Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Anthony DeRosa: Demystifying Drinking Water Regulation | Make Water Work 022

Transcript

Anthony DeRosa: Demystifying Drinking Water Regulation | Make Water Work 022 · Make Water Work Podcast

• 0:00
  Some people that know me knew I grew up
• 0:01
  in New York. I don't mind telling the
• 0:03
  story. I guess this is kind of a fun
• 0:04
  one. Is the only time I ever had a run
• 0:06
  in with authorities. And then we kind of
• 0:10
  all realized that's a cop coming towards
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  us. We got to get out of here. This will
• 0:15
  be flying. Yeah. I'll make your your
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  podcast a little spicy here in the
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  beginning.
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  >> Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast
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  where we dive into the people, ideas,
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  and innovation shaping the future of
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  water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
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  and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
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  the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
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  insights from hundreds of incredible
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  conversations we've had over the past 9
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  years with inspiring and energizing
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  leaders in the water industry. Each
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  week, we share those stories and
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  conversations with entrepreneurs,
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  community champions, and innovators who
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  are making water work for everyone.
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  Whether you're a water professional, a
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  curious innovator, or simply passionate
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  about our most precious resource, this
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  podcast is for you. Let's get started.
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  Well, hello and welcome everyone to this
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  week's Make Waterwork podcast that
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  celebrates the people innovating and
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  serving in the water uh water industry.
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  So, Isaac, I think we've got a great
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  show today.
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  >> We do. I'm very excited that we have
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  Anthony D. Rosa, the executive director
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  of the Association for Drinking Water
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  Administrators.
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  >> Was close.
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  >> Well, we normally just say ASDA.
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  >> ASDA. Yeah.
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  >> I mean,
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  >> I I was trying
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  >> I'll say I'll say the long part.
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  >> It plays Yeah. Asda plays such a
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  critical role in in how we understand
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  drinking water policy, how um how we
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  understand how different states um
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  regulate that, what the needs of the
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  states are. And so, um, Anony's had a
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  great career at Asda, and this is going
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  to be a good conversation. It might go
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  into drinking water. It might go into,
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  um, music, heavy metal. Who knows? Um,
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  who knows what happens when we talk.
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  Right. Right, Anthony. Well, welcome to
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  the Make Waterwork podcast.
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  >> Thanks for having me, team. I'm very,
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  very, very excited to be here. Um, yeah,
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  as Isaac said, I'm Anthony D. Rosa. I'm
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  the, um, new executive director for the
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  Association of State Drinking Water
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  Administrators. ASDA.
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  >> Yeah. In DC, we've got lots of acronyms
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  and so many acronyms we tell you how to
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  pronounce them. So, we have a funy
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  as um we're uh our members are the state
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  regulators uh across the country in
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  every state uh US territory in the
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  Navajo Nation. And um we help protect
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  the water that comes out of your tap. I
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  think that's the easiest way to say it.
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  At least the least boring way to say it.
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  Um so, I'm very excited to be here. Uh,
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  I've I'm I'm a fan of the podcast. You
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  guys have absolute rock stars on the
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  podcast. So, um,
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  >> great.
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  >> I'm very honored to be asked.
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  >> Yeah. Well, we love every every guest
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  that we've had, we've um, and every
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  conversation we've had, whether they've
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  been a guest yet or not, we just find
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  that everyone has a story about how
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  water found them. So, we start every
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  episode with, "Anthony, how did water
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  find you?"
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  Oh, that is a that's an awesome
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  question, Isaac. Let me um I would say
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  so I've heard this before and a lot of
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  people have their for they're like well
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  water found me or I found water story. I
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  was really young when I started at Asma.
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  So I I started at Asma when I was 19. So
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  you know my water journey before that I
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  would say like water was interested in a
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  relationship before I was really ready
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  for it. Uh, and I was like, "Hey, water,
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  I'm young. I'm still kind of, you know,
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  doing my thing." But water kept kind of
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  finding its way um to me. And I'm trying
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  to think of all like the fun little
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  vignettes um that are safe for work to
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  share, right?
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  >> And it so it one of my earliest memories
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  was we we'll go there first, right? Um,
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  I'm at a car dealer show and my parents
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  are buying a car. It's the 80s and the
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  salesman's like, "I got to get rid of
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  the kid, right? We got to put the kit
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  someplace so we can sell these people a
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  car." And so he he's like, "I'm going to
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  show him a video in the back room
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  that'll keep him busy." And so, you
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  know, back in the 80s, he's he rolls out
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  the AV cart, you know, with the TV on
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  the cart.
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  >> Yes.
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  >> What's in this video? And I'm thinking,
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  what would you might expect, right? It's
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  going to be a video about selling cars
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  or about the features of the This dude
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  puts on a video. I will never forget
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  this water and me. And it was all about
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  water and people's relationship to
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  water. And it was incredible. And I'm
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  sitting there totally checked out cuz
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  I've got to be what like 10 years old
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  maybe going this is so boring and why
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  would I be interested in this at all? So
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  water was really trying like here and
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  I'm going water I'm not interested yet
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  you know and then you fast forward some
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  time and um some people that know me
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  knew I grew up in New York um and I do
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  like I don't mind telling the story I
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  guess this is kind of a fun one um is
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  the only time I ever had a runin with
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  authorities.
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  >> This is a podcast.
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  >> Yeah. Yeah. So this this will be flying.
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  Yeah. I'll make your your podcast a
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  little spicy here in the beginning. I'm
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  couldn't tell other stuff. Um, so I love
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  this one. So growing up in New York, um,
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  you know, my my mother laked down in
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  White Plains in Valhalla area and the
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  Kensico Dam is right there. And so
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  growing up as a teenager, we, you know,
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  we biked there, we hung out there, we
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  skated there, it was everything. Um, and
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  then when we got into mountain biking,
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  we would go around the water, which we
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  thought was a lake. Um, and there would
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  be hours of bike trails and then it
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  would dump you back out and you go home.
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  And so it was awesome. Um, so we would
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  do that all the time. And one spring
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  break I'm down there so it's a little
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  different. We would normally be, you
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  know, going out on the weekends. Um it's
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  the middle of the week. We've got a
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  bunch of dudes and we're hanging out in
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  the woods trying to figure out where
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  we're going to go and all of a sudden we
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  see this truck kind of coming down the
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  woods and we're like what's that? And
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  you know when you see something you
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  don't expect, you're kind of looking at
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  it like what is that? And then we kind
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  of all realize that's a cop coming
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  towards us. We got to get out of here.
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  And I'm like, "Yo, if we hit the the
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  tree line, we're gone, so let's run."
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  And so we and and we go and, you know,
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  like half the group goes one way and
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  half the group goes the other. Um, I
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  love this cuz it's like it's a very
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  visual.
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  >> You can see I can I I am seeing you. I'm
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  seeing it through your eyes. Yeah.
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  >> Yeah. Yeah. So So we're we're we're
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  cruising down the woods. Um, I kind of
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  assume the cops might chase after the
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  other group of dudes, but they didn't.
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  Um, and so we're we're flying down this
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  this pathway and I think we're really in
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  the clear and you know, most of the
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  group is in front of me and I'm kind of
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  hiding out towards the back. My buddy
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  Rob is right off the right shoulder and
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  then my friend Chris is right next to me
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  and Chris is the crazy dude that she
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  sent out to do something like, "Hey, um,
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  we're going to cross that little stream.
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  Chris, you go first and check it out."
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  And if Chris dives in, gets hurt, it's
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  like, "We're going to go around." Um, so
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  he's looking at me and I'm on my bike
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  and he's on his bike and he we're making
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  eye contact and he's like,
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  >> "We're doing it, Tony. We're running
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  away from the cops and I'm like, you
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  know, stick with me. I'll take care of
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  it." You know, I think it's all cool,
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  but what I don't realize is that, you
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  know, something horrible has just
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  happened. And
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  >> Chris's bike has been like just ripped
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  out from underneath him. And it's kind
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  of this Looney Tunes moment where I'm
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  looking at him and he's falling. It goes
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  from this excitement to a concerned face
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  and he just slams the ground and just
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  wipes out. And I'm like, "Oh my god."
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  And I stop and I'm like, "Chris, you
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  know, are you okay? Get up." And as as
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  I'm dealing with this, my buddy Rob
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  stops and we see the officers are now
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  running down the trail towards us. And
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  I'm like, "All right, let me just I'll
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  talk with them. Everything's cool. We're
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  not running from these from these
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  dudes." Um, and they started like
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  questioning us about swimming in the
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  water. And we're like, "No, dude. We
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  grew up in New York. You don't swim in
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  water." That's crazy. Like we're just
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  here, you know, riding our bikes and
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  doing our thing. And they were super
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  oppressed on that and we couldn't figure
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  out why. And so they took us, you know,
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  and our parents had to go pick us up and
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  everything like that. And it took me
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  years. It wasn't until I started at Asda
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  that I fully appreciated that's a
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  reservoir.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> And we were like, we didn't know we were
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  doing anything wrong. He's like, we
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  watched you guys throw your bikes over
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  the 12t fence. Like that was your
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  indication that you shouldn't be there.
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  I was like, yeah, but fences are just
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  suggestions. Yeah.
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  >> Um, so yeah, it was looking back at
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  that, it's hilarious that, you know,
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  again,
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  >> we hung out, we were all there, it's
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  this park with no real appreciation or
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  concept for what it was. So again, water
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  trying to make that connection with me.
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  >> Now, did that record did that record
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  come back to haunt you when you were
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  interviewing for this?
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  >> I didn't actually an arrest I was going
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  to say.
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  >> I don't know. Can Can Anthony be the
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  executive director?
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  >> Look, look at what he did at the
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  reservoir. This time at the reservoir,
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  >> I did nothing. I did nothing at that
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  reservoir. I was protecting that
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  reservoir.
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  >> Oh my gosh. Well, yes.
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  >> Yeah, we were just riding bikes. So, I I
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  I think um where water finally landed.
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  Yeah.
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  >> Was know I I got into college and I was
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  really interested in environmental
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  policy. Uh, and just being like the mid
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  to late 90s, that was kind of the niche
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  that I wanted to to kind of fall into.
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  Um, and again, growing up in New York,
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  lots of geology, lots of water, lots of
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  outdoor activities. So, you have that
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  connection. Um, but I wanted to work in
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  the air program for EPA and they were
• 9:32
  not hiring. And so, I was kind of
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  stumbling around trying to figure out
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  what I was going to do. A buddy of mine
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  was the intern at ASDA. He goes, you
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  know, I'm going to leave, but this job,
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  it's like everything you talk about
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  doing, like, you know, you're you're
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  passionate about policy and getting
• 9:46
  involved in in kind of an environmental
• 9:48
  space, you want to work with EPA, this
• 9:51
  could be a thing for you. So, you know,
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  I reluctantly gave him my my resume and
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  and went for the interview. And I I I
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  thought AS would be this huge
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  organization. Um, so I was shocked it
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  was just like six people.
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  >> Uh, and and I really had to reflect on
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  that. I was like, what am I looking for?
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  But I thought, you know, there's almost
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  like this strange thesis like playing
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  out in front of me. Uh I was very
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  interested at the time of the
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  intersection of kind of technology and
• 10:18
  public engagement in government.
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  >> Um I even participated in what you would
• 10:23
  call today like a hackathon. Oh yeah.
• 10:25
  Where they brought some students from it
• 10:27
  was uh CQ quarterly. Okay. or you know
• 10:30
  they have they used to have the lookbook
• 10:31
  and so they came out and we did like a
• 10:33
  Saturday Sunday thing where they said if
• 10:36
  the internet worked um how could you use
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  it
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  >> to engage you know politically and and
• 10:42
  we created this um concept of of an
• 10:46
  online form you put in your zip code it
• 10:48
  gives you your state local federal
• 10:50
  representatives what's your issue and it
• 10:52
  kind of populates a letter that you were
• 10:54
  able to send to them I believe that we
• 10:56
  built the foundations of all the tools
• 10:58
  that exist a day for engagement. Um, but
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  that was, you know, that was really hot
• 11:02
  on my brain. And here was ASD with this
• 11:05
  small organization with this amazing
• 11:07
  mission.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> No technology. And I'm thinking,
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  >> can I modernize the organization in such
• 11:14
  a way to allow them to function like a
• 11:18
  much larger, better resourced
• 11:20
  organization?
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  >> And so I just went to work and and it
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  was, you know, good artists borrow,
• 11:26
  great artists steal. It was like if if
• 11:28
  another organization did something,
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  >> I was going to do that. You got blogs, I
• 11:32
  got blogs. You got a cool website, I'm
• 11:33
  going to do that. You're doing this
• 11:35
  thing, I'm going to do that thing. And
• 11:37
  then I'm going to push even further.
• 11:39
  >> Um,
• 11:40
  >> and that was a really exciting space to
• 11:42
  be in. Uh, cuz you're kind of growing
• 11:44
  with an organization. You're changing
• 11:46
  the way the organization works, the way
• 11:48
  it interfaces with their members, the
• 11:50
  way their members are able to interface
• 11:51
  with each other. Um, and that's been
• 11:54
  kind of my
• 11:56
  my like mission for for a lot of my time
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  at ASPO.
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  >> So that's that's kind of how I found and
• 12:02
  then and then yeah how many years? Yeah.
• 12:04
  How how many years?
• 12:05
  >> 28 years I think this year. So I was 19
• 12:08
  when I started. I was still in America.
• 12:10
  >> That's incredible. That's amazing. Yes.
• 12:13
  and you and and it's you've always
• 12:15
  started to the the job has kind of
• 12:17
  reinvented around you and as I mean
• 12:20
  actually walk us through some of those
• 12:22
  milestones to your point from when you
• 12:24
  started to today I think that might be
• 12:26
  really eye opening for us all.
• 12:28
  >> Yeah, I mean that's that's that's crazy.
• 12:29
  I mean you start as as an admin doing
• 12:33
  things that people don't even do
• 12:34
  anymore. I mean like phone breakouts,
• 12:36
  things like that. Like real
• 12:37
  >> what phone breakouts?
• 12:39
  >> Yeah.
• 12:39
  >> What is what is a phone breakout? like
• 12:42
  going through the phone calls to
• 12:43
  categorize like where like are these are
• 12:47
  these project calls that need to be
• 12:49
  charged to a project or like really
• 12:51
  ridiculous stuff that you would just
• 12:53
  automate with software now.
• 12:54
  >> Um and and that's exactly how I worked
• 12:56
  was
• 12:57
  >> you know I call it kind of the
• 12:58
  intelligent discontent. You want to get
• 13:00
  to a space where you're frustrated
• 13:02
  enough
• 13:02
  >> Yeah.
• 13:03
  >> to put your smarts towards a solution
• 13:05
  and and just fix the problem. So
• 13:07
  automation was always the the thing for
• 13:09
  me. Um, so yeah, in the beginning it was
• 13:12
  a lot of just admin work and observing
• 13:14
  how we worked.
• 13:15
  >> Yeah.
• 13:15
  >> And then I I really want to say it it
• 13:18
  took a while. It wasn't until like 2009
• 13:21
  2010.
• 13:22
  >> So almost 10 years
• 13:24
  >> it really clicked. It was about it was
• 13:26
  about that time. Yeah.
• 13:27
  >> Right. And it was I was doing lots of
• 13:29
  different things. It was admin work. I
• 13:30
  got involved in data management. Okay.
• 13:32
  Um so I was learning a lot about
• 13:33
  drinking water quality data, learning a
• 13:35
  lot about the safe drinking water
• 13:36
  information system and its problems.
• 13:39
  uh how we didn't really have adequate
• 13:42
  data solutions.
• 13:44
  >> Mhm.
• 13:44
  >> And
• 13:45
  >> um but that was also my music time, you
• 13:47
  know, and and so I understand I was
• 13:49
  young.
• 13:49
  >> Yeah.
• 13:50
  >> And I was working and I was playing a
• 13:52
  lot of music around that time. Um
• 13:54
  >> so that that 2009 always hits because
• 13:57
  that's when I it was right after a tour
• 13:59
  and I we stopped playing for a little
• 14:01
  bit and I had a lot of energy.
• 14:03
  >> Oh wow.
• 14:04
  >> You don't seem like you have a lot of
• 14:06
  energy though.
• 14:06
  >> No, not shocking to me. sometime. So, I
• 14:09
  had all this energy and I was getting
• 14:12
  very frustrated with going home and
• 14:14
  essentially like it was like you time
• 14:16
  travel into the future when you go home
• 14:18
  and then when I walked into my office I
• 14:20
  was time traveling into the past
• 14:22
  >> and you know just like for example I
• 14:24
  couldn't crack this nut of connecting my
• 14:28
  members with each other. Why was that a
• 14:30
  problem? But I can go home and play a
• 14:32
  video game on an Xbox with people from
• 14:35
  all over the world. Like it's nothing.
• 14:37
  And we're chatting and we're seeing each
• 14:38
  other. We have all of this technology in
• 14:40
  place. I was like, do I just need to buy
• 14:41
  an Xbox for all my members? Like, and so
• 14:44
  it just
• 14:45
  >> made me think, yeah, probably. Right.
• 14:47
  >> But it made me stop and think like, no
• 14:50
  one is going to walk into my office
• 14:52
  >> and tell me to do
• 14:54
  >> the the right thing, right? No one's
• 14:56
  going to say, Megan, Isaac, I want you
• 14:59
  to go and disrupt the system today.
• 15:02
  >> Yeah.
• 15:02
  >> I want I want you to turn everything
• 15:05
  that I expect about work on its head.
• 15:07
  And
• 15:08
  >> you know, it no one's going to tell me
• 15:10
  to do that.
• 15:11
  >> And I'm just sitting around kind of
• 15:14
  throwing pennies at this thing going,
• 15:16
  >> "This doesn't work well. I don't like
• 15:17
  this. And these people aren't going to
• 15:18
  listen to me."
• 15:19
  >> Rather than just taking a step back and
• 15:21
  saying,
• 15:22
  >> "Put a plan together.
• 15:24
  and start moving forward, you know, and
• 15:26
  and and work through the constraints you
• 15:29
  have, work through the process.
• 15:30
  >> That's when I started learning a lot
• 15:32
  about change management and all of the
• 15:35
  work that you really need to do cuz I
• 15:37
  even went into that process very naive
• 15:40
  and assuming if I'm going to build a
• 15:42
  solution that's great for you guys,
• 15:44
  you're going to love it. And that wasn't
• 15:47
  the case. And so that was shocking to
• 15:49
  me. You mean
• 15:51
  >> if they build it, they may not come,
• 15:53
  right?
• 15:54
  >> They may not come. It really resonated
• 15:56
  when I I moved us into Google Apps. I
• 15:58
  bet tested Google Apps.
• 16:00
  >> Um what I don't know what they call it,
• 16:02
  Google Workplace now,
• 16:03
  >> but when it when it was coming out,
• 16:06
  >> this concept of having this like unified
• 16:09
  communications tool was everything that
• 16:11
  I wanted. I had written something like
• 16:13
  that when I started at ASA that this was
• 16:15
  a goal of mine. So this Google project
• 16:18
  was really exciting. I beta tested it. I
• 16:21
  went through this whole change process
• 16:23
  to get it implemented at Asda and oh
• 16:26
  man, I thought my boss was going to fire
• 16:28
  me. They were so bummed. It it like
• 16:30
  eliminated operating costs, increased
• 16:33
  our capacity. I mean, we had like 10
• 16:35
  megabyte shared mailbox.
• 16:38
  >> Yeah.
• 16:38
  >> Prior. And then we jumped into 25 gigs,
• 16:41
  online access, full cloud networking.
• 16:44
  bay the staff with pitchforks and and
• 16:46
  and torches down to my office.
• 16:49
  >> So that's that's your change management.
• 16:50
  You move their cheese and
• 16:53
  >> Yes. I I just wow that metaphor is such
• 16:58
  a good metaphor to to I feel like our
• 17:01
  industry right now. You know what I
• 17:03
  mean? The I have this clipboard and this
• 17:05
  clipboard has my monthly report. This is
• 17:08
  how I've done it for 25 years and you
• 17:13
  know over my dead body. Are you gonna
• 17:15
  put an iPad in my hands? Right.
• 17:18
  >> That's that's it. I had when I was
• 17:20
  working on the blog project, we were
• 17:23
  doing newsletters and then those had to
• 17:25
  go to a a publisher and so it took more
• 17:29
  than a month in some cases to put
• 17:31
  together a monthly newsletter or not a
• 17:33
  publisher. I mean they had to go to a
• 17:34
  printing house.
• 17:34
  >> Oh yeah. So I you'd have to compose all
• 17:37
  the content, organize it all. I would
• 17:39
  lay it out in like in design or
• 17:41
  something like that, push that off to a
• 17:43
  printing house,
• 17:44
  >> print it, bring it back, physically mail
• 17:47
  it to everyone. So I'm like, we're done
• 17:49
  with this
• 17:49
  >> and hope that they read it.
• 17:52
  >> Gosh.
• 17:52
  >> Yeah.
• 17:53
  >> What started happening was, you know, we
• 17:55
  weren't even getting we were pulling
• 17:56
  articles out because it took too long.
• 17:58
  >> We can't get approval for that article.
• 18:00
  We have to get the newsletter out. So, I
• 18:01
  used all of those bad experiences to
• 18:03
  capitalize and say, "Blogs will
• 18:05
  eliminate this." And I went to a meeting
• 18:08
  and I swear, Megan, they I had someone
• 18:11
  stand up. I became very close friends
• 18:13
  with this person, but I again never get
• 18:15
  this out of my head. I presented on this
• 18:17
  amazing tool and this person stood and
• 18:19
  said, "I will not read your newsletter.
• 18:21
  If you stop printing it and sending it
• 18:23
  to me, I'm done reading your newsletter.
• 18:26
  I'll not read it online. I don't believe
• 18:28
  in this. I don't need this. everything
• 18:30
  worked fine before you're fixing a
• 18:31
  problem we don't have.
• 18:32
  >> And I was blown away. And you know, you
• 18:34
  think about that now in like the 2025
• 18:36
  universe, somebody standing up being
• 18:38
  like, I'm not going to read an article
• 18:40
  online. Are you crazy?
• 18:42
  >> Are you crazy?
• 18:42
  >> And that's where we are in some sense.
• 18:45
  >> Yeah.
• 18:45
  >> Well, let's talk about some of the
• 18:47
  things um that are within the Azdawa
• 18:50
  community. Um the things that that state
• 18:52
  regulators deal with. So like what are
• 18:55
  some of the things that um that you see
• 18:57
  are pressures on them that are
• 19:00
  opportunities for improvement um and
• 19:03
  what's kind of led to that the pain of
• 19:05
  of regulation?
• 19:07
  >> I mean there's a lot you know I mean
• 19:09
  making touching up on monthly operating
• 19:10
  ports you know there are a couple of
• 19:12
  states building their own tools. This
• 19:14
  has been a conversation on and off with
• 19:16
  how do we solve this problem? Can we
• 19:18
  solve it? There have been a couple of
• 19:20
  private companies that have taken shots
• 19:21
  at it. Um, and now I have kind of a
• 19:24
  multi-state uh effort going on that's
• 19:27
  funded through an exchange network grant
• 19:29
  to build kind of a module and see what
• 19:31
  that looks like. Um, to create something
• 19:33
  that could be shared with all the
• 19:34
  states.
• 19:35
  >> There's a lot of fresh or I want there's
• 19:38
  a lot of complexity in doing it.
• 19:39
  >> Yeah.
• 19:39
  >> I think the hardest thing and you guys
• 19:41
  will know this firsthand when you're
• 19:42
  trying to create solutions for the
• 19:45
  states, it's the variability in business
• 19:49
  practices and approaches. your processes
• 19:51
  are going to be different.
• 19:52
  >> And so when we're talking about monthly
• 19:54
  operating reports, everyone wants their
• 19:56
  own form.
• 19:57
  >> Everyone wants their own,
• 19:59
  >> you know, little creature question,
• 20:01
  >> their own nomenclature, their own mark
• 20:03
  when
• 20:05
  >> Yes.
• 20:06
  >> 52 and change
• 20:08
  >> snowflakes,
• 20:09
  >> which Yeah. No, I mean, listen, I was in
• 20:12
  a meeting um right well about a month
• 20:15
  ago and had someone say, "Well, we just
• 20:18
  kind of let anybody report all of this
• 20:20
  data." I'm like, "Well, do you need this
• 20:22
  other data?" No, but it would just it's
• 20:25
  just nice to have. and and it's just,
• 20:27
  you know, it it's if you're not going to
• 20:30
  do anything materially with it, then the
• 20:33
  only thing you're doing is creating a
• 20:36
  backlog of unstructured data that you
• 20:39
  can do nothing with that is just taking
• 20:42
  up storage and eating up. You know, it's
• 20:44
  just, you know, I I feel like it's the
• 20:46
  the data management practices, the
• 20:48
  normalization that that is still very
• 20:51
  very immature in our industry. the whole
• 20:53
  notion of I need to normalize data and I
• 20:55
  need to wire down, you know, uh, excuse
• 20:58
  me, uh, lock down fields and I need to,
• 21:00
  >> we did this with the inventories,
• 21:02
  Anthony, like the variations of lead
• 21:05
  >> that we had to code just to make sure we
• 21:08
  had, we captured all of the different
• 21:10
  scenarios, but yet kind of nailed it
• 21:12
  down enough where we could actually
• 21:14
  report on it was just a little crazy.
• 21:16
  It's like, can't we just all get behind
• 21:18
  L A?
• 21:20
  >> No, it's very true. I mean I mean you
• 21:22
  you really hit on some of the the
• 21:26
  challenges. I mean it's
• 21:30
  >> I think what what we're going to see
• 21:32
  through some of the modernization
• 21:33
  processes that we're going through and
• 21:34
  and I see the sector going through a
• 21:36
  modernization and and first I mean let's
• 21:38
  get some context here right
• 21:40
  >> STDWIS was built 30 years ago. It's
• 21:43
  crippling along. So we're all relying on
• 21:46
  a data system that's not fully not just
• 21:50
  not fully data managing the whole
• 21:52
  program in the way that we need it. It's
• 21:54
  not a tool. So it's not really helping
• 21:56
  me speed up and do my job better, right?
• 21:58
  It's not giving me any superpowers. So
• 22:00
  it it greatly needs to modernize. As
• 22:02
  we're moving through that, I think we're
• 22:04
  in a time where expectations are also
• 22:06
  changing. You know, we're seeing
• 22:07
  different technology opportunities come
• 22:09
  out. People have different expectations
• 22:11
  of what software should do. What types
• 22:13
  of information do I need or should I
• 22:16
  have readily available in order to make
• 22:17
  the decisions I need faster, more
• 22:20
  effectively, all those things that's
• 22:22
  going to start to really push us in a
• 22:24
  cool place when there's this just
• 22:27
  greater generational, you know, and I
• 22:29
  say that not in terms of age, but in
• 22:31
  terms of like people coming into the
• 22:33
  sector having influence. um this sort of
• 22:36
  generational push that the data is
• 22:39
  inadequate, the systems are inadequate,
• 22:41
  we can't answer the questions that we
• 22:43
  need, we need better tools. And I think
• 22:45
  that those kind of slop data collection
• 22:47
  processes when
• 22:49
  >> slop I love that.
• 22:50
  >> It makes sense, right? If if I can have
• 22:53
  I have I have data on my network since
• 22:55
  1998.
• 22:57
  >> Do I need all of that?
• 22:59
  >> Well, yeah, I'm going to train AI and
• 23:00
  all of that and that's going to be
• 23:01
  wonderful. But the reality is is that
• 23:04
  it's a luxury that I have all that data.
• 23:06
  If I was moving and and paying to
• 23:08
  maintain that in the cloud,
• 23:10
  >> you guarantee I would be going through
• 23:11
  that data and making sure that what I
• 23:13
  was maintaining, moving and paying for
• 23:16
  was only what I needed. And I think as
• 23:18
  you know, privacy agencies and everyone
• 23:20
  start to move into these more modern
• 23:22
  data flows, it's a conversation we're
• 23:24
  having now.
• 23:24
  >> Yeah.
• 23:25
  >> How much data
• 23:27
  >> do we want to bring with us? And then as
• 23:29
  we're moving forward, you know, at what
• 23:32
  point are we going to start really
• 23:33
  thinking about the data that we need to
• 23:36
  start answering questions and it becomes
• 23:38
  easier to get, why not get it?
• 23:40
  >> I get it. And um I was going to just say
• 23:42
  really for the appreciation for the
• 23:43
  folks who may not understand what we're
• 23:45
  talking about right right now just kind
• 23:47
  of a 101 of SIDZ is the federal database
• 23:52
  of all drinking water information that
• 23:55
  gets rolled up by the state through
• 23:57
  various regulations. So hold me honest
• 23:59
  Anthony I want to trying to describe it
• 24:01
  like
• 24:01
  >> I'll say right now it's it's there's two
• 24:03
  systems and that's part of the thing
• 24:04
  with the modernization. So states have
• 24:06
  their own version of crisis and then
• 24:08
  there's the federal component as well.
• 24:10
  >> What you're finding in the in the
• 24:11
  federal data set is a subset of the data
• 24:14
  that's being housed maintained and
• 24:17
  worked with at the state may you know
• 24:19
  because they they might be more
• 24:20
  stringent than EPA they may have more
• 24:22
  programs in play than even what SIGWIS
• 24:24
  is maintaining. M
• 24:26
  >> u so the state data universe is actually
• 24:29
  where the wealth of knowledge in
• 24:31
  drinking water is.
• 24:33
  >> You know again part of that
• 24:34
  modernization that excites me
• 24:36
  >> is you know if I could just simplify
• 24:39
  everything down to a single wish it's
• 24:40
  like I want the time when I can just
• 24:43
  assemble a national dashboard
• 24:45
  >> and I can easily draw in data sources
• 24:48
  from all my members. Um that seems very
• 24:51
  plausible future and and kind of that
• 24:53
  that new
• 24:56
  storytelling around data. I think that's
• 24:58
  the new phase of data work that we're
• 25:00
  moving into now. It's not just how we
• 25:02
  collect or the importance and power of
• 25:04
  data. Um it's how are we now leveraging
• 25:09
  massive volumes of data to tell more
• 25:12
  complex and nuance stories.
• 25:15
  >> Exactly. And I think I think that does
• 25:17
  kind of lead into that role that ASDO
• 25:20
  plays in helping um helping states
• 25:24
  navigate the balance between federal
• 25:27
  expectations and the on the ground
• 25:29
  realities. So like like I I would love
• 25:32
  to talk a little bit about like from a
• 25:35
  federal policy level the the things that
• 25:37
  are changing um um how is that working
• 25:40
  in conjunction or against? um what's the
• 25:43
  what's the on on the ground reality? Um
• 25:46
  because there's more things getting
• 25:47
  regulated, it's getting harder. Um and
• 25:50
  then states are left to implement um
• 25:52
  things.
• 25:53
  >> You need 30 year old tools. That's what
• 25:55
  I heard.
• 25:56
  >> Yeah. I I mean I think that's that's the
• 25:58
  answer, right? The answer is we you know
• 26:00
  the the sectors are growing ever
• 26:02
  complex. Um you know I think you even
• 26:05
  you look at what's being asked of
• 26:07
  utilities
• 26:08
  >> you know they're
• 26:10
  staying and maintaining compliance is
• 26:12
  becoming technical work
• 26:15
  >> and so how are we
• 26:18
  >> empowering
• 26:20
  those in the sector to keep up with this
• 26:22
  complexity you know how are we doing
• 26:25
  more with so much less and you know the
• 26:27
  answer to me is we need to leverage
• 26:29
  these technology tools these are the
• 26:31
  things that give us the superpowers
• 26:32
  these are the things that increase our
• 26:33
  capacity. Um, I'm sure we're going to
• 26:35
  pivot at some point into more
• 26:37
  future-looking stuff, but I mean, at
• 26:39
  what point can we start to realize and
• 26:42
  and leverage data in a way that we're no
• 26:45
  longer reactive
• 26:46
  >> to what we're seeing in that data, but
• 26:48
  really starting to get to a space where
• 26:51
  we're proactive.
• 26:52
  >> Yeah.
• 26:52
  >> You know, I would love
• 26:55
  >> utilities to know like I talk about like
• 26:57
  like the data fingerprint before there's
• 26:59
  an MCL exceeded.
• 27:00
  >> Oh, I know, right? Can you give me a
• 27:02
  >> like you know that there's something
• 27:04
  there's got to be a data trigger
• 27:06
  >> that says Anthony you're going to have a
• 27:08
  problem and here are some things you can
• 27:10
  do to try to mitigate that.
• 27:12
  >> That's an exciting space to move towards
• 27:14
  as a sector that gets us where we're
• 27:17
  starting to really focus compliance
• 27:19
  enforcement where where it absolutely
• 27:21
  needs to be.
• 27:21
  >> Yeah.
• 27:22
  >> We're not going to be wasting time with
• 27:24
  the doing great. It just it it'll start
• 27:28
  to solve a lot of a lot of issues I
• 27:30
  think. Hm.
• 27:31
  >> Yeah. And it it kind of when I think
• 27:34
  about since you said issues, let's talk
• 27:36
  about other issues. Um there there are
• 27:39
  all these things not just the
• 27:41
  regulations from a contaminant
• 27:43
  standpoint, but there are things like um
• 27:45
  cyber security and workforce um and
• 27:48
  those kind of topics. What What do you
• 27:50
  think is keeping the um state
• 27:52
  administrators up at night? Um
• 27:55
  >> everything, right? It's like the
• 27:59
  >> it's doing more with less and that less
• 28:01
  is worth less than it was before. So
• 28:04
  it's you know it's even harder to make
• 28:06
  those resources stretch.
• 28:07
  >> I I see my members it it varies across
• 28:12
  the board. I mean I think regulatory
• 28:13
  uncertainty is a huge one that sector
• 28:16
  need to kind of come to truth with.
• 28:18
  >> Yeah. the I that we're gonna have this
• 28:21
  sort of what whatever you want to call
• 28:23
  it, whiplash, pingpong, whatever.
• 28:26
  >> You can't have
• 28:28
  freezes, rewrites, re-releases. As you
• 28:31
  look at what's happened just in the last
• 28:33
  few administration swaps, POS le in
• 28:36
  particular, um the compliance deadlines
• 28:39
  and everything aren't those don't often
• 28:42
  change and so we lose time. But more
• 28:45
  than losing time, we're messaging poorly
• 28:48
  to the sector. And I'm sure when you
• 28:51
  guys interface with utilities, you get
• 28:52
  the same, you know,
• 28:55
  >> you do. No, you do. It's okay.
• 28:57
  >> Yeah. Sometimes,
• 28:57
  >> you know, it's like, well, there's
• 28:59
  litigation going on or or aren't they
• 29:00
  going to do away with that regulation?
• 29:02
  Yeah.
• 29:02
  >> And it's it becomes alarming because you
• 29:05
  realize that that misconception is the
• 29:09
  difference between that utility being
• 29:11
  ready to be in compliance and
• 29:13
  potentially just thinking that they're
• 29:15
  okay. M so I think that's
• 29:18
  >> and understanding that sometimes
• 29:20
  regardless of what confusion is
• 29:22
  happening there can be some um ongoing
• 29:26
  data management practices that allow you
• 29:28
  to to pivot to wherever the wherever the
• 29:31
  EPA goes and and I think that's that's
• 29:34
  not a skill set that is um
• 29:37
  >> that is uh fully adopted yet by by the
• 29:40
  industry at the utility level. It's
• 29:42
  like, hey, you can say, I don't Well,
• 29:44
  what if they change it? What if they do?
• 29:46
  But you could here are things that you
• 29:48
  can do that are highly likely not to
• 29:50
  change and if and while you still have
• 29:52
  time in in your favor.
• 29:54
  >> Yeah.
• 29:55
  >> Yeah. It it it's it's definitely tough.
• 29:57
  And then I mean, you guys brought up
• 29:58
  workforce. Workforce is I think a
• 29:59
  constant concern. Um I'm always
• 30:02
  encouraged because I feel like I see a
• 30:03
  lot of young people coming in. Like when
• 30:05
  I started in drinking water, I was I
• 30:07
  definitely felt very young. Um I felt
• 30:09
  like there was like a bring the average
• 30:12
  down to maybe 62.
• 30:14
  >> Oh, almost 52. Yeah.
• 30:17
  >> There were just no young people and and
• 30:19
  now you've got tons of young people um
• 30:23
  women, all kinds of folks that are
• 30:25
  coming into water and I and I think, you
• 30:27
  know, I would I would give a nod to a
• 30:30
  lot of the the young professionals and
• 30:32
  all like the the water leadership kind
• 30:34
  of things that you see these workshops
• 30:35
  that, you know, AWAs or the Wes are
• 30:38
  putting on. um that I think is having a
• 30:41
  really good positive impact on bringing
• 30:44
  folks in. But at the same time, you
• 30:46
  know, here in DC, we just had a massive
• 30:49
  um shakeup in the federal government
• 30:51
  where a lot of people that had just come
• 30:53
  to DC to get jobs at federal agencies,
• 30:56
  you know, lost those jobs. And you know,
• 30:59
  it's yet to be seen. Is that gonna have
• 31:01
  a chilling effect a little for some time
• 31:04
  on some of those, you know,
• 31:06
  >> like people like me who are super
• 31:07
  energetic coming out of college and want
• 31:09
  to get working at EPA
• 31:11
  >> maybe thinking maybe I should go to
• 31:13
  private.
• 31:14
  >> Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair. I
• 31:16
  mean, I I Yeah. And I I mean I think
• 31:18
  that whiplash that whiplash effect of
• 31:22
  where the reggg's actually going to land
• 31:25
  creates a level of skepticism
• 31:28
  and and maybe it's like well this isn't
• 31:30
  the job I signed up for. I I signed up
• 31:33
  to manage this you know multi-deade lead
• 31:35
  service line replacement project. Well
• 31:37
  who knows if that funding is going to
• 31:38
  come. So I'm going to go and do
• 31:40
  something else. I'm going to go to
• 31:41
  energy where something's moving faster.
• 31:42
  Right? It just seems like there's been a
• 31:44
  lot of fits and starts lately and no pun
• 31:47
  intended, but you know, we just need to
• 31:49
  be on a flow.
• 31:50
  >> Yeah.
• 31:50
  >> Yeah. And I I do think if there is if
• 31:52
  there was like a constant flow of
• 31:55
  momentum of all of the projects that
• 31:57
  just needs to get done, I do think
• 31:59
  that's when you get people staying. You
• 32:01
  get people like working on meaningful
• 32:03
  projects like you know there it
• 32:06
  >> Yeah,
• 32:07
  >> I think we're transitioning into some of
• 32:09
  that. Yeah, I mean, you know, if I if
• 32:10
  I'm in a my crystal ball has been
• 32:12
  >> broken for at least a good year and a
• 32:14
  half.
• 32:15
  >> Um, but I'm trying to repair it again.
• 32:17
  And, you know, I think,
• 32:20
  >> you know, if if we look at the last like
• 32:22
  couple of years, I think, you know, 50,
• 32:25
  there's been this very heady
• 32:27
  conversation surrounding kind of where
• 32:30
  we're going
• 32:31
  >> with regg far into the future
• 32:33
  >> or where we've been
• 32:34
  >> and and kind of how we got here. And I
• 32:37
  think we're very we're right at the time
• 32:39
  if not overdue for
• 32:43
  maybe a retrospective
• 32:44
  >> and and and more than that I I would say
• 32:48
  at some point I think those very heady
• 32:49
  conversations around is the Safe
• 32:52
  Drinking Water Act effective? Should we
• 32:53
  make changes to it? Is our is our
• 32:55
  program effective? I think it's going to
• 32:57
  start to slowly settle down to the
• 32:58
  ground and there's going to be some real
• 33:02
  conversations about should we be making
• 33:05
  regulatory changes. I mean, we're moving
• 33:07
  into the anniversary of the 96
• 33:09
  amendments.
• 33:10
  >> Yeah. Right.
• 33:10
  >> I could, you know, this conversation is
• 33:12
  going to start to ground itself
• 33:14
  >> and I think at some point over the next
• 33:17
  couple of years
• 33:19
  >> and maybe even driven by some of the
• 33:21
  trends that we're seeing, right? I mean,
• 33:22
  water use and the circular water economy
• 33:24
  is going to
• 33:25
  >> make us think a lot about the interplay
• 33:26
  between the Clean Water Act and the safe
• 33:28
  drinking water.
• 33:29
  >> Yeah.
• 33:30
  >> Is it worth melting?
• 33:32
  >> And and and
• 33:33
  >> should we have a water act? I don't
• 33:35
  think that's crazy to say out loud. Um
• 33:37
  maybe it is. Uh but I I think that
• 33:40
  that's one trend that I see that's kind
• 33:42
  of exciting.
• 33:44
  >> Love that. I've not heard that one yet
• 33:45
  and I love that.
• 33:46
  >> Yeah.
• 33:47
  >> I mean, just it's reading the tea leaves
• 33:48
  of of what's going, right? Yeah. you
• 33:51
  know, Allan, one of the last things he
• 33:53
  was working, I think he's still he's
• 33:54
  doing a
• 33:55
  >> he's doing a chapter for I think Manny
• 33:58
  or something on
• 33:59
  >> on the act and there's just been so much
• 34:02
  talk about the act. We did a bunch of
• 34:03
  these retrospective panels and I'm like
• 34:06
  >> that's all hitting to me. That's all
• 34:08
  very, you know, this is what we're
• 34:10
  thinking about.
• 34:11
  >> When does that start really getting down
• 34:13
  to all right, we're starting to see some
• 34:15
  interest on the hill. We're starting to
• 34:17
  see some real conversations happen. I I
• 34:19
  think that's going to happen soon. The
• 34:22
  other piece that I think we're moving
• 34:23
  into that's exciting is implementation.
• 34:26
  And so we're talking about all this
• 34:27
  regulatory flip-flopping and all this
• 34:29
  kind of uncertainty, but that is going
• 34:31
  to pass. And these regs are going to
• 34:34
  move from this kind of pre, you know,
• 34:37
  implementation universe into well now
• 34:40
  we've got to work on this.
• 34:41
  >> Yeah. Right. Yep. Time to execute.
• 34:43
  >> All of the conversations we're having
• 34:45
  where
• 34:46
  >> like the letting copper rule is more
• 34:48
  than just inventories.
• 34:51
  >> But every conversation is about
• 34:52
  inventories. Massively complex rule
• 34:57
  >> coming at us,
• 34:57
  >> right?
• 34:58
  >> Yeah.
• 34:58
  >> And again,
• 34:59
  >> are we prepared from a data management
• 35:00
  perspective and all this other, you
• 35:02
  know? So, so yeah, I I think that's the
• 35:04
  other kind of exciting thing. So, we've
• 35:05
  got this sort of opportunity for
• 35:06
  regulatory change at a at a at a
• 35:10
  foundational level. We're going to be
• 35:12
  pivoting our focus and activity towards
• 35:14
  implementation of all these rules even
• 35:17
  in a you know with an administration
• 35:20
  doesn't want to be regg heavy
• 35:22
  >> we're still very we're still very reggg
• 35:24
  busy
• 35:25
  >> right we just got chlorate we're going
• 35:26
  to have we're going to have CCR we're
• 35:28
  going to have POS we're going to have
• 35:30
  lead um
• 35:31
  >> yeah it's a great point
• 35:33
  >> it's it's one of the unique things I
• 35:35
  feel like about water in particular is
• 35:37
  that because it's foundational to every
• 35:39
  industry
• 35:41
  You can't get away. Like there's
• 35:44
  there's very little you can do to
• 35:49
  not take it seriously and say, "Well, we
• 35:51
  do need to understand how we're going to
• 35:52
  use it and how we value it and how how
• 35:55
  it impacts our lives and and um
• 35:58
  >> it's very bipartisan for the most part."
• 36:00
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:01
  >> I mean, and let's sneak in data center,
• 36:03
  right? Usage, right? So, there's there
• 36:06
  >> we're waiting for it. I love it.
• 36:08
  >> Oh, yeah.
• 36:09
  I got you. I mean, and that's that's
• 36:11
  that's the hot topic now, right? Is so
• 36:13
  you know, water use data centers and and
• 36:16
  whatever connection we want to make to
• 36:17
  AI and you know, I I think as I've been
• 36:20
  kind of navigating this space a little
• 36:22
  bit um it's fascinating to me. Uh and I
• 36:25
  have all the thoughts in the world. We
• 36:26
  could probably do a totally separate
• 36:28
  podcast just on Anony's thoughts about
• 36:32
  AI and then the connection with data
• 36:33
  center growth. Thinking about data
• 36:35
  centers in particular, I I think AI has
• 36:37
  a lot of potential for for our sector in
• 36:39
  many ways. Data center thing I tend to
• 36:43
  think is is sort of this blip problem
• 36:46
  >> and I say that because there's going to
• 36:49
  be this huge push for data centers. Now
• 36:52
  there's this new kind of awareness
• 36:55
  awakening that hey this might impact us.
• 36:58
  Um I think all of the you know the
• 37:00
  sector is kind of getting around to
• 37:01
  creating a lot of great panels and
• 37:03
  discussion around what are the
• 37:04
  opportunities what are the challenges
• 37:06
  what are the concerns um not all data
• 37:09
  centers are created equal.
• 37:11
  >> Mhm.
• 37:11
  >> So when we're trying to evaluate that
• 37:13
  water use
• 37:14
  >> we've had that conversation
• 37:15
  >> very challenging to do any type of fair
• 37:18
  analysis. Uh, and then you look at the
• 37:21
  bigs, you know, your Amazon's, Google's,
• 37:23
  Metas, folks like that, you know, when
• 37:25
  they're building these massive campuses,
• 37:27
  it's it's built into
• 37:30
  the value proposition for them to bring
• 37:32
  down the costs of operation.
• 37:35
  >> And so,
• 37:36
  >> they're really the ones that I see
• 37:38
  leading the charge in terms of how are
• 37:41
  we going to reduce water use? How are we
• 37:42
  going to set different best practices
• 37:45
  for that? So, I I really think there's
• 37:47
  there's an opportunity and a and a
• 37:48
  necessity to partner with them to better
• 37:51
  understand how how this can play out.
• 37:55
  Um, there may need to be a time when we
• 37:58
  understand the difference between, well,
• 38:00
  this is an acceptable water use and this
• 38:03
  is not an acceptable water use.
• 38:06
  >> Um, and I'm not sure how that would work
• 38:07
  out. I mean, you know, that that's
• 38:09
  that's the the question,
• 38:11
  >> but it is, but it it is it's coming up.
• 38:12
  up and in fact we just did a podcast
• 38:14
  we're talking about the discrepancy not
• 38:16
  every data center is created equal that
• 38:19
  in the design phase um of what they are
• 38:21
  seeing this is an expert kind of um
• 38:23
  doing innovation across the space they
• 38:25
  said uh one data center had like a
• 38:27
  hundred folks focused on the water use
• 38:30
  issue and then the other data center
• 38:32
  that they were collecting data from had
• 38:33
  two
• 38:34
  >> and you know and it's just like totally
• 38:36
  different you and it's just like there's
• 38:38
  got to be some sort of level of
• 38:39
  standards of which all data centers are
• 38:42
  going to beholden to when it comes to
• 38:43
  like there's no reason why there
• 38:45
  shouldn't be, but it's going to be
• 38:46
  fascinating to see how this plays out.
• 38:48
  >> Yeah. I I I think it's the you know,
• 38:50
  when you look at water use efficiency
• 38:52
  numbers, that seems to be the well,
• 38:54
  that's our
• 38:54
  >> proprietary
• 38:56
  >> and that's that's the one area where I
• 38:59
  wonder I wonder if that's going to be
• 39:02
  the focus for us. You know, what do we
• 39:04
  really need to know about a data center
• 39:06
  coming in to make those choices? And if
• 39:09
  I'm being totally honest, I'm not sure
• 39:11
  it's going to be our fight. Um I I
• 39:13
  really, if you're looking, you know,
• 39:15
  across the the data center news feed, um
• 39:20
  it's communities.
• 39:21
  >> I think these are getting
• 39:22
  >> hit very local. This is a very local
• 39:24
  >> the big like nimi push like not in my
• 39:26
  backyard. Um you know, I'm in Virginia
• 39:29
  and when you're driving down I remember
• 39:30
  like 20 years ago driving out to Reston.
• 39:33
  Um, we used to practice at my buddy's
• 39:35
  parents house out there and that was
• 39:37
  like it was just the toll road out to
• 39:38
  nothing, right? There's nothing out
• 39:40
  there. Um, even I remember we'd leave at
• 39:42
  like 10:00 at night. The toll booths
• 39:44
  were no longer had people in it. You had
• 39:46
  to have a credit card to get home on the
• 39:48
  toll road. And that was first for me. I
• 39:50
  thought that was really weird.
• 39:51
  >> Um, but over time you start seeing all
• 39:53
  these data centers and everything
• 39:54
  cropping up.
• 39:56
  >> No big deal, right? very different from
• 39:59
  building one in my literal backyard,
• 40:01
  which is really what you're starting to
• 40:03
  see now. And I think that
• 40:06
  >> that is going to become the thing that
• 40:09
  starts to really control whether or not
• 40:11
  data centers are are blowing up on us.
• 40:14
  Um, for water use, I think we need to
• 40:16
  continue educating ourselves. I think
• 40:19
  utilities stand to um consider the
• 40:22
  opportunities
• 40:23
  >> that that might be available to them in
• 40:25
  terms of investment in the distribution
• 40:26
  system. You know, we have water that
• 40:28
  they need and they have something we
• 40:31
  need which is way more money than more
• 40:34
  money.
• 40:35
  >> Yeah. You know, when I think about the
• 40:37
  profit margins on a data center like
• 40:39
  that, and I'm like, man, what if we just
• 40:41
  took a sliver of that and invest in
• 40:43
  distribution system, get those lead
• 40:45
  service lines out, put in a leak
• 40:46
  detection system. Um,
• 40:49
  >> to your point, it's going to come down
• 40:50
  so much to um state and local policy on
• 40:54
  how they how they choose to engage with
• 40:56
  that opportunity. Um,
• 40:58
  >> but but no doubt it is an opportunity,
• 41:00
  >> but yeah. Yeah,
• 41:01
  >> it is. It is. So, you know, yeah, it's
• 41:03
  it's one of those I feel like I'm I'm
• 41:05
  like riding on both sides of the fence
• 41:08
  on data centers. You know, I I
• 41:10
  absolutely am aware of the potential
• 41:12
  public health and environmental impacts
• 41:14
  of them and that concerns me greatly. I
• 41:17
  also like to introduce into the
• 41:18
  conversation the abandoned mall concept
• 41:21
  that at what point will all the data
• 41:23
  centers be obsolete and then we these
• 41:26
  gigantic abandoned shopping malls?
• 41:28
  >> That's a great point. in everyone's
• 41:30
  backyard because you I think about the
• 41:32
  march of technology in terms you know
• 41:34
  centralized decentralized large small
• 41:36
  things like that and the idea that
• 41:40
  >> a community might shut down my billion
• 41:42
  dollar project is not going to fly for
• 41:44
  me in the future and I'm bigs are going
• 41:46
  to be already thinking about putting
• 41:48
  data centers in space putting them
• 41:50
  underwater putting them in the Arctic
• 41:53
  >> yeah I want to melt the like the ice
• 41:55
  caps because I made that fairer
• 41:58
  >> I think that's or even going with the
• 42:00
  distri, you know, distributed models and
• 42:01
  and I've said, you know, really crazy
• 42:03
  ideas like everyone having a small data
• 42:06
  center in their home submerged in their
• 42:08
  water heater, helping to heat their
• 42:10
  water, capturing some of that energy,
• 42:12
  but distributing it so that it's not in
• 42:14
  one physical location anymore.
• 42:17
  >> So, if there's any investor out there
• 42:20
  that heard about that concept right
• 42:21
  there and wants to invest in that
• 42:24
  company, right,
• 42:25
  >> let's do it.
• 42:26
  >> Let's is starting. Yeah. Let's go.
• 42:29
  >> Yeah, I think enough coffee time.
• 42:32
  >> I'm just ideas left and right and they
• 42:34
  usually become uh businesses. I had the
• 42:36
  Uber moms thought like 20 years ago when
• 42:39
  Uber came out. I was like, well, they
• 42:41
  should really just do this for parents
• 42:42
  who have to drop their kids off at
• 42:43
  soccer.
• 42:44
  >> And I think there was a startup in
• 42:45
  California that started doing it. My
• 42:48
  wife's like, every time you have a crazy
• 42:49
  idea, you just need to like go to
• 42:51
  market.
• 42:52
  >> It just Yeah, the crazy ideas are out
• 42:54
  there. It's really who who's going to
• 42:55
  capture it and execute on it. Exactly.
• 42:57
  um is is really
• 42:59
  >> really really what it really what it
• 43:01
  comes down to.
• 43:02
  >> Well, um
• 43:03
  >> we're glad you're busy right now, but
• 43:05
  keep those crazy ideas coming. That's
• 43:07
  for sure. Cuz that's what we're going to
• 43:08
  need to to keep the flow moving in this
• 43:11
  industry.
• 43:11
  >> So,
• 43:12
  >> yeah,
• 43:12
  >> that's awesome.
• 43:13
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's been amazing.
• 43:16
  >> This is such a good conversation kind to
• 43:18
  your point. We could we could do an
• 43:19
  entire series and go in any number of
• 43:22
  any number of directions. Um, but I I
• 43:26
  would love just to kind of um land the
• 43:28
  plane and and just kind of say like,
• 43:30
  hey, when you're thinking about um
• 43:34
  what's next for ASU, what's next for
• 43:36
  state drinking water administrators, um
• 43:38
  what what's um what's one of the highest
• 43:42
  priority initiatives that you're working
• 43:44
  on right now um to to improve the lives
• 43:48
  of water administrators?
• 43:50
  >> Any can you pick only one?
• 43:53
  >> Yeah, I'm going to try. So, you don't
• 43:54
  need to pick only one. Just
• 43:56
  >> Well, no. I I'll give you like I'll give
• 43:57
  you the crazy stuff because that's
• 43:59
  typically half my mind is always
• 44:00
  >> that works better on podcasts anyway.
• 44:02
  >> Yeah. I'm always going to be doing the
• 44:03
  day-to-day, you know, members need
• 44:05
  something. We're going to be wrestling
• 44:07
  Legionella. We're going to be fighting
• 44:08
  with cyber security. We're going to be,
• 44:10
  you know, tackling all these new rags,
• 44:12
  everything. That's all going to happen.
• 44:14
  What I'm really thinking a lot about
• 44:16
  now, it reminds me of where I was back
• 44:17
  in '09
• 44:19
  >> when I'm seeing massive opportunity to
• 44:21
  change the way that we do business and
• 44:24
  in a role where I think I can have more
• 44:26
  impact in in putting that in play. Yeah.
• 44:29
  >> So when I think about the future of
• 44:31
  Azda, I think about really raising the
• 44:34
  significance of how I'm taking the 30
• 44:37
  years of data that I've collected on the
• 44:39
  Astra network, organizing it, making
• 44:42
  accessible to my team so that they're
• 44:44
  more knowledgeable, and so they're able
• 44:45
  to tap into
• 44:48
  vast volumes of notes, knowledge, and
• 44:50
  perspectives over the years that they
• 44:53
  would never be able to find or or enough
• 44:55
  research to do. How do I share that
• 44:57
  information with my members who are
• 44:59
  doing the same? You know, everyone, hey,
• 45:02
  I'm a new lead rule manager. Give me
• 45:04
  everything Hasbro has on lead. It's 2025
• 45:07
  and I can't do that.
• 45:08
  >> I can't just point you there. I mean, I
• 45:10
  can do it, but I have to pull it all
• 45:12
  together. So, you know, I'm I'm looking
• 45:15
  at resource libraries, pulling all these
• 45:17
  little bits together, and then now all
• 45:20
  of my work with AI is that layer. That's
• 45:25
  what makes it possible. It's been the
• 45:27
  missing ingredient to all of this.
• 45:28
  >> That's right.
• 45:29
  >> I've got the data. Now I have tools that
• 45:31
  will help me organize the data and can
• 45:34
  serve as a layer to allow you to engage
• 45:37
  with that data in a way that would have
• 45:39
  never been possible before. Just too
• 45:40
  much information.
• 45:41
  >> Yeah. So that to me if successful can
• 45:44
  have a transformative impact on how we
• 45:46
  work internally at ASDA, how our members
• 45:49
  are supported and then my hope is you
• 45:53
  know really getting involved in some
• 45:54
  more you know sector focused projects to
• 45:57
  get the same types of operational
• 45:59
  efficiencies baked into the sector.
• 46:02
  >> Yeah, great.
• 46:02
  >> Yeah. What Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what a
• 46:05
  journey you've had and we've we've loved
• 46:08
  being able to um just have this
• 46:10
  conversation and um and thank you so
• 46:13
  much for being on today's podcast.
• 46:16
  >> Thank you guys. It's been absolutely
• 46:17
  awesome. I mean, I um I don't know. I
• 46:20
  appreciate great greatly what you guys
• 46:22
  do. Um I respect the company, you know,
• 46:24
  I I enjoy spending time with you, Isaac
• 46:27
  and Megan. Um so, the conversations are
• 46:29
  always awesome and um yeah, just keep
• 46:32
  telling your stories and keep making
• 46:33
  wire work. Yeah, thank you.
• 46:35
  >> We will.
• 46:36
  >> And thank you all for joining us on this
• 46:38
  week's episode of the Make Water Work
• 46:40
  podcast. We love getting to have these
• 46:42
  conversations and so if you enjoyed
• 46:44
  this, please like, share, subscribe, and
• 46:47
  reach out to us. Let us know who else
• 46:49
  you want to hear from who makes water
• 46:50
  work. And we'll see you next time.
• 46:53
  Thanks for listening to the Make Water
• 46:55
  Work podcast. If you enjoyed today's
• 46:57
  episode, please take a moment to like,
• 46:59
  share, and subscribe so you never miss a
• 47:02
  conversation. We'd love to hear your
• 47:04
  thoughts and questions. Connect with us
• 47:06
  on LinkedIn or send us a message.
• 47:08
  Together, we can make water work for
• 47:11
  everyone.