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The Players Lounge | Mark O'Brien: I Broke Stelling's Heart · GH Connects Lounge

0:14
Mark O'Brien, Newport County legend.
0:17
Before I move to Manchester, this is one conversation that I wanted to have.
0:21
There's only one place for us to start though.
0:23
As a Newport boy, the great escape.
0:25
How do you remember it?
0:27
Do you know what?
0:28
Like I do remember it like it was yesterday.
0:30
I think everything that went on from the moment when I signed under Graham Wesley, it was, we were rock bottom of the league.
0:37
He was signing 10 to 11 new players.
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He wanted the whole reshape of his squad.
0:43
And the hard work that got put into from that January till that final day was nothing but amazing.
0:51
Because when Michael Flynn ended up taking over in the March time, we were 11 points from safety with 12 games to go.
0:57
And I think anybody who I've spoken to, people back at home or other people in football, we were already down in everybody's eyes.
1:05
But I used to always hold on to the kind of fate of, unless on Sky Sports your name is in bold red, there's always still a chance.
1:13
So we carried on playing with Michael Flynn.
1:15
We just picked up wins and we picked up another win and we just gradually got stronger and stronger.
1:20
Now there was a couple of hiccups along the way, but for us to then get it to the last day of the season and I'd say we had about 2,000 fans in a home game.
1:31
Last day of the season, you turn up and you see,
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seven and a half thousand people there all like with the amber colors and you're just standing there thinking today's it and i remember waking up that morning and i it was a 20 past five kickoff and i remember waking up and it was like half eight nine o'clock in the morning and i was living in a hotel at the time
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And I couldn't go back to sleep.
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I couldn't do anything.
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And I'm literally sitting there thinking to myself, today's the day.
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And like, it was all that adrenaline rush.
2:00
And I was just thinking, I wish it was an early kickoff to get it out of the way.
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Like I can't sit around all day.
2:05
But then when it came to the fixture,
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we went out and the whole four staff went perfect.
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It was kind of, we went one, the look, Mickey Dmitri, who scored the pen, Oh, and everything was fine.
2:15
We didn't feel like under any sort of pressure.
2:18
We knew Hartley Poole were losing one nil.
2:20
So that in itself was totally fine.
2:23
And then it was in the 79th minute or so.
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we hear that Hartley Poole have just gone 2-1 up against Doncaster.
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So then Michael Flynn brings on two strikers, and we hear from the fans, it's just get the ball forward, get the ball forward.
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Anyone who went down, you're running over to pick them up, and we didn't know what was happening, and I think it was within the space of around the 87th minute.
2:44
I looked over on the sideline to ask how to go up front, and obviously Wayne Hatswell said, yeah, get yourself forward.
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And with that, I remember the ball traveling over my head, and my head looks one way, and then it looks the complete other way, and...
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It goes out wide.
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David Poype crosses it in with his left foot.
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And it just fell to my chest.
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And as I chested it, it was almost like an instinct.
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Like it wasn't something that I practiced.
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I was a centre-back at the end of the day.
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But when I chested it and I volleyed it and it goes in bottom corner, like that feeling in that stadium was like no other I've ever come across.
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Like it was just...
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There was a sense of relief.
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There was a sense of joy.
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There was tears.
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There was everything.
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And to see how much it meant to Newport now this many years later, honestly, it still blows me away to this minute.
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And it could have been anyone to score that goal.
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But I think we...
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the way my life has panned itself out, I was kind of thinking that moment was meant for me, for everything that I kind of went through.
3:38
Do you know what?
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I got my moment in football.
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And I think that is something that will live with me forever.
3:44
And well, it's funny you mentioned that because I was going to ask you, is it true that Mike Flynn told you to stay back?
3:50
Yeah, no, it's definitely true because it was when I looked over and I said, can I go up front?
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And he was like, no, no, stay there, stay there.
3:56
And it was Wayne Atwell that, as I said, he didn't say it in the most polite way, but it was get yourself forward.
4:02
So because it was the week before against Carlisle, we were 2-1 down against Carlisle.
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I ended up going up front in that game just to win a flick on.
4:11
It was the same scenario.
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So I just thought, let me do it again.
4:15
And obviously, they didn't expect the ball to drop to me.
4:17
But yeah, Mike Flynn is someone that you'd probably sit in front of and he'd say that.
4:21
He didn't tell me that, but I know for a fact he did.
4:23
It was Wayne Hotswell that should get all the credit for it.
4:25
And what did he say to you afterwards?
4:27
Afterwards, there wasn't really much said.
4:29
It was just pure chaos.
4:32
I think everything that went on in the game, I think...
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nobody could really believe.
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There was a sense of relief when we got back into the change room.
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We were all celebrating and we were all chanting, we are staying up, but there wasn't much conversation.
4:46
It was just almost like Michael Flynn said to the group, you've gone down in the history of Newport, what you've just achieved, you've gone down in the history.
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And it's only over the next couple of years you will realise how much that this day is going to matter.
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And as you say, when I'm only new to Newport, I'm only six months now,
5:03
in the city, I never realised the significance on it.
5:06
And only until this day, realising what relegation does mean for this club and what can happen if this club goes anywhere near National League, it is a lot of livelihoods on the line.
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So now when I realise the significance of it, it makes me even prouder of the goal.
5:22
And it's also how hard it is to get out of the National League.
5:24
Well, I think even in this day and age, it's probably even harder because there's a lot more financial backing in the National League than there was years ago.
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Like, if Newport had been relegated years ago, you could maybe try and rougher out for a little while, but the finances weren't there for the majority of sides.
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So you could maybe battle your way back or however it may look.
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But I think you look at it now, the financial backing of so many clubs that it's normally the...
5:48
teams most financially backed, build the strongest squads possible and sometimes run away with the leagues.
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The example that I always think of is Wrexham.
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Wrexham built the league one side in National League, which are Bentos and Mullins and different things.
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They're all playing National League.
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So then by the time they get promoted to League 2, they're already in an established, solid League 2 team to then progress on to League 1.
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So they did it correctly.
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But unless you have that financial backing getting relegated, I think you'll always struggle.
6:18
Going back to obviously keeping Newport up at what point did you watch Jeff Stelling's reaction of your goal?
6:26
Do you know what I had it sent to me straight away so like it was someone back in Dublin sent it over to me straight away so I remember after the game obviously I spoke with my dad before the game in the hotel and he said to me look next time you call me don't call me when you're at the stadium call me when the game is over because my dad is a superstitious when it comes to stuff like that so I was like okay
6:47
So then I phoned him after the game and he was just like, look, be proud of yourself.
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I'm proud of you and all these different things.
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And I said, wait until you see this goal.
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And he goes, wait until you see Jeff Stellan's reaction.
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So I remember he sent me over the video and we were in the change room and something that not a lot of people knew.
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So obviously Joe Day being the goalkeeper, I was sitting next to Joe Day and I showed him the video.
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And as he's watching, he goes, so who scored the goal?
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Obviously when the mayhem kicked off, he didn't know who scored.
7:11
Yeah, okay.
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So I'm sitting next to him, I goes, Joe, why scored?
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And obviously in another polite way, he
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no you didn't.
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I was like, oh you did?
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And he just grabs me in a big bear hug and everything like that but it was sent to me from someone home in Dublin to see that reaction and it makes it a little bit more sweeter.
7:27
Yeah.
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Did he ever reach out to you?
7:28
Do you know what, I don't think I've, I think I got scratched off his Christmas list at that point for the Christmas card but now look, I haven't bumped into him or anything since.
7:35
I think he was doing a cycle ride for prostate cancer a couple of years back and they stopped off at Rodney Parade so
7:41
I remember somebody asking my question then and my name got brought up.
7:43
But again, like you say, it's just one of those football moments.
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There's so many that you see up and down the country or in different leagues that we just had one of those football moments and gladly it went in our favour.
7:56
Something that I've seen is another goal of yours that was absolutely incredible.
8:00
This goal tends to get talked about a lot, but you've had a few good ones.
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Do you know what?
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This one alone, when I scored against Oldham,
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it was Jamil Matt, I remember, chested it down at the edge of the box and all I heard was, he shouted at me, shoo.
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So I remember, I hit it on the half volley and it went in bottom corner and that alone, that was the goal where we were, it was our game in hand against Oldham.
8:24
And if we win that game, we got into seventh spot, which meant we got into the playoffs.
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So I remember like when I scored in that game and then,
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it was ironic that you have the fans chanting, he only scores in the big games types of things.
8:34
And as you say, you get branded with that type of thing.
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But yeah, some goals that I actually have scored, well, the two that stick out for me are those two where I sit there and think, if I got a few more chances, maybe I could have scored some more, but they were significant for what they were meant.
8:49
And which one do you think was your best one?
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The Great Escape, I think, will always be my best one.
8:53
Like a chest and volley will always be.
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But that strike alone, I think at the edge of a box on a half-volley is something where I looked at and thought,
9:00
Do you know what?
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That's actually not half bad, especially when I watch it back and you see all the olden players that are diving in front of it and it goes into the bottom corner.
9:06
Now, I claim two goals in that game because we won 2-0, but the second goal was Robbie Wilmot took a shot.
9:12
It deflected off my elbow and went in and Sky Sports gave it to me.
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So I claim to have two goals in that game, but I can't really look back and go, wait until you see the second goal, because it doesn't even look like it's touched me.
9:22
From one big moment to another, obviously, we look at the great escape.
9:25
I think it was two years later, the playoff final.
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89th minute.
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What happened?
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Yeah, so that playoff final, I think, was something where it wasn't to say that we bit off more than we can chew.
9:40
We were riding the wave of that whole season because we just played Manchester City in the fifth round of an FA Cup.
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We beat Leicester.
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We beat Middlesbrough.
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We beat Leeds United.
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All of these things that was kind of like, yeah, we were on a great run.
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And then to sneak into the playoffs on the last day of the season where we drew with Morecambe away in the 85th minute, that got us into the playoffs.
10:01
And then to get through to the playoffs, we played against Mansfield, who just dropped out of the automatic position.
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So they were almost high-flying all season.
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So to beat them at their ground on penalties to go through to Wembley, like everything was just kind of like, this could be our year.
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Like everything is falling in our favor.
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So when we were playing Trammer, it was two evenly matched teams.
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Like I don't think there was anything to tell us apart that season where we beat them 1-0 away.
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We drew 0-0 at home.
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And it was almost kind of like on the day, it's two evenly matched teams.
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Whoever wants it will win it.
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And I remember in the second half, I ended up getting a yellow card, which the referee spoke to me and said, the reason you've got it is because there's been too many fouls in the game.
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You're just falling short for your one.
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So you take it for what it is.
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But then the second one was James Norwood was a clever striker.
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Now we had our battles all season and I just feel as though we got one up on me where I was on the halfway line and he spun around me and you put your arm out to try and stop him from running past you.
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But as I then begin to turn,
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He's like locked my arm underneath him.
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And as I turn, he kicks his legs back.
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He goes down.
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I fall over him.
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And when you do watch your back, look, it looks like, right, I've pulled him down.
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But both of us now, because I remember there's a picture of me.
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I'm kneeling and I'm looking up at him and he's looking down at me.
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And I always just remember his words going, I've done you.
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You're off.
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And that to me was almost thinking, well, if I am off, it really made me want to stand up and go, give the referee a reason to send me off here because I felt hard done by, but it was, I look back and say it was silly by me.
11:34
Like I was, I was in the wrong position.
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It was something that, yeah, it was something that I should have done better in that situation.
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I gave him the opportunity to kind of lock me in and make it look like a foul.
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So.
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To be sent off at Wembley was a very, very tough moment because I watched the rest of the game in the tunnel.
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And then when they scored in the 118th minute, I remember I walked straight into the physio room at Wembley.
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I put a towel over my head and I just started crying.
12:00
I just couldn't look at any of my teammates in the eyes.
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Being the captain of it at the time, I just felt as though I'd let everybody down.
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And it was something that...
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I never liked to think that I was letting people down when I played because I always liked to play wholeheartedly and hurt them on my sleeve type player.
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So to feel as though this is my fault, we're not getting promoted because of me, it broke me.
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And I got to see my dad after the game and I started to cry with him.
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And my old manager from when I grew up, he flew over to watch.
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And for my dad to stand there and go, you should be very proud of yourself.
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Not many people get to play at Wembley.
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Look what you've achieved with everything that's happened in your life and all of those things.
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And I look back at it now and I say that I am proud that I got to play at Wembley.
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But in that moment, I just felt as though I wanted the world to swallow me up because I felt I've just let a lot of people down.
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It is an incredible moment playing at Wembley.
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Not many people can even say it.
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What was the team like?
12:58
Do you know what?
13:00
The team after that game...
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we didn't really speak much.
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Everybody was deflated in the changing room.
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And I remember sitting there almost awkwardly thinking, how do I even speak to these?
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These probably all hate me.
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It's all that self-thinking and you're overthinking the situation, thinking everybody probably hates me right now.
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And probably some did at that moment to think, oh, if he didn't get sent off.
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But the team that we actually had,
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so many people like arm around the shoulder saying, look, keep your head up.
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Look, we'll go again.
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It wasn't your fault.
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Look, you've had an amazing season.
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And there was a lot of people supportive of it.
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And that to me showed the group that we had.
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Now, look, there was banter thrown at me.
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There was like, we'd be in league one now if it wasn't for you.
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And all of those things, which you kind of accept.
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And it makes it a bit more lighthearted.
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But the group that we had, like, I think we had a team of men.
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So they were able to understand situations and,
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we were all supportive of each other.
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And I think I did get a lot of support off the lads, like I say, as well as Banta, because everybody got that fair share.
14:03
But the lads coming back on the bus and everybody, it was almost as in to say, look, I dust ourselves down.
14:09
It was a terrible day.
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We lost all of that Wembley.
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Let's have a couple of drinks.
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Let's drown the sorrows type of thing.
14:15
And then we go again.
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And that was the group that we had.
14:18
And I would say as someone from Newport,
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that season was the biggest overachieving season I've ever witnessed in my life.
14:25
Is that something that the team were incredibly proud of despite the devastation?
14:29
Yeah, I look at it and I genuinely do think when you look at the season in a whole, we were a massively overachieving team.
14:36
We were known as the joint killers.
14:38
Now, we were just a team of, I used to say we were a team of misfits.
14:42
We were a team of people that were just put together through different struggles they've had in their career.
14:47
Like some lads coming back from ACL injuries, someone coming back from a knee operation, myself that wasn't playing at Luton for 10 to 11 months.
14:54
We were getting players like Padraig Almond, who was relegated at Hartley Pill, but comes in and does what he does.
14:59
Jamil Ma signing from Grimsby.
15:01
Like we were a team that just came together and Flynnie harnessed the character that was in that changing room.
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Wayne Hatswell was like the tactician behind everything and kind of the rough and tough of we're going to be difficult to be.
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And we all just came together as kind of a unity type thing.
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And we were like a really big family.
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And that in itself was like no other.
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And I do, I genuinely do think everything that we achieved was,
15:31
we knew we overachieved.
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We knew we were a team that, like, had one of the lowest budgets, that we don't have the best of facilities, that we didn't have the best of grounds, but this is what we've got.
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Like, how people remember what Rodney Parade was.
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But, like, we knew it was almost like, we're riding this wave.
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Like, everything's going great.
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We were just a typical...
15:50
League 2 side that were full of men, hard workers, tough to be, horrible to play against.
15:56
We had some really good players in there in Josh Sheehan, Josh Labadee, Matty Dolan, Scott Bennett.
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Like Regan Poole when he came down from Manchester United.
16:04
Like we had like a lot of unbelievable talent.
16:07
So we weren't the team that were just rough and ready.
16:08
We actually could play really decent football.
16:12
So I look at it and say like we knew...
16:15
we were overachieving.
16:16
And maybe I look at it and say, Wembley probably was one step too far.
16:19
But everything that we'd done that season was a season to be proud of.
16:22
And you mentioned Wembley.
16:24
Obviously, that wasn't just the biggest stage that season.
16:27
You played against Man City.
16:29
You captain the team out, walk the team out.
16:31
Let me just read out the names of this team, right?
16:34
So we start with Edison in goal, Danilo at right back, Stones, Otamendi, Zinchenko, Fernandinho, David Silva, Phil Foden, Riyad Mahrez, Leroy Sane, and Gabriel Jesus.
16:47
They didn't take it lightly.
16:48
No, like they didn't take it lightly at all.
16:52
I think because of the reputation we built for ourselves, I think...
16:56
they couldn't take it lightly.
16:57
Because if they did come down with a lesser team, I think it would have been a very difficult night.
17:02
And even to say that, it was still a difficult night for them.
17:05
And they had a bench of Kyle Walker, Raheem Sterling, Kevin De Bruyne, Gundogan, and people like that.
17:11
So I look at it and say, that's the biggest sign of respect any opposition can get.
17:17
And when we've seen that...
17:19
and we've seen that they've gone near enough full strength, we kind of took that as to be proud of.
17:26
Now, don't get me wrong.
17:27
When we were walking out and I'm standing in the captain's room and David Silva walks in, you're almost in any other scenario.
17:33
You're getting a selfie with this bloke who's just won a World Cup in the European Championship, but I'm standing there thinking, we're playing against you now.
17:39
And then you're standing in the tunnel and you see them all walking out and...
17:42
there was a minute silence or a minute applause before the game.
17:44
And I remember standing there and I lifted my head and you just see those players standing in front of you thinking, there's no turning back now.
17:51
Like you have to, but once the whistle goes, the group that we were and how we created Rodney Parade to be that fortress that we created it as, it was almost like...
18:00
We didn't care who came to our stadium.
18:01
We had that little bit of a belief to go, we could do something.
18:05
And I think we were the fifth team in Europe that season to keep Man City to a nil-nil for 50 minutes.
18:11
Now, I remember I asked Wayne Hatswell not long ago about...
18:16
what did you think when you were 0-0 with Man City at halftime?
18:19
I said, did you expect that?
18:20
And he said he always remembers walking down the touchline with Michael Flynn and turning to him and saying, well, what do we do now?
18:25
We're 0-0 with Manchester City, because I don't think anybody expected it.
18:29
The week before, they just beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge 5-0.
18:33
So for us to be 0-0 with them after 45 minutes, you look at it a little bit and say, this shouldn't be happening.
18:38
But it was just a group that we had.
18:40
And I always even remember when we went 2-0 down,
18:43
we still kept going.
18:43
Padraic Ammon scored to go 2-1 in the 18th minute.
18:46
But we, as players, never celebrated it.
18:48
So the stadium is going in and uproar and everybody is so happy we've just scored against Manchester City.
18:53
But we ran into the net, we picked the ball, we put it back down as in to say, we've got a chance.
18:58
Like that was just the group that we had.
18:59
And as I said, it was to be able to be captain of a team that I always think is a team of captains.
19:05
Like it was an honour of mine to do that.
19:07
Was there a player on that team sheet that you were like, I can't wait to play against him?
19:12
Do you know what?
19:13
When he wrote up the team for what it was, you could name anybody in that starting XI and you were kind of mesmerized by them.
19:21
But I think when I looked at it and seen Gabriel Jesus or you see David Silva, John Stones even at that,
19:28
you almost look and just think, I can't wait to see what these players are like.
19:32
Like, even on TV, Fernandinho looks tall, looks big, looks strong because he dominates the Premier League.
19:38
Stand next to him, he's not even that big.
19:40
But the difference of that whole team, like David Silva is just somebody that, even though he's a midfielder, you just can't get near him.
19:51
Like, I remember, I think it was 15 minutes into the game and,
19:54
Peppers shouting over to his players, like, to calm down, pass the ball, but outpitched, obviously what it was.
19:59
They're the only team that made outpitch look like a carpet, how comfortable they were on the ball.
20:03
But I remember Danilo kicked the ball about 60 feet into the air, and David Silva's watching it coming out of the sky.
20:09
Scott Bennegaard's depressing from behind and thinks, I'll win this.
20:13
He blocks Scott Bennett, takes a touch, turns on the all-in-the-one movement and starts running around back line.
20:18
And you're almost looking at it going, how have you just done that?
20:21
Like, when you talk about like that, there's levels from Premier League to League 2.
20:25
Nine times out of ten, it's fitness levels when you see the FA Cups.
20:29
And if they go out and get dragged on, the lower league team normally hit the ground running and the atmosphere and the adrenaline takes them over the line a little bit.
20:35
But then the longer a game goes, they exhaust themselves and the Premier League team just pick them off.
20:40
But with the likes of Man City, that's world class.
20:43
Gabriel Jesus, Sané, that's all world class.
20:46
Mahrez was unbelievable.
20:48
I've never seen somebody can just chop a ball so quick.
20:52
But again, like I say, anybody in that 11, and even Bernardo Silva was on the bench.
20:56
That was the short that I ended up getting, and De Bruyne.
21:00
If they were struggling, you bring on De Bruyne, Raheem Sterling, and Bernardo Silva if you wanted.
21:05
That's different levels, but...
21:07
to be able to put yourself up against that, like when you've played in League 2, is almost kind of like, yeah, you can see that these are different levels because we can all sit at home and when you watch the TV and go, he's rubbish, he's this, what is he playing with so-and-so?
21:21
Like, when you're actually up against them, you kind of go...
21:24
there are levels to this game, like, their high intensity, is just, on a different level, like, I remember going in a half time, and I felt as though I played, 90 minutes in 45, because their movements, are just sprint, sprint, sprint, there's none of this, like I say, League 2 is kind of like, gradual, or it's like, one paced, and then you might have a quick run, or not, but it's kind of all, one paced, they're kind of like, not to 60, and it's just like there, and he's over there, and then,
21:47
If you're not switched on, you have the quality to pick someone up.
21:50
So you have to follow every last run.
21:52
And when you're doing that, you don't have to do it too much in League 2.
21:55
But when you're playing against players like that, if you think you won't reach that, nine times out of ten in the Premier League, they do.
22:01
So you have to be switched on constantly.
22:03
So like you said, that game alone was kind of like you realise what the step up actually is.
22:08
But it was unbelievable to be a part of.
22:10
And you're an United fan, right?
22:12
Yeah.
22:12
So did that make you want to beat them anymore?
22:14
I'd say it did.
22:16
Because obviously, as you say, the rivalry with City and Man U, you obviously want to get one over on them and different things.
22:22
But when you're playing against a team like that, once the whistle goes, look, it didn't enter my head to say, I'm a Man U fan.
22:28
I'm going to make sure I'm going to go through Jesus or Ben Davidsilver.
22:33
I'm not going to do that for the season.
22:35
But again, like you say, it still would have been nice just to say, well, we beat Manchester City.
22:40
That's one for the United fans type of thing.
22:42
But it didn't happen.
22:43
We've obviously spoken about a lot of your biggest moments there.
22:46
Let's go back to where it all started.
22:47
You leave Dublin at 15 years old to join Derby County.
22:52
What did that feel like?
22:54
It was unbelievable.
22:56
Like everything that was happening for me growing up where I got to play for my local side, then I got to play for my county side in tournaments and got to captain that.
23:06
I got to play for my young international side.
23:08
I got Ireland on my 16 player of the year.
23:10
And then I signed for Derby County.
23:11
Like everything was just kind of like in this world window.
23:13
Everything was just getting better and better and better.
23:15
And.
23:16
I flew over when I was 15 and I wasn't able to fully register until I turned 16.
23:22
So I trained with the under 18s, but every weekend I'd play with the under 16s.
23:26
So like I was always like playing above.
23:29
And when I got to November, they got to register me as a school boy slash academy player because I turned 16.
23:36
And then from that November...
23:38
I started to play for the under-18s.
23:40
And then when I started to play for the under-18s, Nigel Clough came in as manager.
23:44
Then I got one or two chances at the reserves.
23:46
Did okay for the reserves.
23:48
And then it got to the final week of that season and Nigel Clough asked me and said, how do you fancy a game next week?
23:55
It was almost like something as simple as that.
23:57
And I was like, yeah.
23:57
And he goes, right, well, I'm playing Watford away next week.
24:00
You're going to play.
24:01
That's how it happened.
24:02
So that was the conversation he had with me the week before.
24:05
But I remember on that Saturday, my family, my mom and dad flew over for the youth team game we were playing.
24:12
And it was the youth team's last game of the season.
24:14
And it was the first team's second last game of the season.
24:18
So when my family flew over, I was meant to go back to Dublin a week later.
24:22
So I remember we went to the Derby game after the U team game.
24:29
And then after that game, my dad came over to me and goes...
24:33
Mark, I'll see you next week.
24:34
And I was like, well, I'm home next week.
24:35
I said, our season's finished.
24:36
And he goes, no, no, I'll see you next week.
24:39
I was like, no, why?
24:40
He was like, as me dad says, I was speaking to me mate Nigel up on the hill when the old game was going on.
24:46
I was like, right.
24:46
And he said, you're in the squad next week.
24:48
And I was just like, kind of, no, I'm not.
24:50
Like, you're winding me up here.
24:52
And then when the Monday came, I'm in the youth team changing room, putting on my boots.
24:56
And then it was Andy Garner walked in and said, OB, you're with us today.
25:01
And in that moment, it's like your stomach drops and you feel like I'm with the first team.
25:05
So I went down and trained and it must have been pure adrenaline because everything was great.
25:10
And I enjoyed the training session.
25:11
And afterwards, then you have the likes of Robbie Savage and everybody coming over to you in the canteen, sitting there with you and just being like, if there was a man of the match for our training today, you would have had it.
25:20
You were unbelievable.
25:21
That was Robbie Savage.
25:22
Yeah, and I was only 16.
25:24
So you feel as though you're almost slightly embarrassed about it because then you're sitting with your under-18s and they're kind of like, oh, look, a big time over here now training with the Force team.
25:32
So when you're that age, you feel embarrassed doing well because you don't want to feel as though, I'm not being big-headed.
25:38
So then all week I trained with the Force team and then it was then, Nyser Clough says, how do you fancy a game this week?
25:42
We'll play Wofford away on Saturday.
25:43
Do you fancy coming?
25:44
And I was like, yeah.
25:45
He was like, right, well then we're travelling on Saturday.
25:48
So then we were travelling down to Wofford away on the Saturday morning.
25:52
And with that, I remember I walked into the changing room and he was like, right, you're on the bench today.
25:57
So then I'm sitting on the bench and we were 3-0 down at halftime.
26:01
And then with that, we come back out for the second half and I'm sitting on the bench.
26:04
And one of the lads I was sitting next to, Mark Dudley, he was a first year pro or a second year pro.
26:10
He was still only young himself.
26:11
I think he was 19.
26:13
And he was sitting there and he looked over Andy Garner's shoulder and was like, I'll be you going on after 60 minutes.
26:17
And I was like, no, I'm not.
26:19
He was like, yeah.
26:19
And obviously on the clock, it was like 57, 58 minutes.
26:22
And I just get warm.
26:25
And I was thinking, how do I get warm?
26:27
Like, again, like I'm still 16.
26:29
So like I'm jogging up and down the sideline.
26:30
And this was a kit that's like baggy on you and everything.
26:32
I'm jogging up and down the sideline.
26:34
Like I threw in the old token gesture, hamstring stretch.
26:38
And then I just get called, OB, come on, you're going on.
26:41
So then I go down and I remember, had the short on, Lil Nye Tango was getting taken off.
26:45
Yeah.
26:46
And Nigel Clough just put his arm around my shoulder and said, kick it, head it, be a defender.
26:51
All the best.
26:52
That was it.
26:52
Wow.
26:53
So I came on and I was centre-back next to Rob Holtz.
26:55
Yeah.
26:56
Yeah.
26:56
And for the next 30 minutes, I always used to say I'd love to watch it back because I've never seen it back.
27:02
I've seen the odd clip of it, but I've never seen it back fully where I'd love to see that moment again.
27:06
Because any header that came me way, I was literally just playing like I was in the U team.
27:11
And I think that's why football was like that alter ego for me.
27:14
When I was on a field, I didn't care who I was with.
27:16
But I'd win a header, Robbie Savage over, well done OB, win a tackle, OB, unbelievable.
27:21
Yeah.
27:21
Like there's a clip where I've cleared it off the line and the first person over his arm around my shoulder is Robbie Savage.
27:26
And that was the person he was.
27:28
Now don't get me wrong, loves his banter, loves really ripping into people.
27:32
But at the same time, like when, when it was needed to be a captain and to be that person, he was unbelievable for me.
27:38
Like he made me feel like I was part of that team.
27:40
He made me feel like I was 10 foot tall because I'm almost thinking last summer when I'm back in Dublin, I'm watching this fella on TV.
27:46
match of the day playing for Derby in the Premier League and now all of a sudden his arm's around my shoulder and I'm in Vicarage Road in front of like 19,000 people like what has just happened and then after the game Robbie Savage puts his arm around and goes where's our family sitting I was like I think that's sitting up there brings me over to wave up to my mum and dad and everything so like he was perfect for me like just as much as look don't get me wrong he ripped into me a lot that season
28:08
But that was just him.
28:09
It was almost like that's his way of seeing what they're all about.
28:13
And I remember we had a training session, and I think it was one of my first training sessions with him.
28:16
He was training with the youth side, and a tackle was there to be made.
28:21
I stand on his foot.
28:23
He goes over and win the ball back and everything, but straight away pick him up, and he was just like, I like that.
28:28
And they're the little things that kind of make you feel as though you're on the right path with examples like that ahead of you.
28:33
I love Robbie Savage as a Welshman.
28:35
He came through the United Academy as well.
28:38
Would you say he was the best captain of your career?
28:42
I'd say he was the perfect example for the beginning of my career to show me what a captain can be.
28:47
He was just someone who was life and soul, banter-wise, but also demanded standards.
28:53
When it came to a game time, it was like the banter switches off and now my game head is on.
28:57
He was able to do both and he was able to mix it up.
29:00
So he was the perfect example for me to kind of show what that side of a captain is.
29:04
And then I've seen other captains at Derby, in Richard Keough or at Jason Shackle and even Sean Barker.
29:11
they led by example, they led with voice, they led with all of that.
29:16
I've played under very, very good captains and you kind of just take a bit from each of them.
29:20
But for Robbie Savage to be the beginning of that, to show you the example of what a club captain is and how you take everything on your shoulders and you take the good with the bad, how you integrate people in and own your own personality.
29:32
But then when it comes to game time, I'll make sure, I'll look after you type of thing.
29:36
And that for me was priceless.
29:39
And I love hearing this because this is a side of Robbie you don't really hear.
29:41
No.
29:42
You always hear about the mischief and, you know, the negative side.
29:45
But it sounds anyone I've ever spoken to about Robbie Savage that actually knew him said he was a great guy.
29:51
Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me.
29:53
As I said, in a training ground, you hear him before you see him.
29:57
If he's in the corridor, you can already hear him laughing or he's joking or he's coming in and he's got a joke for someone or someone's at the topic of banter for him.
30:04
But like I say, when it mattered or when it was game time or where someone needed an arm around the shoulder or...
30:10
me only being 16, like he really made me feel like I was part of it all.
30:16
Like you could get like left to one side and he doesn't really talk to you.
30:20
Like he was brilliant.
30:21
And as I say, for that to be the beginning of my career, to have someone like him,
30:26
that was able to integrate me in.
30:27
And like I say, watching him on match of the day for Derby or when he was at Leicester and Birmingham and different things, like I look at things like that and say, yeah, do you know what?
30:36
Like I'm glad of that upbringing that I had because just as quick as he was bantering me, he was quick to have an arm around my shoulder to tell me, well done.
30:44
And that, like, that to me is like no other.
30:47
And at the same age, 16 years old, you've just had probably the best moment of your life.
30:53
And then you're told you need heart surgery.
30:55
What actually goes through your head in that moment?
30:58
Do you know what?
30:58
That was difficult because when that season finished and I flew home to Dublin,
31:03
Everything was like on cloud nine and everybody's congratulating you, saying it's amazing.
31:07
And now you need to kick on and do really well.
31:09
And then when I came back for preseason, done a couple of preseason runs.
31:14
But in between that, I had, well, you get the routine medical screenings.
31:17
And in my routine medical screening, the doctor walked in, you get your echocardiogram and your ECGs.
31:23
And I remember he walked out, got the physio to come in and they closed the door behind them.
31:28
And he said, Mark, we've picked up an abnormality in your heart.
31:32
And I was like, right.
31:34
He said, well, it looks like you've got a minor leak in your aortic valve.
31:37
But he said, it's only minor.
31:39
He said, some people live with this for their whole life and don't even realize they've got it.
31:42
But it maybe is something we need to keep an eye on.
31:44
But you won't need an operation for another 60 years.
31:46
So to me, I was thinking, well, if that's 60 years, football is going to be long gone by then.
31:51
So I still was training a little bit.
31:54
And then...
31:56
the fitness coach was taking readings of heart rates as everybody's doing preseason running.
32:01
And my heart rate on one of the days, I think the maximum was 227 and the average was 203.
32:08
Now he looked at it and said, you're right.
32:09
I'm working extremely hard considering I was probably finishing in the middle of every run.
32:13
Like I wasn't top of the running and really running hard.
32:16
It was like, it was like a chore, but I wasn't feeling like I was unfit.
32:20
It was just like, I just thought I was working hard, but with,
32:24
That heart rate being that, he said, I wonder if these two is the reason why your heart rate is high.
32:28
So they sent it to a specialist.
32:30
The specialist took the reading and said, right, we need to send you for an MRI just to see your heart functioning, to see how much is leaking back in.
32:38
And then with that, I had the MRI.
32:41
They came out with the results and said, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being it's worse than 1 being nothing, your valve is leaking a 7 or an 8.
32:49
And then with that is when they started to get a little bit more serious.
32:51
So then that was sent off to another specialist.
32:54
The specialist said, Mark, look, it looks like it's progressed a little bit, but you won't need an operation for another 20, 25 years.
32:59
And I thought, well, that's gone down from 60, but 20, 25 years, like I'll be late 40s into my 40s football, I'll be done.
33:07
But he said, just to be on the safe side, we're going to send all of this over to a surgeon just to see what their professional opinion will be.
33:14
So they sent it over to a surgeon.
33:16
And then with that, I got called into the hospital.
33:19
So my mom, my dad and the Derby physio got called into the hospital.
33:23
And we were sitting there in this little small room.
33:27
And the doctor come in and he put his diary on his desk.
33:30
And he turned around and he had a model heart in his hand and said, Mark, look, he said, your heart is three times the size of what it should be for someone of your age.
33:37
And if you don't get this operation done this year, you're going to die.
33:42
So then that for me...
33:45
strangely enough, it didn't feel as though he was talking to me.
33:48
Like I said, I just made my debut the season before.
33:50
But with that, my first question was, can I still play football?
33:56
Again, I've said it so many times, being 16 and naive was probably the best thing that went to my favour because I didn't understand what was just being said to me.
34:04
Like, I'm going to die.
34:06
Like, it just didn't make sense.
34:07
Did you feel like football was going to get taken away?
34:11
I felt as though football was going to get taken away.
34:14
So that's when it kind of hit me probably more because I asked the question to the doctor, can I still play football?
34:20
And his answer was, Mark, you probably won't get a chance to play.
34:22
You'd be lucky to play down the park with your friends.
34:25
Like your professional career is probably done.
34:27
And that's what broke me.
34:28
That's when I was sitting there going, well, I've just made me debut.
34:31
Like I've got a taste for it now.
34:32
Like this is all I want.
34:34
And now you're telling me I can't do it.
34:36
So obviously he told me about the procedures they can do, which is a pigskin valve or a metallic valve.
34:41
different things and I said which is the best opportunity to play football he said if you go pigskin valve he said it can last you a year to a maximum of five years but he said in between that he said it could go at any time he said if it doesn't take to your body he said it's one of these that is kind of like a shot in the dark and if it does take to your body great he said you can have it for a maximum of five but if it doesn't he said he said they had a young girl and it was a gymnast
35:03
And Horvath failed over in 18 months.
35:05
So he said it's a chance.
35:07
But he said that might be the smallest chance to get back playing football.
35:10
But to get back to a professional standard, he said you probably won't get to reach that.
35:13
Because he said the strain and fitness that it takes to get back there, he said it probably won't happen.
35:17
But I said, is that the best one that will give me the chance for it?
35:19
He said, well, you can always try.
35:21
So I went for the pigskin valve and I had that in October of 2009.
35:27
And then by April time or the end of April, that like that same season, I got back playing like seven months later and I was playing in the youth team.
35:37
I got back playing in a reserve game and then I made the first team bench last game of the season.
35:40
I think it was Cardiff at home.
35:42
And that season in itself, with no football being played, was probably the biggest, most significant season for me in a sense of so much has happened.
35:52
And it built a steeliness, if you want to say, inside myself because I thought, if I can get back from this, now that I'm back playing, I can get back playing from anything.
36:00
And funnily enough, my first game back was against Manchester United on the right hand, which is the crazy thing about it that...
36:08
It was on MU TV, so my dad was watching it back at home.
36:12
And my mom always tells me this, that my dad was really nervous because he wanted me to be okay.
36:18
But he wanted to know if I was going to come back the same player.
36:19
If I was going to be any different, he would have been devastated for me.
36:22
And my first game back, and I win that team, was Paul Pogba, Ravel Morrison, Lingard, Larnell Cole, Josh King, John Coffey.
36:32
That was their youth team.
36:33
Yeah.
36:35
So when we played in that game, straight away, I'm blocking balls or I throw myself in front of it.
36:41
And my dad straight away sat there and thought, he's back to himself.
36:45
And that in itself was kind of like the relief for them.
36:48
But then for me, it was like the relief of going, I've got a short back on, this is professional now, I'm back at Derby and I didn't care what level it was.
36:54
So I think, again, I always look at Nigel Clough as the manager he was and maybe to reward me for that season, to put me on the first team bench, whether I was ready or not, but almost as in to say, well done, here you go, here's the bench and it made me feel great that I thought I'm back again.
37:08
And that's all that mattered to me.
37:10
11 years later, at the age of 27, your heart comes back into it.
37:15
What's going through your head at this point?
37:17
So yeah, obviously I got back and played an 11-year career, which again, a heart scan every single season.
37:24
I didn't know I was going to get 11 years.
37:26
But during COVID in 2020, when the season came to a halt for that forced time and everything went into lockdown, we were meant to keep fit and go out cycling and walks and jogging and different things.
37:37
And I remember one evening I was sitting at home and out of blue, I just got like a thump in my chest.
37:44
And with that thump,
37:46
my neck starts pulsing.
37:47
I started to like sweat.
37:49
My hands were like getting real sweaty and I started to feel like real faint.
37:53
And I didn't know what that feeling was because again, I never had any symptom when I was a kid.
37:58
So I didn't know what this thing was.
38:00
I just thought, well, I need to go lay down.
38:03
So I remember...
38:05
Later on that night, I'm laying on my left-hand side and something here just kept thumping and I kept coughing and I just kept catching my breath and I didn't know what it was.
38:14
So the next day I found the doctor and I was saying it to him.
38:16
I was like, look, something's not right with me.
38:18
I said, like, I keep getting a thump in my chest and my heart keeps, like, almost skipping a beat.
38:22
He was like, oh, it's something called an optopic beat.
38:24
Maybe, like, everybody gets it where your heart can kind of skip.
38:27
So, like, you cough to get it back into rhythm.
38:30
And I was like, right.
38:31
But he said, if it continues, let me know.
38:32
So it continued and I found him again.
38:34
I was like, Doc, I need to get a scan.
38:35
Something's not right.
38:36
Because I felt myself when I was exercising, I was getting more tired.
38:41
When I was doing more exercise, I was feeling more, less fit.
38:45
And I'm thinking to myself, if the season starts next week, the manager's going to think I'm doing nothing.
38:48
Like, I don't feel fit at all.
38:50
And like, I'm trying to exercise every single day.
38:53
And I'm still going on these long cycles and different things.
38:55
Well, this valve is like this, but I didn't know what it was.
38:58
And then the doctor got me a scan because obviously during COVID, the hospitals were packed.
39:02
And when he got me the scan, I remember going into the screening, getting it done, and then sitting in the doctor's office.
39:08
And one part of me was always thinking, I hope you find nothing.
39:12
And the other half was thinking, I hope you find something to explain why I feel so drained and so tired and so fatigued.
39:20
And he came into the office and he sat there and he said, Mark, look, I'm looking at your results now and your valve is leaking.
39:25
And he said, it's leaking quite badly.
39:28
And straight away, I dropped my head to the floor and I started to cry because I always made the promise to myself when I was 16 to say, I'm going to have one.
39:38
operation for my life and I'm gonna have I'm gonna have one operation for my football and one operation for my life and that to me there and then I knew football's over so in that moment I like I didn't care about anything other than the fact of saying even though I needed open heart surgery football being over like just made me burst into tears and the doctor was like what Mark does procedures you can do to keep playing I said you don't understand I said I've had this before I said I'm not going through this three or four times just to have a football career I said
40:08
and so then later on that night, obviously I found my mom, she flies over from Dublin, and from that moment, like everything just felt numb, and I felt as though I was really getting a lot worse, day after day, week after week, like I was getting more tired, I wasn't eating as much, I was feeling like more weaker, I was getting pale, like everything, like I looked ill, not just as much as I felt that I was having panic attacks, and everything from that moment, like again, even when I spoke about,
40:38
releasing the fact of that I've retired I remember I had to phone Michael Flynn and I was like I've got news for you and he was like what's going on I was like I need to retire and he goes nah you're joking and I was like no I need to retire 27 years old as well and he he had to hang the phone up because he did tell me that he ended up shedding a tear himself because again it wasn't just the fact that he was my manager we got on really well as as as mates as well and
41:04
Like I said, when I released, I didn't think much of it because you think, well, I've only played in League 2 and yes, I had a couple of games, a couple of seasons in the Championship and you don't think that people pay attention to a career unless you go to the Premier League, unless you play in the World Cup and nobody's going to remember me.
41:19
And when I released and you see breaking news, Newport County defender now has just retired due to a heart issue, ITV, BBC, every news people back in Ireland, like all of a sudden I was thinking...
41:32
actually, do you know what?
41:34
It almost made me feel a little bit proud to kind of say, I actually did okay.
41:38
Because as much as when you're a footballer, footballers are probably the harshest critics on themselves, where you'll sit there and you'll not appreciate the career you've had because you've always wanted more.
41:47
Unless I'm playing for Man United in the Premier League, I haven't made it.
41:50
Unless I win a World Cup, I haven't made it.
41:52
Unless I play in a World Cup, I've not made it.
41:54
And it's almost like, no, no matter what level that you're in, it's like appreciate the fact that you had a career that,
42:01
0.02% or 1% of kids never ever get to do.
42:04
And that is something that kind of made me appreciate it a little bit more.
42:09
But to know that then I had to go in for a second open heart surgery killed me.
42:14
Because I knew every single step that needed to be taken where after the surgery...
42:19
You get the tubes in your stomach.
42:21
So I was already thinking, I don't want to go through this again because you're literally starting from scratch.
42:24
But I remember the night before the operation, they thought I had an infection.
42:28
So I was getting all these screenings done.
42:30
And I remember my heart rate was up really high.
42:33
They had to move me onto the main ward.
42:36
And I had all the big screens around me.
42:37
And the doctor came in.
42:39
He said, Mark, look, your operation is tomorrow.
42:42
But he said, if you've got an infection, we can't operate on you until the infection goes.
42:45
He said, but the reason we've moved you on to the main ward is the fact of if your valve breaks off in the middle of the night and circulates your body, he said, you're dead.
42:55
He said, so you're on real critical watch at the moment.
42:58
He said that two weeks ago we had a patient in that that happened to.
43:01
He said, so we've moved you here so we can keep it closer on you.
43:04
And I hope it doesn't.
43:05
But the next 24 hours are really massive for yourself.
43:07
And I remember only like obviously a year or two later, I spoke to my mom about it.
43:12
She said like the hospital phone, I'm saying, look, we need you to come off to the hospital because it's not looking good for your son.
43:17
And.
43:18
Those moments was when I'm on one behalf, I was terrified of having open heart surgery.
43:23
But then when you get told you have less than 24 hours of living, it was probably it changed my perspective on everything to say.
43:28
I can't wait to have this.
43:30
I need to have this.
43:31
This is going to save my life.
43:33
And then the next morning when he told me I can have the operation, like I've never felt happiness like and I burst into tears again.
43:38
Went down, had open heart surgery, it took seven hours.
43:41
And the doctor said to me.
43:43
the state my heart was in, he was surprised I'm still alive.
43:46
He said like, everything should have gone against me.
43:48
And again, like it goes back to where my mom always said, there's always someone looking down on you.
43:52
You've been looked after.
43:53
And again, the whole storm that it was to do with the open heart surgery during COVID, no family allowed in the hospital.
44:02
Like I, I spent probably six weeks in hospital and they thought I had another infection, which I had inflammation around an aortic root that they replaced.
44:13
But the gap that it replaced filled with swelling and I was getting more of those dizzy spells and palpitations and I was getting like my heart rate through the roof.
44:20
They thought he might have COVID.
44:22
So I didn't get let go and had to wait on all that to clear up.
44:26
But in the moment of all that, a doctor telling me, Mark, we might have to open you back up again.
44:30
And that's where like moments like that were breaking me because I thought if you open me back up, I'm not going to survive it again.
44:37
And I was already like, I was saying this, that anything you can do other than needing to open me back up.
44:42
And they were like, well, Mark, if it doesn't go away, we might have to open you up to see what's going on.
44:47
So these were all doctors that were saying this.
44:49
And I used to get really frustrated.
44:51
I said, you as doctors are telling me this, but then you live of an evening, you go home to your families or wherever you go.
44:57
I said, I'm still stuck in this bed.
44:59
I said, and not one of you has told me I'm going to be okay.
45:02
You have just told me all the news that's happened, but not one person has said, Mark, you're going to be okay.
45:06
And then the surgeon came in and the surgeon spoke to me and said, Mark, look, open you back up would be the last resort if something isn't happening.
45:14
He said, that's last of last resort.
45:15
He said, that's not even a possibility.
45:17
He said, we just need to get you on some anti-inflammatories, blah, blah, and we'll get you on.
45:20
And I ended up doing that.
45:22
I got myself out.
45:23
But from that moment of obviously being over-hospitalized, I wasn't the same me coming out to where I went in.
45:31
I went in and I weighed 83 kilos.
45:33
And by the time I came out, I was weighing 69 kilos.
45:36
I was a shell of myself confidence-wise.
45:38
I had no belief in myself.
45:40
I was depressed.
45:41
And yet, I still haven't dealt with retiring from football.
45:44
I still haven't dealt with the fitness that needs to get back from opening up.
45:47
Like, I had everything on me play.
45:49
And to be honest, that's where every last struggle.
45:53
So, as much as...
45:55
I was always that kind of fight back from everything through my career was open-arts injury got back from that.
46:00
ACL injury got back from that.
46:02
Manager doesn't like me, I'll find my own club.
46:04
And everything was always on that path.
46:05
And I used to always think of the, but what if, what if I do?
46:08
Like the positive side of stuff, this time I...
46:11
genuinely could not see how my life was ever going to change I thought this is me stuck for the rest of my life I'm depressed I had panic attacks I didn't want to sleep because I was too afraid I was never going to wake up like I had so many bad moments after my operation that I understand everything now and I
46:36
For that to happen and then still not have football.
46:38
Football, I started to realise, was a massive distraction for me.
46:41
Football was something that took my mind off everything.
46:44
And now I don't have that.
46:45
I'm like, well, why do I need to get fit?
46:47
Why do I have to get out of bed?
46:48
It's almost like an extended off-season.
46:52
Well, I don't have to go to bed early.
46:54
I don't have to get up.
46:55
I don't have to go to a gym.
46:56
I don't have to go out walking.
46:57
I don't have to eat the right stuff.
46:59
Like, I can do as I please now.
47:01
And I'm like, right, this is for the rest of my life now.
47:03
And you just get bad habits and bad routines.
47:05
And like I say, that period of my life was probably one that I say now I'm grateful for.
47:13
But back then...
47:14
I would have said like my life was probably at the rock bottom that it needed to hit to kind of be where I'm at now.
47:21
And thanks for opening up with that because that's a tough story to obviously tell.
47:25
What would you tell 27-year-old Mark now in the position you're in?
47:30
In the position that I'm in, the only thing I would say is everything's going to be okay.
47:34
Like the stuff that I never got old when I was in the operating or when I was in the hospital, everything is going to be okay.
47:40
Like you don't have to have it all figured out.
47:43
Even at 27, you don't have anything figured out.
47:45
Even at the age that I'm at now, I have nothing figured out.
47:48
But it'll all be okay.
47:49
And I think that was something where I lost all trust in myself and my body because I felt as though my body's let me down.
47:59
And with counseling that I had to do, CBT that I had to do and trying to do journaling and all of the things that everybody speaks of.
48:09
And they worked to an extent, but not everything kind of matched.
48:14
Like I was always in the mind frame of, well, you've never retired from football.
48:17
How do you know how I feel?
48:19
Now, there's not many people that could fit that bracket.
48:21
So I was narrowing down the bracket.
48:22
But if I talk about depression, everybody can talk about that.
48:25
Everybody can talk about anxiety.
48:27
But if I say to you, you don't know how I feel, you didn't have open heart surgery.
48:30
I'm closing myself off again because not many people do.
48:33
So you talk about the feeling behind that.
48:35
And when I started to speak about that, like I struggled always talking about myself.
48:40
And it was when I had to speak about myself is when I would break into tears.
48:43
And I'd be crying in front of people all the time.
48:45
I'd be having panic attacks in a training ground in front of people.
48:48
And slowly started to realize the more I'd take my mask off of people to see the struggle that I was going through, the better I was feeling.
48:56
Mm-hmm.
48:57
because I didn't have to hide anything.
48:58
I didn't have to be something.
48:59
I'm not.
48:59
I could literally just say, are you having a good day?
49:01
No.
49:02
Are you struggling?
49:03
Yeah.
49:03
Do you need to cry?
49:04
Cry.
49:05
Like, it was almost like, if you feel it, go through it.
49:08
And then to be able to do that, the panics almost start to subside a little bit.
49:13
Depression starts to almost lift a little bit.
49:16
and obviously I had plenty of support.
49:19
I wouldn't have been able to do it if I didn't have the support that I had, but I always still, till this day, will look back, and even to now, will say that I'll always be proud of myself, because as much as you can have support around you and great people around you, which I did, I still have to take the steps.
49:33
I still have to go through it.
49:34
I still have to take it on board.
49:36
I still have to make those little movements and take those steps into account, and take steps and take things on board, or else I can be the one that...
49:44
don't take it on and I'm still in the same position because I've realised that life will always keep moving.
49:49
And is this what led you into a player care role at Newport?
49:53
Yeah, I'd say that and also that captaincy role, that kind of leader role in a sense of I always enjoyed helping people.
50:02
Even when I played, I always enjoyed helping people.
50:05
And again, I remember I got sent something when Ben White signed for Arsenal
50:10
there was an article he'd done for Arsenal talking about his time.
50:14
One of his best long moves was Newport County.
50:16
And he got introduced into men's football and he was in a men's changing room.
50:20
But he mentions me saying, but I came in to take his position.
50:23
And one thing that stood out for me was he helped me every step of the way.
50:25
He wanted to see the best of me.
50:26
He wanted to help me in my position.
50:28
And I was there to take his position.
50:31
And he said that stuck out for him a lot.
50:33
And that, to me, matters more than just thinking, well, he's playing ahead of me.
50:37
I hope he gets injured.
50:38
Or I hope this, like all of this...
50:39
kind of selfishness, because football is the most selfish team sport you'll ever play in.
50:44
But if you do it with the right intention of almost saying, well, if you're playing ahead of me, I'm going to want you to do well, for the team to do well, but always know that I'm going to keep pushing you, but in the right way.
50:53
Not wishing bad upon you, but I'm going to do it in the right way, where if I'm playing really well, you better play well, because I know I'm next in.
50:58
And that was the way that I liked to be.
51:00
So now...
51:01
When I went into that type of player care role a few years back, I like seeing players do really well, but on a personal level.
51:09
I like to sit there with them and kind of go, what's going on?
51:11
At least you have someone to kind of bounce ideas off or what you might feel.
51:15
Or you don't want to say this to a manager because a manager might look at it in a different light to what I will.
51:20
But that to me matters so much more.
51:22
It's almost like man management, as they call it.
51:24
You don't get a lot of man management now.
51:26
Some people do and some people don't.
51:27
But if I can be that little bit of an arm around the shoulder for someone, as much as fire a rocket at someone if they need it and tell them home truths if they need it,
51:37
Well, I'd be that person for anybody.
51:38
And that doesn't matter about whether you're at Newport or one of my friends.
51:41
But to find that role came from the backing of, I know what it's like to struggle and I know how it can affect you.
51:47
So I don't want to see you struggle.
51:49
Sometimes we forget that there's actually a person behind the footballer.
51:53
And, you know, social media shows a lot of that.
51:55
Some of the comments people gave, actually forgetting the impact that these comments can have.
52:00
We've obviously spoken about Mark O'Brien, the person.
52:03
Now I want to bring out the Man United fan.
52:05
Why United?
52:08
I grew up supporting them because my dad is a massive Man U fan.
52:11
Now he's going back years and years into Man U because there was a lot of Irish players that used to play in the Man U set-up.
52:19
So it was just true that my older brother, who's two years older than me, was a Man U supporter because of my dad.
52:25
So all three of us were massive Man U supporters growing up.
52:28
And as you say...
52:30
The likes of Roy Keane and my dad always telling me the likes of Paul McGrann.
52:34
I'd never seen him play, but I got to watch YouTube clips of him or I got to read his book.
52:38
And my dad used to always say, Mark, if you want to be a centre-back, you need to watch this man play.
52:42
Because, do you know what?
52:43
He said he never really covered the ground that much.
52:45
His kit was always clean because he could read the game.
52:48
He said he was always three steps ahead of where he needed to be.
52:50
And he said, somebody like that.
52:52
He said he didn't have to be an overtalker.
52:54
He said, but he could get a man of the match.
52:55
And he said he'd go out with the cleanest kit and come back with the cleanest kit.
52:58
Because he said he was always just steps ahead of people.
53:01
Roy Cain alone, the leader that he is, and look, everybody sees him for the personality that he is now.
53:07
But his mentality is one of the strongest mentalities, I think, any single person can pick up on and even take an ounce of it to show what a winning mentality is.
53:16
Like, he's just like no other.
53:18
And I just think the Irish connection that Man U has is something that...
53:23
made it easier to support Man U and obviously everything that was going on at that time.
53:28
So you mentioned Roy Keane and Paul McGrath.
53:30
Were they your two favorite Irish players?
53:33
I'd say they were.
53:34
Like, I think when I did watch clips on Paul McGrath of him as a center back and how dominant he was and his timing of tackles and his position in play and how he read the game.
53:44
I think that for me was a massive part of my game.
53:47
And I think Roy Keane for the tough tackling, the mentality that he was for winning and
53:54
As you say, he's your out-and-out leader.
53:58
That type of person.
53:59
Obviously, I wanted to be that within myself as well.
54:01
So they would always stand out for me as two massive players that I really looked up to.
54:07
If I could give Mark O'Brien one game in a United shirt, who would his centre-back partner be?
54:15
My centre-back partner, I think, for who I grew up watching...
54:20
when he signed for Manchester United, was Nemanja Vidic.
54:24
Nemanja Vidic for me is the perfect example of what I loved as defending.
54:31
His head would be in at someone's knee, Shane, he never cared about breaking his nose if it was to save an online shot.
54:38
His bravery, everything about him, his tackling, how eerily good he was, his timing of headers, and I was someone who loved heading the ball.
54:46
Mm-hmm.
54:48
And to see him play like that in the Premier League, it almost gave like that little bit of hope of going, so there's still that type of standard of player who loves defending and who really wants to defend.
54:59
And for him to be a man you play, like I could watch him every single week and just think, that's who I want to be.
55:04
I want to be an Imania Vidic.
55:06
Like that, that was...
55:08
a no-brainer for me.
55:09
I would say your playing style was literally him.
55:12
Yeah.
55:13
You were Newport's Vidic.
55:14
Yeah.
55:14
Well, I hope people see it that way.
55:17
I certainly do, at least.
55:19
I want to do some Mark O'Brien and Man United trivia now to test your knowledge on your past.
55:24
Yeah.
55:25
Let me just word this right, so I'm going to have to read it.
55:27
So I found seven Man United connections during your playing career.
55:31
Seven players who were registered at the same club that you played for at Man United, academy included.
55:37
Who were the seven?
55:40
Registered at the same club.
55:41
Yes.
55:42
The reason I say that is you were at Derby County.
55:44
So Robbie Savage would be that.
55:45
Yeah.
55:46
But you were loaned out.
55:47
Yeah.
55:48
So then being loaned out at Southport, which Robbie Savage is definitely one.
55:51
Robbie Savage is one.
55:53
Poor.
55:56
This is a tough one.
55:57
Regan Poole.
55:58
Yes.
55:58
If he counts as one.
55:59
Yes.
56:00
I've got Regan Poole.
56:03
John Coffey.
56:03
He was at Southport.
56:06
I don't have him.
56:07
I was at Southport with John Coffey.
56:09
You've got one more than me then.
56:11
Do you know what?
56:12
You've been the host.
56:12
Yeah.
56:13
Okay.
56:15
Oh, my new connection.
56:17
Okay.
56:17
So you've got Robbie Savage, John Coffey, Regan Paul.
56:20
Well, I could say the manager.
56:22
A manager.
56:23
Steve McLeod.
56:24
Shall I give you them?
56:24
Go on.
56:25
Let me hear.
56:25
Okay.
56:25
So we've got Robbie Savage.
56:27
Roy Carroll.
56:28
Derby.
56:30
Michael Keane.
56:32
I remember.
56:33
I played in an under-21s game with him at Derby.
56:36
Yeah.
56:36
Lee Grant.
56:39
Oh, Lee Grant, yes.
56:40
Now you're kicking yourself.
56:41
Yeah, massively.
56:42
Jesse Lingard.
56:43
That's the one I'm talking about.
56:44
Well, Jesse Lingard, yeah, I wasn't at Derby, but I get the whole, yeah, I get it.
56:48
That's why I was very clear on the... Yeah, and then I beat the host again where I needed to get.
56:55
Then we've got Regan Paul and Tyler Reid.
56:57
He was part of the Man United Academy.
56:59
Was he?
57:00
He was.
57:01
Now, I never knew that.
57:02
Yeah, part of the Man United Academy.
57:04
Yeah.
57:05
Ah, now that would have been...
57:07
If I had to get all the other ones and was left... Tyler Reid actually has surprised me there with that one.
57:11
Yeah, yeah.
57:11
So I'm going to wrap this up anyway with three final questions.
57:14
Yeah.
57:15
I'll start with a fun one.
57:16
If the Great Escape goal was scored today, how many followers do you think you would gain on social media?
57:22
If the Great Escape was scored on this day, I think I would get a good couple of thousand followers off the back of that because of how big it went on Sky Sports and...
57:33
everything that and the significance of it, I think I would have gained a massive following because of it.
57:37
And I know it's not to be compared, but you look at Bozzini, the goalkeeper in the World Cup.
57:41
Oh, well, I even say like the Aguero moment or when Robbie Brady scored against Italy in the last kick of a game to get them through out of group stage.
57:48
Like those moments where everybody looks back at that one moment, I'm kind of thinking in this day and age, it would get blown up.
57:54
When the football stopped, what did you discover about yourself as a person?
57:58
I discovered at the time when football stopped that I was a very anxious, hard on myself person.
58:03
And I think over the last couple of years of the stuff that I've worked with, looking at myself and being proud of myself and not to have a high expectation to kind of just let life be what it is and be nicer to myself.
58:15
I think that is one thing that I'm glad I figured out because I used to put the anxiety down to just playing games and high profile games.
58:22
But to realize how hard on myself I was for.
58:24
the minor of things instead of appreciating the actual smaller things along the way.
58:29
I think I'm glad I found that out about myself.
58:31
And finally, if you could leave one piece of advice to the young professionals of the game, what would it be?
58:38
The only bit of advice that I've ever given anybody is the fact of to keep enjoying your football.
58:42
Enjoy it till you can't enjoy it anymore because I think everybody's so quick to turn professional too quickly with their 1v1s and their online stuff.
58:50
Enjoy it.
58:51
Go out and play with your mates on the street.
58:52
Go out and keep kicking the ball with friends.
58:54
Go out and play with your grassroots.
58:56
Every single thing is always about enjoyment.
58:59
Build a love for football with a ball at your feet than what you're seeing on screens because if you're good enough,
59:04
It will come around to you at some stage, but you need to have the love for it to deal with the politics that comes with football because the love will always take you through.
59:10
So I always say to any young players, build the love for the game.
59:14
Mark O'Brien, Newport County legend.
59:16
Thank you very much.