Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Whispers To Wins With Coach John DeFilippo

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Whispers To Wins With Coach John DeFilippo · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Rosters to rings. Alongside Ryan McDonough, I am
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: fad Levine.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Rian.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: We've got a tremendous show this week. John d Philippo's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: going to join us. He spent the last twenty six
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: years coaching football at the collegiate, USFL and NFL levels.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Segment three, we're going to bring back listener questions from Wyatt,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: who's assured us that he's taken the training wheels off.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: No more tassels on the handlebars. We're going full speed downhill.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: But where I would like to start is in the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: NBA with you, Ryan, The de facto trade season is
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: starting next week. Can you give our listeners a little
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: bit of a primer as to what to expect and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: what is the significance of December fifteenth in the NBA schedule?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: That great to be with you as always. This is
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: the start the unofficial start of the NBA's trade season.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: The trade deadline is at three o'clock on February fifth,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: so that's almost two months from now. But the unofficial
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: trade season begins next Monday, December fifteenth, And the reason
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: for that that is because that's the day that a
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: vast majority of players who signed contracts this passed off
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: season become trade eligible. Now we're past a quarter pole
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: in the NBA, almost a third of the way into
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: the season in some cases, So teams generally have a
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: pretty good idea of what's working well and what's not
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: and do they want to try to add are they
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: good holding or do they want to break it down
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: and line up for the future. So between Monday the
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: fifteenth of December in February fifth, I expect a lot
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: of action in the NBA. In fact, you mentioned going downhill.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: The first thing that came to mind when you said
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: that elective with the NBA was the LA Clippers, because
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I think that would accurately describe their season so far.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Ran, we spent a lot of time
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: on previous episodes talking about some of the overachievers that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: have taken place this year. But I'd love to hear
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: your breakdown. You sit in the seat of being the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: GM of the Clippers for a minute. What do you
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: do right now? They're sitting at six and eighteen, certainly
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: not an expected outcome so far. Do you double down
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: on the team or are you looking to move some
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of your veteran assets.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: I think This is one of those situations that where
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: there really aren't any easy answers, and the reason for
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: that is the Clippers are six and eighteen, nowhere near
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: where they hoped to be. That record is the second
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: worst record in the Western Conference, that ahead of just
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: the New Orleans Pelicans. The LA Clippers also have the
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: oldest roster, not just in the NBA today or recently,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: that they have the oldest roster in the history of
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: the NBA, in the history of the league going back
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: seventy years. This year's LA Clippers team has the oldest roster.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Their average age is thirty three point two years old.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: And then that they had the situation with Chris Paul.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: As we know, I think this is something that you
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: and I know of sports insiders. The end of a
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: star players career, especially a former stars superstars career, is
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: not always graceful. But them doing what they did last
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: week with the Clippers sending Chris Paul home, their president
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: of basketball Lawrence frank Flue cross Country met with Chris
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Paul in Atlanta. The meeting went late in the night
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: and they said, we're not cutting you, we're not waiving you,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: We're not going to do a buyout. You just need
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: to go home. So we'll see what happens that. But
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: to this point, a very unceremonious ending for Chris Paul,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: who is probably the best Clipper of all time based
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: on what he did previously with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: and the Lov City era Clippers. Sad they sent him home,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: so that the wheels have really come off the wagon
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: in LA. We know about the investigation into Kawhi Leonard
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Steve Balmer potential potential improprieties with the under the table payments.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: That is still ongoing. But now Chris Paul, the point
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: god Fad as they call him the NBA, is not
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: with the roster and sitting at home hoping to be traded.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: You know, Ryan, we've talked about it before, but in
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: professional sports, the stark reality, at least ajo it applied
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in baseball is you know, if you looked at players
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: as stocks, you were buying years twenty nine and younger,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and you were kind of selling yours thirty one and older,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and you're looking at a roster as you read difference
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: it is thirty three plus years old, which is pretty
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: staggering to consider, you know, juxtaposed I was doing a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: little research myself to try to be able to have
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a conversation with you about it. I looked at four
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: teams that are currently poised to be in the playoffs, Atlanta, Orlando, Toronto,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and the vaunted Oklahoma City Thunder. All of their rosters
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: are about twenty five years of age on average, so
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: they're about eight years younger than the Clippers. It seems
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: as if it's time to turn the page for the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Clippers and make some moves. But I don't know how
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it is in the NBA. In Major League Baseball, it's
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: not the easiest thing to do to trade aging veterans,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: guys who are thirty five, thirty six, and thirty seven
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: years old, especially some of the guys that you referenced
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: in James Harden who have like very robust salaries. So
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: what is the landscape to actually have a trade partner
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: out there that could match up if the Clippers decide
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to try to rebuild for the future.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: It's difficult that because, like in Major League Baseball, in
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: the NBA, if there were a bell curve in terms
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: of player production where you want to get a player
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: as you mentioned those teams, OKC, Orlando, and others. They're
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: right in that sweet spot because players in the NBA
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: typically play their best basketball in their late twenties. Those
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: guys in their mid twenties are just kind of approaching
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: their prime now the Clippers corp the best players on
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: the roster is really on the downsides. They're well passed
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: to curve now, I would say, would sports science players
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: have been able to play at a solid level, not
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: an all time great, all NBA level, but a solid
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: level later. I think that's been one of the things,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: and we've seen it with Lebron James, with Chris Paul
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and others who have been able to extend their career
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: on the back end, but clearly their best basketball is
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: behind them. And that that doesn't just describe Chris Paul.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: That describes really the entire LA Clippers roster. James Harden
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: in his late thirties. He makes thirty nine million this year.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: He's got a player option for forty two million next year.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: That is not something a team wants to trade for
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: because you know how those player options go. That if
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you acquire the player, he only opts in historically if
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: he doesn't play very well. If he does play well,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: he ops out and then wants a longer term contract
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: for more years, so that one's tricky. Bradley Beal, big
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: offseason acquisition after he got waived and stretched by the
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Phoenix Suns, makes five point three million this year, but
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: that he's got a player option for next year at
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: five point six million, and he's injured. He fractured his hip,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: he's out for the year, and so I think a
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: couple guys who would be a little bit easier to trade,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: even though they don't have the resumes and names those
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: guys have. Nicholas Patoum makes five point six million, Brook Lopez,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: who they just signed recently, makes eight point seventy five.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Both of those guys that have team options for next year.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: So if you're the acquiring team and you're a contender
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: and you want a veteran in one of those roles,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: you can trade for the player, see how it goes,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and then you have the control after the season. So
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: I think those contracts are a little more appealing. But
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: that I look up down the roster. All those guys
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I mentioned, they're in their mid to late thirties. Other
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: than Bradley Beal, who is still only thirty two years
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: old remarkably, but as I mentioned, he's out for the year.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: The other mitigating factor that this is the hits keep coming.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: If you're an LA Clippers fan, they don't have their
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: first round pick, the OKC thunder of all teams. As
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: we've discussed the previous episodes, going way back to the
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: now disastrous Paul George for Shiek, you'll just Alexander and
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: other things that went back to OKAC in return, Well,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: one of those things was the LA Clippers unprotected pick.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: This year.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Okacs off the historic start, they look like an all
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: time team thad and by the way, they're probably going
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: to be picking in the top five again in a
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: loaded draft coming up in twenty twenty six.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Ryan, I'd love to get into that draft in
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: a future episode where you can really break down what
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: those picks will likely translate into. As we're saying here,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: professional athletes start declining somewhere in their mid thirties. The
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: average grown man probably in their late twenties early thirties.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Podcasters so peak perform forty plus I'm even in their
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: fifties have been able to really shine. So thank goodness,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: we're in the roles we are in today, Ran, I'd
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: like to shift a little bit, and these two teams
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: are teams that are probably underachieving, but they're still playoff relevant. Interestingly,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: both sitting in the eight seed in their respective conferences,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Golden State and Cleveland, they are currently not in positions
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: they aspired to be in. They'd be playing in the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: play and process when they expected to be firmly in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the top six in their conferences. What does the outlook
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: for those two teams, and specifically I'd love to hear
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on the saga, which is Jonathan Kuminga.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Warriors are an interesting club that they had
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: high hopes coming off of a good end to the
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: year last year. Remember they were a middling team. They
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: went out made the aggressive trade to bring in Jimmy
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Butler from the Miami Heat and that worked out extremely well.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: So a number of people, myself included, thought they'd be
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: maybe a fringe contender this year, not up with OKC,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: but in that second pack, and they haven't been. They've
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: been They've been an average team so far. That I
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: mentioned that most of the players in the NBA who
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: signed this offseason are trade eligible. Next Monday, December fifteenth.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: And the reason I said most and not all because
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Jonathan Kaminga is the rare exception. There's a small grouping
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: of players who can't be traded until January fifteenth. That's
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: based on players previous contract and if a player resigns
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: with his previous team, which Kaminga did with the Warriors,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: and then gets a twenty percent rais or more. They're
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: more technical reasons for it as well, but basically, if
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: you resigned with your your previous team and you get
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: a twenty percent race, that that pushes your trade eligibility
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: date back a month to January fifteenth. And that's the
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: position the Golden State Warriors are in with Jonathan Kaminga.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: There Warriors have been you know, Okay, they're thirteen and twelve.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: You mentioned they're eighth in the West. They're about two
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: and a half games back of a play in spot
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: right now. Minnesota is in sixth, Phoenix is in seventh.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: But Comingu's contract, that is very interesting. Both parties did
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: this deal after a long protracted negotiation intentionally where he
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: signed a two year about forty seven million dollar contract
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: with the Warriors without the second year, which is next season.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: It is a team option for twenty four million, and
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: so the contract was designed to you know, get the
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: player more than the qualifying offer, which is if if
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: the teams aren't able to work out a in restricted
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: free agency, that's the player in the agent's leverage signed
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: the qualifying offer. It's usually a low dollar amount, but
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: then the players an unrestricted free agent the next offseason.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Kamend obviously didn't want to leave any money money on
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: the table in the short or long term. The Warriors
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: didn't want to have him play and be discruntled for
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: a year and then leave as an unrestricted free agent.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: So this was a compromise deal sad So I'd fully expect.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Now it's a short window between January fifteenth and February fifth,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: but the Warriors, especially if they continue in this kind
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: of middle of the pack territory in the play in range,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: not a championship contender. Keep in mind that the great
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Steph Curry is still playing at all time level when
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: he's healthy. I think they'll try to use that kaminga
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: contract to upgrade their roster with that. You know, we
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: just talked about the Clippers being an older team. Think
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: of the Corps for Golden State, Steph Curry thirty seven
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: years old, Jimmy Butler Draymond Green also in their mid thirties.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: This is probably their last best chance. I know it's
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: going to take a lot to beat Oka, see, but
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I think they feel that if you have the best
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: shooter in the history of basketball, with what Steph Curry
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: has done for that franchise now one of the most
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: valuable clubs in all of sports, you owe it to
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: him every opportunity you get. Even though he has four
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: rings already, is there a commenda trade they can make
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: to give him one more shot at a ring. I
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: think that's what Mike dun leeby Junior, the GM, and
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Golden State will be looking at over the next few months.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're talking about two different situations here where
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: it seems to me like cominga would have significant trade
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: value and could really enhance your future. Whereas the players
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: in Batoum and Lopez, the guys for the Clippers, well
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: they're nice role players. They are probably not netting you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: significant draft capital moving forward or younger players moving forward.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: So it seems to me like the Clippers are in
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: a really precarious position where even if they aspire to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: try to wave the white flag and play for the future.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: There are not a lot of assets that they have
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: to drive that process, whereas Golden State they are a
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: little bit older. But in Kminga, they do have a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: player who I'd imagined would be valued very highly within
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the league and may net some real draft capital moving forward.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: No question about two opposite ends of the spectrum Kaminga.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: The bet is that his best basketball is ahead of him.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Even though he's been in the league I think five
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: years at this point, he's still in his mid twenties.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: That so teams see the upside and the potential. The
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Phoenix Suns had interest this offseason, as did the Sacramento Kings.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: They were signing trade talks. I believe between the Sacramento
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Kings and the Golden State Warriors, they weren't able to
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: work out a deal at that time. Now that does
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: that mean they're able to resuscitate a deal and come
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: up with a new deal between January fifth, when Commingu's
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: fifteenth when Commingus trade eligible, and the trade deadline on
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: February fifth, we'll see. Certainly Phoenix is a surprise team.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: They're off to a very good start relative to expectations
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: where Sacramento was underachieved, but again that they're doing it
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: for the future, they're not doing it for this season.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: And then answer to the second party a question, the
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Cleveland Cavaliers. Yeah, they're a team that you know, I
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: was wrong, at least to this point. I thought they'd
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: be top of the Eastern Conference, the Calves and the
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Knicks or who most people predicted to win the East
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: with the injury to Jason Tatum in Boston and Tyres
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Haliburton in Indiana. But the Cavs that have really underachieved.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: The injuries to Darius Garland and Jared Allen, two of
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: their stars, have impacted them. There's no question about it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: But the challenge is that the team's constructed a little
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: bit differently the most championship contenders, with two smaller guards
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: in Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell, and then two guys
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: who were primarily centers in today's NBA and Evan Mobley
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: and Jared Allen. So, as you know, the teams that
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: are winning usually have a bunch of bigger perimeter players,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: bigger wings. Boston's kind of the prototype went healthy with
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, the Knicks and others have
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: tried to match up with that. Cleveland's kind of gone
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: counter trends and done something differently. That doesn't mean it
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: can't work. There just hasn't been a team constructed like
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: them that's won a championship in the recent history of
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: the NBA. So they're a fascinating team. I mean, Kenny
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Atkinson was the coach of the Year.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Last year.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: They ran away with the Eastern Conference. I believe they
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: finished with sixty four wins and the number one seed.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: And that's always a tough position that I know you've
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: seen it in MLB. Team has a great year and
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: maybe overachieved the previous year, the next year is hard
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: because the expectations, especially in Cleveland, have gotten sky high.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: It's kind of NBA Finals or bust for the Cavs.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: So far, through the first third of the season or so,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: it looks like a bust where they're underachieving and a
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: number of teams, including some up and comers like the
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Detroit Pistons, are well ahead of them in the Eastern
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Conference standings.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: What also seems to me Ryan that we focus a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: lot on the injuries to Tatum and Halliburton. But in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Cleveland's case both last year and this it's the cumulative
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: effect of multiple injuries which has really derailed them, which
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: has been problematic. But I also want to ask you
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: a quick question, Ryan, about three specific players. They all
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: play point guard. They're all We've talked about them, and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: we touched on these guys. They're exceptionally talented, but they
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: also come with some baggage, whether that's health issues, whether
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: that's off the court issues. Tell us a little bit
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: about the trade value of guys like Trey Young, Mellow Ball,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and John Moran and how they would fit into what's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: part of the conversation if you're acquiring a player of
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: this silk, what are you looking just at the talent
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: or is there more of a discussion here.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, three very talented point guards, as you mentioned that,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: all between twenty four and twenty seven years old, so
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: should be either in or just approaching the start of
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: their prime. But there are a lot of questions around
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: all three guys. Let's go through them one at a time.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: In Atlanta, Trey Young, he's twenty seven years old. The
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Hawks are fourteen and eleven, off to a pretty good start.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Jalen Johnson. If you haven't seen this kid play, he's
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: a breakout star. He's one of the most athletic and
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: talented wings in the league. I think he should be
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: a lock for the All Star team this year. So
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: the team has played well, Jalen Johnson looks like an
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: emergent star in a building block to be a centerpiece
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: in Atlanta for five or ten years. But the challenge
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: is that Trey Young has been injured. He's only played
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: in five of the hawks first twenty five games, so
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: they've done most of this. They've played eighty percent of
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: their season without him. And the contract is a problem.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: There's no way around it. Trey Young makes forty six
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: million this year. The bigger challenge is that next year
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: he's got a play option for forty nine million. As
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: we just discussed, those player options are not good for
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: the team because you know, if he plays well, he
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: opts out and wants four or five more years. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: you know, he's a polarizing guy fad because of the
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: defensive concerns. If people know what Tray Young can do,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: we know what his highlight packages. It's spectacular. He's the
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: closest thing to Steph Curry. We've seen as far as
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: the logo threes, the passing, the ball handling, the ability
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: to shoot from anywhere over half court. He's one of
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: the few guys in the league who can do that.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: He's also a defensive liability thad they can get attacked,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: especially in a playoff series. He's small, he's slight. He
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: hasn't shown a ton of grit on the defensive end.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: So those are the challenges and questions with him. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: one of the fascinating things around the league that as
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: I talk to executives, is is there a scenario in
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: which one of these guys is traded for another one
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: of these guys? That's been discussed, right, if there's a
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: talented guy who's a bit limited, it is a change
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: of scenery better. So now let's go to Charlotte. LaMelo
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Ball the youngest of this trio. He is just twenty
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: four years old Charlotte, as they've been for a long
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: time now, they're well below five hundred seven and seventeen.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Like Trey Young, LaMelo has been injured. He tends to
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: be injured a lot. That's a big question mark with him.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: He's only played in two thirds of the Hornets games,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: and the contract is different than Trey youngstad and this
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: is a question for a different reason. LaMelo has got
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: this year left at thirty eight million, but then he
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: has three more years left at about forty one, forty four,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: and forty six million. So those are huge numbers that
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: do you want to pay that kind of money for
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: a guy who's unreliable. There's some concerns and questions about
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: LaMelo's health and also his maturity. And again, we know
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: what he's capable of doing when he plays his highlight
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: realist spectacular a lot bigger than Trey Young at about
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: six foot seven, so his defensive potential should be better
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: than Young's, although he hasn't shown a lot of interest
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: in defending. But the question becomes that is, you know,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: with a change of scenery, with the new focus. He's
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: been in Charlotte his whole career and there's been really
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: no significant pressure on the Hornets to win. If he
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: gets to a team that does have championship or even
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: legitimate playoff aspirations, can't a new coach refocus him and
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: center him and get them locked in on defending. Because
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: we see the talent, we know what he's able to
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: do with a ball in his hands when he's.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: On the court.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Well, and Ryan, I think you've hit on these two guys,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure the conversation around John Moran is similar.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: You know, in addition to what you're talking about, these
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: guys are they both the highest paid players on their team.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And when you have players who are paid at this
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: level who are not able to contribute due to health issues,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: it's just so damaging to your roster construction as you're
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: trying to build a championship organization. Most teams can't weather
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that storm, and unfortunately, those two teams are weathering it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: on a regular basis. This trio of players seems to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: have more issues staying healthy than most do. Now, there
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: are other truisms about them. They seem to be three
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of the more dynamic playmakers and scorers in the league.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: That's what you hang on to, and you don't want
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: these guys to go somewhere else and perform at the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: level that they're capable of by just merely staying healthy.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's really difficult
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to build a championship roster when this much of your
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: payroll is locked up in somebody who just isn't able
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: to play on a regular basis. And I think you know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: as you look at Charlotte in a league in which
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: two thirds of the teams make the playoffs every year,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: they haven't made it in nine years and it doesn't
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: look like they're making it this year. It's very low
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: odds to miss the playoffs ten consecutive years when two
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: thirds of your league is making it. But part of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: their challenge they have is the fact that their payroll
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: now is a little bit locked up in a player
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: who is not contributing as much as they hope that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: he would.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: The roster, and Charlotte over the past handful of years
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: players have had a number off court issues as well,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: you know, legal issues, injury issues. We saw what happened
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: with Mark Williams last year with the rescinded trade with
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: the LA Lakers had some concerns about Williams back they
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: sent them back to the Hornets. You and I talked
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: about it shortly after he probably wasn't going to be
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: a Hornet long and sure enough he wasn't. Now the
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: challenge is that Charlotte trades him to Phoenix and Mark
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: william he's been relatively healthy for the Sun. So when
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: he's been healthy, he's played very well, you know. So
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: these are the challenges, and I think there's a bigger
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: conversation there for us to have at some point as
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: far as what happens when a rebuild doesn't go perfectly,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Because if it doesn't go perfectly or even you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: some would say, go well, then you've just taken three
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: to five years, say to be patient that, but then
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: you're not coming out of it. You're kind of stuck
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: in this abyss of losing. And one team that does
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: not want to do that's the Memphis Grizzlies. And this
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: is the most fascinating of these three guys to meet that,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: and that is John Morant, still just twenty six years old.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Memphis is eleven and thirteen. They've actually played a lot
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: better lately. They started out four and eleven, but they've
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: got nine and two in their last eleven games. Like
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Trey Young and LaMelo ball Jah has been injured, He's
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: only played in half of Memphis' first twenty four games.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: The challenge that is, he hasn't played well when he's
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: been in the lineup. He's having the worst year of
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: his career shooting career lows from the floor, thirty six
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: percent from the field, sixteen percent from the three point
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: line tracked again, and you and I will continue to
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: harp on this, I think because it's so important as executives.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: The contract that he makes thirty nine point four million
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: this year. He's got two more years left on his deal,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: but he's eligible for an extension this offseason, and it
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: seems pretty clear, at least to me watching from befar,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: that Memphis does not want to give him an extension,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: at least not yet. And that's where the pressure comes
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: in from the player and his agent in particular. So
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: what happens with John Moran. We've seen he and Thomas Eilo,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the new head coach in Memphis, butt heads, including when
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Jaw was taken out of a game late and then
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: bench for disciplinary reasons. But that this is the kind
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: of guy that I think keeps guys like US executive
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: former executives up at night because there's a scenario on
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: which Memphis trades him and just you know, him being gone.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: If they get back, say guys who are less talented
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: but Phil rolls better, the team could They're not a
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: championship contender, but they could be a solid playoff team,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: they could play better as a group. But then there's
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the other scenario in which they trade him, They get
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: pennies on the dollar, and John Moran, in a different
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: an environment, is motivated and explodes. Now he's not as
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: talented as Luca Donsis, but we've seen what Luke has
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: done in LA getting in better shape, leading the Lakers
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: to be one of the very best teams in the
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: NBA and legitimate title contender. That's obviously was a disaster
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: for Dallas. If you're Zach Lyman and the guys in
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: the front office in Memphis, you do not want to
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: make that mistake. You do not want to light a
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: fire under John Morant, trade him for not much and
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: then have him, at twenty six years old, explode somewhere
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: else and get back to that level where he was prior,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: which is one of the best point guards in the NBA.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And R I think you're talking about something that is
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: endemic to every trade we've ever considered in our careers,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: which is there's this thing called the haunt factor, Like,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: what's the chance that this deal could haunt us? This
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: player could go somewhere else and perform exceptionally well, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I think we're leaning into so much analytics, data information
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: to help project what the player is capable of. That's
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the science part. We understand what they're capable of. The
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: art form is understanding what's the likelihood that they do
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: achieve what they're capable of. And I think sometimes we
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: get so hung up in this fear factor of what
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: happens if this guy does well somewhere else when you
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: know it's just not working here. So there's a sense
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of like we want to sell high as best we can.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But sometimes I think as executives what we get lost
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: in is the height is not necessarily his all time high,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: but what is as high realistically today? And so sometimes
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: where we feel like we're not trading at the height
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: except for maybe today's high is the best high he's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: ever going to have again moving forward, and it is
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the right thing to do. So I think these franchises
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: have some very difficult decisions on the horizon for themselves,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: but I can certainly attest in my career we've spent
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about that concept of the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: haunt factor. Ultimately, you have to do what is what
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you feel is best for your franchise, both today and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: moving forward.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: No easy decisions here that if you trade him and
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: he blows up, you get heat for that. If you
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: hang on to him and he underperforms, it's disruptive in
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: your locker room, But then you probably don't want to
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: extend him. Given the off court issues, the immaturity we've seen,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the lack of availability for a number of different reasons.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of damned if you do don't,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: damned if you don't. That that's why Zach Cleman and
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: these gms and presidents get paid the big bucks. But
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: this is a fascinating one to keep an eye on
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: in Memphis because you know, we'll see what happens. But
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think the situation there seems to be getting
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: better on its own. The other night, Joahn Morant, who
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: was out of the lineup, was on the court john
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: with a player on another team during a timeout. It
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: just seems like whatever has happened in Memphis, and this
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: may be unfair to the Grizzlies, but they have not
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: been able to get him to kind of comply with
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: what they're trying to do as far as building a program,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: eliminating distractions, having it be basketball focused and having him
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: be available. Now, can one of the other twenty nine
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: teams do that or not? That remains to be seen.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: But in Memphis, I think you know, to me, I
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: keep an eye on John Morant. I'd give at least
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: a fifty to fifty probability that, if not more, that
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: John Morant is elsewhere. Come February sixth, the day after
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: the trade deadline, do which is coming up in just
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: a few months and ran.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Another subtle point you're making here is Atlanta has performed
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: well without Trey Young. Memphis you could argue, was performing
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: well despite what John Moran is contributing right now. That's
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: giving both their front office but their fans a little
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: taste of what life would like without them. It's not
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: to suggest they're not superstars. They may go perform very
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: well elsewhere, but maybe both those franchises can survive just
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: fine without them. Or we're going to shift our attention
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: when we come back after the break.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: John D. Philippo's going to join us.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: We're going to tap into his twenty six years of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: wisdom of coaching at the college, USFL and NFL levels
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: stay with us on rosters to Rings.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Rosters, to Rings everyone, Ryan McDonough joined
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: as always by Thad Levine and that we have a
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: special guest today. He is John D. Philippo. Longtime fixture
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: in college football, pro football, done just about everything there
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: is to do in football. That Here's John's bio. He
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: was a quarterback at James Madison. Love to get his
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: take on the Dukes. I believe John right the Dukes
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: in the college football Playoff. We'll get into that in
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: a little bit. His coaching resume is extensive. He's coached
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: in college at Notre Dame, Fordham, Columbia, and at San
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Jose State. Most recently, he's been a consultant for the
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Kansas Jayhawks. He's been head coach a couple times in
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: the USFL with the New Orleans Breakers and the Memphis Showboats,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: and his NFL experience is lengthy as well. He's been
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: an assistant coach for the Giants, the Raiders, the Jets,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the Browns, Eagles, Vikings, Jaguars and Bears, and the top
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: all that off at. In twenty eighteen, he was the
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Super Bowl champion with the Philadelphia Eagles, beating my beloved
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: New England Patriots. I know John lived in New England
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: for a long time, so I'm not sure he can
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: go back and visit friends and family there at least
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: probably really shouldn't wear that championship ring if he does.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: But with that long intro, John, welcome to Rosters, to rings.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys having me on. This is a
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: thrill for me.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: No thanks, thanks for joining us.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So let's get right into it.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I think you're known for a lot of things, offensive acumen,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: developing players. You know, start with a kind of a
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: player development question and an evaluation question about the quarterback position.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: You know, in your experience as a guy who's been
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: a quarterback coach in the NFL, been an offensive coordinator
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: in college and the NFL, as you reflect on the
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: guys you work with and the guys you've observed, John,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: what are some of the common traits that the quarterbacks
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: who go on to be extremely successful and maybe even
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: outperform where they're drafted. What are some of the traits
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: that those guys tend to have in common.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's three things that separate the intermedia players from
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: the great ones. In my opinion, that's decision making, timing,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: and accuracy, and whether you're evaluating a player from high
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: school to college or college for the pros. There's two
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: things to me that follow you around, and it's kind
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: of in your DNA as a quarterback, and that's number
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: one is your completion percentage. And when I first entered
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: the NFL, you know, way back in the day, you
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: were looking for sixty two percent or better because teams
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: actually threw the ball down the field all those things.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: Now you're now you want upwards to sixty eight to
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: seventy percent, you know, depending on the system that you
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: know the young man plays in. And so interception percentage
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: and completion percentage, you know, follow you around. Interception percentage
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: back in the day, you want to below two percent,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: but now you want to really below one point five percent,
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: because what does that tell you. That tells you this
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: guy knows where his checkdowns are, This guy knows where
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: he's when he's hot, has to get the ball out.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: It doesn't just tell you those two numbers. In fact,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: it just tells you he knows what's going on on
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: the field, and obviously he can get the ball out
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: and make great decisions, throw on time and throw accurately.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: John let's delve into that from a coaching perspective. So,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: if those are the traits that are most linked to
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: successful core, how do you, as a coach coach those
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: elements into a player.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: That's another great question.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: And there's been one player I'll start off with this,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: There's been one player since I've been in the NFL
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: that his completion percentage has gone up from UH has
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: gone up from college to the pros, and that's Josh Allen.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: But when you watch Josh Allen on tape at Wyoming,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: they were running a drop back under center, play action,
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: throw the ball down the field, okay in hard conditions
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: at times, and laryerbe Wyoming. So each each player's situation
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: context is different and you have to factor that in.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: And guys like Brian Daball and Joe Brady have done
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: a great job with him and and helping him out
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: with those things, but coaching it and it all depends
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: on the player. What type of system did he did
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: he run? I mean, there's some college systems now where
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: there's a right receiver and a left receiver. You don't
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: line up as the Z or the X. There's you know, so,
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: so is it always three by ones in the field,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: Like you start with the base with formations and protections
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: and knowing when you're hot, and then you build from
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: there the actual concept of the play.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: So it can be a painstaking deal.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: And I'm very very leery of, you know, given guys
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: great grades if they don't fit into.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: That decision making, timing and accuracy type of player. John.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: One of the things we were talking about before we
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: started recording that I want you to get into a
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: little bit with our listeners because I think it's fascinating,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: is the difference in staff size between college and NFL teams.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: It was a little bit counterintuitive, I think that and
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I were a little bit surprised by that, and somebody
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: who's worked at every level college, minor league, pro football,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the highest level at the NFL, if you could take
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: us and our listeners inside, what are some of the differences,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: Because to me, it seems like, you know, hearing what
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you said a minute ago, that if you're the head
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: coach of a college program, in a lot of ways,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: you have to be a CEO because there're so many
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: people underneath you that you need to manage and worry about.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: In addition to worrying about the games on the field.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: It was shocking to me the amount of people when
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I went out to the University of Kansas this fall.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: I was out there for three weeks and for training camping.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: The amount of people that were in the building. You know,
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about you got three nutritionists, you've got five
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: strength coaches. You've got you know, mental health people, you know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: to help the players out, you know, which is a
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: big deal on campus nowadays, all kinds of you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: and there's one way coach that's in charge of tracking
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: how many steps and how many hard you know, running
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: reps the receivers got and the whole team got, and
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: so you may, you know, bounce out practice the following day.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: There's all those things that go into it. And and
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: I agree with you, I think college football today would
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: be very hard to be a play caller and not
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: a CEO. I really do. I just think it's very
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of moving parts. Now with fun, you
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: got to be a fundraiser. Now, let's call it what
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: it is. I mean, you are one of the chief
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: fundraisers on campus if you're the head football coach. And
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: so there's a lot of things that are that are
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: pulling at you that I learned a lot from coach
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Leiphole out at Kansas this this fall. Some of the
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: things that he I just observed he had to manage.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, giving your listeners a little bit
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: of a story. As I was telling you guys earlier.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: It started back, you know, around the early twenty tens,
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: twenty eleven, twenty twelve, when I went to go watch
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: AJ mccerrn work out at Alabama and I want to
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: call the director of Football Operations and asking what time the
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: pro day started, and if I could get a hold
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: of AJ and take him out to the dinner of the
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: night before all those things, because he was high on
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: our board where we were drafting a quarterback and there
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: were literally, I think forty eight people listed under the
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: coaching staff. And as you know, like once Alabama does
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: something or somebody in the SEC does something, then all
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: the other SEC schools have to do it, and then
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: you know, it trickles down into the other conferences. So
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: the other thing that the colleges have that the pros
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: aren't privy to is you can have as many coaches
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: now in the NCAAA on the field coaching where if
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: you were what they called an analyst. Okay, at these
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: colleges up until about three or four years ago, you
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: could not coach on the field during practice. You could
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: be in meetings, you could be in walkthroughs, but you
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: had to stand on the sidelines during practice. That's not
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: the case anymore, so you can. I mean Kansas had
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: a O line coach, a assistant O line coach, and
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: a GA. They had three guys working with the offensive line.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: I think that's good personally because you don't just have
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: one guy that's trying to develop fifteen sixteen guys. I mean,
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: they did a great job of breaking them. These guys
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: up in three different groups, and centers, centers and guards
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: are working together, the tackles are working together, working their
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: combination blocks. So for me as an observer, I loved
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: it is from a development standpoint of players, and because
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: everyone's always moving and no one's standing around, and I
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: think that great for the game and development of not
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: only players, but development of young coaches as well.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: I love the way the college model's doing it now
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: and the pros you have some assistant position coaches and
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: those things, but those guys still break down the games
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: and draw the cards and do a lot of those
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: duties as well. So, but for a development piece, I
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: think college football's got it right.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: You know, John resonates what you're saying. With Major League Baseball,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like as if the role of the manager
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: has evolved so much in the last ten years. It
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: used to be that was the guy who kind of
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: set the talent development. You know, he was the chief instructor.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: He was kind of overseeing pitching development, base running, fielding,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: and hitting, the whole strategies, the philosophies. Now they're managing
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: such vast staffs. They're so engaged with the media, talking
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: to ownership and general managers and whatnot, and coaching the
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: coaches and these vast staffs that are growing, they almost
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: don't have time to get on the field with a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: fungo in their hand and hit fly balls to the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: guys and discuss, you know, routes and reads and those
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: sorts of things. And it sounds like you're expressing the
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: same And so I just wanted to ask you this
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: question in the ever evolving NFL, like how much has
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: your roles have changed over the years and how have
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you grown throughout that?
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when I entered the NFL in two thousand and five,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: was with coach Tom Kaughlin at the New York Giants,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: and our staffs were small. He modeled it very similar
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: to an old college staff. Okay, back when coach Cofflin
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: was at Boston College, where you had nine assistant coaches,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: two gas and that was it.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Like when I was a ga Notre Dame.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: We had a GA on offense, we had a GA
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: on defense, we had a GA in recruiting, all right,
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: and we had nine coaches and the.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Head coach and that was it. That was it, okay.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: And so some of the old school people will say, hey,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: you know, it's easier that way because the head coach
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: has to be involved on one side of the ball.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: Just don't have enough people coordinators, excuse me, all coach
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: a position where now in the NFL, no, none of
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: the coordinators coach a position. Like my dad would always
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: ask me, why don't When I was a coordinator, either
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: the Browns, the Jaguars or or the Vikings, why don't
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: you coach the quarterbacks as well?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I said, Dad, there's just there's not enough time.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: There's not enough time in the day for me to
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: go back and watch during the quarterback meetings. I might
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: be in there half the time, but I'm going to
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: watch third down again by myself. I'm going to watch okay,
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: the two minute again by myself, where I don't have
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: you know, eight staff members around me. You know, given
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: every opinion, which is great. I love opinions, but there's
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: times you just need to sit by yourself and say, Okay,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: what's really can we accomplish here? Okay, how are we
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: gonna block Von Miller?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: How are we gonna make sure are we going to
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: move the back over wherever he is so we.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Don't let the best player ruin the game? All right?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: So from my development, I was very lucky.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: I've been around some really good coordinators and head coaches
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: and saw how they did it. And I've had no
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: better person to watch than coach Coughlin. And I think
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: coach Coughlin gets a really like bad rap out there,
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: like he's an unbelievable man, Like the views him as
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: this crusty, like you know, grumpy guy, and he's not
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: at all he I loved it because you knew you
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: were going to be every second of the day. I mean,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: he two days after the season was over, he handed
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: out a calendar until July and there had to be
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: an Act of Congress to get that calendar changed, all right,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: And so you know, I mean, you knew exactly where
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: you were going to be every day, every hour, and
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: I function well in that environment. I don't mind being
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: told what to do. Didn't get my job done. And
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: if you did your job and coach knew you were
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: working hard, there were zero you had zero issues with him,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: zero and so like he was one of the easiest
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: guys to work for because he explained your role and
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: if you did your role at a high level, it
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: was easy. Doesn't mean the work was easy, but there
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: was just no there was no nobs, you know. So
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: that helped me to excuse my development in terms of
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: how I tried to carry myself and get things done
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: throughout being a quality control position, coach coordinator and then
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: it became a head coach in Springley.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, John, what are some of the biggest developments as
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: far as technology sports science? You've been coaching football in
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: some form or fashion for over twenty five years now.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: You mentioned the growth and the staff size, the amount
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of people you have to manage, whether it's you know analytics,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: some of the different things like what has changed from
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: when you came into you know, just starting as a
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: GA or a young assistant coach to today when you're
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: coaching at the pro college level.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: The biggest thing for me is availability of information.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: And what I mean by that is is I mean
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: I got my I got my Kansas computer sitting right
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: here next to me. I can go on this computer
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: and watch any NFL game. I want, any college game.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I want any Spring league game. I want any Division
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: III game, I want Division two one, Double A. I
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: have every single game that was played this fall computer
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: that's sitting next to me. I can go watch Coastal
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Carolina if I want. And just the amount of information
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: that's available, because really, as a coach, you really have
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: to make sure you understand from a time standpoint, what's important.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: What can we really get.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Accomplished in this amount of time that is not going
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: to veer us off the direction of who we are
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: as a team as an offense, as a defense.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Where what can help us get better? You know? And
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I forgot.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: I saw a quote on Twitter the other x now
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: the other day of a coach saying, you know, I
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: don't want an offensive court and just goes and grabs plays.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: I want it to come from what we do and
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: we know we're good at And I think that's that's
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: really good. I think you're always looking to change and
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: to reinvent yourself a little bit, you know, over the
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: course of the offseason. I do think you have to
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: not reinvent yourself, but I do think you have to
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: bring in fresh ideas that the opposition hasn't seen and
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: prepared for to get better and to keep evolving. But
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: the amount of information that you have at your fingertips
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: has been the biggest thing that's changed in football.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: John John Douve Tilling, I thought I'd be curious your
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: thoughts as an offensive coordinator how much of a game
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: is actually scripted versus how much are you adjusting real
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: time to what you're seeing and how the defenses adjusted
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: I could go on this. I could go on this
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: all day long. Okay, And that's a great question.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: From when I was a coordinator, we had our first fifteen,
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: all right, fifteen plays some places I've been, we had
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: a second fifteen all right now that everyone thinks that's
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: what you call no matter what that's really not the case.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Because let's just say you defer right, and you kick
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: the ball off to your opposition, right, they get two
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: first downs and all of a sudden they punt. Okay,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: in your back up inside your own five, all right,
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: and you know you're backed up, so you go to
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: your backed up menu, all right. So it's it's a guide. Now,
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: if we say we get the ball first, and got
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: the ball in the twenty eight yard line, we know
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: exactly what play we're running first, Okay, So it depends
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: on the position of the game that you're in.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I think this is why.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: And I'm not, guys, I'm not some crusty you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: I'm not trying to say I'm some crusty old fart
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: or whatever like that. But I think when you see
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: some of these younger coordinators that haven't done it very
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: much before, you'll see a great first drive and then
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: you'll see the offense really tend to sputter a little bit, okay,
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: because I just that comes with experience, It just does.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: And understanding how a team what you see on film
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: all the time, you got to understand when you're calling
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: the game, how does the team view you?
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: All Right? Just because they played quarters coverage in the red.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Zone against the Baltimore Ravens, they may play us in
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: man right, because they may view us differently. We have
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: no idea how the opponent views us, all right, so
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: we're not in their meetings.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: So you have to be able to just unfly all
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: of a sudden.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: You got to have some man beaters and at the
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: end of the day, you got to have your staples
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: on there. Okay, these are day one training camp staples
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: that we can run in our sleep. Right, we can
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: run Dragon Lion in our sleep. We can run z drive,
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: shallow Cross, we can we can run those in our
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: sleep without even having to practice them because we've hit
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: those so many times throughout the course of the spring
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: and training camp, this and that. So you've got to
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: have small coverage meters ready to roll in case the
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: defense is some blitz protection plays that are max protection
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: that you know, if the crap's hit in the fan
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: and and you're getting their blitz in the crap.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Aut of you, you've got to be able to adjust.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: So I think that and that just takes experience, and honestly,
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: it gets taken getting knocked on your ass. It really does,
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: and I'm not sure you're allowed to say that on
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: this podcast. I apologize if I offended anybody. It takes
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: getting knocked down a couple times and understand we were
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: not prepared for that and being able to look in
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: the mirror and say, yes, we need to be better there. Okay,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: case in point, my first year in Philadelphia, we're playing
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: in New York, all right, and all of a.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Sudden, Spags was the defensive coordinators.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: Now the defensive coordinator in Kansas City will go down
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: as one of the all time great defensive coordinators in
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: NFL history.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, it was cover.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: Zero, cover zero, cover zero, covers zero, which means they're
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: bringing the house, all right, And I don't want to
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: say we weren't ready. We weren't ready for the amount
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: that was going to come, all right, was going to
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: that was gonna they were gonna bring. And from that
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: day on we had a we tightened up our cover
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: zero plan and it helped us win the Super Bowl.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: So we had to look in the mirror as a
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: coaching staff saying that throwing that ball in the end
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: zone on the last play of the game for an
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: incompletion with a quarterback, I thoelve was back foot. That
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: wasn't good enough, right, that wasn't solid enough all right,
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: And through the leadership of Frank Reich and Doug Peterson
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: and others, we were able to look ourselves in the
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: mirror and say we need to be better there, and
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: we work and it helped us win win a world championship.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: John.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: One of the things that that and I talked about
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: a lot is the jobs are great working in pro
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: sports as a general manager, as a head coach, as
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: a coordinator. But I think what the public perception can
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: be of what the job is versus what it actually
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: is when you're doing the job can be quite different.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: And so I'd love to get your take on it.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: We've heard about, you know, NFL coaches famously basically living
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: at the practice facility, sleeping at the office. You have
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: extensive NFL experience. What was it like in your time
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: there and what did you observe as far as maybe
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: the range, you know, especially on the extremes guys that
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: you know, anybody able to do it with balance or
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: was the norm you know, sleeping at the office or
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: burning the midnight oil for most of the staff you
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: worked with.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: I review I've slept at the office twice in twenty
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: some years now. I went home to take a bunch
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: of two and a half hour naps. Okay, but I
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: needed mentally, I needed to get I needed this. My
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: mind needed to exit the building, all right. So you know,
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: I go back to Coach Cofflin. Coach Coughlin spent the
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: night at the office every Tuesday and Wednesday night and
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: then was home at like eleven o'clock.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: This is how crazy we are. I have one daughter.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: She's five, all right, and she was born in Chicago.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: When I was the quarterback coach of the Bears, I
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: had my wife induced on a player's day off so
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: I didn't have to miss practice. Okay, So I'm not saying.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying I'm proud of that moment. I'm not
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: saying I would do it again. I probably would, but
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying, you know, that's kind of how it is.
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: And you don't miss practice and you and you you're
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: there early, and you know there's a drawback to it it. Yes,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: are we financially compensated very very well? Absolutely? Is there
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: a price to pay? Absolutely? And you have to have
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: a willing partner if you're in it and you're married,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: you have to you know there you're not gonna be
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: home a lot, You're gonna miss a lot of things.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: I'll just go back to my last stop in the NFL.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I worked for a great boss in
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Matt Naggie.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's no better guy in the NFL than
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: Matt Naggie is a person, and he was a fantastic
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: football coach.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: We would go home at midnight on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: was two thirty in the morning, Thursday was midnight, and
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: Friday I saw my daughter awake for half an hour.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: My wife at the time would keep her awake her bedtime.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: She was a toddler, obviously she was born there. Her
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: bedtime was six o'clock, you know, And I used to
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: get home to be home for six o'clock. We called
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: that date night. Friday night was date night, so I
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: got the rock her to sleep for half an hour. Remember,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: my wife at the time would let.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Me bruptil six thirty. So I go to see her
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: half an hour a week away.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying what was me and all that,
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: but that's just the reality of what it is. And
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: it's hard. It's very hard.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: As somebody who got married during the All Star break
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and went on a honeymoon in the off season, I
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: can mildly relate to what you're talking about. It is
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: amazing the sacrifices we make and we just deem normal.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, the people who support us in our
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: lives are significant others, really are so exceptionally vital to
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: our successes because what they're they're not along for a
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: journey that is at all normal whatsoever, and they're weathering
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of storms. John, I wanted to take you
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: fast forward to twenty seventeen. You're working for the Philadelphia Eagles.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: After in Week thirteen, you guys suffer a devastating injury,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Carson Wentz goes down. Can you tell us, like, how
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: did your team process that in the moment. It's a
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: tremendous adversity to face at that time, and how did
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: you lead you to ultimately winning the Super Bowl that season?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a hard day to say the least.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, Carson was going to probably be the unanitous
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: m VP of the league that year. He was having
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: a tremendous year. Our team was playing very, very well,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: and I know Eagles fans won't forget, but for your
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: listeners out there that aren't. We clinched the NFC East
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: that night too, And I've been on some teams that
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: have clinched the division before where.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: It's very jovial to say the least happy.
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: Right, You could you could hear you could hear a
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: pin drop in that locker room. And I remember I
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: called my dad and I said, you know, and he's
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: like house Carson.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I said, Dad, it's not good. It's it's not good.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: When he when first, when the jury first happened, Carson
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: had a deep fibrus going into that game. And when
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: he got hit, I I thought maybe the defender hit
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: him on the thigh and just and kind of reaggravated
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: that deep thigh brus and and obviously it wasn't.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Then I saw the replay. I was up in the
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: box for the game.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I saw the replay and I saw was a knee
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: buckle and and that's that's never good. And to his credit,
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: stayed in there and threw a touchdown pass and with
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: a torn a cl on fourth down. I mean, tough
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: son of a gun. And so anyway, I told my
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: father and and I said, Dad, I'm going to give
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: myself until the plane lands and in Philadelphia to feel bad.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: I said, But once the plane lands, I said, I'll
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: be doing Nick nick foles at the service if I
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: don't give him one hundred percent of what I got.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: And you know, and that's what I did.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: And felt horrible for Carson. H horrible for him, and.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of things that you know
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: that went on there, and I just felt horrible for him.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: But our team rallied and around Nick, and Nick Nick
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: played unbelievable in the Super Bowl.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: A lot of times you hear next man up put
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: as an executive or head coach, you're probably thinking, well,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: we're screwed. The next next guy is not very good.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: You guys are Philly one of the one of the
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: groups that actually did it in one with the next
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: guy up a testament to you, Doug Peterson and the
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: staff there. John, I want to get your take on
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: something that I think is really impactful this year in
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: the NFL. That's quarterbacks who are still relatively young, some
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: would say in their prime at least on the aging scale,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: with their second or sometimes third or fourth team starting
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: to figure it out, and so, you know, let me
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: give you a few names, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Baker Mayfield.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: How do you, you know, explain those guys, you know,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: playing a lot better with their second, third, fourth team
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: than they did with their first team. And then when
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: you're with an organization, that seems like an extremely difficult
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: decision because not everybody's gonna make it. Sometimes a player
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: may do better somewhere else than with your club. Like,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: how do you decide when's the right time? You don't
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: want to be too early or too late, but when's
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: the right time to move on from a player knowing
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: that if he's young and talented, you may really hit
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: it and take off somewhere else.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: That's a hard that's a hard one. And those are
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: organizational decisions, and you've had to make a bunch of
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: those decisions as well in your time. You know, in
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: the NBA, those are hard because you put a lot
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: of draft stock and capital and time and effort into
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: a player like that. And you know, I'm a big
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: believer in this is the quarterbacks situation, all right. Where
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: he gets drafted is just as big a factor as
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: the player, or almost as big. Obviously, the young man
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: has to be talented, all right, and has to be
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: great decision maker, timing accuracy like we've talked about, has
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: to have physical traits, right, has to have the elite
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: in at least one trait right where you you watch
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: him and you're like, wow, okay, he's elite in that.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: So when you know, I think I'll give Carson Wentz
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: an example, all right, And I'm not saying this is
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: the reason Carson was going to be the MVP, okay,
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: but I think it didn't hurt him. I think he
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: had three quarterback really guys that understood the quarterback position
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: around him and at all levels, the head coach, the
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: offensive coordinator, and his direct position coach.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: I really think that that helped Carson. The other thing, okay,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: that we were also very very good on the offensive line,
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: all right, and Jeff Stoutlin, who's still at the Eagles,
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: is as good as they.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Come from an offensive line coach standpoint. So, now here's
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: a physical, gifted, unbelievably.
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Physically gifted player, right that has a head coach, a general,
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: an offense coordinator, and his position coach that are all
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: have been proven quarterback developers. Two of them played at
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: the highest level, right, not myself, and you have you
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: can protect him. You got a chance, you got a chance.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: So you know, you you look at guys that you've mentioned,
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: Sam Darnold right at the New York Jets. The New
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: York Jets were not built like the Philadelphia Eagles when
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: he was a rookie. There, same thing with Baker Mayfield. Okay.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: You know Daniel Jones had an up and down situation
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: in New York, right, So I think the situation and
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: who's around that young man has a huge piece in
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: what goes on there.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: I really do.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it was Doug's first time as
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: a head coach, but he had been a coordinator, played
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: in the league. Frank had been a coordinator okay in
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: the league and played in the league. I had been
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: a coordinator in the league and not playing in the league,
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: but played divisional college football. And I just think that
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: when Carson had a question or was confused by something,
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: there was a perspective, three good perspectives for him.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Tolena.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: You know, John, one thing I'm curious to is to
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: pick your brain on is as you've talked about these
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: staffs growing so much like what we saw in baseball
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: is they also were growing, and they became so specialized.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: We asked each coach to handle a very small window
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: of talent development and execution. How much collaboration takes place
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: so in baseball. Occasionally, and these were on the championship
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: teams I worked for, we would have the pitching coach
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: come and talk to our hitters and tell them exactly
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: how our pitchers would pitch them, so that they would
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: reveal kind of like their holes. Similarly, we would have
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: our hitters go talk to the pitchers and say, hey,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: this is what I'd look for if I was facing
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: off against you. They got better organically from talking to
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: each other. How much in your roles, which were primarily
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: on the offensive side, were you picking the brains of
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: the defensive coaches?
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: I love that that they did that. By the way,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: there's not enough that goes on in football. There's not enough.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: That there's some, but there's not enough. Usually you take
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: two or three days in spring, like either right before
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: OTAs or after OTAs, and you say, okay, let's break
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: each other down. Let's take six games from last year,
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: and here's how we would attack you. And we would
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: tell the defense. Here's how we would attack you, Like,
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: here's who we view is a really good corner or not.
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: Or we keep you in base because your third linebacker
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: is way worse than our starting nickel.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. So we try to keep
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: you in base and spread you out, you know all
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: those things.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: I think that's so. I think it's unbelievably helpful. And
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: there's not enough that goes on in football. You know,
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: there's been some spots that we've used that in other
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: places we did. Mike Petton, who's now in Minnesota with
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: Kevin O'Connell, was big on that. He was big on collaboration,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: like and really I've never been in another spot where
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: like he met with the special every every Tuesday at dinner.
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: After we got done, you know, not done, but finished
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: the pre limit the next opponent, Mike Petton would bring
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: all three coordinators in and say, Okay, how do we
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: need to play this game to win?
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: And I thought it was a very productive meeting, Like
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: give you a case in point. So we go to
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: play the Baltimore Ravens and we were out. We're out matched,
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: like we just are. And I said, coach, I said
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: this is as good a run teams as there is.
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: I said, you know, I'm stopping the run. I'm like,
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: we may have to throw it forty times to beat
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: these guys, you know. And and I like our matchups
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: on the outside. I don't think they're great at corner. Okay,
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're great at safety. I said, I
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: think we match up well there, but we do not
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: match up well with them inside.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: And he was like great.
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: So then we the defense knew what our our thought
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: process was. We knew what the defense was going to
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: have to do to attack them. We knew these guys
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: like the hole on the ball. Well, then that gives
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: us a chance. Hey, guys, this may be a normally
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: you get eleven possessions in an NFL game, This may
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: be a eight or nine or ten, you know, eight
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: or nine possession game for us. So we need to
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: make sure if we take a shot at least once
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: a quarter, you know, to try to get some points
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: on the boards and field position.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: So I thought coach Petton did a great job with that.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: And then you know, just to that point, I don't
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: know if the record's still there, but Josh McCown was
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: thirty six for fifty one that day, I think four
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty seven yards.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: We won the game thirty three thirty in overtime.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Well, he's Gion di Filippo. That's Dad Levine coming back
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: on Rosters to Rings. We're gonna ask John to stick
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: with us and answer questions from you the listener. I
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: will get into football, baseball, basketball and everything beyond for
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Dad Levine. Ryan McDonough, stay with us. We'll be right
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: back after this on Rosters the Rank.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings alongside Ryan McDonough. John
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: d Philippo's kind enough to join us producer. Why it
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: has sharpened his ginsu knives and he says he's going
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: to bring the thunder today. So why what do we
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: have from our listeners today?
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: All right, guys, going to get right into it with
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: maybe the biggest story of the weekend. What are your
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: thoughts on Notre Dame and other teams electing not to
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: play in their bowl games. This one's from Johnny in Atlanta.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: Well, Johnny, it's a hard one because as a coach,
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: I'd want to play. And for one reason is because
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: you get an extra spring practice, you get fifteen extra
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: practices and for the majority of those, like I would
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: have scrimmages. For the freshmen that aren't playing, I mean,
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: I'd have live periods. Okay, I'd go back, and we're
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: spending three days on just fundamentals. We're not even getting
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: together and te we are going to reinforce our fundamentals,
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: you know, and what we teach and day on a
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: training camp, you know, the things that are important and
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: important to winning. So from a coaching standpoint, that's got
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: to be an unbelievably tough deal from a development coaching standpoint,
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: and not play in those games. But unfortunately, in today's world,
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: that's the way it is with the with the transfer
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: portal and all those guys that you don't know who
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: you're going to have available, Guys that are going into
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: the draft that you know would opt out anyway unless
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: they're playing for the for the you know, for the in.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: The college football playoff. I get it.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: As an evolving person, you have to get it, You're
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: forced to get it, but it doesn't mean you have
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: to agree with it.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: I have a follow up question based off the listener
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: question that Johnny just asked for. John john is somebody
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: who played quarterback at James Madison and has coached at
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: all levels and pro and in college in particular. What
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: are your thoughts on the two non major teams making
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: it this year, James Madison and Tulane. I believe for
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: the last two teams into the field, Notre Dame. You know,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: obviously it's blown up and become a huge issue, maybe
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: the biggest issue across sports, Fighting Irish not making the field.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that? But I think it's
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: it's easy for a majority of the people who have
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: not seen James Madison or Tulane and don't know how
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: good or bad those guys are. Frankly, what level can
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: they play? Out's a mystery to most even pretty significant
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: college football fans. So I think the default is well,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: of course Notre Dame should be in. But as somebody
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: who's you know, familiar with all levels of football, what
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: are your thoughts on those two teams being in and
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: the Fighting Irish being left out?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: First off, I'm gonna give my Ala matters some pub
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: because it's a fantastic for them making the.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: College football playoff.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, we've only been a division in my in
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: our worlds, it's Division one A now they call it
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: FBS and f CS is old one double A. Well
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: when I played, we're FCS one double A football. Okay,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: and for us, for our school and our alumni based
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: only you haven't been playing with the big boys for
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: four years and making the college football Playoff that this
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: doesn't happen by accident. Uh. It starts at the top
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: without the leadership of our university and trickling on down
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: to you know, our athletic directors in the past, our
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: head coaches in the past, and see our players guys
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: in past and present that have built what James Madison is.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: And I'm going to give a pub to our university.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: Our university is legitimately a happy place. It's one of
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: the happiest places I've ever been. Like, kids love going
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: to school there, and it's a beautiful part of the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: country right in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. It's an
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: unbelievable place. I fell in love with it the first
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: time I knew I was going to sign my scholarship
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: to go there, the day I stepped on campus.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: That's how that's how much I think of that university.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: Okay, let's take that out of it, all right, and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: tak college football likes what we think is best for
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: college football. There's no doubt that Notre Dame is one
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: of the top twelve teams in the country. Okay, that's it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: You're not being real with yourself in my opinion if
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: you don't think that Notre Dame is one of the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: top twelve teams in the country. That being said, you know,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: I don't think Tulane and James Madison should apologize for
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: anything because that's the way the rules are. And if
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: you want the rules changed, then change them. And I've
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: read up on some things where there might be some
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: anti trust type of litigation if that did happen, where
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: you do keep the lower non what they call it
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: now power for conferences, you know, keep those guys out
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: of it. I don't know all that. I'm a coach,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: so I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: that is. But it's a shame that Notre Dame is
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: not a.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Part of it.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: But like I said, I don't think too Lane or
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: JMU should apologize because of what the rules have been
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: sent have been set. And I'll be honest with you,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: I'm a Notre Dame Homer a little bit because I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: gad there. I consider myself a Subway alumnis, so it
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: pains me that Notre Dame is not in the college
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: football Playoff.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: All Right, I coached there. I love it.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: I love everything about Notre Dame. I think it's God
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: country Notre Dame. I'm all for that, Okay. And my
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: dad is ad for fourteen years at Boston College, so
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: I'm sure he's probably listening into this throwing up in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: his mouth. But that being said, you know, it's just
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: the way the rules are set.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I think John Brooke that down perfectly from a football standpoint.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: My only thing I would add is I think in
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: life you try to limit the things that you can regret,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and I think that the Notre Dame football program may
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: be muddying the waters between their principles and spite. In
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: terms of making this decision, we talked about the kids
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: who were going on to the pros, but there are
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of kids on that team who may never
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: get the chance to play another football game, and they
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: deserve a bowl game. Their parents deserve to watch them
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: in a bowl game, and I think it's unfortunate they
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: won't be participating.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Everything you said right there is one hundred percent fair.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent fair. All right.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: Next question is from Larry that can you take us
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: through a day in the life at the MLB Winter
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: Meetings for a general manager?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Sure, Larry. So the Winter Meetings are going on right
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: now in Orlando. It's a time in which all thirty
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: teams are represented. You bring about fifteen to twenty of
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: your trusted advisors that spans your coaching staff, your front
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: office group, your analytics group, your scouts in your player
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: development guys, and you all sit up in a suite
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: and you discuss planning for the upcoming season, and you're
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: trying to build out your roster. When I started my career,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: this was a time where I was working for the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Colorado Rockies. Dan O'Dowd would assign me, You'd give me
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the rooming list for all the other twenty nine general managers,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and I had to call each of their rooms and
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: set up a time to meet with them on behalf
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: of Dan and Dan would take his chief advisors and
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: they would go sit down and have conversations. Sometimes I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: was allowed to participate in those conversations. Things have changed
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit now, with all the technological advancements, most
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: of those conversations are taking place before we get to
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: the meetings. Oftentimes, even at the meetings, those are done
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: by phone or by text. There's much less actually sitting
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: down and having those types of conversations, but that does
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: still happen from time to time. In addition to the
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: front office executives, you have all the media's there. Everyone
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: who is searching for a job for the upcoming season
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: is there, So as you walk through the it is
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: an absolute gauntlet. You are just crushed by members of
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: the media or trying to get a rumor out of you,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: or you're somebody who has a job hunter who is
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: aspiring to get into the game would love to have
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: ten minutes with you. So it's a full contact sport
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: for about four days.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: It is a wonderful time of fellowship. You know. One
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: thing I'm sure these two guys could attest to too.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Is during the game we're competing with the guys who
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: are in our spots for other teams. But outside of that,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of camaraderie. So it's an opportunity to
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: see people you don't necessarily get to see that often
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: face to face, maybe break bread, have a cocktail with
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: them at night, and just really understand that the brotherhood
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: that is working in professional sports, and so that's part
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: of the experience as well. I think Major League Baseball
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: would love to have a lot of trades made during
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: this time, a lot of free agent signings. They're agents
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: all over the place there. They're players who come and
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: visit and they're sitting down and meeting with clubs. Deals
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: are consummated there. We had a few today, but Major
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: League Baseball would love it to be flooded for the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: tiredty of the winter meetings in the entire offseason for
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: that matter. Sounds like a lot of fun, all right.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Next question is from Jake and Scottsdale. With Kyler Murray
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: out for the year with a foot injury, where did
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals go from here?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: I think that they have to First off, they have
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: to decide, you know, which direction they're going in. I think,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: you know, from a coaching standpoint, at the end of
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: the season, I don't cheer for anyone to get let go,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: but that's you know, you hear what you hear, and
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: so I don't want anyone to ever get fired. But
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: I think that's what they need to figure out first.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: And and you know, I it sounds like to me
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: a little bit what we talked about earlier, that it
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: might be a mutual partying for both sides to move on,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: and it might.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Be better off for for both sides.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: And I wish Kyler all the best if he stays
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: in Arizona, and if he moves on, I think he's
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: a tremendous, tremendous talent.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for me as somebody who lived in Arizona, and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: I think it was still running the Suns when Kyler
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: Murray was drafted or you know, certainly lived in the
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: valley at that time. I think it's going to be
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: a case of the what ifs We saw the talent,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: you know, probably six or so years ago now, he
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: was maybe the best player in the NBA, NFL. Excuse me,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: for the first half of the season, he looked like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: the MVP. He was rolling, the team was rolling. They
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: fell off since then, over the last handful of years,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: they've had a coaching change, a GM change, a new
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: regime in Arizona. And that's always the question. Pat, you
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: and I have talked about this a little bit off air,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: but once you go into a rebuild and this is
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: year three now, I believe with the new regime and
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: it's not working as you'd hoped. Obviously that the new
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: relatively new head coach and GM say, we just need
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: some more time, you know, give us more time to
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: see this through what we started. The owner often can
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: have difficult decisions because we've seen a number of franchises
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: where it's rebuild after rebuild. They kind of go from
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: one to the next and bring in a new you know,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: front of front office, new coach, but the team still
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: underperformed for a number of years. So that's why, like
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: everything else, you have to be so precise with your rebuild.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: And to me, the most important position in the NFL
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: is the quarterback position. It looked like they had their
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: guy in Kyler Murray, and unfortunately now I agree with
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: what John said, if Kyler Murray plays well as an
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: NFL quarterback, it looks like it's not going to be
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: as an Arizona Cardinals. So a number of huge decisions,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: maybe the three biggest decisions an owner has to make
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: this offseason. What do you do with the head coach,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: what do you do with the GM, and what do
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: you do with your quarterback. That's what Michael Bidwell, the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: owner in Arizona, needs to figure out. And I don't
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: see any answer easy answers to that because the team
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: has underperformed, and unfortunately they've been underperforming now for a
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: number of years.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: Quick NBA question for you, Ryan, This one's from Sam
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: and Connecticut. How real do you think Boston's strong start
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: to the season is and could the possibility of a
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 5: Tatum return influence their decision making as the year unfolds.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: I think even the most optimistic Celtics fan probably didn't
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: see the team playing as well as it has to
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: this point. I believe the third in the Eastern Conference,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: we heard a lot about a gap year, and it
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: would have been easy to take a gap yere. Frankly,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: Jason Tatum, their superstar, goes down in the second round
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: of the playoffs, they lose to the Knicks. They then,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: for financial reasons and competitive reasons, have to shed a
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: bunch of payroll. So some of the stalwarts off of
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: that championship team, which was only a year and a
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: half ago at this point, but guys like Drew Holliday,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: Kristaps Porzingis are gone, so as I looked at the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: Celtics roster this offseason. I had significant questions about their
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: front line, in particular because in addition to porzingis Al
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: Horford's gone. Robert Williams, who was there before is gone.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: So certainly their backcourt and the wing they're good enough,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: especially with a healthy Jason Tatum. But on the front court,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: that's not a championship caliber roster. But you know, n
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: maias Kate has played out of his mind. And I
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: think the Tatum thing is fascinating to me because the
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: Eastern Conference is wide open that and I talked about
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: it in the first segment. Cleveland Cavaliers, one of the favorites,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: if not the favorite, in the East, is really underperformed
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: and it looks like Jason Tatum's way ahead of schedule.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: And these are the tough guys decisions. Organizationally, you guys
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: know that. But if a player's ready and he's pushing
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: to go and the team is better than anticipated, there's
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: that external pressure say, well, if you just had Jason Tatum,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: he's one of the top five players in the league,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: we could win the Eastern Conference and play for a championship.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: But so there's the balance between having him be ready
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: and be available when he's healthy and not pushing him
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: out there too soon. Brad Stevens is as good as
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: any I think they'll be cautious and conservative, but by
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: all accounts out of Boston, Tatum's way ahead of schedule,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: and it does seem like there's a decent chance, if
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: not a significant chance, that he plays for the Celtics
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: this season on a team that's vastly outperformed what most
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: people thought they would do.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: And Ryan another thing that we've talked about in a
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: previous episode, they also had to change in ownership during
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: this transition, you know, because one thing, as you're juxtaposing
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: your guys conversation about Arizona versus the Boston Celtics, I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: don't want to oversimplify things, but it does seem as
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: if there's just this sense of like a championship pedigree
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: that prevails throughout your organization, and when you're changing your
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: GM and your head coach with consistency, and when you
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily have that in the locker room, it shows
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: up with a lot of volatility and inconsistencies. But what
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Boston has done with Stevens and Missoula is you have
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: a very strong character and continuity at the leadership level.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: And then even though they made some changes in the personnel,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: it seems as if they still have that championship pedigree
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: in the locker room. Those are things we're hunting for
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: as executives. It's really tough to find. When you have it,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: you want to keep it for as long as you
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: possibly can, because the teams that don't are the teams
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: that are struggling and they're trying to rebuild for the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: second and third iteration, and we see those teams that
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: cross all of our professional sports.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: All right, last one, we had some breaking news come
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: in while we were recording. John, I think you could
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: take this one. But just any thoughts on the Colts
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: signing Philip Rivers. We talked about their remaining schedule coming up,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: the Seahawks, the forty nine Ers, the Jaguars, and the Texan.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Some scary defenses and there.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: Real scary, real scary in tough places to play on
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: the road. Yeah, that's a shaker to me, you know.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: And if there's anybody that can get it done, it's
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: Philip Rivers. I mean, he is one of the most
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: competitive tough guys that I've ever competed against, and then
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: just a tremendous player. And I spent years out in
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: the AFC West and when they were the San Diego
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: Chargers having to play them, it was five years at
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: the Open Raiders and obviously had to play them twice
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: a year. There's no better competitor than Philip Rivers from
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: a tough guy standpoint. I mean, when he had to
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: play on a torny ACL and I think it was
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: in the AFC Championship in Indianapolis, I mean, that just
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: shows you what type of.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: Player he is.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I would assume that he stayed in somewhat
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: good shape. And I know he has a pass with
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: with Shane Stikeen, you know, out there in India and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: with the Chargers, so it shouldn't be too much of
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: a learning concept for him.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I mean, if
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: you're not doing it.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: Every single day in terms of your drops and your footwork,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: and you're not doing a full speed it's tremendously hard.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: Philip Rivers trying to be one of the first grandfathers
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: to win an NFL game. I believe his oldest child
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: just recently had a kid, so legitimately, even though he's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: in his mid forty, C is a grandpa. We'll see
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: if you can turn around the cold season. We'd like
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: to thank John D. Philippo for joining us today for
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: Thad Levine. I am Ryan McDonough. Join us next week
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: and every week right here on Rosters Drink.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: Please join me host bad Levine, Ryan McDonough and other
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: general managers every week for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.