Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Deciphering The “Trump Doctrine” + The Dreams & Drama Of The LeBron Lakers

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Full Episode - Deciphering The “Trump Doctrine” + The Dreams & Drama Of The LeBron Lakers · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. Hello, they're in Happy early
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Speaker 1: new year to you. I am coming to you on Monday,
1:47
Speaker 1: December twenty ninth. Full disclosure and recording on Sunday, December
1:51
Speaker 1: twenty eighth. I always want to put those timestamps out
1:54
Speaker 1: there just to give a little context and perspective from
1:58
Speaker 1: where where I am speaking. From today's episode, I've got
2:05
Speaker 1: a little bit on sort of what's happening. You know, currently,
2:09
Speaker 1: the US military is in the middle of a couple
2:11
Speaker 1: of different military campaigns, and I want to talk about that.
2:14
Speaker 1: What's happening in Nigeria, what's happening in Venezuela, and a
2:17
Speaker 1: little bit of sort of how this fits into the
2:19
Speaker 1: larger picture of America's role in the world and the whatever,
2:25
Speaker 1: and sort of the Trump doctrine, what does it mean anymore?
2:28
Speaker 1: Is there a doctrine beyond the word transaction. I'll get
2:32
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. I have a great interview.
2:34
Speaker 1: I did conduct it a few weeks ago, and honestly
2:37
Speaker 1: I saved it for what I thought would be a
2:39
Speaker 1: good period to have this conversation. And it's with author
2:43
Speaker 1: Yourn Weizman. He wrote a book called Hollywood Ending. Basically
2:49
Speaker 1: it's about Lebron James and the Lakers and the whole
2:54
Speaker 1: attempt to get him there, how long that process took,
2:59
Speaker 1: as well as is sort of how hard it has
3:01
Speaker 1: been for Lebron and the Lakers, who are both sort
3:05
Speaker 1: of amazing brands, and it hasn't been the merger of success.
3:10
Speaker 1: Then one might have imagined I've got some you know,
3:15
Speaker 1: I will confess to growing up a Laker fan. Really,
3:17
Speaker 1: what I grew up was as a Magic Johnson fan.
3:20
Speaker 1: Those of us in mind, we didn't have we have
3:23
Speaker 1: the Miami Tropics, I guess from the old ABA, but
3:27
Speaker 1: I have this zero memory of them. So I'm not
3:29
Speaker 1: going to pretend I do shoot. Even the University of
3:32
Speaker 1: Miami didn't have College Basket Division in college basketball until
3:35
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, till I was thirteen years old. So
3:37
Speaker 1: basketball in South Florida was always a bit. It was
3:41
Speaker 1: almost as sort of foreign as hockey was in South
3:48
Speaker 1: Florida in the seventies and eighties. Now, I think it's
3:51
Speaker 1: fair to say, because there's always been a very strong,
3:54
Speaker 1: underrated high school basketball scene, but basketball, very much where
3:58
Speaker 1: I grew up was the third sport, and in some
4:00
Speaker 1: cases the fourth sport, the other ones being football, baseball, soccer,
4:06
Speaker 1: and then you get to basketball. I think that has
4:08
Speaker 1: flipped a bit, but it's still a strong baseball culture
4:11
Speaker 1: in South Florida, still a strong soccer culture in South Florida.
4:15
Speaker 1: In the competitive sports, obviously an extraordinarily strong football. But
4:20
Speaker 1: as we've watched the SEC grow into a bigger power
4:26
Speaker 1: in basketball, the improvement in high school basketball in Florida
4:32
Speaker 1: has only you know, if you have these great athletes
4:34
Speaker 1: for baseball, these great athletes for football, there's going to
4:37
Speaker 1: be great athletes for basketball. It is not ironically the
4:42
Speaker 1: DMV where I live today is considered in some ways
4:44
Speaker 1: a better recruiting hotbed for basketball than South Florida? Is
4:48
Speaker 1: I throw all that in there so that if you
4:50
Speaker 1: were a basketball fan when I was in the eighties,
4:52
Speaker 1: you were more likely in Miami to identify with a player.
4:56
Speaker 1: I was a Magic Johnson guy. I had a friend
4:58
Speaker 1: who was a Larry Bird guy. I had another friend
5:00
Speaker 1: who was a Michael Jordan guy. I had another friend
5:02
Speaker 1: who was a Kareem guy. And the point was, what
5:05
Speaker 1: did that mean? Well, you actually tried to emulate how
5:08
Speaker 1: they played, right when you were playing your version of
5:10
Speaker 1: pickup basketball. Shoot, I used to dribble super high as
5:13
Speaker 1: if I was somehow a six' nine point guard Like Magic,
5:16
Speaker 1: johnson when of Course i'm five by that point at,
5:19
Speaker 1: thirteen probably five, three five, Four But i'm dribbling as
5:22
Speaker 1: If i'm some six' nine point guard. RIGHT now i
5:26
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun to play pick up basketball
5:28
Speaker 1: WITH because i enjoyed making a. Great. Pass right that
5:31
Speaker 1: was the, you know the identity that you Had With.
5:33
Speaker 1: Magic johnson and the point being is THAT so i
5:36
Speaker 1: rooted For the lakers primarily through the Lens Of. Magic
5:39
Speaker 1: johnson HOW did i? Know? This Well when miami finally
5:41
Speaker 1: got a team at. The HEAT when i moved and
5:43
Speaker 1: had everyday Basketball, IN washington i realized it Wasn't THE lakers,
5:48
Speaker 1: i followed It Was, magic, Johnson right and my disconnect
5:51
Speaker 1: From the lakers Happened When magic johnson essentially stopped being
5:55
Speaker 1: a primary the primary star Of, the LAKERS and i.
5:59
Speaker 2: Moved on and it's still sort of.
6:01
Speaker 1: Both the strength OF the nba and the weakness OF the,
6:04
Speaker 1: nba said it's very much, individual driven not. Team driven Outside,
6:08
Speaker 1: The lakers celtics and to a lesser extent, than, next
6:11
Speaker 1: right there certainly are people that are passionate more about
6:14
Speaker 1: the team than. The player but you look at you
6:16
Speaker 1: Go To, los angeles There are laker fans and There are,
6:18
Speaker 1: kobe fans and they're not always the. Same thing There
6:21
Speaker 1: Are magic johnson Fans and, laker fans and yes there's
6:23
Speaker 1: a shared, ven diagram but it's not always the. Same
6:26
Speaker 1: thing and that's WHAT makes i think this book compelling.
6:29
Speaker 1: TO me, i mean it's a. Business book this IS
6:32
Speaker 1: why i think. It's worth it's a, culture book understanding,
6:36
Speaker 1: you know the modern day. CULTURAL sports, i mean, you
6:38
Speaker 1: know in Many Case lebron james is going to be
6:41
Speaker 1: one of the foremost important, millennials, ever right he is
6:46
Speaker 1: in when it comes. To sports he very much was transformational,
6:51
Speaker 1: to sports to the culture, of sports the business, of
6:55
Speaker 1: sports the player, empowerment era all of. Those things and
7:00
Speaker 1: so this IS why i enjoyed. This book this IS
7:01
Speaker 1: why i enjoy. This conversation this is not about on.
7:04
Speaker 1: The court this is about sort of the zeitgeist off.
7:07
Speaker 1: The court it's about the business, of basketball the business,
7:10
Speaker 1: of Sport, the Lakers the, bus family all of. Those
7:12
Speaker 1: THINGS so i do think it's my long way, of, saying,
7:16
Speaker 1: ultimately right you get book interviews that, interest Me and
7:19
Speaker 1: i'm hoping that my interest in it translates into making
7:22
Speaker 1: you interested. In. It right that's sort of the compact
7:26
Speaker 1: we all make here with the podcast world that we
7:29
Speaker 1: all live in. These days, so fully this is something that,
7:34
Speaker 1: interests ME and i know there's a subset of my
7:37
Speaker 1: audience it's interested. In it if you're, normally not this
7:40
Speaker 1: is why we give you. The option you don't a
7:42
Speaker 1: way to have to listen to every. INDIVIDUAL interview, I
7:44
Speaker 1: DO but i do think even if you're not a,
7:47
Speaker 1: sports fan the community in and around All Things lebron
7:54
Speaker 1: james is something that even if you're not a, sports
7:56
Speaker 1: junkie is something that you is worth understanding and worth
8:02
Speaker 1: understanding in in. Greater details, SO anyway i enjoyed. This Conversation,
8:07
Speaker 1: UH so i thought i'd give you a little bit of.
8:09
Speaker 1: My Backstory and i'm curious please. Share away how many,
8:13
Speaker 1: of you particularly if you're in sort of the, aar
8:17
Speaker 1: more found. Your way like my son's A Huge phoenix.
8:20
Speaker 1: Suns fan why Because Of. Devin booker he's never Lived.
8:23
Speaker 1: In phoenix we've never Lived, in phoenix we have no Connection,
8:26
Speaker 1: to phoenix but he in some ways. Got there he
8:28
Speaker 1: THINKS to NBA two K and booker was the young
8:32
Speaker 1: guy when he, started following and he gravitated toward the more,
8:35
Speaker 1: young players which is what young fans. Typically do, you
8:38
Speaker 1: know you don't when you first become a Fan, of swarm.
8:40
Speaker 1: You don't you don't gravitate to, the. Veteran right you
8:42
Speaker 1: gravitate to the, hot rookie to the person that's only
8:45
Speaker 1: a few years older. Than you it's somebody you have
8:47
Speaker 1: a better chance of. Identifying with And so i'm curious
8:50
Speaker 1: how many of you FIND yourself nba fans but got
8:54
Speaker 1: there through, a player not, a team, you know and,
8:58
Speaker 1: it's funny it's IT'S it's I and i lived and
9:01
Speaker 1: Died Those. LAKERS celtics i got suspended for school for
9:03
Speaker 1: a fight Over, a lakers, you know. BASICALLY gloating i
9:08
Speaker 1: gloated in front of My, friend seconday last day, of
9:11
Speaker 1: school gloated in front of him After the lakers one
9:15
Speaker 1: in eighty five and.
9:21
Speaker 2: He just socked me in. THE face i socked.
9:23
Speaker 1: Him back we got a Fight over Burden. And magic
9:26
Speaker 1: i'm on the Side, of magic he's on the Side.
9:28
Speaker 1: Of bird.
9:30
Speaker 2: And we hugged.
9:31
Speaker 1: It out we, were fine but it was sort, of
9:32
Speaker 1: like that's that's the power, of, Sport right but that's.
9:34
Speaker 1: How INTENSE and i always ASSOCIATED The nba finals with
9:38
Speaker 1: the last week of school back in the in, the
9:41
Speaker 1: day so it all sort of came. Together there but
9:44
Speaker 1: before we get to, THE interview i kind of want
9:48
Speaker 1: to answer a QUESTION that i kept getting from friends
9:50
Speaker 1: and family over the last, few days and that was
9:54
Speaker 1: an interpretation Of the President's truth, social feed which many
9:59
Speaker 1: people don't See truth social but see it PERHAPS on
10:03
Speaker 1: x or they, see it, you know repost It. ON instagram,
10:06
Speaker 1: i mean it is interesting how this works now and,
10:11
Speaker 1: of course you've heard me get into the mistake collectively
10:15
Speaker 1: the world made in his attempt to try To Deplatform
10:18
Speaker 1: donald Trump after. January sixth by, the way my what
10:21
Speaker 1: if episode is coming later this week and early. Next
10:23
Speaker 1: week you're going to get a couple of my, what
10:25
Speaker 1: ifs including What If donald trump had won the twenty.
10:27
Speaker 1: Twenty election BUT before i don't want to give away
10:31
Speaker 1: too much of the store. On that but ever since,
10:36
Speaker 1: right truth social been his primary way, to communicate and
10:40
Speaker 1: people on x, repost it People on instagram, repost it
10:43
Speaker 1: gets reposted on TikTok all the other social, media platforms
10:45
Speaker 1: and being the president Of The, united states, YOU know
10:48
Speaker 1: i do think there are things that don't get reposted
10:50
Speaker 1: that if people saw them, more intently they would be
10:53
Speaker 1: even more troubled by the psyche of. This PRESIDENT but
10:59
Speaker 1: i got kept getting a question about one specific thing
11:04
Speaker 1: he tweeted, or truthed however you want to, call it
11:08
Speaker 1: and that is when he was, tweeting about like just
11:10
Speaker 1: his Anger, over epstein which clearly anything that anything that
11:14
Speaker 1: makes him look bad he gets. Angry about and, you
11:16
Speaker 1: know sort of the grievance, comes out, the victimization and,
11:19
Speaker 1: you know let's make other people pay the price before
11:22
Speaker 1: he has to pay. The, Price right Let's called vernie and,
11:25
Speaker 1: said this and it was, something like this may be
11:27
Speaker 1: your Last, merry christmas. You KNOW and i had a
11:30
Speaker 1: lot of, people go what does he mean? By that,
11:32
Speaker 1: you know seeing it as, a threat seeing it as what?
11:36
Speaker 1: Is it and, you, KNOW look i will fully CONFESS
11:40
Speaker 1: that i ignore most of his, YOU know i. SEE
11:43
Speaker 1: them i ignore most of them because IT really i
11:46
Speaker 1: don't believe he. Means anything this is. TO me i
11:49
Speaker 1: think about the time period with which we get most.
11:52
Speaker 1: Of these we get him after ten o'clock, at night
11:57
Speaker 1: sometimes at three or four in The Morning east, coast time.
12:01
Speaker 1: You KNOW and i think we all think about the
12:03
Speaker 1: person in your life that you notice is on social
12:06
Speaker 1: media a lot at. Odd hours these are people that
12:10
Speaker 1: have some form. Of anxiety perhaps they're, super lonely maybe
12:14
Speaker 1: things aren't going well. At home and THAT'S what i
12:17
Speaker 1: always come back to when you have the president doing
12:21
Speaker 1: This On, christmas Day On christmas, eve night going all,
12:26
Speaker 1: through this and you're, asking yourself oh, my god what
12:29
Speaker 1: is wrong with? This MAN and i look at it
12:32
Speaker 1: as a this is a cry. For help this guy.
12:34
Speaker 1: Is lonely he really doesn't have anybody he's. Close with
12:41
Speaker 1: IT is i know this will come across sounding like,
12:44
Speaker 1: a hater but you know. He doesn't. He is he
12:47
Speaker 1: is close with his kids because he's supposed. To be
12:50
Speaker 1: but if, you know if you've done reporting about his
12:53
Speaker 1: actual personal relationships with, his kids you will know they're.
12:56
Speaker 1: Not great. There isn't it is a one. Way relationship
13:01
Speaker 1: and that's been. The problem all of his relationships are.
13:03
Speaker 1: One way he, uses people he, discards them which may
13:07
Speaker 1: explain why you never hear things like former college Roommate
13:11
Speaker 1: Of donald trump stopped By Mar a lago to hang out.
13:14
Speaker 1: With him, you know a friend that he grew up
13:17
Speaker 1: with has been, you know show it.
13:19
Speaker 2: Doesn't happen there are no.
13:21
Speaker 1: Old friends he has old acquaintances that he discards or
13:27
Speaker 1: uses whenever he. Deems. Necessary Right jeffrey epstein is probably
13:31
Speaker 1: the best version. Of this here was somebody he was quite,
13:33
Speaker 1: close to and then he drops him like a rock when.
13:39
Speaker 1: He starts and this is what he does When any
13:41
Speaker 1: he is not going to be a friend when you're.
13:44
Speaker 1: In trouble he expects you to be. A, friend though
13:47
Speaker 1: when he's, in TROUBLE and i think it explains why
13:51
Speaker 1: that on a Day Like, christmas day when most of
13:54
Speaker 1: us the last thing we're going to be doing is
13:58
Speaker 1: behaving lonely on, the internet, he does and it is
14:05
Speaker 1: most people, ignore it most people don't. SEE it i
14:08
Speaker 1: do view it as some, sort of, you know personal cry,
14:11
Speaker 1: for help which IS why i very much think that
14:13
Speaker 1: his social issues really do are a part of sort
14:18
Speaker 1: of the lack of character that he has to be
14:22
Speaker 1: leader of the. Free world but that's NOT where i
14:24
Speaker 1: want to focus, that conversation BECAUSE what i really want
14:27
Speaker 1: to there is something else that we learned via his
14:31
Speaker 1: feed all Through the christmas sort of that thirty six
14:34
Speaker 1: hour period of a little Bit Before christmas day and
14:37
Speaker 1: a little bit Of After, christmas day and that is
14:40
Speaker 1: sort Of the trump doctrine was on. Full Display right
14:46
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a consistent moral Compass in american
14:49
Speaker 1: form policy, right now you're not just looking in the.
14:52
Speaker 1: Wrong place you're looking at a map that's been rewritten by.
14:55
Speaker 1: A sharpie and if you want to Understand what i'm,
15:00
Speaker 1: by that don't start with this national, security Strategy which
15:02
Speaker 1: i've already explained in detail a few. Episodes ago don't
15:07
Speaker 1: start With a. Pentagon, briefing instead you have to start
15:09
Speaker 1: with the truth social Feed Of donald Trump's On, christmas
15:13
Speaker 1: day because over that thirty six Hour Stretch, Christmas Eve,
15:16
Speaker 1: christmas day and the, morning effort you actually could see
15:19
Speaker 1: The entire trump second term worldview play out in. Real
15:23
Speaker 1: time there were, holiday greetings there were, religious proclamations there,
15:27
Speaker 1: were threats there were, missile strikes there were, deportation talks
15:31
Speaker 1: ominous warnings that sounded more like a mob boss than
15:35
Speaker 1: a head. Of state and it. Wasn't chaos it. Wasn't
15:38
Speaker 1: doctrine it was just. Simply doctrine it was. Not chaos
15:42
Speaker 1: so let's walk through. It all so in the twenty
15:44
Speaker 1: four Hours, Before Christmas donald trump was already setting. The
15:47
Speaker 1: tone he's Doing The norrad, santa, calls right the simplest
15:52
Speaker 1: thing you're supposed to do, as president, you know having
15:54
Speaker 1: a little Fun with norad is santaw are We tracking
15:56
Speaker 1: santa around? The globe but, even there he's warning About
16:00
Speaker 1: bad santa's infiltrating. The country border rhetoric wrapped. In tinsel by,
16:06
Speaker 1: the way it Sounds Like donald trump is a fan
16:09
Speaker 1: of my single favorite Cheech and chong RECORD that i.
16:14
Speaker 2: Owned on, forty five and that.
16:16
Speaker 1: Is his Tale Of santa claus where he's stopped by. Border,
16:26
Speaker 1: patrol anyway. It is if you've Never heard Chiech and
16:29
Speaker 1: Chong And, santa claus Please. It's cheech tell him the
16:33
Speaker 1: Story Of. Santa Claus, to chong, it's amazing it's FANTASTIC
16:38
Speaker 1: and i used to have it memorized at the age.
16:40
Speaker 1: Of eight don't judge. My parents so he's talking About.
16:46
Speaker 1: Bad santam then comes the now famous Post Wishing merry
16:49
Speaker 1: christmas to the of course radical. Left scum so he
16:52
Speaker 1: always wants to attack fellow, human beings call them scum
16:55
Speaker 1: if they politically don't agree.
16:56
Speaker 2: With, him again pretty much the worst ATTRIBUTE.
17:00
Speaker 1: The us president, could have particularly. This, one then of
17:03
Speaker 1: course there's he attacks on, the media the threats to
17:04
Speaker 1: review broadcast licenses because he was mad because again he's
17:07
Speaker 1: lonely and he has nothing to do but, watch television watch.
17:10
Speaker 1: Late television he gets mad and they're making jokes at,
17:13
Speaker 1: his expense and he. Feels isolated all of this Was before,
17:16
Speaker 1: christmas dinner and Then On christmas day itself. At Escalated early,
17:21
Speaker 1: christmas Morning the president announces that THERE are us military Strikes,
17:24
Speaker 1: in nigeria and he's described them as quote powerful and
17:27
Speaker 1: deadly AGAINST the isis. Affiliated, militants now obviously it was
17:31
Speaker 1: very important for him to create legal justification by claiming
17:35
Speaker 1: THIS was isis. Affiliated, militants okay, but listen but do
17:40
Speaker 1: listen carefully to. The language this wasn't about counter, terrorism
17:43
Speaker 1: capacity it wasn't Even about, nigerian sovereignty and it wasn't
17:48
Speaker 1: even about. Regional stability it was simply. About Religion the
17:51
Speaker 1: president framed the strikes as a Defense of christians from
17:54
Speaker 1: what he. Calls slaughter he literally wishes A merry christmas
17:58
Speaker 1: to quote the. Dead terrorists that's not, policy language that's. Civilization.
18:04
Speaker 1: Language okay And, In nigeria america isn't acting like a.
18:08
Speaker 1: Strategic partner it's acting like a. Moral avenger he literally
18:14
Speaker 1: thinks of this as part of. The crusades this is
18:17
Speaker 1: the first color of the trunk doctrine religious identity as
18:21
Speaker 1: a justification. For force and notice, Something important this only
18:25
Speaker 1: works WHERE the us can, act unilaterally not against non
18:29
Speaker 1: state actors with no risk. Of escalation that of course.
18:32
Speaker 1: Matters here now let's Move to venezuela And the. Western Hemisphere,
18:37
Speaker 1: in venezuela the language changes completely when he talks. About.
18:40
Speaker 1: It here it's not, about faith it's not about. Human
18:44
Speaker 1: rights it's. About ownership that's Why the minorman doctrine gets
18:49
Speaker 1: talked about quite. A bit when trying to understand his Motivation,
18:53
Speaker 1: with Venezuela the president boats about a massive. Naval presence
18:57
Speaker 1: he calls it. An armada he talks about oil that was,
19:00
Speaker 1: quote stolen about assets that must. Be returned this isn't,
19:06
Speaker 1: democracy PROMOTION although i could argue that's the better Justification,
19:10
Speaker 1: for venezuela but he never talks. About that this is repoman,
19:14
Speaker 1: to pumacy if. You will he sees himself as basically
19:18
Speaker 1: the thug Helping the american. Oil COMPANIES the us is
19:21
Speaker 1: acting less like a guaranter of regional stability and more
19:24
Speaker 1: like a collection agency with. Aircraft carriers that's pillar. Number
19:28
Speaker 1: two resources. Justify coersion and here's the. Key Distinction in
19:34
Speaker 1: venezuela's strength. Means Seizing, in nigeria strength. Means striking it's a.
19:40
Speaker 1: Different language it's the. Same, logic now let's Move. To,
19:43
Speaker 1: Ukraine right he's going to be meeting this week and
19:47
Speaker 1: we'll see if. Something happens, i'm skeptical which IS why
19:50
Speaker 1: i don't want to make a huge deal over the
19:52
Speaker 1: meeting and mar Lago between Zelenski. And trump but we
19:55
Speaker 1: See that zelensky is at least trying To keep trump,
19:59
Speaker 1: from striking, you know essentially some sort of Compact with
20:03
Speaker 1: russia and Essentially leaving ukraine on.
20:05
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21:27
Speaker 1: off so let's compare Both of Nigeria and venezuela To the,
21:34
Speaker 1: ukraine situation because this is where the moral code. Completely Disappears,
21:38
Speaker 1: in ukraine the rhetoric isn't, about civilization not Least from
21:42
Speaker 1: trump's point. Of view it isn't, about resources at least.
21:44
Speaker 1: Not upfront it's about ending, the bloodshed which sounds noble
21:49
Speaker 1: until you look at. The mechanics military, aid paused intelligence.
21:54
Speaker 1: Sharing throttled then the pressure is applied not to the
21:58
Speaker 1: invader but to, the person to the entity that. Was
22:01
Speaker 1: invaded and what's quietly folded into this so called peace
22:05
Speaker 1: plan a minerals deal that benefits Only The united, states, lithium.
22:09
Speaker 1: Titanium Uranium so ukraine's sovereignty is. Simply collateral this is pillar.
22:16
Speaker 1: Number three negotiating leverage beats. Moral clarity So in nigeria we.
22:22
Speaker 1: Fire Missiles, in venezuela we. Blockade Ports in ukraine we
22:26
Speaker 1: walk away and call. It strength so the question is
22:29
Speaker 1: how inconsistent is all? Of this is it inconsistency or
22:34
Speaker 1: is it simply? A system because there are. Many critics on,
22:38
Speaker 1: one hand you look at this and you say this
22:39
Speaker 1: is not coherent. At all it's. Completely incoherent but it
22:43
Speaker 1: depends on how you look at How trump. Use thinks
22:46
Speaker 1: and if you look at it through the umbrella of,
22:49
Speaker 1: selective transactionalism well then it all starts to. Work together
22:55
Speaker 1: military force is used when the enemy fits a domestic
22:58
Speaker 1: Political narrative christians for the, evangelical. Base migrants when it Comes,
23:03
Speaker 1: to venezuela the cost, is low Right then asuella as
23:07
Speaker 1: not really Attacking The, united States, neither's nigeria and the leverage.
23:12
Speaker 1: Is total when those conditions, don't exist Like Confronting vladimir Putin,
23:16
Speaker 1: or shijingping the moral language just. Completely vanishes that's why
23:22
Speaker 1: there are no missile strikes Over the Wigers.
23:24
Speaker 2: In.
23:24
Speaker 1: China right what's the difference between protecting that religious minority
23:31
Speaker 1: versus what the Persecution of Muslims In western china versus
23:35
Speaker 1: the Persecution of Christians. In nigeria that's why Me and
23:39
Speaker 1: mark gets, ignored again the same thing religious minorities essentially.
23:45
Speaker 1: A genocide That's why ukraine gets a spreadsheet instead of. A,
23:49
Speaker 1: Shield right so the question is what kind of long
23:55
Speaker 1: term change does this Create with america's relationship with. THE
23:59
Speaker 1: war i personally think this is damaging us for, a
24:03
Speaker 1: generation and it's going to take us a generation to
24:07
Speaker 1: win back enough allies to restore freedom and democracy around. The,
24:12
Speaker 1: World okay and you can call me an expansionist all. You,
24:16
Speaker 1: WANT yeah i am pro democracy and. PRO freedom i
24:21
Speaker 1: know that, every civilization, every tribe will take a different
24:26
Speaker 1: path to. Get there BUT ultimately i believe in what
24:30
Speaker 1: was written In the Declaration of independence that we have.
24:34
Speaker 1: Inalienable rights so what do our allies see in? All,
24:38
Speaker 1: this well here's the PART there i think matters. The
24:40
Speaker 1: most this Isn't changing american, form policy but it is
24:43
Speaker 1: Changing how americas perceived and europe leaders no longer are
24:46
Speaker 1: whispering about this. Issue anymore they're openly talking about what's called. Strategic,
24:50
Speaker 1: autonomy translation we Don't trust washington and we Can't trust.
24:54
Speaker 1: America anymore some that are very much in the isolation
24:59
Speaker 1: of Wings good europe should pay for their. Own security
25:02
Speaker 1: america shouldn't be. Doing it, To this i'm always ready
25:05
Speaker 1: to Respond, WITH okay i. Get it you Don't want
25:07
Speaker 1: america to be THE, world's beacp but you do know
25:10
Speaker 1: somebody's going to be the world's. Bee cop you really
25:12
Speaker 1: want putin and she to decide who the bea? Cop
25:14
Speaker 1: is or do you Want The united states? To decide
25:17
Speaker 1: but let me put a pin. In That, in nigeria
25:20
Speaker 1: officials are scrambling to have to walk back to the
25:22
Speaker 1: religious framing because they're now turning a counter terrorism operation legit.
25:27
Speaker 1: Counter terrorism this is. Radical extremism this isn't about some
25:31
Speaker 1: crusade fight Between the Christians. And MUSLIMS although i do
25:35
Speaker 1: think the president's trying to appease a small group of
25:38
Speaker 1: people in this country who do see it, as this
25:43
Speaker 1: but they're turning this count when you turn a counter
25:45
Speaker 1: terrorism operation into a quote, religious Crusade what nigerians fear
25:51
Speaker 1: is that this is going to put a target on their,
25:52
Speaker 1: own citizens because if you start to justify Killing via
25:57
Speaker 1: god rather than sort of via the actual humans living on,
26:01
Speaker 1: this planet that is how you get, more bloodshed and
26:06
Speaker 1: that's how you get no remorse with. That Bloodshed In,
26:09
Speaker 1: latin america governments That dislike maduro are Alarmed at america's
26:14
Speaker 1: behavior because if oil seizures, become precedent than any resource
26:20
Speaker 1: rich Country In latin america could. Be next america isn't
26:23
Speaker 1: being seen. As unreliable it's simply being seen, as, transactional
26:27
Speaker 1: frankly no Different. Than china and if we're going to
26:30
Speaker 1: behave the exact Same way, china does which is, essentially
26:32
Speaker 1: transactional pure, and simple then don't be surprised when people
26:37
Speaker 1: that used to be our, ally, say Huh maybe i'll
26:40
Speaker 1: get a better Deal. From china that's kind of, a
26:45
Speaker 1: problem don't, you think which gives us leads me TO
26:49
Speaker 1: what i believe is a. Brand, Problem now so for seventy,
26:52
Speaker 1: five years rightly, Or wrongly america sold. One idea we
26:55
Speaker 1: sold the idea that, borders matter that. Sovereignty matters and
27:00
Speaker 1: look what we did to defend the Sovereignty of. Kuwit successfully,
27:04
Speaker 1: mind you force is constrained by an accepted set. Of
27:08
Speaker 1: rules now the rule, is simple what's in it? For
27:12
Speaker 1: us and can we? Enforce it that's. Not leadership it's essentially. Portfolio.
27:17
Speaker 1: Management right he sees himself as the head of a
27:19
Speaker 1: private equity fund who's just trying to make that fund, more, financially, bigger.
27:28
Speaker 1: Wealthier etcetera and here's the but here's. The dangers if
27:33
Speaker 1: allies don't want to be, our customers they're going to,
27:36
Speaker 1: Shop Around. Hello beijing and if credibility, becomes conditional partnerships
27:44
Speaker 1: will become. Extraordinarily temporary so in a World with Moscow,
27:48
Speaker 1: in beijing this Is again putin's worldview is. Everything's transactional
27:51
Speaker 1: there is no, moral clarity there is no, you know
27:55
Speaker 1: democracy's bullshit as Far as. Putin's concerned and if we accept,
28:01
Speaker 1: his Worldview Which donald, trump does this is the. Huge
28:04
Speaker 1: problem and so does She and that's why. He gravitates
28:08
Speaker 1: that's why he won't confront when they, violate norms but
28:13
Speaker 1: he will confront anybody else who's quote smaller Than The
28:15
Speaker 1: united states when. THEY do i think it leads us.
28:20
Speaker 1: Very vulnerable so here's. The problem trump might get a
28:24
Speaker 1: few short term. Wins, here, hey look he protected a
28:27
Speaker 1: Handful of Christians. In nigeria maybe maybe he TOOK, out
28:31
Speaker 1: isis or maybe he just radicalized religious extremists even More
28:35
Speaker 1: in nigeria seizing. A, tanker okay you're going to create
28:41
Speaker 1: regime Change. In venezuela are we going to? Manage that
28:45
Speaker 1: or are we just going to walk away and let
28:48
Speaker 1: the chips fall where they? May not managing dictatorships that
28:53
Speaker 1: fall and helping with it leads to some really. Bad
28:56
Speaker 1: outcomes see My time Todd Cast time machine segments On
29:01
Speaker 1: The ottoman empire and the fall Of The soviet union basically.
29:05
Speaker 1: Another empire.
29:10
Speaker 2: But you can lose the.
29:11
Speaker 1: One asset we are losing the one asset that mattered,
29:14
Speaker 1: a lot and it's frankly an asset we talk about
29:17
Speaker 1: in my fight to restore legitimacy, and media and that.
29:23
Speaker 1: Is trust and once trust, is gone no amount, of
29:27
Speaker 1: missiles minerals or holiday posts can buy. It back we're
29:30
Speaker 1: not leading the world. Right now we're negotiating it one
29:34
Speaker 1: transaction of, a time and that's an extraordinarily risky thing
29:38
Speaker 1: for us. To do and We ignore trump's crazy on
29:41
Speaker 1: his social media posts because, we, think hell, you know he's,
29:45
Speaker 1: all bark very. Little bite but the bites he does
29:49
Speaker 1: DO and i agree the bites are smaller than. You
29:52
Speaker 1: think but the bites that he does do sets, us
29:55
Speaker 1: back sets us back on trust around, the world just
29:59
Speaker 1: like he. Has done he wants to any institution that
30:03
Speaker 1: has ever, been legitimate he tries. To delegitimize he did IT,
30:06
Speaker 1: With nato he's done it with. Mainstream media he. Does
30:09
Speaker 1: it he does it in so, many aspects does it
30:11
Speaker 1: with the rule. Of law he just, you know it is.
30:16
Speaker 1: It is he is in, some WAYS like, I said
30:18
Speaker 1: i want TO. Be tv i've called him, this before
30:22
Speaker 1: a WANNA be. Tv mobster real mobsters are sort of
30:26
Speaker 1: smaller and pettier and not as and not as Glamorous
30:30
Speaker 1: as trump builds him up in. His Head but trump
30:32
Speaker 1: is a creature, of, fiction right he. Is not his
30:37
Speaker 1: ideal is something he saw in. A movie or on a.
30:40
Speaker 1: Television show it's not something that's. Actually. Existing right this
30:44
Speaker 1: has always been the disconnect Between The donald trump Version
30:48
Speaker 1: of america and the actual Version. Of america What the
30:53
Speaker 1: america he wants to make great again is the one
30:55
Speaker 1: he Saw Via John. Wayne, films right it's Not the
30:58
Speaker 1: america that actually in the fifties. And sixties and so
31:03
Speaker 1: it is a bit of. A fantasy and it's just
31:05
Speaker 1: like what kind of leader he wants. To be he
31:07
Speaker 1: admires Guys Like john gotti on an, actual mobster but
31:12
Speaker 1: he also admires People. Like putin he does admire People Like,
31:16
Speaker 1: tony soprano a, fictional mobster because of the total and
31:20
Speaker 1: complete control. They had and that's ultimately, it's clear whatever
31:24
Speaker 1: it is that he's never had in, his life he
31:27
Speaker 1: keeps looking for something to have, more control to be,
31:31
Speaker 1: in charge to, be venerated to. Be wards but whatever,
31:35
Speaker 1: it is he's and in Some ways i've, always said lucky,
31:38
Speaker 1: for us he's still looking for some sort of human
31:42
Speaker 1: acknowledgment of, his existence which in some ways may explain
31:47
Speaker 1: why he behaves the way. He, behaves right he is desperate.
31:50
Speaker 1: For affection i've seen. It MYSELF when i compared HIM,
31:53
Speaker 1: TO fdr i didn't compare him positively. OR negatively i
31:56
Speaker 1: just compared. Him factually he saw it as a positive
31:59
Speaker 1: because that's what. He wants he wants to be seen
32:02
Speaker 1: as bigger than. The moment he wants to be seen
32:05
Speaker 1: as somebody who were all stuck learning about, in history
32:10
Speaker 1: whether we like it. Or not and in some ways
32:13
Speaker 1: he thinks. Great people your greatness is measured by how
32:19
Speaker 1: much impact, you have regardless of whether that impact is positive.
32:22
Speaker 1: OR negative i, really truly and this to me has
32:26
Speaker 1: always been the. Warning side you know. IT does, i
32:31
Speaker 1: mean it's alarming what we may end up Doing. With,
32:34
Speaker 1: Ukraine now i'm pretty confident the unintended consequence of this isolationist,
32:41
Speaker 1: foreign policy that the pres the sort, of transactional semi isolationist,
32:46
Speaker 1: foreign policies sort Of, anti europe is that it's going
32:49
Speaker 1: To strengthen europe and it's going to Make The european
32:51
Speaker 1: union a more an actual competitor to. Us economically it's
32:55
Speaker 1: going To strengthen europe's INVOLVEMENT in nato in such a
32:59
Speaker 1: way that we may we may miss the influence we.
33:03
Speaker 1: Once HAD so i do think There's and that's, the,
33:07
Speaker 1: Thing right there's always unintended consequences that develop when we
33:11
Speaker 1: try to engineer the world through, our prism and we
33:17
Speaker 1: want everybody to see things absolutely through the prism of
33:21
Speaker 1: how he wants to. Make things everybody else gets to
33:24
Speaker 1: say in. This too and while it looks like there's
33:29
Speaker 1: no consistency into this, foreign policy we are starting to see.
33:32
Speaker 1: A consistency he picks on smaller entities to try to make.
33:37
Speaker 1: A point he ultimately, sees things as, you know like
33:40
Speaker 1: he did With the. Iraqi oil he still to this
33:42
Speaker 1: day believes that oil Belongs to america since we Helped,
33:44
Speaker 1: liberate iraq that that should be. The price everything is,
33:48
Speaker 1: a transaction which is the exact Worldview That vladimir putin
33:53
Speaker 1: has been preaching since he took office at the start
33:57
Speaker 1: of this twenty. First Century, All right so with that
34:00
Speaker 1: we will transition From One christmas day unpacking of our
34:07
Speaker 1: politics to the other issue that pops Up Every, christmas
34:10
Speaker 1: day the relevance and INTEREST of. Nba basketball how's that
34:13
Speaker 1: for a really, ROUGH transition, i kid let's sneak in
34:18
Speaker 1: a break when we. Come back Your own whitzman on
34:21
Speaker 1: HIS Book A, Hollywood ending lebron And, the lakers and
34:25
Speaker 1: what has been an, uncomfortable partnership, Right Is lebron james
34:30
Speaker 1: is always going to be at least number four on
34:33
Speaker 1: the All time, laker list Right Behind. Magic kobe and
34:37
Speaker 1: there's a real there's a real generational debate of. Who's
34:41
Speaker 1: one Magic or kobe both have. Five titles who's won on?
34:44
Speaker 1: THAT one i KNOW where i. Come down Then, there's
34:47
Speaker 1: kareem who some argue should be above all, of. Them
34:50
Speaker 1: right Then There's wilt Chamberlain On lebron james kind of
34:55
Speaker 1: nomadish all timers who were mostly, is so who were
35:00
Speaker 1: associated With the lakers for, a time who did great
35:03
Speaker 1: things on, other franchises and SORT of i think the
35:08
Speaker 1: questions Are they lakers? Or not and you KNOW what
35:11
Speaker 1: i MEAN when i asked. That question, all right let's
35:14
Speaker 1: sneak in the break you're on watch not the. Native
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Speaker 1: side it's. Sponsorship time but you, know what it's really
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Speaker 1: great when you get a sponsor that you. Already use and.
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Speaker 1: Guess what quint's is something that In the todd household
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35:42
Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice. Doing It
35:45
Speaker 1: is i've become mister. Quarterzip guy well. Guess what guess
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Speaker 1: he's got amazing amounts of. Quarter zips it. IS quints
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37:06
Speaker 4: That.
37:06
Speaker 1: Code so as many of, You know i'm as a huge,
37:13
Speaker 1: sports fan even worked in the briefly helped found a
37:18
Speaker 1: publication focused. On sports i'm always obsessed with the nexus
37:21
Speaker 1: of sports culture politics. In, GENERAL obviously i think many
37:26
Speaker 1: of us now realize politics is downstream from culture as.
37:29
Speaker 1: IT is I also i am a huge believer that
37:31
Speaker 1: sports is something that actually is a way to knit
37:35
Speaker 1: the country's polarized communities, back together particularly on the. LOCAL
37:39
Speaker 1: level i still think it's the answer on. LOCAL news
37:42
Speaker 1: i say all that as my way of trying to
37:45
Speaker 1: give all of us the excuse who are focused on
37:48
Speaker 1: the political world every now and then to focus on my.
37:51
Speaker 1: Next guest it's Your. Own whitesman he's author of a
37:54
Speaker 1: new Book Called. Hollywood ending It's the Dreams and drama
37:58
Speaker 1: Of The lebron Lakers h, and yes it's going to
38:02
Speaker 1: be a bit about the drama of all things having
38:04
Speaker 1: to do With, the Lakers. Basketball LEBRON but i think
38:08
Speaker 1: we all it's fair To say lebron is part of
38:10
Speaker 1: the larger Zeitgeist of america and perhaps the Same Way
38:15
Speaker 1: taylor swift is part of the Zeitgeist. Of america people
38:17
Speaker 1: do want to know What does lebron Think About? Donald
38:20
Speaker 1: trump right type? Of thing, and oh by, the way
38:23
Speaker 1: What does lebron Think About? Michael jordan? Right like and
38:26
Speaker 1: in that sense that that is sort of the world we.
38:29
Speaker 1: Live in and that's part of my goal of this
38:31
Speaker 1: podcast is to sort of always have an aperture that's
38:34
Speaker 1: wide enough to include all aspects. Of that so there's
38:38
Speaker 1: my rationale and excuse for taking a love it break.
38:42
Speaker 1: Your ownA it's good to meet.
38:43
Speaker 5: YOU too i love, YOU know i Like that you're
38:47
Speaker 5: making me feel better.
38:48
Speaker 2: About myself so there.
38:49
Speaker 1: You go thank, you well You, pitched look you pitched
38:51
Speaker 1: me on this and you did probably say it's, a
38:53
Speaker 1: LOT but I have i've always been. YOU know i
38:57
Speaker 1: know a lot of people know that that follow me
38:58
Speaker 1: through politics know. That, it uh, you know a better
39:02
Speaker 1: than average sports fan Is how i'd like to present
39:05
Speaker 1: Myself that i'm Not an i'm not a moron, about
39:07
Speaker 1: IT and i do have strong feelings, about IT but
39:10
Speaker 1: I am i love the culture and IF if i
39:14
Speaker 1: could have trade trade careers, With, YOU roman i would have.
39:17
Speaker 1: Done it i'm guessing there's a lot of sports writers
39:20
Speaker 1: AND reporters i know that would love to be political writers,
39:22
Speaker 1: and reporters and there's a lot of political reporters and
39:25
Speaker 1: writers that would love to be.
39:26
Speaker 5: Sports reporter grass is, always, Greener RIGHT but i started
39:28
Speaker 5: in the, local, news right so when you talk about
39:30
Speaker 5: your local news stuff, and UH and i know what you're,
39:32
Speaker 5: doing now you know MY first i still joke that
39:34
Speaker 5: nobody was ever meaner to me Than the scarsdale to,
39:36
Speaker 5: this DAY including, nba people Than These Scarsdale new york
39:39
Speaker 5: cheerleading moms WHO thought i had something out against their
39:43
Speaker 5: CHILDREN who i weren't featuring enough at after. After, meet,
39:46
Speaker 5: so yeah you.
39:47
Speaker 2: You were born with a with a bias? Agonds cheerleaders
39:50
Speaker 2: is that? Trying? Naturally, yes, Correct.
39:52
Speaker 1: Correct well, in fact let's let's spend a couple of
39:54
Speaker 1: minutes tell me about how you, you know how you
39:58
Speaker 1: got to being a.
39:58
Speaker 2: Book author it always the goal of a lot.
40:00
Speaker 1: Of reporters can you get to the point where you
40:02
Speaker 1: don't have to do the day to day grind, as
40:04
Speaker 1: much where you can do the long, form reporting the
40:07
Speaker 1: eighteen month projects rather than the eighteen. Hour.
40:10
Speaker 5: Projects yeah so, FOR me, i MEAN so, i STARTED like,
40:13
Speaker 5: i said local news covering In the journal News In
40:15
Speaker 5: westchester rockland area and local sports. Out here, AND yeah
40:20
Speaker 5: I mean nba was always. My sport basketball is always my.
40:23
Speaker 5: Favorite sport and just, FOR me i learned early on
40:27
Speaker 5: that the sort of my, BRAIN works i like diving
40:29
Speaker 5: into subjects and kind of honing in on things and
40:32
Speaker 5: not being day. TO day i also saw sort of
40:34
Speaker 5: where the business was going and, THOUGHT that, i mean
40:38
Speaker 5: now it's maybe kind of the. Other way but, you
40:40
Speaker 5: know ten years ago there was this whole long form
40:42
Speaker 5: thing and, feature writing.
40:43
Speaker 2: And there was a bit of a renaissance.
40:44
Speaker 1: Around it in.
40:44
Speaker 5: A way if you can do good stuff that reporting,
40:47
Speaker 5: in it. That's part but the other part is it's.
40:49
Speaker 5: More imporing It's but I'm actually I'm a sabbath, observant
40:52
Speaker 5: JEW so i knew that being a beat writer was
40:55
Speaker 5: not necessarily going to be that wouldn't let itself Out on.
40:57
Speaker 5: Friday nights we taught of some stuff that, happened THERE
41:00
Speaker 5: so i have to sort of adjust.
41:01
Speaker 2: Around that so a mix. OF it I just i
41:04
Speaker 2: just even.
41:05
Speaker 5: THE way, i mean it's more of a media, conversation
41:07
Speaker 5: too but sort of so much as, SPORTS reporting i
41:09
Speaker 5: think other reporting, in general but sports reporting now has
41:12
Speaker 5: gone into, the. Insider right you have these main ten.
41:15
Speaker 5: Pole insiders Adrian wol zanowski was a name not, there
41:18
Speaker 5: anymore but these are, you know if you're not big
41:19
Speaker 5: sports fan who recognize, Somebody's Names adam schefter and the
41:24
Speaker 5: the day to day scoops go to them and just
41:26
Speaker 5: it's just it's been.
41:27
Speaker 2: Punted, basically otherwise well.
41:28
Speaker 1: It's access, YOU know i always, say this, YOU know
41:30
Speaker 1: i go to a lot of.
41:31
Speaker 2: Journalism, schools yeah.
41:33
Speaker 1: PARTICULARLY after i left meet the press as we try
41:35
Speaker 1: to figure out how to how to, you know how
41:36
Speaker 1: are we going to fix this sort of this, next
41:38
Speaker 1: generation a little bit of of of whether it's a
41:41
Speaker 1: trust issue and all. Of THAT and i talk about
41:44
Speaker 1: the different forms. Of journalism there's accountability, journalism there and,
41:47
Speaker 1: you know, in politics when you're an, access journalist that's
41:51
Speaker 1: as negative as. It, comes oh you're just you're just being.
41:53
Speaker 1: Spoon fed You're the, trump reporter or you're the Or
41:56
Speaker 1: the schumer reporter or something. Like that where in, sports
42:00
Speaker 1: sorts if you're not if you don't have access to,
42:03
Speaker 1: the building you can't do your job as the. Beat
42:06
Speaker 1: reporter it's. Not fair so you sometimes have to pull
42:10
Speaker 1: a punch because these are. Private organizations right, In politics
42:14
Speaker 1: i'm covering a taxpayer funded organization.
42:16
Speaker 2: And they, need, you right they need you to get
42:18
Speaker 2: the message, out.
42:18
Speaker 1: LIKE well i, don't know like arguably LESS so i
42:23
Speaker 1: would argue that that less on that it's more of
42:27
Speaker 1: we at least Have the Freedom Of, information, act right
42:30
Speaker 1: we have things that we can use because it's taxpayer
42:34
Speaker 1: funded and they can't really, you know we Have That, first,
42:37
Speaker 1: amendment right and it is About The first amendment is
42:41
Speaker 1: about government getting in the way a private organization can
42:45
Speaker 1: decide who they. Talk to any anytime. They WANT and
42:47
Speaker 1: i remember we locally we got a taste of this
42:51
Speaker 1: when The Then washington redskins, now Commanders When dan schneider.
42:56
Speaker 1: Opened him he just Barred The washington post from being
42:58
Speaker 1: able to cover. The organize So The washington posts could
43:02
Speaker 1: cover The Controversy, rondane schneyder but they couldn't tell you
43:05
Speaker 1: who was injured this week and was who was practicing
43:08
Speaker 1: this week because they weren't. Allowed in and that was
43:11
Speaker 1: a disservice to the readers Of The. Washington POST so
43:14
Speaker 1: i always struggle with this issue in sports of just,
43:18
Speaker 1: you know there's no doubt you just identified there's like
43:20
Speaker 1: three or four guys that get all. The handouts but those.
43:23
Speaker 1: Are handouts let's not pretend they're anything other though, for
43:25
Speaker 1: sure one.
43:26
Speaker 5: Hundred percent that's a big part, of, It RIGHT and,
43:28
Speaker 5: i mean now we're not and it becomes, you know
43:30
Speaker 5: anonymous horses For reasons i'm not really fully, sure why
43:34
Speaker 5: and so so for me it is kind of, Figuring,
43:36
Speaker 5: Out okay i'm not going to be one of, Those
43:37
Speaker 5: guys so what's the? Other lane and the other lane
43:39
Speaker 5: is sort of this more in. DEPTH reporting, i mean
43:42
Speaker 5: what you're saying is, so true and it's this is
43:44
Speaker 5: not me selling the book in, this.
43:45
Speaker 2: Way but like one of the THREE reasons I thought
43:47
Speaker 2: i could write.
43:47
Speaker 5: The book I'm A, NEW yorker i don't Cover the lakers,
43:49
Speaker 5: a lot and there were issues With the lakers, at
43:52
Speaker 5: ME but i don't rely on them like THE arena
43:54
Speaker 5: i go, TO mostly i Go To Masive. Square garden
43:56
Speaker 5: that's THE team i, deal with which it's their. Own
43:58
Speaker 5: problems we can talk about the. Nick separately but If,
44:00
Speaker 5: the lakers If the lakers got annoyed, in me and, they,
44:03
Speaker 5: Did like i'm not dependent on them for a credential
44:06
Speaker 5: to do, my JOB and i thought that was A
44:08
Speaker 5: value i could bring to the to the books specifically
44:10
Speaker 5: because exactly what, you're, saying, yeah no one.
44:12
Speaker 1: Hundred percent and in some ways it's always been the
44:14
Speaker 1: case at any news organization that if you're going to
44:16
Speaker 1: do an, investigative piece don't don't actually Let the beat
44:20
Speaker 1: Have the beat reporters, do it because you're gonna cut
44:23
Speaker 1: off your nose despite your, face exactly go get and
44:25
Speaker 1: go get somebody who who is it there all, the
44:28
Speaker 1: time right who can go in and sort of in
44:31
Speaker 1: some ways it's a fresher set. Of eyes like if
44:33
Speaker 1: you're with a team data day, to day weird stuff
44:37
Speaker 1: comes across as normal to you because you don't know
44:40
Speaker 1: the alternative versus you're coming from a farther away so
44:44
Speaker 1: you can see. The weird you have a better shot
44:47
Speaker 1: identifying the weird than the average beat writer Of, the lakers.
44:51
Speaker 5: For sure AND like, i say, you know part of
44:54
Speaker 5: It is i've taken a few shots in this, media
44:55
Speaker 5: tour Maybe at lakers beat, Writers necessarily but part of
44:58
Speaker 5: it is also that it's.
44:59
Speaker 2: Different job so if you.
45:00
Speaker 5: Are a laker, beat writers what you were saying About The, washington,
45:03
Speaker 5: post Right if lebron's not talking, to you you're failing.
45:07
Speaker 5: Your job like you are that your job is to
45:09
Speaker 5: tell get. That access that's part of, the job and
45:11
Speaker 5: you act part of the, dirty war but but that's
45:13
Speaker 5: literally your job is To get lebron and tell fans what.
45:16
Speaker 4: That.
45:16
Speaker 5: Is Right SO I'M i i make fun of, it
45:19
Speaker 5: Sometimes but I'm also SYMBER that i can understand, it
45:21
Speaker 5: too and that's and that's and, it's, OKAY.
45:24
Speaker 1: Right i think that that's. The THING like i look
45:25
Speaker 1: at it, as, saying hey all, there's all there's a
45:28
Speaker 1: lot of different flavors of journalism that. We need you need,
45:31
Speaker 1: your accountability you need, your access you need, your service
45:34
Speaker 1: like we could sit here and go. Through it so
45:37
Speaker 1: you you went about this How many i'm guessing this
45:43
Speaker 1: is not the first iteration Of a lebron book.
45:45
Speaker 5: You, PITCHED no i had a uh the FIRST all
45:49
Speaker 5: i wanted to do we Start Is Lebron, big Three The,
45:52
Speaker 5: miami Heat the Big Three heat and actually the reason,
45:54
Speaker 5: my grandfather my. Grandfather moved he was not a, basketball
45:57
Speaker 5: fan but he moved to of Course when new yor
45:59
Speaker 5: jew so what do? You do when, he retired he
46:00
Speaker 5: moved down to a century Village, in, florida right and
46:03
Speaker 5: became a.
46:04
Speaker 1: All had a grandparent in century village At In, south
46:07
Speaker 1: florida my great grandmother and GRANDFATHER where i think they
46:10
Speaker 1: were the founding residents there in the.
46:12
Speaker 2: LATE seventies i love it right in the Clubhouse At
46:14
Speaker 2: alray beach was our our was our. Century village so
46:19
Speaker 2: my Mine.
46:19
Speaker 5: Was deerfield so he became a later in, HIS life
46:22
Speaker 5: i think through me because he SAW much i. Love
46:23
Speaker 5: sports he became A huge, heat fan huge where he
46:25
Speaker 5: would he would watch he would, call me he would watch,
46:28
Speaker 5: first take he would want he would get angry at
46:31
Speaker 5: all the media guys who picked Against. The heat this
46:32
Speaker 5: was when there was the big batan of. The backlash
46:34
Speaker 5: he would he. WAS he i always compare him a
46:36
Speaker 5: little bit To a jewish Version. Of miami people Might
46:38
Speaker 5: Remember dan lebtard and he had his FATHER. On tv,
46:41
Speaker 5: oh yeah, rappy, Hoppy right so It's a jewish version.
46:44
Speaker 5: Of that so That that heat team had like a
46:46
Speaker 5: special place in my HEART because i was talking about them.
46:48
Speaker 5: A lot i had tried doing a book on the.
46:52
Speaker 5: My order so The first LEBRON idea i HAD and i, always,
46:55
Speaker 5: SAY no i, like Books and i'm the general Of
46:56
Speaker 5: the big but it's also a. Commercial, endeavor uh so
46:59
Speaker 5: you never HAVE thing i, Could Sell so lebron is
47:01
Speaker 5: obviously that doesn't mean you have to be interested in the,
47:04
Speaker 5: topic too but it has to be the commercial aspect.
47:06
Speaker 5: To it AND so i Pitched the UH what i
47:10
Speaker 5: wanted to do WAS that i had to propose on
47:11
Speaker 5: Everything The Big three heat and just. Didn't work someone
47:15
Speaker 5: else was going to do IT and i heard. About
47:17
Speaker 5: it they ended up NOT doing i don't actually genuinely
47:19
Speaker 5: don't know what, happened THERE but i HAD to i had,
47:21
Speaker 5: to pivot and we ended Up.
47:22
Speaker 2: With lakers, you know, it's.
47:24
Speaker 1: Tough you know with sports books is, YOU know i
47:28
Speaker 1: sit there and like my favorite sports books are a
47:32
Speaker 1: variety of. Different, types, Like uh october sixty four is
47:36
Speaker 1: just an all timer for me because it's a book
47:38
Speaker 1: that's not really, about, baseball right it's about the civil
47:41
Speaker 1: rights movement and sort of the beginning and the end,
47:43
Speaker 1: of it and then sort of the role. Sports played
47:45
Speaker 1: and it's Just Obviously halbert stam is sort Of the
47:48
Speaker 1: he's The north star, Sports, right like, you know nobody
47:51
Speaker 1: does it, Like Him so i'm not going to say.
47:52
Speaker 1: There's that BUT then i love some. Moral histories there's
47:55
Speaker 1: a great one ABOUT the Aba Called Loose. Balls, falls
47:58
Speaker 1: yep oh, my god it's it is ONE That i
48:03
Speaker 1: my fandom for that book. ONLY grows, i mean it
48:06
Speaker 1: was just like A terrific it's a reminder that there
48:08
Speaker 1: are certain recent histories are sometimes better told via oral
48:13
Speaker 1: history than trying having one writer's voice to try to capture.
48:17
Speaker 1: The moment but the larger difficulty in sports books is
48:21
Speaker 1: getting out of, a region right or getting out of a,
48:25
Speaker 1: metro area which IS why, I mean i've pitched some
48:29
Speaker 1: sports and politics books and have struggled to get publishers
48:33
Speaker 1: to buy it because of. This issue lebron obviously is
48:37
Speaker 1: somebody that's bigger for the REASON that i stated in.
48:39
Speaker 1: Our introduction lebron is a, cultural icon not just a.
48:43
Speaker 1: Basketball icon and then you merge it With, the lakers
48:46
Speaker 1: also a, cultural icon AND suddenly i now see where
48:50
Speaker 1: you have a.
48:51
Speaker 5: Commercial, VEHICLE yeah I, Mean lebron, like listen you could
48:55
Speaker 5: be it's not even any, sports fan but even other not,
48:58
Speaker 5: sports fans if You say, lebron opinions it's interesting because.
49:01
Speaker 5: They don't they don't necessarily, like him and that's an
49:03
Speaker 5: interesting THING that i find, About him like the obviously
49:07
Speaker 5: compare Him to jordan always and it seems to elicit
49:09
Speaker 5: a different.
49:09
Speaker 1: Emotional response it's the strangest Are ARE and i guess
49:13
Speaker 1: THAT'S where i want. To, start Yeah Because I'VE i've
49:16
Speaker 1: i Will confess i've started. The book i've not finished,
49:18
Speaker 1: the book.
49:19
Speaker 2: But well it is, that's okay.
49:21
Speaker 1: It Is a this feels Like a, lebron book Not a. Lakers.
49:24
Speaker 2: BOOK yeah i think that's, probably true or THE way
49:29
Speaker 2: i The way i've sort of thought it through is
49:31
Speaker 2: it's like on the SO what i like. To do
49:34
Speaker 2: one of THE things i like to write.
49:34
Speaker 5: About in THE way i sort of approach, MY job
49:36
Speaker 5: i think is in THE way i summarize IT is
49:38
Speaker 5: i like WRITING about i describe it the things that
49:40
Speaker 5: happen behind the scenes that we don't see that impact
49:43
Speaker 5: what happens on the court that we. Do, See right
49:45
Speaker 5: and so, for me this is sort of a look
49:48
Speaker 5: At the i'll call it the merger really because it's
49:50
Speaker 5: more than a merger between these two iconic sporting Institutions
49:54
Speaker 5: of lebron And the lakers and what that looks. Like
49:58
Speaker 5: Together but lebron is sort of the, you know everything
50:01
Speaker 5: goes to him and him and his agency and what.
50:05
Speaker 5: That means AND later i do a lot of his,
50:07
Speaker 5: political stuff which Around the bubble, twenty twenty around the
50:10
Speaker 5: bubble and a lot of stuff he, did there and
50:11
Speaker 5: then sort of his retreat from political life in, recent
50:14
Speaker 5: years which we've SEEN and i have found. Really interesting,
50:17
Speaker 5: SO yeah i MEAN that's i would agree with you.
50:18
Speaker 1: On that, you know it's interesting this MERGER that i
50:22
Speaker 1: like that you described it as a Merger between lebron And,
50:24
Speaker 1: the lakers BECAUSE when i think about all the other
50:27
Speaker 1: superstars That the lakers, have, Acquired right kareem was, An
50:31
Speaker 1: acquisition shaq was. An acquisition you Could argue kobe was
50:36
Speaker 1: an acquisition because it was a Trade On, Draft NIGHT
50:40
Speaker 1: but i. DON'T know I put kobe. In magic we're
50:42
Speaker 1: Sort of lakers, for Life, Versus, kareem Lebron, and shaq
50:47
Speaker 1: who were sort of the, hired guns, Right yea but
50:50
Speaker 1: in the Case of Kareem, and Shack the lakers made them.
50:55
Speaker 1: Bigger deals lebron arguably was a bigger a bigger brand
51:02
Speaker 1: before going To, the lakers and in some ways he's
51:05
Speaker 1: still a bigger brand Than the. Laker brand Is, that.
51:08
Speaker 2: Yeah it's so it's. SO interesting i. Completely agree and
51:14
Speaker 2: one of THE things i looked at, is like Why
51:17
Speaker 2: did lebron go To? The, Lakers right and to this
51:19
Speaker 2: day you don't get a, clear answer and.
51:22
Speaker 1: It seems like an. Obvious answer i'll just we're going
51:25
Speaker 1: to give to. Move hit the Business of lebron needed
51:29
Speaker 1: to Be. In la so All of lebron's post basketball
51:33
Speaker 1: life was going to be based out of Out Of,
51:36
Speaker 1: southern california even if it was going to Be, in
51:38
Speaker 1: vegas he was probably going to live In. Southern california
51:41
Speaker 1: so it seemed to me it was just him preparing
51:44
Speaker 1: for the, next chapter And the lakers were just the
51:47
Speaker 1: most viable way. Exit strategy so.
51:51
Speaker 5: The, second part THERE'S why i think is interesting BECAUSE
51:52
Speaker 5: that's i was gonna, Say that like it's, Almost, LIKE
51:54
Speaker 5: okay i want to, do This and i'm, so, big
51:57
Speaker 5: right the Brand of lebron is so big that what
52:00
Speaker 5: can what THERE'S no i can't go play for ninety
52:04
Speaker 5: nine percent of. The teams It's basically Lakers or knicks
52:06
Speaker 5: were basically it like those are the two that. Would
52:08
Speaker 5: work and he wanted to go out west because It
52:09
Speaker 5: just knicks one because he's never Been A new, york
52:11
Speaker 5: guy no, or no. WHATEVER reason i HAVE a i
52:14
Speaker 5: Have a i'll ask you about. IT later i have
52:17
Speaker 5: one theory as to why he Picked the heat Over
52:18
Speaker 5: the knicks back in. The, DECISION okay i want to
52:21
Speaker 5: get to that, with you but go. Keep, Going yeah
52:23
Speaker 5: so it's and IT'S so i agree with you on
52:25
Speaker 5: the post. Basketball stuff what's, interesting though it's been sort
52:27
Speaker 5: of a mix of what that looks like and maybe
52:29
Speaker 5: that's part.
52:29
Speaker 2: Of it so at first we thought.
52:31
Speaker 5: It was gonna, be movies and He Did, space jam
52:32
Speaker 5: but then that sort of disappeared a, little bit and
52:35
Speaker 5: they have his his his longtime business Manager Friend maverick
52:40
Speaker 5: carter sort of had This Spring, hill entertainment which maybe
52:42
Speaker 5: people have, heard of and the reporting on that.
52:44
Speaker 2: Is that's BASICALLY it's i don't want to say, a
52:46
Speaker 2: failure but. It's not it's not doing.
52:47
Speaker 5: Great financially so you, had that, you know he there's about,
52:51
Speaker 5: his wife like, the weather and he wanted his kids
52:54
Speaker 5: to be out there and just he was Done. With
52:56
Speaker 5: cleveland and again we're talking about that post, business stuff
52:59
Speaker 5: the post playing career in. His businesses ownership is definitely
53:02
Speaker 5: something he's. INTERESTED in i cover that.
53:03
Speaker 1: A lot and he Feels Like, LAS vega, i mean
53:05
Speaker 1: it feels like it's an inevitable ownership group that that
53:10
Speaker 1: he gets, to lead right.
53:12
Speaker 2: For sure and.
53:12
Speaker 5: He's uh one of the things that cover like he's
53:14
Speaker 5: made Trips To, saudi arabia which most PEOPLE think. I
53:18
Speaker 5: can't i, don't know he, hasn't said but most people
53:20
Speaker 5: in these circles believe those are. Not, Coincidental right he's
53:23
Speaker 5: invested in like a sell boating thing. OUT there i,
53:24
Speaker 5: don't know but. He did some minister, of culture one of,
53:27
Speaker 5: the princes which Whose name i'm not gonna even pretend,
53:30
Speaker 5: to remember but one of the princes Hosted an instagram
53:33
Speaker 5: Picture of Lebron There. Maverick carter so most people kind
53:36
Speaker 5: of joined the connection that like money and face of, the,
53:38
Speaker 5: ownership right that's kind of where we're gonna end up
53:40
Speaker 5: with the uh with. That stuff but he is, so
53:44
Speaker 5: big that's. The point Like, the lakers it almost feels
53:46
Speaker 5: like the only team that could absorb him in that
53:48
Speaker 5: and not be swallowed.
53:49
Speaker 1: By him there's a reason results matter more, than promises
53:55
Speaker 1: just like there's A reason Morgan and Morgan is america's
53:58
Speaker 1: largest injury. Law firm for the last thirty, five years
54:01
Speaker 1: they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half a.
54:04
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54:08
Speaker 1: to nothing just hoping to get away with paying as little.
54:11
Speaker 1: As possible Morgan and morgan fought back ended up. Winning millions,
54:15
Speaker 1: in Fact, in pennsylvania one client was awarded twenty six,
54:18
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54:22
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54:25
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54:28
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54:30
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54:33
Speaker 1: you're injured you need, A lawyer you need somebody to get.
54:36
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Speaker 1: podcast or dial Pound law pound five two nine law
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54:47
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54:51
Speaker 2: They.
54:51
Speaker 1: Win WELL but i COULD argue i say this as somebody,
54:59
Speaker 1: who like, You know i'm Even though i'm in my,
55:03
Speaker 1: MID fifties i was probably the first GENERATION of nba
55:06
Speaker 1: fans that were fans of, a player not. A. TEAM
55:09
Speaker 1: yeah i grew Up in miami in the seventies. And
55:11
Speaker 1: eighties we didn't get the HEAT until i was literally graduating.
55:15
Speaker 1: High school that's when we got. The heat, You Know,
55:18
Speaker 1: ronnie ceychelee he was the big first star that. We
55:22
Speaker 1: had AND so i was a, magic guy. You KNOW
55:27
Speaker 1: and i had a friend who was a, bird, Guy
55:29
Speaker 1: RIGHT and i had another friend who became who Was the, jordan,
55:32
Speaker 1: Guy right and you know that's how we rooted for
55:34
Speaker 1: basketball in the seventies, and eighties and it's in some
55:37
Speaker 1: ways it's still what basketball.
55:39
Speaker 4: Is.
55:39
Speaker 1: Today right it's more player driven than. Team driven And
55:42
Speaker 1: the lakers were one Of the lakers In the, celtics
55:44
Speaker 1: royas the two franchises that most of the time were
55:47
Speaker 1: bigger than, their, players right or at least were the
55:50
Speaker 1: same size as their Players See. Magic Johnson the lakers
55:55
Speaker 1: have been Good, for lebron But has lebron been good For?
55:57
Speaker 2: The lakers so it's it's so. Interesting thing so the
56:01
Speaker 2: short answer. Is yes so this is one of.
56:02
Speaker 5: The things so the short, answers yes because you have
56:04
Speaker 5: to remember the dark period they were in before they, got,
56:06
Speaker 5: In right so this is. People remember so anyone who's
56:09
Speaker 5: WATCHED the Hbo Show, winning time which is based on
56:12
Speaker 5: Another great lakers.
56:13
Speaker 1: Book Show, called SHOWTIME And Hbo couldn't COULDN'T a tv
56:19
Speaker 1: show Called, shot correct which is.
56:20
Speaker 5: Hilarious exactly so the Book was Showtime By, jeff prowlman
56:23
Speaker 5: who's like the best sports author going.
56:25
Speaker 1: Right, now hey football For. A buck i had him
56:29
Speaker 1: on this Podcast. Talking, Trump yeah.
56:33
Speaker 5: I'm sure so he's like the best. Of this so
56:35
Speaker 5: that book just gets on The Magic. Kareen lakers this
56:38
Speaker 5: show gets made to bring. It up So That's, jerry,
56:39
Speaker 5: buss Right and jerry buss is, People know i'm his iconic,
56:43
Speaker 5: uh owner just larger than. Life figure all that Builds
56:47
Speaker 5: the lakers into the thing that we all know. They are, he,
56:49
Speaker 5: dies leaves leaves, the children Leaves the lakers to a
56:54
Speaker 5: trust of. Six children AND when i, you know the
56:56
Speaker 5: term it's like succession but is, a cliche but it really,
57:00
Speaker 5: is that like this is really, sports succession Where like
57:02
Speaker 5: jerry BUSS is I Guess brian, cox's character except he
57:05
Speaker 5: goes To the playboy mansion a little.
57:06
Speaker 1: More and he had a little. LESS money, i mean
57:09
Speaker 1: the dirty little secret About the lakers And the bus
57:11
Speaker 1: family is, how basically and That's What winning time did
57:16
Speaker 1: a good job. Of explaining bus was sort of Like
57:19
Speaker 1: The donald trump of. His era he had he always
57:21
Speaker 1: used other, people's money correct to pretend he, was wealthy
57:25
Speaker 1: like he didn't really.
57:26
Speaker 2: Have.
57:26
Speaker 5: Well correct and so he leaves the team and he's
57:29
Speaker 5: got his children fighting over it and they're not it's
57:32
Speaker 5: not a.
57:32
Speaker 2: Good situation he basically leaves it where he.
57:34
Speaker 5: Leaves a trust in a Way where jeannie the daughter
57:37
Speaker 5: is in charge of the, business side jim the son
57:39
Speaker 5: is in charge, of Basketball but geenie's actually in charge of.
57:41
Speaker 2: It all it's saying to, you mean.
57:43
Speaker 1: The former, Presidential Candidate. Jimmy, buss that's.
57:47
Speaker 2: By, the way.
57:47
Speaker 5: The succession that was when really it went to succession
57:50
Speaker 5: because he is was a connor.
57:52
Speaker 1: WHATEVER heal, I mean, I mean i'll never forget getting
57:55
Speaker 1: that press Release like may of.
57:57
Speaker 2: Last year, you know, you're, like wait what he's filed?
58:02
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly, oh, Wait though I'm gonna i'm. Gonna confirm
58:05
Speaker 5: sorry It Was, Johnny Buss, Johnny Bus. Johny, buss sorry
58:07
Speaker 5: john this is, the, Third, right Jimmy, there's genie And.
58:11
Speaker 5: There's Johnny, There's, Jimmy, Jeannie, Johnny Janney. Joey JESSE now
58:16
Speaker 5: i remember if you can get all, those kidding it's.
58:18
Speaker 2: All. Jays yeah among the ones, we know all the
58:21
Speaker 2: same mom, or, no, no no that's, the okay the
58:24
Speaker 2: original four or the four older ones with, one mom
58:28
Speaker 2: two younger ones with a. Second mom one came out
58:31
Speaker 2: later with the. THIRD mom i don't know what else.
58:34
Speaker 1: Is that so there's the THERE'S another tv show that's
58:37
Speaker 1: out there that's also about the kind Of About, Genie, buss.
58:40
Speaker 2: Yes, running back that, is yeah nobody is watching. That,
58:42
Speaker 2: show yeah and.
58:44
Speaker 1: That they did do the storyline, of hey look one
58:48
Speaker 1: of the concessions, guys said out, of wedlock brother Of.
58:52
Speaker 1: YOURS genie i have to.
58:54
Speaker 5: Tell you nobody has watched that show with a more
58:56
Speaker 5: critical eye than me because some, of it so much
58:58
Speaker 5: of it is True.
58:59
Speaker 2: That i'm watching it and, being like oh, my god
59:00
Speaker 2: who came up with? This? Idea WAIT do i have
59:02
Speaker 2: to look? Into this it's just, something real.
59:04
Speaker 5: Because there's enough that is true There that i'm, Thinking,
59:06
Speaker 5: like okay maybe she's the.
59:08
Speaker 2: EXECUT producer I.
59:09
Speaker 1: THOUGHT leani i was just, Gonna Say jenny buss IS
59:11
Speaker 1: an ep, on, It, right.
59:12
Speaker 2: Yeah she's an.
59:13
Speaker 5: Execut producer so THAT'S what i was, LITERALLY like i
59:15
Speaker 5: was taking notes on. That show i'm Not even i'm
59:17
Speaker 5: not even like nobody else watched a show like.
59:20
Speaker 2: It's passive it. Was decent it's a passive, entertainment show.
59:23
Speaker 1: Right right the Woman From Almost, Famous, hudson yeah, Thank.
59:27
Speaker 5: You but i'm watching it like, you know people watch
59:30
Speaker 5: Like the wire and like. College courses, You know i'm
59:32
Speaker 5: just taking notes.
59:32
Speaker 1: On it you can.
59:34
Speaker 2: Find exactly so they said those kids and it's.
59:38
Speaker 5: A disaster i'll go the full, quick version like It's
59:41
Speaker 5: a genie has to fire. Her brother her brothers then
59:43
Speaker 5: try to take the team from her in a. Boardroom
59:45
Speaker 5: coup that. Doesn't work she keeps, the team and this
59:47
Speaker 5: is and then They give kobe this ridiculous contract sort
59:50
Speaker 5: of a golden parachute of a contract end his career
59:52
Speaker 5: and sort of bring back to, your question like what
59:54
Speaker 5: mattered more They needed lebron was this lifeline sort of
59:57
Speaker 5: this we are in this dark Period and lebron comes and, it's,
1:00:00
Speaker 5: like No the lakers, Are Back eye genie boss like,
1:00:02
Speaker 5: MY father i can get.
1:00:03
Speaker 2: Stars too we.
1:00:05
Speaker 5: Are back so that's where he had an immense impact
1:00:08
Speaker 5: on them and.
1:00:09
Speaker 2: Her, specifically well.
1:00:11
Speaker 1: That's interesting that you, say that because when you really look,
1:00:14
Speaker 1: at it if you take away the, bubble, title Ye
1:00:17
Speaker 1: the lakers THEY'VE been i guess was it two years
1:00:22
Speaker 1: ago they were a three seed or a two seed
1:00:24
Speaker 1: or was it last year that three seed?
1:00:25
Speaker 5: They made last year of the three seed they Made the,
1:00:27
Speaker 5: conference finals kind of like you know back in they
1:00:30
Speaker 5: backed in a couple of, years, ago.
1:00:31
Speaker 1: Right but they've really not been. A factor they just
1:00:36
Speaker 1: you can feel that they're not. A factor they just
1:00:39
Speaker 1: don't have. Enough depth and it, goes, to frankly just
1:00:41
Speaker 1: a total mismanagement of their, front, office right mortgaging so
1:00:45
Speaker 1: many of their draft picks where. THEY were i mean
1:00:49
Speaker 1: they had some. Draft picks they just sort of pet, them,
1:00:52
Speaker 1: away right, you, know yeah, you look, you know Whether
1:00:54
Speaker 1: It's lonzo ball.
1:00:55
Speaker 2: Or, whatever correct the kind Of as i've.
1:00:58
Speaker 5: Been doing this is THE way i describe it is
1:01:00
Speaker 5: like you can't say they want, a title so you
1:01:02
Speaker 5: can't say it was. A failure so THE way i
1:01:04
Speaker 5: say it is it Was the lebron ten YEAR in
1:01:06
Speaker 5: la was. A. Success butt and the butt IS if
1:01:09
Speaker 5: i told you when he got there in twenty eighteen
1:01:11
Speaker 5: that you would get. Eight YEARS and i think, this
1:01:13
Speaker 5: IS like, i joke it's going to be a trivia
1:01:14
Speaker 5: question people get wrong in. Twenty years This is lebron's
1:01:17
Speaker 5: longest consecutive stretch with. One team It's, the laker This current, lakers,
1:01:20
Speaker 5: stretch right that's the team he spent the most consecutive years.
1:01:23
Speaker 2: With right so you told you you're gonna, get yeah?
1:01:26
Speaker 1: Go, ahead, No. No no that's interesting because it then brings
1:01:29
Speaker 1: up the question of what logo does he go In
1:01:31
Speaker 1: the Hall? Of?
1:01:32
Speaker 2: Fame right it's fascinating and the idea Of being so
1:01:34
Speaker 2: he's there eight years and he's been mostly healthy, until
1:01:36
Speaker 2: that basically, mostly healthy and not just one title it
1:01:39
Speaker 2: was in, a bubble but one, finals run like just one.
1:01:42
Speaker 5: Finals appearance and the fact that makes it even more
1:01:46
Speaker 5: interesting is the fact that the title and the main
1:01:49
Speaker 5: high point happened in a literal bubble with, no parade
1:01:52
Speaker 5: and they then have this sort of robbed fans of
1:01:55
Speaker 5: his ability to emotionally connect to, these moments these things
1:01:58
Speaker 5: that fandom is. Built ON and i just think it's
1:02:00
Speaker 5: going to make his legacy in la really interesting and
1:02:03
Speaker 5: honestly diminish it when we look back on it in
1:02:05
Speaker 5: twenty years and going to, be, like wait what?
1:02:07
Speaker 2: Happened then what?
1:02:08
Speaker 1: Was this it's. A, strange no it's always going to
1:02:11
Speaker 1: be The, third yeah it's never going to be the
1:02:15
Speaker 1: first or second Part of. Lebron's career it's always going
1:02:18
Speaker 1: to feel like. The coda it's always going to be. The,
1:02:22
Speaker 1: CODA no, I agree, i agree but.
1:02:24
Speaker 2: Just strange it's strength to.
1:02:26
Speaker 5: That point it's strange that like that is the LONG like,
1:02:29
Speaker 5: i said that, longest, stretch right that that is not
1:02:31
Speaker 5: a three year period but an eight year or. Maybe
1:02:34
Speaker 5: nine we'll see what. Happens stretch that's the part that makes.
1:02:37
Speaker 1: It strange let me, ask this why do You think
1:02:41
Speaker 1: lebron wasn't a? Ring chaser, you know there's always been,
1:02:43
Speaker 1: this thought is he a ring chaser? Or not he's
1:02:45
Speaker 1: clearly not because if he wanted a, ring chase YOU
1:02:49
Speaker 1: and i you, Tell ME but i think if he
1:02:52
Speaker 1: wanted a, ring Chase the warriors would have found a
1:02:54
Speaker 1: way to make room. For him, they called out of
1:02:57
Speaker 1: my mind that they, caught, it.
1:02:59
Speaker 5: Right asked and, he said and it's. Really interesting it
1:03:02
Speaker 5: shows you where his relationship was With the lakers in twenty.
1:03:04
Speaker 5: Twenty four he was in one of his passive aggressive
1:03:06
Speaker 5: tweet streaks or whatever when.
1:03:07
Speaker 2: He does and so.
1:03:08
Speaker 5: They called, they, figured okay We'll Call, genie buss and,
1:03:10
Speaker 5: they Called And genie buss in a really, interesting answer
1:03:13
Speaker 5: and she gets censorive, about this but she didn't. Say no,
1:03:16
Speaker 5: she Said Call Rich paul lebron's agent call m and,
1:03:18
Speaker 5: find out which is not a no right for like,
1:03:20
Speaker 5: for her that's a, Big, OKAY like i don't know
1:03:23
Speaker 5: if call him and he, Said no so he Made,
1:03:25
Speaker 5: the yeah he's made.
1:03:26
Speaker 2: A choice he's made a choice to sort of keep
1:03:29
Speaker 2: his ROOTS.
1:03:30
Speaker 5: In la maybe goes back to what we were talking,
1:03:31
Speaker 5: about before for, whatever reason whether it's a, family thing
1:03:33
Speaker 5: whether just deciding he doesn't want to play for a,
1:03:36
Speaker 5: random team.
1:03:37
Speaker 2: YOU know i, just yeah he hasn't. Done it he hasn't.
1:03:40
Speaker 5: DONE it i don't know if he's still sensitive about,
1:03:42
Speaker 5: you Know The Miami super team winking up and he
1:03:45
Speaker 5: doesn't want that associated more, than LIKE look i.
1:03:47
Speaker 2: DO that i, don't KNOW but i agree.
1:03:48
Speaker 1: With, you well let me go Back to miami because
1:03:51
Speaker 1: this one is a little more personal. To me you
1:03:54
Speaker 1: Have The bill simmons version. Of, events, okay right, AND
1:03:57
Speaker 1: look i don't know if you listened, to, him, yes yeah,
1:04:01
Speaker 1: of course so, YOU well i mean then you know
1:04:03
Speaker 1: where that he believes it was a peeing contest Between
1:04:08
Speaker 1: pat Riley And. Lebron james and there was No Way
1:04:10
Speaker 1: lebron james was never he was never going to stay
1:04:14
Speaker 1: somewhere where he wasn't, the alpha And pat riley was
1:04:18
Speaker 1: never going to keep somebody and play second fiddle. To
1:04:23
Speaker 1: them is that the reason why that that. RELATIONSHIP ended i.
1:04:27
Speaker 5: Think, PARTLY yeah i would say THE part I would
1:04:32
Speaker 5: riley did try like the and this Is but riley
1:04:35
Speaker 5: did try to keep. Him right and part of it
1:04:37
Speaker 5: is that he was offended The way lebron treated him
1:04:39
Speaker 5: in this. Pitch meeting like there's a STORY about i
1:04:42
Speaker 5: Forget maybe riley went Up to vegas to pitch Them
1:04:45
Speaker 5: and lebron some of the guys like a soccer game on,
1:04:46
Speaker 5: the Background and riley, just felt, you know offended because
1:04:49
Speaker 5: this is and, he's right He's pat riley thought he
1:04:51
Speaker 5: deserved a little.
1:04:52
Speaker 2: More respect the.
1:04:54
Speaker 5: Answer to that is probably what you're saying is probably
1:04:56
Speaker 5: like that was the build up to that where sort
1:04:58
Speaker 5: of this contest about who actually gets to, run things who's,
1:05:00
Speaker 5: in charge who gets to do it.
1:05:02
Speaker 2: WHOSE way.
1:05:04
Speaker 5: I always compare the heat To like lebron's graduate school
1:05:07
Speaker 5: almost right Where, Yeah cleveland.
1:05:09
Speaker 1: I'd heard him call it, college, Before, right okay, so
1:05:12
Speaker 1: yeah it's, just, like, yeah yeah he learned how to
1:05:15
Speaker 1: win and how to he, needed it and then he.
1:05:17
Speaker 5: Sort of took the things he got there and took
1:05:19
Speaker 5: them out into the world with Him. Into, CLEVELAND then
1:05:23
Speaker 5: i mean the reason he left and this is the
1:05:25
Speaker 5: but the reason he left he wanted to Fix the, cleveland,
1:05:27
Speaker 5: Narrative right they wanted to fix the. Decision narrative they
1:05:29
Speaker 5: want to go back win a Title. In cleveland like
1:05:31
Speaker 5: THAT was, i mean the fact that they went to
1:05:33
Speaker 5: tell you?
1:05:34
Speaker 1: About him what does that tell You? About lebron what
1:05:37
Speaker 1: do you what do you? Take away not everybody would
1:05:40
Speaker 1: feel that because he's never really going to live, there,
1:05:44
Speaker 1: again right his kids may never. Live there, YOU know
1:05:49
Speaker 1: i have an Attachment to miami that my son has no,
1:05:51
Speaker 1: attachment to right because HE'S never i don't think his
1:05:54
Speaker 1: kids really have an Attachment to Accron. In cleveland but
1:05:57
Speaker 1: it meant something to him to do that. For sure
1:06:01
Speaker 1: what does that tell you about him that maybe we
1:06:03
Speaker 1: we we we overlook sometimes in our in our sort
1:06:06
Speaker 1: of cheap descriptions of.
1:06:08
Speaker 5: THESE ubers, I mean i, mean one it's you care,
1:06:11
Speaker 5: people THINK which i actually think is not a, you
1:06:13
Speaker 5: know guess someone as. A NEGATIVE like I always i,
1:06:15
Speaker 5: always laugh, you know in, MY job i always laugh when,
1:06:17
Speaker 5: people say like when, the athletes sad will. Pay attention you,
1:06:20
Speaker 5: all do and, it's fine like we. All do it's
1:06:21
Speaker 5: the most, human thing like what are? You kidding and so,
1:06:23
Speaker 5: it's caring. Right care people think that's a. BIG thing i, think,
1:06:26
Speaker 5: that like is it more about legacy and caring what
1:06:30
Speaker 5: people think as opposed to the. HOMETOWN thing i actually
1:06:32
Speaker 5: think a bit. Of it but it's, also INTERTWINED and
1:06:34
Speaker 5: i think at that point it's probably hard for to separate.
1:06:35
Speaker 1: Those two and obviously bringing, THE title i mean that Was.
1:06:39
Speaker 1: Looked cleveland, you know they haven't WON an nfl championship since.
1:06:44
Speaker 1: The fifties they haven't won a baseball championship since. The
1:06:46
Speaker 1: forties it was a B f d.
1:06:50
Speaker 5: One hundred like the way THE way i kind of
1:06:52
Speaker 5: say he went back to a team it mattered so much,
1:06:54
Speaker 5: to him and because he recognized how much it Mattered,
1:06:56
Speaker 5: to cleveland he went back and was willing to take
1:06:59
Speaker 5: checks and Play For. DAN gilbert, I Remember dan gilbert's
1:07:01
Speaker 5: the owner of people don't know he's the owner Of.
1:07:02
Speaker 5: The Cavaliers after lebron Goes, to miami, he Writes and
1:07:06
Speaker 5: i'm not even gonna use the coded like it might,
1:07:08
Speaker 5: be no it was a. Racist letter it was a
1:07:10
Speaker 5: racist letter saying Basic How dale? Lebron leave it.
1:07:13
Speaker 2: Was terrible it was, terror right just like.
1:07:15
Speaker 5: IT was i forget who used but plantation like letter
1:07:18
Speaker 5: was a phrase thrown around a lot by people who
1:07:21
Speaker 5: by like, you know historians and people who all throw
1:07:24
Speaker 5: that language. Around Lightly and lebron was willing and he's
1:07:28
Speaker 5: still in. The caves lebron went back and it's not
1:07:30
Speaker 5: like it's not Like he it wasn't THAT because i
1:07:32
Speaker 5: always forgiven it because that was so important, to him
1:07:35
Speaker 5: and it was so and he thought it mad it
1:07:36
Speaker 5: would matter so much to, the city whether that's for
1:07:38
Speaker 5: an ego for the city probably mix, them, both right
1:07:41
Speaker 5: that he was willing to go back, and say you,
1:07:42
Speaker 5: Know what i'm going to eat.
1:07:43
Speaker 2: IT this i want to.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: Do this of the, three franchises which one would build
1:07:48
Speaker 1: a statue?
1:07:49
Speaker 5: To, him WELL so, i Joke, THE lakers i think
1:07:51
Speaker 5: are going they just, do, that right even though it's
1:07:53
Speaker 5: Weird and la has.
1:07:55
Speaker 1: Weird If the lakers do, it personally because it's not
1:07:57
Speaker 1: he's the only, one, one sorry but.
1:07:59
Speaker 2: What it be weird if they.
1:08:00
Speaker 5: Did it that's the thing think about, like that like
1:08:02
Speaker 5: would it be weird if they didn't. Do it because
1:08:04
Speaker 5: You have, lebron again a, top five if not better player,
1:08:07
Speaker 5: all time eight years on. Your team it's almost like,
1:08:10
Speaker 5: A statement i agree, with you but it's almost like
1:08:12
Speaker 5: a statement if you don't.
1:08:13
Speaker 1: Do it, all Right The washington wizards don't have a
1:08:16
Speaker 1: Statue Of, michael jordan.
1:08:17
Speaker 2: But that was, two years right that we didn't. Own
1:08:19
Speaker 2: it so, it's different but about. Two years it's not
1:08:20
Speaker 2: the eight like that's.
1:08:21
Speaker 5: THE thing, i MEAN the la, relationship Again the LA's
1:08:26
Speaker 5: Relationship to lebron is. So interesting it is the one
1:08:28
Speaker 5: place he went there and he was, not welcomed like
1:08:31
Speaker 5: it was. Not cheering there was there were murals of
1:08:33
Speaker 5: him that were to face with Pictures. OF kobe a
1:08:35
Speaker 5: lot of this goes back To The kobe lebron rivalry
1:08:38
Speaker 5: a little that was a little, between them but on
1:08:40
Speaker 5: a more, macro sentence it was between sort of their
1:08:43
Speaker 5: respective fandoms and sort of GOING into i.
1:08:45
Speaker 1: Never thought of it as much about Because, basically kobe,
1:08:47
Speaker 1: you know his last championship is right but the year before,
1:08:52
Speaker 1: the decision, right.
1:08:53
Speaker 5: Yeah and they and they never went up, each other
1:08:55
Speaker 5: they never faced each other in, the finals which is.
1:08:56
Speaker 5: Too bad but they were pitted against each other And
1:09:00
Speaker 5: by nike and by marketing machines, and media and it
1:09:03
Speaker 5: became a Thing where, kobe's fans Which are, lakers fans
1:09:07
Speaker 5: WHO are i Mean The lakers kobe fans.
1:09:10
Speaker 1: Fans are Not. All lakers The thing i've LEARNED about
1:09:12
Speaker 1: LA and i have a my best friend lives out
1:09:14
Speaker 1: there and he will he vouches for, this too which is.
1:09:19
Speaker 1: Not all not All all laker Fans are, kobe fans
1:09:22
Speaker 1: but Not all kobe Fans.
1:09:22
Speaker 2: Are kobe's ahead in.
1:09:24
Speaker 1: The, Hierarchy yes kobe is higher up in. The hierarchy
1:09:29
Speaker 1: and this. Is double this was true before, he died
1:09:32
Speaker 1: but it cementous after.
1:09:34
Speaker 5: He, Died yes and it's fascinating because then you think,
1:09:36
Speaker 5: about it and then you Think about Kobe and lebron
1:09:38
Speaker 5: and they are polar opposite in so many ways in
1:09:40
Speaker 5: terms of their approach on, the court Where, like kobe
1:09:42
Speaker 5: IT'S like i shoot over, Four guys lebron passes to the.
1:09:44
Speaker 5: Open guy lebron's, you know all kinds of, Good teammate.
1:09:48
Speaker 5: Night's guy kobe was a bit of, a, Bleepole right
1:09:50
Speaker 5: kobe want to be Friends.
1:09:51
Speaker 2: Like kobe would to link up with our players on.
1:09:53
Speaker 5: Their teams lebron, obviously does and it sort of, becomes
1:09:56
Speaker 5: like that's The quote mamba mentality and his fans and
1:10:00
Speaker 5: go to war for That quote mama mentality being correct
1:10:03
Speaker 5: as Opposed to, lebron's approach and then all of, a
1:10:05
Speaker 5: sudden this guy you've been arguing arguing against is dropped
1:10:08
Speaker 5: into your city and it just creates these weird mix.
1:10:11
Speaker 1: Of, emotions well, you know, it's interesting this this the Persona.
1:10:18
Speaker 1: Of lebron, YOU know i Think about I'm a lebron. Defender,
1:10:24
Speaker 1: generally YEAH meaning i look at a kid at fifteen
1:10:28
Speaker 1: who's on the Cover Of, sports illustrated who's told he's
1:10:31
Speaker 1: going to be the next greatest basketball player of, all
1:10:33
Speaker 1: time that this guy's the heir Apparent Of. Michael jordan and.
1:10:35
Speaker 1: It's true he lives up to an absurd set of
1:10:40
Speaker 1: expectations that were set. For him, and oh by, the
1:10:43
Speaker 1: way there's no major Scandal around. Lebron's life you've never,
1:10:47
Speaker 1: you know, We can i'm sure you there's plenty of
1:10:49
Speaker 1: rumors that you've had to deal with that you know
1:10:51
Speaker 1: that people, would, say hey did you know this. About
1:10:53
Speaker 1: him there's rumors about. Every celebrity ninety percent of them
1:10:56
Speaker 1: are not true or so exaggerated they're more not true.
1:11:00
Speaker 1: Than true but, You know i'm one, of those, you
1:11:03
Speaker 1: know you sort of crowdsource. Somebody's life if he was a,
1:11:07
Speaker 1: bad dude after twenty, five years we'd have a parade
1:11:10
Speaker 1: of people telling us how bad of a dute. He,
1:11:12
Speaker 1: was right he's clearly a. Good guy he's a pretty,
1:11:16
Speaker 1: you know he's got a he's a good. Family man
1:11:19
Speaker 1: he's very protective of. HIS mother i think that's why
1:11:21
Speaker 1: he never was going to Go To. New york he
1:11:23
Speaker 1: didn't Trust The new york tabloids to leave his. Mother
1:11:25
Speaker 1: alone i've always believed That that's miami is this safe
1:11:30
Speaker 1: space yep. For That we miami has never Had A
1:11:34
Speaker 1: new york post culture Is what i'll. Call, it right
1:11:36
Speaker 1: There's no. Page six celebrities are allowed to Live in
1:11:39
Speaker 1: miami and people leave. Them alone it's very Similar. To
1:11:42
Speaker 1: la there's just not as many Celebrities in miami as
1:11:44
Speaker 1: there IS. In la but it's that. Same, thing oh
1:11:46
Speaker 1: everybody leaves. Him alone, you, know nobody, you know we're
1:11:49
Speaker 1: all we're all hiding from something Here. In miami that's why, we're,
1:11:52
Speaker 1: Here right that's, That's okay and yet he, Seems POLARIZING
1:11:59
Speaker 1: like i Understand why, kobe's polarizing but why the Hell?
1:12:03
Speaker 1: Did lebron how did it Hell did lebron end?
1:12:05
Speaker 2: Up polarizing it's it's it's it's not a good it's,
1:12:09
Speaker 2: the decision the. Original decision that's what. Does it and it's.
1:12:11
Speaker 2: SO strange, i mean this.
1:12:13
Speaker 5: Is a harsh way to, put it but it can
1:12:15
Speaker 5: Take the kobe. Comparison more, it's said people seem to
1:12:18
Speaker 5: have less of a problem getting over a sexual assault
1:12:21
Speaker 5: allegation and they do a pr free, agent THING which
1:12:26
Speaker 5: i don't, buy this BUT like i could, spin it
1:12:28
Speaker 5: that worst thing he ever did was do an awkward
1:12:30
Speaker 5: free agent thing that raised money.
1:12:31
Speaker 2: For charity like that's the worst thing, he, did, Right.
1:12:34
Speaker 5: Right, AND again i know the charity thing is a
1:12:36
Speaker 5: bit of a. COP out i don't know, full like
1:12:37
Speaker 5: but on, its surface that's. What it that's what.
1:12:40
Speaker 2: It is and and YET and i think he's never recovered.
1:12:43
Speaker 5: From that AND it's, i mean it kind of goes
1:12:45
Speaker 5: through your intro second about sports and what people feel
1:12:47
Speaker 5: like they're entitled to as fans and what, we expect
1:12:49
Speaker 5: how we expect athletes to uh.
1:12:53
Speaker 2: Serve us and it's it taps into all these. Greater things.
1:12:58
Speaker 1: You know it's interesting. THE decision i would argue that
1:13:02
Speaker 1: was the last moment where a majority of fans took
1:13:05
Speaker 1: the side of franchises, over players because ever, since then
1:13:10
Speaker 1: fans are more pro player.
1:13:11
Speaker 5: THAN franchise, i mean he sort of that and that's
1:13:14
Speaker 5: sort of like that's part of the depart of.
1:13:16
Speaker 2: His legacy ran ushrating the so called player powerm, that, right.
1:13:19
Speaker 1: Right he brought. It in he made a hell of
1:13:22
Speaker 1: a lot of Money For. Kevin, durant right he blazed
1:13:24
Speaker 1: a Trail For. Kevin, durant sure he blazed a Trail
1:13:28
Speaker 1: For chris paul and some of these other guys that
1:13:30
Speaker 1: made money ended up being able to sort of demand
1:13:34
Speaker 1: what they want Or A, kyrie, Irving Right. James harden
1:13:37
Speaker 1: we can go on. And on none of those guys
1:13:39
Speaker 1: are able to do with get what they Got if
1:13:41
Speaker 1: lebron hadn't done what he did right and he changed
1:13:45
Speaker 1: so changed. The game and yet this pioneer is not
1:13:49
Speaker 1: even held up in HIGH esteem i THINK among.
1:13:51
Speaker 4: NBA players i agree, it's, strange like obviously all respect his,
1:13:59
Speaker 4: no one there's, no oh everyone respects the greatness and,
1:14:02
Speaker 4: the longevity which is part, of it and the fact
1:14:04
Speaker 4: that he's forty or, forty one and like this is
1:14:06
Speaker 4: the first time we're seeing a little.
1:14:07
Speaker 2: Slip up it's insane.
1:14:08
Speaker 1: HE treats, i, MEAN look i also think he shows,
1:14:11
Speaker 1: you know to, be great you have to work. At,
1:14:13
Speaker 1: it yeah and you have to make. A choice you
1:14:15
Speaker 1: can't be a you can't live. The, Lifestyle Look michael
1:14:19
Speaker 1: jordan could live a high roller lifestyle and be great At,
1:14:22
Speaker 1: basketball lebron but, Guess what michael was still only great
1:14:28
Speaker 1: for a shorter period. Of time he was done.
1:14:32
Speaker 2: By, high thirty he was done and that he.
1:14:34
Speaker 1: Was done lebron trained his body and mine to be
1:14:38
Speaker 1: able to essentially Last Like. Tom brady and you know
1:14:42
Speaker 1: what's funny Is. Like brady, You know brady's also not
1:14:48
Speaker 1: beloved Outside Of. New england, he's respected. He's acknowledged but
1:14:53
Speaker 1: there's this weird Versus A. Peyton manning who's the more?
1:14:56
Speaker 1: Lovable guy right Yall Love. PEYTON manning I Want peyton
1:14:59
Speaker 1: manning to. Sponsor this, brady was, you Know but brady
1:15:03
Speaker 1: was so he seemed to be so obsessed with football
1:15:06
Speaker 1: you didn't care about the. OUTSIDE world I think lebron's
1:15:09
Speaker 1: mostly the.
1:15:10
Speaker 5: Same Way the brady is THE guy i always compare him,
1:15:13
Speaker 5: to right just because there is no take tennis out,
1:15:16
Speaker 5: of it but the Four major, American, sports like there's
1:15:18
Speaker 5: no comp to what these guys do to be, this
1:15:21
Speaker 5: great that great at. That age it's it's. Unheard of it's.
1:15:25
Speaker 5: Unheard of and like, the way one of THE things
1:15:26
Speaker 5: i DO is i loved this kind of like talk
1:15:28
Speaker 5: to people About how lebron has got him, like this
1:15:30
Speaker 5: and the way has explained.
1:15:31
Speaker 2: To me you know that he's mapping out.
1:15:33
Speaker 5: Every minute it shows you the discipline that every hour
1:15:35
Speaker 5: of every day's. Mapped out so they'll be Filming space
1:15:38
Speaker 5: jam and then it's like two twenty and his trainer pop.
1:15:41
Speaker 5: A joke he pops out of a trap door for
1:15:42
Speaker 5: like his two twenty seven and kinwa right or things,
1:15:45
Speaker 5: like that just knowing. Every Hour michael beasley told me
1:15:47
Speaker 5: His stories lebron's, longtime friends saying it's like A bleeping
1:15:50
Speaker 5: nascar pit stop around him half. The time just these
1:15:52
Speaker 5: guys are always, around there, and yeah it's something, about
1:15:55
Speaker 5: IT but, i agree so the, respects there.
1:15:57
Speaker 2: But he's not beloved the SAME way I think.
1:15:59
Speaker 5: Kobe, parts again It's a jordan Thing and, Kobe thing
1:16:01
Speaker 5: like these are guys who you hear people talk about people, meaning,
1:16:05
Speaker 5: fans media but also players talk about in a different Way.
1:16:09
Speaker 2: Than lebron and. It's fascinating.
1:16:16
Speaker 1: This this lebron's.
1:16:18
Speaker 2: LAST year i.
1:16:19
Speaker 1: DON'T know, i mean you know this is it'd obviously
1:16:22
Speaker 1: be really good for your book if, it was.
1:16:24
Speaker 5: He would try to hitting that. Moving target, MY answers i,
1:16:26
Speaker 5: don't KNOW but I genuinely i don't think. He knows
1:16:28
Speaker 5: that's my read on.
1:16:29
Speaker 1: IT is i.
1:16:29
Speaker 5: DON'T think i think he's sort of he's a free
1:16:31
Speaker 5: agent now they. Left it, he sorry he's on. Expiring
1:16:33
Speaker 5: contract he is for the first time in. His career
1:16:35
Speaker 5: he is on. EXPIRING deal i think he's it seems
1:16:38
Speaker 5: to be he's wreckon reckoning with no longer being the
1:16:41
Speaker 5: power player.
1:16:42
Speaker 2: That he once was and no longer being in.
1:16:44
Speaker 5: Total control he also like there's a lot of things
1:16:47
Speaker 5: he wants to a lot of boxes he wants. To
1:16:48
Speaker 5: check like most assume he's gonna want a Farewell tour
1:16:50
Speaker 5: he also has made clear talking about the player of.
1:16:52
Speaker 1: Powerment stuff so he doesn't have a farewell, tour, Now
1:16:55
Speaker 1: correct so, that's good have announced it.
1:16:56
Speaker 2: This. Year correct that makes me think where it's going
1:16:59
Speaker 2: to get one? More year he DOESN'T take Caf, of,
1:17:02
Speaker 2: Cleveland right, it, does right because it comes back to
1:17:05
Speaker 2: so where is it going.
1:17:06
Speaker 5: To be, it's like if you're doing a, farewell tour
1:17:08
Speaker 5: it's gonna Be A lake Lakers.
1:17:10
Speaker 2: Or calves. That's it, anyone else.
1:17:11
Speaker 1: That's, it yeah it doesn't even make Sense for. Miami,
1:17:14
Speaker 1: anymore right you can't Make a. Miami.
1:17:16
Speaker 5: Case, Yeah no and and and he doesn't take. Pay
1:17:19
Speaker 5: cuts that's. The part he's gonna have to. Be interesting
1:17:20
Speaker 5: it's gonna. Be interesting So, since miami He, joined miami
1:17:23
Speaker 5: he took a pay cut to, Join them and since
1:17:25
Speaker 5: then we talked about the. Player empowerment he's been very big,
1:17:27
Speaker 5: ON like i don't take. Pay cuts we take the.
1:17:29
Speaker 5: Max DEAL and i don't think.
1:17:31
Speaker 2: It's for like.
1:17:31
Speaker 5: SELFISH reasons i think it's more of representing the player
1:17:33
Speaker 5: for us and sort of being, you know union guy
1:17:35
Speaker 5: for lack of a. Better term and if you're not
1:17:38
Speaker 5: willing to take a pay cut your your options are limited.
1:17:41
Speaker 5: Right where, you KNOW if i was, ADVISING him i, might,
1:17:43
Speaker 5: say no one's going to call you a scab at
1:17:45
Speaker 5: the age of, forty one you take ten million dollars instead, of, Thirty,
1:17:47
Speaker 5: right like, that's okay go where.
1:17:49
Speaker 2: You WANT but i don't know what.
1:17:50
Speaker 1: He, WANTS well, I mean cleveland is a fascinating destination
1:17:55
Speaker 1: right now because he might be able to win a
1:17:58
Speaker 1: title too this farewell if he chose to do that.
1:18:01
Speaker 1: NEXT year, i mean this is a team that is,
1:18:03
Speaker 1: it is it is in it's the best version Of
1:18:06
Speaker 1: The cleveland cavaliers without a Guy Named lebron james on
1:18:09
Speaker 1: it as.
1:18:09
Speaker 5: It is, FOR sure i thought he should have gone
1:18:12
Speaker 5: there like he because he's kind of put out again
1:18:14
Speaker 5: some passive aggressive statements, this YEAR and i remember being
1:18:16
Speaker 5: like talking to some people IN the nba and just,
1:18:18
Speaker 5: be like do what, You want like do you want to,
1:18:20
Speaker 5: go home Go to cleveland then, it's fine or you
1:18:22
Speaker 5: want to stay do what.
1:18:22
Speaker 2: HE wants, I agree and.
1:18:23
Speaker 1: As, a player you know the Beauty Of lebron and
1:18:26
Speaker 1: just to me is why you got to give it
1:18:29
Speaker 1: to him as a as, a teammate is that he
1:18:32
Speaker 1: he'd understands he knows how to play a role if
1:18:35
Speaker 1: that's the best way to win. A, GAME yep i
1:18:38
Speaker 1: mean he could be an important role player in oddly
1:18:42
Speaker 1: That that cleveland could use.
1:18:43
Speaker 5: For sure and THE part i joke is like we talked, about,
1:18:45
Speaker 5: it like, you know he's not top five. Player anymore
1:18:48
Speaker 5: last year he was second TEAM, o mba which means
1:18:50
Speaker 5: he was, top twenty. Top, ten, still like it's still
1:18:52
Speaker 5: incredible if, he wanted he won't. Do it we have,
1:18:55
Speaker 5: you know most, old guys you get to the point
1:18:57
Speaker 5: where they're kind of the bench guy playing fifteen minutes.
1:18:58
Speaker 2: A game like he could do that for seven more
1:19:00
Speaker 2: years if he. Wanted to he's so good and.
1:19:02
Speaker 5: So, smart uh and talk about the role, player STUFF
1:19:04
Speaker 5: so i mean anything would takehim for next year.
1:19:06
Speaker 1: For, sure, well look the other issue here has To be, brownie,
1:19:11
Speaker 1: Yep right and it's and and and the role of
1:19:14
Speaker 1: and then his, middle son who, some argue who's a
1:19:17
Speaker 1: little bit taller than, his, brother.
1:19:19
Speaker 5: Right correct so my Understanding is Bryce was bryce is the.
1:19:22
Speaker 5: Other one he was once a. Better prospect it seems
1:19:24
Speaker 5: to be Unclear now bronnie's condition. Is, WHY also i
1:19:28
Speaker 5: always thought, you know and if you're, writing it, you're,
1:19:30
Speaker 5: like oh THAT'S what. I WANT but i always thought
1:19:32
Speaker 5: this would be last Year because bronnie's, he's no his
1:19:34
Speaker 5: contract is no longer guaranteed after. This year so that's
1:19:37
Speaker 5: part of the EQUATION which i find, really interesting and
1:19:40
Speaker 5: so weally not talked.
1:19:41
Speaker 2: About, MUCH yeah i. DON'T know i don't know if
1:19:46
Speaker 2: another team Would.
1:19:46
Speaker 5: Take bronnie if the The reason lebron was able to
1:19:49
Speaker 5: force that through last time is because he was still
1:19:51
Speaker 5: good enough to force, that through you know.
1:19:53
Speaker 2: At, this point at this point is at, THE case i,
1:19:55
Speaker 2: Don't know well.
1:19:57
Speaker 1: It would any? Of us would any other team Have? Drafted? Smith,
1:20:01
Speaker 1: NO no I mean i do think a team would
1:20:03
Speaker 1: Have Drafted. BROWNIE james i do actually believe that another
1:20:05
Speaker 1: team would HAVE because i think that was always. Another,
1:20:08
Speaker 1: rumor hey does a team Who wants lebron and the
1:20:12
Speaker 1: for two for like sort of a two year, farewell
1:20:14
Speaker 1: tour do They draft brownie as a way to?
1:20:17
Speaker 2: Bait him, right too and Clearly and Clutch or bron's
1:20:20
Speaker 2: they just was worried about that because they they They,
1:20:23
Speaker 2: forced bronni they would basically turn.
1:20:25
Speaker 1: Other teams away from himself and they told them, don't
1:20:27
Speaker 1: draft because he was ended up drafting the. Second round
1:20:29
Speaker 1: they told other teams do.
1:20:31
Speaker 5: Not draft, they said you know some team that heard
1:20:33
Speaker 5: stories about teams on asking His Agent, rich Paul would
1:20:35
Speaker 5: bronnie played IN The g league and the, answer was
1:20:37
Speaker 5: he ain't know if it works WITH the, nba schedule
1:20:38
Speaker 5: which was not what they were, really, Implying right that
1:20:40
Speaker 5: wasn't the reason the question was asked that or they
1:20:43
Speaker 5: have draft telling teams if you, draft him he's Going,
1:20:45
Speaker 5: to australia like they really they.
1:20:47
Speaker 2: Were forcing it through to make sure that he would
1:20:49
Speaker 2: end up With. The lakers what.
1:20:50
Speaker 1: Does lebron want out of this for? His SONS if
1:20:53
Speaker 1: i GET if i get critical, at All and I'M
1:20:55
Speaker 1: always i don't like TO be i don't like my
1:20:59
Speaker 1: parenting to be back, seat DRIVEN so. I don't i'm
1:21:01
Speaker 1: hesitant to backseat drive. Another parent, But man i'd like
1:21:05
Speaker 1: TO think i wouldn't put that much pressure on, my
1:21:07
Speaker 1: kids and he's Put some he's put some serious Pressure.
1:21:12
Speaker 1: ON BROWN i i feel nothing but Empathy, for BRONNIE
1:21:14
Speaker 1: and i know that that, seems ODD but i.
1:21:16
Speaker 5: Do no, you know it's, So INTERESTING so i agree
1:21:18
Speaker 5: With you so The lebron brownie think is really interesting
1:21:20
Speaker 5: because he's said he's been in locker rooms saying things
1:21:24
Speaker 5: out loud when he knows reporters, are around, Like oh bronnie,
1:21:26
Speaker 5: could play he's better than half these guys IN, the
1:21:28
Speaker 5: nba or tweeting out about my drafts, being bad all
1:21:32
Speaker 5: these THINGS where i, would say as a, parent too
1:21:34
Speaker 5: like that.
1:21:35
Speaker 2: Seems awful that seems.
1:21:36
Speaker 5: Just bad and then and yet clearly they've done something Right,
1:21:40
Speaker 5: because bronnie by, all accounts is a REALLY he's, i
1:21:44
Speaker 5: mean he's, well liked, he's respectful he, works hard everyone loves.
1:21:50
Speaker 1: Actually really and he's just like, his father pretty high basketball.
1:21:54
Speaker 1: Like you he may not have, the abilities but he
1:21:56
Speaker 1: knows what he should, be.
1:21:57
Speaker 2: Doing correct so Everyone.
1:21:59
Speaker 5: Loves brownie so, the fact WHEN whenever i find myself
1:22:02
Speaker 5: saying that seems like, awful, parenting RIGHT whenever i find myself, saying.
1:22:05
Speaker 2: THAT fine i sit. There too, Yeah RIGHT and i.
1:22:07
Speaker 5: Kind of, counted saying you know what they raised in
1:22:10
Speaker 5: basically on the. Celebrity spotlight they raised a kid and
1:22:13
Speaker 5: it seemed to have. Worked OUT so i don't know
1:22:14
Speaker 5: if that's luck or they knew what they were doing
1:22:16
Speaker 5: so that's kind OF how. I deffer but it's funny
1:22:17
Speaker 5: you say That because i've had these same conversations with
1:22:19
Speaker 5: people and, with myself, you know internal dialogues about.
1:22:21
Speaker 1: This STUFF and i guess that that's that's going to be.
1:22:25
Speaker 1: A factor what what do we Think is middle sun
1:22:28
Speaker 1: Is at arizona that he Arizonated to so is? Are
1:22:30
Speaker 1: they is he gonna play? THIS year i it was
1:22:32
Speaker 1: that game was on last NIGHT and i forgot that
1:22:35
Speaker 1: there Was a james. ON there i should have checked.
1:22:37
Speaker 1: It out it would have, been good, uh, good good
1:22:40
Speaker 1: uh prep, For this but is he going?
1:22:42
Speaker 2: To play, They don't.
1:22:44
Speaker 5: They don't they don't Know from bryce's Perspective. And lebron
1:22:47
Speaker 5: lebron a media day, was asked.
1:22:48
Speaker 2: You know you're gonna wait? For HIM and i forget
1:22:49
Speaker 2: exact well it was, basically no, You know i'm not waiting.
1:22:52
Speaker 2: For him you know we're not going to get to.
1:22:53
Speaker 1: That point so there's a World where Luca and lebron
1:22:59
Speaker 1: could be a fascinating version sort of a twenty first
1:23:04
Speaker 1: century Version of Kareem, and magic sort of one guy
1:23:07
Speaker 1: at the in the sunset of, his career one guy
1:23:10
Speaker 1: getting ready for his. Peak powers but WHY do i
1:23:14
Speaker 1: get the sense that there's just no chemistry between.
1:23:16
Speaker 5: These two so the funny, part, is well they haven't
1:23:18
Speaker 5: played a. Lot together that's the. Short answer Lebron, loves
1:23:22
Speaker 5: Luca like luca is one of. These guys first, of
1:23:24
Speaker 5: ALL all nba players. Respect him he's sort of lebron
1:23:27
Speaker 5: like in terms of his, you know the chess master moving.
1:23:29
Speaker 5: Pieces around Years ago.
1:23:32
Speaker 1: Lebron had to. Play defense lebron plays.
1:23:34
Speaker 5: For sure, for sure but so years ago lebronch was
1:23:37
Speaker 5: going to build out or was building out His Own
1:23:39
Speaker 5: Jordan like lebron Line, for Nike and luca was one
1:23:42
Speaker 5: of the guys he targeted and that was. Way, before,
1:23:44
Speaker 5: So like luca's always been a guy, he likes and
1:23:46
Speaker 5: he talks to People around lebron now and, they, Say
1:23:48
Speaker 5: no Lebron. Loves Luca the lakers he might feel, differently, About,
1:23:51
Speaker 5: Right so LIKE the i think anything you're seeing is
1:23:54
Speaker 5: if you see a passive aggressive or you maybe see
1:23:56
Speaker 5: a Clip of lebron watch a game and maybe not
1:23:59
Speaker 5: being Mister. RAW raga i think that's More about lakers
1:24:01
Speaker 5: organizational and the fact that they haven't given him that
1:24:04
Speaker 5: they didn't offer him a contract extension last summer as
1:24:07
Speaker 5: opposed to.
1:24:07
Speaker 2: Any issues With the.
1:24:08
Speaker 1: Encore guys but in fairness To, the lakers, my GOD
1:24:13
Speaker 1: what i mean they CAN'T keep i, WOULD argue, I
1:24:17
Speaker 1: mean I think and this is the real question is
1:24:19
Speaker 1: when you ask, basketball people Has keeping lebron around actually,
1:24:24
Speaker 1: you know certainly pre Trade. Of, luca Look the luca
1:24:27
Speaker 1: trade falls into, their lap which is you, know why
1:24:29
Speaker 1: there's why our Friend mister simmons wants to have a.
1:24:32
Speaker 1: Conspiracy theory but somehow this. Helps them it is amazing
1:24:35
Speaker 1: how Often the Celtics and lakers end up with, of course,
1:24:38
Speaker 1: oh boy just when they need a player to, keep
1:24:40
Speaker 1: it of course their, legacy going they find. It right
1:24:44
Speaker 1: but it. It doesn't it doesn't seem as if That
1:24:52
Speaker 1: keeping lebron has actually been good For the lakers for
1:24:55
Speaker 1: the rest of. This decade this isn't the right way
1:24:57
Speaker 1: to prepare for A Post. Lebron, LAKERS no i agree.
1:25:02
Speaker 5: WITH you i don't think. They're wrong and the most
1:25:04
Speaker 5: the interesting part is they were. Doing this they were
1:25:06
Speaker 5: moving On.
1:25:07
Speaker 2: Before lucas so if you, look back if you're, you
1:25:09
Speaker 2: Know the LAKERS Hired jj red to be the head
1:25:11
Speaker 2: coach before, Last year.
1:25:13
Speaker 1: There's always been a question that Was not lebron's. First,
1:25:16
Speaker 1: choice correct it was.
1:25:18
Speaker 2: It was it Wasn't that lebron was Out of it
1:25:20
Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily his. First choice like he.
1:25:22
Speaker 5: They floated that they had floated they want some, other
1:25:25
Speaker 5: guys and everyone Assumed because LEBRON And jj redick were
1:25:27
Speaker 5: hosting a, podcast together because, not really since it's twenty,
1:25:30
Speaker 5: twenty five why wouldn't that be?
1:25:31
Speaker 2: The case of course.
1:25:32
Speaker 1: That's what by, The Way rich paul apparently is going
1:25:35
Speaker 1: to have a Podcast, with simmons right and in.
1:25:38
Speaker 5: That world so if you, want to if anyone who
1:25:41
Speaker 5: wants to do a fun, google now then You Know,
1:25:42
Speaker 5: rich paul's, you know going to be Working With. Bill
1:25:44
Speaker 5: simmons look Up What rich paul Set About bill simmons
1:25:47
Speaker 5: in an Interview With isaac Channer Into, new yorker and
1:25:49
Speaker 5: that'll be A.
1:25:50
Speaker 1: Fun Google to, simmons credit he kind of alluded, to
1:25:53
Speaker 1: it but he in his podcast earlier, this week but,
1:25:55
Speaker 1: he said, He, goes yeah when we had the, first
1:25:57
Speaker 1: meeting it wasn't clear whether there's. This Question there's Rich,
1:26:01
Speaker 1: like Bill there's Bill like rich, Get, Right Yeah.
1:26:05
Speaker 5: So amazon i'll say It's About rich paul's this. IS
1:26:07
Speaker 5: separate I Like. RICH paul i find like he is
1:26:11
Speaker 5: a professionals.
1:26:11
Speaker 2: Wrong word he just. Gets it he's not sensitive like.
1:26:13
Speaker 2: He can.
1:26:14
Speaker 5: He can he's okay if you, criticize him and then
1:26:16
Speaker 5: you can talk, about it talking out and he's cool.
1:26:18
Speaker 5: With it, you know sometimes people in the sports world
1:26:20
Speaker 5: are uber sensitive, about things and he is not one.
1:26:23
Speaker 2: Of them but we were saying TO The, jj Redick
1:26:26
Speaker 2: the LAKERS hire jj reg to be their.
1:26:27
Speaker 5: Head coach and you listen to that, press conference it's
1:26:29
Speaker 5: hilarious because they're talking like They're The Oklaho. City thunder
1:26:32
Speaker 5: they're talking about it's a. New world we went into.
1:26:35
Speaker 5: Player development they talk about they're going to make a player,
1:26:37
Speaker 5: development APP which i don't know whatever happened. To that,
1:26:40
Speaker 5: you know there's new salary. Cap structures we don't do.
1:26:42
Speaker 5: Superstars anymore luca then falls to the lap and they.
1:26:44
Speaker 5: Change everything but they were moving On from lebron before.
1:26:48
Speaker 2: Last year.
1:26:50
Speaker 1: Let's do two more items here BEFORE before i let.
1:26:53
Speaker 1: You go One Is magic johnson's relationship With, the lakers?
1:26:58
Speaker 1: Is it is there? One anymore or, you know after
1:27:02
Speaker 1: the debacle of his role has sort of head of.
1:27:04
Speaker 1: Basketball operations and now that he's, YOU know i see
1:27:08
Speaker 1: him In most commanders games now hanging out with is
1:27:12
Speaker 1: a part owner of. That team he's a part owner.
1:27:14
Speaker 1: Of that he was all Over, the dodgers like, of
1:27:16
Speaker 1: course it seems like he always knew where the.
1:27:18
Speaker 2: Camera was there's, a camera there's.
1:27:20
Speaker 1: A Camera there's magic finding his way.
1:27:22
Speaker 2: Into.
1:27:23
Speaker 1: It right what's the Relationship Between magic Lebron and magic And?
1:27:28
Speaker 5: The, lakers okay so the most interesting part is That
1:27:30
Speaker 5: the lakers just sold Recently To, mark walter who Owns.
1:27:34
Speaker 5: The Dodgers So, MAGIC johnson i guess is it's it's
1:27:37
Speaker 5: actually interesting question because people, don't know and people are
1:27:41
Speaker 5: AROUND the nba are. Really Curious so magic. It ended
1:27:44
Speaker 5: the background is Him And genie boss were basically like brother,
1:27:47
Speaker 5: and sister. So close she brings him in for a
1:27:49
Speaker 5: year to run or two years, he's there and, it
1:27:51
Speaker 5: ends like, you, said horribly just a. Flame out it's embarrassing,
1:27:54
Speaker 5: to her embarrassing to. The franchise and then he GOES
1:27:56
Speaker 5: on tv and He Accuses, rob polenka general manager who's
1:28:00
Speaker 5: still the, general manager of. Backstabbing him he says that
1:28:03
Speaker 5: that's Not even he's not like, sources say he's saying
1:28:05
Speaker 5: that the Step n Smith that rapulinka backstabby on. First,
1:28:07
Speaker 5: Take Right so ropolink is, still there he's still the, general,
1:28:12
Speaker 5: Manager right he's. Still there lebron was not thrilled with
1:28:16
Speaker 5: how the. Magic stuff And then lebron also they him
1:28:20
Speaker 5: and his group were. Really accommodating maybe it's the, wrong
1:28:23
Speaker 5: word like magic after They saw lebron was.
1:28:25
Speaker 1: VERY big, i mean wasn't magic credited With recruiting lebron and.
1:28:28
Speaker 2: So this is to. Be credited this IS when i say.
1:28:32
Speaker 2: They're accommodating they were very Accommodating, to magic telling, the
1:28:35
Speaker 2: setting the narrative, Going On jimmy.
1:28:37
Speaker 5: Kimmell talking about how He's outside lebron's house at midnight.
1:28:40
Speaker 5: Or whatever and, that was as someone explained, TO me
1:28:42
Speaker 5: I think i put this in, the Book like lebron
1:28:44
Speaker 5: was going There whether magic was there. Or not but
1:28:45
Speaker 5: they were okay To let magic. Do that sot they.
1:28:48
Speaker 5: Do that And, then magic besides being bad at, the
1:28:51
Speaker 5: job just to leave in this ridiculous way of announcing
1:28:53
Speaker 5: in a press conference without telling anyone he's leaving and
1:28:55
Speaker 5: just basically walking out.
1:28:56
Speaker 2: The door.
1:28:57
Speaker 5: It's EMBARRASSING so i don't think the relationship between Him
1:28:59
Speaker 5: and lebron IS like i think Everyone respects magic and what.
1:29:03
Speaker 5: HE was i wouldn't say that's particularly Close the lake
1:29:05
Speaker 5: and Him And genie bus their relationship is, still there
1:29:08
Speaker 5: but it's not what it. Once was but again repeating
1:29:10
Speaker 5: what it looks Like when magic's partner now BUYS the
1:29:14
Speaker 5: uh Buys the lakers and what, that MEANS it's i
1:29:17
Speaker 5: can tell you people asking me that QUESTION and i, Don't, know.
1:29:20
Speaker 1: Well Are the buses keeping a piece of.
1:29:22
Speaker 5: The team So the genie is, fifteen percent which is
1:29:26
Speaker 5: the minimum amount required to still be officially, the governor.
1:29:29
Speaker 2: And she's the governor the governor of.
1:29:31
Speaker 4: The.
1:29:31
Speaker 1: Rep.
1:29:32
Speaker 2: Yeah correct that could.
1:29:33
Speaker 5: Always change and we've seen other examples in like where
1:29:37
Speaker 5: we've told, You Know mark cuban sold the team and
1:29:38
Speaker 5: said he was going to be Running in it wasn't.
1:29:40
Speaker 5: The case this seems to be more locked in, than
1:29:42
Speaker 5: that but they could change.
1:29:45
Speaker 1: Any, minute, politics Yes and Lebron has. It's funny, IT'S
1:29:53
Speaker 1: like i actually don't think he's weighed in that often
1:29:55
Speaker 1: in politics COMPARED to i could argue compared to even Shack.
1:29:59
Speaker 1: At magic Shock and magic show up, on events they.
1:30:02
Speaker 1: Do stuff when they did Stuff, for obama, You, know
1:30:06
Speaker 1: lebron it was always More the obama people Wanted, more
1:30:09
Speaker 1: Lebron and lebron was, you know Felt Like michael jordan
1:30:14
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety when he refused To Endorse harvey gant
1:30:17
Speaker 1: In The Jesse helm senate Race Of. North carolina he
1:30:20
Speaker 1: never actually said, the Quote well republicans by but, you
1:30:24
Speaker 1: know it's always been the lie, know, Shocker right but
1:30:27
Speaker 1: the legend of that quote sits, out THERE and i
1:30:30
Speaker 1: always got a Sense, that lebron at least there was
1:30:32
Speaker 1: always a piece of him that, heard that and he
1:30:35
Speaker 1: would he certainly made, you know he did not want
1:30:38
Speaker 1: to seem like he, was unsupportive particularly of the Concerns Of,
1:30:41
Speaker 1: african americans so he never wanted to be seen as not.
1:30:44
Speaker 1: Supportive there but HE never I never i've never thought
1:30:48
Speaker 1: of him as as active in politics as the reputation
1:30:53
Speaker 1: that is out there in the right in particular is that.
1:30:55
Speaker 1: HE is i think that's a.
1:30:57
Speaker 2: Great way to.
1:30:57
Speaker 5: Put IT and i think the way YOU put i
1:30:59
Speaker 5: think what you just said the ending, part, there right
1:31:02
Speaker 5: how he gets framed by the right and sort of
1:31:04
Speaker 5: in today's world where you just you know you're good.
1:31:06
Speaker 5: Or bad everything's by it.
1:31:07
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter it's sort of what the different we we
1:31:10
Speaker 1: live in these, different ecosystems and the right has decided he,
1:31:14
Speaker 1: politicizes everything and, you're, like really, because correct he really
1:31:18
Speaker 1: doesn't when you when, YOU look, i mean, you know he.
1:31:20
Speaker 1: Does not he does not get, Actively involved he doesn't write,
1:31:23
Speaker 1: big checks he doesn't show UP in. Tv Ads magic
1:31:26
Speaker 1: johnson does all of those things right and.
1:31:28
Speaker 2: Always, has Yeah, NO lebron i mean even the first ones.
1:31:31
Speaker 2: He did, it's interesting so he never did Anything until
1:31:34
Speaker 2: obama two thousand.
1:31:35
Speaker 5: AND eight i think It WAS jay z was at
1:31:37
Speaker 5: a thing that Basically brought, lebron In brought lebron, with
1:31:40
Speaker 5: right it, was, correct correct you'll Member The. Trayvon martin
1:31:43
Speaker 5: he had a statement with. The heat but the interesting
1:31:45
Speaker 5: it was it, Wasn't him it was, the whole all,
1:31:47
Speaker 5: the teammates the who. Entire team he's with, the group hooded.
1:31:50
Speaker 5: Sweatshirt on and then there Was another.
1:31:51
Speaker 2: I'm, gonna forget Might Been.
1:31:52
Speaker 1: ERIC garner i.
1:31:53
Speaker 5: Don't know Maybe In. NEW york i can't breathe and
1:31:55
Speaker 5: he wasn't sure if he was going to DO a.
1:31:56
Speaker 5: T shirt he was sort of in and out in twenty.
1:31:59
Speaker 5: Twenty two things what twenty Sixteen with trump seemed to
1:32:02
Speaker 5: ignite him a. LITTLE bit, i mean is the famous you,
1:32:04
Speaker 5: bum tweet which is pretty Funny because.
1:32:05
Speaker 1: Trump went, after him and, of correct, you know, You,
1:32:08
Speaker 1: know lebron. It's funny he is just like us in
1:32:10
Speaker 1: that he lets social media get under his.
1:32:12
Speaker 2: Skin, everyone so, for sure one hundred percent he's very
1:32:15
Speaker 2: much in on.
1:32:16
Speaker 5: Social media and then the most involved he got was
1:32:18
Speaker 5: twenty twenty in, the bubble WHICH again i mean that's
1:32:20
Speaker 5: we'll look back in that fifty years from now and
1:32:22
Speaker 5: just a million everybody.
1:32:23
Speaker 1: Did This Was. George floyd this was sort. Of right
1:32:26
Speaker 1: it's like people getting involved in the civil rights movement in.
1:32:28
Speaker 1: The sixties it just wasn't like everybody was getting involved
1:32:31
Speaker 1: on and it.
1:32:32
Speaker 5: WASN'T specific i, mean again they were very specific what.
1:32:34
Speaker 5: They did him and, his guy he had, His Guy,
1:32:36
Speaker 5: Adam mendelssohn Who's Who's donold Schwarzenegger's communications guy's his, Communications guy,
1:32:41
Speaker 5: And well lebron is his group are really Good at
1:32:43
Speaker 5: they're great at finding experts what they want, to do
1:32:44
Speaker 5: and then we find the experts. Execute it so they
1:32:46
Speaker 5: get all these people from the. Political field i'm gonna.
1:32:49
Speaker 5: Forget there you WOULD if i knew told you, the
1:32:51
Speaker 5: names you would know.
1:32:51
Speaker 1: All, them NO but i Knew about mendelssohn and a. Few,
1:32:54
Speaker 1: others no he's. He's careful he doesn't, do stuff but
1:32:57
Speaker 1: whether it's business or politics, or culture he does does
1:33:00
Speaker 1: seem to be calculating. And careful and.
1:33:04
Speaker 5: They're right it wasn't about there was. Not voting it
1:33:06
Speaker 5: was there. Very specific it wasn't about a. Specific candidate
1:33:09
Speaker 5: it wasn't about Vote For. Joe biden it was let's
1:33:11
Speaker 5: mobilize and let's vote and make sure we can.
1:33:13
Speaker 2: Vote this That's an.
1:33:14
Speaker 5: American right there's, nothing political, which whatever but there's nothing
1:33:17
Speaker 5: political about getting out. To vote and that was what
1:33:19
Speaker 5: the how they. Pushed IT so i and, since, then
1:33:22
Speaker 5: honestly it's like, you said he might. Have endorsed he
1:33:25
Speaker 5: might Have endorsed biden HIS last i don't remember what.
1:33:27
Speaker 1: He Did and i'm sure He. Endorsed commel i'm not saying.
1:33:29
Speaker 1: HE didn't, i mean, my GOODNESS. The nba, YOU know
1:33:31
Speaker 1: i always. Say this, you KNOW the nfl is the
1:33:33
Speaker 1: truly the only equally divided, fan base and it really Looks.
1:33:37
Speaker 1: Like america, It, is yes it is fifty. TO fifty nba,
1:33:40
Speaker 1: leans left golf, lean's right baseball, leans right hockey, leans
1:33:44
Speaker 1: right like, you know, you know show me your fan
1:33:46
Speaker 1: Base and i'll show you which way they, lean exactly,
1:33:48
Speaker 1: you know and, you know so there certainly is an
1:33:52
Speaker 1: Assumption of, lebron's Politics but i've always thought he was
1:33:57
Speaker 1: put it. This way he wasn't nearly as front Facing
1:33:59
Speaker 1: as kareem was in.
1:34:00
Speaker 2: His, heyday no not, even close not. Even close and
1:34:03
Speaker 2: the only, THING is i would say so there was
1:34:05
Speaker 2: one point around twenty twenty where it seemed like he
1:34:07
Speaker 2: was thinking he wanted to maybe position himself as that
1:34:10
Speaker 2: would get that where he has like.
1:34:12
Speaker 5: He's walking Out WITH malcolm x books, and again but
1:34:14
Speaker 5: this is twenty twenty and LIKE he's, i mean twenty
1:34:16
Speaker 5: twenty was just we could throw it out the window
1:34:17
Speaker 5: in terms of what people were doing and.
1:34:19
Speaker 2: How people are.
1:34:20
Speaker 5: Approaching things but he did seem to sort of be
1:34:22
Speaker 5: sort of be dabbling in some of. THAT stuff i think,
1:34:24
Speaker 5: HE rightfully i don't think that's, his SPECIALTY and i
1:34:27
Speaker 5: think he's been smart to sort of pull back on
1:34:29
Speaker 5: that a. Little bit so that's the ONLY thing i.
1:34:31
Speaker 5: Would say but the other part is The lawer ingram
1:34:33
Speaker 5: shut Up in. Dribble right that was the, other thing
1:34:35
Speaker 5: which was again we talked about coded and not, even,
1:34:38
Speaker 5: coded right and now that across, the line and that
1:34:42
Speaker 5: also ignited and that sort of set him off in a.
1:34:43
Speaker 1: Way, too no It's always i've always Thought ro lebron
1:34:46
Speaker 1: was a reactive.
1:34:47
Speaker 2: Political person it's a great way to put it. IN person,
1:34:49
Speaker 2: i like that's a great way to.
1:34:50
Speaker 1: Put, it, yeah yeah well let me get you out
1:34:53
Speaker 1: of here. On this in, Twenty years lebron is going
1:34:56
Speaker 1: to be. We, know look we can have the. GOAT
1:34:59
Speaker 1: converse i actually somebody who Thinks That magic johnson should
1:35:03
Speaker 1: be in the in a three way conversation With with Jordan.
1:35:07
Speaker 1: And lebron and my, argument is you Know what Jordan
1:35:10
Speaker 1: and lebron. Didn't do they didn't win a title in their.
1:35:11
Speaker 1: First year they didn't take a team that didn't make
1:35:13
Speaker 1: the playoffs and. Win IT and i. Love it, and
1:35:16
Speaker 1: oh by, the way if NOT, for Hiv does magic
1:35:19
Speaker 1: have six Rings and michael? Has five and what's the
1:35:21
Speaker 1: conversation right like, WE could, I could i could. Have
1:35:24
Speaker 1: That so i'm Always and i've Always thought lebron is
1:35:27
Speaker 1: if you if you went to a lab and you,
1:35:30
Speaker 1: and you your two Ingredients Were magic Johnson And, michael
1:35:32
Speaker 1: jordan you Would get Lebron, Right like lebron is the
1:35:35
Speaker 1: best of both. Of them so legacy stuff aside that
1:35:40
Speaker 1: the six titles versus, ten finals that's, you know that's
1:35:43
Speaker 1: always going to be the marker that one person makes
1:35:46
Speaker 1: one argument to Say, it's lebron another person makes The Argument.
1:35:49
Speaker 1: Sage jordan but the one place he has a chance
1:35:52
Speaker 1: To surpass Michael and magic is in being a front
1:35:57
Speaker 1: office guy and A right magic was terrible as, a
1:36:00
Speaker 1: coach terrible AS, A gm michael terrible AS, a gm
1:36:04
Speaker 1: terrible as. An owner we have first had experience Here
1:36:08
Speaker 1: in washington and we've watched the debacle That. Is charlotte
1:36:13
Speaker 1: is That what. Lebron is there a competitiveness in him
1:36:16
Speaker 1: that he sees an opportunity that he gets to have
1:36:19
Speaker 1: a legacy that that that nobody else OF the nba
1:36:22
Speaker 1: all time greats. Have had he can also be as
1:36:24
Speaker 1: successful on the business, side too that's a.
1:36:26
Speaker 5: GREAT question i don't know if he's Comparing. TO jordan
1:36:30
Speaker 5: i do think that's something he, cares. ABOUT right i
1:36:31
Speaker 5: do think being remembered in terms of as. A success,
1:36:34
Speaker 5: i mean we see he's a billion, dollar athlete like
1:36:36
Speaker 5: he's already, been there and, you know he's sort of approached.
1:36:40
Speaker 5: The business he's been one of these guys who's been
1:36:42
Speaker 5: into like we get equity. And companies that's going way
1:36:44
Speaker 5: back and ready since, you know since he, was twenty which.
1:36:46
Speaker 2: Was insane if you think.
1:36:47
Speaker 1: Of all The mistakes magic made, early on, he's, correct,
1:36:50
Speaker 1: right yeah HE just i.
1:36:51
Speaker 2: Mean this the THE the iq just it's through, the
1:36:54
Speaker 2: charts off. THE charts I do i think the legacy
1:37:00
Speaker 2: he is gonna be maybe different. THE ownerships i think.
1:37:03
Speaker 5: The legacy is going to be an all time great
1:37:04
Speaker 5: who was different than. Everyone, else right in terms of
1:37:07
Speaker 5: being remembered as between, the longevity the player, empowerment stuff
1:37:10
Speaker 5: that's gonna be a huge part. Of it i'm, LIKE
1:37:13
Speaker 5: you i joke that there's like forty top, ten, players
1:37:15
Speaker 5: right not top, of three but like you start naming top,
1:37:17
Speaker 5: ten guys and You named Jerry and Magic and Kareem
1:37:19
Speaker 5: and shack and you get to thirty five, of, Them
1:37:23
Speaker 5: right so it's kind of LIKE he's i don't know
1:37:25
Speaker 5: how to discern between any.
1:37:26
Speaker 1: Of, them, yeah, like well look, at baseball how do
1:37:29
Speaker 1: you have the show hate Conversation versus may's and and,
1:37:32
Speaker 1: you know we all had the official line back in
1:37:35
Speaker 1: the Day of mays and And And ruth and now, you're,
1:37:38
Speaker 1: like well what do we do With? Show hay, you,
1:37:40
Speaker 1: know right totally changes, that, Conversation right so.
1:37:43
Speaker 5: The ownership part is, interesting too because it also maybe
1:37:45
Speaker 5: and This is i'm thinking, about it like if it,
1:37:48
Speaker 5: went poorly it WOULD really i think it would, hurt
1:37:50
Speaker 5: him maybe more than It hurt Jordan and magic. As
1:37:53
Speaker 5: well and that's.
1:37:53
Speaker 2: Also, interesting, interesting huh.
1:37:56
Speaker 1: Just because The expects it's because the expectations bar is.
1:38:01
Speaker 5: So, high yeah and almost, like again talk to some
1:38:03
Speaker 5: of this stuff where we talk about and for, whatever
1:38:05
Speaker 5: reason he's not the love necessarily the, same way it's
1:38:08
Speaker 5: like you're starting at.
1:38:09
Speaker 2: A low it's like you're starting at.
1:38:10
Speaker 5: A five instead of, a, ten right and it cannock,
1:38:12
Speaker 5: you lower, you know you have it's almost like more
1:38:16
Speaker 5: to lose, or whatever as Opposed. TO jordan i Mean
1:38:20
Speaker 5: the jordan thinks wild nobody cares what he did at any point,
1:38:22
Speaker 5: he can like he SPEAKS On nbc now for three
1:38:24
Speaker 5: minutes and people think it's the greatest interview of.
1:38:26
Speaker 2: All, Time RIGHT it's i don't.
1:38:27
Speaker 1: GET it, I mean i Don't find jordan's, YOU know
1:38:30
Speaker 1: I find jordan's criticism of of players not playing every
1:38:35
Speaker 1: game to be totally naive of what the game. Is today,
1:38:37
Speaker 1: Of course like it's just like it's just he feels
1:38:40
Speaker 1: like a guy that doesn't even watch THE current nba
1:38:42
Speaker 1: if this is what.
1:38:43
Speaker 2: He, thinks no it was.
1:38:44
Speaker 5: So, predictable also like, you Knew like jordan on, load
1:38:47
Speaker 5: management they were like they kept, hyping THAT and i
1:38:48
Speaker 5: could TELL you i was, gonna say then we knew
1:38:50
Speaker 5: wearing the, same right he's wearing the. Same suit it
1:38:52
Speaker 5: seems like they talked to him once for like twenty
1:38:54
Speaker 5: five minutes and.
1:38:55
Speaker 1: Chopping exactly what. They, did, yeah right.
1:38:57
Speaker 2: And everyone but people are eating. It UP so i
1:38:59
Speaker 2: Want the jordan thing is the WHOLE sid i, don't
1:39:01
Speaker 2: know it's like this aura, around.
1:39:03
Speaker 1: Now There's A. GRETA garbo, i mean not to go.
1:39:05
Speaker 1: BACK way i mean it's a super, old, reference right
1:39:08
Speaker 1: but that was the. Old joke she stopped talking to.
1:39:10
Speaker 1: The press so anytime you heard a Quote of greta
1:39:11
Speaker 1: gar oh, my god we've heard from it's Like with
1:39:14
Speaker 1: jordan's weirdly he, never talks so whenever, you Know it's by,
1:39:18
Speaker 1: the way this is a good reminder if you're super
1:39:20
Speaker 1: famous withholding your comments on things and then make whatever
1:39:24
Speaker 1: you say down the road.
1:39:25
Speaker 2: More.
1:39:25
Speaker 5: Interesting correct, So yeah so IT'S just i don't know
1:39:28
Speaker 5: how anyone competes THE joy.
1:39:30
Speaker 2: I GET that's i guess That's what. I'M saying i
1:39:31
Speaker 2: don't know how you compete, with, That right IT just i,
1:39:33
Speaker 2: don't know.
1:39:34
Speaker 1: All right you doing a, book tour we were in
1:39:37
Speaker 1: the midst, of it in the midst, of, it, yes yeah?
1:39:40
Speaker 1: Is it how much of it? Is physical how much
1:39:41
Speaker 1: of it is? Most?
1:39:43
Speaker 2: Virtual yeah most? Is virtual and you say this year's
1:39:46
Speaker 2: year of twenty. Twenty five you, know, RIGHT well i
1:39:51
Speaker 2: know you you.
1:39:54
Speaker 1: What kind of reception are you getting from lebron world
1:39:56
Speaker 1: and what kind of reception are You from?
1:39:58
Speaker 5: Laker world So the, LAKE world, i mean it's a.
1:40:00
Speaker 5: Can Open the lakers threatened to sue me before this book,
1:40:03
Speaker 5: Came out so that was that was fun before the
1:40:04
Speaker 5: book came out over what not checking, the well.
1:40:08
Speaker 2: They hired, this guy but they they They Hired.
1:40:11
Speaker 5: Marty singer who was a famous defamation lawyer before they
1:40:13
Speaker 5: got the, fact check so they would claim it's a,
1:40:15
Speaker 5: fact check but they doesn't. Line up, so yeah so that.
1:40:19
Speaker 5: Was good So the laker world is.
1:40:21
Speaker 1: There's nothing that gives a book more promotion Than some
1:40:24
Speaker 1: yahoo threatening to. SUE IT i, i AGREE and i
1:40:27
Speaker 1: JOKE that i should thank them for, the marketing, YOU
1:40:29
Speaker 1: know i KIND of i was Gonna Send geny bussey thank,
1:40:31
Speaker 1: you note, you know, And Uh.
1:40:33
Speaker 5: Lebron world they're fine. With it, it's fine, You Know laker.
1:40:36
Speaker 5: World's Interesting so i'll get a quick it's. Been interesting
1:40:39
Speaker 5: lakers fans seem less interested in learning behind the scenes of.
1:40:42
Speaker 2: Their fans the books, doing fine, it's not, but like
1:40:44
Speaker 2: it's been interesting To hear lakers fans not interested in
1:40:47
Speaker 2: LEARNING about i wrote a book On. The sixers sixers.
1:40:51
Speaker 5: Fans want to hear every single thing that's happening in
1:40:54
Speaker 5: the front office right wrote process and that why things
1:40:57
Speaker 5: might not. Go well laker fans get, very defensive which
1:40:59
Speaker 5: is it's just. Interesting, SOCIOLOGICALLY well i.
1:41:02
Speaker 1: Think if You're a, laker, fan frankly you always know
1:41:05
Speaker 1: that it always. Works out THAT'S what.
1:41:07
Speaker 2: I think that's what.
1:41:07
Speaker 1: IT is, I mean, i'm sorry, you're, like wow they
1:41:10
Speaker 1: picked they picked eighth And Got. Kobe bryant, YOU'RE like,
1:41:13
Speaker 1: I mean i'll never. Forget that, you're, like oh What
1:41:16
Speaker 1: Does jerry west know? About this like the minute they drafted,
1:41:19
Speaker 1: The guy.
1:41:19
Speaker 2: You're, Like Oh jerry west must know something that none
1:41:22
Speaker 2: of us.
1:41:22
Speaker 1: Know Yet joe bryant's kid must be, that good, you know,
1:41:25
Speaker 1: of course, all right and he gets? Him?
1:41:26
Speaker 2: Eight?
1:41:27
Speaker 1: Right seven what? Is it seven teams passed Up.
1:41:29
Speaker 5: On kobe, it's wild it's uh and then that's, gonna
1:41:32
Speaker 5: yeah it's.
1:41:32
Speaker 2: It's wild. It's, Wild YEAH so, i, figure right.
1:41:35
Speaker 1: It always works out For. The lakers they always, get
1:41:38
Speaker 1: shocked they even if they don't get the guy the, first, time, right, Yep,
1:41:42
Speaker 1: exactly no not like We're beloved nicks who never get.
1:41:45
Speaker 1: That guy And yet knicks fans always think they're going.
1:41:48
Speaker 2: To get that. Guy coming lebron. Is coming they never come.
1:41:53
Speaker 5: For sure, for sure And, like lakers, You know luca
1:41:55
Speaker 5: fell into the lap. Last year now they're set for.
1:41:57
Speaker 5: Ten years, you, know.
1:41:58
Speaker 1: So, all right why haven't you done the why CAN'T
1:42:00
Speaker 1: the nixt? Win book.
1:42:03
Speaker 5: I've been, Told, that uh people like, Positive books That's
1:42:06
Speaker 5: what i've.
1:42:07
Speaker 2: Been told, that's uh. That's interesting, we're right you've got
1:42:10
Speaker 2: to get, people, hope right so the right, You Know
1:42:13
Speaker 2: jim dolan is a kind, of buffoon is not Gonna, the.
1:42:17
Speaker 1: Knicks though it is amazing the amount of devotion they
1:42:22
Speaker 1: have for a franchise that really is one of the
1:42:24
Speaker 1: most failing franchises in the history OF. The nba.
1:42:27
Speaker 2: It's wild it's kind. Of it it's like special, about it,
1:42:31
Speaker 2: you know it's it's it's, it's yeah it's like a
1:42:35
Speaker 2: it's they hate they hate, the ownership they love, the
1:42:38
Speaker 2: team but they know there's a fatalism.
1:42:39
Speaker 5: To it is a mix of fatalism, and hope which is. Really,
1:42:42
Speaker 5: strange yeah.
1:42:43
Speaker 1: It's, WILD no, i mean, it's funny, you know it's,
1:42:46
Speaker 1: always supposedly, You know knicks fans Are also yankees Fans and, giants,
1:42:49
Speaker 1: fans supposedly While the nets fans are more likely To
1:42:52
Speaker 1: be jets Fans and. Mets fans and, to Me the
1:42:55
Speaker 1: knick's history feels more Like the Jets and.
1:42:57
Speaker 2: Mets than it does a hundred per one. Hundred percent
1:43:01
Speaker 2: it lines up with that for one. Hundred, Percent, anyway
1:43:04
Speaker 2: well this.
1:43:05
Speaker 1: Was great You think lebron would ever run? For? Office oh.
1:43:09
Speaker 5: Great question i've not been. Asked That, UH no i don't.
1:43:12
Speaker 5: Think so i'm gonna, say no. That's, INTERESTING no i don't.
1:43:15
Speaker 1: Think so do you think he wants to be a
1:43:19
Speaker 1: kingmaker literally in the world? Of politics? Does he does?
1:43:22
Speaker 1: He do because That's what arnold would do for a
1:43:24
Speaker 1: while until he finally got dragged. In that, You know
1:43:27
Speaker 1: arnold is an interesting model for how you can be,
1:43:30
Speaker 1: a celebrity dabble in politics and then maybe do it
1:43:33
Speaker 1: for a small period of time but still keep. YOUR celebrity,
1:43:36
Speaker 1: I mean arnold's been the best at that compared to
1:43:40
Speaker 1: the celebrities. TURNED politicians i.
1:43:42
Speaker 5: Think we're going To, SEE lebron i. THINK almost I
1:43:46
Speaker 5: Think magic johnson is almost. The closer the come more
1:43:48
Speaker 5: of the comp in terms of, the business the, business
1:43:51
Speaker 5: stuff and we're seeing a little of the media.
1:43:53
Speaker 2: AND pie, i mean He's on DraftKings, ads NOW which
1:43:55
Speaker 2: i don't. Really UNDERSTAND but.
1:43:56
Speaker 1: I, Don't either BUT can i just, tell, you Man
1:43:59
Speaker 1: The Kevin harry lebron ads are. REALLY good i mean
1:44:03
Speaker 1: They humanize lebron in a way that nobody, else does.
1:44:06
Speaker 5: Which might be, the, point right BUT just i think
1:44:10
Speaker 5: it seems like, to me even That weird hennis which
1:44:11
Speaker 5: we died To the hennessy ad with the fake, decision
1:44:13
Speaker 5: thing which was, not great it seems to me we're
1:44:16
Speaker 5: we're reinvesting in in brands and, you know business side
1:44:21
Speaker 5: of things in an.
1:44:21
Speaker 2: Interesting way so THAT'S what i would guess we're headed
1:44:24
Speaker 2: in terms of the post.
1:44:25
Speaker 1: Playing Career does lebron write his OWN book i or
1:44:30
Speaker 1: does he instead do a.
1:44:31
Speaker 2: BIG documentary i was going to say this is again it,
1:44:33
Speaker 2: depresses me but it's where we are these DAYS that,
1:44:35
Speaker 2: i mean he's got cameras following him, around already they'll
1:44:38
Speaker 2: do they already, have that like they'll do their version
1:44:40
Speaker 2: Of The last. Dance again we'll compare It. To jordan
1:44:43
Speaker 2: it's gonna be. A documentary, UH yeah i hope we
1:44:46
Speaker 2: get a book like again, the guy, the writer reader
1:44:49
Speaker 2: or me wants, but uh you know again twenty. Twenty five, so.
1:44:52
Speaker 1: Yeah but then there's, some things, you know sometimes you
1:44:57
Speaker 1: don't want a book written until after the. PERSON dies
1:45:00
Speaker 1: i hate to put it, those ways but it's, you
1:45:02
Speaker 1: know well people around them tell you the real truth
1:45:05
Speaker 1: while the person, is stolen.
1:45:06
Speaker 5: Oh for sure from another in terms of someone doing
1:45:09
Speaker 5: the biography, on, Him, correct yeah in terms of him
1:45:11
Speaker 5: doing his, own, one, YEAH NO i i.
1:45:14
Speaker 2: He doesn't participate in any long form.
1:45:16
Speaker 5: Interviews now like they don't do it basically for the,
1:45:19
Speaker 5: most part because it's why would you.
1:45:20
Speaker 1: Do, THAT well i don't call him a, white Whale
1:45:23
Speaker 1: but I've probably i've, you know gotten close to striking
1:45:27
Speaker 1: Up A relationshipip maverick a number of times in order
1:45:29
Speaker 1: to try To get lebron and it's it's it's it's
1:45:32
Speaker 1: even in the. You know and he certainly at some
1:45:35
Speaker 1: point suddenly didn't want to be interviewed by a, political
1:45:37
Speaker 1: journalist right like that just that was not the image.
1:45:40
Speaker 5: They, Wanted, yeah SO like, i said, THEY have i
1:45:43
Speaker 5: think We'll see netflix documentaries and things.
1:45:45
Speaker 1: Like, that yeah this. WAS great i. Appreciate it. Congrats
1:45:50
Speaker 1: around this was this was terrific, AND uh i can't
1:45:53
Speaker 1: wait to.
1:45:53
Speaker 2: Finish it thank you. So much it's a lot. OF
1:45:55
Speaker 2: fun i.
1:45:55
Speaker 1: Love this.
1:45:55
Speaker 2: It's great, Thank, you, Chuck.
1:45:57
Speaker 1: Excellent well good luck with it and if, nothing else We're.
1:45:59
Speaker 1: In november you don't know what to GET your nba
1:46:02
Speaker 1: fan in. Your life there you go get them the
1:46:05
Speaker 1: book and get them a hard copy. Of, it anyway
1:46:08
Speaker 1: did you do your own audio?
1:46:10
Speaker 2: THIS time i. DID not i did my, last one
1:46:13
Speaker 2: and not to sound spoil it was the it's, the
1:46:15
Speaker 2: wife were doing your?
1:46:16
Speaker 1: Own audio and a book. Is painful it's. SO hard
1:46:19
Speaker 1: i think it's.
1:46:19
Speaker 5: Really hard it's And then i'm catching typos and it's
1:46:22
Speaker 5: making me angry because.
1:46:23
Speaker 2: You're reading THAT'S what i hated. About it it's a.
1:46:25
Speaker 1: Terrific exercise it. Really frees but you sit there and,
1:46:28
Speaker 1: you're going oh, my god how many TIMES did i use?
1:46:30
Speaker 1: This phrase oh? My god we got to? Fix it
1:46:32
Speaker 1: and then they tell you it's too late. To fix,
1:46:34
Speaker 1: too late, really.
1:46:35
Speaker 5: Torture right it'd be, great, if though, you know if you,
1:46:38
Speaker 5: weren't where if writers weren't all the standing going up against,
1:46:40
Speaker 5: the deadline if you gave, yourself, like okay i'll do.
1:46:42
Speaker 5: The audiobook i'll read it out aloud NOW because i
1:46:44
Speaker 5: have a two, weeks extra and so that's obviously never.
1:46:46
Speaker 5: The case so it's aside from the actual torture of
1:46:49
Speaker 5: reading it over, and over like it's your, torture yourself
1:46:52
Speaker 5: seeing mistakes and bad phrases and just you walk out
1:46:54
Speaker 5: there and, be, like oh this.
1:46:55
Speaker 2: Is awful what? Is this, so, yeah no not. This,
1:46:57
Speaker 2: TIME well i hope.
1:46:58
Speaker 1: You enjoyed my guest is you're going to hear people
1:47:02
Speaker 1: use nuggets of, your book Like during lakers games by
1:47:05
Speaker 1: Guys Like mike Breen, and tarrico who probably are all
1:47:09
Speaker 1: devouring it as. We speak so that'll be a lot
1:47:12
Speaker 1: of fun, FOR you.
1:47:13
Speaker 2: I hope So, thanks jacket.
1:47:15
Speaker 1: My friend it's good to.
1:47:15
Speaker 6: Meet You, all right it is Podcast time, machine time
1:47:28
Speaker 6: AND as, I teased i'm going to do some what
1:47:30
Speaker 6: ifs that you could argue are sort of.
1:47:34
Speaker 1: Going back at a time machine but impacting what happened
1:47:38
Speaker 1: and then coming back, and, seeing hey what happened when
1:47:41
Speaker 1: You gave biff the gamble the sports almanac and he
1:47:45
Speaker 1: could go back in time and gamble on all the. Actual,
1:47:47
Speaker 1: Outcomes right so we'll be doing, you know in some
1:47:51
Speaker 1: ways that is the distortion Of Our todd Cash time.
1:47:54
Speaker 1: Eschine SEGMENT but i am in straightforward mode and as,
1:47:57
Speaker 1: you know just to give you sort of the parameters
1:47:59
Speaker 1: OF what. I use it is a there is something
1:48:02
Speaker 1: taking place this coming week, in history a milestone. That
1:48:06
Speaker 1: happened in, this Case it's december, thirty first nineteen, fifty
1:48:09
Speaker 1: four is where we're going back in our podcast. Time
1:48:13
Speaker 1: machine so that is and it is something that came to,
1:48:18
Speaker 1: an End and i'm going to use it to tell
1:48:23
Speaker 1: the story of what, we are which is a very
1:48:25
Speaker 1: reluctant nation. Of immigrants let. Me explain december, thirty first nineteen,
1:48:32
Speaker 1: Fifty Four ellis island quietly closed its doors to become simply.
1:48:37
Speaker 1: A museum there was, no ceremony there was, no speech
1:48:40
Speaker 1: there was no national moment, of reflection which is actually
1:48:43
Speaker 1: fitting because at, The Time ellis island didn't Close because
1:48:46
Speaker 1: america stopped being a nation. Of immigrants it closed because
1:48:49
Speaker 1: the immigration system That Built ellis island no. Longer existed
1:48:53
Speaker 1: i'm going to get, to that and that quiet ending
1:48:56
Speaker 1: gives us a perfect entry point into a much, bigger
1:48:58
Speaker 1: question and it's one we have been arguing about since
1:49:01
Speaker 1: the founding of. This Country is america a nation? Of
1:49:05
Speaker 1: immigrants and if, we are which factually, we are have
1:49:10
Speaker 1: we always been actually a reluctant nation, of immigrants which
1:49:15
Speaker 1: is The case i'm going to make with this. Time
1:49:17
Speaker 1: machine so, it, answered honestly we do need to strip
1:49:19
Speaker 1: away the nostalgia and we need to look at what
1:49:21
Speaker 1: the twentieth century actually did when it came to immigration
1:49:25
Speaker 1: Into The. United, states first we're going to talk about
1:49:27
Speaker 1: the myth and the Reality. Of alisheim at the turn
1:49:29
Speaker 1: of the, twentieth century immigration In The united states, was
1:49:32
Speaker 1: massive it, was chaotic and it was. Largely Unrestricted allis
1:49:36
Speaker 1: island processed millions, of people sometimes as many as twelve
1:49:41
Speaker 1: thousand people, a day and most were arriving by Steamship.
1:49:45
Speaker 1: From europe that was the primary way we got immigrants into,
1:49:48
Speaker 1: this country and it is also the version of immigration
1:49:52
Speaker 1: That we americans love. To romanticize but, even that there
1:49:58
Speaker 1: was anxiety built into the immigration system at. That time
1:50:02
Speaker 1: newspapers in, that time and if you Go To elis
1:50:05
Speaker 1: island as, a museum you will. See this as this,
1:50:08
Speaker 1: was happening we talk about it As Amazing, elis island
1:50:11
Speaker 1: and in fact it's a badge of honor if you
1:50:14
Speaker 1: had a relative Come Through. Ellis, Island right but at,
1:50:18
Speaker 1: the time this is what newspapers were. Warning about, crime,
1:50:21
Speaker 1: disease anarchists, job competition. Cultural change in, Other words america
1:50:29
Speaker 1: has never experienced an immigration surge without fear attached. To
1:50:33
Speaker 1: it and this has been true arguably since the, very
1:50:35
Speaker 1: beginning but certainly it was also all throughout the, twentieth
1:50:39
Speaker 1: century and by the, nineteen twenties this fear got turned
1:50:42
Speaker 1: into policy that brings us to the, quota system which
1:50:47
Speaker 1: Actually governed america's immigration system for basically half of the.
1:50:52
Speaker 1: Twentieth century the modern immigration debate really begins with this
1:50:55
Speaker 1: decision to restrict entrees. Via Quota The immigration act of nineteen,
1:51:00
Speaker 1: twenty four which was also known As The Johnson, reid
1:51:03
Speaker 1: act created what was a national origins quota system that
1:51:06
Speaker 1: fundamentally reshaped who could come To The. United states and
1:51:10
Speaker 1: this decision sort of embedded a form of racism that
1:51:14
Speaker 1: people now look back on nostalgically, and, think Well if
1:51:16
Speaker 1: america was, for it it couldn't have. Been Racist but
1:51:20
Speaker 1: i'll get. To that but here's What This immigration. Act
1:51:22
Speaker 1: did one it severely limited immigration from Southern And. Eastern
1:51:26
Speaker 1: europe as Somebody whose jewish relatives Came From, eastern europe
1:51:31
Speaker 1: let me just say that a Lot of jews saw
1:51:34
Speaker 1: that at the time as Essentially preventing jews from coming
1:51:38
Speaker 1: Into The. United states but if you just made it
1:51:41
Speaker 1: about a certain Region, of europe it didn't look like
1:51:44
Speaker 1: some sort of restriction based. On religion the nineteen twenty
1:51:50
Speaker 1: four law favored northern And, western europe and it virtually
1:51:53
Speaker 1: excluded immigrants coming In from Asia. And africa well what did?
1:51:58
Speaker 1: It do immigration dropped by more than, Eighty percent and
1:52:03
Speaker 1: this is actually what Essentially Ended, ellis island even though
1:52:06
Speaker 1: thirty years later they finally shut. Their doors because after nineteen,
1:52:10
Speaker 1: twenty four most immigrants had to be approved. Before arriving
1:52:14
Speaker 1: it used to be you got processed once you. Got
1:52:16
Speaker 1: here then in the after nineteen, twenty four you had
1:52:20
Speaker 1: to get approval before you. Could come ship based mass
1:52:24
Speaker 1: migration completely collapsed because of this change, in Law And
1:52:27
Speaker 1: ellis island never really operated again as a true gateway
1:52:31
Speaker 1: after nineteen, Twenty four and, in fact by The Time
1:52:34
Speaker 1: ellis Island closes december, thirty first nineteen, fifty four it's
1:52:37
Speaker 1: no longer a symbol. Of openness it's simply a relic
1:52:40
Speaker 1: of A system america had already, had abandoned which brings
1:52:43
Speaker 1: us to the next turning point in the immigration debate
1:52:46
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five and what lawmakers thought they were doing
1:52:50
Speaker 1: versus what ended. Up happening and this arguably is the
1:52:53
Speaker 1: most consequential legislation that was enacted and arguably still not.
1:53:00
Speaker 1: Fixed Sense the Immigration And nationality act of nineteen sixty
1:53:04
Speaker 1: five is easily one of the most misunderstood Laws in
1:53:07
Speaker 1: american history because it did not come due to a
1:53:11
Speaker 1: sudden embrace of. Mass immigration it actually came out of
1:53:17
Speaker 1: a civil, rights argument and it Was A cold war
1:53:19
Speaker 1: inspired a civil. Rights, ARGUMENT yeah i have one of
1:53:22
Speaker 1: the one of my thesis in sort of why we
1:53:28
Speaker 1: had less polarization During The, Cold war and, in fact
1:53:32
Speaker 1: one of my major THESIS is i don't think we
1:53:34
Speaker 1: Get The Civil RIGHTS act a sixty five Without The.
1:53:37
Speaker 1: Cold war that our fight With, the soviets who we
1:53:40
Speaker 1: are having a propaganda war about democracy. And freedom how
1:53:44
Speaker 1: could we be glamorizing democracy without giving freedom To every
1:53:51
Speaker 1: american that lived in. This country so there Was The
1:53:55
Speaker 1: cold war politics sort of HOW bring i think both
1:53:58
Speaker 1: sides together? On THIS and i wonder Without The cold
1:54:01
Speaker 1: war do we Get The Civil. Rights sact i'll save
1:54:04
Speaker 1: that for another. What if but by the, early sixties
1:54:08
Speaker 1: the national origins quota system was really embarrassing For The
1:54:12
Speaker 1: united states internationally because it was. Explicitly discriminatory we picked
1:54:17
Speaker 1: and chose what ethnic origins we wanted in which ones.
1:54:21
Speaker 1: We didn't we contradicted what was the civil rights movement
1:54:24
Speaker 1: at home at, that moment and WE undermined us. Credibility
1:54:28
Speaker 1: abroad and, in fact it was standing At the Statue
1:54:31
Speaker 1: of liberty That Then PRESIDENT. Lyndon b johnson said the
1:54:35
Speaker 1: system violated quote the basic Principle of. American democracy so
1:54:40
Speaker 1: he was making a moral case. On immigration but here's
1:54:43
Speaker 1: the part. We forgot the law was sold To the
1:54:46
Speaker 1: american public as being very modest and. Non transformational this
1:54:50
Speaker 1: wasn't going to have a. Huge impact supporters went out
1:54:53
Speaker 1: of their way to reassure skeptics in. That moment they argued,
1:54:56
Speaker 1: the following this would not dramatically, Increase immigration this would
1:55:00
Speaker 1: not change the ethnic composition of, the country and this was,
1:55:03
Speaker 1: about fairness. Not volume, in Fact Then Senator ted kennedy
1:55:07
Speaker 1: famously said the bill would not quote flood our cities
1:55:10
Speaker 1: or quote upset the ethnic mix of. Our society and,
1:55:13
Speaker 1: many critics including labor unions weren't focused on race. At
1:55:16
Speaker 1: all they worried about, job competition, wage pressure and whether
1:55:20
Speaker 1: the country could absorb. More people those concerns. Were minimized
1:55:24
Speaker 1: they were sort of glossed over and attributed frankly, to
1:55:30
Speaker 1: oh you're, being racist you're. Being xenophobic you're not. Seeing
1:55:32
Speaker 1: it so Here's what. Congress built the structure of the
1:55:37
Speaker 1: law mattered more than the speeches that. Were given so
1:55:40
Speaker 1: the law abolished the national. Origins quotas it prioritized, family
1:55:45
Speaker 1: reunification which was a huge aspect. To this it created
1:55:51
Speaker 1: limited employment, based visas so no one fully modeled what
1:55:55
Speaker 1: all of that would mean, over time and once one
1:55:58
Speaker 1: family member entered, legal life then others. Could follow it
1:56:02
Speaker 1: was called, chain migration and it was never the intent of,
1:56:05
Speaker 1: the law but it ended up being. A mechanism the
1:56:09
Speaker 1: result wasn't, immediate chaos but it was steady and. Sustained
1:56:12
Speaker 1: growth and the shift and where immigrants came from, also
1:56:15
Speaker 1: changed which brings us to the next, unresolved chapter and
1:56:19
Speaker 1: that was the nineteen eighties amnesty enforcement in the deal that.
1:56:22
Speaker 1: Didn't hold so by the, late seventies growing Up, in
1:56:27
Speaker 1: miami this was my sort of first memory of, policy
1:56:30
Speaker 1: debates and it was All Over central American and, cuban
1:56:34
Speaker 1: IMMIGRANTS so i had a front row seat. To this
1:56:38
Speaker 1: so by the late seventies and, early eighties a reality
1:56:40
Speaker 1: had become impossible. To ignore millions of people were already
1:56:43
Speaker 1: living and working In The united, states illegally and the
1:56:45
Speaker 1: system had no. Credible answer There wasn't this wasn't. New
1:56:49
Speaker 1: migration it was simply. Accumulated migration and agriculture relied on
1:56:53
Speaker 1: it and there was no enforcement. Against it construction relied on,
1:56:57
Speaker 1: it again no enforcement. Against it restaurants relied, on, it
1:57:00
Speaker 1: again no enforcement.
1:57:01
Speaker 2: Against it and both parties.
1:57:02
Speaker 1: Knew it and it leads To The immigration Reform And
1:57:05
Speaker 1: control act Signed By ronald reagan in nineteen. Eighty Six
1:57:09
Speaker 1: The mizzoli act some people know it As, the deal
1:57:13
Speaker 1: had three, Parts legalization so basically it gave amnesty to
1:57:16
Speaker 1: about three million. Undocumented immigrants they got legal. Status automatically
1:57:22
Speaker 1: number two was. Employer sanctions employers were supposed to be
1:57:25
Speaker 1: punished for hiring. Undocumented workers nineteen. Eighty, six yeah we
1:57:29
Speaker 1: can't even get anybody to use e, ferify today and
1:57:32
Speaker 1: we didn't even have that system in place in nineteen,
1:57:34
Speaker 1: eighty six, and then of course there was the promise
1:57:36
Speaker 1: of more. Border enforcement this was a promise that this
1:57:40
Speaker 1: would be a one. Time resent reagan even framed it,
1:57:42
Speaker 1: pretty optimistically consistent with. His worldview it was a. Humane
1:57:46
Speaker 1: solution so here's why. It failed and this is, the
1:57:50
Speaker 1: history the lesson history keeps teaching us on. This issue the,
1:57:54
Speaker 1: legalization worked enforcement did not employer sanctions were very, weakly
1:57:58
Speaker 1: enforced if. At all demand for labor never, did change
1:58:02
Speaker 1: and the legal pathways never, did expand so.
1:58:05
Speaker 2: Then all the.
1:58:05
Speaker 1: Incentives remained chain migration essentially was the best, way Through
1:58:11
Speaker 1: and congress. Moved on they left the system permanently unfinished
1:58:16
Speaker 1: because our politics were too complicated on this and there
1:58:19
Speaker 1: was no clean left. Right argument there were coalitions in
1:58:22
Speaker 1: different ways that sort.
1:58:24
Speaker 2: Of really.
1:58:27
Speaker 1: Made this impossible for one party to be the party
1:58:29
Speaker 1: in one way or. THE other, i Mean In south
1:58:31
Speaker 1: florida You had republicans standing up for migrants and undocumented
1:58:36
Speaker 1: immigrants in ways that you.
1:58:37
Speaker 2: Didn't have in other parts in.
1:58:38
Speaker 1: The country but then In the midwest you had. Conservative
1:58:41
Speaker 1: farmers you needed. Labor anyway, you know many, of you
1:58:43
Speaker 1: if you're listening to, this podcast you know. That story
1:58:47
Speaker 1: but after, eighty six arguably this is where our modern
1:58:50
Speaker 1: immigration politics. Are born legalization without, durbal enforcement enforcement without,
1:58:55
Speaker 1: legal reform and a growing population living. In limbo this
1:59:00
Speaker 1: is where the current era fits Into all this, historical
1:59:03
Speaker 1: contest of, course matters which IS why i wanted to lay.
1:59:06
Speaker 1: THIS out i thought this would be a good pretext
1:59:08
Speaker 1: to sort, of explain, you know constantly the number one
1:59:12
Speaker 1: Question that i'm asking is how did we? Get here
1:59:14
Speaker 1: it's usually a, follow up whether it's on campaign, finance
1:59:17
Speaker 1: reform it could be a follow up, on democracy follow
1:59:19
Speaker 1: up on, for policy follow up on, character politics follow
1:59:22
Speaker 1: up on, the media but question remains, the same how
1:59:25
Speaker 1: did we? Get, here well, on immigration this is my
1:59:28
Speaker 1: best way of trying to explain how did we? GET
1:59:30
Speaker 1: here i don't Know if i've got a. Way OUT if,
1:59:33
Speaker 1: i Did maybe i'd be running. For office but this
1:59:37
Speaker 1: is it's important to understand the context Because the trump
1:59:39
Speaker 1: administration didn't invent, immigration restriction but what they did do
1:59:45
Speaker 1: is rejected the optimism of the nineteen sixty, five reforms
1:59:48
Speaker 1: rejected the compromise language of the nineteen eighty, six reforms
1:59:52
Speaker 1: and lean heavily, into enforcement, de terrence. And symbolism so
1:59:58
Speaker 1: what was new wasn't. Really restriction it. Was rhetoric it was,
2:00:02
Speaker 1: the visibility the willingness to make immigration the central cultural. Dividing,
2:00:06
Speaker 1: line historically this isn't. A rupture it's actually simply a.
2:00:10
Speaker 1: Pendulum swing it's a return to An older. American instinct
2:00:14
Speaker 1: but it's one of the uglier Chapters. Of america it's
2:00:17
Speaker 1: not the. Ugliest chapter we know what that, one is
2:00:20
Speaker 1: but it's one of the, uglier ones and we're still
2:00:23
Speaker 1: dealing with the fallout, from it which leads me to ask,
2:00:27
Speaker 1: this question are we really a nation? Of immigrants so
2:00:30
Speaker 1: let's say answer the question as honestly as. We, can yes.
2:00:33
Speaker 1: We are we are a nation, of Immigrants and america
2:00:35
Speaker 1: is still more of an idea than it is. An
2:00:37
Speaker 1: ethnicity but.
2:00:38
Speaker 2: History suggests something a bit.
2:00:40
Speaker 1: More precise we are a nation, of immigrants but we're
2:00:43
Speaker 1: a reluctant nation. Of immigrants we celebrate immigration in retrospect
2:00:48
Speaker 1: once the simulation happens and once the, fear fades but
2:00:52
Speaker 1: in real time, anxiety dominates, restriction follows and the half.
2:00:56
Speaker 1: Finished Reforms Pilot ellis island closed because mass immigration and
2:01:03
Speaker 1: the quota. System rose because. Fear prevailed the nineteen sixty
2:01:08
Speaker 1: five law reopened the. Door cautiously nineteen eighty six tried
2:01:13
Speaker 1: to reset the, system imperfectly and today we're still arguing
2:01:18
Speaker 1: over the consequences. Of Both So ellis island didn't close
2:01:21
Speaker 1: Because the american. Dream ended it closed because the, system
2:01:24
Speaker 1: changed and the tension between openness and control never. Went
2:01:28
Speaker 1: away that tension, isn't new and it goes back TO
2:01:31
Speaker 1: what i think is the, founding tension and that divides
2:01:35
Speaker 1: so much of, our politics which is a basic argument
2:01:40
Speaker 1: of who gets to Be? An AMERICAN and i actually
2:01:45
Speaker 1: think it should continue to be the single most important
2:01:49
Speaker 1: debate question That a civics teacher should want to be
2:01:54
Speaker 1: asked to everybody that runs, for office and, every debate
2:01:57
Speaker 1: every interview of a new CANDIDATE for aufas should always include, that,
2:02:02
Speaker 1: question right who gets to Be? An american.
2:02:10
Speaker 2: Tell me how you.
2:02:10
Speaker 1: Answer that you answer that question, for Me and i'll
2:02:13
Speaker 1: tell you what your political, philosophy is because that's the
2:02:21
Speaker 1: debate we continue, to have and ultimately it's the debate
2:02:25
Speaker 1: that's at the heart of the of this division and
2:02:29
Speaker 1: what has been essentially a never ending debate about who
2:02:35
Speaker 1: gets to Be, an american who gets to Come, to
2:02:37
Speaker 1: america who gets to Work, in america and who gets
2:02:40
Speaker 1: to be who gets the Privileges of? American citizenship, all
2:02:52
Speaker 1: right so, with that let me sneak in a. Few
2:02:54
Speaker 1: questions we'll do a little last check. Coming up I'm
2:02:57
Speaker 1: gonna i'm gonna give an empty the, mail bag as,
2:03:01
Speaker 1: they say but let me do a, few Now, Ask,
2:03:04
Speaker 1: Chuck haye Chuck And happy holidays wanted a flag a
2:03:10
Speaker 1: fun but serious proposal from former Podcast Guest Congressman Chris,
2:03:14
Speaker 1: deluzio Pennsylvania The Hot Dog act Honest hot dog is
2:03:18
Speaker 1: an acronym in this case honest oversight of ticketed dining
2:03:22
Speaker 1: and on, site grub which calls ON the ftc to
2:03:25
Speaker 1: investigate concession price gouging at publicly. Funded stadiums has anyone
2:03:30
Speaker 1: who's recently been to a major sporting event can attest
2:03:33
Speaker 1: food prices are out? Of control giving your intersection of sports,
2:03:36
Speaker 1: And politics i'd love to hear your take. ON this ps,
2:03:38
Speaker 1: totally random but do you have a favorite? Political comedy
2:03:41
Speaker 1: dave nineteen ninety three is high on. My List. Chris pittsburgh,
2:03:45
Speaker 1: you know that's actually a good it's a good top
2:03:49
Speaker 1: five LIST that i ought to come. Up with i'll
2:03:51
Speaker 1: tell you the FIRST movie i think of when you
2:03:53
Speaker 1: asked me about a good political Comedy Is. Distinguished gentlemen
2:03:57
Speaker 1: It's The eddie murphy One. On congress it was written in.
2:04:00
Speaker 1: EARLY nineties i remember in THE moment i felt the
2:04:03
Speaker 1: same way about that MOVIE that i Felt about idiocracy
2:04:06
Speaker 1: the FIRST time i saw it when it came Out. In.
2:04:07
Speaker 1: No six let's just say an age. AS well I
2:04:11
Speaker 1: Think distinguished gentleman does as good of a job of
2:04:13
Speaker 1: Explaining how congress, actually works or, excuse Me how, washington
2:04:17
Speaker 1: works since it's a CLASS that i teach for my
2:04:19
Speaker 1: FRIENDS at usc than any. Any other dave's a, Good
2:04:23
Speaker 1: one don't get, Me wrong dave's in that my, top
2:04:25
Speaker 1: Five But distinguished GENTLEMEN probably i go a little bit
2:04:29
Speaker 1: higher because it was written by ex, congressional staffers so
2:04:33
Speaker 1: there was there was little little grace notes of detail
2:04:39
Speaker 1: that were just Fantastic that dave. Didn't have, dave romanticized,
2:04:44
Speaker 1: You know dave is sort Of the west wingification of it,
2:04:48
Speaker 1: of things a little bit kind Of Like american president,
2:04:50
Speaker 1: You know dave feels like it should have Been An
2:04:53
Speaker 1: aaron zorcin even though. It wasn't but it's sort of
2:04:55
Speaker 1: the fantasy land versus distinguished gentleman is a little bit
2:05:00
Speaker 1: more of a reality check. On it, so ANYWAY but. I,
2:05:03
Speaker 1: DIGRESS look i think you bring up an, interesting point
2:05:08
Speaker 1: and it's one OF those i remember when the the
2:05:12
Speaker 1: sort of the snobbish political media Coop coud biden focusing on.
2:05:20
Speaker 1: Junk fees but this sort of incremental price gouging that.
2:05:26
Speaker 1: Takes place first, OF all i do think sporting events
2:05:31
Speaker 1: and music events are becoming we are pricing out the, middle,
2:05:34
Speaker 1: Class right and, IN fact i would expand That. To.
2:05:38
Speaker 1: Disney right look at how expensive two Nights at, disney
2:05:42
Speaker 1: are and. THERE isn't, i, mean basically if you're Not a,
2:05:47
Speaker 1: florida resident you and you get a little bit Of
2:05:50
Speaker 1: the florida, resident discount it's hard To afford disney more
2:05:54
Speaker 1: than sort of once, a, lifetime right once. A generation
2:05:58
Speaker 1: it is that expense, to do and it, is look,
2:06:04
Speaker 1: YOU know i. Could, MIND hey i only paid fifty
2:06:07
Speaker 1: bucks to go See The, rolling, Stones RIGHT and i
2:06:10
Speaker 1: THINK and i remember feeling price GOUTS when i was
2:06:13
Speaker 1: sitting in the four hundreds for you too at. Ninety
2:06:16
Speaker 1: bucks and then of course there's the amount of money
2:06:19
Speaker 1: my daughter spent to Go See taylor SWIFT that i
2:06:22
Speaker 1: may or may not have helped subsidize at least one
2:06:24
Speaker 1: of the concerts that you got, to see and that
2:06:27
Speaker 1: was well into the three and four hundred. Dollars range
2:06:30
Speaker 1: so some of this, is inflation there's. No doubt but,
2:06:34
Speaker 1: you know are we making sporting events and, you're, right
2:06:39
Speaker 1: right so many taxpayer dollars are being used to develop
2:06:44
Speaker 1: almost all of.
2:06:45
Speaker 2: These.
2:06:46
Speaker 1: Venues right there aren't many arenas or stadiums that don't
2:06:51
Speaker 1: have some that didn't get developed without some sort of public.
2:06:54
Speaker 1: Tax break some of it is. QUITE small, i mean
2:06:59
Speaker 1: the owner Of the dolphs mostly built everything on. His
2:07:02
Speaker 1: own but, you know it's not like he built the
2:07:04
Speaker 1: roads to the stadium that he got that that certainly had,
2:07:07
Speaker 1: some taxpayer uh taxpayer involvement. In it but all of,
2:07:12
Speaker 1: these venues all of, these arenas open, air stadiums closed
2:07:17
Speaker 1: stadiums where you, see, Concerts revivals disney, on ice, sporting,
2:07:24
Speaker 1: events concerts. Et, cetera right they're all massively going up,
2:07:33
Speaker 1: in price and there is this idea of captive audience.
2:07:37
Speaker 1: The process, you know we've we've we've we've had fits.
2:07:40
Speaker 1: And starts, you know we beat Up. Ticket master it
2:07:42
Speaker 1: feels like every once in a while when we want
2:07:44
Speaker 1: when when it looks like, everybody's, hey look we're we're
2:07:47
Speaker 1: going to protect. The consumer let's go After ticket master
2:07:49
Speaker 1: because they're kind of the, ticketing monopoly although the monopoly
2:07:52
Speaker 1: is less than it was than it, once was but
2:07:57
Speaker 1: you're getting at SOMETHING that i think that. There is,
2:08:00
Speaker 1: you know there's always a question are we going to
2:08:02
Speaker 1: hit a point where the average fan is priced out
2:08:08
Speaker 1: of being able to attend to? THESE games nfl games feel,
2:08:11
Speaker 1: that way, you know and you throw in the hassle of, it,
2:08:14
Speaker 1: all right it's not easy to get to in some
2:08:16
Speaker 1: cases that for the price, the hassle is the experience? Worth?
2:08:22
Speaker 1: It right you start factoring all that in and you
2:08:28
Speaker 1: know there's so many different velvet ropes that they want
2:08:30
Speaker 1: to sell you as well with, these experiences and then
2:08:36
Speaker 1: these teams and these even entertainers prioritize the experience for
2:08:42
Speaker 1: the super elite because they can basically profit more, on
2:08:47
Speaker 1: that creating more velvet rope moments for those that can,
2:08:50
Speaker 1: afford it because that's where you can get your, extra
2:08:53
Speaker 1: cash that's where you can get your. Extra profit not
2:08:56
Speaker 1: providing those experiences for the, middle class not even providing
2:09:01
Speaker 1: the opportunity beyond obviously financially being able to have. The opportunity.
2:09:06
Speaker 2: It, Is.
2:09:08
Speaker 1: Look i'm at the end of, The day i'm, a free.
2:09:11
Speaker 1: Free MARKETER but i think that you are a large
2:09:14
Speaker 1: customer base is better than a niche customer base that is.
2:09:19
Speaker 1: Extraordinarily wealthy you may make a good business out of
2:09:23
Speaker 1: that for a, few years but that is not a
2:09:25
Speaker 1: long term strategy. For Success disney world works because it
2:09:30
Speaker 1: seems to appeal, to all but the Minute disney world
2:09:35
Speaker 1: creates these barriers to entry that are now higher and
2:09:38
Speaker 1: higher for the, working, class well Then suddenly disney isn't.
2:09:42
Speaker 1: For all And suddenly disney RELEASES a dvd or a
2:09:45
Speaker 1: movie or a new show, on streaming and people don't
2:09:48
Speaker 1: want to give you the six dollars a, month anymore
2:09:50
Speaker 1: the ten dollars a month anymore in order to get
2:09:53
Speaker 1: access to those princess movies or get access to some
2:09:56
Speaker 1: of these fun. Animated shorts and then you suddenly lose
2:10:04
Speaker 1: pieces of your. Customer base, SO look I think i love.
2:10:09
Speaker 1: The idea you know that you focus on publicly. FUNDED
2:10:13
Speaker 1: stadiums i would love find me the stadium or arena
2:10:17
Speaker 1: that didn't have some public. Funding help and again to
2:10:21
Speaker 1: me building roads and freeways that explicitly get to your
2:10:28
Speaker 1: stadium Like The Joe. Robbie stadium yes he did the stadium,
2:10:32
Speaker 1: part himself but not all of the government essentially infrastructure
2:10:37
Speaker 1: that was needed to support fifty to eighty thousand people
2:10:41
Speaker 1: going in and out of that place ten or fifteen times.
2:10:43
Speaker 1: A year so, in fairness there isn't. Anything there and,
2:10:50
Speaker 1: you know wouldn't it be interesting if you essentially created
2:10:56
Speaker 1: two pricing structures where those that paid taxes in that
2:11:03
Speaker 1: area got, a discount the Same way disney Does give
2:11:07
Speaker 1: florida residents. A discount you Get a florida. RESIDENT discount
2:11:11
Speaker 1: i assume there's One. IN california i don't know about.
2:11:13
Speaker 1: THAT one i know About the florida ONE because i
2:11:15
Speaker 1: LIVE the.
2:11:16
Speaker 2: I have lived.
2:11:17
Speaker 1: Planing around there's, certain months it used to be certain
2:11:21
Speaker 1: months a year That the florida discount would. Kick in,
2:11:24
Speaker 1: you know IT'S basically i think it would be the
2:11:27
Speaker 1: times that others were traveling less and They wanted, you
2:11:31
Speaker 1: know it used to Be that, disney saw just get
2:11:35
Speaker 1: people in your park and then you can sell them,
2:11:37
Speaker 1: other stuff even if you get them in the park.
2:11:39
Speaker 1: For free and it used to be the mindset of, stadium,
2:11:43
Speaker 1: owners right gets you into, the park, you know buy
2:11:45
Speaker 1: a ten. Dollars coke, you know so what if you
2:11:47
Speaker 1: got the ticket? For free AT least i got some
2:11:49
Speaker 1: money out. Of you but it's an. INTERESTING thought i
2:11:53
Speaker 1: will just tell. You this this is the type of
2:11:55
Speaker 1: populist politics that cuts across. Partisan lines right when you're
2:11:59
Speaker 1: sort of getting at something that annoys the liberal and,
2:12:02
Speaker 1: the conservative, you know, you're, like man what's this? Price
2:12:05
Speaker 1: gouging didn't my taxpayers contribute taxpayer money contribute? To this
2:12:09
Speaker 1: WHY am i now paying an extra surcharge on top
2:12:12
Speaker 1: of the tax dollars that already went? To this? You
2:12:14
Speaker 1: KNOW so i think IT'S a i think it's A
2:12:18
Speaker 1: good it's like the stock trading ban at it's good.
2:12:22
Speaker 1: POPULOUS politics i don't know if this is, good LAW
2:12:26
Speaker 1: but i do know it's. Good politics, all right let
2:12:28
Speaker 1: me take one. More question we'll do a, little, football
2:12:30
Speaker 1: BECAUSE like, I said i'm going to do a whole
2:12:32
Speaker 1: monster mail bag HERE that i promise this comes From.
2:12:36
Speaker 1: Daniel a, He, Says, hey chuck a few weeks ago
2:12:38
Speaker 1: you mentioned that both parties are likely to see new congressional.
2:12:40
Speaker 1: Leadership soon how much do you think the twenty twenty
2:12:42
Speaker 1: six midterms will shape? Those races, for Instance if democrats
2:12:45
Speaker 1: gained lots, of seats could new moderates push for centrist
2:12:48
Speaker 1: LEADERSHIP while gip losses leave only hard right members to
2:12:50
Speaker 1: elevate a more. Extreme leader or are there are other
2:12:52
Speaker 1: dynamics at play beyond. The, MATH look i think the
2:12:55
Speaker 1: math is going to. Mean something.
2:12:58
Speaker 2: You know Take Take.
2:12:59
Speaker 1: Chuck ship though he's unpopular In the, democratic base there's
2:13:03
Speaker 1: no doubt. About it he has got many elected senators
2:13:07
Speaker 1: who don't have the confidence in. His leadership But if
2:13:12
Speaker 1: democrats Gain, the senate are they really going to get rid?
2:13:15
Speaker 1: Of them they're not going to get rid. Of them
2:13:17
Speaker 1: it's just not the way, senators behave even if there's
2:13:19
Speaker 1: a slew of. New senators so the, point being his results, matter, Here,
2:13:25
Speaker 1: right Look Does mike johnson state speaker if they Hold? The,
2:13:28
Speaker 1: house yes, YOU know, i mean it's, just yes that's how,
2:13:32
Speaker 1: it works you know, It is and is he gone
2:13:37
Speaker 1: and not a leader at all if they lose control Of. The,
2:13:39
Speaker 1: house yes that's going to be the. Case too by,
2:13:42
Speaker 1: THE way i Think both Schumer, and Jeffries if democrats
2:13:45
Speaker 1: don't Win the House, and senate they're. Both gone the
2:13:48
Speaker 1: question is whether any of them can SURVIVE what i
2:13:52
Speaker 1: think is going to, be knockdown drag out intra party
2:13:57
Speaker 1: fights in twenty eight on the direction of. Both parties
2:14:00
Speaker 1: you know? Which direction Is The democratic party going? To
2:14:03
Speaker 1: go in a more democratic socialist direction or in a
2:14:06
Speaker 1: more sort of business. Friendly? Direction right that is ultimately
2:14:10
Speaker 1: the larger argument that that party's going, To HAVE and
2:14:14
Speaker 1: i think the larger Argument the republicans are going to
2:14:16
Speaker 1: have is are they going to be a sort of
2:14:21
Speaker 1: more of a populist nationalist party or are they going
2:14:26
Speaker 1: to be a more, free market business. Friendly party and
2:14:31
Speaker 1: that same fight in a different different ways is going
2:14:34
Speaker 1: to and it's going to be interesting because you have
2:14:35
Speaker 1: some people participating both in the center left camp and
2:14:40
Speaker 1: the center right camp hoping that at least one of
2:14:43
Speaker 1: them wins their argument in. Their primaries it's possible, neither,
2:14:47
Speaker 1: does right and we Get jd VANCE and, aoc right
2:14:49
Speaker 1: which would be, you know it's SORT of. I joke,
2:14:52
Speaker 1: you know if We Got ken Paxon And jasmine Crockett,
2:14:55
Speaker 1: in texas it would be essentially a preview of what
2:14:57
Speaker 1: would happen if both parties nominated from their bases the
2:15:01
Speaker 1: next two. Presidential NOMINEES so i do think the results
2:15:05
Speaker 1: in twenty six will have a. Huge impact the safest
2:15:09
Speaker 1: of the four Leaders is Thune because thune Isn't a,
2:15:13
Speaker 1: trump acolyte but he is seems to Have managed trump,
2:15:18
Speaker 1: okay enough, you know, we'll see but, you KNOW and
2:15:26
Speaker 1: i don't think losses will be attributed. TO him i
2:15:30
Speaker 1: think the losses will be Attributed, to trump which weirdly Could. Strengthen,
2:15:34
Speaker 1: thune so of, THE four I think thune is the least,
2:15:37
Speaker 1: in danger but all of the other three very much
2:15:41
Speaker 1: their futures rely on the results of the of the
2:15:45
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six.
2:15:46
Speaker 3: Mid Terms, All right i'm gonna stop THERE because i
2:15:57
Speaker 3: think for many of you this Will be i'm gonna
2:15:59
Speaker 3: use this instead of a little bit of a football.
2:16:03
Speaker 1: IN review a. Little bit we had our, single best
2:16:08
Speaker 1: most interesting College football bowl day that you, could have
2:16:11
Speaker 1: and it really was just not, that. INTERESTING right, I
2:16:15
Speaker 1: mean i ENJOYED The Byu georgia. TECH game i was
2:16:19
Speaker 1: glad to see it. Was competitive it does feel as
2:16:22
Speaker 1: If The Pop tarts bowl is now the only non
2:16:24
Speaker 1: major bowl that anybody seems to have, heard of which is. Just.
2:16:29
Speaker 1: Crazy right, you know back in, my Day The, Gator Bowl,
2:16:32
Speaker 1: Liberty Bowl, peach bowl which were not. Major bowls then
2:16:34
Speaker 1: none of Them Were. Citrus bowl, you know they had
2:16:38
Speaker 1: their own cachets. About it, you Know The sun bowl
2:16:40
Speaker 1: had a, real History The liberty bowl had a. Real
2:16:42
Speaker 1: history i've been To A, liberty bowl for what. It's
2:16:44
Speaker 1: worth i've been To A peach bowl back in the
2:16:46
Speaker 1: day when It was miami's first bowl game in, fifteen
2:16:48
Speaker 1: years and you still have, the. Phenomenon, right Look The
2:16:53
Speaker 1: Clemson penn state game was just atrocious. To watch the
2:16:56
Speaker 1: only game worse to watch was was the Mind Of
2:17:01
Speaker 1: Ohio president. State, game literally if you only if you
2:17:04
Speaker 1: were gambling, on it were you watching. That GAME so
2:17:07
Speaker 1: i may have given a hint a way OF how
2:17:09
Speaker 1: i was watching, that GAME but i always made sure
2:17:11
Speaker 1: it was in my, four box EVEN the. Nfl, offerings,
2:17:14
Speaker 1: right boy this was Just a christmas dud FOR. The nfl,
2:17:19
Speaker 1: it all all of those games lacked a little. Something,
2:17:24
Speaker 1: right obviously relevance is a big part, of it and
2:17:26
Speaker 1: there Was No. Patrick mahomes right, in theory it was
2:17:29
Speaker 1: supposed to Be the Cowboys and commanders fighting it out
2:17:32
Speaker 1: for a playoff spot or, the division just like it
2:17:35
Speaker 1: seemed like that could be at the beginning of. The
2:17:36
Speaker 1: season so it was a good day FOR. The NBA
2:17:41
Speaker 1: as i, told you these were games, worth WATCHING and
2:17:44
Speaker 1: i have to Say the. Knicks delivered that was a
2:17:46
Speaker 1: heck of. A Game, Knicks calves wemby DELIVERED as i
2:17:50
Speaker 1: Promised you. Wemby would, and man you gotta Love Me Sam.
2:17:53
Speaker 1: Anthony edwards, you know he's the he to me is
2:17:56
Speaker 1: the forgotten. Rising star he's like the guy that sort
2:17:58
Speaker 1: of everybody wants to. Talk About and Yannis, and jokic
2:18:01
Speaker 1: and then there's old ant That, he edwards who's kind
2:18:03
Speaker 1: of an Old school he's just a, You Know Lebron
2:18:08
Speaker 1: kobe jordan like player who, you know can do a
2:18:12
Speaker 1: little bit. Of everything wants to be that kind. Of
2:18:14
Speaker 1: player and We, forget hey don't forget. Ant man i'm
2:18:19
Speaker 1: a huge. ANT man i. Enjoy. IT man i enjoy
2:18:21
Speaker 1: watching him play basketball because it kind of feels like
2:18:24
Speaker 1: a throwback to THE game i grew up with in
2:18:26
Speaker 1: the eighties. And nineties, you know there's a there's this
2:18:29
Speaker 1: sort of a style that he plays WITH that. I
2:18:30
Speaker 1: enjoy BUT the, nba delivered and you got to give
2:18:33
Speaker 1: it to, them. Karma RIGHT the nfl tried to Steal It,
2:18:38
Speaker 1: it's christmas and it really just. Fell flat and now
2:18:43
Speaker 1: you have so many opt outs by, THE way, i mean,
2:18:47
Speaker 1: you know end up dealing with opt outs in, bowl
2:18:48
Speaker 1: games and you're dealing with, you know teams that. Are
2:18:51
Speaker 1: deciding are we using this to try to see which
2:18:53
Speaker 1: players we want? To keep, you know and we're seeing the.
2:18:56
Speaker 1: Same thing and this one was this is a warning
2:18:58
Speaker 1: the college football if you choose to go to twenty,
2:19:01
Speaker 1: four teams because you'll get the last week or two of,
2:19:04
Speaker 1: the season you may get games that, are meaningless more
2:19:07
Speaker 1: games that. Are meaningless look at all the meaningless games
2:19:09
Speaker 1: now IN, the nfl like next Week. The packers they
2:19:13
Speaker 1: don't even get me started In the packers situation at. The,
2:19:15
Speaker 1: MOMENT look i obviously have skin in the game As a.
2:19:20
Speaker 1: PACKER fan.
2:19:24
Speaker 2: I the coach.
2:19:26
Speaker 1: Frustrates me, you guys if you've learned anything from Me
2:19:30
Speaker 1: is i'm obsessed with, play CALLERS and i hold play
2:19:34
Speaker 1: callers more responsible than anybody else when it comes to
2:19:38
Speaker 1: my two favorite. Football Teams the universe remind, me Football
2:19:41
Speaker 1: the universy, remind me And The Green. Bay packers and
2:19:44
Speaker 1: here's what, frustrates, Me right, i've gone, you know soup
2:19:48
Speaker 1: the nuts on my frustrations With The miami hurricane Play
2:19:51
Speaker 1: Caller shannon dawson and how he does, not call does
2:19:55
Speaker 1: not game plan for the team we're playing until the.
2:19:58
Speaker 1: Second half it. Drives me, it's terrible and it Has
2:20:02
Speaker 1: put miami in the situation of almost not making. THE
2:20:05
Speaker 1: playoffs i really, believe that but it almost cost US
2:20:09
Speaker 1: the A and. M game and it better he better
2:20:12
Speaker 1: actually game plan because If The ohio state team shows
2:20:16
Speaker 1: up that showed Up, AGAINST indiana mimi could beat that
2:20:19
Speaker 1: team if they actually gain plan to face that team
2:20:23
Speaker 1: and don't wait until the second half to start play
2:20:26
Speaker 1: calling against the actual defense, you're facing not just simply
2:20:29
Speaker 1: getting your offense offensive issues worked out to see what's
2:20:34
Speaker 1: working and. What. Isn't well my complaint about lafleor Is
2:20:39
Speaker 1: and this is something me and my packer buddies we've
2:20:41
Speaker 1: been talking about a lot in our. Text chain why
2:20:45
Speaker 1: is It that lafloor looks like he is more dynamic
2:20:47
Speaker 1: of a play Caller when willis is at quarterback Than
2:20:49
Speaker 1: When jordan love is. At quarterback and, You Know jordan, love,
2:20:54
Speaker 1: games look, He wins he's got a, good record and
2:20:57
Speaker 1: you can't, you know it is never Flashy. With love
2:21:00
Speaker 1: and you know it's Not Like favar rogers both were a.
2:21:03
Speaker 1: Bit more, You know love is just very careful by.
2:21:07
Speaker 1: The way that's. Pretty responsible he runs the. Offense well
2:21:10
Speaker 1: he doesn't improvise. As MUCH and i think that's the
2:21:14
Speaker 1: jenesiqua that's sometimes missing from, you Know From. Jordan love apologists,
2:21:19
Speaker 1: like myself because there isn't like these, you know you
2:21:24
Speaker 1: know he does he is pretty good at sort of
2:21:27
Speaker 1: when he moves around, the pocket but for, whatever reason
2:21:32
Speaker 1: he doesn't like to run. As Much, and willis you
2:21:36
Speaker 1: know what you see with the packers is that there,
2:21:38
Speaker 1: To Me malik willis the last two weeks has looked
2:21:42
Speaker 1: like a better Version Of, jalen hurts has looked like
2:21:46
Speaker 1: a a Version Of lamar jackson that has succeeded in
2:21:52
Speaker 1: the past right where he is comfortable run behaving like
2:21:57
Speaker 1: a running back. At, times right and he will both,
2:22:00
Speaker 1: you Know Both jalen Hurts. And lamar you know they
2:22:03
Speaker 1: both have learned not to take as. Many hits but,
2:22:05
Speaker 1: early on, you know they were running backs who could throw.
2:22:08
Speaker 1: The BALL and I Think Malik wilson willis was and
2:22:12
Speaker 1: that this is why it took him a while. TO
2:22:14
Speaker 1: develop i Think from liberty and et cetera said he
2:22:16
Speaker 1: was really a running back who could throw the ball
2:22:19
Speaker 1: and who could game plan and who could read. A
2:22:21
Speaker 1: defense and He's obviously and when you think About, where
2:22:25
Speaker 1: laflour yes he comes, from McVeigh but it's sort of That,
2:22:28
Speaker 1: McVeigh shanahan The larger, shanahan tree And the shanahan tree
2:22:33
Speaker 1: does like to emphasize the. Running game and it's clear
2:22:36
Speaker 1: to Me that Lafleur Wishes jordan love would. Run more
2:22:40
Speaker 1: and if, HE would i think he would game plan
2:22:42
Speaker 1: more that you would you would see more run RPOs
2:22:47
Speaker 1: that WHERE the r was picked BEFORE the p was
2:22:50
Speaker 1: picked and the quarterback did a little bit more running than.
2:22:53
Speaker 1: He does and when, you know it's sort of when
2:22:57
Speaker 1: that system is working on. All cylinders it's when you
2:23:02
Speaker 1: have a quarterback that is willing. To run and it
2:23:05
Speaker 1: does seem as if for, whatever REASON.
2:23:07
Speaker 2: And i don't.
2:23:08
Speaker 1: Know enough i'm Not a packers, beat Reporter but i'd
2:23:11
Speaker 1: love to know is? This something are We? Protecting love
2:23:14
Speaker 1: we're afraid of him? Getting hurt has there? Been issues
2:23:17
Speaker 1: is it like you know that they don't want him to?
2:23:20
Speaker 1: Take hits does he not want to? Take hits, you
2:23:23
Speaker 1: know we don't know the, full situation but for, whatever
2:23:27
Speaker 1: reason the play calling feels much more dynamic over the
2:23:32
Speaker 1: last couple of Weeks when willis has. Been there now part,
2:23:34
Speaker 1: of it maybe the stakes, are lower And so lafleur
2:23:41
Speaker 1: doesn't second guess himself as Much when willis is at
2:23:45
Speaker 1: quarterback Than when love is. At quarterback but as, a
2:23:49
Speaker 1: fan as a fan who watches, every play there's a
2:23:53
Speaker 1: noticeable difference into how he. Calls it there's a liberation
2:23:59
Speaker 1: in the play. CALLING decisions i feel Like that lafleur
2:24:03
Speaker 1: Makes when willis, is there Then when love, Is there and,
2:24:09
Speaker 1: you know look for All the packer fans that have
2:24:12
Speaker 1: enjoyed the way the offenses look these last two Weeks
2:24:15
Speaker 1: and i'm one. Of them i'm also mindful they lost
2:24:17
Speaker 1: the last. Two games first one was a freak way,
2:24:21
Speaker 1: to lose and, you Know the ravens GAME was i.
2:24:26
Speaker 1: DON'T know, i, mean Clearly Losing kenny clark in the
2:24:29
Speaker 1: Trade Of micah parsons matters. A Lot If michaeh parsons,
2:24:33
Speaker 1: gets hurt we have nobody to stuff. The run and,
2:24:36
Speaker 1: MY god, i mean it Looked Like derek henry was
2:24:38
Speaker 1: back in. High school it was just ridiculous that he
2:24:41
Speaker 1: got over one. Hundred yards and so it doesn't matter
2:24:44
Speaker 1: what you do on offense if you can't stop the
2:24:45
Speaker 1: run on. That front SO but i, go back that's
2:24:51
Speaker 1: THE question, i have and that's the question we're going,
2:24:54
Speaker 1: to see. YOU know, I mean I assume wellis plays
2:24:57
Speaker 1: again in the final week because the have no reason.
2:25:01
Speaker 1: To play i'm a little Concerned About jordan love rust
2:25:04
Speaker 1: for what. It's worth so maybe let's treat it like
2:25:07
Speaker 1: a third preseason game where maybe he plays for a
2:25:10
Speaker 1: quarter and then you Bring. In willis be, careful there
2:25:15
Speaker 1: but there's SOMETHING off i think in the Relationship Between
2:25:19
Speaker 1: jordan love and the floor that that is that is
2:25:21
Speaker 1: a that would be A theory i would PURSUE if
2:25:25
Speaker 1: i Were a packers. Beat reporter do are they not as?
2:25:27
Speaker 1: In sync why does the offense look more Dynamic when
2:25:31
Speaker 1: willis is? Running it it's just, A fact. It's true
2:25:36
Speaker 1: is it just as Simple as willis is willing to
2:25:38
Speaker 1: run and Love isn't is it different? Play calling is
2:25:42
Speaker 1: it different RPOs that? He's given is, it SIMPLY like,
2:25:47
Speaker 1: I said willis playing for. A job. I'm curious, you
2:25:52
Speaker 1: know he's not at. A contract Do the packers get anything?
2:25:58
Speaker 1: For HIM if i Were The miami Dolphin and mike,
2:26:02
Speaker 1: McDaniel Stays malik willis would be an incredible quarterback. For
2:26:05
Speaker 1: them he could be the guy that unlocks, that team
2:26:10
Speaker 1: that offense in a way that two and never could
2:26:11
Speaker 1: unlock because that was a case where they couldn't use
2:26:15
Speaker 1: they couldn't have to run. The ball but if You get,
2:26:18
Speaker 1: mike McDaniel who was remember a run game, coordinator first
2:26:22
Speaker 1: and he's essentially wants to be a run, first team
2:26:25
Speaker 1: And the dolphins have been a bit more competitive when
2:26:27
Speaker 1: they've just decided to screw it with, Tow him let's
2:26:30
Speaker 1: be a run. First, team well what If That's malik
2:26:32
Speaker 1: willis back There with Devon a chain And Oli Oli.
2:26:38
Speaker 1: Gordon jr and You Have, jalen waddell and you have
2:26:42
Speaker 1: a couple of those, good receivers and you have a
2:26:45
Speaker 1: Mean leak willis that can also run.
2:26:46
Speaker 2: The ball.
2:26:49
Speaker 1: As a, packer fan Can the packers get first? Or
2:26:52
Speaker 1: second can they at least get a second round pick? For?
2:26:54
Speaker 2: Him uh in this.
2:26:56
Speaker 1: Day and age OF, the nfl do you want to
2:26:58
Speaker 1: pay a backup court back reasonable money to keep? Them
2:27:02
Speaker 1: around given this is now two years in a row
2:27:05
Speaker 1: Where the packers have had to play meaningful games with a. Backup,
2:27:07
Speaker 1: Quarterback right these are all questions That the packers have
2:27:10
Speaker 1: to decide in the. Off season but it's interesting there,
2:27:16
Speaker 1: all right a few storylines for the upcoming quarterfinals Of
2:27:20
Speaker 1: The College. Football, playoff obviously You've Got Miami. VERSIO state
2:27:24
Speaker 1: i love that my FRIENDS at espn are promoting the.
2:27:26
Speaker 1: Historic nature the last time they met when stakes were,
2:27:30
Speaker 1: this high was when a controversial flag was thrown By
2:27:34
Speaker 1: a big twelve official by the Name Of terry porter
2:27:37
Speaker 1: calls the pass interference That Handed jim Trussell And ohio
2:27:40
Speaker 1: state their first. National Title For, ohio state it was
2:27:43
Speaker 1: their first national title in over thirty years at the
2:27:46
Speaker 1: time and essentially jump, started there brought their program back to.
2:27:50
Speaker 1: Elite status without that Victory, over miami you know that
2:27:54
Speaker 1: if they lose, that game they was, Scandal ridden tressell
2:27:57
Speaker 1: was kind of driven out that whole the backle with
2:28:00
Speaker 1: their big freshmen at. The time, you know all. Of
2:28:04
Speaker 1: That ohia state may never Be The ohio state we
2:28:07
Speaker 1: know of today without that controversial ending to, that game
2:28:12
Speaker 1: where if they just are another Hurdle in miami's drive
2:28:16
Speaker 1: to be the greatest greatest of, their GENERATION which i
2:28:20
Speaker 1: still think they probably have atod pretty good case for
2:28:25
Speaker 1: that back to back would have cemented it in a
2:28:28
Speaker 1: way that would have. Been, different right even though that
2:28:30
Speaker 1: one team is considered an, all time that entire entity
2:28:34
Speaker 1: WOULD be i think it would be An elevated there
2:28:36
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be a debate WITH the lsu twenty. Nineteen
2:28:39
Speaker 1: team but what it Did For, ohio, State Right ohio
2:28:43
Speaker 1: state hadn't won a national title in over, thirty years
2:28:46
Speaker 1: hadn't had always been a wanna be, never really, you
2:28:50
Speaker 1: know it'd always been sort of the, rung below kind
2:28:52
Speaker 1: of Like where wisconsin football had been sitting for the
2:28:55
Speaker 1: last twenty, five years, so close but can't quite make
2:28:58
Speaker 1: that next SLEEP where i Would argue oregon football is,
2:29:01
Speaker 1: at right which, is boy they seem to be with the,
2:29:04
Speaker 1: big boys but they when are they ever going to?
2:29:06
Speaker 1: Break through are they ever going to actually win? A
2:29:08
Speaker 1: title can they ever actually? Break through.
2:29:13
Speaker 2: And so there's some fun.
2:29:14
Speaker 1: Storyline There The big ten has a lot on, the,
2:29:17
Speaker 1: Line right i'm if you told me All Three big
2:29:23
Speaker 1: ten teams lost, This Weekend i'll State, To miami Indiana,
2:29:26
Speaker 1: to Alabama and Oregon To. Texas, tech right there's the
2:29:31
Speaker 1: only other Game Is Georgia ole miss which Has No
2:29:34
Speaker 1: big ten team. In it what's, the, Narrative right i'm, Just,
2:29:40
Speaker 1: Saying look i'm not. Predicting anything and, you Know The
2:29:43
Speaker 1: big ten's fan BASE is, i think second. To none
2:29:47
Speaker 1: they have. Terrific fans you know they'll they'll sell out
2:29:51
Speaker 1: stadiums for eight and, Four teams so kudos. TO them
2:29:56
Speaker 1: i just think it's a storyline that's sitting. Out there
2:29:58
Speaker 1: i'm obviously very Bullish and iamy's ability To Beat. OHIO
2:30:01
Speaker 1: state I Think. TEXAS tech I think oregon is. MUCH
2:30:05
Speaker 1: softer i don't THINK they've i am not impressed With who. Oregon's, Beat,
2:30:08
Speaker 1: yet look They Beat. Texas tech i'm not going to
2:30:11
Speaker 1: be a. Doubter Anymore but i'm a DOUBTER until i
2:30:14
Speaker 1: see them play a team that CAN physically, i think
2:30:18
Speaker 1: bully them in. A way they haven't. Faced yet they
2:30:21
Speaker 1: Didn't Face ohio state, this year they Didn't, face michigan
2:30:24
Speaker 1: they didn't face the More Physical big. Ten, teams well we.
2:30:28
Speaker 1: Shall see Maybe maybe indiana, does count is That maybe iowa.
2:30:32
Speaker 1: Does count but look at the struggles they Had with Indiana,
2:30:35
Speaker 1: and iowa who are built more Physically than. Oregon IS
2:30:39
Speaker 1: so i HAVE some i have some. Suspicion there and
2:30:41
Speaker 1: then of course there's the THE question i Have In
2:30:43
Speaker 1: indiana alabama is you know you have the Whole hot,
2:30:47
Speaker 1: you know there used to be there was a bit
2:30:49
Speaker 1: of A the it seemed as if we went through
2:30:54
Speaker 1: a period in the eighties and nineties where the team
2:30:57
Speaker 1: With The heisman trophy candidate usually lost their if they
2:31:00
Speaker 1: were playing a meaningful, little game usually lost and the, assumption,
2:31:03
Speaker 1: was well the player wasn't around. As much they were
2:31:06
Speaker 1: basically on the. Banquet circuit because if you Win The,
2:31:08
Speaker 1: heisman trophy it also means you likely Win a davy
2:31:11
Speaker 1: O'Brien or you win the and there's all these, awards
2:31:13
Speaker 1: ceremonies and yes, they've consolidated it's somewhat into. One thing
2:31:17
Speaker 1: but you're doing you're making more money than you've ever
2:31:21
Speaker 1: made at, any time and, appearance fees maybe you're starting,
2:31:24
Speaker 1: a business maybe you're doing all sorts. Of stuff so
2:31:27
Speaker 1: you have the distraction issue that, is that never mind
2:31:31
Speaker 1: the overall distraction that every players are facing with the
2:31:34
Speaker 1: portal being portal door opens two days After the, miami
2:31:38
Speaker 1: game one day After the january, first games which is
2:31:41
Speaker 1: what's leading a lot of people to assume That ole
2:31:43
Speaker 1: miss gets just Hammered by georgia because half those players
2:31:47
Speaker 1: are trying to figure out what hour they should SIGN
2:31:51
Speaker 1: with lsu to transfer From ole MISS to lsu And Follow.
2:31:54
Speaker 1: Lane kiffin so the two QUESTION marks i Have In.
2:31:59
Speaker 1: Alabama indiana One is Kaylen de bor is a great, Game,
2:32:01
Speaker 1: planner okay and you can't deny that he's not. The guy,
2:32:07
Speaker 1: You know alabama is better in bigger games than they
2:32:09
Speaker 1: are in. Smaller GAMES so i, you know and you
2:32:13
Speaker 1: Look at Kaylen de bor's record in playoffs at lower
2:32:17
Speaker 1: levels how he handled big Games at, washington right it
2:32:21
Speaker 1: did seem as they he was a. Game planner indiana
2:32:28
Speaker 1: has some significant injuries, on defense including the one where
2:32:32
Speaker 1: they lost. The lineman thanks to their celebration Of The big,
2:32:34
Speaker 1: ten game that's not an. Insignificant loss so And The,
2:32:39
Speaker 1: rose bowl, you know this is the Biggest stage indiana's ever.
2:32:43
Speaker 1: Played on now we're going to keep saying that right
2:32:45
Speaker 1: wherever stage, they are it's the biggest stage because and,
2:32:48
Speaker 1: you know look when you're when you're knocking on the
2:32:51
Speaker 1: door of the, elite Club, Right, indiana, oregon right you certain. Certain,
2:32:58
Speaker 1: Entities already alabama lose and it won't matter to their long.
2:33:01
Speaker 1: Term legacy indiana loses and suddenly. Is out they couldn't
2:33:04
Speaker 1: play with the big boys. Right up the first time
2:33:07
Speaker 1: they FACE an, sec opponent look what happens. To them
2:33:09
Speaker 1: so the pressure's More. In indiana alabama's playing with, house
2:33:14
Speaker 1: money just like the pressure's More In. Ohio state miami's
2:33:16
Speaker 1: playing with. House money the pressure's MORE on i Think
2:33:20
Speaker 1: On texas tech In The texas tech organ game for what,
2:33:23
Speaker 1: it's worth Because the, big, twelve right, You know miami
2:33:26
Speaker 1: got its win to prove. It Belong The big twelve
2:33:29
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten its WIN. By us Win Over georgia tech
2:33:32
Speaker 1: is not the same As As texas tech Knocking, off
2:33:35
Speaker 1: oregon AND will I Think texas tech is on. THE
2:33:40
Speaker 1: level i, Really do but you got to see. It
2:33:45
Speaker 1: right they're knocking on the door and they, went in
2:33:48
Speaker 1: and the Winner Of Texas tech oregon has a better
2:33:50
Speaker 1: shot of getting letting in the door than the, loser.
2:33:53
Speaker 1: Does obviously And Then GEORGIA olemiss i THINK the, i
2:33:57
Speaker 1: THINK oh, I am i am betting That that georgia
2:34:01
Speaker 1: just sort of. Smokes them and it has more to
2:34:04
Speaker 1: do with Distracted ole miss players than it is debating
2:34:09
Speaker 1: whether one side is better than. THE other i just think, it's,
2:34:12
Speaker 1: Simply uh george is better. In general and you're going
2:34:15
Speaker 1: to have half of The old miss team thinking about
2:34:17
Speaker 1: it's uh how much money they're gonna get PAID. At
2:34:21
Speaker 1: lsu so. WE'LL see i am awfully CONFIDENT If i
2:34:27
Speaker 1: i'll SAY where i am either blindly loyal to my
2:34:30
Speaker 1: my Homies In coral GABLES or i am right, about
2:34:38
Speaker 1: this and THAT is i think the point spread on
2:34:40
Speaker 1: this is just ridiculous. And ABSURD and I think this
2:34:44
Speaker 1: gets it to. How perception, You, know again a point
2:34:48
Speaker 1: spread doesn't indicate whether these teams. Are close it's how
2:34:53
Speaker 1: the public. Regards them and there is a Belief That
2:34:57
Speaker 1: ohio state is a juggernaut And the miami it can
2:35:02
Speaker 1: all fall apart at, any, moment right and it's all about,
2:35:05
Speaker 1: recency Bias and miami has fall has not met. The
2:35:09
Speaker 1: MOMENT although i would argue That the miami teams in
2:35:13
Speaker 1: the last ten years wouldn't have WON that A and,
2:35:15
Speaker 1: m game this team. Seems different we're going to find
2:35:18
Speaker 1: Out Against. Ohio state but that's that nine and a half.
2:35:22
Speaker 1: POINT spread i just don't. BUY it i don't think
2:35:26
Speaker 1: that game this. Game is if it's more than, One
2:35:28
Speaker 1: score i'd. BE surprised i think it's going to be another.
2:35:32
Speaker 1: SLOW game i think it's going to be, another grinder
2:35:35
Speaker 1: particularly in the. First HALF and i will, SAY this
2:35:40
Speaker 1: i Don't think miami Wins If ohio state scores more
2:35:45
Speaker 1: than twenty. FOUR points i don't Know if miami can
2:35:48
Speaker 1: score thirty one or twenty seven or. TWENTY eight i
2:35:52
Speaker 1: Think if miami wins, this game it's because they win
2:35:54
Speaker 1: the game twenty four to twenty twenty four, to seventeen twenty.
2:35:57
Speaker 1: To seventeen you See where. I'm going that's that's my expectation.
2:36:02
Speaker 1: On That but i'll Tell you i'll SAY what i said.
2:36:07
Speaker 1: IT there i do think it's about time look to
2:36:11
Speaker 1: just let. Her rip you're going to have to if
2:36:14
Speaker 1: we fall behind by. TEN points i want, to see,
2:36:17
Speaker 1: you Know Let carson beck live or die, with him
2:36:21
Speaker 1: don't try to protect. Him ANYMORE and i still think
2:36:24
Speaker 1: there's too much play calling that's done to protect rather
2:36:28
Speaker 1: than simply to let the chips fall where. They May, All,
2:36:33
Speaker 1: Right um, i've GOT like, i said, coming up we'll
2:36:38
Speaker 1: have one more drop. THIS week i got a couple
2:36:40
Speaker 1: of what IFS that i am doing based on, your
2:36:44
Speaker 1: feedback two pretty. Big Ones one i've already told You
2:36:47
Speaker 1: that i'm gonna do about twenty What if trump wins
2:36:50
Speaker 1: a twenty. Twenty election i'm actually going to put two
2:36:52
Speaker 1: different what ifs into the same. Episode there i'm also
2:36:55
Speaker 1: going to Do a powerhouse. Mail bag we're going to
2:36:57
Speaker 1: go forty five minutes full. Just, question so by, the
2:37:01
Speaker 1: way if you're listening now and you want to get
2:37:03
Speaker 1: a question in under the under the under.
2:37:05
Speaker 2: The deadline.
2:37:06
Speaker 1: Submit asap so, with that thanks for, your support thanks,
2:37:11
Speaker 1: for listening and until we, upload again hm m m
2:37:15
Speaker 1: m hm
2:37:17
Speaker 4: Hm