Latest / San Joaquin Sound / Bakersfield Women's Music Festival; 1984-85 with Colette Shewcraft, Sylvia Simms, and Gloria Dumler

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Bakersfield Women's Music Festival; 1984-85 with Colette Shewcraft, Sylvia Simms, and Gloria Dumler · San Joaquin Sound

0:03
This is Colette Shewcraft in 1984, singing an
0:07
original tune at the Bakersfield Women's Music
0:09
Festival. For episode 20 of the San Joaquin Sound
0:13
podcast, I interviewed Colette along with Sylvia
0:16
Simms and Gloria Dumler, who all had different
0:19
roles in the festival. As a content warning,
0:22
this episode discusses instances of murder, police
0:26
brutality, assault, and self -harm. So let's
0:58
start and talk a little bit about growing up
1:00
in Bakersfield and the other places you might
1:03
have grown up. And please introduce yourself.
1:05
My name is Colette Shewcraft. I was born in Delano
1:08
and then just kind of. followed my dad around.
1:12
You know, he moved us to a lot of places, San
1:14
Francisco, to Larry, back up to Woody, where
1:18
he owned a bar where I began my musical career
1:21
when I was three. And then we came back to Glenville
1:23
in 64, and where I went to North High for one
1:27
year and graduated. So I know your dad, Monty,
1:31
played trumpet, piano, guitar, ukulele, and he
1:34
wrote his own songs. Was he the one who taught
1:36
you how to play guitar? Actually, no. Not until
1:40
I graduated and I was living with my grandmother
1:44
in Delano, and I was so friggin' bored, I saw
1:49
a guitar hanging on the wall, and she says, that's
1:51
your great Aunt Mart's. And I said, well, can
1:54
I get it down and play it? And she said, yeah.
1:57
So in my little bedroom, I just plucked, young
2:01
blood, two strings, and I wrote a whole song
2:04
with two strings. And then... I taught myself.
2:08
And then, of course, I'd ask him, show me a chord.
2:11
But I'm totally self -taught, which is very evident
2:14
when I play with a band. Can you tell me about
2:19
performing at the Blackboard? Oh, yeah. It's
2:23
funny, because I was just thinking about that
2:24
day. I have a trophy that I won there with Bill
2:28
Woods, and singing helped me make it through
2:31
the night. I'll be damned. And I used to go there
2:35
and dance. And sing along with the band, like
2:40
stand below the stage and sing with them type
2:42
of thing. And play poker in one little stuffy
2:48
back room. Took more money off of me before I
2:53
knew how to play, but thought I knew everything
2:55
about poker. And then I thought, why not sing
2:58
other places? When I was 18, I moved to Colorado
3:02
Springs. And one of the ways that I made money
3:06
was just walking in a bar, sitting down, putting
3:10
a tip jar up and ask the guy, can I play some
3:13
tunes? Yeah, I started doing fairs, then the
3:16
bars around here, and then I had a band, and
3:18
we would play all in with the band. So music's
3:22
been a huge part of my life, plus writing my
3:25
own music, which, you know, is really cathartic,
3:30
to say the least. I had teachers that called
3:34
me up and said, could you come into my class
3:37
and teach people about writing music, singing
3:41
and writing music? I enjoy doing that. I enjoy
3:44
teaching. That's awesome. I've done a lot of
3:46
that, too. But I've been in a lot of phases,
3:49
Native American phase, when I found out I was
3:52
Indian or part Indian. I'm a very creative person.
3:55
Yeah, so you played the Native American flute,
3:58
too. Yeah, I played the Native American flute.
4:00
Beautifully. Ugh, they're gorgeous. I'm Gloria
4:06
Demler, and I grew up in Bakersfield. And I was
4:09
very lucky in that I was a very shy bookworm
4:12
when I was young. I also loved old movies. But
4:15
when you are a reading addict, you know a lot
4:19
more about the big world, a lot more than just
4:22
Bakersfield. And I think reading authors from
4:25
all over the place sort of broadened my horizons.
4:29
I really wasn't, I think, cursed by... Being
4:32
in Bakersfield and having only that to experience.
4:36
In fact, I can remember in high school discovering
4:38
a book by James Baldwin, an acclaimed black author,
4:43
a gay man. It was called Giovanni's Room. I have
4:46
no idea how I stumbled across it, but it was
4:49
brilliant. And it was the first novel I ever
4:52
read about gay people. It wasn't until later
4:55
that I found out that Baldwin himself was gay
4:58
and that he was black because everybody in the
5:01
novel is white. And I think he made that choice
5:03
because he wanted the focus to be on the lives
5:07
of these men. But that was world -opening to
5:10
me and so on. And in high school, I made two
5:13
very close friends who were very open -minded.
5:15
And that's when I began to realize that I was
5:18
capable of developing crushes on girls as well
5:22
as boys. And they were very accepting of this.
5:26
And so in a sense, I didn't have to go through
5:29
a lot of the crap that a lot of people of this
5:32
identity do have to go to in Bakersfield. But
5:35
again, like I said, compared to a lot of people,
5:38
my Bakersfield childhood was lucky. I know that
5:41
you maybe don't play an instrument or sing, but
5:44
I did see that you did ballet. Oh, that's musical,
5:47
right? Yeah, I loved ballet. I absolutely adored
5:51
it. I had the most wonderful teacher in the world,
5:55
Roberta. She was marvelous. And they incorporated
5:58
not just ballet, but acrobatics and tap dance.
6:02
I loved it. That's great. So, yeah, I could listen
6:05
to music and follow. Gloria was a promoter, a
6:09
supporter, and a fan of all of us. Yeah. And
6:13
a teacher. Yeah, that was my main contribution.
6:15
So she had a different kind of music that she
6:19
played. Yeah. And she wrote and she wrote and
6:23
she published newspapers. And we got a lot of
6:27
information out because of Gloria. When the Internet
6:31
was not the primary mode of communication about
6:33
everything, I did an actual print newsletter
6:37
called the Gay Community News. And I love the
6:40
fact that the Kern County Library happily would
6:42
display copies that I would drop off and so on.
6:45
So there was a lot of support in the community.
6:48
That's good. Well, I'm the outlander from these
6:51
two because I'm not from California. My name
6:54
is Sylvia Sims, and I grew up in southern Ohio
6:58
near the Mason -Dixon line. So when I finally
7:02
came here, it was all kind of familiar. I had
7:07
hoped it was going to be different, but it wasn't.
7:10
So I went to school in Ohio and Illinois and
7:14
in Indiana, and I finished my education at Miami
7:17
University. in Ohio, and then I came to teach
7:22
in Bakersfield in 1968 with my, well, my then
7:26
-girlfriend, but we were definitely not out to
7:29
even ourselves because we didn't even know what
7:32
the word gay or homosexual was really referring
7:36
to, that it was referring to us. And when we
7:40
got TV and looked on at the Stonewall Rebellion,
7:46
in New York, and we looked at each other and
7:48
said, look at those people. They look kind of
7:52
strange because I'm from Ohio. When I saw the
7:55
hippies asking for bread on the street or in
7:59
the mountains in their togas and their sheets
8:02
or whatever they were wearing and their long
8:04
hair, I said, where did these people come from?
8:07
I had no idea. So I had a lot of growing up to
8:10
do from my own brand of naivete. And that was
8:15
kind of my first inkling that I was not like
8:20
everybody else. No wonder I wasn't interested
8:22
in dating boys. So I came to California to teach
8:26
Spanish, and I taught at North High. And then
8:28
I went to South High. Then after Stonewall, in
8:33
about 1976, I had gone to Portland to visit a
8:38
friend, and at that juncture... She took me to
8:42
this MCC church where they were singing, and
8:45
they were all open about being gay, and my family
8:49
had an evangelical background. My grandpa was
8:53
a Methodist minister back in West Virginia, and
8:56
he would travel all around, and he was a hellfire
9:00
and brimstone kind of guy who, well, I even saw
9:04
him once, got red in the face. passed out on
9:08
the pulpit so you know what kind of background
9:11
that was but I didn't I grew up Methodist but
9:14
not that brand and so when I got involved with
9:18
the MCC in Portland I went oh my goodness these
9:21
are lots of gay people and they're so happy and
9:24
they sing and wouldn't that be lovely so I got
9:27
back to Bakersfield and made a few phone calls
9:30
and got in touch with somebody from the bars.
9:35
Her name was Lou Talley. Oh, my God. And we made
9:39
the phone call down to L .A. and got in touch
9:42
with Troy Perry and Bob Arthur, who were rather
9:50
up in the administration of the MCC Church, Metropolitan
9:55
Community Church. And they started sending a
9:58
pastor, and that was in 1978. I think. And he
10:04
would come. We met in the living room in Oildale,
10:07
down the street from where Colette and Gloria
10:10
were. I had no idea. And then we heard about
10:17
this group that was having a consciousness raising
10:20
and rap group. So that was at Colette's house.
10:25
on Francis Street, and we took our little group
10:29
and went down there and met with them, and that
10:31
was actually the beginning of a great experience
10:35
with the most fabulous people, and some not as
10:38
fabulous as others, but by and large, they were
10:41
wonderful human beings who were struggling with
10:44
being gay, and from there, we met, we grew, we
10:50
had a church, and it met in a... Bird house.
10:55
They sold birds. And so we actually over on Alta
11:01
Vista and then we got evicted from that because
11:05
the fellow who was renting us this place to meet
11:08
on Sunday didn't tell his landlord that we were
11:11
there. And so he had to leave and we stayed.
11:15
He got evicted. And then we moved across the
11:18
alley to what had been a... for a clothing store
11:25
that was nearby, and we renovated that, and then
11:30
we were meeting there until early 2000. The mingling
11:36
of that group that met at my house also went
11:40
on with MCC with you. Yes, it was a great mingling
11:45
of all these different people with different...
11:50
And we supported each other. And that's from
11:53
MCC. The Bakersfield Women's Group started meeting
11:55
on, I think it was Tuesday nights in the 80s,
11:59
81 or 82. 82, I think. And that was led by Julia
12:07
Avatar and Carol Ayer. So that's where I could.
12:13
Came into the 80s, and that's my background.
12:17
And I was still teaching, and I was still in
12:19
the closet until I got my face in the paper a
12:22
few times. Well, that was that. In the interim,
12:26
I accidentally got married and had a couple of
12:31
kids. And so coming out with them in the picture
12:36
was a difficult dilemma. But they've adapted
12:42
very well. so far and i have had six great grandchildren
12:46
now so i that that was of course this was all
12:51
in the early 70s i was uh playing at michael's
12:57
which is uh i don't know it looks like a bank
13:00
it probably was a bank but they cleaned cleaned
13:02
it up down there it's on the corner of chester
13:05
and 18th and they had a real nice little bar
13:08
upstairs and and i i was a respiratory therapist
13:13
And before I went to work, I did a couple of
13:16
sets at Michael's. And they had a restaurant
13:22
back then. It was an Oriental restaurant, but
13:24
the girls had to wear tuxes. Only, you know,
13:30
I mean, women tuxes, very low. cut very like
13:36
very sexy yeah and this woman would come in and
13:41
she'd listen to me and she would just you know
13:43
just adoringly and and and i had kind of suspected
13:47
that i was gay from the time i was in third grade
13:50
but just i was strong catholic i went to be a
13:56
nun Anyway, so I had a real strong religious
14:01
background, real strong Catholic family. So this
14:04
just was not in the Catholic religion. So she
14:08
came up to me and she said, are you gay? And
14:12
I said, no, I'm Colette. That's how naive I was.
14:18
And she said, can I take you someplace after
14:21
work? I said, okay, because I didn't have to
14:23
go to the hospital that night. So she took me
14:25
around the corner, down the street. Took me down
14:29
those stairs, and, I mean, I just wept. The cellar.
14:32
I mean, I'm thinking about it now. I'm emotional,
14:35
but I wept. At the cellar. I'm fucking home.
14:38
Yeah. Mm -hmm. I loved those days. I love that.
14:41
That was probably my favorite place in town those
14:45
days because it was so friendly and open. When
14:48
I used to work my exalted job as a sales girl
14:51
at Broadway and Brocks and things like that and
14:54
often have a night shift on the way home to that
14:57
little studio apartment I rented on Francis Street.
15:01
But I could drop in there and feel completely
15:03
welcome even when there were only guys there.
15:06
It was a very open, open, fun place. I'd dance
15:10
a while. I enjoyed talking to people. And of
15:13
course I liked it when women were there too.
15:15
But those were really good days as far as that
15:18
social area was. And back then, right, in Bakersfield,
15:23
bars were the only place to socialize for gay
15:25
people, right? That you could go out and meet
15:28
other gay people? Yeah, unless it was something
15:30
like... Well, obviously parties where people
15:33
knew each other, but the only place to go, as
15:37
it were, and meet new people. Well, MCC also
15:40
worked at opening up our welcome to have different
15:45
events. We had Colette helped with coffee houses,
15:48
and then we'd have parties, and we'd have a lot
15:52
of dancing and a lot of fun. We laughed a lot.
15:56
A lot of videos of that. Another thing I want
15:58
people to understand is what it was like to be
16:01
gay in Bakersfield, too, because you're doing
16:05
all this activism that really matters, but it's
16:08
in contrast to what the police is doing, right?
16:12
Yes. I remember that the cellar got raided several
16:17
times, and people were attacked by the police.
16:21
Mostly gay men. Gay men outside the bar at the
16:25
late hours of the night. That would have been
16:27
in the 80s. Then we had the Tayak murders, the
16:31
men that got stranded on the road. And a man
16:34
named Tayak shot both of them. He was a tire
16:37
salesman. In the back. Well, one of them, I think,
16:40
was shot twice in the front, then twice in the
16:43
back, and the other in the back. And he was acquitted.
16:47
It was acquitted. Self -defense. Yep. Yeah, that
16:50
was in the 80s, and that was one of our first
16:52
protests that I was involved in. I believe he
16:55
did get convicted of... maybe one or two misdemeanors,
16:59
but not murder, first degree or second degree.
17:03
He was forbidden to own guns after that, but
17:06
when police a few years later did a raid and
17:10
found a whole bunch of guns and confiscated them,
17:12
I remember somebody in the Californian writing
17:14
that, well, the three strikes law, he'll have
17:16
to go back to prison, not realizing that he didn't,
17:20
that was not a third strike. No, he had no...
17:23
It was considered self -defense, even though
17:26
these gay boys or young men were unarmed. That
17:30
pretty much pissed a lot of us off. Oh, very
17:33
much so. And it scared a lot of us. But it scared
17:36
us so much that we wanted to prevent it somehow.
17:39
Yeah. Nobody was around. They were up outside
17:42
of Bakersfield. These two young men were planning
17:45
on doing a gay dude ranch. ran into the back
17:51
of their vehicle. That was up where I was living
17:52
at the time. Okay, gotcha. Ran in the back of
17:53
their vehicle, claiming that it was an accident.
17:56
And I can remember a friend of mine who was a
17:58
fireman was out there going, it was uphill. You
18:02
know, he had to have done it deliberately. And,
18:04
of course, he had guns. And he was going, oh,
18:06
I was terrified. And there used to be something
18:08
called, what was it, homosexual panic that was
18:11
used as an excuse if a person was confronted
18:14
by a homosexual. It's the equivalent of what
18:17
some white people do. Oh, that black person looked
18:21
terrifying. Was that my door? Yeah. So, yeah,
18:25
Tayak got away with it. I did notice that even
18:29
among stray people, there were a lot of people
18:31
who were pretty damn horrified that with a murder
18:34
this obvious, this cold -blooded, that he had
18:38
gotten away with this. So it helped shift things
18:41
in a good direction, too, in some ways for some
18:46
people. It kind of made people realize what a
18:50
double standard is, putting it mildly. When I
18:55
first came out after, My excursion down at the
18:59
solar, and then that's when I started trying
19:02
to find like -minded people. I used to go to
19:05
the zoo, and the police would be there right
19:11
at 2 o 'clock, 2 a .m., and they'd wait for you
19:15
to come out, and they'd wait for you to get in
19:18
your car, and then they'd wait for you to back
19:21
up and then drive off, and then they'd pull you
19:24
over. and arrest you for drunk driving. And so
19:28
they baited you. They harassed you at the bar
19:38
and would say things to you to try and make you
19:41
get mad at them and hit them, and then they could
19:44
arrest you. They were aggravating and harassing
19:47
like that. It made most of us angrier. I think
19:53
that just made us angrier. And then we would
19:55
take precautions. And I think we were probably
19:57
the first ones that decided designated drivers
20:00
because they couldn't arrest you if you hadn't
20:03
been drinking. So we started with designated
20:05
drivers and having more parties at home. At my
20:11
house. Great place. And within walking distance
20:15
for me for a long time. But yeah, it was scary.
20:23
I still don't really trust cops for a lot of
20:27
reasons, but I still... I think somewhere in
20:32
the marrow, we still have that fear that somebody
20:37
is going to, like, see you, you know, and beat
20:40
you up because you're gay. I had a cross burned
20:43
on my lawn. They poisoned my dog. You know, and
20:48
when I say not a cross, they just... Burnt into
20:51
my lawn across. And then, of course, poisoned
20:54
my dog, Lassie. And, you know, it was shit like
20:59
that. When I was in the Gay -Straight Alliance
21:01
at Cal State, I had to change my number unlisted
21:06
because I would get obscene phone calls, harassing
21:09
phone calls in the middle of the night. I would
21:12
often come out to my car with nasty little notes
21:15
like, kill all queers. And it occurred to me
21:18
one day to go to our, you know, the Cal State
21:22
Police Department and show them the letter and
21:24
report it as a hate crime. And because it occurred
21:27
to me, they should be keeping statistics. And
21:29
I remember the young man telling me, well, there's
21:32
nothing we can do about it. I said, I know. I
21:34
don't know who did this, but I want you to keep
21:38
track. And I'm going to start encouraging my
21:39
friends to let you guys know. I don't know if
21:42
they kept track of it as a hate crime, but I
21:44
remember having this duh moment to myself. Why
21:48
hadn't I been reporting these things? The answer,
21:51
because I didn't particularly assume anybody
21:53
would do anything about it. And Gloria, in the
21:56
70s, I read so much about activism you were doing
21:59
because you were the head of the Bakersfield
22:01
chapter of the Now Organization for Women that
22:04
we talked about. You started a hotline for anti
22:09
-rape. We did. I was one of them. I was on it,
22:13
on the board and one of the volunteers. And I
22:15
saw you're working with the Red Cross, the United
22:17
Ray. You're educating people about sexuality.
22:20
You're fighting for the ERA, for pro -choice.
22:23
All these things and more that I saw that you
22:26
were mentioned. You started the Gay Hotline,
22:28
too. That's right. Yep. Yeah, because I volunteered
22:32
for that, and we met in, I don't know, all over
22:35
the place. But yeah, I got that funded, and so
22:39
kids could call in. Because I worked at the hospital,
22:43
a respiratory therapist at KMC, and a kid came
22:47
in, and his face was blown off. And, you know,
22:52
this is part of my job. And I remember rushing
22:55
in and getting my bag, my Abu bag, and, you know,
22:58
doing all the things that I do as an RT. And
23:01
I looked down and there was this great big note
23:04
on his chest that said, tell mom and dad I'm
23:07
gay. And I think that's what fired me up. And
23:10
I went, no, no, no, this is stupid. This is stupid,
23:14
killing yourself because you're gay? Yeah, yeah.
23:20
For me, a lot of my activism was, again, I mean,
23:23
in those days, I had great jobs like working
23:27
in department stores. What gave my life that
23:29
sense of meaning was all of this activism. Because
23:32
frankly, I, you know, even in my 20s there, I
23:36
was thinking, I'm not sure what I want to be
23:38
when I grow up. So I really, really enjoyed the
23:41
activism and so on. And then by the end of the
23:43
70s, I'm thinking, I should probably also, God,
23:47
it was probably more like. 1980. Go back to school,
23:51
get a degree, figure out what I want to do with
23:54
my life. And I'm a professor now. So we talked
23:58
about the gay rap group that started in your
24:01
house, Colette, and that it was all of you, along
24:06
with Nancy Bailey, Frances Sarah and others.
24:09
And how did that group that was doing all this
24:13
activism and community, how did that group? get
24:17
the idea for the Bakersfield Women's Music Festival.
24:20
We had been attending this music festival up
24:24
in Yosemite, the Women's Music Festival, and
24:27
this was put on by Robin Tyler. This is the seventh
24:30
annual, and that was in 1986. Yes, it's evident,
24:35
79. Yeah, and so, you know, I remember just thinking,
24:41
we could do this on a smaller scale. We don't
24:44
have to, you know, do this. As big, it was huge.
24:48
This came out of Michigan's Women's Music Festival,
24:51
the California festival. And it was up near Tuolumne.
24:55
Oh, that sounds like a great idea because so
24:57
many of us sang and entertained and had some
25:00
kind of talent, you know. And so that's how I
25:05
remember it. What do you think? Well, I wasn't
25:09
really a part of all the activism. going on to
25:14
start the music. I remember I had all these other
25:17
obligations, plus MCC, and I was on the board
25:20
of that church. I know, that was a big one. She
25:22
was the mother of MCC. From 78 up until 2014,
25:28
I think I was only off the board for about three
25:30
months when I had a little tete -a -tete with
25:33
the pastor. I didn't want to meet in the birdhouse
25:37
with the birds. So what I remember is the Women's
25:42
Music Festival, or Bakersfield Women, started
25:47
this music festival idea in 83, I think, and
25:52
they got a group together to start planning this,
25:57
and it didn't happen at the rap group. So you
26:01
had no experience running a music festival, I
26:03
think. So what was it like trying to get all
26:06
these bands together and groups together to play?
26:09
Well, I did most of that the first time. I don't
26:12
know who did it the second time, but I said,
26:15
this is the stuff I'd like to see, and they would
26:18
vote on it. Yes, no, we'd talk about it type
26:21
of thing, and we decided to have food, and Jill
26:24
and I... I'll do the food, you know, okay. So
26:28
I just kind of let her be in charge of it. Delegate,
26:32
delegate. And then the same way with the... The
26:37
women's things, you know, the booths and stuff
26:40
that we had. I want anybody volunteer to be in
26:44
charge of that. Call them, tell them what the
26:46
date is, what we'd like for them, and would they
26:48
like to join us. And we were splitting all of
26:53
the proceeds, you know, money among all those
26:57
groups. And then the music lineup I did. I called
27:03
people. told them what was going on, and they
27:06
agreed to play or not. But I don't think anybody
27:08
really turned me down unless they couldn't do
27:10
it for scheduling reasons. I mean, everybody
27:12
thought it was a great idea, you know, and especially
27:18
the women's booths. So where was it held? The
27:21
first one was held in the Veterans Hall? Yeah,
27:26
in Oildale, of all places. That was when... Oil
27:32
Dale, you couldn't even be brown, let alone black.
27:36
So we talked about the planning. How did it go?
27:40
What are your memories of the day? Well, I did
27:44
an opening video and having my, I don't know,
27:47
it was a cute little joggy thing I did. And then,
27:50
oh, look at the big school women's football.
27:52
Oh, yeah, let's go. Let's look, Anthony. And
27:55
then when we first went on, I had him. Him and
28:00
another guy and I was all like makeup and everything
28:04
like I'd been beat up, you know. And I goes,
28:07
nothing's keeping me from the Bakersfield Women's
28:10
Music Festival. Not you, not anybody. So it was
28:14
kind of a little skit, you know. And then I,
28:16
of course, emceed. But some women from L .A.
28:20
came up and gave me a whole rash of shit about
28:24
promoting violence on women from that skit. Yeah,
28:32
and they were just, we want our money back. But
28:36
they came up from L .A. to Bakersfield because
28:41
they'd heard about it. That's pretty good. They
28:45
didn't like it, but they came. So, Sylvia, you
28:49
performed in Colette. You both performed at the
28:51
festival with your own songs, right? Not her.
28:55
I did. She did her own songs. Well, except for
28:59
that one I did with my dad. I just remember being
29:02
nervous and frightened at being in front of all
29:06
those people that it all was a blur. I don't
29:11
know. It was liberating because of the whole
29:16
experience. I mean, I'd been to the West Coast
29:19
Women's Music Festival, the one Robin Tyler put
29:24
on, and that was a... That was huge. And it really
29:33
helped because, you know, usually Tracy and I
29:37
performed at the coffee houses at the church.
29:42
And sometimes we'd sing somewhere where there
29:46
was a gathering. And so that was our first, I
29:50
think that was the first time. And we later performed,
29:53
was it for Robin Tyler? not Robin Tyler, Robin
29:56
Flower, was one of the concerts, and that was
30:00
the next year we opened. We opened for them,
30:03
and we were out at Cal State. And that was terrifying.
30:10
That was terrifying. But it was all good. It
30:14
was all good. And then in 85, when we were better
30:18
prepared for being in front of that many people,
30:24
I remember it. 84. I'm going to 85. I'm going
30:28
to the next year because we were on twice. Yeah.
30:33
I don't even remember this. No, because, well,
30:36
things were different. Every year was different.
30:39
And so I was on my way. I had taken a class,
30:44
and I was going to Mexico for a follow -up on
30:48
a class on kinship. with my anthropology, sociology
30:56
professor. And so I was on my way from that performance
31:00
to travel in 85. So it was exciting. I loved
31:07
it. But I didn't get to immerse myself as much
31:11
because I had to leave and go on this trip. Who
31:15
was in charge? Of the trip? No, of the festival.
31:20
I don't remember. Do you remember any of the
31:24
other talent? Are you talking about year two?
31:27
85. No, I do not. So it didn't say who was in
31:31
charge of the festival, but it said that the
31:35
country group Escape, formerly named Reds, Debbie
31:39
Watson and Linda Lee, magician Paul Nathan and
31:43
Corky Mena. Jackie Patton was involved, a treasurer
31:46
of the Bakersfield Women. Yeah, basically we
31:49
were the beginning of the gay movement. You know,
31:54
and then we, along with Nancy, who was... Oh,
31:57
Nancy Bailey. She was the one that would stir
31:59
up shit and then stand back and let everybody
32:00
do. But she was so smart and so... I remember...
32:06
She ran for mayor. I remember when she ran for...
32:09
And I think she got 25 % of the vote. It was
32:11
amazing. But I remember a story she told me.
32:14
They would go, you know, door to door. I did
32:16
that with her a couple times, but this was a
32:18
time I wasn't there. And she talked about how
32:20
a woman... answered the door, recognized her,
32:23
and said that her husband had been on the TIAC
32:26
jury. And she made him come up and apologize
32:31
to her. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Nancy was a professor
32:36
at Cal State. Yes, yeah. Also. Yeah, and she
32:39
was our advisor at Gay -Straight Alliance. Yes.
32:43
And, yeah, she was a wonderful, wonderful human
32:47
being. Wonderful. But, yeah, that story really...
32:51
It meant a lot to her, and it meant a lot to
32:53
all of us who heard it, that at least one person
32:57
realized that he had made the wrong choice. Yes,
33:01
and kind of a reflection on the 25 % vote, I
33:08
mean, it was disappointing. I was hoping she
33:11
would have done better. I didn't think she'd
33:13
win, but she always said. Anything worth doing
33:18
is worth doing, even if you're not going to be
33:21
doing it to win or... It turns out it was done
33:26
poorly. Badly. Badly. Everything is worth doing,
33:31
even if you do it badly. And we felt like we
33:35
didn't have to be perfectionists because she
33:37
gave us permission to do things that were difficult
33:40
and there was no precedent. There was no history.
33:45
And we would do it anyway. And we'd think, well,
33:48
Bailey says, yeah. And she was such a charming,
33:52
charismatic person. And her bringing these issues
33:55
into such a huge public view, I thought was amazing.
33:59
And again, I thought that, I don't know exactly
34:01
25%, but something in that area, 23, 24, I don't
34:05
know. But that she got that much in Bakersfield,
34:08
California, was wow. One of the remarkable things,
34:15
I think, about the group that we're talking about
34:18
started getting together in the late 70s and
34:21
early 80s. And that lasted, that we became dear,
34:27
dear friends, as well as activists. And we learned
34:31
so much from each other. And we got involved
34:35
in so much together. And there were people from
34:40
all walks of life. We had the brilliance. We
34:43
had the not -so -brilliant, we had the talented,
34:45
and the not -so -talented, and everybody who
34:47
found a place. And the mentally ill. Oh, well,
34:50
we had those, too. Oh, dear. That was heartbreaking.
34:56
We welcomed everybody. But we welcomed everybody,
34:59
and we did the best with some people who were
35:03
not very functional. But there was a place for
35:07
them. The NCC was... Just as important, if not
35:11
more, than the bars at that time because that
35:14
was a place you could go and meet people, you
35:18
know. Yeah. And then it was real. Most people
35:22
didn't go because it was real religious, set
35:25
in pews, had a minister, you know, that whole
35:28
thing that churches that they came out of where
35:31
they had been shamed, you know. Yeah. So then
35:35
they made a shift. I don't know, 1980. 889. Yeah,
35:40
they made this shift. We're going to preach to
35:45
ourselves. We're going to run the church without
35:49
a minister. We don't need one. We have a board
35:51
of directors. We have all the organizational
35:54
tools that we need. And if we don't have them,
35:57
we know how to get them. And so we started on
36:00
our own, and we ran basically by consensus. And
36:06
that sounds like it's impossible, but it was
36:09
not. If somebody really objected to something,
36:13
we said there must be a reason. Let's look at
36:15
the reason and come to a middle of the road.
36:21
But when that shift happened, more people came.
36:26
Even if they came for just every once in a while,
36:29
they still would come. And it was great until
36:35
we absolutely had to fold because the community
36:39
didn't need us anymore. After gay marriage passed
36:43
and the churches began to be even more welcoming,
36:49
there were a couple who were welcoming. Unitarians,
36:53
the Unities, and the Congregational Church over
36:57
on... Where PFLAG is, yeah. Where PFLAG meets
37:00
off of Stockdale Highway, Brundage. More and
37:06
more congregations who were not just basically
37:09
liberal -minded started to open their doors.
37:12
Even the Episcopals, they started first, and
37:17
they split their church over the people who were...
37:21
accepting of gays in their church and those who
37:24
weren't so that those that church split over
37:27
that issue and it wasn't the first one but there
37:30
are many many people who were starting to be
37:32
accepted and eventually celebrated which we were
37:37
we you know we had been a voice calling in the
37:40
wilderness we had our doors open for support
37:43
and then as gay marriage became more accepted
37:47
And people became more accepted about coming
37:49
out, and we weren't as needed. And that became,
37:54
from about 2008 to 2014, that's when we... We
37:58
dwindled down to like five people, and all of
38:01
them were on the board, and all of us supporting
38:03
the church. And we were renting a space, and,
38:07
you know, so, yeah, that was a sad day, but,
38:10
you know, we knew it was coming. it's good that
38:14
you were able to see a lot of acceptance happen,
38:16
and that being the reason. So it's like a bittersweet
38:19
reason. Yes, it was. It was bittersweet. But
38:22
we had a lot of damn fun. Our parties were fun.
38:27
Really fun. Yes, they were. And we're all recovering
38:34
alcoholics from it. Well, except for you. Except
38:39
for me. Glory and I are. charge $5 to get into
38:44
a party and all you could drink and eat. Wow.
38:47
I mean, you know, I could eat. That's when $5
38:51
was a lot more money than it is today. But we
38:56
had really good social connecting parties. And
39:01
we gave money to different organizations who
39:04
were in need. Every month, yeah. Audrey Chavez.
39:09
Yeah, she was in... Ricky's Retreat. Ricky's
39:11
Retreat, yeah. And we also gave money... Another
39:15
big activist in town. Yeah. Yes, we've been friends
39:20
for a very long time. She's been very supportive,
39:23
and we've been very supportive of all of her
39:26
outreach. It's been wonderful. So we talked about
39:31
both years of the festival, and after the festival...
39:34
you were still doing activism. Like, I read about
39:37
the Bad Apple campaign. Oh, yes. Can you tell
39:40
me about that? That's Colette. Yes. There was
39:46
a DJ here in town on Cuz Radio, and Donna Douglas
39:52
called me, and she said, have you heard this
39:54
jerk on Cuz? He's telling gay jokes, bad gay
39:58
jokes, Colette. She goes, I just hate him. So
40:01
she would be calling in, because he had a call
40:03
-in show too, and he was just mean and nasty
40:07
to her, you know. So I don't know where the idea
40:13
came from, except one bad apple can spoil the
40:17
barrel type of thing. And so I got together a
40:23
group of people, and I said, let's get this guy
40:26
off the air. And how we did that was call their
40:30
advertisers. We called every one of their advertisers
40:34
and said, do you really? And we taped his jokes,
40:37
played a little, played them for him. And they
40:42
went, oh, my God, this is horrible. So they would
40:45
cancel their commercials with him. And finally
40:49
they fired him. Except I had one person tell
40:55
me to fuck off. That ham place in town. Honey
41:02
hams. Honey baked hams. That's it. And he says,
41:05
you know what? I'm all for the guy. Go fuck yourself
41:08
and hung up on me. But other than that, everybody
41:11
else. And they weren't just gay jokes. They were
41:14
really nasty jokes about killing gay people and
41:17
stuff, right? Really, really violent stuff, nasty
41:20
stuff. Yes, and he called up. He said, all right,
41:22
you guys, you hop in your pickups and bring your
41:24
guns and come down here to the parking lot because
41:27
the lesbians are coming to kill me. We never
41:29
threatened his life. People lied about that old
41:32
stuff all the time. We never threatened even
41:35
life. We weren't that kind of group. So he just
41:41
said, come on, you guys, come on down, help me
41:43
out. Well, Donna and I snuck down there early,
41:47
parked across the street in another parking lot.
41:50
Not one pickup showed up. Not one person showed
41:56
up to support him. And it was shortly after that,
41:59
after he made that call to come out and kill
42:01
the lesbians, that he was fired. Good job, Paulette.
42:08
I know. Donna and I, we worked that one hard.
42:12
Well, that was another day. Donna Douglas, and
42:15
we lost her in 2015, well, 14, the end of 2014.
42:21
Did you help organize the first Pride at the
42:24
Liberty Bell? I don't think so, but I did speak
42:27
at a lot of them. I think it was Arlene Ackerman.
42:30
I sang at a lot of them. Yeah, it was. Because
42:33
she was trying to get me to go, and I was too
42:36
scared still. I remember the first Liberty Bell.
42:38
There was a big talk to all of us that we should
42:42
go support the first gay pride at the Liberty
42:46
Bell. And I went, I'm a teacher. I don't think
42:49
I've got enough chutzpah yet to go. And I felt
42:53
very bad about it. In my mind, and it was after
42:57
TIAC that this started, after the TIAC debacle.
43:00
That makes sense. Arlene was the minister at
43:03
MCC. Yeah, Reverend Ackerman. Arlene Ackerman,
43:06
yeah. Arlene Ackerman, and she was there until
43:08
85. We were meeting at the Liberty Bell every
43:12
year. We started meeting at the Liberty Bell,
43:15
having speeches, and talking. We had different
43:19
speakers who represented different groups, and
43:22
they would volunteer. And then we got some honks,
43:27
and we got a lot of raspberries, too, people
43:30
going by when they figured out, you know, we
43:32
had a gay friend. You know, we eventually got
43:34
flags. But we had gay rights signs. Gay rights
43:38
signs and so on. But a friend of mine who is
43:41
also a lesbian, and she was so frightened to
43:46
go to the Liberty Bell, but she couldn't keep
43:48
herself away. So she went and put a bag on her
43:51
head and said, Head is in the closet, but my
43:55
feet are gay. So we did that every June, in the
43:59
middle of June, at 104 degrees. And then finally
44:03
somebody said, let's move this. Even though June
44:07
is Pride Month, we moved it into a temperature
44:10
that we could handle. I think we backed it up
44:13
into May or early May or something. We did. And
44:18
then from there, really took... took that movement
44:23
and blew it up. She started having these big,
44:29
at the Bakersfield Museum of Art, and it was
44:33
all nice and fenced, but that's where we were,
44:36
a lot of people had gay pride there, and she
44:40
had gay pride there. And then she moved to Stramler
44:42
Park, even bigger. And that's, I think they're
44:48
still doing it there. No one's doing it now.
44:51
No one's doing it anymore. Whitney left town.
44:53
Oh, yeah. I saw a lot of pride things. We've
44:58
never been given any credit from those groups
45:01
what we started. How about we talk about the
45:06
fight for marriage equality, right? Because you
45:09
did a lot of protests with that also at the Liberty
45:12
Bell. Yes. And in Sacramento and in Fresno. And
45:19
on Stockdale Avenue, because I can remember Stockdale
45:21
and California. I mean, California and Stockdale
45:25
standing there in what we called the right -wing
45:28
line of fire because they were on one side of
45:30
the street screaming. And that reverent... What's
45:34
his name? There was a reverend from a fundamentalist
45:36
church who led it on the one side, and we were
45:40
on the other with our signs. We also had a school
45:42
board member that came across the street and
45:43
hit one of the kids. Yes. Oh, I remember that,
45:46
yeah. I can't think of his name either. Well,
45:48
he said we stole one of their signs, and he came
45:51
across to get it, and he decked that kid. But
45:55
we didn't. No. But he'd been giving us a bad
46:00
time in the school board meetings. Oh, yes. They've
46:03
been trying to get Ten Commandments and Bibles
46:06
in our schools here for a really, really, really
46:09
long time. And we have a man named John Hart
46:11
now who is actively going to all of these school
46:18
board meetings. writing about it and reporting
46:22
to all of us. And he goes around town wearing
46:27
T -shirts, and they're anti -MAGA, anti -Trump,
46:31
anti -ICE. He's an incredible photographer. He
46:34
was a photographer for the Californian for decades.
46:37
He's a very nice man. Yeah, he's a really cool
46:40
guy. And he's been out there at a lot of protests
46:43
and started a lot of them. And speaking of, he's
46:46
been taking pictures of your protests because
46:48
he took some of the photos that I was looking
46:50
at of the different protests and stuff in the
46:53
80s. You could see his name, photo by John Hart,
46:56
yeah. So what are your plans for the future with
47:01
music and with activism? Well, I will stand up
47:06
when I need to against... Rovers. And four. Yeah,
47:12
four. We've got to get that back. There are things
47:15
that we show up downtown for, but there hasn't
47:21
been a lot of gay activism going on here in Bakersfield.
47:27
Too much. But 2016, Trump, we're all over that
47:34
shit. Yeah. Yes, so we haven't been the target
47:39
of ICE like immigrants have been. It's been his
47:44
focus, but we're on the list, definitely. The
47:48
Project 2025 list, our issues, and the Supreme
47:53
Court. It's a bit scary, so it hasn't come up
47:56
yet. I imagine them trying to take marriage away
48:00
from us. I really do. I do too. And yeah. And
48:05
there'll be a lot more of us coming out to fight
48:07
that one and a lot of allies. Yeah. Yeah, things
48:11
have changed since the days we're talking about,
48:13
since the 70s and the 80s. In the 80s, we became
48:18
activists. That was our mantra. And in the 90s,
48:24
we said we're taking power, which means we're
48:27
going to come out. We're going to not just be
48:30
activists. we're going to take positions of authority
48:36
and make changes that way. It's a whole different
48:39
world because more people coming out means more
48:43
people are free. And as far as music, I'm not
48:48
singing the same way I did in the 80s or 90s,
48:52
and I do sing with the Threshold Choir meets
48:57
at Mercy. We sing songs of compassion and comfort,
49:01
and we aren't exactly a choir, but even though
49:07
that's our name, Threshold Choir, but we help.
49:11
We sing at Hoffman Hospice and in the hospitals,
49:15
and several groups have gone to different people's
49:18
houses and groups of three and four this last
49:24
week. There have been several things. requests
49:28
and go and then we meet every week and every
49:31
two weeks and we practice I have severe arthritis
49:36
in both my arms and I had to I had to give it
49:40
up and and with giving that up I didn't sing
49:44
as much and so I lost my voice do you have any
49:48
advice to people that want to get involved in
49:50
activism well my advice is do it if you feel
49:56
it do it it's worth doing Even badly. Even if
50:00
you do it badly, just like Nancy Bailey said
50:02
all those years ago. And we can do it much more
50:05
efficiently and much more polished than we did
50:09
back in those days because we've learned a lot.
50:12
We have a lot of support, support systems that
50:19
help us be heard and be seen. And it's worth
50:23
doing if you're doing it in your living room.
50:28
Because what's at stake is everything that this
50:32
country has stood for for 250 years and all of
50:37
the things that we have had time to progress
50:41
on issues. You know, we didn't start out having
50:44
everybody vote. Women couldn't vote. Black America
50:49
couldn't vote. And now we can vote. But why restrict
50:54
voting? That's a problem. When you're restricting
50:57
legitimate people from voting, that's a problem.
51:00
And the founding fathers of this Constitution
51:05
wanted freedom for all. And I think we're still
51:11
learning what that means. And we're still evolving
51:17
into our potential. And other people, other countries
51:21
in the world have learned from us. They're doing
51:23
a better job in some of the Scandinavian countries
51:26
than we're doing where people aren't experiencing
51:32
as much violence for being different and they
51:38
aren't poor on the street and the mental health
51:42
issues are not running rampant and causing people
51:45
to... run around with guns, and they've done
51:49
things with gun issues. And so, you know, there's
51:53
a lot of work to do. And so my advice is if it's
51:59
in your heart and in your mind to do it, find
52:02
a way. You don't have to be like everybody else.
52:05
Just find a way and do it. Yeah, I would say
52:11
just find that issue that pisses you off, that
52:14
you know that isn't right. that knows it needs
52:17
to be changed. Find a group that's doing that.
52:21
And join them, because the more the merrier.
52:26
You know, many hands make light work type of
52:29
thing. Join them, learn from them, stick with
52:32
them, go, you know. And if you don't want to
52:37
join a group, you can just show up at the protest
52:40
on your own with your little signs. You know,
52:43
it doesn't have to be huge. Most of the time,
52:48
these protests just need bodies. You don't even
52:51
have to march. I don't march anymore. I sit in
52:56
my little chair with my little sign, but I'm
52:59
there. And that's the important thing, to show
53:03
up. Every small act is an act of bravery. All
53:08
the things that caused me issues was being afraid.
53:12
too afraid to do things. And the less afraid
53:16
I was, the more brave I became to speak the truth
53:23
and stand up for my values. And even though it
53:27
cost me, I think in my career, it was still worth
53:31
doing. It was still worth doing. And that's what
53:37
you, sometimes you have to think. and make a
53:39
decision about how you want to live your life
53:42
and what values you want to have and support
53:47
because you have to live them, not just talk
53:49
about them. I see so many people who say, oh,
53:53
I believe in this and I believe in that, and
53:55
then they're doing just the opposite in their
53:58
daily lives. You've got to integrate what you
54:02
believe and who you are with your values. That's
54:05
so important because otherwise... You're not
54:08
real. We got 80 feet of water line Nicely making
54:15
way In a noisy bar And how long I tried to call
54:20
you But on the midnight watch I realized What
54:25
twice you ran away Think about how many times
54:32
I have called And you know it will. So we cheated
54:44
and we lied and we tested. And we never failed
54:50
to fail. It was the easiest thing to do. You
54:55
will survive being invested. Somebody fine will
55:01
come along. Oh