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Big Stu-ey: The Wolf in Winter (w/Jason Hehir) · Stugotz and Company

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Jason Hare is the director of a new film. I'm
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: excited about this. It's out on Prime The Wolf of Winter,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: about Novak Djokovic. The Wolf of Winter will premiere August twentieth,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: exclusively on Prime Video. When Jason here, the director, is
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: with us right now. Jason, let's start here. Why did
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: you choose Novak Djokovic as a subject of one of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: your movies here?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Well, they approached me. I'm not a tennis guy. I mean,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I know as much about tennis as any big sports fan.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I watched the Majors and the Grand Slams, but I'm
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: not really a tennis nerd like that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: I knew of him.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I knew his reputation, I knew that he was a
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: polarizing figure and very opinionated. So from a character standpoint,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I was intrigued. And then the opportunity to actually follow
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: a goat in real time. Most of the time, if
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: you do an athlete profile and it's one of the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: greatest of their sport, you're doing it in retrospect, so
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: it's an archival documentary more than like a verite documentary.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: This was a unique opportunity to follow someone who is
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: the greatest ever at their sport, who's still playing at
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: a dominant level. So I was interested to see what
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the push and pull was in his life between family
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: and on the court, and how he was making decisions
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: he was making at this point in his career.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: How cool is that for you where people are seeking
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you out to make their movie.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: That's pretty cool, right.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Extremely, I've been extremely lucky and work with really great people.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Nina Kurstitch was a producer, was the producer on this,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: and she was my producer for the Last Dance as well.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And Nina is Serbian, so she knew all of Novak's
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: backstory and she really was pivotal in a getting me
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to do this, but be telling the story itself. So
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: but it's very cool to get those phone calls and
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: those emails and that kind of outreach.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about and explain to the audience and
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to me for that matter, just what Novak had, like
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: his upbringing and what he had to overcome to become
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the greatest tennis player that's ever lived.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an unlikely story for a kid from Serbia
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: to be the greatest tennis player ever, because it's crazy.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Tennis has really seen as this kind of like first
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: world regal sport. It made sense that Federer and Nadal
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: are from Sweden and the south of Spain, and they
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: look like, you know, their movie stars and charismatic. Novak
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: came from a war torn country which until recently. I
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: mean when I thought of Serbia when I was younger,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I had, you know, mixed feelings about what this country
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: was about. Melosovich was their leader. He's a war criminal.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I knew that there were NATO bombings there. And he
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: grew up as a child during all of that, so
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: he really didn't get a chance to have much of
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a childhood at all. And then he was sent off
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: when he was twelve or thirteen years old to this
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: school in Germany by his dad to become a champion.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: His dad put ten dollars on the table and said,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: this is all we have left. So if you don't
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: come home a champion, then the family has nothing. He's
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: got two younger brothers, So an enormous amount of stress
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: was placed on this kid socially just growing up where
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: he was growing up during a war, but domestically as well,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: to kind of be the breadwinner for his entire family.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: So that informs a lot of what you see on
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and off the court in Novak today as a grown man.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Jason, how collaborative was the process with Novak when it
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: came to deciding how his story was going to be told.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Very He's really curious. He's one of the most intelligent
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: guys I've ever interviewed, and he's really really curious about
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the process of filmmakings. So if he wanted to know, like,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: how do you do research, how do you decide who
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: you're going to talk to, how do you decide what
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the first scene is? He really just when he goes
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: for something, he dives full head into it. I initially
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: pitched him a doc that was titled The Two Novaks
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: because I was really interested in the idea that you
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: cannot be the best dad in the world and the
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: best tennis player in the world at the same time.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And I wondered where the push and pull was in
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: his life and how he was grappling with that at
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: this point in his life because his kids are now
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: the age that he was when he was dealing with
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: all of that, the war and the bombings and all that,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and he's got a fantastic relationship with his kids. He's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a great dad, He's got a great relationship with his wife, Yelena,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: who was the MVP of the documentary. She's extraordinary. So yeah,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I forget the initial question. But while we were talking
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: about how involved he is, Yes, he gave I mean
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: he gave a ton of notes. This was kind of
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the opposite of the Last Dance, where Michael gave one
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: note in two and a half years. I think Novak
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: gave a lot of notes. He had a lot of feedback.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: He was very involved in the process. But it wasn't
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a situation where and he respected this. It wasn't a
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: situation where he just got whatever he wanted and he had,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you know, final say on what we how were we
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: going to tell his story? There was certain places that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: we had to go in order to validate the story
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: and have some integrity. And he's smart enough to understand
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: that that if this There's was one hundred percent positive
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: portrayal of him, then then it would be kind of
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: a puff piece. But no one's one hundred percent villain
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: and no one's one hundred percent hero. So he understood
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: that we needed to tell both sides of that story,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: and he was accommodating with that.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Is there a person you didn't get on the documentary
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that you wish you had gotten.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: There's not. I mean we I really wanted to tell
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: a smaller story with with With. I think there's a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: propensity today with great athletes to immediately say, like, how
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: many episodes is this going to be? And we didn't
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: do that any favors and doing ten episodes on Jordan
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: and the Bulls. But I really wanted this to be
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: kind of a smaller one. This was never meant to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: be a comprehensive, definitive story of his life. I was
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: really interested in this moment of his life. That's why
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: it's called The Wolf in Winter, which is a nod
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to the Lion in Winter. Howard Bryant, who's a writer,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: says in our doc that that's his favorite phase of
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: an athlete, is when they're kind of aging and they're
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: defending their crown against younger, younger challengers. So I really
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: wanted to kind of tell the story of him at
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: a crossroads in his life in his late thirties, rather
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: than his entire life story. So we didn't cast a
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: very wide net for this and interviewed a lot less
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: people that I would normally interview in a documentary, but
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: we had really strong characters, so it worked out.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: So you got all the people that you wanted. What
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: surprised you about Novak?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Was there a personality trade that surprised you the most
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: as you got to know him through doing this film.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I think as a dad, I didn't expect him to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: be a bad dad, but I had my own image
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: of him as kind of robotic and machine like on
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: the court. But immediately our first day of shooting his daughter,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: who at that point I think was four, this dog,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: by the way, took longer than the last dance took.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: That's how really how long we're working on this. It's
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: ninety two minutes long, and the last dance was ten hours,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: and this took longer than the last dance. But his
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: daughter showed up to the practice court and ran over
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to him and sat in his lap, and she put
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: her little pink bucket hat on his head. And those
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: kind of moments are things that are earned and you
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: can't fake. So immediately I was thinking, like, all right,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: this is I'm seeing something here that the public has
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: not seen. And now we see his kids more and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: more in the stands, and you can tell his affection
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: for them because he's always doing it for them, but
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: younger in his career and younger his life when he
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: didn't have kids. I think even he would be surprised
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: if he saw that piece of footage, maybe when he
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: was a young, up and coming pro. But that was
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: immediately kind of disarmed me and made me think, all right,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: there's more to this guy than just the robot on
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the tennis court.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: Jason, I loved the Last Dance. My favorite person in
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: it was the security guard John Michael Wosney act when yeah,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: when you're making a documentary.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Is it not Jordan?
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I mean the shrug Thatsniak hit was just electric. When
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: you're making a documentary, do you have a sense in
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: the moment of what's going to resonate with audiences like
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that or does that sometimes surprise.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: You not at all.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: That was one of the fun parts for us as
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: because we were still making that as the Last Dance
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: was airing, so we were making these episodes and to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: see what went viral and see the memes and all that.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: We had no concept if he tried to do that,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: you're putting the car before the horse, and then you're
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: probably not going to make a very good film. If
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you're trying to make it go viral, that that's something
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: that just kind of happens organically on its own. But yeah,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: John Michael is Rest in peace to John Michael. But man,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: is he a superstar after that thing?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Does Novak consider himself to be the greatest tennis player
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of all time?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: We never discussed it. I don't he has. He has
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: to have a healthy ego to perform the way that
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: he performs. He's not a cocky guy, and that never
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: really came up. I mean, he's if he felt he
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: was the greatest of all time and it was indisputable,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that would be enough to make him stop.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he's trying to pad his resume
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: for that argument, but I think he just I know
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that he loves the game so much that as long
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: as he can still play and play at on any
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: given day the highest level in the world. I mean,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: he could beat Alcaraz and center on any given day.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: He's proven that in the last couple of years. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: don't think he sees any reason to stop playing. But
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: deep down, I think it would be hard for him
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: to not consider himself the best of when you hear
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: everybody else, including Rotha recently, say that he is he's
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: the greatest, you know, but he doesn't drink his own
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: kool aid, that's for sure.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised by the amount of respect that Rafa
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and Federer have for Novak?
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Djokovic not surprised.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It was nice to see, right, I wasn't surprised by it.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, I guess you assume it's there,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: but until you actually hear those guys talking about Novak,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you don't know if they actually do respect him.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: You know, it's fun. It's one of the fun parts
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: of you know, Novak's obviously still active and those guys
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: are retire but it's one of the fun parts about
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: watching these legends play and then when they retire you
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: actually get to hear a little bit of the truth. Yes,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: because I don't think that either one of those guys
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: would ever give that up if they were still playing
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: against him, and they probably didn't believe it when they
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: were playing against him. But when the dust settles, it's
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: nice to hear the affection these guys and respect these
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: guys have for each other.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: So cool, Jason, you mentioned that they pitched you on
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: this idea, and I have an idea that I've been
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: trying to get off the groundify potentially pitch you as
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: a director.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Right, It's good timing because I just finished the project.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I want to turn a Miracle on Ice into a
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Broadway play.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Oh stop it? Oh you like that idea? Or you'd
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: just being nice?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Going on?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Here?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Are we talking like roller Blades? How would we?
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Maybe? Yeah?
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: I think on roller Blades by a lot of singing,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of dancing. You have the conflict with the
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: USA and Russia. Feels like it's there for the taking.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Fifty yeah, I mean eighty kind of like flamboyant costumes,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: you see, like like high kicks.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: We capitalize on this hockey craze right now?
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, well, my friends at Words and Pictures
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: did the did the Miracle doc that came out on
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Netflix earlier this year, which was phenomenal. So and obviously
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: that story has got endless legs. I mean, how many
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: dogs have been done on that thing and people still
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: eat it up? So maybe, yeah, I think the Broadway
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: could be the next Frontier. You might be honest something,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: So I'd be honored to be involved.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: So that's not a no. I mean, I am shocked.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: It's better than a no.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's a maybe.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: In fact, you know what, Yes, we're doing it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Wow, Yes, we're going abroadway.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: You heard his terms though, was eighty twenty his way
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: the percentages? You heard that he'll cut you deal?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Novak?
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: What do you want people here? Again?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: The Wolf in Winter will premiere August twentieth exclusively a
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Prime video. Jason Hare, the director of the new film,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: is with us. What do you want people to walk
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: away from this film thinking about Novak Djokovic? What do
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you think they'll walk away thinking about him?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I want them to understand him more. I don't want
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: them necessarily to like him more, to love him if
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: they hated him, to love him now. But if they
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: don't like him, I want them to understand why he
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: acts the way he acts, why he makes the decisions
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: he makes, why he is the person he is. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: if they do like him, I want them to, you know,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: still understand the guy more than they did when they
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: came in, because he's a pretty private guy and there
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: hasn't been a real deep dive done on him yet.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: That was another reason why this was an attractive project
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: is that people really haven't done a long form doctor
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: He's participated in fully so just understanding and showing the
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: human side of this guy. All the time. I say
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: that we try to deiconize these legends, these living legends,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and the more human you can show them, as I think,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the more people respond and the more it resonates with them.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And there's nothing more human than your daughter running up
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and sitting on your lap and throwing a pink bucket
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: hat on your head and you laughing with her. So
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: that's what I hope people come away with is to
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: understand not just Novak the tennis player, but no Back,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: the husband, the father of the friend, the man.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Jason, we appreciate it. Your work is exceptional. I feel
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: like this is going to be a big time hit
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: for you. I think people are interested in this. The
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: US opens right around the corner. The Wolf in Winter
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: will premiere August twentieth, exclusively on Prime Video. Jason, thank
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you so much for doing this, man. We appreciate it,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and good luck with the film.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, guys, you got it.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Man,