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John Boney - Navigating Life After Divorce · Quarterback DadCast | Intentional Fatherhood & Leadership at Home

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Riley.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm Ryder.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_05: And this is my dad's job.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_05: Hey everybody, it's Casey Jackson with the Quarterback Dadcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to season six.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I cannot be more excited to have you join me for another year of fantastic episodes of Conversations with unscripted and raw and authentic conversations with dads.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_05: If you're new to this podcast, it's simple.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's a podcast where we interview dads, we learn about how they were raised, we learn about the life lessons that were important to them, we learn about the values that are important to them, and really we learn about how we can work hard to become a better quarterback or leader of our home.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_05: So let's sit back, relax, and listen to today's episode of the Quarterback Dadcast.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, hey everybody, it's Casey J.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_05: Cox with the Quarterback Dadcast, and we are in season six.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm grateful uh for the all the support from all you guys and maybe a few moments up there, a few listen, maybe around part two.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh but our next guest, as we get really wrap up season six, is someone who I met through my my friends at Forest Management, who I have I have so much respect for.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: I had a chance to work with them at the tail end of my corporate career.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: I met some fantastic people uh to highlight a few of the one known as Rachel Todd Miller and the one known as John Kaplan.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: And um I heard uh this next guest, a guy named John Boney, on a podcast with Rachel from Force Management, uh Revenue Builders Podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: Actually, no, just the force management podcast pardon me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_05: And he really just I I love his curiosity.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I loved his style.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: I I knew that he was a tech systems guy, which intrigued me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_05: He's a basketball guy.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna learn about his hook shot that he once took down Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: Find out, find out if that's true.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but joking aside, we're gonna learn about John the Dad and how he's working hard to become that ultimate quarterback or leader of his household.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_05: Without further ado, Mr.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_05: Boney, welcome to the quarterback techcast.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you very much.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to be here and uh have the conversation we're gonna have.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, did you have a sky hook?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: I did not have a sky hook.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: That that was not a shot in my repertoire.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I had the infamous turnaround jump shot.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was my go-to.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, Larry Bird.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a little post player.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: Nice.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, in a little and post player, that's like uh Freud.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wasn't so little.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm you know, six, seven.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of average size when we're playing.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, six, seven.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if I want to take that charge, Sean.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, well, we always start out each episode with gratitude.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: So tell me, what are you most grateful for as a dad today?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I am grateful for the fact that I am blessed to have three kids that are all adulting right now that are uh successfully finding their way through life.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well balanced.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I'm sure we'll get into the conversation, but well-balanced kids that are um just out there adulting, you know, living life and figuring it out.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm couldn't be more grateful for that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: What a feeling.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_05: I can't.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a few years behind you.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: I'm getting close to that feeling, fingers crossed.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm grateful for uh the last few days.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: We are in recording in September 10th today.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_05: This episode will come out in a few weeks, as I mentioned.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm grateful for the stage of life where um this entrepreneurial journey found me.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: I did not mean to start it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and uh it's given me the flexibility to make sure I don't miss things that are massively important to me.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: And yesterday, the last two days, we watched my son or our son compete in a college golf tournament, and they played so they play 36 holes day one with no break.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like you start on like he started on four and you just no you start on two and you just keep going.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Keep playing.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so you're trying to get I mean you're trying to keep ahead of your food, your hydration.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Coaches are doing their best job, and we're we walked a little bit, took the cart a little bit, but he went 69.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_05: Tough around, he shot 77 second, second round, but then ended up with 74.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_05: First event as a fr sophomore.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_05: I think he took 20, he's like tied for 20th or something.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_05: But just watching him grind, and I don't know if you're a golfer, but as a golfer, uh one of my favorite pieces of golf advice that Roy McElroy shared with us is he says in three words, golf is hard.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_05: And yes, it is.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, we all want to hit it in the fairway, we all want to make a pretty putt.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_05: But it was just so fun watching the um the growth mentally, and um, so I uh I decided to shake it up.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, you know what?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm going to California this weekend.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna go watch them again.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm so grateful for that because I and when I'm 75 or 80, I won't regret doing that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, you will not.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, um it's the there's nothing better than watching your kids compete in whatever it is that they're doing.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care if it's music, dance, golf, tennis, basketball, whatever it is, just watching them go through the process of learning and competing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just such a fun thing.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So take advantage of that while you can because it absolutely comes to an end at some point.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've experienced that too.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've experienced that too.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_05: Well, before we dive into that, um bring me inside.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_05: So we said we got three kids, but bring me inside the you're the quarterback.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_05: I'm guessing the wife might be the general manager, but bring me inside the bony huddle.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh probably gonna take a turn that you didn't expect.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm divorced.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I got uh separated in 2017, and uh we officially divorced in 2023, end of December 2023.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that was you know probably the toughest time of my life that I've gone through.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was a tough experience, and again, why I'm so grateful for where my kids are.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it doesn't matter if the kids are young, if they're teenagers, or if they're in or post-college, um, divorce has an effect on people.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and um, you know, I'm very fortunate that um my ex-wife and I have still have a rapport and a relationship that uh you know we co-parent together and the things that as they're adults now, where we need to co-parent.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: My oldest just got engaged, so we're dealing with wedding stuff and all that fun stuff that's gonna be happening next May.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, we still communicate on a regular basis and work through the challenges that we need to work through as a family.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, just very blessed that uh I've got kids that are as well grounded as they are, that you know, as we all know, that can take a hard left turn um when you're going through a family challenge like that.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: So um we we gave it our valent effort.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: We you know, we were together for 25 years married.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um we continued to work on our relationship and mend things for another four years um once we separated and then kind of came to the conclusion that uh things were where they were.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um we we you know decided to to go through the divorce process, and um here we are.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a different life for me now, and I'm I'm figuring that out, the journey along the way.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: So again, that took a turn from the question that you had asked.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but there's a lot of life lessons that were learned along the way as we as we went through that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_05: What was the biggest lesson you learned?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh priorities.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So just listening to you talk about, you know, where you're you know, spending the time with your kids and the entrepreneurial ship that you've gotten that found you.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think what I learned and the change that I made and how I got the force management was I was still in that corporate world chasing the next position, the next role, the next thing, the next bonus, the next increase, whatever it is.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um that was affecting me at home.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, it was a grind and it was 24, you know, it was on my mind 24-7.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um what I had to learn from that and what I had to change was I had to find something that was gonna bring me joy and happiness.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um that's when I called John Kaplan, as you mentioned his name earlier, um, and said, Hey, you know, I told you at some point I'd work for your organization, now's the time.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you know, it's been it's been awesome, and it's given me balance and the ability to go and visit my kids and travel and see some other things and do some other stuff.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's been it's that that was probably the biggest lesson, one of the biggest lessons that I learned is I need to prioritize and figure out what's important.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I I think if you were, if if people were, if we're if there's a we call an NFL coach scouting my podcasting and giving me feedback like, bro, you gotta have all these pre-planned questions up front.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_05: True, I get that.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_05: But sometimes, like, I I didn't know that, and I really, really appreciate you being vulnerable and honest because I think what you just shared is gonna massively speak to a dad at home, someone who's going through that or is on the path to go through that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_05: And your your authenticity and vulnerability, John, was freaking gold, and I commend you for that because when we get married, no one says, Man, I can't wait in 28 years, we're gonna get divorced.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_05: That's the that's the next goal.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_05: Let's chip away and make sure we have money.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_05: But it happens, it happens a lot in life.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I've interviewed of 37, 18 dads I've interviewed, I've interviewed quite a few who've gone through divorce.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_05: I've gone through some who have really embraced co-parenting.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_05: I've interviewed some that have really struggled.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_05: I've interviewed remember Kenny Lofton from the Cleveland at the time meetings now the Guardians.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: He talked about the challenges of divorce when he was when their kids were younger, and how I didn't know this, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: But like um just the challenges of the court system and the challenges of like with with um uh getting custody and how that how I mean it's essentially saying it's sacked against us dudes.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_05: And and hearing that, you know, it's because it's easy just to have an opinion from the sideline saying, oh really, but listening to him, like, oh my god, like it it was tough.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_05: And he said the only reason why he was able to make through it he had money.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh you know again, very, very fortunate the way we work through things.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was a very anarchical type of uh separation and divorce.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't lawyer up, we didn't do all the stuff that can happen.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's tough, and it's you know, it would it many would probably put themselves in the position of, you know, I just lost X, therefore I need to get back into the corporate runaround so I can go make up X again.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's not the mentality I have.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, you know, at this point in my life, uh it's about giving back and see how I can, and again, force management allows me to do this.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: How can I take the things that I've learned, the mistakes that I've made, and the successes that I've had?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's more learning from the mistakes that we make than anything else, and apply that to other people that are going through this journey and um you know, helping them along the way, wherever they may be, just kind of meet them where they are.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so there, you know, a lot of changes came through that.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: But again, you know, to your question, the the gratefulness I have for my kids being as well grounded as they are.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's uh praise that every day.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_05: Another thing I didn't mention my intro, but I want to mention now just a um is you you said you said the phrase giving back.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_05: You could see that sense of um what's the word?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like I you know, I call it a boomerang mindset when you're serving without keeping score.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_05: I could hear it in your voice when you first talked to Rachel.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_05: I heard it when we did a little short prep.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_05: I heard I hear it again today.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I think Force Manager's grateful.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: I know they're they're lucky they got you and happy they have you, and all the clients that sales leaders that get get to work with John.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_05: I hope you're taking notes and uh I hope you you know you got a good one in this facilitator that's gonna work with you, your company.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: But before we get into that, let's talk about each kid.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: Highlight a little bit about where where they're each at, um, maybe a sport or an activity that really was their their favorite growing up.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I this this could take the next hour.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I got um three kids, two girls uh are the older two, and my son's the younger.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: So Amanda's my oldest.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: She's uh she'll be 29 in December, and uh just got engaged on Memorial Day weekend.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she is working at Tech Systems, lo and behold, ironically enough, she uh didn't intentionally follow me into the staffing industry, but she's there.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's been there for about five years now and doing really well, um, enjoying her time while she's there.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um she played soccer all through high school and won a state championship while she was in high school.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and you know, loved watching her compete, watching her play her games and do her thing, and she still says stays very active, not so much with soccer, but just fitness in general.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, she does one of those club passes where it goes from you know in Pilates, doing yoga, doing orange theory classes.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they've got a also got a one and a half-year-old uh lab puppy that uh she spends a lot of time walking and exercising when she can.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then her fiance is an avid golfer.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um he uh played football at Wake Forest.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: He was uh a wide receiver while he was there and uh plays a ton of golf.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh they live in Charleston, South Carolina, so that's that's my oldest.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then my middle, um Sarah is her name.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: She is 26 and um she played lacrosse through college.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: She played at American University in Washington, DC.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, loved watching her compete through those.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I said those years that you know you have the chance to watch your son compete in college.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a special time.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh anytime is, but you know, watching them compete at that level is is just a cool thing to do.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So uh she played five years there, took her COVID year, and got a master's degree, uh, a one-year master's degree while she was still in school.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she's still currently living in the DC area, uh, working for Signa Health.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh again, thriving.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: She's um working on getting her coaching um, I don't know what you call it, her coaching license, I guess, with Orange Theory.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: She also does that and runs and stays, you know, keeps herself in shape.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then my son, uh Michael, he's in Charlotte, and um he is also working for Tech Systems.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's been there for about seven months.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I had nothing to do with that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: He uh he came out of school, he graduated from JMU, um, James Madison University, and his first job was an internship with the Pittsburgh Steelers, and uh they don't really hire many people full-time, and so he said, Dad, I think I can make more money out of this sports world.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm gonna go check out this recruiting world.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So he moved to Charlotte.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's uh working for Tech Systems, and again, he uh he played basketball through college, uh not through college, through high school.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh still plays in pickup leagues and things like uh pickup league, pickup games as well as men's leagues, and then um he has gotten into running 10Ks and half marathons and gets into the gym four or five days a week and has a good group of friends that also graduate from James Madison down in the Charlotte area.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: So he is uh he they're all three doing, as I said, they're all doing really well.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the the family business and staffing's taking shape.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, it's something.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: Well, ironically, my wife's at Orange Theory right now.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: So there you go.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: So uh that's a great workout.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: I did it for a long time.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_05: I did CrossFit for a long time, and now I do old man CrossFit, which is to not get fat and not get hurt, but I found myself getting hurt.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I have the worst freaking tennis golfers, some kind of elbow issue going on right now, and I have no idea.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like literally two days ago, I couldn't even straighten my elbow.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, that's not good.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: And then and then the next day it's fine, a little pain, but but then it goes and then I'm just getting like lightning down my arm.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_05: So I don't know if it's just like really bad tendonitis or they might they might need to amputate it, I think.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, the things that start creeping up on us as we get a little older, especially after you know, playing years of football or basketball or whatever the sport is, you know, the body starts taking a toll on various things.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's so frustrating.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: It is.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: It's just like, I mean, and I'm now I remember hearing people talk about this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_05: Now I'm that guy.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'm almost 50, and now I'm not I'm that dude.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, oh yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: Back in 82, you know, it's straight Uncle Rico stuff where but I'm I'm not giving in.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: I still like I still even though I can't work out like what I want to do, I did a weighted vest walk this morning, did a weighted vest plank workout.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, is it what I want to do?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: No, but it's better than most.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's exactly that's what I've relegated myself to.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't run anymore, I don't play basketball anymore.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm knee preservation mode.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I uh put on the weighted vest and I go for a walk with my puppy and um get on the Peloton and do some lightweight workout, and that's about it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, there we go.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I want to learn about John uh the kid.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: Take me back to what was life like growing up for you and the impact mom and dad had on you from a values perspective.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really good.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I grew up in a small town outside of Pittsburgh, uh little town called Latrobe, Pennsylvania.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a few things that that little town is known for, um, some famous things that it's known for.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: One first professional football team was was born there in 1933.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Arnold Palmer is from Latrobe, Pennsylvania.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Rogers is from Latrobe, Pennsylvania, as well as the first banana split ever made.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a beer drinker, you probably had a rolling rock or two.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's where originally rolling rock was brewed.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in that little small town of 11,000 people.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, didn't spend my entire growing up there.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was transferred quite a bit, was not in the military, um, but we moved around.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: We spent uh when I was in second grade, we moved to LA for two years.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was just a two-year stint.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: He was sent out there to rebuild a plant that was struggling with the company he was with.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: We came back to La Trobe uh two years later.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I was going into the fourth grade at that time, went back to the same house, same neighborhood, same everything.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't sell it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: We knew we were coming back.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then um the first and only job company change that my dad had was me going into my sophomore year of high school.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: He took a job with Siemens, and uh we moved to Toronto, Canada.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Not the thing that I wanted to do going into my sophomore year uh was to you know be yanked out of high school for you know being a basketball player.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: We were projected to be a pretty darn good team.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then uh we moved to Toronto and uh finished high school up there.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm the youngest of two three brothers, and uh so my older brothers both graduated from Latrobe High School.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I graduated from Martin Grove, Martin Grove Collegiate Institute in Toronto, Ontario.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um but really good upbringing.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: We were you know very fortunate.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're a middle class, you know, upper middle class family, I would say, in a great neighborhood with a lot of good families around us.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all the things that uh you probably find online right now with you know, go out and play, kick the can until the bikes come on, or you know, when you hear the whistle blow, that's when it's time to come home, or whatever the case may be.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: We grew up in a neighborhood like that where the bikes are running around the neighborhood, go off and do your thing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, we were we were raised to have you know respect for our elders and uh loyalty.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: My dad changed companies once in in his lifetime.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was with Tech Systems for 20 years.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um my brothers both worked for Alcoa for 20 years and both worked for Novellas, both aluminum companies, for another 10 to 12 years.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there's you know, there's a lot that goes on with that, and um also taught us how to be competitive and and and you know, be on time.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Dad's yeah, to tell you a funny story.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So dad passed away December of last year, and um he uh he was a stickler for being on time, and when this whole world of remote virtual stuff started happening, it was hard for him to comprehend.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, just not being face to face with people and being able to touch them and shake their hands and run into them in the hallway and have a quick conversation.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's funny is that when he would have a meeting, uh he would lock the door at the time the meeting started.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were late, you weren't getting in.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so you know, when it was time for dinner and you know, he was coming home from work and dinner was at 6 30, we we needed to be there at 6 30.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if we had a tea time, he would take us out as kids to go play golf.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: We had a tea time, and the tea time was 8 10 in the morning.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: He expected us to be there at 10 minutes to eight, ready to go.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So oftentimes he would finish playing his round with his buddies, and then we'd be at the pool.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: He would uh, you know, hey, we'll we'll go play nine with just the kids.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if we had a tea time at 4:15, we needed to be on the tea at 4 o'clock.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if we weren't, Cart was gone.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: He was out.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, be on time, follow the rules, don't walk across my putting line and uh rake the trap.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: Were you guys a big golf family growing up?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: We were.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh dad played every weekend.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I started playing when I was a little kid.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think we all did.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I stopped for a while when I was in high school uh just because my friends in Toronto just weren't golfers, so I just didn't play much when I was in high school.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and in college for that matter, I think I was so focused on both class and and you know basketball activities that I just didn't play a whole lot of golf and then got back into it post.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can probably see behind me the couple of flags that I got hanging there.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: I'm jealous.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for bringing it up again.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_05: He's got a master's flag, everybody, hanging up, just teasing me.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Tell you a funny story, again, a dad story.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I told you that Arnold Palmer is from La Trope PA.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, dad is uh dad was friends with him, um, was at uh his second wedding, and was they were at their his funeral um when he passed.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, my dad was at the masters in 2006.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was sitting on the board for a company in St.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Louis, and my brother took him to the Masters.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're standing and you know, the four the four kings tee off as they always do, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're walking from one to two, my dad's standing on the appropriate side behind the ropes, and Arnie stops.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, picture this you got my dad standing next to his customer who he's sitting on the board with, right?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then my brother, and then his customer, and Arnie walks by and says, Hey Bill, how you doing?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Stops and talks to him for like 10 minutes.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And just what's been going on?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where you been?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: When are you coming back to Latrobe?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: When are we gonna be able to hang out again?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the customer's mouth, as you can imagine, just drops.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what what just happened?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you know him?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, they had a you know, they had a relationship.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: They were, you know, they used to be at his house and hang out with him and got a bunch of pictures with him and all kinds of fun stuff.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: So wow, how did they meet?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because so Arnie's um primary residence at the time was Latrobe.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that was his that was his course.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: His his brother Deacon was the pro for the longest time at Latrobe Country Club.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's dad, a little bit about dad.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then mom, you know, fortunate enough, mom stayed home and raised us kids when dad was traveling and working, and yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: So she got us to and from all the different sports events.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was a little different back then.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: She'd get us to the bus stop, and then the bus would take us to where we were going, and the bus would bring us back.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, back when they had activity buses.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we would just walk home.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, mom was uh, you know, she is.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I actually just dropped her off at the airport this morning.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's 90 years old, flying to Nashville to go see my brother.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: Out of curiosity, what date did your dad pass away?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_05: December 23rd.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_05: My dad passed away December 29th, 2021.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I was gonna be like, this is gonna be eerie if it's the same day.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was uh you know, it you know my brothers and I talk about this fairly frequently.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: If uh if you're gonna go, he went the right way.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um he was living a full life.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they were on their way out to dinner with friends of theirs, and my mom was going to get the car to pull up and have him hop in, and he kind of he fell down.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: We took him to the hospital and um they ran some tests and kept him in there for two for about four days, sent him back to uh the their in an assisted living center, so they sent him back to the nurse care center uh within the f within the place that they live, and then um he was kind of wandering around the hallways and they had to send him back because his blood pressure had dropped dramatically, and then two days later he passed away.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, again, nothing good about anybody passing, but he was living a full life, and you know, he kind of went out without a six-month, nine-month, ten-month, two-year struggle of you know, dealing with all of that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So very fortunate that uh, you know, I live close to my parents and was able to have all the conversations I wanted to be able to have and talk to my dad about things, about life, about you know challenges he and I had growing up.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh very fortunate for that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: So cool.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Kathy Ortone.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the director of talent management at Co-Work Staffing Services.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Co-Works is one of the largest staffing firms in the United States.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: With operations in all 50 states, over 60,000 temporary field talent.
• 25:54
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• 25:58
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• 26:08
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• 26:22
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• 26:28
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• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: KC is funny, he is a few, and he is a full to fall.
• 26:35
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• 26:40
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• 26:45
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• 26:51
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• 26:55
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• 27:02
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• 27:09
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• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get back to the podcast.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_05: How um were you able to be there with when he passed by chance?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: We was uh my brothers both flew in, one's in Nashville, oldest one's in Nashville, middle ones in Atlanta.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, hey guys, you need to get up here and be here for as long as you can.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, I was there every day with my mom, and you know, they were there when when they could get there.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, they live uh mom and dad live 15 minutes away from me.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that was the my dad, see my dad passed away.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: He's the only person I've ever been around that's passed away, other than a dog.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_05: But um I mean last breath, I was with him.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_05: And it's surreal.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: So surreal.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: But like I don't know if you had this, but like I remember there was like at one point my dad like was so unfortunately he had the opposite of what your dad went through.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: He had like Alzheimer's dementia, heart failure, kidney issues, alcoholism, bipolar.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he had the rap sheet rather, rap sheet.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_05: And but at the end, all that negative and challenge and stress and all these things kind of went away.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I then I went from like because it was during COVID.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: I remember at one point, like we had you know, had mass selling in the in the sister facility, and I remember he's kind of like, he's kind of looking up.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I go, and he couldn't really communicate that well, but for some reason, for about a week he could.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_05: I go, Dad, what what what are you looking at?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: He's like, he points, he points to his mom, my grandma, who I did not know that well.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I always joke, she was no, and I don't mean that to offend anybody, I probably will an accident, but she was a Jehovah's Witness.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_05: Talking about getting screwed out of birthday cards as a kid growing up because Jehovah did Jehovah's Day was so I'm like, come on, grandma, you couldn't like wait till I got out of high school, like hook a hook a brother up with a birthday card.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, I digress, but he saw her in the room.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: Tripped me out.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: She's I was like, is grandma here?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_05: She's like, Yep.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_05: Any points?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, what in the hell?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: And um, I mean, things like that were eerie.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_05: And then I remember then at the end we couldn't talk.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_05: I wrote on a little notepad of my phone.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_05: I wrote, I said, you know, hey dad, um, you know, God loves you.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_05: Cause I was like, he was in pain.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, and I was we were struggling.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, Dad, just you gotta go, brother.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's time.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_05: Remember saying, God loves you.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_05: I said, you know, you can go, you you know, when you're ready, go.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_05: He's like, he looks at me, he's like, I'm not ready yet.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_05: Close, but not ready yet.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: It was like the most eerieus feeling ever to go through.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_05: And then I remember like they called me like the morning he passed away, and he was like, We had a snowstorm, of course, nearly, and I just freak, I said, screw it, I'm going.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_05: And got there with like 20 minutes to spare.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_05: And um I end up then after when he passed away, I was there, and I end up when I got home.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_05: I wrote, I just felt this urge to write, and I wrote a little, you know, blog, whatever you want to call it.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_05: It was called The Final Whistle.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_05: It's kind of like a sports.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: Metaphor.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, I was there to the final whistle.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_05: And then I said, screw, I'm in that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: I I recorded it and uh it I published it on this podcast.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like it's like a 12-minute, and um that was very therapeutic to go through, but anyway, so I know it's this podcast about you, but you inspired me to share that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's you know, it's it's life, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: We we just as we get older, obviously our parents and things start happening, and you know, being there for those moments is really hard, but it is um you know, these are the things that continue to shape you, right?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's things that shape us when we're kids that make us into the young adults, and then there's things that shape us when we're young adults that make us the wiser adults, I think.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, we we kind of revert back to being a kid again and have somebody else take care of us.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where did your um love of basketball come from?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Probably from my brother.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so my my middle brother Tom, who lives in Atlanta, uh, he played at St.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Bonaventure.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I played at Loyola in Baltimore, and uh he started playing, and um I kind of followed his footsteps to a certain extent.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, two different styles the way we played.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, he was uh we were competitive with each other, we're three years apart.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um he would beat the live and tar out of me in the driveway on a daily basis.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then all my friends, you know, the kids that I grew up with in that small town, we all played.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: We were up at the middle, you know, at the uh elementary school parking lot where the basketball court was every day.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we would just play and play and play and go through shoes like it was our job.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just fell in love with the game.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was uh for the longest time, it was the one place that I knew I could get away, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like just mentally, like nothing else mattered.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't think about anything else, it was just playing basketball.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I, you know, I kind of followed along with what I was learning from him, and he was the town hero.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he was always in the paper.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: He was, you know, he was uh playing the Dapper Dan when he was in high school, uh, back when that was a big time tournament.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I wanted to emulate that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I had an opportunity.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think probably one of the best things that happened to me was that move that took me to Toronto with my family.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because then I wasn't underneath his shadow.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody knew who he was.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: I just it was just me.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to figure it out on my own rather than oh, you're Tom's little brother.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he would drag me down to the pickup games that he would go to.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: He was, you know, a sophomore in high school, and I was three years younger, and I'd go play against the older kids, and you know, a little different than today's world where we try to reclassify kids to go playing with younger kids.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, just fell in love with the game and uh had a goal that I wanted to play in college and was able to accomplish that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_05: So cool.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so you go to the Great White North.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, had you watched Strange Brew at this point in your life?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: I had, yes.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_05: I have a fantastic movie, by the way.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_05: If you've not watched Strange Brew, everybody go watch it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's actually probably one of the worst film movies ever, but it's so funny if you have a bad sense of humor like me.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that journey of growth, which no one wants to move, you move obviously the the blessings that you saw coming out of it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: As you reflect about now, as you reflect back now thinking about it, um can you were you able to pull any like life lessons or learning experiences as a father that maybe helped you as a dad?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, you know, as a father, I think probably the the concept of perseverance really set in.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was taught to us as a kid, but I think I really learned it while I was there.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know how to try to instill that amongst my own kids.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, while I was working for tech systems, we moved six times in a nine-year time frame.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just going, you know, go from one office to the other, leading the sales team, so on and so forth.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so my oldest had to move six times.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other, the others were less than that, but she moved six times.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the the challenge of making new friends and going into a new school and trying out for a new team, all of that was, you know, put in mind over matter.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you help your kids get through that?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's kind of hard for me to, it's hard for me to comprehend those that have been fortunate enough to live and grow up in the same household, same town, never moved, all the same friends, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I can't, it's hard for me to comprehend that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm at times jealous of it, and at times I'm I'm not because I was able to learn so much from different cultures, different people, diversity, um, different environments that you're in.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I go from a small town of 11,000 people in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, which had very little diversity, to now I'm in Toronto, which is a melting pot.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a massive city.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to figure out how to navigate that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, it's all those things can be applied to, you know, when you're raising your kids, and how do you help them acclimate whether it's to a new school that they're walking into, a new town that we're living in, a new neighborhood that we're going to, a college that they're going to go to, you know, whatever it may be, a giant classroom that they're in that they're used to having 20 kids in, and now there's 150.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you how do you navigate that?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you focus and persevere through the challenges that are there?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_05: When you were moving your family, um, I'm sure was at times hard on the kids at times, you know, were you able to ever like vulnerably share some of your challenges when you moved as a kid to like kind of meet them where they were in?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, those moves that we went through, that I went through, you know, again, I think I might have said this earlier, that I did not want to go to Toronto, Canada.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had some really good friends, and I probably was a little bit humble when I said this, but we were projected the class that we were a part of in that small town were projected to win the state championship by the time we were juniors.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they did.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so knowing that they did, which is awesome, super happy for all of them, um, but I wanted to be a part of that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I, you know, fought my parents and didn't want to be a part of it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we were moving the kids around, we got to a point where when they were in high school, the moving stopped.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: That that's when I started saying no.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: I should have said no, probably two moves prior to that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I didn't, as I was chasing, and you know, the next opportunity, the next thing, the bigger office, the more, you know, all the stuff that goes with it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think the lesson that was there is um, especially with the kids, as they start entering into you know, relationships, and you know, especially my oldest, you know, she's gonna start having kids at some point.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when is it, when do you settle?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: When do you just settle down?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where things are gonna be.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I think that that to me was one of the bigger lessons to learn is that when I started saying no is when, you know, I started really starting figuring out where's where's the priority, what am I doing, where where are things going?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: The next move was supposed to be Atlanta, and I said no.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that was when my 20 years came to an end.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_05: Well, good for you though, dude, because I know that um it's not easy to do that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um I I I I would didn't have that many opportunities to move.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_05: I had one, I said no.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I remember saying no early, even to like, because I was so stressed out as a dad, John.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: Where I I don't I've sort of apologize for everybody, you probably heard the story before.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if you have, but like year one or two when I was really starting to make a run at K Force, I was miserable as a dad because I was getting home.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_05: I only saw my kids for like 15 minutes a night.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, this is awful.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_05: How how it and I get that some people that's what you have to do, and but for some reason this voice in my head said, This is not how it should be.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember going to my boss and thank God Angela Ronica, if you're listening, girl, she's like, leave it for.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I can't.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: I said bank, leave it for.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like, she's like, You don't trust us?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Yeah, I do.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_05: She's like, then leave it for.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_05: We you're on your thing, it's called a cell phone, we can recheck.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_05: And that's where my career went hockey stick because I had balance.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I was present and bold.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_05: And sure there were stays with Charles, I'm sure it was not balanced, balance per se, but I could go, you know, you said you said the phrase checkout, you know, when you're playing Who.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_05: I remember when I was young, young dad coaching my kids, no one could reach me from 5, 6:30.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_05: It was the best feeling ever.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the phone gets left, right?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: When you're coaching your kids, the phone gets left.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's funny that you know, you talk about that stigma of leave early, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where you know today's world, they've figured that out.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think obviously some of that was forced through the pandemic and you know, people having a little bit more flexibility in what they can do.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: But the stigma, especially in the staffing world that we were in, of leaving at four, when you know the perception was peak call time was when people were getting home from work to be able to get a hold of candidates to be able to put them to work.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, right.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we all remember those days.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so the stigma from your peers was more the issue than it was anybody on leadership that was saying, yeah, man, go.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Go go do your thing.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's funny how, I mean, and definitely times change, and there's so many things we went through that are gonna be helpful, like even what your dad went through and your mom went through it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we can take bits a piece of these journeys, um, be open to change, but some of these fundamentals that they taught us are still gonna work.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and and we're in this we're in this phase of AI, and I'm still betting on this, John.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm still betting on this human connection that uh Me too.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's so either I joked with someone last week, I said, either I'm gonna be in a van down by the river, because I use AI, but I still believe that AI can't replicate what you and I are doing right now.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: The relationship can't be built through AI.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what it's doing is it's it's impeding critical thinking.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I talk about this all the time when I'm with clients that I'm working with, that people will say, Hey, you know, can we create trap setting questions or discovery questions through through AI?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: You absolutely can until you're sitting in front of the customer and you need to come up with a question on the spot.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do you do?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, excuse me, Mr.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: and Mrs.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Customer, hold on one second.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have to go to Copilot right now and put in what you just said so I can ask you the next question.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you can have some starter questions by leveraging AI, and you can have some starter information by leveraging AI, but the relationship is still gang.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the ability to think on the fly and critically think is the power.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_05: When you were raising your kids, you maybe think about when you were raising your kids, John.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, did you ever apply like TED-based questions that we both are taught to your kid on your kids?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and it it's something I talk again, I talk about this all the time when I'm with with different clients that I'm working with.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is you know, when we ask the questions, and I and I and I learned this through my relationship with John Kaplan, is that when we ask the question, you pick up your kids from school, and you know, as soon as they get in the car, how was school?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: You have any homework?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: How was your test today?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: You think you passed?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so you ask these questions, you get grunts in a response.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I'm working on, you know, when I when I'm talking to my kids, I try to, you know, I do, I try to try, I think it's more innate at this point where I ask, tell me about or explain to me, or describe to me what the hardest question on your test was, or explain what the funniest thing that happened to you today was.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and try to enter the conversation a different way.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I'll equate this back to what I'm working with.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Some of the clients that I'm working with, you know, don't, you know, this is a great thing to practice at home.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you're trying to figure out how to coach one of your sellers on discovery questions, start asking open-ended questions to your significant other, to your kids, to your parents, to your nieces and nephews, whoever it is, and see how the results change in the questions that you're asking.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I I am in a regular habit of asking the TED-based questions, tell explain, describe, walk me through with my with my kids, even as adults now, um, because they'll still, they can still grunt an answer back.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like cheat codes.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_05: Cheat codes.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, the the the wise Voltaire, um, back in the calling of 1500s, I think he might have been a sexist, someone helped him out.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_05: One of my favorite quotes, he said, A man or a woman is not judged by his or her answers, but by his or her questions.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_05: So in the 1500s, or close enough, whatever, but I don't, I'm sure there's a history major out there who's gonna call me out.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_05: No, it's 1486, close enough.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um curiosity still worked, everybody.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yet like the the questions you asked your kids in the beginning, which are the same questions I asked my kids before I learned about Ted, those are bad questions, closed-ended, not authentic, not genuine.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: And I what I even learned, I I kind of took a different set.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_05: I even put um like what John taught me the give to, take to.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_05: I put that into Ted.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_05: And so I said, Hey writer, hey Rud, tell me one thing that made you smile at school day.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_05: When you when you put a number in the question, I found them they have to give you something.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_05: Because even sometimes if it's too loose of a tech question, they can still blow by you.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_05: But for some reason, the human mind, when these when they hear a number, they go to the answer.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_05: And it gives you and us a chance to say, oh great, tell me more about that.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_05: Explain why that was.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it is freaking gold.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 43:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the question that you just asked because it wasn't about anything except what made you laugh, which gets your son or daughter more engaged in the conversation, then talk about the test you just took.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to talk about the test they just took.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do want to talk about what made them laugh.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: Or I sometimes one question I used to ask, like, hey, tell me if you could change one thing about school that would make school the best place to go everywhere.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_05: More recess, great.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me why.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: What would you do?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_05: The next thing you know, we're we're talking.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: And um, if there's a dad or mom at home listening right now, and you don't know what Ted Bay's question is, John just he he went into it, which is hands for tell me, explain, describe.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_05: I learned this from the great John Kaplan and his team.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like I'm a disciple of that now, sharing it with the world.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm great, I am forever grateful for that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh you know, I think these are my my hope is that when dads or moms listen to these pot these episodes, it's like we're not making this stuff up, you know, we're we're sharing journeys of where we struggled, and and you know, just because I have a podcast that says the quarterback dad cast, I I struggle each and every day as a dad.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I get anxiety, I get frustrated.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_05: I I selfishly, everybody, this is for free therapy for me every time I talk about fatherhood.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is the hardest, you know, being whether mother, father, hardest job.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: There is no manual on how to do it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Every day there are mistakes.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Every day you wish there's words that you could bring back and put them right back in your mouth again.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's how you learn.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: You learn, you know, said this before, that you learn from some of the mistakes that you make and uh you try not to make them again.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um, if you were to like summarize or think through, John, the um the top, I call it three values that you and your wife when you guys were together raising the kids that were really important to you, that you know, maybe a dad or mom was listening at home, they'd be like, hmm, I never thought about that one.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_05: Like, what were the what were the values that really stood out to you that really shaped and produced you know three very successful kids that are thriving right now?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I think um I don't know if I could do it in three words.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of them is um follow through on your commitments, right?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that perseverance, right?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like continue to follow through the things that you commit to do.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you know if you're gonna if you're gonna run if you're gonna say you're gonna run cross country, which the kids did, it wasn't their first choice, but you're gonna finish the season.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: So finish what you say that you're gonna do.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um loyalty, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Have you be loyal to the things that you do.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, all three kids finished the schools they started at and were able to stay true to that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh all have been in, uh two of my kids have been in uh per you know, one's engaged, but relationships, and they're you know, they've been in a couple of good relationships with people that just have good character, and I think that's the other word is is character matters.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, the the kids that they hung out with, they they chose the right kids.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we ended up having good friends with their parents, right?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just meeting good people.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, like my oldest, her closest group of friends not only went to NC State with her together, but many of them went to high school with her.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so you think about that, usually high school goes to, you know, they split off from college and then there's a whole new group of friends.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and and I could say the same thing for the other two.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: They've just got a good group of friends that they can rely on and trust.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my daughter that's in Arlington, Virginia, she's you know, some of her teammates, they're super close.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, they live together for four years and they stay together and visit each other on a regular basis and confide in each other and talk to each other.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then my son's got a great group of friends, not only from high school, but a new group of friends that he has met through James Madison that is just a good group of kids.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: That uh I like being around, all of them, like just their group of friends that they have.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy being around them just because of the camaraderie, the character that they have, the commitment that they have towards each other, yeah, the way they look out for each other.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you know, that character, perseverance, and what was the other word I said there?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: The commitment.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um loyalty, you said too.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the loyalty.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, those things are, you know, even though mom and I weren't able to work things out, um, you know, again, blessed that the kids have picked up on those things and and that's important to them.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the last thing I'll say that that I was late to this, Casey, and it's something that has become highly important to me, uh, their faith.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Their faith is very important.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: They, you know, they when we were as we've lived in Raleigh for the 20 years we've lived here, they went to a Catholic school, both uh elementary, middle, and and high school.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so their faith is important to them.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um it became important to me as we went through our separation.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was late to the game, um, but now it is a critical part of my life and uh where I prioritize things.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's been I said there's a couple of significant changes.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: That was one of the significant changes.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, not only did I make a complete about face in my career, but I also took a complete about face in my faith and uh got baptized as an adult.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_05: Very cool.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_05: I, you know, it's funny, faith is I wouldn't say it's um, I I I I don't want to say this.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: I don't go to church, not because I don't want to go to church.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just I'm a very spiritual guy though.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_05: Big time.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like I look at a Bible scripture every morning.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_05: Some days I have no idea what it means.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_05: Some days I'm like, ooh.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I do gratitude work every morning, and the first line every is God, thanks for waking me up today.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, for sure.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you hit the ground, it's a good day.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_05: What a start.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_05: I got a chance.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I had one of my like you were in my gratitude work this morning.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I'm grateful I have this podcast.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm grateful I get to talk to John, grateful I get to learn more about him, grateful, you know, just to learn and um grateful to have a chance to be a better dad today.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like I just I put speak truth into my mind to try to like figure out, you know, be the best version of me.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_05: But I think like faith is I don't know.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_05: Have you ever seen the movie um or the show Um The Righteous Gemstones?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's the Adam Sandler.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, it's um John Gooden.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_05: John no it's I mean it's a little raunchy and a little out there, you know, but I think for me, I love like where I'm at with like, and I'm reading actually a great book too.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_05: I think I asked you about you know Steve Garrety?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I'm reading Steve's book right now, Grapefruit.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_05: And Steve was a guest, and so like I'm learning about his faith journey, you know, going through cancer.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_05: And um I think the the the religion and spirituality, I I want to be like everyone's got their own version of faith.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think anybody's right.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_05: And like my kids, I I always might like talk to God, He's listening.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like, and the best part about prayer is like it's you can't get it wrong, just be genuine, be yourself, and that's exactly right.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Be consistent.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so that's cool that you're you're you're doing that, and um it's it this kind of ties back, you know.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: The it while all of that was happening from 17 through 23, a lot of negative thoughts, a lot, right?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: You can imagine all the things that can be running through your mind.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: You've talked to enough people and probably have friends that have gone through it, unfortunately.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's what's kept me grounded, you know.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: It it's that relationship and conversation that I have with God that allows me to have the belief or the the knowledge that all these negative thoughts that are running through my head aren't true.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: That and the phrase that I say to myself all the time is let go and let God.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's gold right there.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just just let it go and let God.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um it it's gotten me through and will continue to get me through the the the peaks and the valleys, you know, don't get too high, don't get too low.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you know, I uh it's it's got me through it all.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh have you ever heard the stat on how many thoughts we have a day as humans?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: I have, and I can't remember it off the top of my head, but it's a lot.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_05: You want to take a guess?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is what do I I want to say it's like 74,000 something.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I've heard, I mean, there's different stats.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_05: I've heard between um 80 to 90,000.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_05: And of those thoughts, do you know the percent that's negative?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_05: About 80.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_05: 75 to 85.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_05: So like I share that stat with sales teams all the time.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_05: I share it with my kids all the time.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_05: Once you know that to be true, then you know you don't have to believe those things.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like, I joke with my kids when I've also shared this with like clients I end up coaching this, I'll say, When that negative thought comes to mind, I want you to think about it as visual.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_05: Feel free to steal this if you want.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_05: Imagine you're on a bridge.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: I said this to my kids, I'll say it's like sales leaders, I said, imagine you're on a bridge.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_05: And on this bridge, it's a it's you know, you're it's only about a half mile long and it's old school.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_05: There's a bridge operator.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_05: And he or she, and it's dead stop traffic, you can't go anywhere.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_05: But he or she, it's like it's like that this is the test, emergency broadcast, hit your radio, and they say, Hey, just want to let you know, the bridge is fine.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_05: Uh we're gonna dead stop traffic, but it's only for 10 seconds and we'll be moving.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_05: I said, So in that moment, what's the likelihood that you're gonna roll your window down?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_05: Old school, not press the button, but roll your window down, and you're gonna look to your left or look to your right and introduce yourself to the car next to you.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_05: And the person's like, Well, no, why would I do that?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_05: I go, exactly.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_05: But that's the car to your left and car to your right, that's a negative thought.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_05: I want you to extend both middle fingers and just put them up like this, say, I ain't talking to you, I ain't listening to you.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_05: And stay focused on the task head, focus on what you want to do, focus on what you believe you will do, which is one of the most underrated words in life.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to John Kaplan for freaking enlightening that, firing me.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that now I've I share with my kids all the time.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_05: I always say, believe what you do matters.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: Believe.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: Believe what you do matters.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_05: That I mean, that is such a goal that if kids can hear that from their parents, whether you're in math or ceramics or freaking barista at Starbucks.
• 54:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_05: Be the best.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_05: Believe you're the best.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: When you're when your son or any of your kids, right, when they go off and they do their what it's a test, competitive golf, whatever it is, what are the last words you say to them?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_05: I love you.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_05: I just I said be your best.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_05: Don't be the best, be your best.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's uh before the kids would play, there was um kind of a phrase that I would say to them before every game or wherever they were headed.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Have fun, work hard.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love you.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it was whether it was a text message to my daughter in college or it was a text message to my son when he was, you know, finishing up his classes, or my daughter when he finished up his classes in high school, they would get that text, or they'd get a voicemail, or they would hear from me directly.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, have fun, work hard.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love you.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_05: Consistency.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: Your parents taught you that.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_05: Now you're you're you're you're setting the elevator back down, brother.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it's funny.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm not really sure my parents said that to me before every game.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: Usually when I would come out of a game, my dad would say to me, He's like, Yeah, that's great.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: You had 22 points.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: The guy you recovered had 20, so you're only good for two points to your team.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do next time?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was doing the opposite.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, well, uh I I think what you did though is what people, dads can can learn from and emulate.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it's the consistency of how we show up and remembering that like we I've had a lot of episodes about this, John.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's like we can't live vicariously through our kids.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's their journey, not ours.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and doing what you just did.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you could have been like, oh, you know, basketball, this and psycho intense.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but it's like you're focusing on those things that matter.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_05: And um and life's a journey, right?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I think we're all going through it, this journey together.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: There's to your point, there's no manual, there's no script.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I think what I'm learning a lot of this conversation just think true to being curious, thinking true to being your authentic self.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, when we go through these struggles, you got faith, which is always gonna be there for you.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_05: You got friends.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_05: You don't need to have a microphone and podcast to talk about this stuff, everybody.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_05: Phones still work.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_05: Pick if you're struggling, pick up the phone.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_05: Call somebody.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_05: Hey man, I'm struggling.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_05: Can you help me out?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_05: And if the friends, if they're your friends, they'll help you.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: If more people did that in the world we're in today, we'd be in a different place.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: Not we internalize, we hold on to it, and then you know, we see what we see on the news and read what we read online.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's it's uh if we pick up the phone and just say, Hey man, I need some help.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that takes vulnerability and courage to do that.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_05: And we're all struggling.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's exactly right.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_05: We are all struggling, everybody.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like, and just because that's why I love it.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_05: I have a love-hate relationship with social media.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_05: Social media makes everything, oh my god, it's the best.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_05: We're all doing great.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, we're not.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_05: No, we're not.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone has some struggles, and um I think these are things, important lessons to teach our kids.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's like it's easy to text, but picking up the phone, and like, for example, here's another lesson I got last night.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_05: We'll tie this up, we'll wrap up real quick.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so the reason why my son's playing golf in college was our former golf pro opened up a door for him at he's going to school at school school called Southern Oregon.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, kind of an under the under-the-radar guy, good family.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_05: I like his dad.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh if you give his kid a chance, he'll come play for you.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, God, I've got a lot of pressure in my mind.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, shit, I hope.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_05: And knock on wood, thankfully, it's working out great.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_05: He he saw something in my son that I didn't see as much.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_05: And so I'm like telling Ryder last night, I said, Hey, great first tournament.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_05: That was a blast watching you.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_05: I go, who tell me who you think we need to be grateful for.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_05: Went through a list and I said, Who else?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_05: I kept asking Ted Bay's question, tell me who else.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me he's like, Mr.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_05: Manley.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Great idea.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_05: And where I was a member of a sole member of this club, the kid they were he was big into calling moms and dads Mr.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_05: and Mrs.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_05: Old School.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, and he still does it, writer still does it.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_05: So he's like, Yeah, a good idea, the automatic.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, it was your idea, you thought of it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_05: Now, you know, that's the power of Ted.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_05: You make other people's idea.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_05: And but again, don't get confused, everybody listen, it's not manipulation.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because I challenge John this.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_05: It's only if you that's why you got to believe what you do matters.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_05: If you believe what you do matters, you will not try to convince people that they don't want to do something because that's what selling is value-based selling is helping them see a problem they don't know exists, and they're gonna solve solve themselves.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I could talk to you for three more hours, brother, but I know that's not possible.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um let's I've I've I've mentioned force management multiple times.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we've mentioned John.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I want to make sure sales teams and companies know how to find you and learn more about.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_05: I've experienced it, but for the people listening home, there might be some business dads.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_05: Talk about what force management does.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_05: How can people learn more about you and get in touch with you?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, force management, we uh we help companies, individuals accelerate sales performance in a nutshell, is what we do.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: We work with organizations around the globe, uh developing elite sales teams and tomorrow's leaders.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: And helping them get cross-functional alignment across customized programs to accelerate revenue platforms to help them grow.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Force Management's been doing this for over 25 years now.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been blessed to be a customer of theirs back in 2005.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm working for them.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the best way to find us, forcemanagement.com.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: I can be reached at John.boney at forcemanagement.com.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: We love helping organizations get to the next level of performance that they're looking for.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, looking forward to any way we can help anybody and apply some of the philosophies and theories that we have around getting command of your message and selling on value.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_05: If you're an executive and this is where like I can't do what you guys do because you guys can scale at massive.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_05: I'm more of a one-man band doing my thing.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_05: I would I am your champion.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm selling on your behalf.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_05: I have a best interest in your success, be successful because I've seen it.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_05: And uh I well, I shouldn't say I have power and influence because I'm a one-man band, but uh, those are the three components of a champion.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_05: John, if you're Mr.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_05: Kaplan, I'm still I can still speak your truth.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I I hope people check you guys out.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I I'm a huge fan.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I think what you guys are doing is so important for specifically right now, where there's too many people who are transactional, which is why I wrote the book that was in my mind for a long time.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_05: But I think relationships matter, and our kids need to learn about relationships, and younger sellers need to learn about and even older sellers need to learn about relationships.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_05: And not if you're not even in sales, everybody needs to have relationships.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_05: Finance, the freaking manufacturing team to janitorial, it don't matter.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_05: Relationships are everything in life.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships are king, and you know, when we're talking about selling, customers are buying what's valuable to them, not features and functions.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Spot on.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, all right, man.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna go into the lightning round where I show you now the negative hits of taking too many hits in college, not bong hits, but football hits.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_05: Your job is to answer these questions as quickly as you can.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_05: My job is to try to get a giggle out of you.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_05: Uh first question softball Argonauts or Steelers?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_05: Steelers.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, the Seahawks are playing the Steelers this weekend.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_05: Hawks 84, Steelers six.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_05: True or false?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_05: False.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_05: Probably agree that one.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_05: Uh true or false.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_05: I was in the it was in Detroit when the Seahawks lost to your beloved Steelers.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_05: That was true.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, true or false, I partied with a guy that had a uh Malafala week, a Palomalo Week.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_05: True.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_05: He did, he made me put it on.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_05: Great guy.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_05: We actually just when we checked into our hotel in Toledo, Ohio, uh, it said, Welcome to Steeler Country with a banner that led down two floors.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_05: Guess how many Seahawk fans were there?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_05: 17.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_05: Two, me and my buddy.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_05: Not fun experience.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_05: And everybody from Pittsburgh was like, dude, what are you doing here?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, my boys are playing in the Super Bowl.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_05: First time ever.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_05: I wouldn't miss it.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_05: And they're like, What?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_05: They couldn't believe that we were there.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_05: So it was such a cool experience.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_05: If I came to your house for dinner tonight, what would we have?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_05: Uh steak on the grill.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: Last book salad, probably a couple cold beers.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, last book you read was um The Art of a Salesman.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_05: Favorite 80s comedy movie is?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_05: Favorite 80s Fletch.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_05: Six four, the Afro?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: Got your little fist up there, Doc?
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I love Fletch.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, if you were to take your kids, all three of them, dad's dad's buying.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_05: We're going on a vacation, just the for you.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_05: Where are you going?
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: Vale, Colorado.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, have you seen Better Off Dead?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: I have not, no.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_05: There's a great there's a great ski reference.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_05: I always mention people who ski.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's called Ski in the K-12.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_05: And his advice, it was remember Booger from Avengers the Nerds?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_05: I forgot.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_05: I think his name's um Dudley, not Dudley Dawson.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_05: I can't remember his name in real life.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe it is Dudley Dawson.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_05: He said, Here's my advice.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_05: I want you to go really fast.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_05: If something gets in your way, turn.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_05: That was the skiing advice, which is absolutely ridiculous, but funny.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's that's a good advice.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Way you should turn.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: Stop or turn.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: One of the two.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: Fall down.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, there was to be a book written about your life.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me the title.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a question I gotta think about.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um The Trials and Tribulation of John.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh from the heart and authentic.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, now, John, you won't believe this, but I do.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, Amazon can't print enough copies, Barnes Noble can't keep enough copies, every airport is freaking selling copies left and right.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, Phil Donahue, Oprah, rest in peace, um, Ricky Lake, Mori Povich, they're all fighting for you.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_05: So now uh Hollywood's gonna say, Screw, we're making a movie out of this thing.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_05: And you're the casting director.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_05: I need I need to know what Hollywood star is gonna star the one only John Boney in this critically acclaimed hit-who movie.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I think it's appropriate now because he's lost so much weight.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you gotta find some fit bald guy.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go with Dwayne Johnson.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_05: Let's go.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_05: The rock.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_05: I see it.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_05: I see it.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then last, last, last question.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, tell me, tell me two words that would describe John's mindset right now as a dad.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: Two words that describe my mindset.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um motivated and sincere.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_05: Love it, man.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_05: Lightning round's over.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I I could talk to you forever.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so grateful our Paslo Cross.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so grateful that you um accepted because I found John via the wide world of the uh the podcast world.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um grateful for Rachel for making introduction.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'm grateful for you for accepting LinkedIn invite and grateful for spending an hour with me and talking about some about stuff that matters.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, once I get this elbow figured out, man, I would love to meet you on a golf course.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I love you.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's been fantastic.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate it.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_05: No, you've been you've been fantastic.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_05: I'll make sure everything is uh connected in the show notes.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_05: If you have not taken time, everybody, um, please go out and and just get on your phone, wherever you listen to these podcast apps, and just find a way to leave a review.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's pretty self-in, uh, pretty easy.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_05: The more uh engaging we can get on these social platforms, the more that we can help inspire and help another dad out there.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I think guys like John or why your story are why I'm doing this.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I I feel better than I've ever, I mean, I felt better than I did this morning.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_05: Not because I didn't feel bad, but I just you've you've inspired me, John.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_05: And so I've been grateful for you and sharing your story.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_05: And um again, appreciate everybody's support at home and thank you guys for listening.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I look forward to seeing you guys next week on another episode of the Quarterback Deadcast.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Very good.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.