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How to Turn Social Media Followers into Paying Customers (Without Chasing Virality) · Plan Like A Boss | Planning, Productivity, and Strategy for Entrepreneurs

• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You think of Disney and they're not selling a vacation to you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're selling a feeling of like childhood and magic and nostalgia.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is really what I have been trying to teach my clients the most lately of what is that feeling that you're trying to sell to them, and then the problem that you solve by meeting them in that feeling and then getting them into that.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Plan Like a Boss.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Tanya Lawson, and today I am so excited to be here with Jamie Coleman.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie is a digital marketing leader and the founder of Buy Jamie Social, a strategy company focused on helping creators and brands grow through intentional content, strong positioning, and data-driven decision making.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Her work centers on helping creators move beyond surface level growth and build content ecosystems that convert.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie is known for her direct and strategic approach, and she challenges the idea that going viral is the goal.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, focusing on building sustainable growth through clarity, consistency, and conversion.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie, welcome to the show.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to have you here.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that I talked to you beforehand, and we're going to talk a little bit about TikTok today, because TikTok is insane at the moment, but really social media in general.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: But first, I always like to ask all my guests to tell us their story, how they got here, because I think how we got to where we are now is so important and it really shapes us into what we are today.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us, how did you get into this business?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have actually been working in the digital media space for over 10 years.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I started in sports production, making television and network specials, and then I went into environmental communications, and then I went on to um AI infrastructure communications, and through all of that, uh have carried social media with me.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the uh summer of 2025, I actually went ahead and launched my own social media strategy agency by Jamie Social.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I have been doing this for a very long time.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is a passion of mine to teach other people how to be successful with organic social media, and that is kind of how we got here today.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's great.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now I see my my audience is primarily solopreneurs and entrepreneurs with small teams.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I see so many of them out there posting consistently for months or even years.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: They follow all the trends, they show up every day like they're told to.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are getting thousands of views, but they all complain that no matter what they do, it isn't turning into real growth.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And as someone who's been pretty successful in social media, what do you think is going on here?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I genuinely think that we are in an age of social media now where authentic storytelling is what's actually resonating with people.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a business owner or an entrepreneur in any sense that you're using social media to push a business forward, we can no longer just make content when we're sitting saying, Oh, and look at this product that I created and you should buy it, and it's so amazing, or look at this movement, or look at this business that I've started.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It really has to be an emotional marketing tactic.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you have got to find that thing that latches onto them and makes them actually want to become part of your world or part of your movement.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're selling a product, what are you actually solving with that product that people need?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the content we need to be making.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you're creating something that's more so education focused, what are the pain points that people have that you can meet them there and make content about that?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that we're seeing this shift because overconsumption is a really big thing, and and you know, digital marketing and selling is a really big thing.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so people are really tired of feeling sold to.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead, what they want is that connection, and then they become part of your ecosystem that way.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're right, there's there's a lot of people out there selling with AI, there is so much of the exact same comment popping up, or not comment, content, the exact same content popping up.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And business coaches in the past have told me too that you need to sell every single day.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Be selling in your stories every single day, be selling in your reels and your TikToks every single day.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you're saying that has changed.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you from firsthand with my own business that that is just not the way that it works anymore.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I work with people across all industries, honestly, from like I said, selling a project product to doing something education focused to creating some sort of movement.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And genuinely the through line in all of that is you're really not focused on selling the product anymore.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we see this even with larger brands.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you think of like Nike, for example, the first thing in your head is not a tennis shoe.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It usually is athleticism or sports or, you know, um like the just do-it movement.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think of like Patagonia, for example, you think of like hiking and endurance, and you don't necessarily think of like a jacket or a backpack or something like that, you know, and you think of Disney and they're not selling a vacation to you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're selling a feeling of like childhood and magic and nostalgia.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is really what I have been trying to teach my clients the most lately of what is that feeling that you're trying to sell to them, and then the problem that you solve by meeting them in that feeling and then getting them into that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that the best tactic is to sell, sell, sell, sell.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually how you push people away now.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's old school.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Time to move on.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with that in mind, how should creators and brands be thinking differently about content in today's landscape?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you've already said storytelling, but are we focusing more on video?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Are we talking talking about static images?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are we talking about carousel posts?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like what is successful today?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it really depends on the platform that you're using, truly.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: They are all different and they act different.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can say across the board, we do know short form video still reigns supreme.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So typically, short form video will still be the most engaging, regardless of where you're posting it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a few things we know.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram is still very community focused.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually have seen a surge in Instagram success coming from carousels and static images, especially with some of the updates that the app has made.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can now do individual um captions for individual videos or um photos in a carousel.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So each photo in a carousel can have its own caption versus one caption for all.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that these platforms are still evolving with that content in mind, not necessarily video format.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas we know on TikTok, video format will still reign supreme, Instagram uh reels, trial reels are popular, YouTube shorts are popular.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it genuinely depends where you're posting it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the beauty in that is that regardless of what kind of content you enjoy making, there is a platform for that content.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now you mentioned trial reels.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've I've heard people on the fence about it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Some people think they're awesome, some people think that they're a waste of time.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: What is your viewpoint on trial reels?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that trial reels are awesome.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they are such a great opportunity to essentially be a testing ground or a playground for your content.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way that trial reels works is it goes out to a totally cold audience.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So those are not people that have ever interacted with your content.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: They might not even be searching those topics or the things you're posting about.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's essentially being fed to somebody who's never even been looking for or a part of the kind of content that you're making.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so to me, the data that we can collect from that really tells us a lot of okay, was this actually captivating?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Was this a good topic?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did it start right off the bat or was it a little too slow based on watch time and things like that?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's exciting to have an opportunity like that to have a playground to test content before it lives on your page permanently.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really an opportunity to try different formats, try different video types without making your regular page kind of look like a mess with all of these trial reels.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now you talk about um moving beyond virality, and anybody can make a post go viral.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I literally can post a picture of my cat with a head stuck with a head stuck in a bag, and it's gonna go viral.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's gonna like it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: But that has nothing to do with my business.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the deeper difference between getting attention and actually having meaningful business growth through social media?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that question.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're totally correct.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Virality is actually very easy to achieve once you unlock and figure out how to make a video go viral or what people want to see.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think the more, you know, difficult thing to do is to build a really sustainable social media presence long-term to support your business goals.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, what I kind of teach everybody that really looks like sticking to not only your business plan, but also remembering that every single piece of content serves a different purpose.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we will have content that is community-building content where we're just sitting down talking to our audience.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we're talking about a pain point, or maybe we're trying to teach them something.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll have your content that's maybe a little bit more inspirational or a little bit more motivational, where you're trying to bring them into that world and get them interested in what you're doing.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have our content that maybe is just straight up selling.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: But knowing that each piece of content serves a different purpose, that keeps you from burning out.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: That keeps your content rotating so people don't get bored.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then that actually keeps you on a pretty steady trajectory of growth.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that right now you pretty much have to be entertaining in some form or fashion to get people to stay with you.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because people are just scroll, scroll, scroll.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: How do you balance authenticity with performance in a way that still drives results?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I hate to think of it like performance because I think that the biggest thing now is that people can tell.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: They can tell when you're coming on and you're trying to mimic another creator's style.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: They can tell when you're coming on and you're putting on a show just for attention or to get, you know, results or watch time.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually honestly seeing a surge in the in the whole comfort creator.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've heard of comfort creator as a term, you know, in social media.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're seeing that sort of creator really come alive again because of all of the AI content that you mentioned earlier.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when we think about how to be entertaining, but how to be authentic, I genuinely think entertainment's not even the factor.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's what are we talking about that actually is of value here that people will want to listen to?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: You could be the most calm, demeanored person, but if you're talking about something of high value, it's still gonna hold attention and it's still gonna go well and grow your account.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Versus if you're just coming on and you're doing all of these things and you're super entertaining, but you're not saying anything of value, there's still no reason to stay and watch that video.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when we think of authenticity plus value, you know, that's really what actually grows your account in the long run.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what creates the community because ultimately we're not just trying to get views, we're trying to convert them to become part of our community.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know a trend for a while, and I still see it from time to time, is the fake podcast interview trend where you're facing away from the camera and you're talking like you're being interviewed on a podcast, right?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'll I'll admit it, I made some of that back in the day.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I ran ads with it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's I think people are seeing through that now.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think people, whereas that was considered thought leadership content at the time.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm hearing from you now, more thought leadership content would be like just talking to the camera like I'm having a conversation with a friend and explaining stuff that way.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Genuine connection.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even if we think of the psychology behind that content, if you're looking away from the camera, I'm not connecting with you as the viewer because it does appear as if you're talking to somebody else and you're engaged in another conversation and I'm a bystander.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: When I feel like we are FaceTiming like a friend or we're talking one-on-one, I feel like I gain so much more from that as a viewer.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And in the psychology behind that, again, like the eye contact, even though it's through a phone or through a screen.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's still something to be said about that connection, especially when you are talking about certain topics or certain types of businesses.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot easier to make that connection when we feel like we're looking at each other versus if we're looking off the screen.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that is still a very popular content type.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I see that circulating a lot.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's pretty common still, I think.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, I think now more than ever, people are actually seeing through a lot of content that people are putting out.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that is something, you know, like a tactic of like the fake interview, or whether that's different trends that people are jumping on.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's so incredibly noticeable when we're not coming on as our authentic selves that that kind of content, regardless of what we're talking about or what we're doing, it'll still make people scroll.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, trend, you mentioned trends.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Trends come and go.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've all like put up a finger or whatever, or put down a finger, whatever, all that.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It comes and goes.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people view content on social media as like 48 hours and then it's gone forever.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, how should creators be thinking about their content as a long-term asset rather than something that's just gonna be out of there in two days?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is so good.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally actually challenge the idea that content is only a 48-hour time window because if you're making good, genuine content, that should have a very long shelf life.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It really, really should.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have videos from over a year ago that still circulate and get engagement on them because they're evergreen topics.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're not tied to a certain time of year, they're not tied to a certain thing, they're not tied to a certain topic.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: They just can live forever.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we think about growing sustainable businesses using organic social media, those are the types of videos that you have got to prioritize making.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because we know that the internet lives forever.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you post a video and within 24 to 48 hours you feel like it flopped or it didn't do anything, it still exists.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's still a business asset.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: It should have a long shelf life because ideally with social media, what you want to happen is you want people searching for those topics that you talked about, and then that video pop back up and circulate for them.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So ideally, you want to be thinking when you're building out your content plan and your and your pillars and your calendar and whatever, you want to be thinking what can live long term that is going to be useful today and next week and next month and next year that somebody can still find value in.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes total sense.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I get the same thing.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've noticed a lot lately.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting content, I'm getting comments on TikTok from old videos.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they're asking questions.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to actually go back and rewatch the video because I have no idea what it's about.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that's amazing because when you think about it, the algorithm, it is not the algorithm of like, let's say, like 2012 Instagram, where it's in a chronological order, and when that when that goes, it dies.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: We don't live like that anymore.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: We know TikTok has explicitly said we want to be a search engine platform.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So content like that in particular is great because we know that it's going to continue to circulate if people are looking for those topics.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's actually a way better algorithm to be working with because it doesn't feel like after 48 hours, alright, that video is done out of my brain, let's move on.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: We know that it has the potential to continue to grow and evolve and recirculate.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's probably actually one of my favorite things about TikTok's algorithm.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's gonna be more of an SEO focus then.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you need you need to, so would you need to incorporate keywords then in both the on-screen content, what you're saying as well as in the caption?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to match that SEO as closely as possible to everything.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So what comes out of your mouth as your hook, the first thing you say, should be very similar to the text you have on the screen.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that should be very similar to the text that's in your caption, and that should be very similar to if the hashtags that you use, all of those things should match because we know that the algorithm is a robot and it's looking for pattern recognition.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when what you're saying and it gets transcribed matches the text on the screen, matches the caption, matches the hashtags, those things all pull from the pattern and then the video gets categorized as whatever that topic or category is, which then works in your favor because it is a search engine.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then people look for that topic, they find your video, so on and so forth.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how you play to that algorithm.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you mentioned hashtags.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hashtags are another one of those things where, oh, you have to have all 30 hashtags.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, you can only have five hashtags.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is your viewpoint on hashtags and how should they be used?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I am still somebody who believes that hashtags are a really great tool.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're a tool that we've been given.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We might as well use them.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know there are people who just totally ditch hashtags, they don't think that they're useful.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, whether they're useful or not, I'm still going to continue to use them because for that categorization purpose, that's exactly what I use them for.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am not hashtagging something random or something silly just for the sake of using it.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those hashtags, especially when you're only given five, like on TikTok, for example, those, well, and Instagram now, I believe, too, only gives you five.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Those hashtags have to be really intentional.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that it actually encourages you to stop and think, what is this SEO that I need to be using?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are the main keywords that I only have five opportunities to put on there?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I still use them as much as possible.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I will use them.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I will hashtag my business name, I will hashtag the topics I'm talking about.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And my content regularly gets categorized.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for as long as they exist, I will continue to use them.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of thinking of hashtags as trying to make you go viral once again, think of them more as maybe file names to cat, like if you had a big file folder or a Rolodex.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we think about how hashtags were born, we think like early Instagram days, like the 2010s when everyone was using hashtags, there were like 50 on every single post.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You were just using hashtags to try to get pushed out anywhere.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be a post about the sunset and people with hashtag beach, ocean, I love you, you know, random things just to get pushed out.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now we know that hashtags are really meant to be a tool for us to utilize to help get categorized.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it does make you really think more intentionally about what those words are.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I know a lot my my audience, they're business owners, they're they're solopreneurs, they want to use social media to get their business out there and to convert into sales.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: But social media want you to stay on their page because that's how they make money.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care if you make money.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have some sort of secret sauce that you can still make sales while still satisfying the platform's need to keep their audience on the platform?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's such a good question.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing for me, I I don't know if there's a secret sauce necessarily because I am somebody that pushes people off of the platforms, to be honest.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have a link in my website, you know, to to push people to.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you're making content that is keeping people on the apps long enough to satisfy that kind of platform requirement, I guess we can call it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're choosing to go off of the platform.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: The goal of my video is never to push you off of the platform immediately, to be totally honest.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: As somebody who makes more education forward content and then wants you to seek me out to work with me one-on-one, I'm never like, you need to go right now and and book a call with me or do these things.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I never urgently push anybody to to work with me.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's more so of, hey, I'm here.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the content that I make that's helpful to you.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I try to stay in the back of your mind.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I post content every single day.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when you're actually ready to make the leap or make the investment to you know work one-on-one or whatever, you're not necessarily just coming straight from my video.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're usually coming to me after I've kind of proven to you that I'm the person you should work with, if that makes sense.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that makes sense.
• 20:39
  unknown: Okay.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more of the seeding and soft sell in your videos.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that for long-term uh relationship building with your clients too, it's not, hey, here's this really great thing that I'm teaching you or this really great thing that I found, go ahead and buy it right now.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that you want to do in any marketing initiative, especially for businesses though, that are selling something, you want to be top of mind when somebody's ready to purchase.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because nine times out of ten, somebody's not ready to purchase or check out or book something with you immediately after consuming your content.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have got to see it at least seven to ten times.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have to show them proof that things work, you have to show them proof of concept, you have to show them whatever.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be convinced.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really as easy as here's a video, you loved it, and now you're gonna purchase my product.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So because we know that, because we know we need to be in front of them often, the goal in marketing is to be top of mind at all times.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're ready to purchase the product or, you know, book something with you or whatever that be, that your business endeavors are, you're the person that they come back to and they actually seek you out versus jumping straight off of the app to check out or do something with you.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that makes sense.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk about what kind of content they should be making.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are people out there who say, Oh, you need to show your personality and you need to incorporate personal stories.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are people that are like, oh, you need to make educational content to where you teach them how to do things.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think the only consensus that everybody agrees on is the old bait and switch, like make them feel like you're giving them value when you're not actually giving them out.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody sees through that now.
• 22:24
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: What is the best kind of content, or should it be a healthy mix of all of the above?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely a healthy mix of all of the above.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it really can depend on the size of your business and what you're selling.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say generally, the three kind of buckets, I guess, that I recommend to every entrepreneur is you always have to have your brand story as a main focus because we know people get invested in journeys.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: People want to be part of something bigger than themselves.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: They want to be part of a movement.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why all of these other major brands that are more so movement focused are so popular.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because of the product they're selling.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because you could buy a tennis shoe from 50 different brands.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you buying from Nike?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's because you're invested in the brand story.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So one of your content buckets should genuinely be your brand story, how it came about, what is your why?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: What is the purpose of doing this?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: That gets people invested off the jump.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then your second bucket should be something of value.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you building that thing or selling that product?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it different than other products?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's testimonials, maybe that's uh tutorials showing us how it works.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe that's um sitting down and really talking about here's why I designed it, XYZ.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that needs to be more so value-driven.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the third bucket should be community focused.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that is the product in action out and about, whether that is like reviews, testimonials out in the community, people using that product or doing that thing or having a testimonial about what it's like to work with you.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Also a little bit of the behind the scenes, uh, depending, if you're a newer business, I always recommend showing behind the scenes of what it's like to actually build the business because I think that's very high value for people.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you're kind of hitting them from three different angles of like the emotional marketing.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my why, here's my purpose, here's the product, here's how it works, and here's the backstory of what it's like to actually build this.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you get people invested long-term and repeat customers.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm all about creating content that teaches teaches something actionable.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: That every interview I have, I want my audience to be able to go away with something that they can put into action right now to get the ball rolling.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone wants their content to lead somewhere meaningful and that is going to be converting, and maybe they're just starting out that new business, where should they start?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a specific platform they should start on, or do different platforms work better for certain businesses?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Where do they need to begin?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say depending on your goals, TikTok we know is a great growth platform, and you can generally grow a TikTok faster than any other type of account.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So specifically to grow a business and to and to get leads and sales, I would say TikTok is 100% the start.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can, you know, parallel to that, also do Instagram because we can cross-post a lot of that content.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok, you know, videos can go to Instagram reels, can go to trial reels on Instagram, for example.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say both of those platforms should absolutely be the priority.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but depending on what the age range of your target audience is, if they're over 40, Facebook is actually still a really great platform for businesses.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and that target audience really still kind of lives on Facebook, more or less.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it really just depends on what type of business you have.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would sit down and I would really think through, okay, who is our target audience?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's their age range, what's the platform that they're on, and that's the platform that I would focus on.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: So over 40, we're talking Gen X boomers, they're gonna be more on Facebook.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe millennials are gonna be more on Instagram and then Gen Lennials.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram and TikTok still.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have a big surge of millennials on TikTok.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know I'm Gen X and I'm on TikTok more than I'm on Facebook, but I don't think I'm the norm.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, probably not because of your career, but I would say generally, and if you think to um not even the platforms that you frequent, but the platforms that you would actually purchase from.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would say generally a boomer is more way more likely to purchase from a Facebook ad than they are to find a TikTok video, click a link in the bio.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: We also have to think about that process too, right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's very people are lazy.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult to get them to go through a marketing funnel to get them to go through a marketing process.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is a lot easier to click a Facebook ad and go straight to a checkout page versus on TikTok, click a link, find the product, go through the checkout.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of consider all of those things too when you're thinking about who your target audience is and what that call to action is that you want them to do.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: That totally makes sense.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, do you do any sort of work with LinkedIn?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, LinkedIn is really great, especially for B2B marketing.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and LinkedIn is really great, I think, still for more professional business focused product and selling.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's something like let's say um some sort of like job tools or some sort of AI tools or or something like that, actually LinkedIn would be a really great place for that.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a different strategy on LinkedIn versus the TikTok and Instagram?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it has to do with how you're talking to people because on LinkedIn, you're talking to other professionals.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Those are people that are intentionally on LinkedIn, are on LinkedIn for a reason.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just scrolling for fun, they're not just wasting their day watching TikToks.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: They are there because they either want to learn something, they want to grow professionally, or they want to grow their own personal business.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're thinking about the messaging that we're putting on LinkedIn versus other platforms, that messaging actually needs to be so incredibly intentional.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: We need to assume that people understand topics a little bit deeper, maybe than they would on somewhere like Instagram or TikTok where we feel like we have to teach somebody something from scratch.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also I think those people are are way more motivated to actually move forward with something because they are there professionally.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does the storytelling aspect work on LinkedIn?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: So LinkedIn is all about connection.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um, like you want to give me like a fake scenario and we can talk through it?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's give it, okay, let's say that you are a business owner and you have you offer um a group membership or one-on-one coaching and you want to get clients off of LinkedIn.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of content would you put out there in order to make that happen?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay, so I would be putting out probably a variety of content.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to have some deeper thought leadership content.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that could be in the form of articles, for example, where we're diving a little bit deeper on particular topics, on particular pain points, whether that is, you know, here are things that you could be struggling with in your business, and then here's how I solve them.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or here are some things that maybe you need to grow a business that you don't even know that you need yet.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And here is like a more in-depth thought leadership article on that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we always want to leave a little bit open-ended because obviously you want people to then move into working with you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you give them everything, they don't have a reason to work with you.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that thought leadership is really important on LinkedIn.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then we can obviously utilize the short form posts, like very quick little snippets that kind of are like, you know, a gut check of here's something that you actually should be doing that you're probably not, or you know, here's something that I know is not working if you're in XYZ business.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So just really quick hits.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can still put content, um video content on LinkedIn.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: We don't see the like 9 by 16 format so much work on LinkedIn as a traditional like 16 by 9 format on that platform.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as you know, utilizing content on different platforms, you do have to sort of resize it and kind of recreate it for that platform versus a short form kind of content platform.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think generally, like I said, like people on LinkedIn are really looking for more thought leadership and they're looking for deeper information about really particular things.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that actually articles really do come in handy on LinkedIn, more so than any other platform.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if one of one of my audience members, or many of them, want to find you and work with you, what's the best way for them to find you?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I am on every platform as by Jamie Social.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is my handle.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok and Instagram are my two main platforms.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I also have a website, which is just byjamiesocial.com.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the best ways to reach me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I will make sure that's in the show notes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're out there and you're thinking about getting started in social media or you're frustrated because your social media is not your old strategy is not working.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you take some of the advice Jamie gave us today because planning your content around what she just told you is going to make you successful.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, keep planning like a boss.