a little bit different than
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: what other candidates who lose do. What I helped do
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: is start an organization called Our Revolution.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: And the function of that organization was precisely to build
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: a strong grassroots movement of young people, working people, and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: people of color. And in many ways, it has succeeded.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: And in terms of the 2000 election, what I am
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: most proud of is the fact that we saw a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: significant increase in young people's political participation. And that's something
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: we have... I'm not suggesting that we did that alone.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: A lot of groups did it. But that's something we've
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: been working on. So I believe In grassroots organizing, we
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: are about a political revolution bringing millions of people to
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: stand up and fight for justice.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I know you first became politically active as a college
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: student in Chicago during the 60s. When, for you, did
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: thinking and learning about politics turn into activism, and why?
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Why did you say, I need to actually do something
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: about this?
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  Speaker 2: Let me back it up a little bit. My political consciousness...
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: was raised as a kid. And it was raised in
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: two fundamental ways. Number one, I grew up in a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: working class family, the son of a Polish immigrant, Polish
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Jewish immigrant. We lived in a rent control department. So
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: what I learned as a young person is what lack
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: of money does to a family. So I grew up
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: in a good household. We were not poor, but we
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: were a struggling lower middle class. And all kinds of
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: fights would take place in my between my parents because
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: of the lack of money. And that I remember very distinctly.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And of course, that is a reality that impacts tens
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: of millions of families today. And I've never forgotten that.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Unlike Donald Trump, I didn't get $ 200, 000 a year allowance.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I got 25 cents a week. Second of all, I'm Jewish.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And as a kid, I remember very, very well hearing
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: from my parents about the Holocaust. And I remember getting
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a phone call that came in the middle of the night,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: which never happened in our household, from some cousin of
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: my father's, I guess, who was discovered in Europe at
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: a displaced person's camp. So if you lose your parents,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: your father's family, to the Holocaust, to a lunatic named Hitler,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: you become aware, as I think African-American families understand, that
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: politics is not something abstract. It impacts whether you live
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: or you die, whether you're treated with dignity or not.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Those are the two factors that shaped I think, my
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: willingness to engage in politics.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I thought your speech on democratic socialism made one of
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the most compelling economic arguments I've heard in the race.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I love the inclusion of FDR's second Bill of Rights.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: My question is, FDR is a proud democratic capitalist. Your
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: critique and your solutions are in rough agreement with other
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: progressive Democrats. So what is valuable to or important to
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: you about the label democratic socialism?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Fair question. And the answer is, and to a large
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: degree what our campaign is about, it's not just fighting
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: for Medicare for all. It's not just about raising the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: minimum wage to a living wage. It's not just about
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: combating climate change. It's not just about making public colleges
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: and universities tuition free. What it is about, and I
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: think we are unique, And I think that's where the
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: word democratic socialist comes in, is understanding that we do
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  Speaker 2: not accomplish any of that unless we have the courage
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  Speaker 2: to do what has not been done. And that is
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: to stand up to an incredibly powerful and wealthy ruling
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: class in this country whose greed has wreaked havoc on
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  Speaker 2: the working class of this country. So I can sit
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: here and tell you, John, look, I want to do
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: this and I want to do that. And you'll nod. Yeah,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: that's great, Bernie. But at the end of the day,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: this is what I will tell you. And we have
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to deal with this. And if you disagree with me,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: tell me. I've been in black here. But at the
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: end of the day, why are we the only major
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Why do we have three people in America owning more
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: wealth than the bottom half of America? Why are we
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: a country, unlike many others, that doesn't guarantee our kids
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the ability to get a higher education? Why do we
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: allow the fossil fuel industry to make billions a year
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: while they destroy the planet? And what's the answer to that?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: The answer to that is these guys have incredible power.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And if you don't recognize the power structure in America,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: which I do, and the need to take them on frontally,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: then a lot of the other ideas don't really mean
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a whole lot.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Back when you were mayor of Burlington, you called yourself
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: just a plain old socialist. You argued for nationalizing industries
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: like energy industries and banking.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Let me correct you on that. That's not when I
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: was mayor of Burlington. I was elected in 81. Before that,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I ran on a third-party ticket, which had some of
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: those ideas. That's not what I advocated when I was mayor.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: In fact, we got along. I wouldn't say we got
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: along with the business community, but if you check my
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: record of my eight years of Burlington... the entire city
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  Speaker 2: did quite well.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I guess what I was asking is, have your views
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: on socialism and your politics in general changed over time?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: How have they changed over time, or has it been
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the same since you first started?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: No, it's not been the same. I think if you
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: don't change over the years, something is wrong, right? You're
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: not learning anything.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: If I said exactly what I said 40 years ago. Look,
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  Speaker 2: this is what I think, and this is not radical,
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  Speaker 2: and I don't want the word democratic socialism to get
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: people upset or scared Look, have you been to Scandinavia? Yes.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: So what do we have? Just take a look at
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: a country like, say, Norway. You have a baby in Norway.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: What do you get? You get, if my memory is correct,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you either get 12 months off paid leave, or I
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: think you get 12 months off at 80% of your
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: pay or 10 months off at all of your pay.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: You have excellent quality and affordable child care. you have
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: a strong and very good public education system. Do you
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: know how much college costs in Finland or Denmark or Sweden?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: It's free.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's free. You can go to medical school. You
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: can become a lawyer.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It's free.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So it's not really so radical. Germany, public education is free.
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  Speaker 2: So when I talk about these ideas which get people
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: very nervous, guess what? They're existing all over the world.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: It's not so scary to say that we should not
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: have three individuals owning more wealth than the bottom half
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: of America. We should not have the top 49, the
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: top 1% earning 49% of all income. Maybe, just maybe,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: we want an economy and a government that works for all.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And that means we end. Just come back to health care.
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  Speaker 2: I know we'll discuss it in a minute. We are
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: the only major country on Earth that doesn't guarantee health
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: care to all people. I live 50 miles away from
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the Canadian border. You go into Canada. You have a
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: heart transplant. Do you know how much it costs you
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: when you come out of the hospital? Nothing. All right?
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So you and I have the common experience of being
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: part of campaigns that took on Hillary Clinton.
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  Speaker 2: You won, I lost.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: That's the difference. It was close. What did that primary
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: teach you about yourself?
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  Speaker 2: It's funny that you ask that because we learned, obviously,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: an enormous amount. And as you well know, being part
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: of a presidential campaign, being staff or the candidate is
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: an extraordinary experience. I come from a small state. And
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you, I mean, during the course
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: of this campaign, going all over the country and meeting
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: all kinds of people, diverse communities that I had really
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: never spent a whole lot of time with was a
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  Speaker 2: beautiful experience. And seeing so many beautiful people, especially a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: lot of young people out there. Now, you know, people
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: ask me, they say, Bernie, you do really well with
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: young people, right? That's what we do. And what was
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: your brilliant plan? What did you... Figure this thing out.
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  Speaker 2: And the answer is zero plans. We just did it
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  Speaker 2: and went on as the God. And it turns out,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: you know, that among the young people. and this is
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: what I learned, there is a sense of idealism. And
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  Speaker 2: I think it is fair to say that the younger
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: generation today is probably the most progressive generation, young generation
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  Speaker 2: in the history of the country, anti-racist, anti-homophobic, anti-sexist, et cetera.
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  Speaker 2: And that also these young people for the first time
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: may end up having a lower standard of living than
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: their parents. So what I learned is there are a
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  Speaker 2: lot of beautiful young people out there who want to
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: stand up and they want to fight for justice. There
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: are a lot of old people out there who are
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: hurting because they can't afford their prescription drugs or their
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: housing or whatever it may be. There's a lot of
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: pain out there. And that's what we recognized in this campaign.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Between 2016 and 2020, what was your plan and what
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: is your plan to grow the movement? that you began
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in 2016? Because obviously you need to add more people
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to win.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, I think it's a multi-pronged approach. Number one,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I think for our campaign, and frankly, to defeat Donald Trump,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: what we have got to do is grow the voter turnout.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: The very good news for us is that two out
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: of three young people are progressives. The bad news is
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: young people don't vote at the kind of levels that
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: they should be voting. Now, they're doing better. 2018 was good.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: We've got a long way to go. So I would
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  Speaker 2: say one of our focuses is to do everything we
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: can to register young people and get them involved in
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the political process. Number two, I believe we've got to
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: expand our base. A lot of people in African-American communities
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: did not come out to vote for Hillary Clinton. You know, Milwaukee, Detroit, elsewhere.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And we've got to creates an agenda which speaks to
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the needs of working class people, black and white and Latino,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Asian American and Native American. And we got to get
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: them engaged in the political process. This is my fear.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Anybody who thinks that Donald Trump, you know, the polls,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: there was a poll came out, I think today, had
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: me six points out of Trump. I don't take that
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: all that seriously. Trump is a very formidable opponent. He
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: lies all of the time. He will use the power
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: of government to help his campaign. Obviously, this man has
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: no scruples at all. And the billionaire class will be
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: behind him in endless amounts of money. So what we
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: need is an energized population of young people, of working
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: class people, of people of color in order to beat him.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: We need the largest voter turnout by far in history.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I think our campaign can do it. The other thing
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that we need to do, and I think people disagree
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: with me on this, But I think there is a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: part of the Trump constituency, a part, that can be
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: won over, that is not racist or sexist or homophobic
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: or xenophobic. And those are people that you know. I mean,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong here, that you have people
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: out there who voted for Obama not once but twice. Right.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And then they're voting for Donald Trump.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: All right? Because they felt that the political establishment had
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: failed them. All right? They're working two or three jobs
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: going nowhere, right? Their kids... can't afford to go to college.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: They can't afford health care. And they're saying, hey, what
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: did you guys do for me? Did you remember me?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: You know, I live in the Midwest. I'm not in
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Los Angeles and I'm not in New York City. Help
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: me out. I think we can appeal to some of
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: those people.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: So this is my next question. I mean, there was
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: a study out of Iowa after 2016 that said the
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: most significant factor in that state flipping to Trump was
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not his economic promises, but his nativist appeals. And there's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other studies like that. You've probably seen
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: them that racial resentment was one of the main factors
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and switch over. Do you buy that, and do you
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: think that the Democratic Party can win those kinds of
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: voters back with a progressive economic agenda, even if some
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of those voters have been motivated in the past by
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: racist or nativist appeals?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: The answer is yes. And I think they're not— I understand
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: what you're saying, and I do agree with that, those studies.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: But they're not unrelated in this sense. If you are
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: somebody in Michigan, in Iowa, Pennsylvania— Your job went to China.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: You're making 12 bucks an hour. Your standard of living
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: is lower maybe than it was 20 years ago. Your
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: kid is still living in the house because your kid
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: can't go out and get a decent paying job. Kid
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: can't afford to go to college. You can't afford health care.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: You're angry and you're resentful. And what Donald Trump said,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and Trump may be crazy, he may be disgraceful and disgusting,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: he's not stupid. And he said to those people, What's
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: happening to your life, huh? Democratic establishment has ignored you.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I hear your pain, and I'm going to take on everybody.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I'm the anti-establishment candidate. And he combined that with saying,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: let me tell you what the problem really is with you.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And then he goes into his divisiveness and his racism.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and his xenophobia. So I think that he's playing on
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: people's economic resentment. And instead of saying, we're going to
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: take on Wall Street, and we're going to take on
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: the insurance companies and the drug companies who are ripping
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: you off, we're going to take on the undocumented people.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: That guy in California makes $ 10 an hour picking strawberries.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: That is your enemy. That little girl who goes to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: high school, who was undocumented, we're going to throw her
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: out of the country. Those are your enemies. And that's
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: where I think the two become related.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think... that we can win those voters back,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: even with a lot of the positions that you all
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in the primary have proudly taken? Like, can you win
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: those voters back by talking about decriminalizing border crossings, by
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: talking about reparations for slavery? How do you feel about that?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying we can win them all back. Right.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: All right. Please don't hear me say that.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: But you don't need to win them all back. You
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: don't need to. The way we win this election is
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: grow the voter turnout. The basic... democratic base, that is
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the African-American community, the Latino community, the trade union community,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: the working class community that is still voting Democrat, make
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: sure we get them out to vote. We greatly expand
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: voter turnout among young people, and we get a part
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of the Trump base. You do that, you not only win,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: but you win big. As you know, what we're talking
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: about is 15 or 16 states, really. You're not talking
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: about California or New York. And I think if you
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: look at states like Michigan, if you look at states
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, other states, we can win those states
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: by doing just that. But here is my point. I
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: happen to think that good policy, i.e. policy that speaks
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to the needs of the working class of this country,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: a working class that has been decimated for the last
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: 45 years, and they know they have been decimated, And
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: our job is to make them understand that Donald Trump
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: is a liar and a fraud. You remember, correct me
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, this is a guy who campaigned about
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: giving health care to everybody. Well, that's pretty good. I
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: support that. And then he tried to throw 32 million
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: people off the health care that they had.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: So I think we expose Trump. I'm not going to
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: tell you that we win all of his voters. I
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: think we can win a chunk of them, expand the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: voter turnout. We win the election.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: It seems pretty clear that he's going to make the
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: general election about race, immigration, white identity politics. I think so.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And so Hillary had this challenge in 2016 where Trump
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: says something, you know, she probably wants to talk about
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: her economic message. He says something crazy racist. You've got
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to respond because it's wrong not to respond. And now
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the news cycle is about Trump and what he said
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: about Trump. How do you? Do you pivot to an
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: economic message? Do you take on his racism and xenophobia directly?
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: How do you handle that?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hire you to figure that out.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, great. Perfect, perfect.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, who the hell knows? You are dealing with
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: a guy, you know, I probably missed the major news
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: of the day because I haven't seen his latest tweet.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: So I don't know what his latest tweet said. And
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you're right. And then the media goes crazy and that's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: what you're forced to respond to. So look, you cannot
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: ignore racism. Donald Trump and his tweets and his lies.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: But if you become obsessed with them, I guarantee you
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: will lose the election. I don't intend to do that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: All right. So what we have got to do, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: here's what I want to get back to, because this
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: is the key point. There are tens of millions of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: people who are hurting very badly as we speak, even
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: in a so-called good economy where unemployment is relatively low.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: You've got half this country living paycheck to paycheck. And
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: the Democratic leadership for too damn long has ignored that reality, okay?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I believe that in 2016, I've said it before and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I'll say it again, it wasn't that Trump won the election,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: it was the Democrats who lost the election. You cannot
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: turn your back upon people who are struggling every day
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: in terms of low wages, lack of health care, inability
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to send their kids to college, people who are in
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: debt because they come down with cancer. You cannot ignore
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: those people. They are America, and they're as important as
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: anybody else. We've got to talk to their issues.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Do you think it was the Democratic agenda in 2016
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that ignored those people, or is it a message issue?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: It's not a message issue. I think for too long,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: for too long, going way back.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Hillary's agenda was pretty progressive.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not just an agenda. It is the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: perception that the Democratic Party was hanging out with the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: rich and the powerful, all these wonderful fundraisers and Hollywood stars.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: No offense to Hollywood stars. I'm in California. You know, but,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: you know, Southampton and Los Angeles are not necessarily all
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that there is to America. Maybe we've got to get
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: into Kansas and into Mississippi and into rural Wisconsin and
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: to talk to family farmers who are being driven off
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: of the land, to talk to the kids who are
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: making $ 11 an hour and trying to pay off their
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: student debt. So this is what I'm saying. We need
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: a candidate who speaks to what people are feeling in
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: their guts. And getting back to the very first question
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you asked me, they understand that there is something wrong
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: when over the last 30 years, the top 1% have
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: seen a $ 21 trillion increase in their wealth, while the
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: bottom half of America have seen a $ 900 billion decline
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: in their wealth. They know it. They may not have
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: PhDs in economics. They know the system is thoroughly rigged.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: They want a presidential candidate who doesn't hobnob at fancy
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: mansions with the rich and the powerful, but is prepared
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to take them on. And I think I am that candidate,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: by the way. Just in passing. Just in case. Just
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: in case anyone had a doubt.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: So, I think it's a credit to you and to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the movement you helped build that the healthcare debate in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: this primary is between a public option and single payer.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And quite a few major candidates have followed your lead
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: on single payer. Last week, a new mayor's poll showed
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that 41% of Americans support Medicare for all defined as
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: a national health insurance program for all Americans that replaces
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: private insurance. 70% support Medicare for all that want it
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: defined as allowing all Americans to choose between a national
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: insurance program or their own private health insurance. So I'm
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a voter at a town hall who's fine with my
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: current health care plan. I don't love it, but I'm fine.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I like the ability to choose, and I'm worried about
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: my taxes going up. Why should I support your Medicare
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: for All plan versus the Medicare for All who want it?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And, John, you're right. That was one poll. There are
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: other polls which have different results which show overwhelmingly that
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Democrats do support a Medicare for All single-payer program and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the ending of private insurance in this country. So thanks
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: for the question, and here's the answer. Number one, the
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: goal is to provide health care to every man, woman,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and child as a human right, not a privilege. Now,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: when we talk about health insurance, you know and I
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: know that there are a whole lot of people out
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: there who do have health insurance, but they have huge
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: deductibles and copayments, and they can't afford their premiums. And
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: we are spending about twice as much per person on
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: health care as the people of any other country. Meanwhile,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you've got over 80 million people uninsured or underinsured, And
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: we pay by far the highest prices in the world
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: for prescription drugs. In a couple of days, Sunday actually,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be going to Windsor, Ontario, with a
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: busload of folks who are dealing with diabetes. We're going
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: to buy insulin there for one-tenth the price that is
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: being charged in America. The current function of the health
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: care system is not to provide quality care to all people.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: It is to make billions in profits for the drug
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: companies and the insurance companies. That is the fact. So
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: you can talk about, well, I want health care for all,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: but if I have a large copayment and a large
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: deductible and I have to pay out of my own pocket,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I may still not be able to get to a doctor.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So let me be clear. I don't want to be
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: disingenuous with folks. What our plan says is kind of
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: similar to what Canada is about, is you walk into
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: the doctor's office, any doctor you want, and by the way,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: there's some confusion about this, and that is Under Medicare
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: for All, you have absolute freedom of choice regarding the
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: doctor or the hospital that you go to. You walk
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: into that doctor's office, you come out of the hospital
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: after heart surgery, you don't have to take out your wallet.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: It is covered through public funding. And that is an
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: essential difference to what we're trying to do and what
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: others are trying to do. When I talk about healthcare
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: for all, it means no deductibles, no copayments. It means,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: by the way, expanding Medicare for Seniors to cover dental care,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: hearing aids, and eyeglasses. And we can do this because
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: we eliminate all of the waste and bureaucracy. You know this.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: This is an incredibly complicated system. Hundreds and hundreds of
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: different insurance companies, doctors are going crazy, hospitals are going crazy.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: We eliminate all that. We have a simple system expanding
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Medicare over a four-year period to cover everybody.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Can you guarantee that no middle-class families' taxes will go
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: up by more than they're currently paying in premiums.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: And thank you for making that distinction. What the Republicans
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: will say, Bernie Sanders wants to raise your taxes. What
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: they forget to tell you is you're not going to
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: do any more out-of-pocket expenses for health care, no more premiums,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: no more copayments. So at the end of the day,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: if you weigh the two, yes, the overwhelming majority of
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the American people will be paying less for health care
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: than they are right now.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: So I guess sort of a larger question on this
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is why to you is Medicare for all and single payer,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: so important to spend a lot of money on making
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the transition, right? Because you could imagine a situation where
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you have a very robust public option, where you throw
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of money into making the subsidies more generous,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: into making sure we don't have these high deductible plans. And,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you know, there's some countries that have universal health care
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that isn't completely, you know, government run single payer. When,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: you know, there's other problems out there, there's wage stagnation,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: there's food insecurity, there's poverty, like, This is going to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: be a huge price tag, right, to move the health
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: care over. I mean, in taxes, right? And obviously, we're
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of savings in health care
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: costs as a nation. But why, to you, is it
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: so important to focus on sort of redoing the entire system?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I personally don't think it's quite
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: as difficult an undertaking as other people do. I'll tell
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: you what was difficult. And let's think about this. Back
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: in 1965, on the LBJ and the Democratic Congress, they
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: passed Medicare. And you think back to 65, they didn't
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: have the technology that we have today. In their first year,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: they started a brand new program. They said everybody over
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: 65 was going to have health insurance. Started a brand
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: new program. They got 19 million people into the program
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: in one year. Now, do we really think it is
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that hard in the period that we're living in now
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: with all of the sophisticated technology that we have? to
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: simply expand that program. We're not starting a new program.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: We did have a tricky time with that. I heard
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: about that. I do remember that.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Computers didn't work so well.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: From experience, it was not all that easy.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I do remember that very well.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It is a serious point because, look, I lived through that,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people got these cancellation notices, and
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: we could try to say, look, you're having a different
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: insurance plan, but you're still going to get more generous benefits, right?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I think people's faith in government is so shaken that
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: it is you know, for reasons that we could talk about, too.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: But I think it is hard for average people to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: look at a change this big and sort of embrace it.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yes or no. How's that for a man?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: All right. And the yes or no is this. For
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: better or worse, I'm not inventing a brand new program.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: We got a program. By the way, Medicare Today is
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the most popular health insurance program in the country, far
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: more popular than any private health insurance company program. And
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: all we are trying to do over a four-year period,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: and people say, Bernie, it shouldn't take four years. Here
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: it is, okay? You've got Medicare right now. You're 65,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: you get into Medicare. We're going to expand Medicare benefits,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and I mentioned that. Then the first year, we're going
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: from 65 down to 55.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Is that really so difficult? And the next year, down
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to 45. And the next year, down to 35.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: It is more gradual than people probably assume.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, people criticize me for, you know, actually
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the House bill moves it more rapidly than I do.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I honestly don't. I think we're starting with a strong program,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: which is well-respected and popular. We're strengthening that program, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: we're expanding it to everybody. And that may be actually
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: even simpler than coming up with even more complexity to
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: the existing health care system. You know, John, when people
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: get upset about the health care system today, and as
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: you know, they are very upset about it, it's not
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: just that they're spending, in many cases, far more than
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: they can afford to pay. Your working class people have
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: spent on a fortune. You know, small businesses have gone
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: crazy trying to figure out how they can get insurance
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: for their workers. It is the complexity of the system.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Every human being that I've talked to has had to
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: sit down and fight with the insurance companies. I thought,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: just a good friend of mine was telling me, he
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: thought he had a colonoscopy covered. Turns out he has
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: to come up with $ 3, 000 to pay for it. Everybody
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: in America has had that experience. This is a simple system.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: It is a public system. You walk into any doctor
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you want, you don't take out your wallet. It is
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the right thing to do. It'll ease the pain of
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: millions of people who are trying to negotiate with the
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: drug companies and make life easier for doctors, by the way,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: and nurses as well, and hospital administrators.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: What are the top two or three legislative priorities that
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: a President Sanders would want to get done or at
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: least start before the 2022 midterms?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Medicare for all, certainly.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Would that be number one?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I don't like this number one. I mean, I think you...
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Up there. Yeah, it's up there. And how could anyone
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: run away from climate change? I mean, we're talking about
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: scientists telling us that we have fewer than 12 years
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to fundamentally transform our energy system or else there will
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: be irreparable damage done to this country and to the
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: rest of the world. So you can't run away from that.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And I think the third one, if you want me
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: to limit it to three, or four, or five, or 16.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: All right, we can go on.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Well, you know how the Senate works. We don't have
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: too much time before the midterms.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And the third one is to deal with an economy
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: today that works extremely well for large multinationals and for
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the wealthy, but it's not working well for working class people.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And we've got to create an economy and decent paying
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: jobs for all Americans. And that's why we have what
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: we call a guaranteed jobs program. If you want to work,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: you're going to work and you're going to earn a
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: decent wage. And we're going to expand unions to make
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: it easier for workers to engage in collective bargaining. And
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: then you've got education. I mean, the difficulty with answering
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: your question, all these issues are so important. is, you know,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and I know, I mean, in many parts of this country,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: our educational system, often in minority communities, is failing the kids.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Teachers are leaving the profession because they're overwhelmed with the
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: problems and the lack of resources that they have. So
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: it is not a radical idea to say that we're
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: going to put, instead of expanding military spending, instead of
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: giving tax breaks to billionaires, we're going to put money
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: into public education. We're going to attract and pay the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: best and the brightest young people to get involved in education.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: We make public colleges and universities tuition free. And by
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: the way, we cancel student debt in this country and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: we pay for it with a tax on Wall Street speculation.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So you've said in the past that you would try
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to get Medicare for all done through the reconciliation process
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and keep the filibuster in place. Could you explain to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: people what that means?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Look, at the end of the day, I think everybody
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: knows that the Senate historically functions very differently than the House.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: The Senate is a more conservative body, moves slower than
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the House. House, you got the majority by one, you
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: move it. Senate, not the case. You have filibuster and
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: so forth. So this is what I believe. Do I
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: believe that the Senate should simply become a majority-based institution
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: like the House? No, I don't. But on the other hand,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I will not allow, as president of the United States,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: one person to block what tens of millions of people need.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So what we need for a start is filibuster reform.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: That means people are going to have to be on
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: the floor of the House talking. They have a right
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: to express their opposition, but they're not going to do
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: it by, you know, have a staff member sending a
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: piece of paper to the leader. That's number one. Number two,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I believe that we can use, you know, as you
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: well know, Bush used budget reconciliation to get his huge
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: tax breaks for the wealthy. We can use budget reconciliation
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: And by the way, if I'm president, my vice president
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: will be the president of the Senate, who I suspect
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: will be in agreement with me in interpreting Senate.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Because the vice president, the president of the Senate sets
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: the rules.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: So if someone says, oh, that shouldn't be in budget reconciliation,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: that he or she can say, yes, it can.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that is essentially getting rid of the filibuster
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in another way.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Not completely. Because I do believe, you know, look, I
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: do believe, you know, sometimes... It's easy when you're in
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the majority, but when you're in the minority, you want
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the opportunity. I was on the floor a number of
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: years ago for, I don't know, eight and a half
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: hours or longer, talking about my concerns about legislation. Oh,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: it was Obama's tax bill. Tell me to think of it.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: You may remember that.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I do. I do remember that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: But I think people have the right to be in
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: opposition and get their voices heard, and I don't want
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: to do away with that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: But you're not expecting any You're not expecting any Republican
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: votes for any of your agenda in the Senate, at least, right? Probably,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you know, because then it does seem like it's 51
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: votes or nothing.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: No, that's right. So, I mean, I think we use
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: budget reconciliation. We move aggressively to filibuster reform. People have
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: the right to voice their opposition. They have the right
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to gain control over the Senate for and talk, but
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: they don't have the right to stop progress in this country.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: What would you do differently from President Obama to keep
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the movement alive and active? once you're in the White House.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: This was our challenge, right? Why do you.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Ask that question? I discussed that with President Obama. Oh, good.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, what advice did he give?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: He was very kind. We were in the Oval Office
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: on a couple of occasions talking about many, many issues.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And here's what I will do if elected president. And
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I say this not out of generosity of spirit, but
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: because I think it has to be done. When we
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: talk in our campaign and our central message is a
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: political revolution, our central message is us, not me. What
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: do I mean by that? What I mean by that
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: is I happen to believe that there will never be
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: real change in this country unless we take on the
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: incredible power of Wall Street. All right. And I know
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: that was an issue. I suspect I was in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: White House. along with a number of other senators, talking
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to the president about that issue. You recall that point
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: back in 2009. Very well. Okay. And you've got to
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: take on the insurance companies and the drug companies and
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: the fossil fuel industry and the prison industrial complex and
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: the military industrial complex. And you know what? No president,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: not Bernie Sanders, not Barack Obama, not anybody else can
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: do it alone. Now, I know that during the 2008 campaign,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: which you were involved in, I happen to believe that
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Obama ran one of the great campaigns in American history.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: That's my view. But I think, and this is what
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: the president and I talked about, is how do you
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: continue that grassroots activism? How do you do that? And
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: what he said is, and I remember exactly what he said,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: he said, Bernie, it's harder than you think.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I will agree with him there because I saw it too.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: It is harder than you think, but I think that's
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: what has to be done. So when I talk about Us,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: not me. This is my understanding. I'm not running for
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: president simply to get elected president. I'm running for president
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: not only to defeat the most dangerous and ugly president
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: in the history of this country. I am running for
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: president to help transform this country, and it cannot be
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: done alone. It is absolutely imperative that we figure out
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: a way to maintain millions of people in the political process.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: How you do it, I can't give you the script
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: right now, but it has to be done. It has
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: to be done. And that's what the political revolution is about.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Because you asked me, will we have Republican support for
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: this and that? Well, you know what? If we go
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to Kentucky and tens of thousands of people tell Mitch McConnell,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: you know what? We're working for nine bucks an hour.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: We can't make it. You are going to vote to
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: raise that minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. Can
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: we have that impact? I think maybe we can. All right.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: So we need to mobilize millions of people to stand
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: up for justice. And as president of the United States,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I would be part, you know, you'd be commander-in-chief of
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: the military, but you're commander-in-chief of a strong grassroots movement
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: You've said you want to pass comprehensive immigration reform, dismantle
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: cruel and inhumane deportation programs and detention centers. You do that.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: How would enforcement in a Sanders administration differ from the
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Obama administration, immigration enforcement, or would it?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I think the first thing that we do and I
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: know Obama was sympathetic to this, is the need to
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: go forward with comprehensive immigration reform. And you know what
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I think? I think that's what the American people want.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very popular.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You know, Trump talks about throwing millions of people out
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: of this country. Thank God very few Americans think that
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: that is the right or decent thing to do. So
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I think you rally the American people and you sit
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: down with some sane Republicans. Now, one of the things
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: that we have to be imagining... is that right now
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: we have a racist president who is trying to divide
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: the country up. And sadly and tragically, I don't know
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: if you were planning to talk about this, we have
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: seen the essential collapse of the Republican Party around this guy.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: People are afraid to stand up to him. He can
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: say or do anything, and you don't hear more than
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: a whimper out of Republicans. But if you have a
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: president who talks about justice, who is rallying the American people,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: some of these Republicans who today are too afraid to
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: stand up, may start coming forward. Can't guarantee it, but
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: they may. So I think we move toward comprehensive immigration reform.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: We stop these terrible raids, which are terrorizing communities. I
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: was just the other day here in L.A. talking to teachers.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And as you know, the L.A. school district is largely
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: people of color, kids of color. And you got kids,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Latino kids, scared to death that they're going to come
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: home from school and their parents are not going to
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: be there. Do you know what this means to kids?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: How do you live under that stress and anxiety? So
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: we stop these raids. We move forward with the support
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: of the American people and I think some Republicans in
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: passing comprehensive immigration reform. And in terms of border policy,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: what we need is a rational asylum process which understands
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: that if a mother takes a kid a thousand miles
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: by foot in order to escape the violence in Honduras
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: or El Salvador, that mother and child are not criminals.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: They are desperate, desperate people. And we have to figure
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: out how we create a humane asylum process. We get
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: the judges that we need to move that process along
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: in a rapid way, which we don't have right now.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: So those are some of the things I think we've
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: got to do.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: You know, we didn't start off too well, but by
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the end of the Obama administration, the deportation priorities were
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: limited to dangerous criminals and recent arrivals. Would you maintain
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: those deportation priorities or enforcement priorities?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I think also, if I may say, and I'll
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: answer your question, is, you know, what Obama did finally
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: is develop a DACA program.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: All right. Which is no small thing. And Trump, of course,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: has eliminated that program. And we would reestablish that and
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: expand that program. I think that I understand that Trump
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: is going to be running his campaign for reelection, as
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: they do in Europe right now, significantly on a racist,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: anti-immigrant basis. I'm not quite so sure that he succeeds.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I think the American people are much more sympathetic. to
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: the plight of immigrants. My own father came to this
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: country from Poland. Many other families are in the same boat.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I guess my question, longer term on immigration, is you
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: take Trump out of the picture. We're going to have
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: climate refugees that are going to be moving up from
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the South We have, you know, we're looking at the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: problems in Venezuela right now. We're going to have other
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: refugees looking for not just escaping violent situations, but looking
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: for economic opportunity. How do we think about immigration in
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that context? Because, you know, you talk about the Scandinavian
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: countries all the time. Some of the countries that have,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: you know, generous socialist programs also have more restrictive immigration policies.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Having a multiracial democracy that welcomes immigrants and has very
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: generous social programs hasn't really been tried anywhere or succeeded
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: really well anyway.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You know, John, that is an excellent question and it
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: is not an easy question to answer. I mean, it's
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: a question we have to wrestle with. Is it my view,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: you know, Trump wants to accuse all Democrats and Bernie
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Sanders of open borders. They're going to open the border.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Everybody in the world is going to come in here.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of millions are going to flee. People are going
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: to flee to the United States. Obviously, that's nonsense. So
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: long as we have nation states in this world called
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Mexico,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, you know, there are going to be limitations.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And I think, first of all, you're absolutely right in
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: suggesting that especially with climate change and the incredible poverty
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: that exists in so many countries in the world, this
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: is going to be a challenge not just for the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: United States, but countries, industrialized, wealthier countries all over the world.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And we're going to have to figure out humane policies
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: to deal with. I would say probably the most effective way,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: certainly in our hemisphere, is to try to address the
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: reasons why so many people are fleeing Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: and other poor countries. And the truth is, these are
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: small countries. And one of the points that I've made
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: as president in the first week in office, I will
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: bring together the leaders of Mexico and Central America, other
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Latin American countries, and say, look, we have a hemispheric problem.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: People are fleeing drug violence in your country. They're fleeing poverty.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: How do we work together so that we can improve
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: life in your countries? Because everything being equal, I don't
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: think a poor person wants to travel 1,000 miles to
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: come to a country where they can't speak the language.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: So that would be the main goal, and I think
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: that's true all over the world. The industrialized countries of
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: the world are going to have to sit down and
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: figure out how we improve lives in the poor countries
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: so that people do not have to flee.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: On that topic, you've talked a lot about the rise
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of right-wing authoritarianism fueled in part by tremendous global inequality.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: What tools does the United States have to stop that,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and how would you address that as president?
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: It is an incredibly— significant issue. I think you've got 25, 30,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: or 100 people who own more wealth than the bottom
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: half of the world's population. And, you know, we have
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: to sit back and say that is really not acceptable.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: And there are a number of things that we have
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: to do. One of the scandals, we learned this from
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: the Panama Papers, you recall Panama Papers, and other studies,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: is that large corporations and the wealthiest people in the world,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: including people like Mr. Putin of Russia, are hiding unbelievable,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: we're talking about trillions and trillions of dollars in offshore
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: banking systems in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Luxembourg, and other
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: countries around the world. We're talking about trillions and trillions
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: of dollars that are escaping taxation while countries around the
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: world are imposing austerity programs on working class people. And
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: we have to deal with that. We can't deal with it,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously in the United States we can do
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: what we can do, and I will do that. but
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: it's a global problem impacting not only our country but
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: the rest of the world. So as a planet, as
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: a globe, the countries of the world are going to
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: have to work together to end the ability of the very,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: very rich and the powerful to avoid paying their fair
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: share of taxes. It's one thing that we have to do.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: You've been very critical of Bibi Netanyahu and the Israeli government.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: We spent a few billion dollars on aid to Israel.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Would you ever consider using that aid as leverage to
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: get the Israeli government to act differently?
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we are giving large sums
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: of money. Look, let me back it up before the
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: tweets start flowing in. I lived in Israel. Actually, I
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: worked in a kibbutz for a number of months. I
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: have family in Israel. I am Jewish. I am not anti-Israel.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I believe that the people of Israel have absolutely the
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: right to live in peace, independence, and security. End of discussion.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: That is what I fervently believe. But I think what
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: has happened is in recent years under Netanyahu, you have
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: an extreme right-wing government with many racist tendencies. The role
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: of the United States, and this is not easy, you know,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I believe me, Clinton tried it, Obama tried it, Jimmy
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Carter tried it. This is not easy stuff, is to
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: try to finally bring peace to the Middle East and
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: to treat the Palestinian people with the kind of respect
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: and dignity they deserved. Our policy cannot just be pro-Israel, pro-Israel, pro-Israel.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: It has got to be pro-region, working with all of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the people, all of the countries in that area. And
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: it's a similar position. And Hillary Clinton and I had
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: a bit of a disagreement on this in 2016. Saudi
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Arabia is a vicious, ugly dictatorship. That's what it is.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: You've got to call it out. That's what it is.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: They do not tolerate dissent.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: They treat women badly.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Like third-class citizens, and yet they have been our wonderful ally.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: We followed them into this terrible war in Yemen, where
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I'm proud to say I helped lead the Arab League
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: out of that terrible war. So what we need to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: do is not say we're 100% pro-Israel, we're 100% pro-Saudi Arabia,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: we hate Iran, we hate the Palestinians. That is not
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: the role that the United States of America should be playing.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: We've got to bring people together and say, you know what,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: we're spending a whole lot of money, not only in
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: aid to Israel and to Egypt, we have spent trillions
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: of dollars on the war on terror, All right? We
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: are going to sit down. And by the way, I've
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: been critical about Trump every single day since his administration.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: But one area I'm not critical about. He went to
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: sit down with Kim Jong-un. And you know what? I
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: think that's okay. I think that's the right thing to do.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: And I, as President of the United States, I have
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: to sit down in a room with the leadership of
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, with the leadership of Iran, with the leadership
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: of the Palestinians, with the leadership of Israel, and hammer
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: out some damn agreements which will try to end the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: conflicts that exist there forever. I have to do that.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Do you think today, in 2019, the distance between the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Democratic establishment and the grassroots activists, progressive activists, is as
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: large as you might see on Twitter or in the news?
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's that big?
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's as big as you might
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: see on Twitter. It's pretty big. It is big. It
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: is pretty big.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: What drives you craziest about the Democratic Party?
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Is that they're not open to young people and to
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: working class people. And that's just simply the truth.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: And is that openness, would you say that's a result
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: of what you said earlier, which is too much time
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: raising money from the wealthy? Is that your main?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's what the establishment does. The establishment hangs
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: out with the wealthy and the comfortable and people in power.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: And the establishment kind of forgets that as we speak,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: there are millions of people living paycheck to paycheck. who
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: can't afford health care, who are paying 50% of their
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: limited incomes in rent, who are scared to death about
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: an illness in the family that might bankrupt them. I
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: think the Democratic establishment to a significant degree, and there's
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of rhetoric out there, but has really forgotten
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: about that and has forgotten about the need to stand
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: up to power.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Dr.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Jr. talked about it. Truth to power.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of power in there. Maybe you can
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: disagree with me, But I'm not quite sure that the
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Democratic leaders would have said to Wall Street, you know what,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: you're not going to charge 25% interest rates on credit
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: cards after we bailed you out. To the pharmaceutical industry,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: we've dealt with that for a few years, right? You
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: explain to me how the hell they can charge 10
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: times more for insulin in this country than in Canada.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: And it's drug after drug after drug. Has the Democratic
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Party stood up to these people?
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I guess my view is at least a lot of
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: the Democratic politicians I've known and worked with are in
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: it for the right reasons. They want to stand up
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to these industries. they're stuck in a very shitty campaign
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: finance system where sometimes you have to raise money from
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: wealthier people. And they don't like that, but they do it.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: But when it comes down to taking the votes to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: stand up to powerful interests, they take the votes, but
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Republicans have blocked progress for a long time. The insurance
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: industry wasn't thrilled with the Affordable Care Act.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Right, right. The pharmaceutical industry was pretty happy.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were happier than they should have been for sure.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I agree with you there.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I agree with what you said. Look, I get tired
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: of hearing politicians, including the people I'm running against, by
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: and large are decent, honest people who are in it
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: for the right reasons. People don't understand that. So I
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: agree with you. But on the other hand, I think
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: we would be hard-pressed to really state that the Democratic
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: leadership has said to Wall Street, has said to the
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: insurance companies, has said to the drone companies, fossil fuel industry,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: you know, you can't destroy the planet. You can't do
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: it anymore. It's not only a question of making cars
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: more fuel efficient. We've got to go further than that.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: So I happen to think that there is a gap
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: between grassroots America, young people, working class people who are
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: hurting very badly, who want leadership to create, to take
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: on the big money interests and create an economy that
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: is fair, that is just, that will improve life for
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: ordinary people. Democrats by and large, with some exceptions, have
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: not done that.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: And what do you think the left could be doing
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: better to be more politically effective?
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I think what progressives have got to do is to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: spend a great deal of their time and energy in
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: going out into distressed communities all over this country and
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: knocking on doors and doing a whole lot of educating
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: and getting people who have given up on the political process.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: There are so many people, I'm sure you know, who
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: are so disillusioned. You can knock on the door. We
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: need you to vote. I'm not going to vote. It's
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: all bullshit. Don't bother me. All right. We have somehow,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: and it is not easy. going to have to bring
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: these people into the political process. And I don't know
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: the progressives. We're working on this in our campaign. We
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: have got to do better than we're doing. But that's
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: really what the goal has got to be. Get people
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: involved in the political process and have our working class
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: and young people stand up to the 1% who have
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: just unbelievable power and wealth in the country today.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Final and most important question. Will you have Cardi B
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: perform at the inauguration?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Will.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Putting together a committee to take a look okay all
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: right that's good uh bernie sanders thank you so much
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: for uh thank you so much for joining us really
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: appreciate it
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you.