Latest / It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast / Kevin Ramsay: Why Loyalty, Culture, and Growth are the Cornerstones of Great Companies
Transcript
- Sharon 00:16 Welcome to It's Time for Success: The Business Insights podcast. Today's episode is from job to career and why it matters. So today's episode is what I think every business owner and every employee needs to hear. We're diving into a powerful conversation about the difference between having a job and building a career, and there's a big difference. A job is something you do, a career is something you grow into. As business owners, we know how much time, money and energy it takes to find the right people, then train them, mentor them and help them succeed. But culture doesn't build itself. Vision doesn't carry itself forward. It takes people who are brought in, who see your business as a place they can grow with, not just clock in and out, and as employees, especially those starting out, it's easy to see work as just a paycheck, but when you shift your mindset from job to career, everything changes. You take more pride, you gain more purpose, and you start carving out a future that fits who you want to become. Today's guest, Kevin Ramsay shares his honest journey from picking rocks on a prairie farm to building deep, lasting relationships in the auto industry. His perspective on work, loyalty and purpose is something we can all learn from, no matter where you are in your journey. If you're an employer trying to build a culture that lasts, or someone wondering what's next in your work life, this episode will inspire you to dig deeper and think bigger. Let's dive in here. Ready? Kevin? Kevin grew up on a farm near Neilburg, Saskatchewan, where hard work, family values, and community shaped who he is today. He spent over two decades in the auto industry wearing many hats, from mechanic to media manager to top-performing sales consultant. What stands out about Kevin isn't just his career path, it's his outlook on life, work and relationships. He's someone who leads with heart, stays grounded in his roots, and has built a reputation for integrity, connection and resilience. Whether you're in business or navigating career changes, or just trying to figure out your next move, there's a lot to learn from Kevin's story today. Kevin, you have a bit of a commitment to our listeners right off the get go here. Why do employees stay? How do they grow and how do they thrive in their new roles? So Kevin, why is this so valuable for both employers and employees? Kevin 02:37 I always say the only sustainable competitive advantage that you have are your people. Sharon 02:44 It is, it's so true. They represent everything you built, so thank you for that. Let's talk a little bit about how you got into sales and what kept you in the industry for 30-plus years. Kevin, Kevin 02:55 Yeah, it was a very odd journey. So Ross Ulmer had become a mentor of mine at a young age when I started working for him at Ulmer Shev as the mechanic that you had mentioned. And I worked through that time in my life, got my journeyman left for college, and then after college, I got the opportunity for my quote, dream job, which took me to Edmonton, and I was there for about a year with the Advanced Research Park developing laser storage for computers. But I never, ever saw my family, and quickly realized there's, there's a difference between, you know, fame and fortune, and just what echoed in my heart that I wanted to be, which was a great father. And so in that time, Ross had always stayed in touch and came by and visited, and I was so proud to show him everything I was doing, but then he could sense that I wanted to get back to a smaller place. I hated Edmonton, I hated the big city raising my family. I never felt we were safe, and so he enticed me, I would say, into coming back to Lloyd and joining him as a salesperson. And I suppose you'd have to understand, I really hate sales people. I felt that they would just lie, say whatever they needed to say to get the sale, and that was my experience of sales people, and so there was this, I don't know how I could ever do that job at all, because that just isn't me. Sharon 04:51 I always think of sales people like clowns. When people are terrified of clowns, I'm terrified of sales people, right? It's a true story. So you and I are on the same page right now. Kevin 05:02 Yeah, like, if you interviewed anybody, there's almost nobody I've met that says I love to be sold. Now, if you asked anybody—do you like help and get assistance to be able to make the best decision for you and your needs— I think everybody would say, yeah. So when I started with Ross, I was the only person that that didn't have a salesman on his business card. I had auto sales counsellor. That's that's how I viewed what I did. And so my goal wasn't to sell, my goal was to find out what your needs are and help you fill them, and that's still what I do. So that's kind of how I got started, and then one of the things that I learned from that was that given a chance, I would always do my very best to make people proud. And that's the employee side that I think most people need to start to think about how they actually are as an employee, and Ulmer Shev spent the most of anybody I know, on training, hours, and ongoing training. They are very well trained to be good sales assistants. Sharon 06:25 Can I interrupt you for one second? I'm really curious about that question. So you said they're very good at training. So they're training you on sales. Are they training you on their culture? Are they training you to be a better employee? Are they training you… what are they training you on? Kevin 06:35 They train on everything. I know that seems odd, but they train to be able to understand… Ross Ulmer is an incredible entrepreneur, and he is usually about 10 years ahead of the trends, and with that, we even had training. I don't know if you have ever heard of the fish philosophy coming out of Seattle, from the fish market there. Anyway, we even had that training. It's a fish market in Seattle that throws fish around, and it's world famous for what it does, and we had them come in and train because it's about building that relationship, making things exciting for your clients, doing that with each other, and making little games out of it. How could it be fun to sell fish, and yet they do so, when I say, train on everything, it is comprehensive. So, training on social media. How do you grow in social media? So sales is an aspect plus, General Motors, you are there four times a year training about the product. So in addition to product, Ross comprehensively trains on the sales process. Sharon 07:57 So there's so much value as an employer to invest in the training, to go down to your team. Kevin 08:02 I absolutely would say that is so true, and Ross has strongly invested in that. Always. Sharon 08:11 Very cool. That's a good takeaway, right there. Thank you. Yeah. Kevin 08:15 So, having kind of worked for Ross, seeing his entrepreneurial side, it was really inspiring, and when I left that to pursue what I thought might be a different career, I learned what traits I wanted to see in my employer, and I wasn't going to accept less out of my next employer. Sharon 08:41 Okay, you just opened up a can of worms. I hope you have those traits listed. What are they? Kevin 08:48 I think we'll get to them. So I will say, Sharon 08:51 Okay, all right, I'm gonna let you keep talking then, okay, but I'm definitely writing it down, because we're not avoiding that. Kevin 08:57 I will say that I did take my time to figure out where my talents are. So there's traits I'm looking for, there's talents as an employee I have, and I needed to try and find the best match. Sharon 09:11 Can I interrupt again? I'm so sorry. I'm learning so much from you, Kevin. So usually I feel because I'm an employer, they have to be a best match for us, right? And we talked about this right before we started recording, but that's not true. We have to be the best match for them as well, and we talked like about how life is short and you got to feel rewarded at the end of the day, not not even rewarded, fulfilled, I think, is the proper wording, fulfilled. And you do your due diligence to find out if that's the right fit for you, is what you're saying. You had to make sure you found the right organization to make sure you were fulfilled. Okay. Anyway, sorry. Kevin 09:50 Not at all. That's exactly what I would say is correct in in that assessment, and I think too many times as employees, I think when we're looking for a new job, we go looking for something that typically pays us very well. They hunt for the dollars, and I think there's some great positions that don't pay as well, but you will love doing—I can personally say that is true. There's more money in the car business than what I do, but I love what I do, Sharon 10:26 Right. And again, it goes back to being fulfilled, and sometimes you know what—it may start off lower, but as you grow and as you excel, there's room for advancement. You just got to be aware of that, I think, and make sure you do your due diligence when you do go to those jobs, to make sure that is an option. Kevin 10:41 So I knew Robbie Cashel from Culligan Water there before. Knew him personally. So I knew his ethics, honesty, integrity, and generosity and commitment to people like at a life, living coaching level. So from that perspective, I had the advantage of knowing the owner. I had never met Sean, and so I met Sean, the general manager then, but now an owner, and I took on that role to develop that area of business. They had no sales people there. There was a person that would come out maybe once or twice a week from Edmonton, Colligan store and and help them with that, and then just Robbie and Sean doing it. So obviously that was too much work for them, and interestingly enough, so much in my mind to make sure that I found the right employer. I wanted to make sure it would be the right stuff, because I won't sell snake oil. I have to know it's going to be quality. I have to know that I can represent it to my friends, my family and my clients who become my friends Sharon 11:59 And yeah, and also, like, you're doing good, you're literally helping. Kevin 12:03 Yeah, but I didn't know that before I started right, right? So this was the thing I said to Robbie and Sean. I said, Okay, here's the deal. Give me $1,000 just to start me as an employee. I want a month to evaluate this, you evaluate me, and we'll see if this is a fit. And so that's how we started our relationship, that way, and in that month, I was so impressed with all of the Kaschl's, even their mom and dad, Patty and Carl, if you guys know them, they used to have another store, and they never had any gray areas. They never took advantage of a client. They were fully transparent, honest, ethical, which are what the those things I was looking for, and I had experienced in my past manager that had lied to me and in all my power, I would never work for somebody that has a problem with that. And I actually ask employers that. I'm like—okay, I have one question. Would you ever lie to me? And you don't even have to answer that, I can just walk out the door. We'll say we're not a fit. But you know, most people will kind of sputter and stutter a bit and go, No, but I mean, obviously you're on a need to know basis, but anything I tell you will be the truth. And that was exactly the answer Ian Nicholson gave me when I started at Ulmer Shev as the sales rep back then. Sharon 13:38 Wow. Like, even I just picked up something from that, a learning for me. So like as we grow and evolve over here at its time, so we used to be transparent on everything, but I can't possibly relay those messages and what we're doing. So we're incorporated as well, but I can't possibly share that with all my team, because it's getting it's bigger, so it's like a need to know basis, and it's like some of these people have been with us for a long time, so they're having to transition to this different mindset as well. So it's like I have to be more transparent to them of the evolution and what we're doing here. So I picked up something already from what you're saying, because I don't want them feeling that they're being left out. That's the last thing I'd ever want anybody to feel. But we're evolving, so it's on a need to know basis now. So thank you. Kevin 14:21 So true. So Patty and Carl treated me like family. Every time they came in, they stopped, they would talk to us. And I mean, the same with Lindsay and Dawn, wives of Robbie and Sean. Carl and Patty even invited me to their place in Costa Rica for myself. And I was like, that is amazing. So I was like, wow, everything about them as people—fantastic and pleased with their customer service. That was another huge thing, because that is everything if you're a salesperson, but you don't have a good service team behind you. It's detrimental to your career. So that was another place I was testing it out. And we always truly do what's best for the client that every time, and they never had gray areas there, never took advantage of them there. It was exciting with that small Culligan dealership, as we were just growing. I felt an instrumental part of it. So you talked about that, for employees to feel that they're part of that. And it was very much the same as when I started with Ross and Ulmer Shev in the early years there. And I know this is always so important when you are a part of something bigger than yourself, and you see growth and you feel valued and protected, you will always produce and perform better, Sharon 15:57 Value and protected. Give me an example. So protected what's protected. Kevin 16:02 You know, I am going to talk about that a little bit later with some of the questions. Sharon 16:07 I'm going to one and two, you better not okay, all right, Kevin 16:10 You won't even have to wait a long time. So I do have to say that ever since I started, because of our growth curve, I've always worked about 50 hours a week, got paid for 40 other than, you know, commissions. You get paid what you work, right? But I worked a lot of long days and virtually without fail, when I would be on my way home, late evening, or often even in a home, I get a call from Robbie, sometimes Sean checking in. So there's one of those examples, because I hadn't made it back to the Culligan store before they left, and often it would coincidentally happen right when I was telling a client about the incredible people that I work for, and I say, pick up the phone because it's literally ringing when I'm saying that. Sharon 17:01 It's yes, yeah, funny. Kevin 17:03 See, Robbie's calling and make sure I'm okay. And I actually would answer the phone, introduce him to the new clients, and he would talk to them. So they, yeah. It was just amazing. Sharon 17:17 Yeah. So how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day, there's a difference, right? Clocking in nine to five, you get your paycheck, so now you get to go home and you feel like a million bucks. Kevin 17:28 Yeah, for several reasons—everything that I do with Culligan, as you know, actually benefits the client a lot, to the point that it's health change, which could be longer life, definitely better quality of life for longer and so it always is, is just a joy, Sharon 17:53 Awesome. Kevin 17:55 And I will say that, being that we are just people at Culligan, we can have people that just made a mistake, have an off day, but the difference I saw was we would always make it right. They would always make amends. We would always make sure the client was satisfied to the best of our ability. And that was what I saw with our team, our service team, and I said, that's a group I can get on board with. Sharon 18:25 Yeah, you can walk tall with that, right? Kevin 18:30 So then you were gonna ask me about eight years. I don't know if that's where you're going? Sharon 18:35 You know what? I am not even following the script anymore, because I'm just taking notes, and I'm learning, Kevin, tell me why you chose to stay at Culligan for eight years. That's a long time. Kevin 18:49 Quick answer. The people, as I said, the people that I work for, the people I worked with, after three years Culligan had grown to the point we took over Culligan, North Battleford. At that point, there was so much work I head hunted for another Culligan rep, Michael Helmetse. He's so intelligent, such a great co worker, and definitely helps me to excel. He's got creative marketing ideas. He was a manager for Mark’s Work Warehouse for a few years, I think about three, and so there's just a lot that he brought to the table for us as we grow and work with him, he's a personal friend. And when I say that, people, are why I stayed in Culligan, like the Kaschl's, actually cares about people and their health, everything they do, every product they make, certified to do what it's intended to do by athird party. Sharon 19:51 Can I interrupt you for one second? Don't lose your spot. But I just want to point out to our listeners, you made the comment just now. Yeah. You use the word ‘we’ as we grow. And I think that's super important to point out, you're part of that team, you're like, you're part of the we. It's not like as they grew. Anyways, I just wanted to point that out, that I really picked that up, and you're part of that organization and that company. I think that's really valuable. Kevin 20:17 I think that's a good point to bring out, because it is a mindset as an employee. It was always ‘we,’ and that was a culture that Ross Ulmer, the Culligan, the Kaschl's, everybody, it's we. It's not them, me, Sharon 20:38 For the employers listening. Remember, it's a we it's it is, and we can't do it without like it's a team, it's a team effort. And I yeah, so thank you for that. That really resonated with me. Thank you. Kevin 20:49 The biggest reason is always the client. They are why I do this. I used to feel, before I started with Culligan, that people that bought water had to be water snobs. I just could not understand that concept. And I was ignorant, right? Sharon 21:11 I think a lot of us are ignorant about the water thing like, I think a lot of us are in Culligan like, they have a huge opportunity to keep growing, of course, because there's a lot of us out there that are like that. Kevin 21:22 That is so true. And every home that we come into for free and people actually realize what is in our water and things like PFOAs, PFAS, it's now called, but huge. If people haven't heard that, they really should look it up and then get some, get us to come to water test with them. But I learned the harmful effects of bad water on our health, things that are carcinogenic, causing cancer, and it was such an eye opener. And then I always felt a great intrinsic reward in helping those people, because I'm helping them to remove those concerns. And there's a difference that I realized coming, you know, from the car industry into the Culligan and water treatment industry, is it's very different having people leave happy with their payments on some depreciating asset like a vehicle, and now changing people's lives and giving them the gift of health. So you were exactly right. My day, when I go home at night, it might be 10 o'clock before I get back 14 hour days, on occasion, and still, because of the people, and knowing that you're helping them, that's why I've stayed eight years, and I really can't imagine doing anything else. Sharon 22:56 Yeah, that's a remarkable transitioning, so sales rep and sales manager. So you are a sales manager right now? Yes. Kevin 23:06 What? Congratulations very much. It's a really different role. And all of the people that know me are going to say, I don't know, Kevin, I don't know if you're gonna like that, because you're gonna miss the people, and it will remain to be seen. Yes, I definitely miss the people, but I plan to shadow my people enough that I'll get a chance to continue to meet people. And it's shifted. So you know that joy that I would have in knowing I help people, now I am transitioning that to caring for my people and having them feel that joy. I think we talk about a little longer down the road. Sharon 24:02 I want to shout out to Culligan, so you had mentioned eight years ago, when you started, they didn't, they did their own sales. They didn't even have an outside salesperson. You had mentioned that, and now you're a sales manager. Right? To me, it shows evolution, growth, but I believe you can't have those growth and that evolution without your culture and your beliefs and the right people on the team. So a huge congratulations to Kaschl's, but also a huge congratulations to yourself as well. Kevin 24:32 Thank you very much. Appreciate that, and definitely I do feel that it's like an egg or a seed. If you're planted in fertile soil, you get to grow. It's a symbiotic relationship between employer and employee. If you're both giving, it's good. So, as I said, we don't sell with Culligan. We don't call our people, sales people. We will call them water specialists. My term that I liked the best was what I was doing was water testing and system design specialist. And we do it at no charge community service. We don't even charge a penny if we had to visit a client that was five and a half hours return trip. We don't guilt anyone. We don't pressure anyone. We just help them. If it isn't now, a lot of times it might not be right now, we might have found a way that we can reprogram their softener and it works again for a bit, but when they do need then they call us back. And so we really love having that opportunity. I just recently hired another water testing and system design specialist for Kaschl's Culligan North Battleford store. We're excited for that growth, and we're excited to have a local person there, Sarah Conan's interesting story—in the process of hiring Sarah, when I talked to her in the beginning, I said, Okay, if you are doing this to get a sale, you'll probably be very disappointed, and it won't be a very fulfilling career. But if in your heart, you are doing this to help people, and understand what they have, and give them the knowledge to help them make better choices, if they buy or not, you will have an intrinsic reward from helping people. That has to be the motivation for what you do. And I love the quote—you can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want. It's attributed to Zig Ziglar, motivational speaker and author. The quote encapsulates a core principle of success through collaboration and mutual benefit. It suggests that by focusing on helping others achieve their goals, one naturally creates opportunities for your own success. The ideas rooted in the concept of reciprocity and building strong, positive relationships, when you prioritize the needs and goals of others, you foster trust and goodwill, which leads to reciprocal support and assistance when you need it. It's the philosophy that emphasizes the power of teamwork and collective achievement. I'll make a comment on transitioning from sales rep to sales manager as we're on that topic, and how that came about and feels for me. So when I started with Culligan, I made a decision to work like I was an owner, and maybe one day I will be. Sharon 27:56 That is so cool. That's really clever. I like that outlook on it. You know, can I interrupt you?I have a little girl that works for me. She's 21 years old. She said to me—if she's caught up, because you know when you just started, it's kind of hard to find the things to do, or if I'm busy, I can't tell her all the time what to do, right? So she says, look for something that your boss should not be doing, and do it. How clever is that? And everybody can learn from that. If you're just starting out in a career, look for that, because we do need help as an employer, right? So I thought that was very clever. So sorry for interrupting and adding on to that. Kevin 28:35 No, that's a good point, and thanks for adding that. So as I mentioned above, I worked long hours so the clients wouldn't have to wait, because the client was so important to me to make sure they got the help they needed. I treated the position like it was a business within the Kaschl's business, and a lot of employees don't have that mindset, and that is the one that will help you to excel. Sharon 29:01 And do you think I feel that everybody nowadays needs instant gratification that is not an instant gratification that's going to take years of gratification, and I feel that right now, because, like, everything is fast, everything is quick, and we need instant gratification. And unfortunately, you have to do the due diligence. You have to pay the work as anything else to get going on that. So yes, thank you. Kevin 29:23 It is true, I have never asked for a raise where I was again, I'm in commission sales, so the more I work, the more I make. But I've never asked for a raise. They would usually see what I did and then give me raises. Sometimes it would be three years, but still it's, I believe the way you do that. I would do everything that it could to make the store excel. On that note, we just got the top dealer award in the small market from Culligan, so things are exciting. The team that is created there is excelling, and it's being noticed by Culligan worldwide. So I believe that talent, dedication, my coworkers, good management are the reason for this, and obviously my transition into sales manager is because I have strong knowledge to support my water treatment team, make sure that before I accepted that each of my potential staff wanted and would support me as their choice for sales manager. Before I considered changing my role, I talked to my team, and I'm happy to say that they strongly encouraged me and have strongly supported me with the assistance that I need in my new position, and that I'm very honored that you know, the Kaschl's have given me that opportunity to be sales manager over the three stores—we've got Kaschl's Culligan, Lloydminster, Kaschl's Culligan, North Battleford and Bonnyville, Culligan, Bonnyville there for about two years now. Sharon 31:20 So that's pretty remarkable. So what I'm listening to when I'm picking up what you're saying right now is you have support in your growth. You have a strong relationship with your team members, but you also have developed a strong relationship with your customers and with a belief that you're helping them, and you are helping them. So it stands for everything that you believe is true. True is how absolutely, yeah. So that's why you're fulfilled, yeah. So like, as employers, like, how can you offer that to your team? How can you give back? How can you make them feel that they're able to grow within your organization just like that? Kevin 32:00 I think I I want them to experience how I experienced the job. So saying that, I mentioned that I'm in the process of training Sarah in North Battleford, and she was shadowing me as I did a couple of appointments last Friday, and we were debriefing after the appointments, and she made the comment like, wow, I really enjoyed those clients. I would really enjoy hanging out with them and having a beer with them. Sharon 32:38 I think I love Sarah. Kevin 32:40 This comment is actually the reason that I loved what I do for the eight years. The feeling that you made a new friend happens virtually with all my clients. I could be broke down anywhere, and have somebody that I know, that would be close, that would come and help me. Sharon 32:57 And sometimes do you feel when you go out and do these sales calls, you get to know them, and I'm just picking up on this customer that Sarah had chatted with or talked about. So I find even in my business, there'll be a customer come in, because I don't do outside sales yet, so they'll come in. But I honestly want to get to know them, and sometimes I get to help them by things that I'm not selling, right? It's nothing to do with promotions. It could be something that I picked up in my organization or my network that I can give back to them and help them. It could be from a piece of software to—it could be an employee. It could be so many different things that I'm able to give back so getting to know them. You can help them more than just what you're there to help them with, if that makes sense, Kevin 33:38 Very true, as an add on to that same thing for me. So I found that there were some people that wanted to change their own filters, and inevitably, there's a reason our techs usually do it. We sanitize, we do a better job. There's no question. But for some people, they're just going to do it themselves, and then they wouldn't have success, and they wouldn't have water, and we would end up spending an hour on the phone trying to help them, and I saw that as a big time waster, and it's always the same. So I went home, well, at the dealership, I guess. I set up a RO, I did the change, recorded it all, videoed it all, put it up on YouTube, and it's one of the most popular YouTube videos in relation to our older system, the Culligan Aqua Cleer, so people change. So that's one way that I saw we can save some time here and give customers better service. And so we get people from all over the place, Florida saying—Hey, can I buy the filters from you? You guys seem like you know what's going on. And so that's one area that you're absolutely right. By helping people, there was no money in it for us. In fact, it would take money away from my service department, but it would give our team time to work in other areas. Sharon 35:05 So to employers, how can you increase that service but also increase value to your customers? That's what I'm picking up, right? It's like, how So focus on something that you're offering, and how can you improve that to offer more value to your customers? Kevin 35:21 Or see a place where there's an inefficiency, time where you're not getting paid for it? Yeah, so I had such a big smile on my face when I heard that Sarah also felt the same way about clients becoming their friends. That to me, were 90% of the way to having her be a successful Culligan water testing specialist, and it almost makes me feel guilty every day that I get to do this, because it's so fun. Sharon 35:55 Wow, so is that something to feel guilty about… I get to go to work today, and you know, even like, and I've said that so many times, if we're not the right fit for you, like, life is short, let me help you find the right fit, you know. Like, not everybody likes the like for us here, at its time, you're multitasking. It's fast paced. It's Go, go, go. So we don't get to focus just on one thing. Like, you got to learn so much. So it's a lot. Not everybody is capable of doing that, right, or want to do that, and that's okay. We'll find the person that can. But let me help you find, because life is short, let's find where you can excel. Kevin 36:30 Absolutely. So I'd finish that off by saying, I do pray that all the people listening get the opportunity to fulfill their purpose, as I get to. Sharon 36:39 Yes, it's important, and you get to go home, you get to walk tall, you get to smile at those people when you see them out and about. And yeah, it's great. So can you recall a time you felt especially supported or recognized at work? Kevin 36:54 Yes, every day I hear the owners talk about the things that I did that went well when they call me to make sure I'm okay to get home, they want to text when I'm home at my house, make sure that I got home. And now I do that same thing for my team. So those are, I think, important, and it just shows it's beyond only a employer-employee relationship, that it genuinely cares about us. Sharon 37:27 And it's just simple. It's simple. You just gotta generally care. So generally care is not simple. Don't get me wrong. But those messages so people don't have it, but those messages are simple. Kevin 37:40 Exactly, and other reasons, top reasons for staying. I've mentioned some before already. We did talk about clients who become friends. They're truly the owners that treat us like family. And the third we talked about the product. Product is the best in the world, every time. So to know your company has good product, we talked about it being third party certified as the best, the longest warranty, the least maintenance, the most efficient in the world. So an employee looking for job security and a place that unquestionably has the world's best products, you know you've got job security there, right? So that's why I've stayed there, and as you notice, we've continued to grow. We were really proud through COVID that we didn't have to lay anybody off. And not many people can say that, but I know that our management was very dedicated to finding where they could move and shift routes and change things and so that they could make it fit with that income. And we actually grew through COVID time too. Sharon 38:58 I feel that during the whole COVID thing, there's a double edge there. So, yes, you want your employees to stay employed. They need an income. You would that would be devastating to watch them struggle. But second of all, we talked about also how hard it is to train and invest in a new employee. So as an employer, there's a double side. We need you guys as well. Like, that's a huge investment to go backwards. Like you guys are already trained, you're ready to go after this thing is over. So it's a double edged sword. And like I say, it's a team environment and it's a relationship. And so I think that it's a you can recognize it on both ends there. Kevin 39:34 So again, with our culture of doing the best and really showing up. So that's the part with the employees responsibility. We do tend to attract what we call ‘Eagle’ type people. I don't know if you've heard the term before, most of us trying to excel in business have, and you see the work ethic of Robbie, Dawn, Sean, and Lindsay Kaschl, the owners now they lead by example. There's none of them that are like never there…who knows what they're doing. They are all there. They're working hard, you know. And the other part that kept me in the job, and for most of us in the outside sales and inside sales, it's the autonomy of the job. Big reason that Michael and I really love what we do. We don't have anybody telling us what we have to do. We don't have anybody telling us when we have to do it. We're just expected to serve the client the best way possible, and that gives us more latitude than a rule book ever can. Sharon 40:49 Interesting because I believe in systems and organization, but sometimes that boils down to micromanaging. Kevin 40:55 I think having a process there that is our reference has to be in place absolutely. So I think you're doing the right thing. I support that fully. Beyond that, how they accomplish those same steps and how they, when they do those steps, to me, as a manager, I don't care. I'm results based. Sharon 41:19 Results based. I love it. Love it because everybody does things a little bit differently, and it's okay. Your way is not always the right way. There's multiple ways of doing it. Kevin 41:27 That's hard for me to believe, because I am very much it has to be this way person, but you're you are correct. The rest of the world would agree with you. If I let my people go and do things their way, then I'll look at that go, Yeah, I guess that could work. I never thought of it. That's the problem. Yeah, all of us do what we have logically gone through—this is the best solution to that process, but if you loosen the the lines a little bit, let people be creative in their workspace to do it that way. And these days, I got to tell you with with the millennials and the Gen X and that they are very different from you and me, and they are going to want to work at things a lot differently than you and me. So as long as the results are there, and to me, the biggest result that has to happen, it has to result in happy clients, all of us, that's the only thing that we are actually there for. Sharon 42:33 I'm going to jump over one of our outlines. I'm going to jump over to one just because we're already up at a few minutes here. So the next one on number five—it says, what kind of leader do you want to be and why? I think that's a great example for our listeners. What can they evolve to? What should they be working towards? Kevin 42:51 I wouldn't be a great leadership without the full support of my team. So I've mentioned that before, but honestly, Mike in household water, Nathan in bottles and coffee services, they're amazing. I have told them that so many times that they'll finish the sentence now they're like, yes, we know you're so lucky to have us, and they laugh. But imagine if everyone had a boss that they genuinely knew how appreciative they were for them, how much more would they enjoy their workplace? I had a great manager when I worked in Edmonton for that one year, and I hired him because I was head of the mechanical division, but I didn't have an engineering degree, and so I was in a rare position where I hired the person that would become my boss, or part of the team that hired him, and he was an engineer. His name was Barton Pulewski, still a friend to this day, and he was not like any other manager I'd ever worked for. With Barton, he always included me and every other person on the team in brainstorming. And then he would make a decision. He'd ask myself and others, what are your thoughts? You know we felt like we had our viewpoints expressed and that they mattered, and we all felt we were being heard and valued. So he wouldn't make any decisions without getting the input from his people that were actually doing the job. And I saw that he made great decisions because he used what I would call collective intelligence, and he's continued to be very successful at anything that he's done. So I want to model that type of a manager. Sharon 44:51 I’m going to outline those real quick for you. So for our listeners to make point form, recognize them. First of all, use you know you recognize your team, and you say thank you, and you can't do it without them, inclusion to make sure everybody is involved in it and that you want to be heard and valued. So your views do matter, and that collective intelligence will help that person, because everybody's got different views, and everybody's got different input. So collective intelligence can help that person as well by listening. Kevin 45:21 For sure, without question. Yeah. So I want to manage with collective intelligence. I want to start my research for a decision by asking my team what they think. I ask them regularly in our meetings once a week, what was working for you this week, and I listen, then I asked what was not working for you this week, or what problems did you have? And I listen. Sharon 45:45 Listen, like it, that's simple. It should be simple, isn't it? Listen. Kevin 45:53 And of course, for myself, there's a strong faith component in why I do what I do, why I took the sales managers position and so I do often pray. I pray for the wisdom of King Solomon, if you know your history, he was supposedly the wisest King that existed. So that, I think is important for a manager to have a good, strong foundation, whatever that might be for people. For me, it's a faith foundation. I feel that because I've done, you know, a big portion of what our reps will have to do, I know what's possible, what's not possible, what's realistic and attainable to set for goals. And I know when my salespeople can be stretched a bit on there. Sharon 46:51 Okay, so that's a good point, too. So you're taking that upon yourself to be aware of that. So you're literally watching. And that's not a trait everybody has. In fact, probably 15% it's not a normal trait. So for those people out there who want to grow, whether it be in sales or whether it be in your business that you're working at, just be aware of your surroundings. Like, how can you help those people around you? How can you help them grow? How can you help them evolve? How can you help them ask for that? What failed, what didn't? So that's a key takeaway for me as well. Thank you. Kevin 47:27 I also have been through sales slumps that they'll call them, and you just can't get anything to come together, and they're very hard. Typically, the problem is with me as a salesperson, but it's very hard to get that turned around. I do know that when I've experienced those it was never productive for me. When the manager gives you crap for underperforming, it never helps. Usually, there's some underlying problem, so again, we're back to that discussion and listening. Why do you think this is happening? What do you think you can do differently? You may have to coach and give them something, but they may have some of these answers. They just haven't taken the time to be introspective and do it. So I have seen for myself you need, you need some joy in your life. So my managers might, in the car business, throw me a deal that we call house deals, where, you know the client called the manager, it's a friend of his, and he, you know, basically has all the rapport there., it's an easy deal, but all of a sudden you see some star on the board for us, it's like, oh, there we go. I did good. If we don't see that all the time, we will tend to say‚ I'm not good. I'm not that, self talk the negative self talk that… Sharon 48:58 Gets in your head, get in your head. Kevin 49:01 Yeah so that's our key, is trying to recognize that in my people, and protect their positive attitude, to help them believe in themselves again. Sharon 49:16 Thank you. Is it okay if I jump a little bit ahead here, because the podcast is to help our listeners. So I'm going to ask you what companies can do to earn long term employee loyalty. So I'm hiring somebody, and I don't want to hire them for a year. I want to hire them for 15 years. What can a company do to keep those people for 15 plus years. Kevin 49:43 I will speak from our Culligan point of view. Our core values are family, integrity, and dedication. So that's to our customers, that's to our employees, and we genuinely care, as you've probably realized already. A few times when I hurt my back, my team has carried things for me, even helped me at home. And I remember one or two times, Sean himself came over and shoveled my long drives after a snowstorm because, quote, I was in the area. So I think, yeah, right. How do you not want to stay when people treat you like that? Sharon 50:25 Yeah, be good. We have alpha here at its time promotions. We call it the flock. We call ourselves the flock. And it's kind of the same scenario. So like and that, that is a good example. So for example, if you ever did some teaching of a Canada Goose, that's really informational, and that's kind of what we follow. But when one goose goes down, another goose goes and stays with it, protects it. And it's the same scenario, like you had a hurt back. So it's my team, myself, to you know, we go down and we help that person to get back up. So, anyways, it's very cool to hear that. Kevin 50:58 Yeah, if an employer treats an employee like they're expendable. They'll quickly leave. And I find, as we talked about earlier, the fit for talents to employee that's important, that they need to enjoy what they're doing, and then they'll stay long term. Sharon 51:20 Right fit, so they gotta have the right seat on the bus. I always call it. They need the right seat. And sometimes you can. I remember I hired my general manager. She was just a little girl right out of college, and she was supposed to work the front, and I soon learned that, no, she's not a front staff person. So we just found the right seat on the bus. And guess what? She's still with me 15 years later. So Right. So it's pretty cool. You've got to find the right seat on the bus for them, if they're if they have the same culture they see, you know what that value is? Kevin 51:45 We have done that too with some employees. Yeah, I feel that promoting from within gives the people aspirations for higher positions. Who wants to work at a job where there's no career path, right? You really need to know, here's what I want for my career. What's this career path? And if they don't have it with you, then they're going to have to leave to pursue their dreams. Sharon 52:15 So that's interesting, because Culligans have been growing and so the career paths, like the organizational chart. It changes as you evolve. So when you started eight years ago, did you have a career path, or has it been changing as you go? Kevin 52:28 I had career path of being a sales manager when it was back at ownership. So that was always a goal, and I did a lot of the training for the sales people, new sales people when they would start there, so it was always there. I also wanted to be an owner, so I still have that career path in mind. Sharon 52:50 Got you, so you set a career path within yourself. Gotcha, good for you. That's awesome. I love it. I love it so much. Kevin 53:00 So with that, my employer in our evaluation, asks, what are your goals? And so we're able to see, okay, here's a person that wants this. Now, they may not have a skill set for that, but you can have a conversation and say, Hey, I see you want to be a sales manager, but you're really wouldn't have the people skills, communication skills you'll need to do that job. This is probably an area that self growth, maybe if you do this, you will see that happening. Sharon 53:34 Self growth, yep. Kevin 53:37 I think some employers are really scared to have truthful conversations with their employee. We are. Sharon 53:48 It's a true thing, and not even it's not a lie. But sometimes especially if you're in the trenches and you keep going, you don't even know what they are. It's not even like, it's not even like a non truth. Is just hard. It's get an employer's hard. Kevin 54:05 For sure, being a manager is hard. That brings me to the next point, of course, that virtually every conflict and resolution has communication at the heart of it. So understanding what your employees goals are, as we mentioned, helping them to achieve those, they achieve their dreams, it'll help your organization. I'll give you a solid example of that. At one point there was a regional trainer with Culligan, the so the sales rep that's in charge of all of the sales reps, as in just training and making sure they're on track, etc, introducing new product. And there was an opening with Culligan corporate for that, and I went to Robbie, and I said, Robbie, I think I'd be really good at that. I'd like to apply. Would you give me a letter of recommendation? And it was glowing. I'm like, Oh my gosh, who is this person? I would hire him. But, but he wasn't threatened to lose me. He did everything in his power to make sure that I was able to go after my dream. It didn't work out. I stayed and here we are. You know, now they're still benefiting, but I know that if there was anything that was good for me, Robbie would wholly support it. Same with Sean. Sharon 55:37 100% and as an employer, we have to have that mindset. Yes, you invest in me, yes, you help them grow, and yes, you nurture them. But there might be a time where they're gonna fly. Kevin 55:46 That's exactly right. So that's your goal as an employer, is to help your employee get what they want. That helps you get what you want, the Zig Ziglar. Sharon 55:58 Okay. Final thoughts, Kevin, about loyalty, growth and purpose. So what is it exactly that you want people, our listeners, to remember, and it's basically on loyalty, growth and purpose. What is that? Kevin 56:11 Well, to me, Peter Senge, as a quote, he says, the only sustainable competitive advantage is an organization's ability to learn faster than the competition. To me, that's a reference on how company values their employees. Turnover kills companies. Most people leave jobs because of their management, and most will tell you that they felt unappreciated or used. As a manager owner, are you investing in your people? Are you loyal to your people? Do you believe that they are the reason for your success? So that, to me, is the key. It says everything— do that, you'll be fine. Sharon 56:48 The only sustainable competitive advantage in an organization, is the ability to learn faster than the competition. Kevin 56:57 Technology is going to continue to change. You won't always have the best of this or that. Your ability to adapt because of that knowledge. Sharon 57:05 Perfect. Thank you. So I summarize it up here, because we definitely over time, I might have to edit this a little bit, but I've learned so much, and I really appreciate you. So, for our listeners out there, when you find someone who not only fits the role, but truly feels valued and seen, something powerful really does happen. It's no longer just a job for them, and it's no longer just a position you need to fill, it becomes a mutual investment, a partnership, and maybe down the road, they can even become part owner, right? So like, pick what you want to do. And when that relationship is built on trust, loyalty and shared vision, both sides get to grow. To all the business owners out there, keep looking for people like Kevin and to all the employees, when you find a workplace that sees your worth, lean in. That's where the magic happens. Thanks for tuning in to It's Time for Success: The Business Insights podcast. Be sure to subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs to hear it, and remember, business is about people always. Thank you, Kevin for joining us today. Kevin 58:04 I'll do one more, and you can decide if you want to put it in somewhere or not. With employees, we talked about being an eagle a while ago, and I find you're either an eagle, you're high performance, you're looking for things you can do to get better. You're looking for ways to help the company, or you're a chicken, and a chicken walks around in the coop. They walk around in their own crap that they make every day, all day long, an eagle never does. And so if you're experiencing crap all around you at work, maybe you're the one with the crappy attitude. Sharon 58:54 That's so true, and they're always looking for excuses and pointing fingers. Don't be that person to point fingers. Own it. Attitude is everything and I've even learned over my own life, it was personal, and I used to think to myself, like, blame, blame, blame. But you know what it's like, you focus in and you just try to make your life better, and only focus on you if you're going through a rough time, focus on you, concentrate on you, and the rest will evolve. I believe that, I've done it, I've witnessed it, so just be a better you, and the rest will evolve for sure. Thank you, Kevin, until next time, keep building, keep learning and keep growing. Bye for now everybody.