Latest / The Commercial Builders’ Network (TCBN) / Dr. Irish Horsey on Women in Construction, Workforce Innovation, and the Future of the Industry
Transcript
- speaker-0: Many companies need to stop treating technology as an expense and start treating it as a strategy. If companies want to be around in the next 20 years, then they need to invest in people operations as much as they invest in field operations. The firm that wins in the future is the firm that creates a culture where people want to work. and where they are supported by the tools that they need to build and to do their jobs effectively. And those tools include technology. Companies are also challenged right now with the mass exodus, as I mentioned before, that's going to happen within the next 10 years where we're going to lose over 50 % of the construction workforce. leaders are struggling with how to transfer 40 years of field experience into a digital format where an early career professional, a 22 year old can digest and use it effectively to manage. speaker-1: is the Commercial Builders Network, where trust is restored, power is reclaimed, legacy is built. Let's get to work. Beautiful people and welcome to another episode of the Commercial Builders Network. My name is Sneesha Reed and I am your host and today we have the beautiful, magnificent, she is all things construction and she wrote a book recently that has been released. I love her presence and her essence. speaker-0: in the seat. Hello, speaker-1: And we have Dr. Iris Horsey. How are you today? speaker-0: Thank you so much for having me and I am doing well today. Thank you for I'm just super excited to be here speaker-1: Awesome. Awesome. So can you tell the people who you are and what you're known for? speaker-0: I am Dr. Irish Horsey, and I am currently the Director of Industry Advancement at Procore, and now bestselling author of the book, You Can Be Here, A Woman's Guide to Construction Careers. And as far as what I'm known for, I think the best way I could describe it is to summarize it in what I believe is my life purpose, which is to create a construction workforce that reflects the world that we live in. And so I am known for being a professor, being a construction manager, and being an advocate for ⁓ pursuing careers in construction. speaker-1: Awesome, awesome. So, Kim, before we dive into all your many accolades and your book, let's speak to Little Irish. And coming from Atlanta, what exposed you to the industry and how did growing up make you feel that you are adequate for this industry? speaker-0: I grew up very interested in building things and drawing buildings. I, ⁓ my grandfather was a carpenter, but ⁓ I didn't really recognize that as a little girl. I just know that he wore overalls, but I didn't know what he did. So the exposure to the industry was definitely not through that relationship, but it was a natural draw for me. I mean, I didn't have a me when I was little. So I didn't know that construction was an option. I didn't know what it was. When I was a little girl, we saw Barbie dolls ⁓ and images of teachers and nurses, which are all great and wonderful careers. But I wasn't really interested in that. I was interested in building things and drawing things and My favorite toys were Legos and making models out of clay dough. you know, I often tell the story about ⁓ Barbie. You know, my parents would get me Barbie dolls, but I was more fascinated with the accessories, like the Barbie dream house and Barbie's kitchen, because I wanted to put those toys together. I was more fascinated with putting things together than I was actually playing with the dolls. And I have always been passionate about buildings. ⁓ I would go downtown with my grandmother and just be fascinated with the skyline of Atlanta. And even growing up in my early teens, like at 13 years old, that's when I realized that I wanted to pursue a career in construction. We went on a trip to Washington, DC and I flew over the Pentagon and seeing an image of a building that was in a geometrical shape blew me away. I'm like, who came up with that idea? Like, how did they build that? How could we fathom turning a physical structure ⁓ into the resemblance of a geometrical shape? And I was hooked ever since then. And to this day, Washington DC is my favorite city. mainly because of the historic monuments and the beauty of those classical buildings and architecture. speaker-1: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I'm from PG County right outside of DC. Yeah. It's so funny. It was a year, I think I came out of college where I just like went on a field trip to the different Smithsonian's and things because you know, when you're from somewhere, you don't actually see the value of the architecture and things. So I was like, let me experience the city as a tourist and see what other people see. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, buildings are beautiful. speaker-1: So you've been in the industry 25 plus years. Many aspects of the industry from operations to workforce development. ⁓ Policy, policy. That's pretty dope. When did you realize that this industry needed to be transformed? There needs to be a transformation image wise of the industry. speaker-0: awesome. I think earlier in my career, I mean, when you're going through something, you don't really see it. But then as time progresses and you start to experience things and you start to really reflect on where you are, I think the most ⁓ pivotal moment for me was when I graduated with my PhD in building construction. ⁓ But before that, I started to notice little things. Of course, being the only person in the room or on the job site that looked like me ⁓ as I transitioned from being in the industry to academia, recognizing that the young women in my construction programs would ask, like, what's it like on the job site and how do you navigate being a woman in the industry? And then as I ⁓ progressed in my graduate studies through my doctoral program, There were other women in the program, but ⁓ again, there were no women of color. ⁓ There were, well, no African American women, I should say, let me clarify. And I think in my class, there were also no African American men as well. And so when I graduated, I will never forget this moment. I was at our commencement ⁓ exercises. And I looked on the row where my program was sitting. First of all, a PhD in building construction is a very highly specialized degree. However, I was the only one in my row. And then I looked around at other ⁓ programs and where other people were sitting. And I recognized that ⁓ still not a lot of people who looked like me. When I crossed the stage at my commencement exercises, ⁓ the dean who hooded me whispered something in my ear and he said, remember this moment. ⁓ And at the time I just, I'm getting chills thinking about it. Because at the time I didn't know what that meant. But now looking back, I do, because that moment was a call for me to. help the next. And I think it was then that I really realized that this industry, though wonderful and magnificent, it has not been exposed to everyone. You asked just a few minutes ago about how I got into construction, and it was just natural passion. However, there are plenty of people who get into construction that... didn't know what construction was, they had no idea it was an opportunity, ⁓ but they are also starting to see representation. They're starting to see people who look like them in the industry and maybe recognize that this is ⁓ a place for them. So for me, it was definitely when I graduated and recognizing, ⁓ wait a minute, you have been the only in a lot of spaces. It's time we changed that. speaker-1: Awesome. So we're not going to breeze past the fact that not only did you receive your PhD in building construction, you made history as the first African-American woman to do that at Georgia Tech. need to give you your flowers for that. Thank you. Thank you. What did that moment mean to you professionally and personally? speaker-0: Yeah appreciate that. So I think most people when they graduate, they are super excited. It's over. They're, you know, putting on their cap and gown. They're dancing and singing and rejoicing. For me, I felt a weight. It was like a burden. I've got to share the story. ⁓ My husband, when my regalia came to the house, he brought the box in and ⁓ I was excited. I'm going to try my cap and gown on. ⁓ I the box, was in my bedroom and I put my robe on, I put on my... burst into tears. mean, tears just overflowing. And they were not tears of joy. They were tears of my grandfather who had worked before me, the little girls who didn't know that this was an opportunity for them. speaker-1: Thank speaker-0: So the weight that I felt was also the calling to do the work that I'm currently doing right now. Granted, I was excited that I graduated, but only by the grace of God was I able to do that. I also recognized in that moment that there was a calling on my life to do something about the industry ⁓ and not just build it, but to focus on the people in it. And so for me, I was excited about earning a PhD in building construction, but I'm even more excited about ⁓ helping the people in the industry and ⁓ being able to help change and transform ⁓ the construction industry. speaker-1: Has there ever been a time when you have considered giving up? And what made you keep going? speaker-0: ⁓ yes or no, just kidding. ⁓ my gosh. I think not just in construction, but in any industry and in life, you're going to face challenges and there are going to be times where you just absolutely want to give up. And over the course of the, ⁓ my goodness, I'm even going to believe I'm going to say this to almost three decades that I've been in this industry. There have been challenges, along the way. And, ⁓ speaker-1: you speaker-0: If you were to kind of break down the milestones and the journey in my career to where I have come today, there have been a lot of tears. And some of those challenges ⁓ have come from not feeling like you fit in or you belong. Having imposter syndrome, you put in the work, you know your stuff, and yet you still feel like Why me? Why am I here? And recognizing, think one of those moments, ⁓ and that's the title of my book, You Can Be Here, one of those moments was actually sitting in a classroom at Georgia Tech. And boy, it was heavy. We were going through some statistics. We were talking about models. It was extremely high tech, the conversation we were having. And mind you, when I went back to pursue my doctoral degree. had forever. So, you know, just catching up with some of the things that I had missed out on and learning some of the new knowledge ⁓ and new practices was a learning curve for me. And I sat in this classroom and I'm looking around at all these smart and intelligent people. And I asked the question, why am I sitting in this room? speaker-1: than out of school for. speaker-0: And then I have anyone who knows me knows that I'm a devout Christian. And I heard the Lord say, because you're smart too. And I started to realize, oh, the question isn't, know, why am I like in this space? The question is I. am and I'm supposed to be and I can be in this space because I'm equipped to do this work. And so that was definitely an eye-opening private conversation that I had with myself in that space. And then I started to realize I needed to own it. ⁓ I had other challenges every level from going from being in the industry from a construction manager to transitioning into academia was also a step. ⁓ There were many nights that I would go home crying ⁓ while I was in grad school because at the time I had a bachelor's degree, I had a master's degree, I had a great job. I was the director of a construction management program at ⁓ a technical college. Like I didn't have to go back to school and get a PhD. So there were many nights that I would be coming home crying. crying because it was a lot. But ⁓ through my faith and through ⁓ just believing in myself and determination and of course the support of my family, ⁓ I was able to get through it. And even though you have these obstacles and challenges in whatever field or in your life, ⁓ just knowing that you can do it ⁓ and having that self motivation. is what can absolutely get you through. speaker-1: Awesome. So I'm a Christian as well. I, there's a sermon I watch at the beginning of each year. It talks about being in the kingdom. And one of the things, my favorite things that he speaks about is this false humility that Christians have of, know, if God makes it okay, if I'm supposed to be here, no, I was made to be here. I'm a long-term. And it's taken that aspect that, you know, I always say, you know who my daddy is? speaker-0: Bye. speaker-1: There it is. Like, so taking that portion of that, no, no, no, no, I belong here. I am more than capable of doing these things. And so you are going through the process and understanding that, you know, it might get hard. Things happen. Life gets hard. It doesn't ever do question your position and stance of who you are. Amen. So, you speak a lot about future-proofing the workforce inside of construction. For somebody that's outside of the industry or maybe even looking to get in, what does that look like? What does that mean? ⁓ speaker-0: For people who are in the industry, these data statistics are very current and very relevant. We need 500,000 construction workers, professionals over the next four years to meet demand. Not to mention the AI boom that's happening right now. With the data center construction, data center construction that's underway, we have ⁓ tech companies investing anywhere from five to $7 trillion in the building of this infrastructure. Somebody's gotta build it. We're already at a deficit. We need everybody from construction managers to the trades. One of the highest ⁓ in demand construction careers right now are ⁓ electricians. We need electricians to help wire these facilities. We need plumbers, we need ⁓ mechanical contractors. and we need construction managers to manage the whole thing. So ⁓ for someone who may not be familiar with the industry, construction is in the process of transforming. It is no longer my grandfather's construction industry. And yes, you may have worked with or understood construction to be hammer and nails. While it is, it is not just hammer and nails. It is a data industry. In construction, we are not just working with our hands to physically build things. We're also using our intellectual infrastructure. We need to understand data. We need to understand how robotics work. The industry is ⁓ definitely transforming to align with the new technological era that we're in. speaker-1: Awesome. So how do you think that the industry needs to rethink the way it trains, recruits, and bring on more people to fill in these gaps? speaker-0: Yeah, I think it kind of alludes to what I was just speaking about before. Some of the biggest myths, I think, ⁓ that are in construction is that it's like a fallback career or a career for someone who didn't go to college. And the reality is, like the modern construction industry, the industry that we are living in right now is a high stakes problem solving, engineering, a massive financial management ⁓ type of industry. And the myth that construction is dirty, dark, and dangerous, I will have to say, yes, construction is hard work. But it is also an industry where we focus on data and we focus on technology that's helping us. you know, to this massive cultural shift that we're having. ⁓ And it has become one of the most sophisticated environments to work in. speaker-1: Awesome. So you have ⁓ crossed between the industry, education, technology, all the things. How should they ⁓ work better together in order for this pursuit to happen? speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. So whatever your education ⁓ medium is, ⁓ you're going to learn something ⁓ about construction, whether it's construction management, whether it's learning an actual trade, wherever you're getting your knowledge, ⁓ it must align with where the industry is going. And I think the connection between industry and academia and other learning environments ⁓ has to work hand in hand. are, this industry, like I said, is transforming. And without these ⁓ connections together, ⁓ we won't succeed. ⁓ And these relationships happen that may be unbeknownst to people ⁓ who aren't in the industry, but organizations like the National Association of Women in Construction or the Associated General Contractors of America or ABC, the Associated Builders and Contractors. These organizations exist ⁓ to help move the construction industry forward. They are organizations where people are either ⁓ owners of construction companies or they are individuals that work in the industry. ⁓ And the list goes on, the National Association of Black Women in Construction. ⁓ Trades Women Build is another organization for women. And ⁓ again, there are just a number of organizations that actually are connected to our academic institutions. And so having these relationships ⁓ are like the key to us moving forward. speaker-1: Awesome. So you are currently the Director of Advanced... Industry Advanced Investments. At Procore, with this position, how are you helping to implement some of these blends of education and technology with Procore as a critical tool in the industry? speaker-0: I love that you asked that question. First of all, Procore is the leading construction management software focused solely on the construction industry. It is a global SaaS company and our vision is to improve the lives of everyone in construction and the mission is to connect everyone in construction on a global platform. And that has never rang true more than in this moment right now. And the work that I get to do, I don't directly I don't work directly with the actual technology itself. Leading the industry advancement team, I get to focus on just that, advancing the industry, serving the construction community. And that construction community includes the entities that you just mentioned. So colleges and universities, my team ensures that the latest in construction technology are at the fingertips of students and early career professionals entering. into the industry so that when they graduate from school, they're ready to hit the ground running with knowing the latest in technology. ⁓ It's also helping construction companies because now they're getting early career professionals, new talent coming in who already are abreast on of the ⁓ new technology that's out there and how to help them build better and build more efficiently through technology. ⁓ We also partner with K-12 organizations through our Future Construction Workforce program. Programs like the ACE Mentor Program or ⁓ Heavy Metal Summer Experience. We are literally ⁓ sitting down with high school kids and elementary school kids and exposing them to construction career pathways. Our team is really focused on advancing the industry through helping it with its biggest challenge, which is the current construction labor crisis. And helping to ensure that construction is the career of choice is how we do that. And we do that through a number of initiatives. ⁓ We host construction education days ⁓ at our offices where we bring kids into. ⁓ learn about construction technology and learn about the industry. And again, it goes back to that partnership piece that I was talking about and making the connection between industry, academia, ⁓ the workforce. And our team also provides educational tools that are free. They're on demand courses, over a hundred courses. through our Procore Academy where anyone, whether you're in the industry or not, or you want to learn about the latest trends in technology and in construction, we have courses around that. We have a recent course on AI in the industry. We have a course on safety. We have a course on construction safety. We have a course on innovation in the industry. We have courses that just span the whole gamut of of construction and what anyone would want to know about. And so this is my team and this is what we do. speaker-1: Awesome. How do you guys make sure that it's inclusive when you guys are looking at bringing these different initiatives on and things of that nature? Because a lot of times, I know you guys are going into the schools and you're collaborating, but are you guys targeting specific communities? Is it kind of like a free for all, whoever is interested kind of deal? How are you guys doing? speaker-0: Absolutely. And 36, 53 % of the construction workforce is anticipated or expected to retire. construction industry is almost 90 % male. So if you do the math on that, and the majority of those males, speaker-1: are. on speaker-0: Oh, white males. And so if you do the math on that, there is an entire demographic that's missing from that space. Women make up almost 50 % of the workforce in general and only roughly 10 to 11 % of the construction workforce. With this mass exodus happening in the next few years, the next 15 years, we need everyone to build. We need people from all backgrounds. We need all hands on deck in order to meet the demand for this industry right now. So one of the things that we do is we partner with an organization called Construct Reach. Construct Reach is an organization that focuses specifically on targeting kids in all areas, and particularly the demographics that may not have been exposed to construction. And we partner with them through hosting these I Built This events. And these events center on exposing kids to construction career pathways, ⁓ careers in the trades, careers in construction technology, the full gamut of construction opportunities. And so that's just one way ⁓ that we connect and that we ⁓ support. speaker-1: It's interesting, this is actually where my heart is right now, like this is my new mission. Because I come across kids all the time who have no direction of what they really want to do. I went to college, I have a master's degree. Kind of starting to touch what I went to school for now. But even still, between the time, it's like I'm trying to find my love and my passion. And I have this connection to hope for children. and for those that are underserved completely. And I came across this young man who was walking at Walmart and I was telling him about the podcast. I'm like, sometimes you're not destined for college. What are some other options that you could think about? He's like, that's funny you say that because I'm in college right now and I feel stuck. I feel like I don't belong here. I'm not doing well. I said, go get you a trade. I said, they can never take that from me. I said, every building that is here has pipes running through it, has running water. try to go too long with the heat being too hot and the it being not cold enough, know? you know, electricity, I told him that is running through every single building. Nobody can ever take it from you and you won't be in debt. He said, I'm about to go look into it. And it's like just that spark of hope is what gets me excited. So I love what you guys are doing. speaker-0: Thank you. And it's young men like that and just those opportunities to expose people to, obviously he hadn't thought about construction being an opportunity for him. And so putting that word out is my passion and it's part of my purpose. speaker-1: Awesome, I love that. This is awesome. So this actually is a perfect time to segue into the purpose that you have right now, which is this amazing book that you have just released. You can be here, the Woman's Guide to Construction Careers. And I know that you said that, you know, especially with the percentage of women who are not industry, but the need for women in the industry. speaker-0: Ha ha ha! speaker-1: Aside from that, what has inspired you to write this book? ⁓ speaker-0: girl in me that didn't have the need to look up to or to ask the questions about. I wrote this book because in the work that I do, ⁓ whether it's ⁓ the work through Procore or just volunteering or even through teaching, recognizing ⁓ all the questions that I would get from the women, ⁓ whether I'm at a conference and Someone's like, ⁓ you're in construction. How did you do that? Or it could be a construction conference and being a woman in the industry. How do I advance? did you make those transitions ⁓ to advance in your career? ⁓ when I was ⁓ a department chair, ⁓ I would get so many young women asking me like how speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: you know, do you navigate this career? And so it dawned on me. ⁓ I started getting a lot of people reaching out, ⁓ to me from LinkedIn and I don't know how to say no. So when people want to interview or they want to stop me and talk, I want to do all these things, but I was like, what is a way that I can just mentor everybody at one time? And maybe I should put it in a book. And so that is how the book came out. It is a tool to help with my mission to help advance the industry. And I created it because recognizing the gap that we have ⁓ and also recognizing the labor crisis that we're in, I knew that this needed to be written and it needed to be written now. speaker-1: Absolutely. So why is it that you think that construction is not, it's clearly in front of us, but why do you think that many people don't realize the opportunity that exists in construction? speaker-0: In my book, talk about, I think this is like in the very beginning in the introduction. And it's a, it talks about the images that we were used to seeing. Even today, and I'm probably going to do this study. If you ask a group of young kids, and I had often when I go to classrooms or I go and talk to kids in schools, I will. hold up different pictures and ask them, ⁓ like, who do you think is the person that works in construction? And it's usually not the women that they pick. And so the representation ⁓ at an early age, early exposure is where we as an industry construction have really dropped the ball. Now we're doing better. What you're starting to see are companies really highlighting the diversity within their companies. They are, you can go on YouTube, you can go on TikTok, you can go on any of the social media outlets or any of the ⁓ construction companies website, especially large construction companies. They are promoting women, they are promoting people of color, they're embracing the diversity that they have within their corporate culture. Because when you do that, when people can see themselves ⁓ in, an industry or in a place, ⁓ it definitely helps create and draw, ⁓ more people to, to that industry. And so, I think part of the challenge we've had was making, ⁓ construction accessible to everyone. Again, this is why I wrote the book. ⁓ you can be here letting women know that you can be here, you can be her, you can be a woman in the industry. One of the things I highlight in the book, ⁓ are. professional women in the industry that have done amazing things from ⁓ project engineer to CEO from owning their own trade ⁓ company being a steel being a CEO of a steel company ⁓ from ⁓ being an attorney who inherited their father's construction business and like killing it. And so just wherever your entry point is you can be in this industry. have ⁓ a young woman who was in college at the time of the book who's now graduated, who's full force working into her construction career and is thriving. ⁓ So wherever you are in life, ⁓ in this in pursuit of your career, whether you're undecided, whether you want to explore a construction career, that brings me to another point that I point out in the book. In my experience, ⁓ I would teach a class and an introduction to construction class and it would be filled with around 115 to 120 students and I would ask a simple question in that class and it never fails. The response would be one of three things I would ask. ⁓ How did you get into ⁓ construction or how did you pick construction as being your major and ⁓ students would and I'd have like. five multiple choice questions for them to respond to. you know, it's been a passion for you. You've always known ⁓ you're just trying it out. You're actually in another major and just kind of want to see where things are. ⁓ You know you want to be in the built environment, but not exactly sure where. So, you know, sometimes students come from architecture, they come from engineering and then decide that they want to pursue a construction career. And then, you know, my parents just made me do it. And so, know, I ask these questions and the results I get, I consolidated into like three categories. You're either an explorer, a naturalist or a legacy. A naturalist is somebody like me, just naturally drawn to the built environment. Even though I said my grandfather was a carpenter, that's not what drew me to building buildings. I've always loved them. I've always liked building with my hands. I was naturally drawn to the built environment. ⁓ An explorer is someone who maybe is changing their career. So they want to explore construction career. Maybe they are a very business savvy person and they want to start a construction business. They want to explore construction. Maybe it's someone who's changing their major, like a college student who wants to explore something else. ⁓ And then there's ⁓ the legacy. which is construction has typically been in a career where the company business is passed down from generation to generation. And oftentimes ⁓ you'll have a woman who actually is a legacy, what was probably also a naturalist, but wasn't exposed to the construction career. Cause as young girls, we weren't given the tools and the hard hats and the things that we were given the dolls. And this could have been somebody who's always like me that was passionate about building, but just didn't know that there was a way to go. But legacies are people who it was in your family. You have a relative or you have a family business ⁓ in construction. And so those three categories of is where I've often seen where people landed and how they've kind of come to ⁓ being in construction. speaker-1: So what are some career paths inside this industry that many people may overlook or don't even think about? speaker-0: Okay. So as I mentioned before, we are definitely ⁓ in this digital transformation period or construction. ⁓ And some of the careers that people don't think about are those tech savvy careers in the industry. When I started out, you could absolutely work in the trades. ⁓ you could be a construction manager, which I didn't even know was a thing when I first started. I initially went to school, my undergrad was at Tuskegee University, and I started out as an architecture major. Remember, I said I like to draw buildings too. And so naturally, architecture seemed like a good fit. It wasn't until I had an internship at an architectural firm that they put me in their construction management department. I didn't know construction management was a thing. So I went back to school. I didn't even recognize that construction management and architecture were under the same umbrella. And so I decided to do a major in construction management and realized that I like more. I was more passionate about the operations and how things worked and how to make things ⁓ better on operationally as opposed to physically building or drawing. And that's how I got into construction management. And so one of the career paths and opportunities in the industry that people don't even think about is being a pre-construction manager. I bring this up because this is the architect of the budget and strategy of a building. And so people who may be watching this like budget strategy, wait a minute, are you talking about like numbers? Yeah, I'm talking about numbers. In construction, you have to know math, have to know numbers, and I don't want to scare people away by saying that because that's not the only thing that we do. But if you are, for example, people may not know about a project accountant position. This is the person who actually manages the accounting on a construction project. So could you be an accountant and work in construction? Absolutely. And some of the positions that you don't hear about are some of those new tech positions that didn't even exist when I started out, like a drone pilot or surveyor. This is somebody who uses aerial technology in real time to inspect ⁓ job sites. ⁓ Building information modeling or BIM manager. This is somebody who manages the 3D modeling of a project. And so these are career opportunities that didn't even exist in 30 years ago. speaker-1: Awesome. So how important is men's worship to be successful in this industry and how do you find a good mentor? speaker-0: Mentorship is extremely important and it's important particularly for women and those underrepresented because we don't know about the opportunities that are with us and oftentimes that are available, I should say, in the industry. And oftentimes when we're with or when we belong to a construction organization or work for a construction company, we don't know how to navigate advancing in the career. And so having a mentor, someone who could help be that guide, be that coach to help you ⁓ is key, is essential. And not only do you need a mentor, but you need what we call a sponsor. A mentor is gonna advise you, they're gonna help you ⁓ be aware of the opportunities that you could pursue and persist in the industry, but a sponsor is gonna help you get to that next level. they're going to say, hey, you need to be on this project. They're going to physically walk you through how to get to that next level within the organization that you're in. speaker-1: Awesome. So you've not only, it's been a mentor, but you've actually structured mentorship programs and opportunities initiatives. What does it take to actually build a program like that and have it be able to scale as well? speaker-0: One example could be when I was working with the National Association of Women in Construction ⁓ and partnering with ⁓ the women in construction program that I started at Kennesaw State University. We had a group of young ladies who wanted to start, who I reached out to and said, hey, let's start a women in construction organization. And they agreed. ⁓ I was also a member of the National Association of Women in Construction and recognizing that they had a national program, I thought, hey, why don't we connect the future generation, the students that are in college right now pursuing construction careers with professional women who are already in the industry to help them navigate that transition from being a student to actually being an early career professional. And once that happened, what we started seeing I mean, the mentees, the mentors, first of all, are amazing. People who mentor are giving of their time and they're giving of their intellect and they're giving of their resources and they are able to help ⁓ the mentees advance and get to that next level. My personal experience, I had a mentee who, interior project management for an interior design. But she wanted to get into construction management, actually physically building construction projects on the commercial side. And so she was already in school in construction management, but didn't know how to make that transition to where she was. She wasn't working on the side where they were actually building things. So they had a construction management department. So I advised her to ⁓ speak to someone in the construction management department internally to transition to a different department in construction management. where she was getting now exposure to being on a job site and understanding how construction actually worked. And I also, through connections, was able to ⁓ advise her on the job opportunity with a company that was looking to hire ⁓ a project engineer, which she was a perfect fit for. And so not only was she getting experience where she was, she was finishing school. and she landed her dream position, which is waiting for her when she graduates in May. Having that mentor-mentee relationship is extremely important. ⁓ It helps you get to that next level. And because you don't have that representation yet in the industry, it's almost vital to your advancement and progressing. speaker-1: Awesome. That is so awesome. The fruit from your labor. That's awesome. So I know that you also, this is a woman of many, many talents, you also advise executives and institutions on their workforce strategies. With this, what is one of the biggest challenges that many of them are commonly having in this? speaker-0: Yeah Right now, the biggest challenge industry is having is labor. Like I mentioned, it's the labor crisis. And we have ⁓ done a better job of recruiting women, but we're also seeing women are leaving the industry as well. And so companies are not only having ⁓ challenges with recruiting and getting people, they're also having challenges. keeping people and retaining them. so companies that are providing the resources that people need in the industry. like the technology to build better, to do their jobs more efficiently. They are definitely companies that are receiving the top talent. They are getting the people in the door and the people are staying because they also are providing opportunities where people feel like they can be here. They can belong within that company. For example, a lot of company have employee resource groups and these employee resource groups are groups for people who ⁓ maybe there's not a lot of representation. So there may be companies that have like women in construction programs or programs for ⁓ all different types of ethnicities or even ⁓ religions for that matter. And companies embrace these organizations ⁓ within the company because they realize that it makes their people feel valued. And it's not a exclusivity thing. I mentioned that ⁓ some companies may have like a women in construction ⁓ ERG or employee resource groups. Everyone is invited. Everyone is open to these organizations. It's not exclusive to that group. And the reason it is important that everyone is invited is because no one person builds in a construction industry. You can't build for a diverse world if all the people in it look the same. Representation is about fairness and it's about innovation. And to innovate, you need everybody. speaker-1: Absolutely. So what is the reason behind the big shift of people wanting to leave the industry? What is that about? speaker-0: So one of the challenges also, and one of the hardest parts of being in construction industry that is often not talked about is mental health. ⁓ And construction is very demanding. And there are also parts of it that are extremely ⁓ difficult to navigate ⁓ if you have never been in the type of environment that you're exposed to in construction. ⁓ dealing with mental health ⁓ is definitely something that the industry is starting to transition to and recognize. ⁓ A lot of people also have maybe feel that they're not safe in construction. And before that was a challenge, before we didn't have the regulations that we have today that help keep you safe, nor the technology that ⁓ is making working in construction much safer. And so ⁓ people ⁓ are starting to leave because ⁓ they may not feel safe mentally. speaker-1: So if construction companies want to stay competitive in the next 10 to 20 years, what are some changes that they need to start making to start thinking about? speaker-0: I think companies need to stop treating technology as an expense and start treating it as a strategy. If companies want to be around in the next 20 years, then they need to invest in people operations as much as they invest in field operations. The firm that wins in the future is the firm that creates a culture where people want to work. and where they are supported by the tools that they need to build and to do their jobs effectively. And those tools include technology. Companies ⁓ are also challenged right now ⁓ with the industry gap that we're facing. The mass exodus, as I mentioned before, that's gonna happen within the next 10 years where we're going to ⁓ lose over 50 % of the construction workforce. And leaders are struggling with how to transfer 40 years of field experience into a digital format where an early career professional, a 22 year old can digest and use it effectively to manage. so companies that are investing in their people and in technology are definitely aware of how technology needs to be treated as a strategy if they want to be able to succeed in the coming years with this mass exodus around the corner. speaker-1: So for someone that's looking at this interview that may have some kind of curiosity and want to learn more about construction, where should they start? speaker-0: They can actually start with my book. And I say that because in it, I outline construction career opportunities and the salaries. I outline the resources that you need to pursue construction careers. I list the, ⁓ ⁓ organizations that you would want to connect or be affiliated with. I also list out the educational resources, whether it's training programs, four-year colleges or institutions, or two-year colleges or institutions, and ⁓ even a career mapping tool to help you outline kind of how to navigate your construction career. So definitely starting with the book is one resource. In addition to that, ⁓ you can... ⁓ Look at opportunities with some of the organizations that I mentioned, for example, the agency, which is the associated general contractors of America. It's a great start because it has over 70,000 members. It's the largest professional construction organization in the country and the resources that they have available. Let you know about career opportunities as well as training opportunities. And so it's a good place to get started. So researching or. Looking into construction organizations to help you understand a little bit more about the industry and the resources that are available is another way to start. And then looking into apprenticeship programs, if you're someone who knows that you want to go into construction trade but don't know how to do it, Google an apprenticeship program. Google electrical apprenticeship and a million things will come up and you'll learn about how to do that. ⁓ Definitely looking into apprenticeship and trade ⁓ associations is another way to get started as well. speaker-1: Awesome. In 20 years, someone is going to speak of Dr. Irish Horsey. What do you want them to think about first when they think about you? speaker-0: that she was here to help and that ⁓ the industry, I'm in construction now because of her. speaker-1: Where should we get this wonderful book? speaker-0: So the book is available on all major retailers at all major retailers. So Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, you can also purchase it as an ebook on. ⁓ Kindle, sorry, that just escaped me. But yeah, and so ⁓ it's available at all major retailers. speaker-1: Do you speaker-0: I do. We did our official book launch last week at Georgia Tech, ⁓ but I will be hosting additional book launches. ⁓ We'll be doing a road show. I'll be visiting colleges and universities as well as organizations. So to learn more about where I'll be, you can visit my website at irishhorsie.com and you can go under the events tab and it will provide a list of all my upcoming speaking engagements, book signings. ⁓ as well as ⁓ roadshow opportunities at colleges and universities. speaker-1: Awesome. This has been wonderful, Dr. Rissy. I appreciate your time. speaker-0: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. It's truly been a pleasure.