Latest / History Dark / 45 Years Later_ A Serial Killer Confesses Everything _ Serial Killer With Piers Morgan

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45 Years Later_ A Serial Killer Confesses Everything _ Serial Killer With Piers Morgan · History Dark

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Have you ever watched Silence of the Lambs?
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: What did you think of that film?
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Not much.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: A Justice Department investigator calls it terrifying, an epidemic.
• 0:15
  Speaker 4: They're known as serial killers. There are at least 35
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: of them roaming the country now. Are serial killers born
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: or made?
• 0:28
  Speaker 5: There is almost always a pattern to the killings.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: These people normally don't stop. 20 killings.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: 8 murders.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: 15 human bodies, including 3 heads preserved in a refrigerator.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: These men brought unspeakable horror into the lives of Americans
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: in the 1970s. Their names still haunt America today.
• 0:51
  Speaker 6: Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Son of Sam.
• 0:53
  Speaker 7: John Wayne Gacy.
• 0:54
  Speaker 8: Ted Bundy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Diabolical genius, deceptive, manipulative.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Many have been executed, but one of them is still alive.
• 1:03
  Speaker 9: He had the darkest eyes I have ever seen.
• 1:07
  Speaker 10: He can put on the mask of Bernard Eugene Giles,
• 1:11
  Speaker 10: but when you take off the mask, he's the monster.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: I want to know how these men think and why
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: they kill. And now, finally, a serial killer willing to
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: confess all.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Are you proud of the Label serial killer.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: One summer in the early 1970s, a young couple moved
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: into this trailer park on the east coast of Florida.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: Bernard Giles was just 20. His wife was 18 and
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: they had a newborn daughter. Neither his family or his
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: new neighbours had any reason to suspect that Giles was
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: harbouring a deep compulsion to kill.
• 2:10
  Speaker 9: See the trailer with the carport structure? That's where his
• 2:14
  Speaker 9: trailer was.
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: Sunday afternoon was my laundry day and it just seemed
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: like I ran into him so much in there.
• 2:23
  Speaker 8: Oh, it's the same.
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: I can't believe that. He would be sitting up here, just,
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: I usually get those down there.
• 2:32
  Speaker 9: He never said a word.
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: No, never. And he'd be sitting here and just dangling
• 2:37
  Speaker 6: his legs and just looking.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I wonder why he would sit in here.
• 2:42
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 2:44
  Speaker 6: Because I don't think he ever had any laundry.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: Bernard Giles has been in prison for 45 years. After
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: a long period of contact, he's finally agreed to meet me.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: It's Charles.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Good to see you.
• 3:09
  Speaker 11: Morning, sir.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Come and sit down. Thank you for giving
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: us the time today.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: You're serving five... life sentences for killing five young women.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: So my first question is, did you kill those women?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I did.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to your early life.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: With most people that commit heinous crimes, you can normally
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: point to something that doesn't justify, but might go some
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: way to explaining it. The curious thing about your early
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: life is there doesn't seem to be anything there.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: There was no Appalling upbringing. You were one of four kids.
• 3:58
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You were well taken care of.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: My brothers and sisters have done well.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You were loved as a child?
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Yes. And was the driving force for that compulsion, was
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: it violence, was it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Sexual.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: It was all sexual?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: It was all sexual. And that's the thing, it's like
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: people who, they become imprinted. before they're five or six.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I knew the roots of mine. I knew where it
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: came from.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Where did it come from?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: The initial sexual imprinting was an act of violence against
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: a girl.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: You were six years old, and you were playing just
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: a game of witch hunt, where a girl would pretend
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to be a witch, and you would all chase after.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: She was a neighbor of yours.
• 4:47
  Speaker 11: Right.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I was in a back bedroom, and.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: The part that I remember was straddling her and strangling her, right? Playing.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And that was my initial sexual imprint from that point on.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: As a child growing up, I became obsessed with this.
• 5:17
  Speaker 10: The term itself, serial killer, was not well known back
• 5:22
  Speaker 10: in the 1970s. However, later, we started seeing these terms
• 5:28
  Speaker 10: come up in the detective magazines and other kinds of
• 5:33
  Speaker 10: TV shows. But mostly, we believe that the serial killers
• 5:38
  Speaker 10: happened somewhere else.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: Bernard Giles was one of Florida's first serial killers. He
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: terrorized an entire community. In just 12 weeks, he murdered
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: five women Two of the bodies were found just yards
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: from his trailer, where he lived with his wife and child.
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: Bob Telfer was a young state's attorney at the time.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: He discovered their remains. It's stayed with him ever since. So, Bob,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: when you found these two bodies within two days, it
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: must have sent a shudder through everybody.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Well, back then, and of course it was a different
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: time and a different place, and girls were hitchhiking. It
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: was a common occurrence to see that up and down
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: the road, particularly in a small community like this. All
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: that stopped overnight. There was a shutter that went through
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: the community. There was publicity about this. The hitchhiking stopped
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and people started looking over their shoulder.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: What this man did, Bernard Giles, to these young women
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: was just.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: It was, and, you know, it's every parent's nightmare to
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: realise that the last few moments of her life were
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: terror-filled with a psychopath, and she was going to die
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: at a young age. It just makes it even worse.
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: Throughout his childhood, there were no outward signs that Bernard
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Giles was deeply troubled. But into his teens, He was
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: failing at school and dropped out. And then one day,
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: his obsession took over. When you were 16, there was
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: a young woman walking in front of you and you
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: suddenly felt.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: An urge to kill her. Tell me about that.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It was like an opportunity that had presented itself to me.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: And this woman was getting into a VW and I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: had a knife. And I went past the car, and
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: fortunately I kept going. I just kept going.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: What were you feeling in that moment?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Extraordinarily hyped.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: And what were you thinking you may do to that woman?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Well, if it had gone the other way, I would
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: have murdered her.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: At the age of 16? Yes, sir.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a chilling thing to hear. This is not...
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you recognize this. This is not a normal conversation.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, I understand that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: None of this feels normal.
• 8:22
  Speaker 11: Sir.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: You're 16 years old and you have just this extraordinary
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: compulsion to kill this woman.
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: Yes, sir.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: But it passed. You moved on.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. It just wasn't overwhelming. It didn't, you know,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: it was just, and I didn't. I just kept moving.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And if you hadn't kept moving, that woman.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Would have been murdered.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: And she would have no idea to this day, I imagine.
• 8:49
  Speaker 11: No.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: She never even glanced back at me.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: You wished you had killed her?
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: No, I don't. I'm glad that I didn't. I wish
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I hadn't killed any of my victims. You know?
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: Were you in any doubt at that stage that one
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: day it would happen?
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: No, no doubt at all.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: You knew this was something you had to do?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 9:12
  Speaker 7: It was.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: For me... This was my life's passion up to that point.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: To do what?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: To murder. To murder women.
• 9:25
  Speaker 12: I mean, there'll be viewers watching this going, this guy
• 9:41
  Speaker 12: was apparently normal, late teenage guy, He's got married, he's
• 9:48
  Speaker 12: got a little baby girl.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Life seems fine and yet ticking away is this horrific
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: time bomb.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: And that's very frequently been the case, that you have
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: people that they present as perfectly normal.
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: You know, you're looking for these sort of trigger points.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: Where is that trigger, that what happens? And it may
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: very well have been the stresses he felt in being married,
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: being a 19, 20-year-old guy with a child. And really,
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: you can see him here. He's not really equipped to
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: be dealing with marriage, let alone a baby. This probably
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: caused a tremendous amount of stress for him. And I'm
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: not surprised that these killings started really within a month
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: or two after the birth of his child.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: In October 1973, Bernard Giles drove out of this trailer
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: park onto this highway.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: His intention? To hunt down and kill his first victim.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: He was looking for hitchhikers, unsuspecting girls, who, back then,
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: never imagined accepting a lift from a stranger would get
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: them killed.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: That day that you went out when you did kill
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: for the first time, was.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: That the morning when you woke up and you were
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: with your wife and daughter and you just, something hit
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: you and you went?
• 11:29
  Speaker 11: No.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Today may be the day?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Every day may be the day.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Every day?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Every day may be the day.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Do you know the name of your first victim?
• 11:39
  Speaker 10: No, sir.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Not now. Jerry, Nancy Jerry.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Do you know anything about her life?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I found out later she was a singer in a bar.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Tell me what happened.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Picked her up in Titusville. There's a wooded area and
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I pulled off the road.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: What did she look like?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: A little shorter than me. Fairly well built. Pretty but
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: not particularly pretty. Brown hair. That's about it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: And at what point did she realize that you were
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: going to harm her?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Well, not necessarily that I was going to harm her. Because,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: you know, most of them don't assume you're actually going
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: to kill them. Most of them assume it's a rape
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: or something like that. Or a robbery or whatever, you know.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Had you been talking normally to her?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there wasn't much to the conversation. The weapon
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: speaks for itself.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And what did you then do?
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I told her to get out of the car and
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that's when she became afraid. Up to that point, I
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: assumed that she thought it was just going to be
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: a rape. I walked her over in front of a
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: tree and I shot her.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Just like that?
• 13:09
  Speaker 11: Yes, sir.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And what were you feeling as you did that?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Very stimulated, very provoked, very.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is, is, you know, what is
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: your passion in your life? You know, what is the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: thing that you like to do more than anything else?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And you're doing it. You are so there that you
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: can almost, it's like you can see the atoms vibrating.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just, it's difficult to describe.
• 14:07
  Speaker 11: Giles is relatively unusual in that he started, his age
• 14:11
  Speaker 11: of onset for the serial killing was age 20. He's
• 14:14
  Speaker 11: unusual because he did a spate of five killings within
• 14:16
  Speaker 11: three months with almost no cooling off period.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: That's highly unusual.
• 14:21
  Speaker 11: Usually mid-20s is the advent of the first acting out
• 14:24
  Speaker 11: on the fantasy. There's a long cooling off period of
• 14:27
  Speaker 11: at least a month before the second one. He was
• 14:30
  Speaker 11: acting almost in a frenzy. He was too young and
• 14:33
  Speaker 11: too immature to put enough thought into his crimes to
• 14:36
  Speaker 11: get away with them. There was no way it was sustainable.
• 14:39
  Speaker 11: So it was almost like a childish urge to get
• 14:42
  Speaker 11: as much fun crammed into a short space of time
• 14:44
  Speaker 11: as possible before he got caught. Because inside he knew
• 14:48
  Speaker 11: he would eventually get caught.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: Once Bernard Giles started killing, he made little attempt to
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: hide the bodies of his victims. Their discovery was now
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: making daily news headlines. Titusville, a city where a million
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: visitors had come just four years before to watch Neil
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: Armstrong blast off to the moon, was now the focus
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: of a desperate manhunt to find the killer. Ladies, you
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: were all young women. You were all in your early
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: 20s at the time that this all happened. Take me
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: back to life in the area at the time.
• 15:37
  Speaker 13: Well, this was a sleepy little town right across from
• 15:39
  Speaker 13: the Space Center.
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: Exactly. And it was, everyone wanted to come here because
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: of the Space Center, the launches and everything. But where
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: we lived in Mobile Manor, it was a really nice area.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: The moment you realized that Bernard Giles, he was this
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: guy that lived in that trailer opposite you. What impact
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: did that have on you guys?
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: Devastated me. I was stunned.
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: I was like, whoa, look how close this guy was
• 16:10
  Speaker 9: to me. I could have been one of his victims.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: What was your criteria for a victim?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Access.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: To any woman?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Did it matter how old they were or what they
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: looked like?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Generally speaking, no.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: There could literally have been any woman that happened to
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: stray into your orbit.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir... when you were cruising in your car and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: they were thumbing a lift.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, that made you, at the time, an unbelievably
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: dangerous man for any young woman.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: See, I'm not defending the position. I'm describing the position.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It was what I was and where I was at.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: Were you aware that there was now a hunt for
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: what police began to realise was a serial killer?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Not really until, you know, I had known that they
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: had found a body.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: And that was Paula's body?
• 17:22
  Speaker 13: Yes, sir.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Probably, I guess.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: Paula Hamrick was a single mother of two heading to
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: work one day when Bernard Giles stopped to offer her
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: a lift. Her body was found here. She was his
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: oldest victim at just 22. Her two boys, Stephen and Billy,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: were just toddlers at the time.
• 17:54
  Speaker 12: He knew she had kids, but I'm sure she pleaded
• 17:58
  Speaker 12: for her life and told him that she had two babies.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And like I said, that answered my question.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: He obviously didn't care because.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: He killed her anyways.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I think it was about 12 years old when he
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: went to my mother's grave site.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: The first victim, you remember the name, but do you
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: remember the names of any of the victims?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: None at all?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: No.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: They meant nothing to you?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Why would I do that? Why would someone embrace the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: names of their victims? I saw these women as objects.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: This woman, Paula Hamrick, who was a a mum of
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: two young kids who've never known their mother. You know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: if she'd thought to humanise herself to you, she might
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: still be alive. But you didn't say you killed her.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: This is Carolyn. Very young.
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Do you remember these faces as I show you them?
• 19:26
  Speaker 11: No, sir.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Truthfully, I don't.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: 14, this girl. As was this one, 14. Do you
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: remember her?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: You don't really remember any of these girls?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: By face?
• 19:44
  Speaker 13: No, sir.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Some women actually saved their lives. by engaging me in conversations.
• 19:52
  Speaker 11: How many?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Three I can think of right off. I actually went
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: to the home of one. It got in a conversation
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: about smoking marijuana. She rolled up a few joints. We
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: drove around the neighborhood and smoked one, and I let
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: her off at her house.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: And what were you thinking you may do to that woman?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Well, if it had gone the other way, I would
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: have murdered her.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: For a guy like this, really, what's important for him
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: is what he wants.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And what he wants.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I want to kill these women and I want to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: have sex with them.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: And when I'm done, I'm just going to leave them
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: right there in the dirt because I don't really care
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: about them. And then I'm going to go back to
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: my wife and they won't know any difference. I won't
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: have any change in emotion.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: What I struggle with with you, you kill five women,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: but all the time you're going back to your marital
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: home Yes, sir. With Leslie, your wife, and your daughter, Heather.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: How are you functioning in normal married life in this
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: extraordinary 12, 13-week period? Badly.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 21:29
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: It was just... As this thing's taking me over, I'm
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: kind of disintegrating as a person.
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: The....
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Me and my wife are fighting all the time. I'm out.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Obsessions take you over.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Did you get any urge to kill your wife?
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: No.
• 21:52
  Speaker 11: Never? No.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Why not? She was there. She was a woman.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I knew her. I never killed anybody I knew. The
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: thing about objectification of the victims, For me, that was
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: an important element.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Do you remember doing that?
• 22:19
  Speaker 8: No, sir.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: Well, it's 45 years since you have probably seen that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: May I see this one just a moment? This is
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a little strange for me because I recognize elements of
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: my own style. And yet I can't remember doing these, honestly.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: You definitely didn't.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: That's strange. For real.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, that one there, for example.
• 22:53
  Speaker 11: Yes, sir.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: When you look at it, notwithstanding the fact you can't
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: remember it very well, but it's a very macabre image.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: A young woman, you have a sort of devil-like figure
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: at the top there, a skeleton.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That's not a woman.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That's not?
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: No.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Or is that you?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: You had long hair at the time, right?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I had long hair at the time.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: So that could have been you, in fact.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: It could have been me.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It's got needles, it's got snakes, it's got skeletons. It's
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a very macabre.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It's not a happy scene.
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: Right. Right.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Giles drew these pictures at the time of the murders.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: But had there been any early warning signs that might
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: have alerted people to.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: What was coming? You were at school with him, you
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: hung out with him, every day you saw this guy.
• 23:45
  Speaker 14: In junior high school, 65, 66, nicest guy you'd ever
• 23:49
  Speaker 14: want to meet.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, we hear this a lot, don't we, with
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: people that do heinous crimes. Often friends will come out
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: and say, oh, he was such a nice guy.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: But you mean it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 14: I mean it sincerely. He was just a sweet, young, artistic, gifted.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Nice guy. When did you last see him?
• 24:09
  Speaker 14: It was probably, and I believe that he might have
• 24:13
  Speaker 14: already been killing people then. It was on the river.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Did he seem different to you?
• 24:19
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: In what way?
• 24:22
  Speaker 14: He was very intensely working on a drawing, and it
• 24:26
  Speaker 14: was pretty dark. I looked over and I saw a
• 24:29
  Speaker 14: tree and some roots, but in the roots of the tree,
• 24:34
  Speaker 14: was a female body being engulfed in the tree.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: In any of the psych reports, all of them describe
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: him as sane. All of them describe him as in
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: charge of his faculties. He's not psychotic, and he's not
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: mentally ill. He's in touch with reality. He clearly understands
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: this concept of right and wrong. And we know he
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: understands it because he made a conscious effort to take
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: these women to a remote location where he wouldn't be
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: discovered and kill them. If he didn't understand the concept,
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: he probably would have just picked them up and then
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: killed them right on the street in front of everybody.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: He chooses to do wrong because that's what he wants
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: to do.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: It seems that Giles was able to hide his true
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: nature from everyone that knew him, including his new wife, Leslie.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: They'd been married for barely a year when the killings began.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Let me just take you back to just before you
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: first killed. You meet a woman, you fall in love,
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: you get married, her name is Leslie.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yes. Tell me about her.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Good woman. Good woman. First time I ever saw my wife.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: She was a friend of my sister's. She just made
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: friends with my sister. And it passed through the living room.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I was sitting there watching television. And when I saw Leslie,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I knew I was going to marry her. There have
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: been numerous instances in my life where it's just, I
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: know something. I just remember that that's the one right there.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Do you remember how you proposed to her?
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Over the phone.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: That was it? Yeah. Not very romantic.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: You're a young man, but you married this beautiful young woman.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: The family there, it all seems... Normal.
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Did it feel normal to you that day when you
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: got married?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: But you would have sex with your wife?
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Yes, sir.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You had a normal married life in that respect?
• 26:53
  Speaker 10: Yes, sir.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Did you feel like you loved her?
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: But truthfully, I did love her. But, you know, I
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: was completely obsessed with this other thing and I didn't
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: really realise how much I did love my wife until, like,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the last time I ever saw her through, you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: half-inch bulletproof glass, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: During the killings, his wife was at home caring for
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: their baby daughter. Giles would leave the trailer each day
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: to train as an electrician. But in the afternoons, he
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: would cruise the highways looking for hitchhikers. The police still
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: had no suspects and no leads.
• 27:47
  Speaker 10: There was a fear factor. And as a result, people
• 27:51
  Speaker 10: were locking their doors and people were trying to gather
• 27:56
  Speaker 10: more information from the newspapers and from television, which carried
• 28:01
  Speaker 10: very little information. but they were following it very closely,
• 28:06
  Speaker 10: but they were still afraid. What's even more scary is
• 28:11
  Speaker 10: it wasn't somebody traveling through because victims were localized. There
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: had to be someone responsible from within.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: So who could it be?
• 28:25
  Speaker 13: And normally when we'd have any kind of a murder
• 28:27
  Speaker 13: or something, Within 24 hours, they had a suspect. They
• 28:30
  Speaker 13: knew who they were going after and pretty much were right.
• 28:33
  Speaker 13: And I remember a lot of times during that period,
• 28:36
  Speaker 13: they got to where I was working like seven days
• 28:38
  Speaker 13: a week. And it was driving them crazy that it
• 28:40
  Speaker 13: was taking so long to figure this one out.
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: When I would be on my lunch break or go
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: home from work, I would see some young girls hitchhiking,
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: knowing there's already been two or three murdered. I would
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: just pull over, roll down my window and say, hey,
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: don't you girls know what's going on?
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: The killings had begun in October of 1973. By December,
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: three bodies had been found. And then the police discovered
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: the remains of Sharon Wymer. She was just 14 years old.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: But what is baffling about this murder is where he
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: killed her.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Bob, what strikes me about this location is we're so near.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: To the trailer park where Bernard Giles lived with his
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: own young family. And the body was so easily discoverable.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: This is a very brazen serial killer. He's almost like
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: crying out to be caught.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: In a way, yes, but in another way, you get
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: hunters back in here and everything too, so that the
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: sound of a gunshot wouldn't necessarily tell everybody around that
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: something unusual like that is going on. What we discovered
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: was that there was jewelry there, a necklace and maybe
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: a bracelet.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: A quite identifiable jewelry.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: We strongly suspected, the police did, that this was Sharon Leimer.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: And we left, and at the residence were siblings plus
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: her mother. And we showed them the jewelry, and very,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: very sad. I mean, the kids are crying. Mom's on
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: the couch in denial. No, it can't be that, it
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: can't be that. And the kids would say, no, Mom,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: it is, it is. That's how we got the identification.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: That kind of stuff sticks with you.
• 30:30
  Speaker 8: Through the years.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Two of your victims you took back to within a
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: few hundred yards of where you lived.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: What was your thinking in doing that?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking. There's no logical reason for having done that.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: It's quite a high-risk thing to do, I guess.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I wasn't doing my best thinking at that
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: point in time.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: You didn't really care?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I have an expression here, basically, off the chain.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I was... Like I said, I wasn't doing my best thinking.
• 31:19
  Speaker 11: After each killing, that need to feel that again... is
• 31:23
  Speaker 11: there and it's urgent, but it's even bigger. We see
• 31:28
  Speaker 11: this with so many serial killers. With each one, they
• 31:31
  Speaker 11: have to come up with some new angle to make
• 31:33
  Speaker 11: it more violent, more horrific, more hands-on, more personal, make
• 31:39
  Speaker 11: the victim younger, make the victim beg. They have to
• 31:42
  Speaker 11: try some new angle to keep that thrill alive. But
• 31:45
  Speaker 11: of course, this isn't sustainable. At some point or another,
• 31:48
  Speaker 11: they either get caught where they become so frenetic that
• 31:52
  Speaker 11: they have no choice but to screw up and police
• 31:55
  Speaker 11: find them.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: And that is exactly what happened with Bernard Giles. 12
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: weeks after the murders began, he made a crucial mistake
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: along this isolated road.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: When you were finally caught, you tried to pick up
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: two girls at the same time.
• 32:19
  Speaker 10: Yes, sir.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: But it feels like it was an escalation.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: That's exactly it. I was getting worse.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: That's where you made your big mistake, because they got away.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: How did they get away? I mean, you had a gun.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: The gun misfired. I had hit one of them with
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: the gun, and it discharged. It jammed inside the gun.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And that was when they ran off?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: That's when they ran off.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: They got away having seen... form in your car which
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: had your name on.
• 32:50
  Speaker 13: A book.
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: They saw a book that had a name in it
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: and the name was Bernard Giles. I checked files and
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: it gave his address.
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: Inspector DeWitt come in and he says, you got to
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: listen to me. Listen to me good. Keep your doors locked.
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: Do not answer it. He says, we're going to make
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: an arrest in these murders. I said, here? He said, yes.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: I was shaking.
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: We could have been the next victim.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Did you panic?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Basically, yeah. I didn't know that they had, actually had
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: my name. So, About the time that I get home,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: the police are setting up, you know, and they got me.
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: I wasn't the only one who peeked out our door
• 33:56
  Speaker 7: to see him when they brought him into the area.
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: And he was.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Evil.
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: He was Satan personified.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: When you were caught, was it a relief experience?
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: No, no, it wasn't a relief.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Were you angry because it meant you probably wouldn't be
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: the killer again?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: No, I wasn't angry. Life got very complicated.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: How did your wife react to you being arrested?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Well, at first she wanted to stay with me, but
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: I basically understood that I was over, I was done with.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: But did she ask you if it was true?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. And the first time she asked me, I
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: lied to her. She knew I had problems. But not
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: this kind of thing? You know, she just didn't know
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: how deep it was. You know, I'm sure she must
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: have suspected. I mean, not that I had done that,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: but after I'd gotten arrested, that, yeah, okay, that's him.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: We've been talking now for over an hour, but I
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: was yet to see any real sign of emotion from
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Bernard Giles. So I wonder, how will he react when
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: I show him a picture of the daughter he hasn't
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: seen in 45 years?
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: You seem, when it comes to real emotions... Yeah. Pretty cold,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that a lot.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: When was the last time you cried about anything?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Braveheart. I saw the movie Braveheart.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: When?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: 1998, 99, someplace along in there.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: That's 20 years ago.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Been a while.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And why did that make you cry?
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Hollywood presents this really pristine picture of a human being,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: what you sort of wish you could be. You know,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: this perfect human being. And I was basically crying because
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I was mourning my life.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Bernard Giles was just 20 when he was caught. He
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: avoided the death penalty by agreeing to confess to all
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: five murders. But he will confess. die in prison. Soon
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: after the killings, his wife and daughter left the trailer
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: park and moved out of the state. He would never
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: see them again.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: You lost a wife, you lost your daughter.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I lost everything.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: You lost everything, yeah. Was it worth it, this?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: No, of course not.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: And do you know what happened to your daughter? Have
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: you ever heard from her?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, sir.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: How does that make you feel?
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: What can you do with that?
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: We had a picture.
• 37:21
  Speaker 8: Look. There.
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: Yep.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: What do you feel when you see your daughter?
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know exactly.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: When you look at your own daughter that age, smiling, innocent, happy...
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: What do you feel about the young women you killed?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I don't put those together.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, what would you feel about a man who
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: snatched your daughter and terrorized and raped and killed her?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I totally wouldn't appreciate it.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: That's it? That's how you'd feel?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I certainly wouldn't appreciate it.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: You've never apologized.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: To who?
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Who do you think you should apologize to?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question. I assume that to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the families of the victims.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: I think, I mean, it should be incumbent on you
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: as the perpetrator of the crime to work out who
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: you think you maybe should apologize to. I mean, you killed,
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: by your own admission, these five young women. Who do
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: you think you owe an apology to?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: If I were going to apologize to anybody, it would
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: be the families.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Have you ever done that?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I don't feel I have the right. How do you,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: you know, when you get a letter in the mail
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: from the person who killed your daughter, right? Hey, I'm sorry.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: They may well be watching this, those families. I mean,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: if you look at that camera, if they are watching,
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: what would you say to them?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I really don't know what to say, truthfully.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, don't say it to them, say it to them.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: What do you say to somebody that you've murdered a
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: member of their family?
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: It isn't the very least you could say.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Is I'm sorry?
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Isn't that the very least you could do? It's just
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: to actually own.
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: Of course I'm sorry.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: The fact that we're having this conversation in this way. Yes,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: Here's an opportunity for you to speak to the families
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: of these victims.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: What would you say? What's your response?
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: He doesn't say anything.
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: He just says, what can I say? I, you know,
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: I could say, I'm sorry, which isn't even saying, I'm sorry.
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: It's basically saying that's what I could say, but what
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: does it mean? The question is, what can you say
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: to the victim's families? In other words, make a connection here.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Give us a.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: Small piece of your soul to the victim's family. He
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: couldn't do it because I don't think that he even
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: has that capacity.
• 40:50
  Speaker 9: Titusville lost its innocence through the acts of, we called
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: him Bernard Eugene Giles. We always used the three names.
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: We started looking at everyone in a suspicious manner, and
• 41:04
  Speaker 9: we started locking our doors.
• 41:09
  Speaker 7: This guy lived in our area, had been schooled in
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: our area, and he did such a horrible thing Not once,
• 41:20
  Speaker 7: but many times. From then on, yes, I knew what
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: a serial killer was.
• 41:28
  Speaker 14: I'd probably like to sit down and talk to him,
• 41:30
  Speaker 14: you know, and say, where'd you go? Why'd you do this?
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: He says it was just a compulsion that he had
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: to kill.
• 41:40
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Wow. When you finish here with me, You know, I'll
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: go back to my normal life. And I'll, you know, I'll...
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: When I go.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Back to my hotel room this afternoon, I'll feel quite
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: unsettled by this encounter. When you go back to your
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: cell later, having talked about all this today with me, will.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: You have any feelings about it, really?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Probably.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: And what are they likely to be? I.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Truthfully, I have a great deal of respect for you.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: And it unsettles me just a little bit that you
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: have such a monstrous view of me.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: I have a complicated view because to me now, if
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what you'd done, when we had a
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: regular conversation about stuff going on in the news, I
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: would imagine we'd have a perfectly normal, rational, and probably
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: quite interesting conversation. But it's very, very hard to get
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: past what I know that you.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Did to these girls.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: It's very hard.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Not to feel that sense of just utter revulsion.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. And I understand that. I understand all of that.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for the interview.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: That was one of the most extraordinary encounters I've probably
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: ever had with anybody because on one level he's obviously
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: self-aware about what he did because he's just prepared to
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: admit everything. What he can't do is what I suspect
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: the families of these victims really want him to do
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: and that's explain it in a way that could bring
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: any kind of closure to them.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I just feel in the end that their loved ones,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: these poor girls, were just in the wrong place at
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the wrong time and met an unbelievably dangerous person. And
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: it's as simple as that. And as heartbreaking as that.