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Trust and Empathy: Bridging Leadership Styles Across Cultures with Raphael Savalle · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:40
  I got it.
• 0:40
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:41
  Thanks for tuning in again this week to authenticate living in with Roxanne.
• 0:46
  Today, I have a special guest Rafael Sam Sabelli.
• 0:49
  Is that how I pronounce the last person?
• 0:51
  Isabelle.
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  I'm not sure.
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  Rafael is a a friend of a colleague that lives in Europe and Rafael has a pretty interesting
• 0:59
  background and, the synergies is that he likes to work with hearts and minds and helping
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  others become the best versions of themselves within companies.
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  He's an engineer at heart.
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  So I would say very leaner systemic and making connections.
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  He's an entrepreneur and a CF creative CFO and has been living living his aspirations to help
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  transform businesses.
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  He's done consulting from places like Deloitte, the Spiegle Group, and an international
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  consulting team in Chicago USA.
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  He currently lives in Switzerland where he volunteers with of the largest sports
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  organization since Switzerland for youth and, yeah, and adults with about 32 footballer
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  soccer teams like we would say here at North America.
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  He holds an MBA in finance, marketing, and strategy from Kellogg School of Management and
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  an MS from it called National, in France and automation and inter electrical engineering
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  from their national public technique of France.
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  Wow.
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  Quite the the CB Rafael.
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  Thanks so much for taking the time come on today and and chat with us.
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  Thank you very much for calling me.
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  It's it's my pleasure.
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  It's great to connect.
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  We were chatting earlier before we got online that my book, ROR, return on relationships,
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  talks about the connection that leaders have that responsibility to take care of their
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  mental well-being.
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  I often say that sometimes in the old way of leadership, it was very autocratic top down.
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  And we've since are now living the reality.
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  That's, you know, the opposite is is needed.
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  Rafael, let's talk a little bit about, your background and leadership and kind of what
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  brings you today to the role that you're playing as a CFO.
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  Mhmm.
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  Right.
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  Just in in a short, my background, you know, I'm I'm an engineer by training, and I'm also,
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  I think, a bit of an explorer, meaning that, you know, I've got a lot of.
• 3:02
  And and I got to really move from engineering.
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  You were describing electrical engineering to operations engineering, and then working as a
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  consultant, and then got my MBA in Chicago, international, studies and international aspect
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  is very important for me.
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  And, yes, from there working as a consultant, then always kind of learning different areas
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  from operations to actually going into finance.
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  And also touching on marketing and eventually becoming CFO.
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  And I would say CFO plus because CFO now, is the the scope is getting much larger than just
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  accounting or finance.
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  Because you're in a very special position of being able to see the whole company.
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  So, you know, I've I've led HR.
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  I've led IT, of course, legal.
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  I've been interim for R and D.
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  I've been interim CEO as well.
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  I I grew from an engineering background.
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  And I think the curiosity and the explorer mindset got me into leading different function.
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  And, yeah, and being part of a of a team to try to make things better.
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  In a very humble way when you get into a a new role with a company.
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  So let's let's look at that explorer aspect.
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  Right?
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  So you have you've always had curiosity.
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  You're trying to figure out how things work.
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  You've kind of, I would say, touched most business units within a company.
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  Would you say from an international lens that there's a lot of differences in the North
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  American leadership perspective compared to the European or the international frame that you
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  are back in Switzerland now?
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  I would say that there are differences.
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  There are differences, and there are not actually people you know, driven, they're more
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  like system driven.
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  Right?
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  So, typically, my experience in the in in the North America and especially in the US is of of
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  a much more agile, flexible, fast culture.
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  All together, the the system is about much more flexibility, much more agility.
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  I won't say much more entrepreneurship, but, you know, people have a sense of being more
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  flexible.
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  And I think it has to do as well with the size of the country.
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  People move Europe.
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  What I saw is maybe because the countries are smaller, but for sure, because the system is
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  different, there is less of this agility and and flexibility.
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  And that has an impact on on leadership.
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  That has an impact on on I would say management.
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  I wouldn't say leadership, but on the way things are organized, on the way things work.
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  In terms of leadership.
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  I think you are very much into the authentic leadership and how leaders can create a
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  positive environment.
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  I think that doesn't change really because that's because humans are humans and and humans
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  are looking for trust are looking for empathy, are looking for working together, the sense of
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  belonging, and that is universal because that's what gives you, you know, I don't want to say
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  comfort because comfort looks like complacent, right, but comfort in a way that safe safety,
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  right, safety allows you to focus and be really full on and not to worry about other things.
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  And I think ability of any when I say leader, I I I don't think leader has been the executive
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  leaders.
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  I think leader of anyone with part of a team with an impact on others because of decision.
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  Right?
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  So any pretty much anyone has leadership influence.
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  Right?
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  But the goal really to create this safe place.
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  You are talking about mental well-being.
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  It's part of that as well.
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  Right?
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  Then people can dedicate their whole self to what they want to do, and they all want to
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  contribute.
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  We all want to have an impact.
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  Right?
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  So that I think is universal, really.
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  And I think the language now, right, like, we we are open about psychological safety and what
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  is needed.
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  And if I'm able to bring the real version of who I am to work, at A lot of people say, does
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  that mean that people gets gonna be so comfortable?
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  There's no accountability, but I think there's now an understanding that we kind of always
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  know what the KPIs are, the metrics to your point in finance, what's always about, okay,
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  the bottom line, But what you're saying is that as a CFO in your role, what you realize is that
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  there's a broader brush that finance now looks at, not just the business case, maybe
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  potentially for a change, but all the impacts on all the different parts of the business.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  Definitely.
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  I I think and I think from it, it's very important when I was seeing sense of comfort,
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  but not sense of complacency, right, comforting the sense of safety and safety and not to be
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  relaxed and it's safety to bring your whole full energy in a focused way.
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  Right?
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  That's very important.
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  And sometimes this transparency, empathy, can be, how do you say, twisted in a complacency
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  environment.
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  It's not.
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  Right?
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  We we need to perform We need to be and I think we in this line of thought, I think being able
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  to define as a team or as a company what's winning means is really important.
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  Because when we say perform, it's about winning.
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  Do we want to achieve together?
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  What is winning for us?
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  Maybe it's profit, maybe it's gross.
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  Maybe it's impacting the life of more patients.
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  Right?
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  Maybe it's actually getting to more kids to play football.
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  Is you know what I mean?
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  Winning is different depending on where you are engaged.
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  Right?
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  So that's why you are talking about the the the CFO, and I think I don't think the CFOs are
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  really accounting or just number.
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  They and I think, you know, it's the case of every leader.
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  It it it's about holistic.
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  Right?
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  It's how to manage the short term impurities with the long term.
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  And sometimes it's contradictory.
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  Right?
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  But that's okay.
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  We need to to come to a realization of that.
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  It's about risk management, but sometimes people are more or less comfortable with risk
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  as well.
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  Right?
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  So it's we there is a a very how do you say?
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  Yeah.
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  You might expect to to it as well.
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  Right?
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  And and if you want to get performance on that you can see in the number, there is no mystery.
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  It's coming from people, and and we it's always said people are guest assets and so on.
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  But what makes a difference is are people working together collaborating together and and
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  learning so that they can be a better version of themselves and that they can be better
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  tomorrow than they were.
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  Last month.
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  And that's what's gonna bring the company forward.
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  The company is, is an organism, right, made of people.
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  So really, I think when you're a CFO and and that was one of my big challenge of the data is
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  as well as how you come and you can because you are only one person, how you can engage the
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  population of 2000, 2500 people in one direction or, like, more aligned on one
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  direction.
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  So that that there is a performance improvement.
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  So that's why leadership and being able to impact this at a very human level is critical.
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  So it's way beyond numbers.
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  Right?
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  Absolutely.
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  And I, you know, let's go back to the concept.
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  Oh, you've played, interim CEO.
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  You've been CFO with lots of of different organizations.
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  What have you seen that is effective with kind of looking at people look at strap plans and
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  all those things?
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  But let's say if you're a you're coming into an environment.
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  You're the new CFO or at at a senior leadership level, and you're really wanting to but let's
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  say the the company has done kind of not been effective in being transparent with with what
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  winning is, and it's been done poorly.
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  What are some of the things that leaders should be thinking about if they're answering those
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  kinds of environments to make a to even if they're even if they're interim, Rafael, that
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  they could come in and at least make an impact.
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  So when they are leaving, they've done something to move the needle a little bit
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  closer.
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  That's a great question, actually.
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  What would would the first thing I believe is to be very clear and and align on what is
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  winning when you say the company has not been performing, you need to be very clear in terms
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  of what does that mean to be performing?
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  How do we define winning so that so that at least we've got the same goal.
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  And just to refer to Veleda, when I joined Veleda, for example, profit was an
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  afterthought.
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  It was not even discussed.
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  The numbers were not discussed because it was not part of the objective.
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  Right?
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  So in this context, you've got to really how do you define winning so that it resonates with
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  the employees.
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  Right?
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  It resonates with the teams, with the with the colleagues.
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  And at the same time, it is aligning with the the the imperative of the company because so
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  what is winning is really important, and it's also about strategy.
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  What do we want to achieve?
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  How do we want to measure our success?
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  What is gonna be success for us?
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  Right?
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  So getting a line on what's the direction of travel, if I can say.
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  Then I I think we were talking about leaders, and I and I said that leaders is everyone is a
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  leader.
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  I think for me, it's really important to to bring the sense that the solution is in the
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  room.
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  The solution is not gonna come from outside of the room by miracle.
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  So this company, this organization has been performing in a certain way.
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  We need to change the trajectory.
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  No one is gonna do it for us.
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  Right?
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  So it's about us here the 10, the 20 people.
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  And I would say it's at every in every, area.
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  No one is gonna come, to do it for you.
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  And I think if it's about leadership because it's about changing the mindset from, hey.
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  I'm doing I'm I'm gonna do what I'm told to do.
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  2, you can change your work environment.
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  You know better than anyone else what to do to improve.
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  Right?
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  So do it.
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  With the clear goal of what is winning and more likely than not, it's gonna be fabulous.
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  And if it's not, don't worry.
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  We will correct.
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  Right?
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  But if you can create leaders at every level of the organization, we took in we can take
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  initiatives, engage their colleagues, and change their work environment and increase
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  their performance.
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  I mean, the the sense of fulfillment and the sense of gaining, performance as a group as a
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  as a company is gonna be fantastic.
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  So what is winning, the solution is in the room, and the last one is part of what I was
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  saying is be the change you want to see.
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  Right?
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  Again, don't wait any from anyone.
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  Right?
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  We don't change one to see because if you do it yourself and it works and more likely than not,
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  it's gonna work.
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  People will emulate that.
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  So get out of your own way.
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  Don't put yourself barriers.
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  Do it.
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  Something that I often tell my team very early on.
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  I tell them, look.
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  Ask for excuses.
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  Don't ask for permission because else, you're gonna ask for permission and I've got no clue
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  because I'm I'm at one point in your carrier a bit more than other because you do what I mean?
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  When you start your carrier, you are like a beginner, then you are like a senior senior
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  means that you've got 2 years more or 3 more years of of knowledge.
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  Right?
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  So, okay, you have a bit of a heads up.
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  But when you become, like, when you grow up, I would say, then actually what's happening is
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  that you are being you get more and more responsibility faster than you can learn
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  everything.
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  What you learn is about engaging the people and giving them a lot of permission.
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  Right?
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  So I tell them really ask for excuses.
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  And which means that I need to be ready as well for for some mistakes.
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  And that's part of life.
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  That's okay.
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  And I
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  love I love that, and I love the fact that you are giving them permission to try, which is
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  what you're gonna create a space of, look, we don't have the solutions and sometimes we're
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  not we're gonna have those, those full pause, but we're all in it together.
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  And the solution is in the room because I often think that companies think you're gonna bring
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  somebody from, you know, the other part of the world that's gonna come in and they're gonna
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  have all the solutions which really disempowers the people in the room that have been doing it
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  and really know the fundamentals to whether it's a frontline employee all the way up to
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  someone at the senior chair.
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  So it negates in of itself that somebody knows better even though you've been maybe with this
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  company for 20 years or something like that.
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  Yeah.
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  I I wouldn't say don't bring expertise.
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  Don't bring outside view.
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  Bring all of that, but no one is gonna tell you what to do tomorrow that will solve your
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  problem.
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  Right?
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  So if you say, hey.
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  We would all love to have more opportunities in our carriers.
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  Right?
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  And I think it's really important for everyone to make sure that people grow and develop but
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  helping the business to grow is the first step to provide opportunities for everyone else.
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  Right?
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  So it's not gonna come by chance.
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  So we're all in it together.
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  The solution is in the room.
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  We want to have something for our self and for our teams.
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  Let's make it happen.
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  You know, let's get our our out of our own way or remove our own barriers.
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  If we need expertise, knowledge, help, we can get that.
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  No one is gonna come and and give us a solution and and tell us if you do a, b, c, you are
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  gonna be done.
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  It's it doesn't work like that.
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  Sometimes those are those are these are all the concepts that I write about in my book.
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  A trust, transparency, communication, decision making, decision making, that's an alignment in
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  your personal life and your professional life, all those amazing things.
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  And we were talking, you know, just about family and how that congruence.
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  However, I'm gonna say that sometimes the perception is that leaders are separate from
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  their teams.
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  And if you're coming into an environment like that, people sometimes stay away from the lead
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  than say the person that's leading.
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  So what are some of the ways that you would suggest if there are leaders in whatever
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  capacity that's listening to us today, Rafael, that you could kind of start to work on that
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  divide.
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  Make it less so.
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  What are some of the things that you've learned as a senior leader that has helped you, or what
• 18:12
  have you seen maybe with others, or what have you seen that does not work?
• 18:17
  Yeah.
• 18:18
  No.
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  That's a great question, actually.
• 18:19
  I and I think really so there is this concept that you must be familiar with, but it's about
• 18:26
  the servant leader.
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  Right?
• 18:28
  And really, that's that's what I've always in the back of my mind.
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  I'm not here to tell you what to do.
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  I'm here to help you perform.
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  I'm here to help you be safe.
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  I'm here to help you connect.
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  I'm here to help you maybe to push you.
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  Maybe to provide resources, maybe, you know, to be a sounding board.
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  So it's about this servant leader.
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  You are here as a facilitator as a supporter, as a coach, as the best enemy or the best
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  challenger, if I can say.
• 18:58
  Some people Yeah.
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  You need it to be a servant leader.
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  So for me, it's very important.
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  So it's not, me and them, you are where you need to deserve, and I'm here to support you.
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  Right?
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  That's one.
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  I think as as a leader, you still have this a lot of decision that you make, of course.
• 19:18
  Right?
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  We shouldn't shy away from that when in terms of staffing, in terms of who is gonna join the
• 19:23
  team in your recruit.
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  Right?
• 19:24
  So those are very important decisions.
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  There is one important decision I think that you make as a leader.
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  Is what I call the routine.
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  The listings are organized, if I can say.
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  Right?
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  So in finance, there is the closing of the amount.
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  There is the you review the numbers.
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  You publish the numbers.
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  Right?
• 19:40
  So this cadence and every company as a cadence.
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  Right?
• 19:45
  Every company beat in production, beat in sales.
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  There is a cadence for everything.
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  And that's the way it's organized or not is really the role that you have.
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  It's very important.
• 19:57
  So and here, for me, it's about organizing it with the team, being really collaborative.
• 20:03
  And the last part is, of course, so it's a open door comic about communication.
• 20:09
  And for me, it's very simple.
• 20:11
  My door is like, it's not always open, but it's a glass.
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  It's a It's a completely transparent.
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  It might be a revolving door.
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  Which might be a bit of a
• 20:20
  It's not a revolving door, but people actually, I love it.
• 20:23
  People stop by the check on the the door is transparent, so that it's a glass pet paint so
• 20:28
  they can check come in.
• 20:30
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  Those things that I'm starting, and I've seen that when company do that, and I think it's
• 20:34
  great.
• 20:34
  He's having lunch with with employees with colleagues, and it's I think it's great and
• 20:40
  being able to really connect.
• 20:43
  I do myself, I do participate a lot with the employee onboarding.
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  The Okay.
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  At Veleda, we've got, like, a lot of we've got a a full onboarding process for every new
• 20:53
  employee, and I love to do that.
• 20:56
  And I I I participate, and I I try to meet new employees and and, yeah, and to reduce this
• 21:04
  this distance.
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  You know, I think that's what we need to be all.
• 21:08
  I'm always trying to reduce the distance.
• 21:10
  Couldn't connect.
• 21:11
  Be present as much as possible, be communicative, and be a servant leader be here
• 21:17
  for your for your team.
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  But for anyone who can help, who needs help.
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  I love I love that.
• 21:21
  I like that.
• 21:22
  You take your role as like you said, the cadence with what you what needs to get done.
• 21:26
  It has to be systematic.
• 21:27
  So if you're new, people's gonna they're gonna try to get your timing, Rafael.
• 21:32
  What is Rafael like?
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  And maybe you're so different potentially from the last leader that people are waiting.
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  Right?
• 21:38
  They're waiting to come maybe if they'd say the leader preceding you was not was ineffective.
• 21:42
  They're waiting for the other shoe to draw up just to say, uh-huh, here we go again.
• 21:47
  But I like that you say that once you kind of create that consistency, like like, when you're
• 21:51
  telling a story, you'd be getting middle and ends that allows people to relax and just give
• 21:55
  you the benefit of the doubt.
• 21:57
  And I love the touch points.
• 21:59
  Right?
• 21:59
  Like you said, not just when something's wrong, but, you know, whether it's the onboarding
• 22:04
  process.
• 22:04
  So if I'm a brand new, and I meet the the CFO and the CEO.
• 22:08
  I feel special.
• 22:09
  I feel engaged.
• 22:10
  I feel like, wow.
• 22:11
  This is a company I can grow with town halls.
• 22:14
  Like, the events, like you said, people are not just once a year at the annual meeting, having
• 22:20
  you do this fancy speech on the phone kind of thing.
• 22:25
  No.
• 22:25
  Something that I really love to do.
• 22:26
  For example, it's quirky, but I really love to do.
• 22:29
  It's me.
• 22:30
  It's to write the birthday cards the work anniversary, the maternity.
• 22:36
  So we there is a process.
• 22:38
  It needs to be organized.
• 22:39
  Right?
• 22:40
  Possibly.
• 22:40
  25100 employees.
• 22:41
  That's a lot of writing, Rafael.
• 22:43
  So I I do that for the I do that for the for the the site.
• 22:47
  We we have this concept of the site ownership if you want.
• 22:50
  Right?
• 22:50
  I'm kind of more in charge of the suite site.
• 22:53
  But it's still got 300, 400 employees locally.
• 22:56
  People have 1 year anniversary, 5 years anniversary, 10, 15, 20, anniversary work
• 23:02
  anniversary.
• 23:03
  People have, wedding.
• 23:05
  People have babies.
• 23:07
  People have and, of course, being there writing a little note for me, it's an opportunity to
• 23:13
  connect, an opportunity to say, hey.
• 23:15
  That's a wonderful event for you, and we love that you are part of the family and
• 23:21
  congratulation.
• 23:22
  So I love to do that.
• 23:23
  My my the HR team locally knows that.
• 23:26
  They always bring me the the cards and say, hey.
• 23:28
  Here's the stack of cards, and and I think it's a huge privilege.
• 23:31
  To be able to send the a little message to our colleagues.
• 23:34
  And and because I know I would feel when you join a company, you've got the flowers, you've
• 23:38
  got your welcome.
• 23:40
  Yes.
• 23:40
  After 1 year, you receive a little note from the CFO or the CEO, and you feel special.
• 23:45
  Right?
• 23:45
  And And then I get to know them as well, right, because I get to know, oh, this is just mean
• 23:51
  and just mean, got a baby.
• 23:52
  And and now I know a bit more about testing.
• 23:54
  So it's great.
• 23:55
  Again, that congruence between that you can relate to me in a way, and I'm taking the extra
• 24:01
  step to try to connect with you.
• 24:03
  I'll give you an example.
• 24:04
  When I was interviewing leaders for my book, there was one leader that I interviewed, and it
• 24:09
  was around the the the interviews were right around the beginning of the pandemic.
• 24:13
  So he smaller company, though, but nonetheless, about 200 employees.
• 24:19
  And what he made his executive team do was to, do rating rate quick touch points with each one
• 24:26
  of his employees.
• 24:28
  What he said is he was It was the first time he recognized the importance of a little chit
• 24:34
  chat, but he also saw the fear that it brought to a lot of people because they were taking the
• 24:40
  time and they said I hadn't had ever had this kind of time with you So I assumed now that you
• 24:46
  were taking this 5 to 10 minutes to chit chat that in fact, the company was closing.
• 24:51
  We were losing our jobs, and they were so grateful.
• 24:55
  He said that they were able to come up with a plan which reduced everybody came up with a
• 25:00
  plan to reduce all of their hours.
• 25:02
  So in in fact, nobody would lose jobs.
• 25:05
  And he was he said, Roxanne, it's interesting.
• 25:07
  Like, to your point, Rafael, the solution is in the room, and he it was a fundamental lesson
• 25:14
  for him that you know, when you connect and we're human to human, regardless a role.
• 25:20
  Exactly.
• 25:20
  You
• 25:20
  can pull out of of all the riches that's right in your backyard kind of thing.
• 25:26
  Yeah.
• 25:26
  Exactly.
• 25:26
  And, you know, the I'm an engineer.
• 25:29
  And I told you, and and I went into operations, and I was fascinated by the Toyota management
• 25:35
  system.
• 25:36
  And I don't know if you are familiar with that, Mr.
• 25:38
  Toyota.
• 25:38
  So the founder of Toyota will formalize and conceptualize.
• 25:42
  It's essentially the leadership principles.
• 25:44
  Yeah.
• 25:45
  And one of them is Gem Gamba.
• 25:48
  And Gamba is about managing by walking.
• 25:50
  So that's the way you say it in English.
• 25:52
  Right?
• 25:52
  It's really that it's making sure that when you've got a bit of time, go around the
• 25:57
  corridor, go down into the the each of the floors.
• 26:01
  Make sure that you open every office.
• 26:03
  Just say, hi.
• 26:04
  Hey.
• 26:05
  Yeah.
• 26:05
  It's part of that.
• 26:06
  Right?
• 26:06
  So it's for me, it's funny because, again, I came from engineering was fascinated by this
• 26:13
  management system of the Japanese, and it was linked with leadership.
• 26:17
  But in fact, I do try to practice it as well to connect with people, yeah, and being open.
• 26:23
  Yeah.
• 26:24
  It's it's amazing.
• 26:24
  Right?
• 26:25
  It's the basic fundamentals because what I have to talk about is as a leader, but to your
• 26:29
  point, anybody can need when you understand your stress response and if you're overwhelmed
• 26:36
  and you realize, okay.
• 26:37
  You're you're kind of activated.
• 26:40
  It of course, how are you gonna be when you are under that space?
• 26:44
  And to be able to pull back or to recognize that or not deliver certain messages on those
• 26:51
  points when you're not at your optimal best.
• 26:54
  So I have to say the leaders.
• 26:55
  You're expecting that of others.
• 26:57
  It's about you understanding that space within yourself.
• 27:00
  And if you do step into it and make a mistake that you have to be vulnerable enough to say to
• 27:05
  call it because that in of itself is such an amazing space for others because then they go,
• 27:12
  wow.
• 27:12
  If he or she could identify that they were opt not optimally functioning or reactive in some
• 27:19
  way.
• 27:21
  I also have duty to be able to do the same, right, because they are as real as I can I am?
• 27:27
  They have feelings like I do, and we're all in this together.
• 27:30
  And it's something that's powerful when you see it in a room, and I'm sure you've seen it in
• 27:34
  the different environments as well.
• 27:36
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  I know it's so it's funny that you said that because, you know, when I was, thinking about
• 27:41
  our discussion, I think you always try to be the best every day.
• 27:45
  Right?
• 27:45
  You try to do all of those things.
• 27:48
  But as you said, every day, you are not at your best.
• 27:51
  Right?
• 27:51
  And sometimes you are stressed.
• 27:52
  It's a lot of work.
• 27:53
  You have not
• 27:54
  Yeah.
• 27:54
  Fam family kids.
• 27:56
  I don't know.
• 27:57
  There are some life is difficult.
• 27:59
  It's not always simple.
• 28:02
  And, therefore, it it's good to recognize that, but you are not perfect.
• 28:06
  You are just trying to be a slightly better version of yourself from yesterday.
• 28:11
  Sometimes you your animal brain, sticks over, your tire, it's funny what you said because it
• 28:18
  happened to me, like, before vacation, it's perfect time if there's a rush.
• 28:24
  I think it's important to be thankful to to recognize it with your team.
• 28:27
  Say, hey, guys.
• 28:28
  The last 3 weeks here has been not easy.
• 28:30
  Thank you for bearing the fraud organizations, supporting me, and I I I think being open as
• 28:37
  well, you know, it's part of authentic leadership, right, but being open about your
• 28:40
  own shop coming but your own struggle because it's true.
• 28:45
  We all are trying to be a better.
• 28:47
  It's also making, the the work environment a safe place for others to say, hey, sorry guys.
• 28:54
  This time I why it was too difficult for me, but I need your help.
• 29:00
  I think, actually, one of the one of the the the learning I've had when I I'm growing up
• 29:07
  every day and trying to grow up.
• 29:08
  1 of the learning I've had is actually being able to ask for help.
• 29:12
  Is like, you know, a sign of, maturity, a sign of self awareness, a sign of recognizing that,
• 29:19
  hey, you don't have to know it all.
• 29:22
  You don't have to be the 100% or the 200% being able to ask for help is really like a sign of
• 29:28
  that you that you are self aware in some way.
• 29:31
  And it's I I would really give advice to anyone to really think, hey.
• 29:36
  You need help.
• 29:36
  Ask for help.
• 29:37
  And you may be surprised actually.
• 29:39
  Because you may get help.
• 29:40
  That's really helped.
• 29:43
  But the overarching principle is that there's self awareness.
• 29:46
  Right?
• 29:46
  And I think to your point, you know, when you when the leader is self aware and We all have
• 29:52
  strengths.
• 29:53
  We all have blind spots.
• 29:54
  We all have difficult, like you said, crunch times.
• 29:57
  We're optimally, and it may be something not related to work or maybe it's work and crunch
• 30:01
  time at the same time, but being able to come back and and show that transparency the impact
• 30:07
  on the bottom line is it would be if you were to look at it, it's, yeah, you would would say
• 30:12
  it's a soft understanding, but the quantifiable numbers quarter after quarter when someone
• 30:17
  feels like, I'm gonna bring the best version for for Rafael because he I can see how hard he
• 30:23
  is doing the same for me, and then it's gonna it's good to impact so many things that maybe
• 30:28
  we won't be able to see on the spreadsheet at certain point, but it's gonna at some point,
• 30:34
  affect connection, decrease in arbitrations, possessivism, all those all those numbers at
• 30:40
  some point.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:42
  No.
• 30:42
  Yeah.
• 30:42
  It's that's exactly that because we all know.
• 30:45
  You can do the job.
• 30:46
  Or you can do the job plus.
• 30:48
  Right?
• 30:49
  And the plus, when I say plus, it's you are really proud of what you did, and you did it in
• 30:54
  a creative way, and you did it in an innovative way, and you would love to have it as a starter
• 31:00
  and you would love to teach it to someone.
• 31:02
  You know what I mean?
• 31:03
  That's doing the job plus and but you do that if you Yeah.
• 31:07
  Yeah.
• 31:07
  Care about what's happening after you.
• 31:09
  If you care about your colleagues, if you care for the the repetition, you know, if you really
• 31:15
  do care, then you do the job plus.
• 31:17
  Right?
• 31:17
  And that's that what's makes the difference.
• 31:20
  Right?
• 31:20
  It's going it's not going it's not about going a 150%.
• 31:24
  It's going it's doing it with care, with attention, with your special plus.
• 31:28
  And you can you only do that if if you feel part of the team and that should be recognized
• 31:34
  and that it it's gonna be valued and not valued necessary monetary, but valued, hey, wow,
• 31:40
  impressive.
• 31:41
  Right.
• 31:41
  I I have a space.
• 31:43
  I belong.
• 31:44
  And I I could bring, the full version of myself, and there's meaning and purpose in,
• 31:49
  like you said, the strategy and I have my spot, and I'm vitally important And without my role,
• 31:56
  the win is not possible.
• 31:58
  If you can wrap that around, I think you've done a good job.
• 32:01
  Rafael, this has been an amazing conversation.
• 32:03
  I and I think you and I, Natasha was so, aligned in and and connecting us.
• 32:08
  I'm so happy that we were able to do this interview today.
• 32:11
  Now for people that are thinking they like, you know, what we've talked about or engaging with
• 32:17
  you, where can they get ahold of you if and tell them a little bit about what you're doing
• 32:22
  now?
• 32:23
  Yeah.
• 32:24
  They can they can contact me on LinkedIn.
• 32:26
  That's the best way to send me a message.
• 32:28
  And, yeah, I'm always very happy to I I like your title, return on relationship because for
• 32:35
  me, it's all about relationship and all about helping for a while and and trying to make
• 32:39
  place a little bit better.
• 32:40
  A little bit better.
• 32:41
  We shouldn't we should be humbling what we can do.
• 32:44
  But a LinkedIn message, happy to connect, happy to help, and share if this can help.
• 32:49
  Awesome.
• 32:50
  Awesome.
• 32:50
  Awesome to discuss with you today.
• 32:52
  What am I taking away?
• 32:54
  Focus on what the definition of winning is and what are the strategies, and communication
• 32:56
  styles that you need in the different leaders in order to define that.
• 33:09
  And if you're not clear and I my challenge for anybody that's listening that leads is to go
• 33:14
  out and say, how do I know when we're winning?
• 33:18
  And if I don't know, I would say go back to the drawing law board and go back to your team and
• 33:23
  say based on our vision, our mission, and our strategic plan, what does it mean for you?
• 33:29
  Ask the right questions and be humble to listen if you're just beginning this process.
• 33:35
  So, Rafael, thanks again, for hanging out with us today.
• 33:38
  For everyone, if you're wanting to know how authentically connected you are in in your
• 33:43
  relationships either at home or at work, go to roxanne or hodge.com forward slash quiz.
• 33:47
  There's a mini quiz.
• 33:48
  You do it really quick.
• 33:49
  1 or 2 minutes.
• 33:50
  We send you back an assessment with some results with some next steps.
• 33:54
  And if you're looking for some direction, just just drop me a a message, and I'll get back to
• 34:00
  you.
• 34:00
  Again, take care, Rafael.
• 34:01
  Have a great day, everyone, and we'll chat with you next week.
• 34:05
  Bye bye.
• 34:05
  Thank you.
• 34:05
  Thank you so much for
• 34:25
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 34:31
  healthy change.
• 34:32
  Roxanne is a key speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 34:38
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 34:43
  We'll see you next time.
• 34:44
  An authentic living with Roxanne.