Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Ark (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Ark (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:41
  Commentary podcast. You join us on Joe's sofa.
• 0:48
  Yes, indeed. Full of cake?
• 0:50
  That's right. Full of cold?
• 0:51
  Yes. And Monoid has collapsed and
• 0:53
  died. Centrus is having a terrible
• 0:56
  time. Zentos is also having a terrible
• 0:58
  time. Zentros, Zentros and Zentios.
• 1:05
  Yes, variations on a. Variations on a theme.
• 1:08
  In fact, we could probably write a piece of music concrete based
• 1:12
  on the names of the future names.
• 1:14
  Yes, thank you for telling me how to pronounce that, by the
• 1:17
  way, It's. OK, if it's concreting.
• 1:19
  All over the place. I'm I'm bothered that I can't
• 1:22
  remember the name of the French group that Verity Lambert wanted
• 1:24
  to do the Doctor Who theme. But anyways.
• 1:26
  That is the people that did the web planet, you know.
• 1:29
  Is is that? I think it is, but I don't think
• 1:30
  they, I don't think they wrote it for the web planet.
• 1:32
  No, no, they just used stop music.
• 1:34
  Yeah, it's a, there's a whole. Yeah, it's a, it's a very
• 1:39
  interesting genre. And you can see why Verity was
• 1:42
  looking for something kind of otherworldly like that.
• 1:43
  But early music, concrete is just literally they're playing
• 1:46
  with recorded sounds. Pierre Schaefer, I think, was
• 1:51
  the first composer who the name was given to.
• 1:53
  And and he like, there's one and it's just industrial sounds.
• 1:57
  He went out with a presumably A reel to reel like drilling and
• 2:02
  hammering. You know, he went out into the
• 2:04
  street. Have drilling.
• 2:06
  He would recorded stuff in the streets.
• 2:07
  It sounds very basic to our ears because but he's the the first
• 2:11
  person who ever went well. Look, if I if I get.
• 2:13
  A beat out of a hand. No, it's but he's.
• 2:14
  Not he's not creating a beat, he's going and here's a bit of
• 2:17
  this and he's creating collage. The whole idea was if I record
• 2:22
  sounds which are not musical sounds but are just noises and
• 2:27
  then assemble them, then it then it becomes music.
• 2:31
  It's challenging the very idea of what music hears, but it's it
• 2:34
  sounds very basic to us because what he was doing obviously
• 2:37
  requires him to, to tape bits of tape together painstakingly.
• 2:42
  We could do with a mobile phone in 30 seconds.
• 2:45
  So it's not very sophisticated, but it but on the other hand, it
• 2:48
  challenges the whole idea of what what music.
• 2:50
  Can be and like it's something that Toby Haddock always says
• 2:54
  about the 60s and I absolutely, I'm in 100% agreement.
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  What is that? There is a sense of weirdness,
• 3:01
  an alienness about the 60s that I don't think Doctor Who
• 3:05
  captures again. And it's there in the types of
• 3:08
  stories that they're telling. And it's definitely there in the
• 3:12
  music and the weird sound effects that they use all the
• 3:15
  time in the stories. There's there's just a an
• 3:19
  otherness about the 60s that I really like.
• 3:22
  There is and and one of the sometimes sung but still weirdly
• 3:29
  unsung heroes is Dick Mills and and just how transformative
• 3:36
  those and you only you only really get it when you see raw
• 3:39
  footage. You know, if you wade through
• 3:41
  some of the extra features on the Blu rays where you actually
• 3:47
  get to see the same. I mean, yeah, I I don't have the
• 3:51
  stomach to kind of go through the full 5 hour versions.
• 3:54
  But what you get from that is actually how much you are
• 3:57
  suddenly conscious of being in a in a television studio and how
• 4:02
  much these sounds, which is just subtly kind of providing
• 4:05
  atmosphere, lift a scene and provide kind of the set dressing
• 4:10
  that the the budget can't afford to.
• 4:13
  Well, it's like that jungle in episode 1, there's loads of it
• 4:16
  sounds. Like a beautiful Borneo.
• 4:18
  Or somewhere like that, you know, some tropical jungle
• 4:21
  somewhere. It sounds like Whipsnade are.
• 4:23
  You sure? Or or you know the jungle in
• 4:26
  Dalek's Master plan? Yeah.
• 4:27
  Kemble. Oh those.
• 4:29
  Yeah, Yeah. Or even in the Chase.
• 4:31
  Even in the chase. Yeah, well, you've got that sort
• 4:33
  of dripping noise when you're on the fungoid planet, you know,
• 4:36
  all those fabulous noises for the mecha noise.
• 4:39
  Yeah, You know, sorry, that was quite bad.
• 4:41
  But you know what? I'm.
• 4:42
  Getting at those fungus things in the in the chase, it's all.
• 4:45
  It's quite oppressive, isn't it, though?
• 4:47
  Oh. Oh, that's really good.
• 4:50
  That's me. Well, I'm, you know, I'm going
• 4:51
  to be, I've been, I've been releasing a, an album, James
• 4:56
  Lark sings the music Concretion. Doctor Who?
• 4:59
  That was even fungal noise in the chase or a particularly good
• 5:03
  blowjob. One or the other?
• 5:08
  Well, look should. We go into, I forget what
• 5:10
  Episode 2 is called, but we'll see in a minute.
• 5:13
  The first one was the Steel Sky, wasn't it?
• 5:15
  Yes. We're not going to have
• 5:16
  individual titles for much longer.
• 5:18
  We're not. What's this one called the
• 5:20
  plague? The plague?
• 5:21
  Is it called the plague that? Sounds very dramatic.
• 5:23
  If it's not called the plague, I'll go back in time and I'll
• 5:28
  I'll rewrite it. You're doing a lot of that
• 5:31
  tonight. What do you think your name is?
• 5:32
  Steven Moffett. Jesus Christ.
• 5:34
  Well, I shall count us in then, shall I?
• 5:36
  You should OK in 321. And we are ready with the actual
• 5:43
  episode this time, isn't it? I mean, talk about weird.
• 5:47
  Look at this dark sequence. What the hell is going on here,
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  Doctor O Ho? Doc Doc O ho, who's that?
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  A. A scholar of some repute.
• 6:01
  That's the website I go to to check whether a big finish
• 6:04
  release is worth. Buying.
• 6:05
  Oh that prick. Oh no.
• 6:07
  Oh look, we open. Up right.
• 6:09
  So here we go. This is like it's a little bit
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  kind of ground control to Major Tom, isn't it the special
• 6:14
  galactic law? Oh really?
• 6:18
  What is the special galactic law?
• 6:20
  Anyone who breaks. Yes, that's right.
• 6:23
  Sent to prison. Why don't they just get
• 6:24
  miniaturised? Oh, he does not look in a good
• 6:28
  way. Centrist.
• 6:29
  Look at him. He's.
• 6:31
  He's on his deathbed. In a minute.
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  Does he actually die in this? Oh no, no, they get the cure
• 6:34
  just in time. Oh, that is a it's a it's a it's
• 6:38
  I I was right points for me or, or either I was right or I
• 6:41
  successfully changed time. This episode is now called The
• 6:44
  Play, whatever it was before. How much do you imagine Leslie
• 6:47
  Scott? I my understanding is that
• 6:49
  Leslie Scott who was girlfriend or wife of Paula, she.
• 6:52
  Just wanted ATV credit. Not right a single line.
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  I saw the myth makers where they did.
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  They did a a series of interviews at Apanopt and they
• 7:01
  put them out as a bit and he says that she wanted a TV
• 7:04
  credit. That's it.
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  Which is a shame, because maybe she could have given Dodo some
• 7:09
  slightly more. Look the way hard, will you stop
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  sniveling child? I mean, she's.
• 7:18
  Don't worry, she's fault at. All my child.
• 7:22
  Like, she's annoying. She's an annoying character.
• 7:24
  I don't think this is a great story for her.
• 7:25
  But she's supposed to. Be as well she is supposed to
• 7:27
  be, yeah. And her petulance is certainly
• 7:30
  believable. And the way that Hartnell kind
• 7:34
  of responds in this slightly fatherly, slightly patronising
• 7:38
  way is is nice. It it brings out strengths in
• 7:41
  him for sure, in a way that I don't know that Ben and Polly
• 7:44
  do. No, sorry, I can't.
• 7:47
  Let's go do blow your nose, child.
• 7:49
  It's running all over the place. You patch your eyes in kit.
• 7:55
  Oh, she could have. She could have gone a bit more
• 7:56
  method than actually had her nose running all over the place.
• 8:00
  She's. Straight to sleep, she says.
• 8:02
  Put your head down and she's gone in the second, Yeah.
• 8:05
  I mean. There's a wonderful bit, right?
• 8:07
  You wait for it at the end of this when Hartnell.
• 8:09
  'S finally got the cure, and the director's in on it.
• 8:12
  He zooms around as Hartnell walks in the room, clutching his
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  lapels, going that's it. I've solved all your problems
• 8:18
  gentlemen. It's.
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  Just wonderful. I'm beginning to wonder whether
• 8:21
  the sign language is another of the ways that the the humans
• 8:25
  patronising attitude towards the monoids is being demonstrated.
• 8:28
  I don't think it's real sign language at all.
• 8:30
  I think they're just making it up and the monoids are there
• 8:32
  going when I when I get control of this place.
• 8:36
  This is quite economic, doesn't it?
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  Cut into lots of shots of monoids falling dead or or I'll.
• 8:43
  That was a very sexy fade from the the the monitor to the
• 8:46
  actual footage of that one collapsing as.
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  Well, you were going to say that man's bare.
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  Eye. No, There we go.
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  Right. No.
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  OK, so here we go. The the subtly seeded politics
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  there. Thank goodness none of them has
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  died. We're saying humans have a
• 8:59
  different value in the society to monoids who have died.
• 9:03
  Yes, he just said another deaf, didn't he when the monoi
• 9:06
  collapsed. So I I think that's deliberate.
• 9:09
  Oh, now here's Michael Sheard making his very first appearance
• 9:13
  in Doctor Who. You know, a bit later on he'll
• 9:15
  be in Castro. Valva Remembers the Daleks,
• 9:17
  Pyramids of Mars, Mind of Evil. And now I say he looks very
• 9:22
  fetching in that shower curtain. Don't you think he's got round
• 9:27
  his face? Oh, it's like a COVID mask.
• 9:28
  It's a COVID mask, yes, yeah. So we're now into the COVID
• 9:31
  episode. This obviously now all hits very
• 9:34
  they. Should have done this for the
• 9:35
  COVID mask. They've done it.
• 9:36
  Probably would have been as effective as some of the PPE
• 9:39
  they were sold. Talk about politics.
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  This. Is right.
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  You're on one today, ain't you? Oh no, Here we go.
• 9:49
  Should anything happen to me, do all in your power along with
• 9:53
  the. Others.
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  Actually, James, can I say it now?
• 9:55
  Yes you can. Should anything happen to me,
• 9:57
  please take over a hamster of a blood pen knife.
• 10:01
  Promise me double entendres will continue.
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  What happens to me is not important.
• 10:06
  That's what that's what he said, that's what he said.
• 10:09
  Yeah, but the voyage and the eventual landing of this
• 10:12
  podcast. How many descendants is this
• 10:14
  podcast going to have? God.
• 10:16
  None. Hopefully that's the.
• 10:19
  Only thing that's important. Oh fuck, bring it down a bit
• 10:23
  mate. I mean that is a theatrical
• 10:25
  performance isn't it? That is supposed to be heard at
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  the back of the theatre. This also, I think is really
• 10:31
  interesting and there there are two ways of reading this.
• 10:34
  Either it is just grotesquely insensitive, or it's again
• 10:40
  showing the way that monoids are not treated with the respect
• 10:44
  that they've. Thrown out of space, isn't it?
• 10:47
  No, but it's also it's the fact that they have they have what is
• 10:50
  clearly perceived by the humans as a disturbing and primitive
• 10:55
  ritual, but actually it shows them to treat their own deaths
• 11:01
  more seriously than the bloody humans are.
• 11:04
  And it's Dodo who says they sound like savages.
• 11:08
  That's a really pointed line and I.
• 11:11
  Play the music here as well. That's sort of the BOM, BOM,
• 11:14
  yeah. And.
• 11:15
  And it's not, you know, the, the kind of Hollywood vernacular for
• 11:20
  for savage ritual is is just drum beats.
• 11:27
  This, this, this music is altogether more sophisticated.
• 11:32
  I, I'm going to, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt
• 11:37
  and say that this is an attempt to show the monoids as a
• 11:41
  sophisticated race with their own rituals, their own customs,
• 11:46
  which are being treated in the wrong way by the humans, Dodo
• 11:53
  included. So.
• 11:54
  Why then in the script, if they're treated with a level of
• 11:59
  nuance in episodes one and two, are they then just comedy
• 12:03
  idiotic villains in three and. Four.
• 12:06
  Well, I don't have an answer to that.
• 12:08
  Why would you? Throw that away.
• 12:09
  Except, oh, this is a. That's great.
• 12:12
  It's not as good later though as when the when.
• 12:14
  The huge. Statue.
• 12:16
  Gets fried. Oh, I think that might be on a
• 12:18
  string there, but nevermind. It's not a big idea though,
• 12:21
  isn't it? Like you throw the debt out into
• 12:23
  space like it's. Here's here's my My theory about
• 12:29
  why the monoids are written as as, as such ridiculous villains
• 12:32
  in episode 3 and 4 is that Paul Axon is, doesn't really know how
• 12:37
  to write science fiction. I mean, he's and and he's not
• 12:41
  been writing science fiction. I mean, his, his CV is not a
• 12:44
  particularly dense one, but he's been writing for kind of spy
• 12:47
  thrillers the same that kind of thing.
• 12:50
  I, I, I genuinely think it's along with all of the other
• 12:54
  slightly ham fisted references to galactic this and security
• 12:59
  that the the the portrayal of science fiction villainy is just
• 13:04
  someone who doesn't really know how to write it.
• 13:07
  And it's unfortunate because you're absolutely right.
• 13:09
  Like if if we are trying to say something nuanced about the way
• 13:13
  that the Monois are treated, then they probably should be
• 13:15
  written better. But I don't think there's
• 13:17
  anything malicious in it, which is 1 reading I've certainly
• 13:20
  seen. Yeah, but.
• 13:23
  It's the same. People have put the same reading
• 13:25
  on the savages as well, and I think there's more of an
• 13:28
  argument to be made of the savages that there is a
• 13:30
  political reading there because we know.
• 13:32
  That it was originally. Called the White Savages and you
• 13:35
  know it was talking about something.
• 13:40
  OK, that's great. Now don't they put Stephen on
• 13:43
  trial in a minute? It gives Peter Purvis a chance
• 13:46
  to sort of rail against the authority.
• 13:48
  And, and we know now because of the the helpful captions that
• 13:51
  that that the angry man is called Zentos.
• 13:54
  Zentos. Zentos, whatever the other ones
• 13:57
  are called. Who's centrist then?
• 13:58
  I don't know. I just made him.
• 14:00
  Up made him up. Now, is this the episode?
• 14:04
  Is it? This, or is it in the sensor
• 14:06
  rights where we get a great montage of Hartnell doing all of
• 14:09
  his sort of medical experiments trying to find the.
• 14:12
  Cure. Oh no, it's in this one.
• 14:13
  It's in. This one just wonderful and
• 14:16
  Hartnell ever the pro. Like.
• 14:18
  Getting frustrated and angry and tearing things up.
• 14:23
  It's great. There is an issue with the
• 14:25
  monoids, which is that they they are only as effective as their
• 14:32
  wig is and sometimes it's been placed really well and then the
• 14:35
  the eyeball in the mouth really does look like an eye.
• 14:38
  Sometimes the wig is sits a little bit too high and it just
• 14:41
  looks like someone's holding a ping pong ball in their mouth.
• 14:45
  I think I do like the idea of it.
• 14:48
  I'll tell you what, the 1st 2 episodes as a self-contained
• 14:52
  story, I think it's really the narrative is really tightly
• 14:56
  structured in a way that 60s Doctor Who rarely is.
• 15:00
  It introduces the big ideas, it brings in the time travellers,
• 15:06
  it brings in the cold, it starts taking people out, it goes
• 15:09
  straight to the trial. They find the cure and then they
• 15:12
  go it's it's a really fast 2 episodes.
• 15:15
  It is. And if you consider that the two
• 15:17
  passes we've had up until this point are the edge of
• 15:20
  destruction and the rescue, I would say this.
• 15:23
  Packed full of incident, the pair of them.
• 15:25
  Yes. Yes.
• 15:28
  How would you write a whodunit with a suspect pool of 1?
• 15:36
  We can't afford any more actors. Oh shitty girl.
• 15:40
  Oh, here we go, Zentos shouting out.
• 15:43
  That's true. It's true.
• 15:44
  He's telling the truth. Oh, and Purvis is really going
• 15:48
  for it. Oh.
• 15:49
  Good God I've not seen a man that's sweaty in years.
• 15:52
  I I, you're, you're, you're bang on.
• 15:55
  This is a pacey episode and we've got, we've already had
• 15:59
  the, the, the whole human race packed into a spaceship and, and
• 16:03
  now we we're doing courtroom drama.
• 16:05
  And by the end of the episode, the earth blows up.
• 16:07
  Yeah, like, there's a lot. Oh, is that episode 3 or 4?
• 16:10
  No, no, no. No, this one isn't it.
• 16:12
  Yeah. Oh, for once, we've got a.
• 16:17
  Genuinely defiant crowd I. Present to you the crowd in the
• 16:20
  Pirate Planet. Know that the acting is good.
• 16:24
  I feel like they've been really well directed and this, yeah, a
• 16:30
  consistent sense of even. Stephen is ill now, you know.
• 16:35
  Oh, hang on. So it's a mutated fever.
• 16:37
  So. So our regulars.
• 16:40
  Oh, they're now vulnerable to now.
• 16:41
  Yeah, so. So it's even more urgent.
• 16:45
  You know, we don't, we might not just lose the human race.
• 16:49
  We may lose the regulars of Doctor Who.
• 16:52
  Oh, now watch that perspective backdrop of the steel sky, which
• 16:57
  gets ever more creased as the story goes on, as they keep
• 17:00
  taking it down. They're.
• 17:01
  Having to build it up again, yeah.
• 17:02
  Oh. For God sake has anyone got the
• 17:04
  iron? No, it will.
• 17:05
  Do they need a good steam iron? Don't.
• 17:07
  They has she already got a bit look.
• 17:09
  It was a lot darker in the first episode.
• 17:12
  Now it's fading a bit. Barry and Uber needs to get the
• 17:16
  paints out again. The problem with the future, the
• 17:19
  problem with the future where they dress in strips of fabric
• 17:22
  rather than whole costumes, is they've they've lost the ability
• 17:24
  to iron. And actually, had Dodo not
• 17:27
  brought a cold, she could have maybe crumpled one of their
• 17:31
  costumes and created a whole crisis by requiring them to
• 17:35
  reinvent the iron. Well, but you know, you see
• 17:39
  those fabulous strips that they use there for their costumes.
• 17:42
  If you were sort of romancing somebody you know, you don't
• 17:45
  have to answer. Oh, very easy access.
• 17:46
  Just get your. Hands straight in there and the
• 17:48
  look and the skirt. See all the underwear I.
• 17:51
  Know they've got lovely fires, these men What?
• 17:54
  Is it What is it? With cheap sci-fi and costume
• 17:58
  designers going, it doesn't matter if we can see their their
• 18:00
  bits and their underwear, does it?
• 18:02
  Oh, marvellous. Just put the man you can.
• 18:04
  Complain in. That's more visual splendor on
• 18:07
  display. Do you remember the Swampy's in
• 18:10
  Power of Crow? I do, you do.
• 18:12
  See some lovely asses in that? I'll tell you they're green, but
• 18:15
  you know it's. Full circle where they just they
• 18:18
  put them in see through costumes, but I.
• 18:20
  Mean. Those are twinks, man.
• 18:21
  I don't know if they're all. Of age, Peter Grimwade.
• 18:24
  You should have been. Careful with your camera.
• 18:26
  Work. Peter Grimwade I just wonder if
• 18:30
  we put them in the water, we can make them any more see through.
• 18:34
  How do we? Fall down this rabbit hole.
• 18:39
  You said you, you were, you were critical of of the first episode
• 18:43
  that we'd been a little bit ah. Yes, too political.
• 18:47
  It tasteful, too political. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:49
  Let's dumb it down. Thank you I.
• 18:51
  Mean with the the mono is, yeah, I mean, is that supposed to be
• 18:54
  skin? It's a bit regular I think.
• 18:56
  It is supposed to be skin, but I but I scales.
• 18:58
  But. Again, but I think it's scaly.
• 19:00
  I think it's, it's, I think there's a consistency with the
• 19:04
  presence of an elephant because I believe that is the kind of
• 19:08
  effect they're going for with the monoids, which is why I
• 19:10
  don't ever quite buy the idea that they are symbolic for kind
• 19:15
  of dark skin, you know, native humans.
• 19:22
  It's, it's, I just think it's an attempt to, to, to do, to do a
• 19:25
  completely different race. It's like.
• 19:27
  Well, you know, every time you do an alien, you could give that
• 19:30
  reading then. They're always other, aren't
• 19:32
  they? They're always a foreigner.
• 19:37
  Yeah. Oh, look at heart.
• 19:38
  No. Now look.
• 19:39
  Allow. Me to help my friend.
• 19:41
  Nobby I do think it is great that Stephen's got the plague
• 19:43
  now because I think for us, the stakes are higher now.
• 19:47
  We don't really care about these nobodies, but we do care about
• 19:49
  Stephen. Don't.
• 19:53
  You can't threaten Dodo because no one cares about it yet.
• 19:56
  Do we not care for that? I feel like that they have
• 19:59
  established. Very plainly that this is the
• 20:03
  future for the human race. Yes.
• 20:07
  So I think we are invited to feel that this is the the real
• 20:11
  jeopardy here is that everyone dies.
• 20:14
  I think that, but yeah, but these people, who cares if this
• 20:18
  is the future of the human race? I'll care more about the
• 20:20
  monoids. That's where I say kind of the
• 20:23
  intention, the realization are constantly at odds here.
• 20:27
  This is your commander speaking. Now the commander, as I said
• 20:31
  before, we're not sure whether he's ill or whether just the
• 20:34
  actor is so tired by this point that Michael Sheer does to hold
• 20:39
  him up. He looks a bit like Skeletor at
• 20:41
  the moment, doesn't he? From he man.
• 20:43
  He's gone from Peter Cabaldu Skeletor.
• 20:45
  There isn't too much of A gulf between those two.
• 20:48
  Things, James. If I'm honest, Peter, I know
• 20:51
  you're not. Listening, but I apologise.
• 20:55
  To use his young. Friend as a Guinea.
• 20:57
  Pig. Excuse me?
• 21:01
  Oh, bless him. Oh, OK, so they're going to use
• 21:03
  Stephen to test the cure? That's right.
• 21:06
  Bloody old doctor, I hope you get it right.
• 21:09
  Remember in the myth makers when he was coming out of all sorts
• 21:11
  of plans that went wrong, you know, catapulting people over
• 21:14
  the wall and things like that? Yeah, that.
• 21:16
  I mean yes the the the Donald Cossen Dr. would wipe out the
• 21:21
  human race in this episode for comic effect.
• 21:24
  Douglas Adams would probably do it as well, wouldn't it?
• 21:26
  Just for a laugh. How do you think that might have
• 21:31
  been a match made in heavy? You know Donald Cotton as
• 21:33
  script. Edited by Douglas Adams.
• 21:35
  That would have been a more interesting episode 3 if they
• 21:37
  turned up and it's a monoid statue and it wasn't that the
• 21:39
  monoids had taken over so well, no, you wiped out the human race
• 21:43
  doctor. That's why it's a, That's why
• 21:45
  we're in charge now. Do you think the Face of Evil is
• 21:48
  a better version of the consequences?
• 21:52
  You know, spilling out from a previous adventure?
• 21:58
  I find it a bit dull. It's a bit dull, isn't it?
• 22:01
  Yeah. This is much more.
• 22:02
  Fun this has got much more packed into it.
• 22:07
  Yeah, clearly the face of evil is a is a much more
• 22:09
  sophisticated bit of writing and and more disturbing as well.
• 22:15
  But you know, they're, they're separated by by 10 years.
• 22:18
  I think it's a bit more worthy though, and I never use worthy
• 22:22
  in a particularly positive way. I wish the face of evil was as
• 22:28
  good as its best bits. That cliffhanger where he's just
• 22:31
  shouting who am I? I'd love that, yeah.
• 22:34
  I do too. Yeah, I know.
• 22:36
  But then it ends up with, you know, like zombies going around
• 22:39
  that spaceship, doesn't it? There's a lot.
• 22:42
  Dressed up like Thunderbirds. There's a lot of Thunderbirds in
• 22:45
  corridors and there's a lot of it's penalty savages, Savages in
• 22:49
  dust. It's Pennant Roberts.
• 22:51
  Unfortunately, Roberts is nowhere near as good a director
• 22:54
  as Mr. Emerson here. Mr. Emerson, really, really
• 22:58
  interesting direction and, and you're, you're dead right about
• 23:01
  the, the camera constantly moving.
• 23:03
  I mean that that I thought that courtroom scene in particular
• 23:06
  was really dynamic and, and there was a sense that the the
• 23:11
  direction, the television direction, which I think a lot
• 23:15
  of television directors and Doctor Who directors.
• 23:17
  Yeah, the fate to the dead elephant.
• 23:20
  Oh, he's a left and dead. Well, no, but everyone.
• 23:21
  'S still alive, everyone. 'S sort of getting I'll at.
• 23:24
  This is a Mont. This is the doctor's montage.
• 23:25
  There we. Go.
• 23:27
  But there isn't. Though, Mike.
• 23:29
  There is a sense here that the the actors have been directed
• 23:34
  and in a way that is very much simpatico with the the the
• 23:40
  visuals. Look how lovely he is to the
• 23:43
  monoid. Here is little assisty because
• 23:44
  you're far more knowledgeable here than people suggest.
• 23:47
  Is that a hint that they've been planning a rebellion the whole
• 23:51
  time? No, but I think it's the doctor
• 23:53
  is the only person who treats the monoids like equals.
• 23:56
  I think that's that's am I? Am I just where making this a?
• 24:01
  Sterilised pustule. He's he's talking to the monoid
• 24:06
  like the like he would treat to any of his, he would talk to any
• 24:09
  of his companions. Oh no.
• 24:10
  Better in some cases. I think Hartnell, reputedly a a
• 24:15
  bit of a racist himself, actually gets this and and
• 24:18
  understands that the Doctor has to to see all races as
• 24:22
  potentially intelligent. Yes, but Hartnell I think is a
• 24:25
  racist in his personal. Life, not his profession.
• 24:28
  Not his personal life. He will absolutely play the
• 24:33
  script as written. Here we go, he's cured him.
• 24:39
  Watch him now. This is the bit where he goes in
• 24:41
  he looks so proud of. Himself.
• 24:43
  It's just marvellous. And the camera sort of swooped,
• 24:46
  stamped. Do you remember the camera was
• 24:48
  moving for the forest. It was moving through that set
• 24:51
  as the the monoids were doing their funeral ritual.
• 24:56
  I think it's rather touching. He's talking to that monoid like
• 25:00
  in the same way that he talks to Liz Shaw.
• 25:03
  It's a shame that centrist couldn't have died or then Toss
• 25:05
  or whatever his name is the old man I.
• 25:09
  Thought you were going to say it's a shame that Monoid wasn't
• 25:10
  available to play Liz Shaw. Oh.
• 25:13
  That would have been very amusing, wouldn't it?
• 25:15
  Oh, camera light. John, are you making a
• 25:18
  suggestion that no, OK, you're not good?
• 25:23
  Here we go, watch it ready. The camera zooms, he walks round
• 25:27
  and look, he's gone round the back, he's waiting for his queue
• 25:32
  to come in and then. Oh come on now, these two boring
• 25:37
  extras. 3/2. No, no, no, we've got to have a
• 25:43
  bit of a montage first. He can't be smug until he knows
• 25:46
  that that it's worked. Oh dodo, she's so.
• 25:52
  Concerned look. So do you think the people at
• 25:56
  the time fought genuinely? This was just going to be two
• 25:58
  parts like the rescue, like well, because.
• 26:00
  Disruption because the because the episodes have individual
• 26:03
  titles, don't they? There's no, there's no clue.
• 26:07
  I think it's pulling the same trick that Terry Nation pulls
• 26:10
  after episode 4 of the Daleks where they it looks like they're
• 26:13
  going to take off in the target. Cliffhanger, isn't it?
• 26:15
  But I think this one is as good and and different because the
• 26:21
  TARDIS does actually take off. So yeah, I think people would
• 26:23
  have assumed that's the end of the story.
• 26:25
  That oh, that was a great bit of editing.
• 26:26
  This is where he comes in now. Wait.
• 26:28
  For it wait for it he's like yes gentlemen, I have saved the day
• 26:33
  he's. So happy there was a great edit
• 26:38
  there where Dodo ran out of one room and into another and they
• 26:41
  clearly weren't adjoining rooms. Oh my word.
• 26:49
  It's a genuinely chilling image, I think.
• 26:53
  And it's, and it's not like a big explosion.
• 26:56
  It's not spectacle. It's the It's not with a bang,
• 27:00
  but a but a whimper. Now the earth has gone, you have
• 27:04
  700 years to finish your statue. Does he say we might pop back at
• 27:09
  one point? No, he doesn't.
• 27:13
  No, just goodbye, Goodbye. Oh, it's the last we're going to
• 27:16
  see of that grinning cadaver it is.
• 27:21
  Well, farewell. The last we'll see of the
• 27:23
  monoids. Are they still wearing these
• 27:25
  dresses in the future? I can't remember.
• 27:27
  We'll find out in a minute. They don't look like they're
• 27:31
  designed to last 700 years. I.
• 27:32
  Have. I do wonder though, if this was
• 27:34
  a 2 bar Sir? Yeah, as if this would all be a
• 27:37
  bit neat and a bit easy. But the two.
• 27:40
  But that's what I mean. I mean like the rescue.
• 27:45
  Don't. Don't wave it.
• 27:46
  They're just there right in front of you.
• 27:48
  Wait till you're in the distance.
• 27:50
  I'm not saying it should be a two-part.
• 27:51
  I'm just saying that I think that that it, the rug pull is
• 27:54
  that it it, it very convincingly ends the story and there's
• 27:58
  nothing to suggest that there are going to be any further
• 28:00
  consequences. That's why it's such a clever
• 28:02
  thing to say. OK, but you you visiting this
• 28:05
  place did change things. I'm so much more convinced by
• 28:09
  that thing going that that vehicle going through that
• 28:12
  forest. Than the go karts in happiness.
• 28:15
  Patrol, I mean, what happened in the intervening?
• 28:18
  Years. When when did they stop
• 28:21
  understanding how to make television look, The TARDIS
• 28:26
  takes off all in one shot as well.
• 28:28
  It's not a lock off. It's all in one shot and then
• 28:30
  he. Just reverses reverses out
• 28:32
  faster than the go karts in happiness patrol.
• 28:34
  That's right. And then don't.
• 28:38
  Oh no, we do, We do phase. So the TARDIS come back again,
• 28:43
  but I think immediately where there's a bit of a or do we
• 28:45
  think he's come back to the same?
• 28:47
  The same moment I think it's a pit.
• 28:49
  I don't know. Is it a pity that there's not a
• 28:51
  a blackout? Or a different location maybe?
• 28:57
  Or or a little TARDIS scene on. A minute.
• 29:00
  I think I've been here before. I'll watch some Trickers even
• 29:02
  more, you know. Well, where will we go next, my
• 29:04
  boy? Yeah, if they were doing it now,
• 29:09
  they do the credit, they do it as a post credits scene.
• 29:12
  Is this one of the best cliffhangers?
• 29:15
  It's a great twist. Melium and Baku.
• 29:26
  Which one was Baku? Which one was Bellium?
• 29:28
  No idea. I see she's not shouting for
• 29:30
  Zentos or centrists. He's long dead by now, shoved
• 29:37
  out the airlock with all the others.
• 29:41
  Oh my words. They finished the statue.
• 29:45
  Although we can still only see the feet, actually it's very
• 29:50
  nicely done, a bit of model work.
• 29:53
  It's a lovely model, it's a great model and it's got a real
• 29:55
  sense of scale. It's that music.
• 29:56
  Still maintain it's not quite as beautiful as the Sagrada
• 29:59
  Familia. Well, no, not as DEET.
• 30:03
  It's full of the Sagrada familiar.
• 30:04
  Looks a bit like an overly elaborate birthday cake.
• 30:07
  Oh, it's definitely got a birthday cake vibe.
• 30:08
  Do you know what? I mean, like, it's the the
• 30:11
  Piper's gone a bit crazy. Have you been inside it?
• 30:14
  I have, yeah, actually I did very like, like Arsenal isn't.
• 30:18
  It. Yes, I spend a lot of time down
• 30:20
  Las Ramblas, you know, dicing with the mime artists.
• 30:24
  It is a great cliffhanger because the, the the the great
• 30:29
  Doctor Who cliffhangers are not always shocks.
• 30:36
  They're moments that that keep you thinking.
• 30:39
  And that's a, that's a real well what what has gone on here
• 30:42
  moment, isn't it? I, I mean, I've sort of long
• 30:45
  held that I, when I was a kid, it was moments of jeopardy.
• 30:48
  That's what I wanted in cliffhangers.
• 30:49
  I wanted, I'm not going to let you stop me now.
• 30:52
  I wanted Ace being surrounded by Daleks and remembrance of the
• 30:55
  Daleks. You know, I wanted those
• 30:57
  cliffhangers because those are the most exciting ones as an
• 31:00
  adult. I'm not suggesting I've matured
• 31:02
  in any way. I prefer plot pivots now as an
• 31:05
  adult. So how this then pivots the
• 31:08
  story and? Because also there's no unlike
• 31:10
  with Ace being surrounded by Daleks, you know that she's not
• 31:13
  gonna get exterminated. There will be something happens
• 31:16
  to to stop that from happening with, with a plot pivot, you
• 31:20
  there is no way of knowing how it's going to resolve.
• 31:22
  And that is a a massive well. Something's gone horribly wrong
• 31:27
  here. That's a really disquieting
• 31:29
  image. That's what I love.
• 31:30
  I as an adult. I love the Cliff Part 2 Cliff.
• 31:34
  I got to sit your death. I think that's exactly what I
• 31:37
  should be asking you, doctor. And you really, What the hell is
• 31:40
  he doing there in the past? You know, that sort of thing.
• 31:44
  Wow. I mean, I'm not quite sure why
• 31:47
  that statue has got a monoid head.
• 31:49
  Would you like to try and find out?
• 31:50
  I guess we should. Let's do it.