Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL: TEEN GIRL ON CARNIVAL CRUISE, BODY STUFFED UNDER BED, SHOCK SUSPECT EYED?

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BOMBSHELL: TEEN GIRL ON CARNIVAL CRUISE, BODY STUFFED UNDER BED, SHOCK SUSPECT EYED? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Bombshelle in the case
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Speaker 1: of a little teen girl on a carnival cruise, her body,
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Speaker 1: we now learn, is found stuffed up under a cabin
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Speaker 1: bed with life vests stuffed on top of her to
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Speaker 1: hide her dead body, and as we go to air
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Speaker 1: a shock, suspect is eyed. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: Eighteen year old Anna Kappner, a brilliant straight A student
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Speaker 2: from Titusville, Florida, embarks on what is meant to be
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Speaker 2: a celebratory cruise, marking the end of her high school journey.
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Speaker 2: This trip is supposed to be a joyful escape, unaware
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Speaker 2: of what is to come.
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Speaker 1: Stunning developments in the case of little Anna, the teen
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Speaker 1: girl cheerleader out of Titusvile, Florida, who goes on a
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Speaker 1: carnival cruise ship with her family. I'm curious there have
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Speaker 1: been different times of death reported from not only the ship,
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Speaker 1: but then what we learn from the medical examiner is
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Speaker 1: very different. Joining me in All Star Panel, but straight
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Speaker 1: out to Robert Crispin, private investigator, former fed not only
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Speaker 1: with Homeland Security, Department of justice, but also with the dea.
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Speaker 1: Robert Crispin is joining us. All location at Port of
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Speaker 1: Miami where the cruise ships depart. Tell me how difficult
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Speaker 1: it's gonna be, Robert Crispin to put this case. It's
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Speaker 1: like Humpty Dumpty. All the king's horses and all the
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Speaker 1: king's men could never put Humpty together again. Why is
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Speaker 1: it so difficult to put a case together when A
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Speaker 1: you had the wrong time of death, and B every
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Speaker 1: passenger on that floating crime scene is he's gone.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Nancy, forget about that. Soon as he came back
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Speaker 3: here to the Port of Miami, every single one of
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Speaker 3: those passengers got off and they went to off corners
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Speaker 3: of the world, out of the country, all around the US.
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Speaker 3: The problem I have with all of this is is
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Speaker 3: purported that all these family members stayed in the same room.
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Speaker 3: How is it if you're with your father that you
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Speaker 3: go to sleep as a dad and you don't see
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Speaker 3: your daughter and she's not in the room. That just
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Speaker 3: doesn't sit right with me as an investigator starting to
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Speaker 3: look into this. And then the next morning it's nine o'clock,
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Speaker 3: everyone's eating buffet, and all of a sudden, where's Anna seriously.
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Speaker 3: So as an investigator, the FBI is going to have
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Speaker 3: an issue of trying to figure out who's with Anna,
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Speaker 3: who's the last person with her, who went to her
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Speaker 3: cabin with her, because it was already reported that she
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Speaker 3: went back earlier in the night because she didn't feel good.
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Speaker 1: That's a problem.
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Speaker 3: An FBI has a big task on her hands unless
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Speaker 3: they get a confession of somebody who comes forward, because
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Speaker 3: they've got to start this from the time they put
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Speaker 3: their first step on that ramp to get up into
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Speaker 3: that ship, to get to that crime scene. Because, like
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Speaker 3: we had this discussion before, it's a floating crime scene.
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Speaker 3: If it is a homicide, which this is looking like
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Speaker 3: it probably is. Remember all the evidence that could have
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Speaker 3: been using this Nancy could have been thrown over on
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Speaker 3: the moving crime scene in three.
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Speaker 4: To five thousand feet of water.
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Speaker 3: You're never finding it. You're never finding it.
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Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, let me see Crispin there at the Port
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Speaker 1: of Miami. Crispin, you said it likely is I murder.
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you think she died of natural causes
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Speaker 1: at age eighteen, but she went under the committed suicide
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Speaker 1: and then cover herself up with a blanket. Of course
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Speaker 1: this is not.
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Speaker 3: She was found under the bed, wrapped in the black,
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Speaker 3: covered by those life jackets.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Spencer Erenfeld joining us known as the
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Speaker 1: cruise ship lawyer. He is representing the family of another
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Speaker 1: woman who dies on a cruise ship a mom. Spencer,
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Speaker 1: let's follow up on what Robert Crispin just reported that
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Speaker 1: this whole family was staying in the same room. Whether
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Speaker 1: the entire extended family was in the same room, I'm
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Speaker 1: not sure about that, but I do know this little
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Speaker 1: girl did not have a room to herself. So do
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Speaker 1: you know how small these rooms are? Even the big
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Speaker 1: rooms on a cruise ship are incredibly small.
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Speaker 4: They're super tiny, Nancy. They're kind of like a motel
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Speaker 4: six size room for the most part. If it's a
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Speaker 4: windowless balcony root without a balcony, they're as dark as
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Speaker 4: a coffin in there. And I've had a lot of
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Speaker 4: cases where people have gotten into those rooms and other
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Speaker 4: passengers are not aware of it, or people have left
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Speaker 4: the room and other passengers don't realize it. They're very dark,
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Speaker 4: soundproof rooms. It's not unusual, especially when you're sharing a
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Speaker 4: room with a lot of people, to lose track of.
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Speaker 1: Somebody, Spencer Arnfeld, not to parse words, but you've heard
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Speaker 1: of light switches, right, Are you trying to tell me
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Speaker 1: that they went into their room in the complete dark
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Speaker 1: of night, put on their PJS and the shroud of darkness,
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Speaker 1: couldn't see a thing, managed to change clothes, brush their teeth,
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Speaker 1: get ready for bed, but yet they didn't look over
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Speaker 1: at her bunk. And then in the morning they got
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Speaker 1: ready and complete and total darkness. That did not happen.
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Speaker 4: It sounds incredible, Nancy, but I've had cases where people
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Speaker 4: have been found in other people's beds and that people
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Speaker 4: think people are in the room and they're not in
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Speaker 4: their room. Yeah. I think it's actually possible that these
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Speaker 4: dark coffin white cabins would prevent family men, especially when
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Speaker 4: you're sharing a room with so many people, to keep
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Speaker 4: track of everybody.
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Speaker 1: You know, what, Spencer, do you have children? Are you
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Speaker 1: lucky enough to have time? I do?
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Speaker 4: I do?
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Speaker 1: Okay, So you take your child on a cruise and
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Speaker 1: when you go off to the buffet, you don't take
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Speaker 1: your child with you, or at least look at your child.
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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, because it's too dark in
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Speaker 1: the room.
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Speaker 4: I'm saying I've seen this in many cases, Nancy. People
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Speaker 4: have different time schedules and they don't wait around for
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Speaker 4: each other. They may have thought she was out, they
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Speaker 4: may have thought she had already left the room. I'm
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Speaker 4: not defending them, but I'm sure.
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Speaker 1: You're not answering my question. Would you leave your cabin
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Speaker 1: without securing your child on a cruise ship with thousands
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Speaker 1: of people that could be anything. They could have credical histories,
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Speaker 1: they could be on drugs, they could be drunk. You're
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Speaker 1: gonna leave your child alone in the room. No, Why
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Speaker 1: are you saying this.
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Speaker 4: You're preaching to the choir. I'm a hyper sensitive and
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Speaker 4: vigilant because I know the dangers that work on these
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Speaker 4: cruise ships. I wouldn't leave my adult wife alone on
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Speaker 4: a cruise ship, much less my children. But I'm telling
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Speaker 4: you my experience, this happens all the time. I would
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Speaker 4: never do it because I'm.
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Speaker 1: Not buying it. I don't know what experience you're talking about,
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Speaker 1: but I'm not buying that. The family doesn't say she's
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Speaker 1: not in her bed at night. They don't say she's
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Speaker 1: not in her bed the next morning when they all
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Speaker 1: go off to breakfast, and then a maid has to
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Speaker 1: find her body with life vests stuff down there to
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Speaker 1: hide her. I am not buying it. This is what
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Speaker 1: we think happened. Listen.
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Speaker 5: The kept her family frantically searching for Anna. Last scene
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Speaker 5: feeling unwell at dinner the night before, when a housekeeper
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Speaker 5: makes a horrifying discovery. The maid starts to gather linens
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Speaker 5: for laundry, but notices the sheet missing off the bed.
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Speaker 5: Taking the bed, she notices a pile of life jackets
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Speaker 5: stuffed underneath. Removing the life jackets, she discovers the missing
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Speaker 5: sheet wrapped around Anna's body.
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Speaker 1: To you, Robert Crispin, former homicide detective in Miami, former
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Speaker 1: Department of Justice. It goes on and on now Crispininvestigations
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Speaker 1: dot Com. Robert. So often we see the killer wrap
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Speaker 1: the body up or somehow cover especially the face of
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Speaker 1: the victim. And in this case, the little girl was
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Speaker 1: wrapped in sheets, possibly a blanket. Why have you seen
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Speaker 1: that before?
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Speaker 4: Yeah?
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Speaker 3: So it's common knowledge that a lot of perpetrators who
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Speaker 3: commit a homicide. What's the first thing he wants to
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Speaker 3: do right away? Conceal the body and tell such time
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Speaker 3: that he can either dispose of the body in a
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Speaker 3: certain location or transport the body to a different location,
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Speaker 3: i e. We don't know that she could have been
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Speaker 3: thrown off of that ship and something interrupted that homicide.
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Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Thomas con joining us,
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Speaker 1: the chief Medical Examiner District toom Medical Examiner's office in
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Speaker 1: the state of Florida. Never a lack of business, Dodger Coin,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. We know the last
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Speaker 1: time she was spot on surveillance cameras, and that's going
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Speaker 1: to be when she was having dinner, where she left
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Speaker 1: dinner said she fell ill. According to the family. I've
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Speaker 1: got to find out was that one family member was
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Speaker 1: that multiple members that heard her say that she should
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Speaker 1: have been seen on surveillance going into that room starting there.
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Speaker 1: It was a full twenty four hours before her body
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Speaker 1: was found. It was the next day. How much evidence
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Speaker 1: have we lost because of the delay of her being
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Speaker 1: on a cruise ship in the middle of the Caribbean.
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Speaker 4: Well, hopefully not too much.
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Speaker 6: I mean, the process of decomposition wouldn't have progressed too
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Speaker 6: much in that timeframe where we would still be able
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Speaker 6: to determine the cause of death. We would still have
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Speaker 6: enough ability to grab toxicology or fluids for toxicology testing,
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Speaker 6: so all the evidence should still be present on the
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Speaker 6: body and within the body. Same thing with trying to
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Speaker 6: figure out her actual time of death, right because you know,
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Speaker 6: I'm assuming that eleven seventeen times when her death was pronounced.
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Speaker 6: We don't know exactly when during that night she died,
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Speaker 6: but you know her degree of rigor mortis, meaning how
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Speaker 6: stiffer a body still is, her degree of libra mortis
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Speaker 6: meaning the blood settling in the body, whether it was
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Speaker 6: fixed in place, whether she had a full stomach full
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Speaker 6: of food that never left her stomach.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, let me ask a kind of question right there,
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Speaker 1: Dodger Coin, I want to clear up something you said
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Speaker 1: about rigor. Rigor Morris, of course, is when the body stiffens.
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Speaker 1: But isn't it true after a period of hours, First
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Speaker 1: of all, the person is killed. Then after a period
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Speaker 1: of time you go into rigor. Then after several hours,
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Speaker 1: you come out of rigor and your body is again limp.
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Speaker 1: What do you do if the body has already come
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Speaker 1: out of rigor, Because when you're in rigor, it's a
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Speaker 1: lot easier to tell. Oh, this took two three hours
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Speaker 1: for rigor to set in. But once you're out of rigor,
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Speaker 1: how do you determine the time of death based on
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Speaker 1: the body alone? Forget about surveillance cameras, forget about what
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Speaker 1: the family says, What about the body itself? What can
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Speaker 1: I determine on time of death?
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Speaker 6: Well, we can't actually give you an exact time, but
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Speaker 6: we can give you a range. And so we know
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Speaker 6: that if a person, a normal person under normal circumstances,
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Speaker 6: we'd expect to come out of rigor between eight to
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Speaker 6: twelve hours. And so if a person would suggest that
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Speaker 6: at least maybe perhaps eight to twelve hours has passed
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Speaker 6: from their time of death. Now there are persons who
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Speaker 6: go into rigor almost immediately after death, ross that usually
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Speaker 6: takes we stay about an hour to two hours for
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Speaker 6: you to start seeing full rigor throughout the body from
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Speaker 6: head to toes. But generally a range of about eight
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Speaker 6: to twelve hours we expect the body to be out
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Speaker 6: of rigor. So if you see a body is completely
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Speaker 6: out of rigor, it would suggest that that amount of
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Speaker 6: time has passed since they died. And that's really the
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Speaker 6: only the range we can give you. I mentioned before
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Speaker 6: about food in her stomach. You know if she had
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Speaker 6: left dinner having eaten and she still had food in
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Speaker 6: her stomach, that would suggest that you know, a small
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Speaker 6: amount of time elapsed from when she left the dinner
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Speaker 6: table to when she was killed. Because you know you
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Speaker 6: figure gastric emptying time the amount of time for our
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Speaker 6: food to leave our stomach. You know there's a range
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Speaker 6: of times, but you know we'd expect not longer than
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Speaker 6: you know, an hour to two hours that to occur.
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Speaker 6: So you have some evidence present on the body and
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Speaker 6: within the body that may allow you to give a
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Speaker 6: range of time from when she.
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Speaker 1: Was killed straight out to board certify forensic psychologists over
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Speaker 1: eighteen years experience Alison Paganelli joining us. Alison, thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us. I've heard Spencer Aaronfel go on
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Speaker 1: and on and on about how dark it is inside
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Speaker 1: a cruise ship cabin. You do know they have lights.
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Speaker 1: You just hit the switch and turn on the light.
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Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to believe the family would
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Speaker 1: come back in that night thinking the daughter had fell ill,
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Speaker 1: and come to her cabin and go to sleep without
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Speaker 1: seeing her, and then get up the next morning and
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Speaker 1: everybody gets ready and Lisa her breakfast and doesn't notice
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Speaker 1: she's not there. None of that makes any sense, Allison.
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Speaker 1: I mean, we're parents who would leave their child behind.
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Speaker 7: As far as the lights, which knows that if she
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Speaker 7: went to the room because she didn't feel well, maybe
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Speaker 7: the family used the flashlight app on their phone or
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Speaker 7: something to not disturb her by turning on all the lights.
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Speaker 1: And as far as.
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Speaker 7: The morning not spotting her in there, you know, there's
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Speaker 7: lots of possibilities. I would agree with the commentator who
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Speaker 7: said earlier that they may have thought, you know, she's eighteen,
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Speaker 7: she's up at the fitness center, she's maybe taken a
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Speaker 7: walk something like that, will just meet her at breakfast,
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Speaker 7: or who knows, maybe they had decided ahead of time
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Speaker 7: like y'all can do, or she can do what she
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Speaker 7: would like to do. She's eighteen, but everybody meets together
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Speaker 7: for meals.
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Speaker 1: Good point, Allison. So they all go to breakfast and
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Speaker 1: she's not there. She's not meeting for meals in your
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Speaker 1: hypothetical fairy tale story right that you're putting out there. Okay,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is with Alison Pagan, Alliot,
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Speaker 1: Spencer Arnfield. Do you know where your children are tonight?
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Speaker 1: Spencer do you know where they are right now?
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Speaker 4: I have a general sense of where my kids are.
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Speaker 4: There are adults, and I think that perhaps on a cruise,
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Speaker 4: people lower their guard and they thought that this young
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Speaker 4: lady was an adult, perhaps and they didn't need to
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Speaker 4: be constantly supervising her every move. That is not uncommon
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Speaker 4: in my experience representing people of this age.
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Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Story's investigative reporter. So the
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Speaker 1: maid goes in and discovers the body stuffed under the bed.
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Speaker 1: Could you describe how the maid found the body and
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Speaker 1: what condition.
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Speaker 8: That's right, Nancy, the maid coming to clean the room,
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Speaker 8: coming to remake the bed, is the one who notices
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Speaker 8: this pile of life jackets in the sheet stuffed under
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Speaker 8: the bed, and that's when she discovers Anna's body. Now
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Speaker 8: that's where things get unclear. So we know we have
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Speaker 8: this time of death eleven seventeen am on November seventh.
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Speaker 8: Witnesses say that the maid came in around eleven. That's
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Speaker 8: when security showed up at this cabin and guarded it
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Speaker 8: for the rest of the crews. So that's where there's
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Speaker 8: this big discrepancy.
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Speaker 9: Anna's father, stepmother, and other family members join her for
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Speaker 9: a six day carnival cruise to the Western Caribbean. After
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Speaker 9: their last day at Porting Cosmeo, Mexico, Anna heads back
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Speaker 9: to her room early, telling family members she isn't feeling
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Speaker 9: well during dinner. The next morning, Anna doesn't join her
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Speaker 9: family for breakfast and isn't answering her door. Her family
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Speaker 9: begins a frantic search for the teen on the fourteen
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Speaker 9: deck four thousand passenger ship.
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Speaker 1: At first, I was like, no, this can't be real.
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Speaker 8: I broke down, like I looked through all of our
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Speaker 8: pictures immediately, like I missed heress on, much like I
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Speaker 8: really cried.
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Speaker 1: From Fox thirty five. Now she's dead on a cruise ship.
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Speaker 1: It's a floating crime scene.
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Speaker 4: Either not have all the CCTD or failed to preserve it.
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Speaker 4: The security officers on cruise ships are really nothing more
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Speaker 4: than glorified mall cops.
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Speaker 1: Sydney Sumner, what is happening, Nancy?
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Speaker 8: We've learned through the documents related to this custody disagreement
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Speaker 8: that the SAIDs are eyeing Anna's stepbrother as a suspect
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Speaker 8: in her death. So Anna's dad, Christopher Kepner, just married
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Speaker 8: Seantel Hudson, who is divorced from Thomas Hudson. So Thomas
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Speaker 8: and Chantelle. Chantelle share three children, two of which are
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Speaker 8: still minors. So the older of those two minor children,
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Speaker 8: Anna's stepbrother, is alleged to have taken part in her death.
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Speaker 8: Now the father is trying to get custody of their
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Speaker 8: nine year old daughter and is also trying to figure
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Speaker 8: out what's going on with this son.
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Speaker 1: When you say they allegedly took part in her death,
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Speaker 1: who this.
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Speaker 8: Is Anna's sixteen year old stepbrother, Seantel Hudson's son, Yes.
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Speaker 1: Tayspaser Aaronfield, a veteran tild lawyer joining us note as
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Speaker 1: the cruise ship lawyer. I know that you have read
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Speaker 1: these documents all this. We are as a result of
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Speaker 1: an emergency motion for a continuance for a hearing. Explain
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Speaker 1: what happened, Spencer.
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Speaker 4: My understanding of what's happening is that in the divorce proceeding,
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Speaker 4: certain questions are being asked and one of the parties
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Speaker 4: is saying, look, we just lost her, and I'm in
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Speaker 4: no position to go under oath and have to testify
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Speaker 4: right now. Give me some time, give me a continuance,
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Speaker 4: allow me to grieve, and then I can appear in
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Speaker 4: court to continue my divorce. But this is something that
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Speaker 4: started long before this cruise.
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Speaker 1: Well in the divorce proceeding. Yes, and this is a divorce,
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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Sydney Center. I've studied the
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Speaker 1: filings as have you. This is a divorce between the stepmother,
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Speaker 1: Chantelle Hudson, and her former husband, Thomas Hudson. So it
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Speaker 1: seems as if Chantelle was going to be deposed or
18:56
Speaker 1: asked questions under oath, and she files this emergency motion
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Speaker 1: for a continuous to delay those questions and cites as
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Speaker 1: a reason in paragraph two quote an extremely sensitive severe
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Speaker 1: circumstance has arisen wherein respondence mother will not be able
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Speaker 1: to testify. Currently, there's an investigation conducted by the FBI
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Speaker 1: arising out of sudden death of eighteen year old and
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Speaker 1: A Keptner MS Keptner. The deceased is the daughter of
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Speaker 1: respondence paramore, and that would be the bio dad Chris
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Speaker 1: Kepner and respondent and the minor children were all on
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Speaker 1: the cruise ship together. So bottom line, they're saying they
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Speaker 1: can't testify or it would put their child, which I
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Speaker 1: assume to be the sixteen year old brother in jeopardy.
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Speaker 8: The court documents are between Sean Tell Hudson and her
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Speaker 8: ex husband Thomas Hudson. They share three children together. The
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Speaker 8: oldest is eighteen years old, not a minor anymore, but
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Speaker 8: the sixteen year old and their nine year old daughter
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Speaker 8: are a part of the custody agreement and it appears
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Speaker 8: the filing is related to Chantelle not holding up her
20:18
Speaker 8: end of their co parenting arrangement. So she is asking
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Speaker 8: for more time to respond to these filings because anything
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Speaker 8: she may say in court could harm that sixteen year
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Speaker 8: old in this federal criminal proceeding against them.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, how much direct them? This
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Speaker 1: attention to paragraph three of this emergency motion for continuance,
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Speaker 1: if we could put that up for the viewers. The
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Speaker 1: respondent has been advised through discussions with FBI investigators and
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Speaker 1: her lawyers, Chantelle Hudson, the stepmother, a criminal case may
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Speaker 1: be initiated against one of the minor children of this
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Speaker 1: instant action.
21:08
Speaker 9: Senior year at Temple Christians, Ana paints her parking spot
21:11
Speaker 9: to match your favorite movie Clueless and is ecstatic to
21:13
Speaker 9: be back on the field, cheering for the Lions. Licensed
21:16
Speaker 9: to boat and scoopas she enjoys making tiktoks with her
21:19
Speaker 9: friends and brother. Anna plans on joining the military. In fact,
21:23
Speaker 9: she's waiting on the results of her as VAB testing
21:25
Speaker 9: to determine which jobs will suit her best.
21:27
Speaker 2: And his grandparents gift her a spring cruise has an
21:30
Speaker 2: eighteenth birthday gift. Anna enjoys the experience so much she
21:32
Speaker 2: books a six day trip with stops in Oto Rios, Jamaica,
21:36
Speaker 2: the Grand Caymans, and Cosimel, Mexico.
21:39
Speaker 1: How did the little girl die?
21:41
Speaker 4: Who's she hanging out with on the ship?
21:43
Speaker 1: What time did she die? Who was with her?
21:46
Speaker 10: We're trying to piece together exactly what happened. Lindsay Allison,
21:49
Speaker 10: a passenger staying just down the hall from Anna's room,
21:52
Speaker 10: remembers crew responding to a medical call around eleven am
21:56
Speaker 10: Friday morning.
21:57
Speaker 1: Security never left.
21:58
Speaker 4: They guarded the room very well.
22:00
Speaker 10: She doesn't know what happened. Allison can imagine the terror
22:03
Speaker 10: that ensues when your vacation turns into a floating prison.
22:06
Speaker 4: You're out in the middle of the ocean.
22:07
Speaker 9: You can't go anywhere, you can't get on land, you
22:10
Speaker 9: can't flee.
22:11
Speaker 1: From our friends. At Fox thirteen, seemingly we're learning more
22:14
Speaker 1: from neighbors on the cruise ship than we are from
22:17
Speaker 1: the family. You know, doctor Thomas Coyne. A lot is
22:20
Speaker 1: going to depend on the condition of the body and
22:24
Speaker 1: other words, what will the medical examiner be looking at
22:29
Speaker 1: on an and around her body to determine her true
22:34
Speaker 1: cause of death?
22:37
Speaker 6: Sure? Well, I'm assuming the body was brought in still
22:40
Speaker 6: wrapped in that blanket as evidence, and so should have
22:44
Speaker 6: came into the medical examiner's office and a locked body
22:47
Speaker 6: bag to maintain chan and custody for that evidence. And
22:50
Speaker 6: they would have started literally from working outside inwards. So
22:54
Speaker 6: they would have obtained at that time any swabs that
22:58
Speaker 6: they could have for a bodily fluid, whether it be
23:00
Speaker 6: saliva or other bodily fluids.
23:03
Speaker 1: Uh.
23:03
Speaker 6: They would have h removed alliver clothing if present, but
23:07
Speaker 6: if not, they would have examined her from head to
23:09
Speaker 6: toe look for injury.
23:11
Speaker 4: Uh, they would do.
23:13
Speaker 1: This is not t at windsor castle. Do you think
23:16
Speaker 1: you're sitting with Charles and Camela. Are you talking about
23:18
Speaker 1: sperm or semen?
23:20
Speaker 3: Well?
23:21
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, I mean any any bodily fluids, right, I
23:23
Speaker 6: mean if a person had person or skin, skin to
23:26
Speaker 6: skin contact, You're gonna have cellular material, You're gonna have
23:29
Speaker 6: potentially semen, if there was sect or other bodily fluids,
23:33
Speaker 6: if there was trauma, and the person causing the trauma
23:36
Speaker 6: themselves may have been hurt or bled upon that person.
23:39
Speaker 6: So bodily fluids is all encompassing. But yes, they would
23:42
Speaker 6: have done a sexual assault examination. They would have looked
23:44
Speaker 6: inside her vagina to see if there was any evidence
23:47
Speaker 6: of semen or other fluid.
23:49
Speaker 3: Uh.
23:50
Speaker 6: Then doing the external and internal examination, they would have
23:53
Speaker 6: looked for all kinds of injury. They would have looked
23:55
Speaker 6: for bruising, They would have looked for evidence of strangulation
23:59
Speaker 6: uh heembrhage in the muscles of the neck, fractures of
24:02
Speaker 6: the thyrewood cartilage or highwaid bone partiti, and the eyes
24:05
Speaker 6: all signs that would allow them to determine if there
24:08
Speaker 6: was a fatal injury present.
24:10
Speaker 1: Doctor Corne, you mentioned the partiki in the eyes, and
24:12
Speaker 1: I assume you bring that up, which is the bursting
24:15
Speaker 1: of the blood vessels in the eye. They are minute
24:18
Speaker 1: typically not seen by the naked human eye. You'd have
24:22
Speaker 1: to put the eyeballs under a microscope to look and
24:26
Speaker 1: what that bursting. That hemorrhage would mean very often, not always,
24:31
Speaker 1: but very often if she was asphyxiated. The pressure from
24:36
Speaker 1: being asphyxiated makes the blood vessels in the eye burst.
24:42
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be seen in a nasal cavity as well,
24:45
Speaker 1: but specifically in the eyes. Would that burst PARTICKII disappear
24:54
Speaker 1: after say twelve hours, fourteen hours, twenty four hours when
24:59
Speaker 1: the body gets to the amase office or would that
25:02
Speaker 1: still be there?
25:03
Speaker 6: That would still be there, So all the patika, if
25:06
Speaker 6: there was partika a president in the eyes, they would
25:08
Speaker 6: still be there. They would also look within the mouth
25:10
Speaker 6: as well, because there's no uncommon and got patitiah in
25:14
Speaker 6: the mucosa of our lips, so underneath our lips, so
25:17
Speaker 6: those those areas, and you may even see faint tiki
25:20
Speaker 6: around the eyes, on the skin of the face, depending
25:22
Speaker 6: upon how hard and how rapid the person was strangled.
25:26
Speaker 1: How would you be able to tell the difference between
25:28
Speaker 1: a manual or ligature of strangulation versus asphyxiations such as
25:33
Speaker 1: being suffocated by a pillow?
25:35
Speaker 6: Sure well, I mean strangulation. You're gonna have marks of strangulation.
25:38
Speaker 6: You're gonna have bruises around the neck. If you use
25:40
Speaker 6: the ligature, you'll have a ligature mark around the neck.
25:42
Speaker 6: If a person used a pillow, they're gonna have to
25:45
Speaker 6: press really hard because a person who is being asphyxiated
25:48
Speaker 6: is generally not willing, so they're gonna be fighting back,
25:50
Speaker 6: and so they'll probably have abrasions on the face. You
25:53
Speaker 6: may even see some lacerations inside the lips where the
25:57
Speaker 6: lips are pressed against the teeth. You may even see
25:59
Speaker 6: tearing at the frenula of the mouth, you know, that
26:01
Speaker 6: little part that attaches our lip to our gum line.
26:05
Speaker 6: That tissue may be torn. And then, of course, if
26:09
Speaker 6: there is a perpetrator, you may also see injuries on
26:12
Speaker 6: that person. Because my assumption is a person being strangled
26:14
Speaker 6: or asphyxiated is going to be fighting back, maybe scratching
26:18
Speaker 6: their attacker. So you may even actually look at that
26:20
Speaker 6: person and be checking their hands and their body for
26:23
Speaker 6: signs of injury.
26:24
Speaker 1: Another issue, Doctor Thomas Coin, This murder was obviously not
26:28
Speaker 1: well thought out. The manual strangulation versus ligature manual would
26:36
Speaker 1: be more spur of the moment. But if a ligature
26:39
Speaker 1: was used, we may very well find a ligature either
26:42
Speaker 1: still around her neck or right there with her body.
26:46
Speaker 6: Correct, and then you can compare marks on her neck
26:51
Speaker 6: because very often when you strangle a person with the ligature,
26:54
Speaker 6: you leave a patterned abrasion or other patterned injury on
26:57
Speaker 6: the neck that then you can compare to the potential
27:01
Speaker 6: object used to produce the strangulation.
27:04
Speaker 1: For instance, if it's a rope, then you would see
27:07
Speaker 1: rope marks that can be compared to the actual rope.
27:11
Speaker 1: Spencer Erinfield joining us. He is the cruise ship lawyer
27:16
Speaker 1: and has handled a myriad of cruise related accidents and deaths. Spencer,
27:23
Speaker 1: I want to talk about not just evidence from the
27:26
Speaker 1: body of this little girl, but digital forensic evidence. You
27:31
Speaker 1: have been on a million cruise ships investigating cases. It's
27:35
Speaker 1: like being in a Vegas casino for Pete's sake, more
27:38
Speaker 1: than NASA. Every square inch is covered like you're walking
27:41
Speaker 1: through LaGuardia. For Pete's sake. Everything's covered with surveillance video
27:46
Speaker 1: and the keys to the room are digital their key card.
27:52
Speaker 1: Nobody's using the old skeleton key anymore, which is valuable
27:56
Speaker 1: evidence explained.
27:58
Speaker 4: So they have like a black that's connected to the
28:01
Speaker 4: doors of these cruise lines that will show you who entered.
28:05
Speaker 4: Because each passenger has their own card, what time they
28:09
Speaker 4: entered and what time the door shut, they will also
28:12
Speaker 4: be able to tell what time the door opened. And
28:14
Speaker 4: all you have to do, Nancy is sink that with
28:18
Speaker 4: the high definition CCTV that they have of that hallway,
28:22
Speaker 4: and you'll be able to time precisely when she entered
28:26
Speaker 4: the cabin, and when each and every other member of
28:29
Speaker 4: the family, as well as the cabin steward who apparently
28:32
Speaker 4: found her entered the cabin. How long did it take
28:36
Speaker 4: him once he was in the cabin to exit the cabin.
28:39
Speaker 4: All those things are very easily determined by CCTV, assuming
28:45
Speaker 4: Carnival still has it. And this is why I'm thrilled
28:48
Speaker 4: that the FBI boarded the ship so quickly, because it
28:51
Speaker 4: prevented Carnival from getting rid of that CCTV footage that
28:56
Speaker 4: they often do in many of the cases that I'm
28:59
Speaker 4: investigating and prosecuting right now.
29:02
Speaker 1: Robert Crispin speaking of the FBI, I am going to
29:06
Speaker 1: amen everything Spencer Aaronfeld just said, because you know who
29:12
Speaker 1: is the security and the investigators on cruise ships. I
29:17
Speaker 1: do not want them investigating a highly technical murder where
29:21
Speaker 1: there could be molecular DNA. For Pete's sake, Explain who
29:26
Speaker 1: is the security and the criminal investigators on cruise ships.
29:32
Speaker 3: Wow, Nancy, that is a wide range of unique individuals,
29:37
Speaker 3: and a lot of them are from England. A lot
29:40
Speaker 3: of them are from Germany because these ships go all
29:43
Speaker 3: over the place, so they have their people here. But
29:45
Speaker 3: some of these people are just every day random people
29:48
Speaker 3: who went out and got a security license, passed an
29:51
Speaker 3: Internet test on the internet, got their license, and they're
29:56
Speaker 3: in charge of thirty five hundred people in international waters
30:00
Speaker 3: and don't have a clue how to lockdown a crime scene,
30:03
Speaker 3: how to lockdown people related to a crime scene, and
30:06
Speaker 3: how to lock down the entire ship if they have to,
30:11
Speaker 3: Because everybody on that ship, Nancy, when it got here
30:14
Speaker 3: is a suspect in my eyes as an investigator, Get
30:17
Speaker 3: off the ship, exit expeditiously.
30:20
Speaker 1: I don't think so crime stories with Nancy Grace. So
30:35
Speaker 1: I could have a bouncer from a bar in one
30:38
Speaker 1: of the islands as the security or the investigator. Sure
30:43
Speaker 1: on the cruise ship. It's entirely possibutly, is it.
30:46
Speaker 3: Not, Yes, it is absolutely.
30:50
Speaker 1: You mentioned three thousand witnesses try nearly six thousand potential
30:58
Speaker 1: witnesses listen.
31:00
Speaker 10: The fourteen deck Carnival Horizon sails to the Caribbean from
31:04
Speaker 10: Galveston and Miami, with space for nearly four thousand passengers
31:08
Speaker 10: in addition to a fifteen hundred person crew. The ship
31:11
Speaker 10: features three pools with water slides, a ropes course and skybike,
31:16
Speaker 10: a basketball court and jogging track, nine holes of mini golf,
31:20
Speaker 10: adult and children's clubs, a casino, an arcade, an IMAX
31:24
Speaker 10: movie theater, a spa, three auditoriums, and more bars and
31:27
Speaker 10: restaurants than you could visit during four to eight day cruises.
31:31
Speaker 1: Let me remind everyone, no one has been named an
31:35
Speaker 1: official suspect in this case. No one has been named
31:39
Speaker 1: a POI person of interest. What we are learning tonight
31:43
Speaker 1: is from court filings and comments made by the family.
31:49
Speaker 1: That's where we are learning our information tonight. If you
31:52
Speaker 1: know or think you know anything about the death of
31:55
Speaker 1: this teen girl, Anna dead on a Carnival Cruz call
32:01
Speaker 1: seven five four seven zero three two thousand, seven five
32:06
Speaker 1: four seven zero three two thousand. We remember an American hero,
32:12
Speaker 1: Sergeant Jeffrey Green, Union County Sheriffs, North Carolina, killed in
32:17
Speaker 1: the line of duty after ten years serving and protecting,
32:22
Speaker 1: leaving behind wife now widow, April American Hero Sergeant Jeffrey Green,
32:30
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,