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Murdaugh to Get New Murder Trial? Stephen Smith Cause of Death Reveal · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:13
Speaker 2: Will Alex Murdogg somehow managed to finagle a new murder
0:20
Speaker 2: trial in the cold blooded killings of his wife and son,
0:25
Speaker 2: Paul and Mackie. Is that happening again? His son, his
0:31
Speaker 2: living son. Buster Murdog denies involvement with Stephen Smith's death.
0:38
Speaker 2: This as we have the result of yet a second
0:43
Speaker 2: autopsy on Stephen Smith and we learn a rape kit
0:47
Speaker 2: was conducted on the teen boy. All of this swirling
0:53
Speaker 2: while the clerk to the court, Rebecca Hill, denies all
0:59
Speaker 2: alligaces that she somehow tampered with the Alex Murdog jury.
1:05
Speaker 2: What will a new autopsy reveal? Is it true that
1:10
Speaker 2: teen boys Steven Smith actually died of a blow to
1:14
Speaker 2: the head. I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:17
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
1:20
Speaker 2: and on series XXIM one eleven with me an all
1:23
Speaker 2: star panel. But first I want to go out to
1:26
Speaker 2: a special guest, Jennifer Wood, director of Research Fitznews dot Com.
1:30
Speaker 2: Jennifer is Alex Murdog getting a new trial. Lord help
1:37
Speaker 2: us all I know.
1:39
Speaker 3: I mean, I think every week the more that comes out,
1:42
Speaker 3: the more I lean towards it. Being a possibility, but
1:46
Speaker 3: there's still a lot of what if. We're still waiting
1:48
Speaker 3: to hear which judge gets a signed over see it
1:52
Speaker 3: by the Supreme Court. We're still waiting to hear if
1:54
Speaker 3: there will be an evidentiary hearing.
1:56
Speaker 4: But with the.
1:57
Speaker 3: Arrest of Clerk of Court Becky Hill's son.
2:00
Speaker 2: And just hell.
2:02
Speaker 3: For wire capping, it's not looking great.
2:06
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, explain that. Guys. We're
2:09
Speaker 2: talking about Alex Murdock, the legal heir to an incredible
2:16
Speaker 2: legal dynasty in South Carolina, who was charged and convicted
2:20
Speaker 2: of double murder? Is he getting a new trial? And
2:25
Speaker 2: a lot of it swirls around, and they dug deep,
2:28
Speaker 2: the defense did, and they came up with a grounds
2:32
Speaker 2: for reversal, or so they think, and that is that
2:35
Speaker 2: somehow the Clerk of Court, Rebecca Hill, who I met,
2:39
Speaker 2: she seemed very professional to me. I find it very
2:42
Speaker 2: hard to believe she would do anything to tamper with
2:45
Speaker 2: the jury. But their claim is she, let me just say,
2:50
Speaker 2: goaded the jury into a quick verdict. Would you say
2:53
Speaker 2: that's the claim, Jennifer Wood.
2:55
Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's the gest of it.
2:58
Speaker 2: Yes, joining me hip by a lawyer out of that
3:01
Speaker 2: jurisdiction who is partner with the Bland Richter Law firm
3:05
Speaker 2: and the lawyer for the Steven Smith family and the
3:07
Speaker 2: Gloria Saderfield family, Ronnie Richter joining us. Ronnie, what do
3:12
Speaker 2: you make of the defense claims by Alex Murdogg that
3:15
Speaker 2: somehow the clerk of the court tamper with the jury
3:18
Speaker 2: and there has to be a new trial.
3:19
Speaker 5: I think it's problematic. I think if it is proven
3:23
Speaker 5: true that Madame Clerk herself walked into the jury room
3:27
Speaker 5: and said to the jurors that they're about to hear
3:29
Speaker 5: testimony that they should disbelieve, I think that is presumed prejudicial.
3:35
Speaker 5: I don't see any remedy other than the grant of
3:38
Speaker 5: a new trial if that's proven to be true.
3:41
Speaker 2: Let's analyze exactly what has been said, and let me
3:45
Speaker 2: remind you. With me is doctor Kenneth Kinzie, the expert
3:49
Speaker 2: on the murderin murder trial. Also with me doctor Michelle Dupre,
3:53
Speaker 2: who can tell us everything available to the public right
3:57
Speaker 2: now regarding the second autopsius even Smith, including his cause
4:02
Speaker 2: of death. Todd Shipley with me, cyber crime expert and author,
4:07
Speaker 2: and Karen Stark with us renowned psychologist. But Jennifer would,
4:12
Speaker 2: I want to back it up to the claim that
4:15
Speaker 2: Becky Hill somehow taking the jury exactly what is the
4:18
Speaker 2: defense arguing.
4:19
Speaker 3: So the defenses arguing that in you know, during the
4:25
Speaker 3: time that the jury wasn't paneled, that she said things
4:27
Speaker 3: like watch Alex's body language when he was testifying, and
4:34
Speaker 3: you know other things that could have been prejudicial to
4:37
Speaker 3: the jury. But you know, some Jersey that they never
4:41
Speaker 3: saw that happen. Some jurorsay she did say that.
4:44
Speaker 2: Well, let me understand one more thing, Jennifer would, is
4:46
Speaker 2: this allegation coming from the juror that was and her
4:50
Speaker 2: ex husband that was thrown off the jury?
4:53
Speaker 3: One of them, Yes, one of those, one of those jurors.
4:57
Speaker 3: Is that juror the ag jurors how we refer to her,
5:00
Speaker 3: because when she was leaving, she asked to bring a
5:02
Speaker 3: dozen eggs with her.
5:03
Speaker 2: Yes, I was there for that, and I think the
5:05
Speaker 2: judge didn't understand what she was saying at first, as
5:08
Speaker 2: many of us did not. She wanted to go back
5:10
Speaker 2: into the jury deliberation room to get the eggs she
5:13
Speaker 2: had brought in that morning for the jury. She did
5:16
Speaker 2: not want the jury to have the eggs, the twelve eggs,
5:19
Speaker 2: since she was getting throw off the jury. That's the
5:21
Speaker 2: only way I could take that is that if I
5:23
Speaker 2: can't have them, no one will. So she was given
5:26
Speaker 2: permission to go back in the jury deliberation room to
5:28
Speaker 2: get her eggs. Now hold on. She was already thrown
5:33
Speaker 2: off the jury, so I would argue that would tain
5:36
Speaker 2: her credibility. But how does her ex husband fit into it?
5:39
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, So her ex I.
5:41
Speaker 3: Mean, this is all, this is all convoluted. But allegedly
5:47
Speaker 3: her ex husband, the Clerk of Court Becky Hill, saw
5:51
Speaker 3: a Facebook post on a local Facebook group that her
5:56
Speaker 3: ex husband had made that she was speaking about Alex
6:01
Speaker 3: Murdoch and his guilt are innocence outside of the jury room,
6:07
Speaker 3: and she reported that to Judge a Newman. But that
6:10
Speaker 3: really wasn't ultimately why she was dismissed. She was dismissed
6:14
Speaker 3: because she had spoken to some tenants of hers when
6:20
Speaker 3: she was delivering refrigerator over the weekend about Alex Murdoch's
6:25
Speaker 3: guilt or innocence and they were brought in to you know,
6:30
Speaker 3: they completed Daffi davits when we're brought in to testify
6:32
Speaker 3: under oath about that in camera.
6:34
Speaker 2: Wow, and what was it? She allegedly said to them.
6:37
Speaker 3: She was just you know, espousing whether or not she
6:40
Speaker 3: believed Alex was guilty or innocent before the end of
6:44
Speaker 3: the trial. But you know they're not supposed to talk outside.
6:46
Speaker 2: Of absolutely not joining us is Ronnie rich her high
6:50
Speaker 2: profile lawyer with Lann Richterard there in South Carolina. Ronnie,
6:55
Speaker 2: there has to be an evidentiary hearing for all I
6:58
Speaker 2: know they've already had one behind closed doors, but we
7:01
Speaker 2: haven't heard about it yet. There has to be an
7:03
Speaker 2: evidentiary hearing to make a record in case any trial
7:07
Speaker 2: is not granted so the appeals court can review the evidence.
7:12
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, Dot, And I can tell you there has
7:13
Speaker 5: been no evidentiary hearing. And I know that because we
7:17
Speaker 5: currently represent four of the jurors who deliberated on the
7:20
Speaker 5: murder conviction. You may recall that there was a point
7:23
Speaker 5: in time where Dick Carpoutlian had gone public about this
7:27
Speaker 5: and made some comment to the effect that if you're
7:30
Speaker 5: on that jury, you might want a lawyer up And
7:32
Speaker 5: so we extended our services for free to anybody who
7:36
Speaker 5: felt like they wanted.
7:36
Speaker 2: To now, why did the defense attorney Hartputlin or one
7:40
Speaker 2: of them anyway he had a fleet. Why did they
7:43
Speaker 2: tell the jurors they needed to get lawyers?
7:45
Speaker 5: I don't know. We've thought it was stunning to say
7:49
Speaker 5: such a thing, that there's no legal exposure for anybody
7:51
Speaker 5: on that jury, but to the extent any of them
7:54
Speaker 5: felt concerned by that. We threw it out there to
7:57
Speaker 5: the world that we're happy to do that for free,
8:01
Speaker 5: and so far for jerors have signed up. So I
8:04
Speaker 5: could tell you there's been no evidentary hearing. At any
8:07
Speaker 5: evidentary hearing, all of the jurors will be unpaneled and
8:11
Speaker 5: question about what they heard back in the deliberations.
8:15
Speaker 2: Well, I know this, I know the cleric. Becky Hill
8:18
Speaker 2: has denied any jury tampering allegations. She has spoken out.
8:23
Speaker 2: She says she did not tell them to watch Alex
8:27
Speaker 2: mrnag that they should reach a quick verdict, that she
8:31
Speaker 2: did not speak to them singly or as a group.
8:36
Speaker 2: So I got away what she's saying against what the
8:40
Speaker 2: juror I want my eggs juror is saying. And Jennifer Wood,
8:44
Speaker 2: are you telling me? Other jurors agree that Becky Hill
8:48
Speaker 2: tampered with their process of reaching a verdict.
8:51
Speaker 3: So I believe in the state's response they included statements
8:54
Speaker 3: from most of the jurors except for Wine, and there
8:58
Speaker 3: were two other jurors that that she I don't know
9:02
Speaker 3: that they specifically said she had, but that they had
9:06
Speaker 3: heard outside of the courtroom to watch Alex's body language
9:12
Speaker 3: while he was testifying.
9:14
Speaker 2: They can't just make a blanket allegation that somebody somewhere
9:18
Speaker 2: told them to watch his body language. I mean, that's
9:21
Speaker 2: not going to hold any water. Ronnie Richter. You've got
9:23
Speaker 2: to have a name, a direct allegation, and then that
9:28
Speaker 2: direct allegation has to be weighed in court and tested
9:31
Speaker 2: thrown across examination to determine did it happen, and if
9:35
Speaker 2: it did happen, did it affect their impartiality. It's not
9:40
Speaker 2: just did it happen? For all I know, they could
9:43
Speaker 2: ride by a billboard and see one eight hundred number
9:46
Speaker 2: for tips on the murder eye case. Someone could have
9:49
Speaker 2: yelled out on their visit to Moselle, the jury visit
9:53
Speaker 2: to the scene of the crime, Hey he did it.
9:56
Speaker 2: But did that affect their verdict? It's not just did
10:00
Speaker 2: it happen, Ronnie, it did it affect their verdict? Ronnie Richter, Well,
10:05
Speaker 2: I think.
10:05
Speaker 5: You're one hundred percent right there. Without violating any privilege,
10:09
Speaker 5: I can't tell you the folks we represent will not
10:11
Speaker 5: support any allegation of jury tampering. I do think, however, though,
10:16
Speaker 5: that if they can prove this allegation.
10:19
Speaker 2: Oh there's going to be a new trial.
10:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's going to be a new trial. It's going
10:22
Speaker 5: to be presumed prejudicial. So I don't think we get
10:24
Speaker 5: to the cut about, you know, did it affect the
10:27
Speaker 5: outcome or not. I think the jury tampering itself is
10:30
Speaker 5: so prejudicial to the process that we have to throw
10:32
Speaker 5: out the result. But the question is, can they prove
10:35
Speaker 5: this actually happened exactly exactly?
10:37
Speaker 2: Okay, this is what I'm saying. If I have to
10:40
Speaker 2: weigh credibility like the judge will, and like an appellate
10:46
Speaker 2: court will, you have to decide between you know, a
10:49
Speaker 2: morphous claims. Somebody told me to watch body language that
10:53
Speaker 2: that's not going to cut it. It's got to be
10:57
Speaker 2: something firm. There's got to be a irick speaker. It
11:01
Speaker 2: has to be tested in court and shown in court.
11:04
Speaker 2: But if it is shown, then there will be a
11:08
Speaker 2: new trial. So you've got to weigh the credibility between
11:11
Speaker 2: the court clerk, Rebecca Hill, and what they I want
11:15
Speaker 2: my ex guror is saying that's how that's gonna go down.
11:19
Speaker 2: But now onto another another twist and Alex murder case.
11:24
Speaker 2: Does it ever end? For Pete's sake? First of all,
11:27
Speaker 2: take a listen to this.
11:30
Speaker 4: Camp to County. Down on one where's your emergency?
11:32
Speaker 6: Yeah?
11:34
Speaker 4: I'm just going down it Croconveal Road.
11:37
Speaker 6: Somebody laying out.
11:40
Speaker 4: What road are you? Looking a name of the highway
11:42
Speaker 4: that you're on?
11:44
Speaker 7: I look at Crocoville Road, get known as Crocodill Room.
11:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, hold on, just taking and which way you headed? Okay?
11:58
Speaker 6: Think we thronson?
12:00
Speaker 7: Uh huh yeah, okay, you on that road just before
12:04
Speaker 7: you get into Crockettville.
12:06
Speaker 4: Je Crockoville. Make that right.
12:21
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
12:24
Speaker 4: Camping County. Now one way's your emergency?
12:27
Speaker 5: Yeah?
12:27
Speaker 2: Uh, I just calling down a wrong Crockaville Road.
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Speaker 8: Ye.
12:31
Speaker 4: See, somebody laying out what road are you? What's the
12:36
Speaker 4: name of the highway that you're on?
12:38
Speaker 6: Ah?
12:39
Speaker 4: I know it's Crocoville Road. Kids know it's Crocottville Road.
12:43
Speaker 7: Yeah, hold on, and which way you headed?
12:51
Speaker 4: Okay?
12:51
Speaker 6: Uh, thank we had a good uh ladys.
12:55
Speaker 7: Uh huh yeah, okay you on that road just before
12:58
Speaker 7: you get into Crockettville.
13:01
Speaker 4: Jerry Carton be there right.
13:03
Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine on one call out of
13:05
Speaker 2: Hampton County regarding the discovery of the body of Stephen Smith.
13:10
Speaker 2: As you will recall, Stephen Smith, a teen boy that
13:15
Speaker 2: lived in the area, was found dead not too far
13:19
Speaker 2: from the same location Mozelle, that is the Murdoch Hunting Lodge,
13:26
Speaker 2: and the Murdoch family has been forever hounded my claims
13:31
Speaker 2: somehow they were part of this. And Stephen Smith's mother,
13:40
Speaker 2: Miss Smith, I want to thank you so much for
13:42
Speaker 2: being with us. First of all, I want you to
13:48
Speaker 2: tell us what it has been like for you to
13:54
Speaker 2: finally have been taken seriously regarding an all topsy for
14:01
Speaker 2: your son.
14:02
Speaker 6: Yeah. So at the beginning, it was just me crying,
14:07
Speaker 6: you know, with begging people and nobody would listen. And
14:13
Speaker 6: finally we got to go fund me to do what
14:16
Speaker 6: I've always wanted to do, and that was to get
14:19
Speaker 6: a second opinion on his autopsy. I was absolutely surprised
14:24
Speaker 6: of how quick to go. Fund me grew and we
14:29
Speaker 6: were able to take part of that money and start
14:32
Speaker 6: a scholarship in Stephen's name. And right now, that's the
14:36
Speaker 6: best part of this adventure that I've been going through with.
14:40
Speaker 2: Us, is Steven Smith's mother. You never believed he was
14:45
Speaker 2: hit by a car.
14:47
Speaker 6: Why because he wouldn't have been in the roads. He
14:51
Speaker 6: was very skittish of people, and if there was a
14:54
Speaker 6: car coming, he would have hit in that cornfield or
14:56
Speaker 6: and they would He would not have voluntarily walk down
15:00
Speaker 6: that highway. And he had a cell phone. He would
15:03
Speaker 6: have called his twin sister. His wallet was in the car,
15:07
Speaker 6: and if you're walking to go get gash, you would
15:10
Speaker 6: not leave your money in the car because the only
15:14
Speaker 6: thing on him was his cell phone and his car key.
15:16
Speaker 2: What happened the night that Stephen Smith was killed? His
15:21
Speaker 2: body found a stone's throw from the Murdog family hunting lodge.
15:28
Speaker 2: What do we know? Take a list at our cut
15:32
Speaker 2: sixty five.
15:33
Speaker 9: Neither Sandy Smith nor the investigators with the South Carolina
15:36
Speaker 9: Highway Patrol believed that Stephen Smith had been hit by
15:38
Speaker 9: a car. The initial incident report noted Smith had suffered
15:41
Speaker 9: blunt force trauma to the head, and while Smith's body
15:44
Speaker 9: was lying on the center lying of the roadway, the
15:47
Speaker 9: responding officer saw no evidence of a vehicle accident. His
15:50
Speaker 9: notes indicate there was no vehicle debris, skid marks, or
15:54
Speaker 9: injuries consistent with someone being struck by a vehicle. Also,
15:58
Speaker 9: Smith's shoes were on both his feet and loosely tied.
16:02
Speaker 9: After the pathologist autopsy, at least two investigators disagreed with
16:05
Speaker 9: the hit and run determination. Their notes also indicate the
16:08
Speaker 9: County corner disagreed with the finding as well.
16:11
Speaker 2: And there's more from the South Carolina Highway Patrol Lieutenant
16:16
Speaker 2: Thomas Moore speaks out.
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Speaker 9: A former South Carolina Highway Patrol Lieutenant Thomas Moore responded
16:22
Speaker 9: to the scene the day Stephen Smith's body was found
16:24
Speaker 9: on a Hampton County road, and he tells WJCL that
16:28
Speaker 9: he knew at the beginning the nineteen year old Smith
16:30
Speaker 9: was murdered. He further claims that sled, the sheriffs and
16:33
Speaker 9: the Hampton County Corner's office didn't do their jobs that day.
16:37
Speaker 9: It took new evidence in the murdaw murders to bring
16:40
Speaker 9: about a reclassification from the hit and run that Moore
16:43
Speaker 9: says was never right to the homicide that he believes
16:46
Speaker 9: it always should have been. Moore says it didn't appear
16:49
Speaker 9: Smith was hit by a car, his road rash was minor,
16:52
Speaker 9: his shoes were still on his feet. Moore says he
16:55
Speaker 9: took the case as far as he could and nothing
16:57
Speaker 9: happened until.
16:58
Speaker 2: Now with me and Allstar to make sense of what
17:01
Speaker 2: we're learning right now, including doctor Michelle Dupree, who oversaw
17:06
Speaker 2: the second autopsy on teen boys Stephen Smith, and Dodger
17:10
Speaker 2: Kenneth Kenzie, forensic expert in the Murdoch murder trial. He's
17:13
Speaker 2: shot to fame, then former Orangeburg County Chief deputy, now
17:19
Speaker 2: owner operator of Kenny Kenzie and associates former SLED special
17:24
Speaker 2: agent Dodger Kenneth Kenzie. What do you make of the
17:28
Speaker 2: findings that Steven's the original findings that Steven Smith died.
17:33
Speaker 10: Of a hit and run, Well, Nancy, I think I
17:36
Speaker 10: think that battle is a battle that's seen a lot
17:39
Speaker 10: in our state where you know, highway patrol, is it theirs,
17:43
Speaker 10: is it the Sheriff's office? Is it the local authorities?
17:46
Speaker 10: And I'm used to that battle and I'm not even
17:49
Speaker 10: going to say it's wrong because you're trying to ensure
17:51
Speaker 10: proper jurisdiction in an incident like this, and unfortunately it
17:56
Speaker 10: gets passed around because those jurisdictions and responsible abilities aren't
18:01
Speaker 10: highlighted enough in our legislation. But as far as Stephen
18:07
Speaker 10: death is concerned, this is an atypical incident. And though
18:13
Speaker 10: I agree, and you know, I come into this thing
18:15
Speaker 10: with an open mind, the evidence is what the evidence is.
18:19
Speaker 2: Okay, you didn't answer at all. Do you think he
18:22
Speaker 2: died of a hit and run or no? Let me
18:25
Speaker 2: help you along, doctor Kenneth Kenzie with doctor Michelle d Pre.
18:29
Speaker 2: I'm trying to politely cut you off before you give
18:31
Speaker 2: an answer you may want to change in five minutes.
18:35
Speaker 2: Oh but hey, before I got to doctor d Pre,
18:37
Speaker 2: Doctor Kenzie, I sat through the trial. I heard the evidence,
18:42
Speaker 2: and it's very difficult for me to believe that anyone
18:45
Speaker 2: of sound mind can actually believe that Alex Murdock is innocent.
18:51
Speaker 2: Now there's some wild kakamami theory floating around that he
18:55
Speaker 2: owed drug debts and that the you know, unnamed anonymous
19:03
Speaker 2: drug lord killed Maggie and Paul and made him watch. Okay,
19:11
Speaker 2: you don't think that big cry Baby would blurt that
19:14
Speaker 2: out between then and now mrnogue would he'd be telling
19:19
Speaker 2: that in a New York minute, Kenzie. It's just like
19:23
Speaker 2: the same thing with oj Simpson. Let's see, there's the
19:27
Speaker 2: theory that the son did it. There's a theory that
19:29
Speaker 2: dopers did it. Oh, there's so many theories. None of
19:33
Speaker 2: them are grounded in fact. Do you actually meet people,
19:36
Speaker 2: doctor Kenzie that believe Mernogue didn't do it.
19:40
Speaker 10: I do, Nancy, and generally their their thought process is
19:44
Speaker 10: a parent won't kill the child. And we know that's
19:47
Speaker 10: not true. We see it all the time.
19:49
Speaker 2: You know, I would go to Ronnie Richter right now,
19:51
Speaker 2: but I don't think I like what I would hear.
19:53
Speaker 2: Let me go to something grounded in fact, doctor Michelle
19:56
Speaker 2: Duprey joining me renew pathologist, medical examiner, form detective, author
20:01
Speaker 2: of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdoch Saga. The rest
20:06
Speaker 2: of the story. It's on Amazon. I've started reading your book,
20:10
Speaker 2: and sometimes it's painful, doctor dupre because I'm having to
20:13
Speaker 2: relive all the bs the defense floated during that trial.
20:17
Speaker 2: But that said, it's wonderfully written. You are also the
20:22
Speaker 2: author of Homicide investigation field Guide. Doctor Dupree, you supervised
20:31
Speaker 2: the second autopsy of teen boy Stephen Smith, and it
20:37
Speaker 2: took his mother, Sandy, who is with us, a years
20:42
Speaker 2: to get the money for a new autopsy. And if
20:48
Speaker 2: it had not been for the bland Richter Law firm,
20:52
Speaker 2: it may never have happened, because they really put it
20:56
Speaker 2: out there that she's trying to raise money. It did happen.
21:01
Speaker 2: Tell me, doctor Dupree, about exhuming his body, taking it
21:07
Speaker 2: for a new autopsy, and what, if anything you can
21:12
Speaker 2: tell us. First of all, tell me about the exhumation
21:16
Speaker 2: of the body.
21:16
Speaker 11: I thought it was going to be a very sad
21:18
Speaker 11: day and I was so surprised that it was not.
21:20
Speaker 11: It was a joyous occasion. Sandy was there, some family
21:23
Speaker 11: members were there. Of course, Sled was there at the
21:26
Speaker 11: funeral home, and she was so happy that this was
21:29
Speaker 11: actually happening. I just can't say enough about how strong
21:32
Speaker 11: she was. And the exclamation took place without incident. Slid
21:37
Speaker 11: was there. We took the body immediately from the cemetery
21:40
Speaker 11: in the vault that it was in. We took it
21:43
Speaker 11: to the vault company and took the casket out of
21:47
Speaker 11: the vault and immediately transported it with the Sled escort
21:51
Speaker 11: all the way to Tampa, Florida.
21:52
Speaker 2: Why didn't you feel that his body needed a Slid escort.
21:56
Speaker 11: Because we wanted to maintain a chain of custody. We
21:58
Speaker 11: didn't know what we were going to find, and we
21:59
Speaker 11: want we wanted to start from the beginning. We wanted
22:02
Speaker 11: to look at any and every possibility and not be
22:06
Speaker 11: clouded by oh, this is just an exhamation. We wanted
22:09
Speaker 11: to do this right, and we did.
22:10
Speaker 2: Tell me about the autopsy itself. Where was it conducted,
22:14
Speaker 2: how was it conducted, Tell me the whole thing.
22:16
Speaker 11: Okay, it was conducted in Tampa, Florida by a forensically
22:20
Speaker 11: trained pathologist. We took the body in the casket. We
22:27
Speaker 11: did not open the casket until we got to the
22:29
Speaker 11: facility where the autopsy would be done. Slid was there
22:33
Speaker 11: the entire time, as was I. We photographed everything, We
22:36
Speaker 11: documented every procedure and everything that was done. Sled was
22:40
Speaker 11: even in the autopsy suite during the autopsy, as was
22:44
Speaker 11: I taking the photographs and documenting the evidence. And we
22:48
Speaker 11: did a complete and when I say complete, I mean
22:51
Speaker 11: from head to toe. We did the exact same thing
22:54
Speaker 11: that you would do if it was the first autopsy.
22:56
Speaker 11: It was a little more difficult because of course the
22:59
Speaker 11: organs had already been examined, as had the body, But
23:02
Speaker 11: we were still able to get a complete and thorough
23:06
Speaker 11: second autopsy and get all the information that we needed.
23:09
Speaker 2: Who performed as you supervised? Who performed the autopsy?
23:14
Speaker 11: A forensic pathologist named Daniel Schultz in Tampa.
23:17
Speaker 2: And what is his background?
23:19
Speaker 11: He is again forensically trained in board certified. He has
23:23
Speaker 11: been in practice for several years. When I worked in Miami,
23:26
Speaker 11: I actually knew of him. I did not work with him,
23:29
Speaker 11: but he is well respected in the community and has
23:32
Speaker 11: been practicing for a long time.
23:34
Speaker 2: Are you happy with your results?
23:35
Speaker 11: Absolutely?
23:36
Speaker 2: And who else was in the room?
23:38
Speaker 11: There were fled agents that had accompanied us. Three flood
23:41
Speaker 11: agents accompanied us all the way from the grave site
23:45
Speaker 11: to Tampa and then all the way back to the
23:47
Speaker 11: grave site that same weekend.
23:48
Speaker 2: How long did the autopsy take? Doctor d Frees?
23:51
Speaker 11: The autopsy took approximately six hours, and after that we
23:56
Speaker 11: looked at the findings. We discussed the results that we
23:59
Speaker 11: had so far. Some tests were still pending and we
24:02
Speaker 11: received those at a later date and received a report
24:06
Speaker 11: from doctor Schultz, as well as I submitted my notes
24:09
Speaker 11: on she slid the same thing.
24:10
Speaker 2: Now, isn't it true that you found a seven and
24:14
Speaker 2: a half inch fracture on Stephen Smith's.
24:18
Speaker 11: Skull on his right forehead?
24:19
Speaker 2: Yes, on his right forehead. What's the significance of it
24:23
Speaker 2: being on his right front? Now you're saying his right front,
24:27
Speaker 2: not as you're looking at it, but his right front.
24:31
Speaker 11: That's correct, his right front, right.
24:33
Speaker 2: Above the eye, right above his right eye, going back
24:36
Speaker 2: or going to the side, going upward seven and a
24:40
Speaker 2: half inches. Is that correct?
24:42
Speaker 11: Yes?
24:43
Speaker 2: I know you said he's got a seven and a
24:45
Speaker 2: half inch skull fracture on the right side, starting above
24:50
Speaker 2: his right eye and going upward and backward. Did that
24:54
Speaker 2: cause a brain injury?
24:56
Speaker 11: That in and of itself did not?
24:58
Speaker 2: Did he have a brain inch?
25:00
Speaker 11: Yes?
25:00
Speaker 4: He did.
25:01
Speaker 2: Would that technically be the cause of death? Injury to
25:04
Speaker 2: the brain?
25:04
Speaker 11: Blunt force trauma? I had trauma that did cause jury
25:08
Speaker 11: to the brain.
25:08
Speaker 4: Yes.
25:09
Speaker 2: So when you have blunt force trauma to the skull
25:12
Speaker 2: and the brain, why does that kill you? Does the
25:15
Speaker 2: brain quit telling the body to perform it?
25:18
Speaker 11: Does? There's several different mechanisms, and the one in this
25:22
Speaker 11: case was because there was such a significant damage to
25:27
Speaker 11: be what we call the basilar skull, which is an
25:30
Speaker 11: inside where the brain sits on top of that skull
25:34
Speaker 11: was fractured like an eggshell, and so this was an
25:37
Speaker 11: unsurvivable event. It causes brain swelling, it causes some bleeding,
25:43
Speaker 11: it causes death almost instantaneously.
25:47
Speaker 2: To Sandy Smith, this is Stephen Smith's mother, You had
25:53
Speaker 2: long believed that your son Stephen had been tortured. Were
26:00
Speaker 2: you surprised by doctor Dupre's autopsy findings?
26:05
Speaker 6: I don't know much, but I do know that doctor
26:08
Speaker 6: Dupree told me and comforted me in knowing that Stephen
26:12
Speaker 6: was unconscious, so he didn't realize what was going on,
26:18
Speaker 6: and that kind of because I always thought he went
26:20
Speaker 6: through torture, you know. So she did put my heart
26:24
Speaker 6: to rest on that part knowing he didn't suffer.
26:28
Speaker 2: And what do you mean by that, doctor Duprie, that
26:31
Speaker 2: he didn't suffer, Nancy.
26:32
Speaker 11: When he was initially struck on the front of the
26:35
Speaker 11: head and pushed down to the pavement and a secondary
26:39
Speaker 11: fracture caused that significant damage, he would have been unconscious.
26:43
Speaker 11: We do think that he was breathing just for moments
26:46
Speaker 11: until his death.
26:47
Speaker 2: Sandy Smith, Stephen's mother, waited eight years to hear that,
26:53
Speaker 2: Miss Smith exactly.
26:56
Speaker 6: And it's like I waited eight years to hear those
27:00
Speaker 6: words that I was right, you know, not that I
27:03
Speaker 6: wanted to be right, but I wanted, you know, a
27:06
Speaker 6: little piece of my heart knowing that what I said
27:10
Speaker 6: was the truth. And now I have people in my
27:13
Speaker 6: corner that is willing to help fight for Stephen. Stephen
27:18
Speaker 6: says was not in vain. There's going to be some
27:21
Speaker 6: good that comes out of this.
27:22
Speaker 2: To Karen Start joining us or now psychologist, TV radio
27:26
Speaker 2: trauma expert and consultant at Karenstart dot Com, Karen with
27:30
Speaker 2: the Sea, Karen, it's horrible enough to lose someone you love,
27:37
Speaker 2: then to learn that you've lost them through a horrible,
27:41
Speaker 2: horrible act like the loss of teen boy Stephen Smith.
27:47
Speaker 2: Was he targeted because he's gay? Was he in a
27:50
Speaker 2: relationship with someone that wanted to keep it a secret?
27:53
Speaker 2: Is that why he was killed? What happened that night?
27:57
Speaker 2: Can you imagine Karen Stark not really knowing what happened
28:02
Speaker 2: to your child?
28:03
Speaker 12: Oh, I can't think of anything worse. We know, Nancy
28:06
Speaker 12: that when it comes to children, and that kind of death,
28:10
Speaker 12: of premature death.
28:11
Speaker 11: Your children are.
28:12
Speaker 12: Not supposed to die before you, They're supposed to outlive you,
28:17
Speaker 12: so torturous for her, and not knowing details, and really
28:23
Speaker 12: having that instinct that only a mother has that something happened,
28:27
Speaker 12: that it was different, that she really needed to know
28:31
Speaker 12: what the true facts were. So I think I can't
28:34
Speaker 12: think of anything worse than what you went through, honestly,
28:39
Speaker 12: And I'm so.
28:40
Speaker 2: Sorry Sandy Smith speaking out now that bland Richter, the
28:47
Speaker 2: law firm, has pushed her gofundmeate to get justice for
28:51
Speaker 2: her son. Doctor Michelle Duprey personally oversaw the autopsy. It
28:58
Speaker 2: had to be so incredible disappointing at the time for
29:03
Speaker 2: even people within the investigation in the pathologist office did
29:07
Speaker 2: not agree on your son's.
29:09
Speaker 6: Death right and it was I know, the maight teams,
29:15
Speaker 6: you know, tried, but they're not homicide investigators, so there
29:21
Speaker 6: was only little that they could really do. But my
29:25
Speaker 6: biggest problem was slid had his body and just turned
29:30
Speaker 6: it back over to the Highway Control knowing that it
29:34
Speaker 6: was not a hit RN. So I mean it was
29:37
Speaker 6: his death. Investigation was screwed up from the beginning and
29:42
Speaker 6: nobody answering my cause, you know, so I said, well,
29:46
Speaker 6: all right, the Department of Justice, all right, FBI, all right, whoever?
29:50
Speaker 6: I at you, because its death investigation is not getting
29:56
Speaker 6: the attention it needs. And here we are, eight years later,
30:00
Speaker 6: going on nine soon, and he's human. No matter whether
30:05
Speaker 6: he was gay straight, I didn't care. But he was
30:11
Speaker 6: my son and I loved him, and somebody took him
30:16
Speaker 6: from me, and I was gonna fight, and I will
30:20
Speaker 6: fight until I take my last breath.
30:22
Speaker 2: They struggle for eight years to get the second autopsy,
30:27
Speaker 2: had to take a horrible, horrible toll on you.
30:31
Speaker 6: It's been hard and struggle. But now that I've gotten
30:35
Speaker 6: that second autopsy and a new team working his chased
30:41
Speaker 6: steel a little bit more at ease, put that part
30:45
Speaker 6: of my heart I'll never get back.
31:00
Speaker 1: I'm stories with Nancy Grace.
31:05
Speaker 2: Joining me is Todd G. Shipley, digital cybercrime expert, former
31:11
Speaker 2: detective sergeant author. I'm investigating Internet crimes and introduction to
31:17
Speaker 2: Solving Crimes in Cyberspace. Todd Shipley, thank you for being
31:21
Speaker 2: with us. You can find him at dark intel dot info. Todd,
31:26
Speaker 2: how could and it's eight years later? How could digital
31:31
Speaker 2: evidence help improve what happened in the Steven Smith case.
31:35
Speaker 8: Well, from reviewing the publicly available documents, there's a lot
31:40
Speaker 8: that probably could be determined from it. The phone still exists.
31:44
Speaker 8: I don't know where the other items still exist, the iPad,
31:48
Speaker 8: the computer that are listed as evidence, but I didn't
31:51
Speaker 8: find reports of law enforcement actually going through those things
31:54
Speaker 8: to determine any potential probable cause for why this occurred.
32:02
Speaker 8: There's a whole lot of events I think it can
32:04
Speaker 8: glean from it. It was unfortunate though, that in reviewing
32:07
Speaker 8: the reports that they made requests six months later for
32:09
Speaker 8: some of the information from Verizon that should have been
32:13
Speaker 8: appropriately requested at the time, because the records they're looking
32:17
Speaker 8: for don't last on those networks very long, and so
32:22
Speaker 8: I didn't see a great effort by law enforcement to
32:26
Speaker 8: identify the potential for this digital elevens to show where
32:31
Speaker 8: he was that night, and the cell phone was going
32:33
Speaker 8: to show that. I know there was some looking at
32:36
Speaker 8: a social media too. There's a whole lot of information
32:39
Speaker 8: that was not obtained that could be very instrumental and
32:44
Speaker 8: identifying what occurred that night.
32:45
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, straight out to doctor Kenneth Kenzie, forensic expert
32:50
Speaker 2: in the Murdoch murder trial, former county chief Deputy in
32:55
Speaker 2: Orangeburg and now owner operator Kenny Kensey and associate's LLC
33:01
Speaker 2: doctor Kinsey. What do you make of that? Is there
33:03
Speaker 2: any way to put Humpty Dumpty back together again? Eight
33:06
Speaker 2: years later?
33:07
Speaker 10: Nancy is always valigible and someone knows some details. Definitely
33:12
Speaker 10: the computer work and the data on those devices, it's
33:17
Speaker 10: always there. I mean, it does go away, but I
33:20
Speaker 10: mean there are people that know. And as I've said
33:23
Speaker 10: all along, there's someone out there that knows the details of.
33:26
Speaker 2: This, but that's someone has been out there all along.
33:29
Speaker 2: To Ronnie Richter, the someone that knows what happened to
33:32
Speaker 2: Steven Smith has been out there for eight years and
33:35
Speaker 2: hasn't come forward. So how were were going to dig
33:37
Speaker 2: him up now? Ronnie?
33:38
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's going to be the worst kept
33:40
Speaker 5: secret in Hampton County. So whether it's one or more
33:43
Speaker 5: people who are involved in this, it's a secret that
33:47
Speaker 5: would be too big to keep. So we know that
33:49
Speaker 5: whoever was involved has told other people. And I think
33:53
Speaker 5: the push here is that with as much pressure as
33:55
Speaker 5: you can apply, it's someone to break. Finally, I mean,
34:00
Speaker 5: if there are people out there with material information and
34:02
Speaker 5: they are not forthcoming, they could face their own charges
34:05
Speaker 5: for instruction. So that's kind of the approach. When we
34:10
Speaker 5: got engaged with Sandy, and we've met her a long
34:12
Speaker 5: time ago with Ciderfield family, and she broke our hearts,
34:16
Speaker 5: but we finally got engaged, the approach was, let's just
34:18
Speaker 5: try to start from zero, you know, let's ex zoom
34:21
Speaker 5: his body. Let's get the best team we can to
34:23
Speaker 5: doctor Breed, doctor Kinzie. Let's start as if this was
34:27
Speaker 5: the beginning of the investigation. And I will say that
34:30
Speaker 5: Sledd has poured all his resources back into this, and
34:33
Speaker 5: we know that they're engaged and hopefully, with time and pressure,
34:36
Speaker 5: somebody's going to break.
34:37
Speaker 11: Man.
34:37
Speaker 2: I hope you're right. And of course there's always the
34:40
Speaker 2: rumor swirling that somehow the Murlach family is involved, and
34:46
Speaker 2: there are so many dead bodies connected to the Murdaud family,
34:50
Speaker 2: and let's just say it's not a leap of fate
34:52
Speaker 2: to think that somehow they're involved, and especially with Stephens's
34:56
Speaker 2: body being found not too far from Mosia the Murdoch
35:00
Speaker 2: hunting lodge. But so far, that's all it is. Rumors.
35:05
Speaker 2: Can't try a case on rumors and everyone searching for answers,
35:11
Speaker 2: including Stephen's mother, Miss Sandy Smith. What do you make
35:16
Speaker 2: of it, Sandy?
35:16
Speaker 6: Well, when I first heard that it was the Murdock boys,
35:20
Speaker 6: there's a bunch of Murdock boys, I didn't know which
35:23
Speaker 6: group of Murdochs they were talking about until Buster's name
35:28
Speaker 6: kept coming up, and in my mind, I didn't see
35:32
Speaker 6: any reason why that's family would even be associated with
35:38
Speaker 6: my son. I meant, Stephen and Stephane went to school
35:42
Speaker 6: with Buster, and then Paul's name come up. I never
35:46
Speaker 6: even knew Paul existed. So it was like, when rumors start,
35:53
Speaker 6: there's a source behind the rumors, and maybe the person
35:57
Speaker 6: who started the rumor knows more than anybody else.
36:01
Speaker 2: Well that's true. So as you're saying, as Ronnie Richter
36:05
Speaker 2: is saying, if the rumor's not true, and there's a
36:09
Speaker 2: very big chance it's not true, we can't confirm it.
36:12
Speaker 2: You have to look at who started that rumor pointing
36:16
Speaker 2: to a Murdod being involved Buster specifically, who has denied
36:21
Speaker 2: any involvement, and figure out why that person is trying
36:25
Speaker 2: to point at Buster Murdoch, because again, it's all just rumors.
36:30
Speaker 2: Miss Smith, I have no facts.
36:32
Speaker 6: All I have is people telling me and telling the
36:38
Speaker 6: world they're putting up. And I don't see the reason
36:41
Speaker 6: why you would ruin somebody's reputation. But my thing is
36:46
Speaker 6: about the Murdoch's is you had eight years so far,
36:52
Speaker 6: but if somebody would have brought my son's name up
36:57
Speaker 6: into a homicide, would be doing everything I could to
37:02
Speaker 6: clear his name. And they did nothing until Sled reopened
37:08
Speaker 6: the case, and they still didn't say anything. And then
37:15
Speaker 6: it was when Fled was making the announcement that it
37:18
Speaker 6: was a homicide that Buster comes up with a stupid letter.
37:24
Speaker 6: The letter was him saying that he didn't have nothing
37:28
Speaker 6: to do with Stephen's death. You had eight years to
37:31
Speaker 6: do that, and you wait until attentions on Stephen to
37:34
Speaker 6: write that stupid letter. I don't even know if he
37:37
Speaker 6: wrote it. I think Jim wrote it. And then you're
37:41
Speaker 6: going to get on TV. You know, it just makes
37:43
Speaker 6: no sense. You had eight years.
37:45
Speaker 5: To do that.
37:46
Speaker 6: I would have been clearing my child's name. I keep
37:49
Speaker 6: sweeping it under the rug, and I felt they were
37:53
Speaker 6: really heartless by doing that to take away from Stephen
37:57
Speaker 6: to now all of a sudden, you want to clear
37:59
Speaker 6: your name. Why didn't you do that at the beginning
38:02
Speaker 6: when your son's name come up the first time?
38:04
Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer Wood, director of research at Fitzanes who's been
38:07
Speaker 2: on the case from the very beginning, Jennifer, and may
38:11
Speaker 2: have had to do with the last thing Alex Murdog
38:14
Speaker 2: or Maggie wanted to do is speak out and bring
38:17
Speaker 2: attention to themselves in any way, because all of Alex
38:21
Speaker 2: Murdog's dirty laundry would then be forced into the public.
38:25
Speaker 2: You want to just keep his head down and keep
38:27
Speaker 2: doing drugs.
38:28
Speaker 11: That's a really good point.
38:29
Speaker 3: I mean, that could be exactly why they didn't say anything.
38:32
Speaker 2: Another issue, Jennifer Wood joining us from fitznews dot com
38:37
Speaker 2: is the whole jury tampering claim is slowing down the
38:41
Speaker 2: sled investigation into the death of Stephen Smith. Would you
38:45
Speaker 2: agree with that?
38:46
Speaker 3: I would hope SLEDD has enough agents to handle both
38:49
Speaker 3: investigations simultaneously, but it does seem to be slowing things
38:53
Speaker 3: down quite a bit.
38:54
Speaker 2: Miss Smith. I can't help but believe that a jury
39:00
Speaker 2: tampering investigation which is going to require an evidentiary here,
39:03
Speaker 2: which means both sides have to get ready and go
39:05
Speaker 2: to court with witnesses. That's going to be a big deal.
39:10
Speaker 2: I don't know if that will be open court or
39:12
Speaker 2: in camera. We'll ask Ronnie Richter that in camera means
39:16
Speaker 2: behind closed doors with the judge. But I know that
39:19
Speaker 2: you feel very strongly that with the second autopsy you
39:23
Speaker 2: are going to get justice. Is that correct?
39:26
Speaker 6: I do believe that with Almahart. My attorney Eric talked
39:31
Speaker 6: to cheap Keel and he reassured us that they are
39:37
Speaker 6: still working this case. It's just been slow because of
39:40
Speaker 6: the very tamper and stuff. And then so slig was
39:45
Speaker 6: taken off a Steven to interview all those people, the jurors.
39:50
Speaker 6: But Emma Hart, I know that they're doing what they
39:54
Speaker 6: can to get this solved, and I know they have
39:57
Speaker 6: a grand jury and pandled and then I'm just waiting
40:01
Speaker 6: on that one little truth to pomp out so a
40:06
Speaker 6: rest can be made.
40:07
Speaker 2: And what are your thoughts about the fact that there
40:11
Speaker 2: are two people of interest right now?
40:15
Speaker 6: I really don't know if they had anything to do
40:19
Speaker 6: with it, but I know there's somebody out there that
40:22
Speaker 6: knows something, and I know that they're probably parents now
40:28
Speaker 6: and they wouldn't want this to go through. What I'm
40:31
Speaker 6: going through, and I don't want them to go through
40:33
Speaker 6: what I'm boring through. But now they need to put
40:36
Speaker 6: their self in my shoes because you might be a mother,
40:41
Speaker 6: you might be a father, and I pray that if
40:45
Speaker 6: you know something that you're gonna say something to just
40:50
Speaker 6: expose it. I'm gonna be mattered. Stephen matter, and it's
40:55
Speaker 6: like ripped our family apart, but we're still holding on
41:00
Speaker 6: for justice. I would like to thank all of the
41:08
Speaker 6: people who have supported Stephen and it's still supporting statement's story.
41:17
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, what can you tell me about two possible
41:22
Speaker 2: persons of interest in the Steven Smith murder?
41:25
Speaker 3: So we have heard that the investigation has focused on
41:28
Speaker 3: two possible persons of interest. Whether or not they've gone
41:32
Speaker 3: in front of grand jury, we don't know because grand
41:35
Speaker 3: jury proceedings are secret. But you know, I think this
41:39
Speaker 3: case is going to come down to somebody saying something.
41:42
Speaker 3: Somebody knows what happened that night. I think more than
41:45
Speaker 3: one somebody knows.
41:47
Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter, I agree or disagree.
41:48
Speaker 5: One hundred percent agree. Yeah, more than one person knows.
41:51
Speaker 5: We've heard the same thing about two persons of interest.
41:54
Speaker 5: The grand jury is a Star Chamber in South Carolina,
41:57
Speaker 5: so we would never know when it's going to happen.
41:59
Speaker 5: But yeah, the hope is again that somebody breaks and
42:01
Speaker 5: finally does the right thing and shares what they know.
42:04
Speaker 2: Todd Shipley, digital cybercrime expert. If there are two Paise
42:09
Speaker 2: persons of interest, can't we go back to that night
42:12
Speaker 2: and trace their phones to find out where they were?
42:15
Speaker 8: Well, that ends up being a little more difficult because
42:17
Speaker 8: we don't have those probably in evidence now, and people
42:20
Speaker 8: tend to change their phones, you know, over time, so
42:24
Speaker 8: we may not be able to have that kind of
42:26
Speaker 8: evidence on them specifically. But the existing phone is there,
42:30
Speaker 8: and the contacts in that phone are there. There's a
42:34
Speaker 8: lot of information that I haven't seen yet that I
42:36
Speaker 8: don't understand why law enforcement isn't tracing it down, because
42:40
Speaker 8: that's going to show The phone will show where he
42:42
Speaker 8: was and who he had contact with. Because we all
42:44
Speaker 8: live and die buy our phones now and so that
42:46
Speaker 8: information is going to be there if we look for it,
42:49
Speaker 8: and we haven't seen it yet.
42:50
Speaker 2: John Michelle Duprey joining us again, who oversaw the new
42:55
Speaker 2: autopsy on Team Boys. Steven Smith, you know there's never
43:00
Speaker 2: a dull moment. Let me say, in the Alex Murnage saga,
43:05
Speaker 2: there's always a new twist and turn, and they are
43:08
Speaker 2: going to be mashing their teeth and twitching their tails
43:11
Speaker 2: to get a new trial for Alex Murdague. I bet
43:13
Speaker 2: you anything. After I sat through his testimony in the
43:16
Speaker 2: first trial, I guarantee he will not take the stand
43:18
Speaker 2: a second time. But doctor Dupriy, regarding Stephen Smith, you
43:22
Speaker 2: say there's a nearly eight inch fracture to his head.
43:26
Speaker 2: What do you believe it was caused by Nanjay?
43:29
Speaker 11: I believe that it was caused by something on a
43:32
Speaker 11: vehicle again, a ladder, a extended mirror, even maybe something
43:39
Speaker 11: like a hook on a wrecker, something on a vehicle,
43:42
Speaker 11: but not the vehicle.
43:43
Speaker 2: Itself, because he wasn't harmed from the head down. It
43:47
Speaker 2: was just if he was hit by a car, there
43:49
Speaker 2: would be trauma all over his body. But it's just
43:52
Speaker 2: the skull fracture. Well, isn't that by definition of hit
43:55
Speaker 2: and run?
43:56
Speaker 11: It is, and so that is that is the proper
43:59
Speaker 11: designation for the death certificate. It is just that it
44:02
Speaker 11: is a.
44:02
Speaker 2: Typical in this case, a typical one.
44:05
Speaker 11: Because the vehicle is south did not hit him.
44:08
Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with that, Ronnie Richtor.
44:10
Speaker 2: I mean, if a part of a vehicle hits somebody,
44:12
Speaker 2: that's still us hit and run.
44:15
Speaker 5: Well, it's also called leaving the scene of an accident
44:17
Speaker 5: involving grave burning injury, which is a very serious felony
44:21
Speaker 5: in South Carolina.
44:22
Speaker 2: So it's also called vehicular homicide. Has everybody lost their mind?
44:25
Speaker 2: But heculer homicide.
44:27
Speaker 5: We're saying the same thing. It's a very serious felony
44:29
Speaker 5: in South Carolina, and whether there was intent to murder
44:33
Speaker 5: Stephen or not is a different issue. It would be
44:36
Speaker 5: impossible not to know that you struck him, not to
44:39
Speaker 5: know that you cause serious injury.
44:40
Speaker 2: And Ronnie Rictor, don't tune up police that same tired song,
44:46
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to, no intent. You run somebody over,
44:50
Speaker 2: they're lying in the street, the road, dying in the
44:54
Speaker 2: middle of the night, and you take off. Oh HG
44:57
Speaker 2: double L.
44:59
Speaker 11: J.
45:00
Speaker 2: Going to get that person, no matter how much they
45:02
Speaker 2: cry and carry on that they didn't mean to. They
45:05
Speaker 2: have put his mother through hell for eight years and
45:09
Speaker 2: that's exactly where they're going to go. So Jennifer Wood
45:13
Speaker 2: direct to research fit neys. It's left really on Steven
45:17
Speaker 2: Smith's case. Do I need to light another fire under
45:20
Speaker 2: somebody's tail.
45:21
Speaker 3: I can keep lighting the fires, but you know, I
45:24
Speaker 3: do think they are actively working this one.
45:26
Speaker 2: Okay, Nancy please jump in, Karen start well.
45:30
Speaker 12: But I think the most relevant thing here is what
45:34
Speaker 12: his mom said, which is that Stephen matters.
45:38
Speaker 3: He mattered, and he matters.
45:40
Speaker 12: That's really important. Nobody paid enough attention to this boy,
45:46
Speaker 12: and that's it's just not acceptable, and it's excellent that
45:53
Speaker 12: they're doing it now because he matters, he does matter.
45:57
Speaker 2: We wait as the evidence unfolds. Goodbye friend,