Latest / Speak In Flow / If Everything Is Important, Nothing Is

Transcript

If Everything Is Important, Nothing Is · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we slow things down just a bit to help you communicate with clarity, with confidence. Each episode is just 20 minutes long. We're gonna give you practical tips to help you address, real time, what is happening in your work and in your world.
• 0:20
  Melinda Lee: Today, we're going to be talking about how to speed up
• 0:24
  Melinda Lee: your process, speed of productivity. In our world where everything feels urgent, everything has an importance, it doesn't… it's not clear what we need to do.
• 0:35
  Melinda Lee: And so that's our episode today. We're going to have so much fun, and I'm excited to bring Executive Director of E3 Consulting. He has over a decade of experience in renewable energy, bringing renewable solutions, energy solutions, to our global
• 0:52
  Melinda Lee: global world. So I'm excited to have him. He's also the author of Building High Performance Resilient Team, a People Leaders… a Leaders People Guide? A people leader's guide.
• 1:04
  Rounak Kharait: People eat us great. Yeah, people eat us.
• 1:06
  Melinda Lee: Peter's Guide, and I'm excited to learn more about this book because, it's… there's a lot of philosophies that was introduced to him by his mentor, and his mentor's no longer here, so we're just really excited to be able to honor his work. So welcome, Ranak Karate.
• 1:24
  Melinda Lee: Hi, Rona.
• 1:25
  Rounak Kharait: Hi, Melinda, thank you for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be here.
• 1:28
  Melinda Lee: I'm sorry for messing up that title. I was, like, doing so well, and then… but, Billion High… Building High Performance, Resilient Teams.
• 1:39
  Melinda Lee: It's so important in our world today. We're just going at super fast speeds, and so we really need to learn how to have resilience in this time and age.
• 1:48
  Rounak Kharait: Absolutely. If you want to build championship teams, it has to happen over a long period of time, so short-term
• 1:55
  Rounak Kharait: This can have impact on the resilience of the team, because you can have short-term successes, but you're looking for long-term, sustainable success, resiliency within the team, so it's absolutely important.
• 2:06
  Melinda Lee: I agree. And so there is a listener out there who's really busy, and so he stopped, he or she stopped to listen to this episode.
• 2:16
  Rounak Kharait: Whoa.
• 2:16
  Melinda Lee: you hope that this person gets changes in their lives when they implement the strategies today?
• 2:23
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, I'm hoping that they would get a sense of calm out of the strategies that I'm going to provide here, because when you're having so many urgent tasks all important at the same time, it kind of gets overwhelming.
• 2:36
  Rounak Kharait: And this is not relevant to just work, it's relevant to life as well, right? We have so many things that we are juggling as…
• 2:43
  Rounak Kharait: working parents. Now, hopefully this strategy can help you prioritize and set the expectations correct, moving forward. So that's what I'm hoping for the listener to go back with.
• 2:57
  Melinda Lee: I agree. So as leaders, we want to be more in the calm, and operating from a sense of calm, and so by following these strategies, they can get that.
• 3:05
  Rounak Kharait: Absolutely, I'm hoping so, yep.
• 3:07
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and so today we're talking about attention scarcity.
• 3:12
  Melinda Lee: What do you think that means, and how does that, affected your life?
• 3:17
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, this is a very, very interesting topic to talk about. Attention scarcity, for me, happens due to a couple of reasons. One reason that we kind of talk about is, you know, there's so many things to do, and everything is important for everybody.
• 3:34
  Rounak Kharait: Right, so we are… even if we want to, we cannot pay the attention that we need to do
• 3:41
  Rounak Kharait: for that particular task. So that's just scarcity, because we don't… we have to do multiple things at the same time.
• 3:47
  Rounak Kharait: But the other thing is also, we have a lot of distractions.
• 3:51
  Rounak Kharait: Right? While at work and other personal time as well, where, kind of, we have… we are a generation of using our phones more than any other generation, so we have scarcity in terms of our attention span, our concentration itself.
• 4:06
  Rounak Kharait: Right, so that can be a part of what leaders face today, because we are trying to work with different generations, different mindsets, as well. So, yeah, those two things can be a part of the attention scarcity that the leaders are facing.
• 4:21
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and have you struggled with this before?
• 4:23
  Rounak Kharait: I have, absolutely. Like, a lot of my roles in my field, like, to give some background to the listeners, I work for a consulting firm right now, but I've been in the solar energy industry for almost 12, 13 years.
• 4:41
  Melinda Lee: And my role is…
• 4:42
  Rounak Kharait: to support large-scale solar and storage projects to be implemented in the country. So, whether it is developing it.
• 4:51
  Rounak Kharait: or whether it is providing financing for these projects. So if you drive in the middle of the desert, you see solar projects, you know, out there, there's a good chance I might have worked on it.
• 5:03
  Melinda Lee: Wow.
• 5:03
  Rounak Kharait: So that's my field. So, you know, for… for me,
• 5:08
  Rounak Kharait: I've worked with the largest renewable energy developer in the world, and they were… you know, we had 20 projects a week that we were working on. So everything is important for every developer, every project. That project is the best project in the world.
• 5:24
  Melinda Lee: Nevermind project is the best.
• 5:26
  Rounak Kharait: I get it, I get it. If I were in their shoes, I empathize with that, but I have to adhere to all of the 20 projects, or give them the input they need for 20 projects.
• 5:35
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 5:36
  Rounak Kharait: How do I prioritize that? So…
• 5:38
  Rounak Kharait: That's one example where I faced it. The other is also, you know, for us as consultants, we are pretty busy during quarter endings.
• 5:49
  Rounak Kharait: Right? Because everybody's trying to get the project, quote-unquote, on the books.
• 5:53
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 5:54
  Rounak Kharait: Right? So, people realize at last minute that I want to do that now. And I've been asking them for months, but now they realize I need this report in.
• 6:04
  Melinda Lee: Yep, end of the year's coming up.
• 6:06
  Rounak Kharait: At the end of the year, so I need to get that done. So that's the time where I feel that urgency, and I have to prioritize and help my team prioritize as well, because if I am not
• 6:15
  Rounak Kharait: You know, helping them prioritize, they get confused.
• 6:18
  Rounak Kharait: So I have to help them with that. So those are the two examples I can think of.
• 6:22
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Do you think that because there's so many things that are urgent.
• 6:27
  Melinda Lee: People get more distracted, or they get… what is that?
• 6:32
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, like I said, for every stakeholder you're working on, their project is urgent and important, so there are two.
• 6:40
  Rounak Kharait: distinctions that we provide, right? Like, it's urgent and important.
• 6:44
  Rounak Kharait: For that particular stakeholder, it's both.
• 6:47
  Rounak Kharait: So.
• 6:49
  Melinda Lee: That's why they feel, you know, we should drop everything that we are actually currently working on and do things for them, because that project is important and urgent.
• 6:57
  Rounak Kharait: So the key is for us to help us distinguish between those two factors.
• 7:02
  Melinda Lee: Huh.
• 7:02
  Rounak Kharait: And talk to the stakeholders, and then come to a conclusion what's actually urgent and important.
• 7:07
  Melinda Lee: Oh, okay. Yeah. How do you do that? So, can you also give us a little snapshot of what might be urgent and what might be important? Correct.
• 7:19
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, urgent is obviously based on a timeline, right? You know, something is bound on a timeline. For example, like, for a project closing, or for a, you know, your book closing, the timeline cannot be moved.
• 7:33
  Rounak Kharait: Right? That becomes urgent. But then what's important is what tasks in that are important. There are… if there are 10 tasks that are needed to be completed.
• 7:44
  Rounak Kharait: You can help talk to the stakeholder and say, okay, out of these, only 5 tasks are actually important to make that urgent deadline.
• 7:51
  Melinda Lee: Got it.
• 7:51
  Rounak Kharait: Right? So then you can help filter that situation and make sure that you don't give all the 10 tasks
• 7:58
  Rounak Kharait: to the team so that they feel overwhelmed. You can give the five tasks and help them, you know, say, okay, I've negotiated and worked with you on making this, what's actually important and urgent.
• 8:08
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, and do you have a specific methodology to help them decipher? One is a… to a timeline, and what if all the… and then out of all the important ones, how do you know what's most important?
• 8:20
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, yeah, sure, good question. For that, then, again, I work from, like, a…
• 8:26
  Rounak Kharait: tree-diagram kind of perspective, right? Okay, now that I have the 5 tasks that are important and urgent, then I will categorize them based on
• 8:35
  Rounak Kharait: Revenue impact?
• 8:37
  Rounak Kharait: about personal impact? I think personal impact is also important. How much, you know.
• 8:43
  Rounak Kharait: for long-term sustainability, I can't have this…
• 8:46
  Rounak Kharait: you know, stressful tasks being done continuously, so that, you know, my team member will feel that they are feeling overwhelmed. So that's also a part of my decision making. But revenue is then also a part, you know, if I do task A, which is going to give you X dollars.
• 9:03
  Melinda Lee: Versus task B, which is going to give you X minus 10.
• 9:07
  Rounak Kharait: then, you know, task B becomes important, right? So then you focus on… so you… and for… that's… that's my two categories, but there are… there are other categories that people can think about.
• 9:18
  Rounak Kharait: You know, you can easily put him into certain buckets, and then which bucket is more important than the other is the reader's decision to take.
• 9:28
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And so this is an example that you, working with your clients.
• 9:35
  Rounak Kharait: Yes.
• 9:35
  Melinda Lee: to decipher, but what about from an organizational level? You know, from the sustainability and what you do in the sustainability industry.
• 9:45
  Rounak Kharait: Yep.
• 9:46
  Melinda Lee: Matt, and I think, like, all organizations, a lot of organizations today, everything has been so fast-paced, and everything feels urgent.
• 9:57
  Melinda Lee: Are you finding that, leaders at the top are doing more things that… or less things that are important?
• 10:06
  Rounak Kharait: I think leaders are now focusing on more things that are important. I think the value that the leaders have now seen is the value of having a clear vision and a mission to the team.
• 10:19
  Melinda Lee: which helps…
• 10:20
  Rounak Kharait: all the team members align in the same direction, right? And helps them understand the decisions that the leaders are taking. So if you have a clear vision and a mission statement.
• 10:35
  Rounak Kharait: all the team will know why you are taking certain decisions, right? But if that is not clear, it's kind of hard for the… for the people that… who are, you know, impacted by this to understand where the decision is coming from.
• 10:47
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and what would you say to people that are like, oh, we've done that before, we've created a mission, vision, strategy, and it doesn't work, nobody follows it?
• 10:57
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, I would say, you know, it's one thing just creating it, and then it's one thing following it. And the harder part is for the leader to actually follow it. So, when the leader is creating that vision and mission, if they don't themselves portray or, you know.
• 11:15
  Rounak Kharait: Show that they are passionate and they are following that. It's not… it's not right for them to expect it from their employees.
• 11:22
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 11:22
  Rounak Kharait: Right, so it comes from them showing, okay, in every decision I'm taking, this is what I'm
• 11:28
  Rounak Kharait: have laid down as the foundation, right? And this is what we are going to move towards. And if you show that, then everybody sees that, right? It's a… it's something that the leader doesn't have to speak out aloud, but they will… the employees will see what they're doing.
• 11:44
  Melinda Lee: So they can't blame the employees for not following through?
• 11:46
  Rounak Kharait: Correct. I'm a firm believer of this, like, if I can't do something that I'm asking my team to do, it's unfair. I mean, I don't have the same skill sets that they do, right? I understand that, but I… I will always empathize with what they are bringing onto the table, and say, okay, I know what you're doing, and help them
• 12:06
  Rounak Kharait: And, you know, give them the time and the space to…
• 12:09
  Rounak Kharait: mature, to learn, to grow in their respective roles, right? So I will definitely do that.
• 12:15
  Melinda Lee: Do you think that a lot of the… I love that, because I love the intentionality about it.
• 12:20
  Melinda Lee: the conversation that you're having around it, like, I see what you're doing, and I mean, maybe leaders are unintentionally going back, too, to urgency, and then forgetting the strategy, or not forgetting, but it's hard sometimes to be…
• 12:35
  Rounak Kharait: It is hard, absolutely, it is hard, and leaders have their own reasons to take that, right? There are financial pressures, there are pressures from the board of directors that come in, so… Again, that's the challenge for the leader, especially middle management, right? We have to balance.
• 12:50
  Melinda Lee: Well…
• 12:51
  Rounak Kharait: both, right? We have to balance up, and we have to balance down.
• 12:54
  Rounak Kharait: So it's kind of a hard role to be in.
• 12:57
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 12:57
  Rounak Kharait: One thing as a leader that we have to do is be okay with
• 13:01
  Rounak Kharait: not everybody being happy. It's very hard, and for someone like me, who wants to try to make everybody happy, it was a big transition for me as a leader.
• 13:13
  Melinda Lee: I, I…
• 13:15
  Rounak Kharait: Try to make everybody happy, but at some point, one of my leaders in one of my roles told me, you have to decide who are you going to make unhappy.
• 13:24
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:25
  Rounak Kharait: You can't keep everybody happy at the same time. It's just not physically possible. So, you have to come up with a strategy and think and talk them through based on their personality on why you're taking this decision. So, as leader, I have grown in that, because we take the call, right? We are taking the decision, and we are going to take the fall if there is a mistake.
• 13:46
  Rounak Kharait: So, it's both an ownership and accountability as well, so…
• 13:50
  Rounak Kharait: That comes from being a leader and just, you know, learning from it.
• 13:56
  Melinda Lee: Oh man, it is very challenging. I think for many people, as they go to middle management.
• 14:01
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, yep.
• 14:03
  Melinda Lee: Because we're accustomed to wanting to have success, and wanting everybody to be happy, where the people, like you said, the people that are actually people leaders care. And so the people leaders, want to have success, and also people care, and people happy, and so to balance all from the top down and below is definitely quite a challenge.
• 14:24
  Rounak Kharait: It's quite a challenge, but it's fun. Fun too.
• 14:27
  Melinda Lee: I love it! And so, in your book that you wrote, and the philosophies that you've taken from your coach or mentors no longer here, would you like to talk more about some of the philosophies on building resilient teams?
• 14:39
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, some of the chapters of the book kind of talk about how you lay the foundation. You know, the first one is laying the foundation, and that goes on the lines of understanding your team members.
• 14:52
  Melinda Lee: Right? It's just not about.
• 14:53
  Rounak Kharait: You know, how… what work they do and what subject matter expertise they bring in, but it's also about who they are.
• 15:01
  Rounak Kharait: What kind of personality they have, what, you know, who are their families, what they'd like to do, because you understand their personality is more… is important when you are assigning them tasks.
• 15:13
  Rounak Kharait: For example, if you are looking at a problem which requires big picture thinking.
• 15:18
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Rounak Kharait: You can't give it to a person who does the job what
• 15:24
  Rounak Kharait: is given to them. And that's a good trait, right? But it's not for a big picture kind of a project, so you understand the personalities, so that's one.
• 15:32
  Rounak Kharait: A couple of others which I can talk about here is, experimentation is a part of being a leader.
• 15:39
  Melinda Lee: Right? When you know your team members, when you've laid the foundation.
• 15:42
  Rounak Kharait: You experiment with
• 15:44
  Rounak Kharait: giving people some of the challenges that you think they could do, but maybe they don't have the confidence. You build confidence in them, push them a little bit, because unless you experiment, you'll never know.
• 15:56
  Melinda Lee: Right?
• 15:57
  Rounak Kharait: And I've given examples in the book on that one, like, and… as leader.
• 16:02
  Rounak Kharait: You have to be okay with that experiment to fail.
• 16:05
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:05
  Rounak Kharait: Right? But it's important not to make that same mistake again, which is another chapter in my book, like, allowing mistakes and embracing them.
• 16:13
  Rounak Kharait: Right? As a leader, if your team member is making a mistake, it is okay. Like, we have to embrace it, but then help them understand why that happened, and make sure that doesn't happen again.
• 16:26
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. You make a new mistake.
• 16:28
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. And the same mistake shouldn't happen again. Yeah.
• 16:30
  Rounak Kharait: So stuff like that, you know, as I was growing, you know, as a teenager, when I was appointed the captain of the team, my coach helped me understand all of these, because it's a team where you have only a certain number of players can play, certain number of players have to be out of the team.
• 16:48
  Melinda Lee: Ugh.
• 16:49
  Rounak Kharait: Right? So it is the reality, right? So I have to, as a captain, I have to explain that.
• 16:53
  Rounak Kharait: To not only the player, but also at that time, their parents, who were extremely passionate about why their kid is not in the playing starting 11.
• 17:03
  Rounak Kharait: So I was doing that age 13, 14, along with my coach.
• 17:07
  Melinda Lee: Oh, wow.
• 17:08
  Rounak Kharait: So that, again, so I'm using the same concept, right? It's the same concept where you're trying to have, maybe, difficult conversations with some people, how to do that, how to approach that. I learned that from my coach and from the leaders that I have been privileged enough to work with.
• 17:28
  Melinda Lee: And those are so important and so powerful, because at the end of the day, it's the teams and the people within the teams that are producing and supporting the company and, helping to connect to the growth and the…
• 17:45
  Melinda Lee: the profitability of the company, so it's like all of these people working together is more, sustainable, successful, when everybody can work together, but that does require that you get to know each individual, on its own, and what are their key strengths, what, you know, how do you bring out those strengths, and giving them assignments that stretch them, so…
• 18:07
  Rounak Kharait: And so…
• 18:07
  Melinda Lee: Don't be afraid if they…
• 18:08
  Rounak Kharait: Fail, and, so they can learn.
• 18:12
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Rounak Kharait: And you learn as a leader, too, right? You'll know, oh, I experimented here, I failed, and then I'm not going to make that same mistake again, so…
• 18:21
  Melinda Lee: How do you balance, like, not over-micromanaging.
• 18:24
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah.
• 18:24
  Melinda Lee: Allowing them to, you know, be creative.
• 18:28
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, very good question.
• 18:31
  Rounak Kharait: initially, when I'm trying to get to know the team, it is more difficult to… to have that balance between micromanaging and, you know, letting them be and being more creative. But as I get to learn more, again, I make
• 18:47
  Rounak Kharait: I make mistakes, but I go… that last time I did this versus this, so this was the result, so I need to, you know, improve. But you have to start somewhere.
• 18:56
  Rounak Kharait: Right, and that… I take a decision based on the personality. Again, I spoke about, you know, I know that person is a big picture thinker versus.
• 19:06
  Rounak Kharait: A doer who is going to put his or her head down and do work.
• 19:10
  Rounak Kharait: Got it. I'm going to try to…
• 19:13
  Rounak Kharait: trust and trust them to do their job. That's another thing. At a level that we… we come up and, you know, we have employees, we have to trust what people do.
• 19:22
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 19:23
  Rounak Kharait: it's inherent. We can't just not trust them. Right. So, a lot of micromanagement also kind of shows a lack of trust.
• 19:31
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 19:32
  Rounak Kharait: And so we have to find that balance, like, you know, you…
• 19:35
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 19:35
  Rounak Kharait: enough trust, but also you need to… because you are accountable. Right. So you need to also be sure what's going on and give them… give them feedback and learn from them as well.
• 19:46
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, some people might need a little bit more management. Correct. And some people like it, but some people don't. Some people don't want it.
• 19:54
  Rounak Kharait: Yep, so it's a hard load, like I… like I wrote in my book, leadership is… especially for engineers, Melinda, we are thinking binary, right? It's black and white, it's one, zero or one. But leadership is not that.
• 20:09
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:09
  Rounak Kharait: Leadership is… is gray, leadership is 0.2, point… it can be… it depends. Right. It depends.
• 20:16
  Melinda Lee: We do not like that as engineers.
• 20:18
  Rounak Kharait: We do not like that as engineers at all. It has to be either 0 or 1, or back or right, but as leaders, that's the challenge, because we are thinking in that spectrum all the time.
• 20:28
  Rounak Kharait: But it's not the way. We have to be comfortable with being gray, or being somewhere in between.
• 20:35
  Melinda Lee: Yes!
• 20:36
  Rounak Kharait: Making the same decision at… In different ways.
• 20:39
  Melinda Lee: Yes!
• 20:40
  Rounak Kharait: We have to be okay with that, but…
• 20:42
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 20:42
  Rounak Kharait: As long as we can have the spectrum analyzed.
• 20:47
  Melinda Lee: Oh, that's good.
• 20:48
  Rounak Kharait: I don't care.
• 20:49
  Melinda Lee: And I think that's a really great point, because as leaders, and I think because it is so ambiguous, but I feel like the more…
• 20:56
  Melinda Lee: ambiguous, the more you're taking charge and leading in the ambiguous, and being okay with just, like, how you mirror with your direct reports, or your… you know, like, me as a leader, I'm gonna make mistakes. Like, the more a leader can be…
• 21:10
  Melinda Lee: open like that and have those conversations. We're more free as leaders to lead with making mistakes and it being okay without trying to hide. Because ultimately, we need the whole team.
• 21:23
  Rounak Kharait: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 21:24
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Rounak Kharait: capabilities of…
• 21:26
  Rounak Kharait: is okay. It's okay. And being open about that is okay. It's not expected for the leader to know everything.
• 21:34
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, and that's the gray area, and that is the hard part.
• 21:37
  Rounak Kharait: That is the hard part, that is a hard part, and I'm learning from it, like, I've… I'm now… if I don't know something, I don't… from the hip, right? I say I don't know.
• 21:46
  Melinda Lee: I think you mastered it. You wrote a book. Come on.
• 21:52
  Rounak Kharait: I'm trying to, I'm trying to, you know, like my coach said, you're always a student of the game, right? You never think you are great.
• 22:00
  Melinda Lee: That's a true leader.
• 22:02
  Rounak Kharait: That is the true definition.
• 22:04
  Melinda Lee: leader, we're constantly learning, and that's… we're okay with it. So we're already… it's great, it's great. So I feel like there's so much information in here, leading from… going from how do we, you know, distill all these urgent and,
• 22:19
  Melinda Lee: urgent and fires that we, you know, down to the important, and then down to how do we pass information on to our, our team. Like, there's so much information in here, and so if you were to give the listener one key takeaway, what might that be?
• 22:37
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, one key takeaway would be, you know, remain calm, and think about, you know, what strategies that we could follow to
• 22:47
  Rounak Kharait: held… Prioritize and help understand what's actually important and urgent.
• 22:53
  Rounak Kharait: And… portray that… Confidence and calmness to the team.
• 22:59
  Rounak Kharait: Because if you are confident and calm.
• 23:02
  Rounak Kharait: Then the team is confident and calm.
• 23:04
  Melinda Lee: I love it.
• 23:05
  Rounak Kharait: So that would be my message, yeah.
• 23:07
  Melinda Lee: Thank you. That was beautiful. Ronak, that was amazing, and I think that they're very lucky to have you, your teams are lucky to have you, E3 Consulting. Thank you so much for what you're doing with the renewable energies across the globe, it's so important.
• 23:24
  Melinda Lee: In today's world, and yeah, I think that we need to do more to really protect our environment, so thank you so much.
• 23:30
  Rounak Kharait: Thank you. Thank you, Maninda. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
• 23:34
  Melinda Lee: It's really fun.
• 23:35
  Rounak Kharait: Good floor, thank you.
• 23:36
  Melinda Lee: And thank you, listeners, for being here. I trust that you got your takeaway implemented right away. And also, if you want to get the book, Ronak, would you like to tell them about your book?
• 23:48
  Rounak Kharait: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Melinda. So, my book is available on Amazon and on Kindle as well, so I'll send the link across, Melinda, and maybe you can add it to the podcast notes, and then people can get that.
• 24:00
  Melinda Lee: Definitely, yeah, so pick up the book and implement the strategies. And remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate, you're also connecting and making a positive difference in other people's lives. So, until next time, take care. Bye-bye. Thank you, Roanoke!
• 24:18
  Rounak Kharait: Thank you.