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Stop Overthinking: Finding Freedom on the Floor (S05 Ep78) · ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong

0:00
But then we get into our heads and we think, oh, what will my
0:04
partner think about this? But wait, what is everybody
0:08
around the room going to think about it?
0:11
Am I going to get in trouble? There is that idea that you get
0:14
into a bubble with your partner and nothing else matters in the
0:17
sense of who is watching. I don't care.
0:20
What are people thinking? I also don't care.
0:22
I put myself into that professional box.
0:25
These are the list of things that I'm allowed to do.
0:26
These are the list of things that I'm not allowed to do.
0:28
So we are dancing and the person crying my arms very quickly.
0:32
Imagine right now how many meanings your mind must be
0:35
creating around the fact that I share that somebody's crying in
0:39
my arms while dancing. I think this is their main
0:41
secrets. It's our ability to observe the
0:44
body, observe the situation, and not attach a meaning to it.
0:49
There were situations where I was in a festival when there was
0:51
a lot of people around and I'm like, oh, what are they going to
0:54
think about it? They're going to think that I'm
0:56
trying to date this person and then tomorrow I'm going to get
1:00
cancelled on social media. The thing is, we attach meaning
1:04
to what is happening, and that's where the whole confusion starts
1:07
happening. In my opinion, we are moved in
1:10
this life by two powerful forces, which is we do
1:14
everything in our power to avoid looking bad and to try to look
1:17
good. How can you be yourself on the
1:22
dance floor without worrying about who is watching?
1:27
Can you stay in the bubble with your partner while being
1:30
respectful to others in the room?
1:33
And how do you stop overthinking and just enjoy a deep
1:37
connection? Well, let's find out.
1:41
Hello Hello everyone, and welcome back to Zuck Nerds.
1:45
In this episode, Ghee and I talk about finding freedom while
1:50
respecting boundaries. We discuss Ghee's way of staying
1:55
in the moment and my own struggles with feeling judged
1:59
when a dance feels extra special.
2:02
Let's explore how to listen to your partner's body and enjoy
2:07
the connection without the stress.
2:10
So let's go. Hello, hello everyone, my name
2:22
is Alison Sanji and let's welcome back our beautiful Co
2:25
host GI brother. Hello, GI.
2:28
Hello, Alison. Hello, everybody.
2:30
Welcome back to Suki Nurds. In this episode, we're going to
2:34
be talking about something that is very, very common in our
2:39
community. And recently we've had some
2:42
discussions with students and dancers, friends of the
2:46
community about it. And it's the fact that sometimes
2:52
we want to express a certain way when we're dancing.
2:56
The music, the environment, the partner inspires us in a such
3:02
special way. It could be energy, it could be
3:06
flow, it could be emotions. But then we get into our heads
3:12
and we think, oh, what will my partner think about this?
3:18
Is this OK? Is this going to be an issue?
3:22
But wait, what Is everybody around the room that can watch
3:27
us or can see us dancing? What are they going to think
3:31
about it? Is it OK?
3:33
Is it allowed? Am I going to get in trouble?
3:37
And the list goes on. So how can we express ourselves
3:42
freely in a way that is OK with our partners and with everybody
3:47
around in a way that is respectful, in a way that we
3:52
feel confident with what we're doing and that there is an
3:57
exchange. So how do we do that?
4:02
How do we do that? Because I know for a fact, and
4:05
we've discussed this in the past, you have the skill of a
4:10
Buddha to be able to separate you and your partner from the
4:13
rest of the room, and both of you sometimes can go into this
4:17
other universe. How does that work?
4:21
Break it down for us here, humans who don't have the
4:25
superpower. Oh, I think everybody has that
4:28
capacity, but it's not yet fully connected with that capacity yet
4:34
because it's two things. There is that idea that you get
4:38
into a bubble with your partner and nothing else matters in the
4:42
sense of who is watching. I don't care.
4:46
What are people thinking? I also don't care.
4:49
The thing is, nothing is set in stone.
4:52
It's not that we don't care at all that we do care.
4:55
It's important to consider the circumstances as well of where
5:00
you are now. I'll give just an example.
5:03
If we are in a small scene in a small community and there is
5:06
only 15 people on the dance floor, then you get in the
5:11
bubble and then your one hour dance where we are one hour
5:15
dance with one person in a small community will have an impact,
5:20
right? Because simply there is less
5:22
people to dance with. So in these circumstances,
5:26
depending on the circumstance, you are being more or less
5:30
mindful of those who are around you and especially your partner
5:35
as well. The main thing I think that
5:38
helps me and that has been helping me is the ability to not
5:44
attach meaning to certain things that are going on.
5:48
For example, this has happened to me a couple times.
5:53
I'm dancing with somebody and I noticed there is a change in the
5:57
breathing and then I noticed that the person starts crying.
6:01
So we are dancing and the person's crying in my arms very
6:05
quickly. Just by saying this, imagine
6:09
right now or think about how many meanings your mind must be
6:13
creating around the fact that I shared that somebody's crying in
6:17
my arms while dancing. We're still doing the basic.
6:20
We couldn't stop dancing. We're still moving to the rhythm
6:25
or then we just sway side to side.
6:28
So just think about how many minutes you must have been
6:31
giving to this story in my head or in my body.
6:37
What's going on is the following.
6:39
Oh, the person is crying and that's it.
6:43
I don't think, oh, they cry because they're sad.
6:46
They cry because I don't know what happens.
6:49
I just ask, is everything OK? And the person says yes, yes,
6:55
yes, and stops right there. And I think this is the main
7:01
skill. Let's put it this way.
7:04
So if I'm dancing with somebody and the person tenses up the
7:07
body, my mind goes, oh, the body stands.
7:12
It doesn't go like rejected me, doesn't go like, oh, I did
7:17
something bad. It doesn't go to a judgement.
7:22
It observes what just happened and morphs into that, so adapts
7:27
into it so we can maintain ease on the body.
7:31
So everything that I'm seeking is ease on the body.
7:35
And by noticing what my partner, how my partner reacts at every
7:39
single time, I'm just able to adjust to the flows that are
7:44
going on there without attaching meaning to it.
7:48
Of course, not always I succeed. Of course, I'm not in that state
7:54
of enlightenment. But most of the time I am able
7:58
to stay with the observation, staying with what happens.
8:03
And on the other way around too, If we started to dance with more
8:08
space and then over time we get closer, closer, closer, closer.
8:11
I really go to the physical body sensation and the observation of
8:16
the points of contact and how nice it feels.
8:19
It doesn't necessarily immediately create meaning
8:22
around or we are into each other or this means something else.
8:26
Is this something else? What is happening?
8:29
I stay with the experience because now, after all these
8:34
years, I think I understand better that we are inside a
8:38
container that allows us to get to a place in terms of
8:43
connection, in terms of closeness that we would not get
8:46
otherwise. And in that container, there's
8:49
permission to get closer and there's permission to listen to
8:53
the body in ways that we don't normally do.
8:56
And we are helped by the music, we are helped by the
8:59
environment. We are helped a lot by the
9:02
technique as well. The tools of the technique
9:05
allows us to connect with more safety and with more confidence
9:09
and with more awareness. The last thing I want to share
9:13
and understanding that this activity that we do partner
9:16
dancing, especially Brazilian Zook for all other dances that
9:21
we have, they embrace this activity.
9:25
Serves a big. Purpose to nurture our bodies.
9:29
There is something that is very nurturing about it because we
9:32
are human beings that need physical touch.
9:34
They need physical connection in other two exists in the first
9:38
place and partner Desi provides us with an environment that
9:42
allows us to have exactly that, to have that tenderness, to have
9:47
their nurturing. I remember, and I think I shared
9:50
these times before that, when I was still working as a lawyer,
9:55
my social dancing of the week was 45 minutes on a Friday with
10:00
one single friend. I would schedule with her.
10:03
We'll meet at the door, we'll dance the whole night, and then
10:06
I'll go back home for like 45 minutes.
10:08
Sometimes on the clock, sometimes we would on the clock.
10:12
Boom, 45 minutes, we would dance and then we will be going back
10:17
home afterwards. Because I spent the whole week
10:21
sitting on a desk looking at a computer, looking at numbers,
10:24
looking at cases, think about cases, shaking a lot of hands,
10:28
shaking a lot of hands with foreign hands, you know, like to
10:32
keep you away from the other person.
10:35
The nurturing that I had was getting home, hugging my mom,
10:39
hugging my brothers. But I needed more.
10:42
I needed this physical connection aligned with
10:47
movements because movements was also another thing.
10:50
So I need movement, I need creativity, I need a place to
10:54
express, and I need physical nurturing.
10:57
And I also wanted it to be safe and reliable and fun as well
11:03
because I wanted to go crazy. I wanted to like just do
11:06
everything I knew how to do was almost like a way to put stuff
11:10
out, you know, of the week. And that was it for me.
11:14
That was the thing that I needed and I was happy.
11:16
And I'll go back home on a Friday and watch Global Airport.
11:20
For those who are from Brazil, you know what Global Airport is,
11:24
which was like a thing we had in Brazil on Fridays.
11:27
I think we still do. There was a mini journalistic
11:30
documentary thing every week about a specific topic.
11:35
Remember I did some global employee.
11:37
Yeah, it's like the 60 minutes that there is in North America
11:41
or in Australia. It's that 60 minutes focus
11:45
documentary about something sometimes light and gentle,
11:49
sometimes pretty heavy. Yes.
11:52
So I would leave the firm at 6:30 or something, meet my
11:56
friends, 640 because the studio was really close to where I used
12:00
to work. And then guys, I was home by
12:03
8:30. By 9, I was home, they've been
12:05
happy. I would order a pizza, watch
12:07
globe and pot, and then that was it.
12:09
So that was what this was for me for some time.
12:13
I just needed that nurturing. So in the end, I think this is
12:17
their main secrets. And the hardest one is your
12:21
ability to observe the body, observe the situation and not
12:28
attach a meaning to it. It's very hard, especially if
12:31
you're not used to it. Especially if you're not used.
12:34
There's at the level of connection as at the level of
12:36
tenderness, as at the level of closeness.
12:38
That is not with your intimate partner.
12:41
There's not with your family, there's not with your friends.
12:43
You go out, there's a stranger, and you connect to that
12:47
stranger. Dance to the rhythm a little bit
12:49
and Oh my God, I love this stranger so much.
12:52
I want to hug this person tighter.
12:54
But then you're like, oops. But what's the meaning that the
12:57
stranger's going to give to my hug?
12:59
It is a very fair wondering, super fair wondering.
13:02
So learning the skill of staying the observation, I think is the
13:11
if I were to say anything about how to deal with this, I think
13:14
that'll be the first one right now after this podcast.
13:18
When you go through your dance life, observe, watch people
13:22
dancing and see there is a hand on the neck of somebody.
13:26
Are you thinking, Oh, well, they're into each other, She
13:29
likes him very much. Oh, they're definitely lovers.
13:32
Or are you able to just see a head on the neck and say it's a
13:36
head on the neck? What about you?
13:38
What is? So how is that for you?
13:40
That's very tough because before we started recording, I was
13:45
sharing with Guy that I've felt exactly like that for forever.
13:51
I mean, like, my brain just overthinks about everything and
13:54
anything in my life. So I've had dances that I felt a
13:59
certain way, that I wanted to connect a certain way.
14:02
But right away in my brain, I was already thinking, oh, but
14:07
no, this is not allowed. Or this is not something that I
14:10
should do as a dance teacher. This is not a place where I can
14:15
express myself fully because I'm here surrounded by students.
14:19
There were situations where I was in a festival when there was
14:22
a lot of people around and I'm like, oh, what are they going to
14:25
think about it? They're going to think that I'm
14:28
trying to date this person and then tomorrow I'm going to get
14:33
cancelled on social media. Like all of those things that as
14:37
an artist, I think about because I'm just because, just because
14:41
it's me, I'm not going to blame anybody else.
14:44
But as a student, as a dancer, we hear that from a lot of
14:48
people who are concerned about the other person, how they feel
14:54
it, but most importantly, they're concerned about how
15:00
other people think about them, right?
15:03
And I think that's very valid. I think that's a positive thing
15:07
for us to be concerned and to be worried about because we want to
15:11
have clear boundaries. We want to have respectful
15:14
dances. We want to have a safe
15:16
community. But how to express yourself, how
15:21
to get to that place where both of you feel safe enough to
15:26
express? That's the first big question.
15:30
And 2nd, which is the -1 I would say is for the people who are
15:37
very comfortable with it. I would dare to say too
15:42
comfortable with it, which then becomes a problem in the
15:45
community. People who sometimes says, hey,
15:49
you know, I'm here to dance and I'm just here to explore.
15:52
So why do I have to be restricted by those things that
15:56
you guys talk about safety in the community and this and that
15:59
and this and that. We have problems with people
16:02
getting banned from communities, classes, events because they're
16:07
too comfortable with it, you know?
16:10
So how do we go about understanding the line and
16:15
understanding what is OK? When is it OK?
16:21
You've talked about body tension, you've talked about
16:26
contact positions. So for everybody listening here,
16:30
Gee, how would you frame this in maybe a spectrum of like from
16:37
here to here, this is fine, from here onwards you better check.
16:43
And from here to there it's definitely a no game unless both
16:50
of you are in a very special scenario.
16:53
You are asking in the sense of no verbal right.
16:55
Not necessarily. I think let's open up like how
17:00
do we go from starting maybe with known verbal and then
17:04
moving to verbal? All of the things, however you
17:08
want to put this because I can think about different scenarios
17:11
where a simple verbal question and answer can make things very
17:16
clear and safe. But like we've discussed before
17:20
in this podcast, there are moments where people they don't
17:24
feel very safe to express themselves as they feel.
17:28
They might be feeling a certain way but not say it because they
17:32
are dancing with a person or in a place where they feel the
17:36
pressure to continue instead of allowing themselves to stop.
17:41
So there's that too. There's that too.
17:44
Depending on the environment that they are, depending on the
17:46
context, they would stop otherwise.
17:48
But they don't. I have seen, for example, I have
17:51
known about situations in which the follower is dancing with the
17:54
leader. Completely not comfortable with
17:56
it, is not going well. But then a videographer shows
17:59
up, boom. Put the video, put the camera
18:01
on, put the lights on, and the person stays because it doesn't
18:05
want you. You know, now that everybody's
18:08
watching and there's a light on you and there's a camera on you,
18:11
you don't want to make a scene. Let's put it like that.
18:15
And so the circumstances truly make an impact on all of this.
18:19
Well, this is hard, man. This is a very hard question.
18:23
I will start with the ideal scenario.
18:25
What is the beautiful world that we all would like to live in?
18:29
In this ideal scenario, I think we would.
18:32
In partner dance situations, it's very connected with the
18:35
cues that the body involuntarily sense when it's uncomfortable or
18:41
when it's comfortable. When I mentioned that example of
18:44
the tension, felt the tension and not attaching a meaning to
18:48
the tension. What I mean or what I'm doing is
18:51
I'm listening to the body. There was a tension that was
18:53
created. Therefore I respond to the
18:56
tension. If the tension was initiated
19:01
should create distance, I will stay in the distance without
19:06
trying to get closer again. That's the thing.
19:10
And while you stay in the distance, I am not in my head
19:14
saying God damn it, we are far now, Oh no, I've been rejected
19:20
or what just happened. We should be close.
19:23
This is not the way he goes. Like we should get closer,
19:26
therefore try again or oh, they don't know what they're doing.
19:30
Let me show them how this is supposed to be done.
19:34
And then you force something. So for me, in a beautiful ideal
19:38
scenario, we are first listening to the cues of the body and just
19:43
responding to them without creating stories in our heads
19:46
why the body is reacting the way that it is.
19:49
Because sometimes on the other hands, when the body gets
19:51
comfortable and like you said, now Addison, when it gets too
19:55
comfortable, some people can go like, oh, OK, so there is an
19:59
opening here. Let me try to do something or
20:01
let me do something because they are for sure interested in me.
20:05
So the story feeds the desire that feeds the intention.
20:10
So all of those things start happening.
20:13
Not only that they can think that the person is interested in
20:16
them, but they can have this idea in their head that this is
20:19
OK in this community. Well, this is Brazilian Zook.
20:23
We're supposed to connect deeply and go way beyond the stars.
20:27
And that's kind of like the issue where people sometimes
20:32
express to us and say, well, but you know, this is a connection
20:36
dance. Why should there be any limits?
20:40
Yeah, I think we'll talk about a different thing.
20:43
I think we'll talk about somebody that arrived already
20:46
with this shoot. And then from the get go, you
20:48
start the dances seeking a certain connection.
20:52
Yeah, what I'm talking about a little bit before is you start a
20:55
dance ball with a little bit of a distance normal.
21:00
As the dance progressed, it got closer and closer and closer and
21:03
there was relaxation that was released.
21:05
There was surrender of the body into the connection, into the
21:09
embrace, into the closeness. So you have, you know, cheek to
21:13
cheek, head on the chest, these things.
21:15
There are more. When you signal that there is
21:19
ease, there is relaxation. You close your eyes, you know,
21:22
all these things. So I'm saying when we get there,
21:26
by what means we attach to it. You know, The thing is when
21:31
somebody arrives before the dance with a should, that we
21:35
must get close because that's what the dance is.
21:38
And therefore they stop listening to the body and they
21:42
skip several steps of the relationship creation that
21:47
exists when we start dancing with someone.
21:50
Yeah, my teacher and I think your teacher chew out some,
21:53
probably said it one time because this was a very common
21:56
thing that our teachers. Used to say.
21:58
Back in the days that each dance is a full relationship that
22:03
develops over the course of the song or or the songs for dancing
22:07
Shoe, it's almost like when somebody comes to the dance with
22:11
a should they already arrive in the middle of the relationship
22:14
or in the end of the relationship.
22:16
So they don't give time to develop the relationship and see
22:20
where it's going to go. So what I'm mentioning about
22:23
this ideal scenarios that people give attention to a mindful
22:29
presence to the development of the relationship in the ways
22:33
that the body shows comfort or discomfort.
22:37
And The thing is, you might not know if it's actually
22:39
uncomfortable to your partner. What you know is what is
22:42
comfortable or uncomfortable in your body.
22:44
And understanding that when forcing certain things, forcing
22:48
the closeness of forcing the distance, it feels off your body
22:52
is telling you something. The thing is, we attach meaning
22:56
to what is happening. And that's where the whole
22:59
confusion starts happening. In my opinion, when we think
23:03
about this in very basic terms, they're not considering the
23:07
circumstances that Allison said. For example, us as teachers, you
23:11
know, our survival depends on these days.
23:14
Now our survival depends on the ability to teach and be invited
23:18
to places. So we are extra mindful of what
23:22
people are watching, what they are seeing, and what perhaps
23:25
they are seeing, you know. So we are mindful of that for
23:28
sure. So given the circumstances,
23:31
things change. But considering the two people
23:35
dancing there, I would say that would be the first thing.
23:38
The second thing, which I think is as hard as the first thing,
23:42
is understanding your limits, understanding how far you can
23:47
go. And that's why people, it's
23:49
really hard. It's very, very challenging
23:53
because we are moved in this life by two powerful forces,
24:00
which is we do everything in our part to avoid looking badge and
24:05
to try to look good. So sometimes when we ascertain
24:10
our limits, our boundaries, it overrides what will be good for
24:15
our bodies because we are trying to avoid to look bad, look bad
24:19
to that person, look bad to those who are watching.
24:22
So therefore we override it and then we let things happen.
24:26
And that's the thing that is the hardest thing.
24:28
And recently I have been tuning in into my internal, really my
24:35
internal power of understanding how far can I go in these things
24:40
and understanding the difference between what I want to do and
24:44
what I'm willing to do and what I don't want to do or not
24:47
willing to do. And getting better at
24:50
understanding what is it that I don't want to do and what is it
24:53
that I'm willing to do. Because sometimes you don't want
24:57
to do something, but you are willing to.
24:59
So to give yourself a little bit more flexibility, you go a
25:03
little more, let me go here and see how it feels, but then
25:06
realize I don't want this or realize I want this.
25:10
And sometimes you don't want from the start or sometimes you
25:14
want it becomes a no want. So then it becomes after the
25:19
communication with the body, the verbal communication that can be
25:23
simply no thank you, Thank you very much.
25:28
Thank you for the dance. And you walk away, which again,
25:31
like we're saying, is very challenging.
25:33
But then first thing, understanding the processes, the
25:36
internal processes. They are making you stay and
25:39
they are inviting you to go and they want to invite you to go.
25:43
What is overriding this, inviting you to go?
25:46
Sometimes it's like Allison said, there's a shoot in your
25:49
mind. Oh, but this person is so
25:51
advanced. They are so good.
25:53
I should keep dancing. Oh, it's an artist, a pro.
25:56
I should keep dancing. Oh, there's somebody filming us.
25:59
I should keep dancing. Everybody's cheering.
26:02
I should keep dancing. So that overrules your initial
26:05
perception that, oh boy, this is not a situation that I want to
26:09
be in, you know? And then if you are in the
26:12
situation, once you leave that situation, you keep analyzing
26:16
why did I stay instead of beating yourself up, which is,
26:19
again, another thing that is really challenging, instead of
26:21
beating yourself up for not holding the boundaries, is
26:24
understanding why was it hard for me to hold that boundary and
26:28
working on the ways to make it easier for you to hold that
26:32
boundary. So I don't know if I answer
26:34
everything else and there's definitely a lot more to
26:37
consider, but I will start there, Yeah.
26:41
I think it did. I mean, there's so much more to
26:43
talk about, but I was thinking about another scenario here and
26:49
I went really deep in my mind here.
26:51
So let me organize my thoughts. When I am a leader, I'm more
26:57
sensitive to how far I want to go or how far I'm allowing
27:05
myself to go into certain types of connections.
27:10
For example, when I have a follower starting to dance with
27:13
me and I feel like they are seeking for that very specific
27:17
thing, some deep connection, some very close dance or some
27:21
very steamy fire kind of dance. For me, it's kind of a shock and
27:26
I'm almost gone straight into the safety net, the safety zone.
27:32
It's almost like whoa, too much too soon.
27:35
Let me just go and sit in my seat and just behave like a good
27:40
person. It's almost like a little scary.
27:43
But even if it doesn't start like that strong, I am still
27:48
more conservative when I'm a leader.
27:52
But I was going to my head here and I realized that as a
27:56
follower, I'm more open to just go.
28:00
I don't know why. I just feel like as a follower,
28:04
I want to be taken to any and all experiences.
28:11
As long as it doesn't hurt my body, I'm game for it.
28:15
You want to dance clothes? You want to dance fire, you want
28:17
to play around. I'm all game for it.
28:21
So I'm kind of like in this moment, having this realization
28:27
and trying to make sense of why. But the first thing that I can
28:32
think of is that I'm a primary leader and my role in the
28:37
community is as a leader. So that is the role that I guess
28:43
I care for, that I guess I want people to see me in a good light
28:48
for. But then when I'm being a
28:51
follower, that's an extra role in the community or a secondary
28:55
role, which if I'm good or bad, if I do something silly or even
29:02
if I cross a line, it's not my primary role.
29:07
So then I guess I have a little bit more room to play there.
29:13
I'm not sure if that's the case or the case that as a follower,
29:18
I just feel like I'm more open to it.
29:21
I'm looking for experiences that I don't get as a leader.
29:26
As a leader, a lot of the times I'm expected to be in a position
29:30
of providing and bringing something.
29:33
So as a follower, I want to remove all of that.
29:37
And I'm like, no, I'm here to actually experience what you're
29:43
bringing to the table. And once I've understood that,
29:46
I'm going to put myself in there.
29:48
I'm not saying that I'm just going to be this.
29:51
Follower who doesn't? Bring anything, but I first want
29:54
to understand what kind of food and what kind of cuisine we're
29:58
going to have here. And then maybe I'll make some
30:01
requests and some adjustments. Yeah, I don't know.
30:05
I just wanted to put it out there for Yogi and for everybody
30:08
who's listening. I don't have a point to make
30:10
about it. No, that makes a.
30:12
Lot of sense to me because it's as a follower the story changes,
30:16
the constructs changes. As a follower is a stress free
30:20
role. Because it's not what you are
30:23
known for, it's not what people have you as a reference for.
30:28
So inside of the world of permission that we have in
30:32
partner dancing there our permission to get closer to a
30:35
stranger and move to music and have a good time.
30:38
Inside that permission, there is a higher permission that you
30:41
give to your followers self. They say you can enjoy more, you
30:45
can go and do more things because the leader one has a lot
30:48
of responsibilities. The leader one's what
30:51
everybody's watching, but they follow on.
30:53
Everybody's going to laugh together.
30:55
Everybody's going to Oh my God, yeah, this is this is a follower
30:57
and it's going to be more in a playful way and let's go away
31:01
that I think that the leader self has.
31:03
And man, that reason is so much with me.
31:06
I'm noticing when dancing as a follower, a switch goes off in
31:11
the brain or turned or goes on. And my experience of the dance
31:16
is much different. I feel a lot less pressured to,
31:19
I don't know, it's a different way to express.
31:21
I realized when I dance as a follower and I'm dancing with
31:24
the leader that I trust and like I think I get even closer than I
31:28
get as a leader to a follow that I really feel trusting.
31:32
Like it's almost like I have a different tools at my disposal
31:37
and I use them all with less fear than I use when I am a
31:42
leader. So it makes a lot of sense what
31:44
you missed just now I was. And there's one more thing I
31:47
wanted to share about the perspective of the follow.
31:50
In all of these things in my life, I have seen very clearly
31:54
two different kinds of dance relationship development.
31:58
As a follower. I have seen those who developed
32:02
the trust over time. So they started this a little
32:04
bit more with a little bit more distance.
32:07
And you see over time the arms, you know, getting more flexible
32:13
and getting closer and the heads going forward a little bit and
32:16
the eyes closing and the heads turning inwards versus outwards.
32:20
There's a slow build in the process of, OK, you're taking
32:25
care of my body, here it is, keep taking care of it.
32:29
But more because now it's more relaxed.
32:33
And I've seen the other one where the follower starts to
32:36
dance like this goes, gay boy, I trust you take me places and
32:42
you, you do something that takes the trust away.
32:45
I've seen both processes in play.
32:48
I have been witnessing as a teacher more recently that
32:52
neither sometimes are taking place.
32:55
It's almost like there's a person's not giving the trust
32:58
right away or not giving the chance for the trust to develop,
33:03
the trust to get close. I mean, here guys, so they trust
33:06
you hold less tension in your muscles, the trust you get a
33:09
little bit closer in the embrace.
33:11
And I have noticed that there is a third one that plays safe in
33:16
the sense of to avoid any misunderstandings, to avoid
33:22
anything, I shall keep this distance the whole time.
33:26
I'll stay here the whole time, you know, just in case.
33:29
But then what I've been also noticing too is that when they
33:33
later come and share, there is a desire to not stay in that state
33:39
the whole time. There is a desire to trust.
33:42
There isn't just the trust to trust.
33:45
And I think that's where I feel very sad sometimes because
33:49
Brazilian partner dancing is such a beautiful group of dances
33:54
that gives you a place for you to get close to somebody in a
33:59
way that is respectful. There is mindful, there is
34:03
tender. You know, and I know that
34:05
several people come to Brazilian Zook because they see that for
34:09
that reason, once they get there, maybe because of these
34:13
things that Allison was saying that the people that have all
34:16
these shoots in their heads that they should we should get close
34:18
or that we should be far. You slowly start developing this
34:22
little thick layer of protection around you that you still want
34:26
to keep doing the dance because it brings you joy and you stay
34:29
in it. But there is something that you
34:31
feel that is missing that you would like to have.
34:34
And whenever we talk about this, and whenever I see people
34:38
talking about this, they tell me, and I can notice as well
34:41
that there is a earning or a desire to find a way around it,
34:46
to find a way to trust it, to find a way to relax a little bit
34:49
more. You know what I mean?
34:51
Oh. Yes, I do, and I'm in my head
34:54
here going into my feelings and experiencing all the things.
34:57
If you watch the episode again, you'll see that my eyes are
35:01
everywhere because I'm really going through movies here.
35:04
What is said in the last one really resonate with me because
35:09
there's been times where I really wanted to continue
35:15
getting to that place where both of us were going, and I put this
35:20
stop. I said enough.
35:24
Not because I wanted to stop, not because the person told me
35:29
they wanted to stop, just because of the pressure that I
35:35
put myself as a member of the community.
35:39
In that moment, my father and I were in the bubble and feeling
35:44
like nothing else mattered. Let's just explore as far as
35:49
this magical experience goes. But I told myself no, this is
35:55
not the right time. This is not the right place.
35:58
There's people here. We are in a social, We should be
36:02
respectful of the environment and not make other people feel
36:06
uncomfortable with anything or make people feel conscious about
36:12
the fact that we are having that experience.
36:14
But when we dance with other people, we don't have that
36:18
experience. And maybe other people going to
36:20
think they're not good enough when they dance with us, with me
36:25
and with that follower to get to that level.
36:28
So like, Oh my God, so many things in my head that I'm just
36:32
like, how, how do I deal with this?
36:35
And I've said this before, for about 10 years of my career, I
36:40
was very much in a box because I created that box and I put
36:43
myself into that professional box.
36:46
These are the list of things that I'm allowed to do.
36:48
These are the list of things that I'm not allowed to do.
36:50
And since then, it's been almost another 10 years that I've been
36:55
trying to find a comfortable place outside of the box.
37:00
But I don't know if I want to completely get out-of-the-box or
37:05
I don't know. I just know that I'm trying to
37:08
get out of that box. So there's a lot of like that
37:12
baggage that still holds me and makes me think about what's
37:17
right and what's wrong, what's allowed and what's not allowed.
37:21
We in the community, we have a lot of Intel about what goes
37:26
around in the community. That may be a lot of the wide
37:29
community doesn't know. So we hear a lot of things and I
37:33
instantly put that on my list of things over on my wall of like,
37:38
don't ever say this, don't ever do that because this is not
37:43
allowed. So as I'm speaking here, I'm
37:46
trying to understand why and how to deal with this.
37:51
And I just had a light bulb which told me to say that it's
37:55
all about context. I don't know, it just happened.
37:59
And I think that makes a lot of sense because what is allowed?
38:04
What's not allowed, What's correct and incorrect?
38:08
Even when we're teaching Vita Jinga, should we rotate this
38:12
much or should we rotate less? Wow.
38:14
It depends on the context. So I think that's really, really
38:19
what we need to understand. And that's why it's so difficult
38:24
because if I'm in a private lesson with a student and the
38:28
student wants to work in connection and we both tell each
38:32
other, OK, let's be open and honest, when anything feels
38:36
uncomfortable, that is the place to go, go, go.
38:39
Or if I'm in a training session with somebody, not a prevalence,
38:42
just a session where it's me and that person in the studio, no
38:46
cameras, no people around, That's a safe container, safe
38:49
place. But if I'm practicing with other
38:53
people in the room, if it's a social, if it's a festival, or
38:56
maybe even in a situation where you're in a Weekender that you
39:01
are the artist, where there's lots of people wanting to dance
39:04
with you and have such an experience.
39:07
If you have such special experiences with one person but
39:10
with nobody else, then in my head I just made everybody else
39:14
in that room feel like they are not good enough.
39:18
That's kind of like how I feel. But yeah, I need to work.
39:22
Yeah, I need to work on this. Let's.
39:24
Work on this. After this episode, let's have a
39:27
conversation. We need to work on that story.
39:30
It's very harsh. No, seriously, I feel like that
39:33
even if I go to a social here in Taipei and I'm having certain
39:36
connections with a person or even with my wife, like I want
39:40
to have that moment with my wife.
39:42
And I'm already feeling guilty that everybody else in the room
39:45
is not going to have that experience.
39:47
And I should be somebody who provides a reasonable and equal
39:51
experience to everybody. There's a lot of therapy here, a
39:55
lot of. Therapy there.
39:57
I think the only thing I can say right now with the time that we
40:01
have left is we have a lot of what ifs there.
40:05
Like when you're mentioning what if, people feel this way, what
40:08
if, what if, what if, what if, what if, And it stems from that
40:12
thing. We are trying to look good and
40:14
avoid looking bad. And the third thing is the
40:19
story. That's the part that we need to
40:22
talk about, my friends, is that story.
40:26
Because when I am in a social and I am dancing, for example,
40:29
when I'm in Taipei, I remember I was in Taipei 1 of the last
40:32
times I was there. One of the most epic times, it
40:35
was the social for Ariel Lechisia.
40:38
Remember the socialism for Ariel Lechisia?
40:41
They're worrying that in the venue where they teach the
40:43
hustle, where they teach my school swing.
40:45
Beautiful. Very.
40:47
Yeah. And then I danced the last songs
40:49
with Ting and I was possessed. I was possessed.
40:53
I was like, wow, that's how they almost feel.
40:55
Like, yeah, I was feeling so man cool.
40:59
Even though it's like I was. Feeling so cool like wow, Yago
41:01
must feel like this all the time so learn about learn about then
41:08
switching from the resident Zook to the back to Brazilian Zook.
41:11
I was just in the state of flow was not the last time I was in
41:14
the state of flow and I was in 15 and I remember people were
41:17
watching it and the story that I was telling myself was just how
41:23
much fun I could possibly have. And the people who are watching,
41:29
I was thinking they're watching as a form of inspiration to
41:33
inspire back, you know. So that was a story that came,
41:36
which is very interesting because in this story that you
41:38
mentioned is, oh, they will feel upset because they won't be able
41:44
to have that thing with me. And I should be able to have
41:46
that thing with everybody. And I think the other side of
41:50
this would be while they're seeing me having this thing,
41:54
perhaps that can inspire them to have this thing with somebody
41:56
else. You know, I do see the
41:59
expectation that can be created when they come and dance with
42:02
you because I had this for a long time.
42:05
I want to have the ghee dance or the ghee experience.
42:08
So there is like this thing of coming and I, oh, I must deliver
42:13
this thing, you know, but over time, understanding that for me
42:17
to get to that place, there is so much stuff that needs to
42:21
happen, so much development. It was the thing that we have
42:25
been, you know, dancing almost every day.
42:28
The social was really nice. The vibes were amazing.
42:31
You know, you were there and I was there.
42:33
They just were there so we would have our let's speak Portuguese
42:37
time and mingle and socialize. The whole thing was, you know,
42:42
like you said, context, the context of everything.
42:45
And I think everybody could, I don't know if they felt the
42:49
context or if they but by their faces and what people came to
42:53
talk to me afterwards. So it seemed the magical
42:57
experiences with a person as a source of inspiration was a way
43:02
that helped me enjoy that. While other people are watching,
43:06
you know, in a way that they will see people having fun,
43:10
they'll see people having joy, and they will realize that there
43:14
is a different layer. Especially imagine a beginner
43:17
watching and they're seeing us smiling so much, having so much
43:21
fun, going crazy, and also in the closeness going everywhere.
43:25
And they'll be like, man, oh, who is that?
43:29
So when they come dance with me, I can give them a little bit of
43:33
that. You know, I will not give you
43:34
them the same for sure, but I can give them some of that
43:39
because I'm so nurtured, my battery is so full that when I
43:44
dance with them, although I might not be able to give the
43:46
same experience, I'll give them an experience.
43:49
You know what I mean? That's something that helps you
43:52
so much to navigate the situations because the nurturing
43:57
that kind of dance can give, you can actually give you more
44:02
energy to give that to somebody else, even if it's not the same.
44:05
So that's what I mean, you know what I mean?
44:06
Like you dance with Ting, your wife, man, the other thing?
44:10
The other. Thing.
44:11
The other thing, the thing that I miss is Ting.
44:13
Lou. Look her up.
44:14
She's amazing. You dance with your Ting and
44:17
then that thing nurtures you. And then they're like father is
44:20
full. And then when you look to
44:22
somebody else, they're like, get ready, get ready.
44:25
You're about to receive, you know, so that's the thing.
44:28
I can relate to that and I can totally understand everything
44:32
that you said. When I'm having fun exciting
44:36
fire dances, once I get to the emotional, the more vulnerable,
44:42
more slow and intimate dances, that's when I get really, really
44:48
in my head conscious, guilty and all of the things.
44:53
So that makes sense. Let's say again with my wife, if
44:56
I'm having those fire crazy dances, I'm like, come on, yes,
44:59
everybody watch. This is so much fun.
45:02
Look, we can do this. OK, Yeah, let's that somebody's
45:05
watching and I'm already lock eyes and I'm like, let's dance
45:08
next song. Like that's happening.
45:12
But if I'm dancing with my wife once again and we're getting to
45:15
that place where we want to hug and we want to have a deeper
45:19
dance or with anybody else, all of those other feelings come
45:23
into play like guilt. This is not the right place.
45:28
I shouldn't be making other people feel a certain way.
45:33
So many things. Yeah, well, in this case.
45:36
By context, they would see you dancing with your wife, like,
45:39
oh, it's his wife, Yeah. With her, I'm just like, guys,
45:42
mind your business. Let me enjoy life with my wife
45:46
here, Keith. Yes, my wife is different.
45:48
Exactly. If it is with another person, I
45:51
can see that happening for sure myself.
45:53
I think that the inspiration thing also can happen in the
45:56
other way of like, oh man, look how close that is.
46:00
You know, I want that too kind of thing.
46:02
And I think we will need another episode too.
46:04
Oh, absolutely. To approach all these.
46:06
Things because there are so many things we need to talk about in
46:09
that sense, especially when we talk about this level of
46:13
closeness and slowness. And I mean, it doesn't have to
46:17
be slow in the movement, but it's the slowness in how much
46:20
you do and how you build everything.
46:22
So we need more time and we don't have the.
46:27
All the guilt yes so well let's leave this one for another
46:32
episode guys. Thank you so much for being
46:35
here. And if you enjoy this and if you
46:37
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Follow, subscribe, share this with your friends because it
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47:00
patience, Patience, Abrasus and Ciao.
47:06
Everybody.