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Happy Halloween! - Outlast - Summary · Replay Reviews

0:00
All right.
0:03
It's the summery episode.
0:06
Happy Halloween!
0:08
It's actually October for us now.
0:10
We waited a little while to record and I'm glad we did because this feels correct.
0:15
We're doing this right.
0:16
It's starting to feel like fall.
0:19
It's literally 85 degrees today.
0:21
It's not feeling like fall.
0:24
I say that knowing that I have my window fan and the AC on.
0:31
Before we jump into our main topics, we had a couple burning questions.
0:36
So here's our first one.
0:38
Do you remember we were wondering why Wernicke couldn't just go kill Billy and end this
0:43
whole thing and why he had to have Miles do it?
0:46
Yes, yes, yes.
0:47
I had a realization.
0:49
The man is in a wheelchair and Miles went up about 35 flights of stairs to shut off
0:55
the life support.
0:58
I don't think he could do it, honestly.
1:01
But he had so many of his...
1:04
Right before he gets killed, he had a bunch of people there to help him.
1:08
If he really needed someone to go up those stairs, he could have asked any of those people.
1:13
Well, I don't think they would have showed up.
1:15
I think they showed up because he told them, like, oh, we're destroying the wall rider.
1:21
We're killing Billy Hope.
1:23
So come get me out of here.
1:25
Maybe.
1:26
But anyway, it might be as simple as just he physically couldn't go upstairs.
1:33
But that seems like poor design.
1:34
I mean, I don't know how long he's been in a wheelchair, but it seems like you should
1:37
maybe not have so many stairs.
1:40
So another burning question that we had was who is screaming when Billy's life support
1:45
is being shut down?
1:47
I don't know if you ever landed on a final theory for that.
1:51
I think it is Billy.
1:53
I almost feel like Billy is at this point somewhat brain dead.
1:57
But the whole shutting down the life support is just his physical body releasing that pain,
2:05
I guess, which is what's causing him to scream.
2:08
Yeah, so I agree.
2:11
I found...
2:12
Well, I reread every document.
2:14
And there was one that we sort of glazed over because it looked extremely boring to read.
2:19
And that one was the document he finds on the console for the morphogenic engine thingy
2:25
where Billy is.
2:26
And it's like the maintenance document.
2:29
But there's a sentence in there now that I actually read the whole thing.
2:33
There's a sentence in there that reads, any interruption in supply will cause sufficient
2:37
pain to the patient.
2:39
So I feel like we can be pretty confident that that is Billy screaming.
2:44
Okay.
2:46
Well, that might be the first time we actually solved some burning questions.
2:52
With some confidence in it too.
2:53
With some confidence.
2:55
Should we jump into topic number one?
2:58
Yeah.
2:59
All right.
3:00
It's kind of a burning question, but it's too big to really be a burning question.
3:03
And it is what is the swarm?
3:06
And I think we're going to break this into two parts, which is number one, defining the
3:09
wall rider and then defining the swarm.
3:11
I don't know if you want to give your thoughts on the wall rider.
3:15
Mine kind of go together, go hand in hand.
3:18
So you have the wall rider, which at this point, I think the wall rider is obviously
3:24
it's the name of a project, but I think it's the process of getting someone to the swarm,
3:30
to see the swarm.
3:31
So all that black stuff that we see, that's a swarm.
3:34
The wall rider is the process, just like the morphogenic engine.
3:38
It's what takes you there to that level.
3:42
So I think that's why the project is called the wall rider, because it's the process and
3:48
the swarm.
3:49
My personal theory is that it's probably a bunch of cells from some cellular regeneration
3:54
experiment, or that it's like a bunch of static or some kind of cells that morph together
4:00
and somehow create its own life.
4:05
I'm also thinking a possibility that it's just some hallucination that Miles is going
4:09
through or all the patients are going through, or maybe he's going to wake up from a dream
4:14
and realize that he's still sitting outside in his Jeep.
4:18
I don't know, but that's-
4:19
Wouldn't that be nice?
4:21
Yeah, that's pretty a wild guess, but I do think leaning back onto the theory of it's
4:27
just a bunch of probably more scientific, that it's just a bunch of cells.
4:32
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of ways that this could go.
4:37
Option number one, I guess, in my notes is, I mean, there's quite a bit of evidence suggesting
4:43
that it really is a demon, the wall rider really is a demon.
4:46
I mean, we have a document five from part three of our gameplay that tells us it is
4:51
a demonic creature of German origin that torments sleepers.
4:56
We also have document two from part two that was written by a patient and says, it was
5:00
not a therapy, we were sacrificed to conjure a demon.
5:04
And then running through the asylum, we also hear a patient say it was a conjuring somewhere
5:08
in the background.
5:09
And then also in the very first document in this game, the email that Miles receives,
5:15
it says, doctors talking about dream therapy going too deep, finding something in the mountain.
5:21
And there's reference of it coming out of the mountain somewhere else as well.
5:26
But I think a lot of what it is hinges on who's seeing it because that's my main question
5:33
is, is the wall rider real or is it part of the dream therapy?
5:37
And that's why Miles starts to see it.
5:40
And that's why some of the workers were seeing it too, because it sounded like some of them
5:45
were being affected by the therapy as well.
5:47
And so like, even if it was just the therapy was leaking out somehow, or if they could
5:51
somehow get secondhand therapy from the patients.
5:54
And the reason I think like it could still be something real is because it makes sense
5:59
that they would summon this demon since it torments sleepers and they're doing dream
6:04
therapy.
6:05
But also, doesn't Miles see it before he's exposed to the video?
6:12
I think so.
6:13
He was like in one of the halls.
6:15
But the criteria in order for someone to see it is to see enough for it, right?
6:21
And by that point, Miles has seen so much.
6:25
So I wouldn't be surprised if he was at that point already affected so much by what he
6:29
was seeing and collecting.
6:32
Not so different than a patient.
6:34
And he was talking to patients and reading all these documents, both from the doctor's
6:39
side, the scientist's side, and whatever he was hearing.
6:43
So I'm not surprised that he already seen the wall rider or the swarm before he sees
6:51
the actual video.
6:52
Yeah.
6:53
And I think that's the question is, do you have to first hand, you have first hand exposure
6:59
to the engine to the video to start to see this or is just being around people is secondhand
7:07
exposure enough to start seeing this thing?
7:09
I think that's the big question.
7:10
I think secondhand because if you think about it, the timing of everything happening, like
7:15
Warnock was born, I think, I can't remember what year he was born.
7:20
That's either after World War One or something.
7:23
So he would have been like old enough to kind of recognize what was happening during World
7:28
War Two to start working and everything.
7:31
And I think because of that timing and all the different scientists, they got a lot of
7:36
secondhand experience to horror from the war and they were able to come up with this experiment.
7:44
So to your question, going back to your question, yes, I think just even secondhand horror is
7:50
enough.
7:51
Yeah.
7:52
And I think we have some evidence of the treatment sort of leaking.
7:55
You know, is that why workers are seeing things?
7:58
You know, is that the reason behind that?
8:00
If you're seeing things, say something document.
8:03
And is that what the environmental contamination is?
8:07
Which reminds me, sorry, just kind of jump out.
8:10
When you say environmental kind of contamination, is that why all the pest in that area?
8:17
Maybe I don't know how pest process things, but I'm assuming that by association with
8:22
that environment of so much blood and everything, do you think all that pest is probably some
8:27
kind of makeup of the swarm?
8:31
And that's what they need some crazy amount of pesticide to kill it if they can kill it?
8:39
I have an answer for you, but I can't give it to you yet.
8:44
Let me make a note to write it after the next part.
8:47
I'm just going to tell you, I don't think it's bugs.
8:50
Okay, so part two of topic one, attempting to define the swarm.
8:55
For me, I focused on the seventh document that we find in gameplay part four.
9:01
I feel like it gives us more insight than anything else into what the swarm is.
9:07
It's a note distributed to all personnel and it was written by Warnocky and it says, do
9:12
not worship the swarm.
9:14
Any sentient being based in this technology will be so far superior to us that illusions
9:19
of godliness will be reasonable.
9:21
I'm going to build more on this later, but for now, with this information in mind, I
9:27
feel like there's two main veins for sort of what could the swarm be?
9:33
And the first is something within the patients.
9:37
So throughout this game, we hear patients saying, get them out, rip them clean.
9:40
They're in my blood and they want to get out.
9:42
And then we also have Chris Walker saying we have to contain it.
9:45
That makes you question like, who is them?
9:47
Who are they?
9:49
And what is it?
9:50
What is in people has to be contained.
9:53
So could all of that just be the swarm?
9:56
And exactly what that is?
9:57
I don't know.
9:59
And then second potential for the swarm is something that the patients are seeing.
10:05
Dr. Martin writes in document one for gameplay part two, what we've mistaken so long for
10:10
ghosts, spirits, madness.
10:12
We are only willfully ignorant.
10:14
The scales over Saul's eyes were fear.
10:16
And when you see beyond it, you truly see.
10:18
This is the gift of the wall writer, the gospel of sand.
10:22
And then also in another document, we have the, if you're seeing things, say something.
10:27
And then remember, miles starts to see static or whatever it is after watching that exit
10:33
interview video.
10:35
So is this warm something that people get exposed to in the treatment and they can see
10:39
it after the treatment?
10:43
So topic number two is what is the relationship between the host and the wall writer?
10:48
So for me, I think there's three options, depending on how you see it.
10:53
So the first option is that the wall writer or the swarms, I'm going to use these words
10:57
interchangeably, but the wall writers thoughts are independent of Dr.
11:02
Wernicke.
11:04
So this means that by the end of the game where the wall writer, we don't know if it's
11:10
the wall writer or miles, let's say that it is miles and he's still alive with some quotes.
11:19
Then the first option is the wall writer's thoughts are independent and it's no, it's
11:26
not controlled by miles, but that means that the wall writer is inherently bad and it chooses
11:32
to kill miles or to make a partnership with them.
11:37
Second option is that the wall writer goes in and whoever the last person, the wall writer
11:45
eats or swallows whole or whatever, that's the host and that person has control, which
11:50
means that miles now has control of the wall writer.
11:55
And that also means that miles is the one who decides to kill Wernicke based on what
12:01
we hear in the ending.
12:03
But that also means that miles, the investigative journalist who goes in and tries to figure
12:07
out what's going on and saving people is now in the industry of killing people.
12:13
He's pretty much a murderer.
12:15
Third option is that Billy, Billy has been the one in control this entire time and he
12:22
probably decided to just because he's in so much pain, he doesn't want to be the host
12:28
anymore.
12:29
He just chooses miles, the guy who helps him end himself.
12:34
So he gives that control over to miles.
12:36
So miles now is taking Billy's spot, although his physical body doesn't need to be hooked
12:42
up to the machines.
12:45
Question is, does it control itself or does the host control it?
12:49
So I don't know.
12:50
I think that's, I'm glad you went this direction because I didn't.
12:55
So that's good.
12:56
We didn't do like the same discussion.
12:57
For me, I feel like the biggest hint we're given as to the relationship between the Walrider
13:03
and its host is in that exit interview video where we hear Wernicke say, only a test subject
13:09
who had witnessed enough horror was capable of activating the engine.
13:12
I feel like this line, so many things hinge on this line in the entire game.
13:18
With that in mind, I think we have some insight into how they choose patients to focus on
13:23
for the treatment.
13:25
For example, we find two patient status reports, one for Chris Walker and one for Billy Hope.
13:30
From Chris Walker's status report, we know he was in the military and they reference
13:34
mental traumas he sustained while serving in Afghanistan.
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So you can imagine that they saw some potential in Chris Walker for Project Walrider due to
13:43
the unique level of horror that he probably witnessed during his time in war.
13:49
But the report also mentions that the same mental trauma seems to be stopping the progression
13:54
of the morphogenic engine process.
13:57
So keep that in mind.
13:58
Comparatively, we have Billy Hope, who seemed to be acting as the Walrider's host and has
14:04
been making strides in the morphogenic engine according to his status report.
14:08
And then we later learn, like we pick up a couple documents and we learn more about his
14:13
mother.
14:14
We don't really know exactly what the situation is, but it seems like his mother is pretty
14:19
central in his emotions.
14:23
And then we think that they might have killed her.
14:26
And I think that they did kill her and I think they killed her in order to push him to become
14:31
a better host for the Walrider, to add some more horror to him.
14:35
So the main difference between these two patient status reports that we see, that I pick up
14:42
on is that Billy's horror is centered around his mother versus Chris Walker's is centered
14:48
around his time in war.
14:50
So Billy's is more current while Walker's is more something in the past.
14:55
So does the horror have to be more recent for the treatment to succeed?
15:00
And then I will have a follow up question to this.
15:02
But again, I'm really yanking your chain today.
15:06
But we'll get to it later.
15:10
Definitely making me think.
15:11
I don't think it matters when the trauma happens for both Billy and Chris, because it's the
15:18
level and the amount of horror they see.
15:21
And for Chris, because his comes from war, and it's only for a certain amount of period
15:27
of whenever he was in that situation, it's set the trauma set in terms of duration.
15:34
But for Billy, they can keep dragging it on as long as possible.
15:37
So it's not about it being recent.
15:39
It's about the duration of him experiencing and going through that level of trauma, especially
15:44
maybe they needed something to push him over the edge.
15:47
Okay, let's kill his mom.
15:49
And so I think because of that, he becomes a more suitable host.
15:53
I'm trying to decide how much to say now.
15:56
I think we should leave it at that for now.
15:58
All right.
15:59
So our third topic is, what exactly was Wernicke's goal and what outcome did he want from the
16:06
experiments?
16:07
And this is where a lot of dots maybe connect for me.
16:12
So I don't know if you want to go first so that I can tie up.
16:14
Mine's pretty short.
16:15
Okay, go ahead.
16:16
Mine's really short because I struggled with this question.
16:19
And for me, I feel like we just didn't get to see enough of Wernicke, especially towards
16:24
the end of the game to get some of the answers that we need.
16:28
I think first of all, he is a mad scientist and he's inherently a bad so-called doctor
16:35
in terms of how he wants to do these experiments has literally no ethics and he just wants
16:42
to control people.
16:44
And maybe this to him was just an experiment to see if you can survive the afterlife and
16:49
that's something he wants to do, but he's just testing it out on people and just trying
16:54
to tweak it until he feels comfortable to do it himself.
16:57
I'm not sure.
16:58
I feel like we don't get enough answers.
17:00
So I struggled with this question and I think his goal was probably to somehow be able to
17:06
control the entire situation.
17:09
I agree.
17:10
It's hard to start to grasp this question, which is why I printed out every single document
17:17
and organized them by what they're talking about.
17:22
And so I started my answer to this question based off of the documents from the past,
17:26
the ones that reference CIA, Project Paperclip, everything from the 40s and 50s.
17:31
I think based off of those documents that Wernicke was hired to assist in finding some
17:36
sort of mind control method.
17:39
So if we look at these documents in the order that we find them in the game, the first one
17:44
is the one that mentions being able to hypnotize a woman into shooting someone.
17:49
The second discusses what can be achieved through sleep induction and hypnotic techniques
17:53
when applied to war and specific agency problems.
17:57
And this same document also asks, what are full details on a sleep inducing machine?
18:03
And then the third document talks about obtaining services from foreign specialists for specific
18:08
assignments for the military.
18:09
And it even goes on to say specifically German and Austrian specialists.
18:14
So I think that makes it pretty clear that Wernicke was hired and I think he was hired
18:19
to help develop a sleep slash mind control project.
18:25
And likely they heard about the project Walrider from Germany that he had started on.
18:31
So do you think the results that they were getting through the tests that we see on these
18:36
two women Jackson and Pierce with the hypnosis, were those results not strong enough or not
18:43
successful enough?
18:44
And that's why they hired Wernicke?
18:47
Or do you think he was around even all the way back then?
18:51
The documents mentioning Pierce and Jackson, it's dated 1954.
18:56
And Wernicke's obituary says that he emigrated to the US in 1949.
19:01
So how long do you think that he's been involved with these projects?
19:05
I think he probably was involved in this project really early on, probably when he was like
19:13
18 or so.
19:14
I don't know why 18.
19:15
But you know, at a good enough age to have enough education to know what's going on.
19:21
But I think the reason why they hired him was they probably saw that he was a mad scientist.
19:26
Like they needed someone crazy enough and unhinged enough that they can proceed with
19:33
this.
19:34
But again, they have no ethics when it comes to this.
19:38
And so I think that he was hired because they probably knew he was unhinged enough to do
19:43
whatever they needed him to do for the outcome and not caring about the process.
19:49
And then based on the exit interview, it sounds like it wasn't working.
19:54
And so my question is, that exit interview, clearly work was still going on after that.
20:00
So is that when he then went to Mount Massive and sort of started like the US branch of
20:05
Merckoff because his work with the US team failed?
20:09
Is it because their minds weren't open enough to follow his formula or whatever for Project
20:15
Wall Rider?
20:16
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
20:18
But also it might be just not enough resources.
20:22
Okay, so next part of the question, what exactly was he doing and why?
20:28
So we have Project Wall Rider and the Morphogenic Engine, which are the two big things we hear
20:33
across the length of this game.
20:36
And it seems to me, I don't know if you agree, that the Morphogenic Engine is like it falls
20:40
under the umbrella of Project Wall Rider.
20:42
I say this because based on the patient status report for Project Wall Rider patients, they
20:48
mentioned Morphogenic Engine activity, but they call them Project Wall Rider patients.
20:53
So what do you think the relationship is between the project and the engine?
20:58
Maybe the engine is the process and later just something coined by Wernicke and his
21:04
colleagues at a later date when they had a better grasp on how to see the Wall Rider
21:14
slash the swarm.
21:16
And I think the patients aren't necessary ones that receive the same kind of treatment
21:21
that Wernicke later gives to them.
21:24
Maybe they're receiving a different kind of treatment.
21:26
So I think it's just being exposed to different phases of the entire project.
21:32
Okay.
21:33
It's interesting you said that because my next bullet point is I think that some of
21:39
the Project Wall Rider patients are people who they're trying to get the Wall Rider
21:43
to accept as its host.
21:46
And those would be the people like Billy Hope, Chris Walker, who have what they think to
21:50
be enough horror to activate the engine.
21:53
And then maybe the rest of the patients that we're seeing in this asylum are people who
21:57
they're testing the control of.
22:01
So like they're testing the Wall Rider host relationship on the rest of the patients.
22:07
And then is that what the sentient swarm is that they mention in the autopsy report?
22:14
I think that's a really valid point because the area where Billy is seated, we see in
22:21
a circular shape.
22:23
There's multiple chairs and probably one chair will belong to Chris Walker.
22:28
But maybe that's what it is.
22:30
They need more bodies and that's why they have so many of those stations of those ball
22:36
things that Miles walks by and Billy is in.
22:42
By the time I got to this point in my notes, I still had that question of the hormone therapy.
22:47
We hear that mentioned multiple times as well.
22:50
And so I was wondering like how does the hormone therapy fit into all of this?
22:55
And this is when I took a closer look at the documents and two in particular.
23:01
There are two documents that reference a relationship between Warnocky and Alan Turing, one of which
23:06
even mentions a paper that they wrote together.
23:10
So this is when things got weird.
23:13
I did some research on Turing and found that he did write a paper on morphogenesis.
23:20
So I'm assuming that this is the paper that they are saying Warnocky helped him write.
23:25
Except of course in real life, Warnocky doesn't exist unless maybe he does.
23:28
I don't think so.
23:29
And the paper is about, let me read you the title of the paper.
23:33
I found it.
23:34
I found the paper that Alan Turing wrote.
23:39
So Alan Turing is a real person?
23:41
He is a real person, yes.
23:43
So I found the paper that he wrote and it's called the chemical basis of morphogenesis.
23:48
And so I decided I needed to know what morphogenesis meant.
23:52
And so I have a definition for you.
23:54
And it is the biological process that causes a cell, tissue or organism to develop its
23:59
shape.
24:01
I attempted to read it.
24:03
It's really long, like 60 plus pages long.
24:06
That's dedication right there.
24:08
Well kind of because I decided to just read the intro on the summary.
24:12
And then actually in the summary it even mentions like oh we're going to dumb it down for you
24:18
to be able to understand this because it requires like high understanding of mathematics and
24:22
all this stuff.
24:23
But even with it being dumbed down I still didn't grasp a lot of it.
24:27
But the main thing studied in this paper is growth patterns for things like stripes or
24:35
rings.
24:36
But the most interesting thing as far as a connection to outlast goes is the formulas
24:42
in the paper.
24:44
So I'm sure you remember when Miles finds that whiteboard with the morphogenic engine
24:48
formula on it.
24:50
And I think that that formula is based off of the real formulas in this essay.
24:55
I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled it from there.
24:58
And then this will come into play in a minute but I also read that Turing is considered
25:02
to be the father of artificial intelligence.
25:04
If we can go back again to the exit interview video with Warnocky and his quote about having
25:09
to witness enough horror.
25:10
And I thought what I'm wondering is, is the morphogenic engine a sort of biological version
25:17
of AI?
25:19
So are they trying to implant a certain growth pattern in brain cells that activates morphogenesis
25:25
of the mind?
25:26
Like allowing them to control patients brains via the wall rider?
25:32
I don't know.
25:33
I don't have an opinion.
25:35
I don't know.
25:36
Because I mean yes but at the same time could be a no.
25:39
We'll never know.
25:41
So let me keep going.
25:42
We also have document number two from gameplay part four that says, I have pressing news
25:50
concerning the ongoing work of Dr. Rudolph Warnocky and his development of the morphogenic
25:55
engine, expanding on theories developed in his brief but unfortunate relationship with
25:59
A. Turing.
26:00
But beyond even the promise in stellar regeneration, I believe Warnocky's method has breached
26:05
the spiritual realm.
26:06
So the question is still, is this something spiritual or not?
26:13
And the line from his warning, his don't worship the swarm warning, he says any sentient being
26:22
based in this technology.
26:25
So like a sentient being that makes you think like it's alive, right?
26:32
Do we need to define sentient?
26:35
Yeah, let's go ahead and find it.
26:39
Be able to perceive or feel things.
26:42
When I typed in sentient, sentient AI actually popped up as one of the top search results.
26:48
It's hard to know like is this sentient AI or is it something spiritual?
26:54
Because a lot of people have claimed to witness seeing something physical.
26:58
Well, it could also be another definition is that it's life itself.
27:03
If that's the case, the swarm or the wall rider is life itself.
27:10
And so I don't know, I don't know how that connects back to you, to everything.
27:16
I don't know either.
27:19
So if this is happening, if they're implanting, basically implanting AI biologically using
27:27
morphogenesis to change the shape of your brain or whatever they're doing, could this
27:33
explain why Chris Walker is tearing everybody's head off?
27:38
Because would it be breaking the morphogenic engine relationship?
27:43
Because if it's going into the brain, you know what I'm saying?
27:47
And then is this another reason the engine was not operating properly in him?
27:52
And I say that because we have him saying like it needs to be contained and we hear
27:56
him repeating military protocol.
28:00
So to go back to the relationship between the wall rider and the host and why it didn't
28:05
work in Chris Walker versus Billy Hope, is it because his brain is already so structured
28:11
that the morphogenic engine, the growth patterns that the engine is trying to implant, they're
28:18
not strong enough to override what's already structured in his brain because of how intense
28:23
military training is?
28:25
And is that why it didn't work in him versus Billy Hope?
28:28
Chris Walker is probably the strongest person mentally, emotionally, physically, the entire
28:34
group of people because he's gone through so much.
28:38
He knows how to keep fighting against probably to him what's right and wrong.
28:44
And maybe that's why it's not working is because he's constantly fighting against it because
28:49
he knows this is an enemy.
28:50
He'd rather die than to let this take over.
28:53
So I think that's why it doesn't work.
28:55
And that's why it's taking so long because he constantly is fighting against it.
29:00
We might want to put this back in our last topic, but it's too good to not talk about.
29:05
So there is a note and it's writing on the wall on instructions to torture people.
29:13
And that made me remember, we questioned whether Traeger was ever a real doctor.
29:18
And there's some documents that make it pretty clear that he was not.
29:21
So do you think his real job was just to torture patients in hopes of activating the engine
29:26
in them, putting them through enough horror?
29:28
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
29:31
Back to defining the Walrider and the swarm, another loose end that I teased you about
29:36
in the beginning.
29:37
Is the Walrider the swarm?
29:40
Are they the same thing?
29:41
Number one, the last note that Miles makes in the game after he kills Billy Hope is Billy
29:47
is dead, the Walrider, the swarm, whatever it is.
29:51
So do the patients refer to the swarm as the Walrider, but the employees refer to it as
29:57
the swarm?
29:59
Are they the same thing?
30:00
In my mind, I kind of see it.
30:02
I know we're using the words interchangeably, but I started to think that the Walrider is
30:06
everything that happens and what people are interacting with before they actually see
30:13
the black stuff, which is the swarm.
30:15
I don't know if that's a valid way to think of it.
30:19
What do you think that the monster is then that people are seeing?
30:23
The swarm.
30:24
The swarm.
30:25
Okay.
30:26
The swarm.
30:27
So what's the Walrider?
30:28
It's everything that people hear about to see, and they think they see something, and it's
30:36
just a project, so it's the process of it.
30:39
Here's why I disagree.
30:42
Mostly Father Martin, because Miles has a run-in with the Walrider.
30:49
We're going to just call it that for the sake of where I'm going with this, the ghosty
30:52
thing.
30:53
He sees it, and then he very quickly runs into Father Martin, who says, you saw it.
30:58
You saw the Walrider, didn't you?
31:00
So I think Father Martin is seeing this ghost thing and calling it the Walrider.
31:05
So that's why I think that patients see the ghost and call him the Walrider, but people
31:10
involved in the project refer to it as the swarm.
31:15
And so maybe they're not seeing it or they're seeing it differently than the patients, but
31:18
it's the same thing.
31:20
I think that makes more sense than I think I was still lost until you explained it like
31:24
that.
31:25
I think I need another example, which makes sense because the patients don't know what
31:31
it is.
31:32
I mean, in terms of like they didn't know how it got there, and they didn't realize
31:36
what these people were doing behind the scenes to make it happen.
31:41
And so they had to put a label on it and they smacked Walrider on it.
31:47
So that's my final thought is that those two are the same things.
31:51
As far as what it is, I can't decide if the Walrider is legitimately a demon that has
31:57
to do with sleeping or if it's some sort of biological AI.
32:03
I think we can call it either option that it could be AI, which I don't know if it
32:10
was that fully developed back then, or maybe it is just a spiritual thing.
32:19
And that's what I don't know because we have in the exit interview, the conductor is asking,
32:29
did you breach like, was it something supernatural?
32:33
And Warnaker responds, nothing is supernatural.
32:36
Does that just mean that he considers everything that you see, it's real, because you're seeing
32:41
it so it's not supernatural?
32:43
And so even demons to him are not something supernatural, that's just something that exists.
32:49
Or is he saying like, it's not supernatural, it's something that we created.
32:57
Maybe you're right that Walrider versus the swarm of who's calling who.
33:02
So you have the first group of people, which for people who call it a Walrider, maybe the
33:08
Walrider is a spiritual thing because those who identify it don't know that this is something
33:14
that the scientists are trying to make it happen.
33:17
So therefore, the Walrider is spiritual, but the swarm is AI.
33:23
The swarm is a morphogenic AI because it's a bunch of these scientists, these people
33:27
who know what they're doing, who are trying to make it happen.
33:30
So they consider it AI because they feel like they made it a thing.
33:35
So it's not spiritual.
33:37
So I think if we're going to consider Walrider being the term used by patients and swarm
33:44
being a term used by scientists, then that means the Walrider is spiritual and the swarm
33:50
is morphogenic AI.
33:52
And it just depends on if you've had the treatment or not, as to how you see it, how you interact
33:57
with it.
33:58
And that's why Warnock refers to as sentient being based in this technology.
34:04
So yeah, I think we're getting close.
34:07
It's confusing because I mean, the whole talk of having it described to people as a demon,
34:14
is that just to offer them an explanation, the patients an explanation as to what they're
34:20
seeing?
34:21
Can you imagine someone explaining to a patient that this is a morphogenic AI?
34:26
Oh, no, not at all.
34:28
Yeah, so they have to coin.
34:30
Oh, it's a demon.
34:32
What we know if we can take every document at face value, what we know is that the morphogenic
34:36
engine spawns the Walrider.
34:40
It's definitely a product of the morphogenic engine and knowing more about morphogenesis
34:45
and how you could use chemicals, which by the way, I'm guessing that's why when you're
34:50
being chased by the Walrider, you run into these rooms that spray like gas.
34:55
So I'm thinking those chemicals alter the formula for the morphogenic engine and then
35:00
that's why it can't continue to chase you after passing through that.
35:04
And also goes back to our helicopter pesticide question.
35:10
I think the swarm is leaking out of the it's getting too big to contain within Mount Massive.
35:18
And that's why they're spraying chemicals, pesticide, whatever you want to call it outside
35:23
is they're trying to destroy the formula.
35:26
That is such a good reasoning.
35:29
I agree with both of them.
35:31
I think it makes sense.
35:33
It makes sense.
35:35
Topic four.
35:36
What impact does Miles have on the situation?
35:39
Mine is pretty short.
35:40
Mine too.
35:41
Unlike every other topic, I have one sentence of notes instead of one page of notes.
35:46
Let me guess the first one is he has none.
35:49
Okay, here's my thoughts.
35:55
So based off of what we've learned, it seems like I think he's made it worse.
35:59
I think he became the perfect vessel for the Walrider based off of what he's experienced
36:05
in Mount Massive.
36:06
And now that Warnocky is sort of not in control anymore, because we know that Warnocky was
36:12
in some way controlling Billy because he was locked up.
36:15
Does the Walrider now have free reign because he has a free host?
36:19
Sure, why not?
36:22
That's my thought is he definitely made it worse.
36:24
He made it less controllable, I think.
36:28
So I agree with you because he pretty much doesn't have much of a impact on the situation.
36:39
He does make everything worse.
36:41
And there's no way he was able to survive to begin with the fact that this guy gets
36:46
lost, knocked out, barely has enough batteries to constantly keep himself seen in the dark
36:53
and everything.
36:54
I don't know if he was meant to survive.
36:58
I understand it's a video game and you have to because you're a player and you play until
37:04
the game ends.
37:05
But I don't think Miles's character was meant to survive.
37:08
Like, what kind of person makes it out alive from that kind of situation, right?
37:14
You're talking like from a creative standpoint, he wasn't meant to survive or what?
37:20
What do you can you describe that differently?
37:24
I mean, think of yourself as Miles and stuff.
37:28
Like, how can a normal person survive that, considering how so many people died in that?
37:33
So it was destined for him to fail.
37:37
And I'm thinking that maybe a option is that Wernicke was the one who lured Miles into
37:44
the situation knowing that he wasn't going to make it out.
37:47
And he was going to try to make Miles one of those eight, ten, however many chairs that
37:52
were to use his body.
37:54
Maybe they needed like fresh bodies and Miles would be one.
37:58
So that's what I'm saying is that he was never meant to survive.
38:02
Okay, I really like that theory.
38:06
And honestly, I think that's better than the answer we get in the DLC.
38:12
So I'm pretty confident based off of the DLC that Wernicke did not lure him there.
38:18
Well, Red Barrel, please listen and maybe make an alternative ending to this game.
38:24
But I just think because my first reaction is that Miles literally has no impact on the
38:30
situation.
38:31
Why is that?
38:32
Because it's a step back and it's all part of Wernicke's master plan.
38:37
When we start watching the DLC, it's going to make me question everything I'm watching.
38:42
But by the way, the DLC is fantastic.
38:44
It equally as fun as the main game.
38:48
You're going to have a hard time visually handling it.
38:51
Oh, God.
38:52
But before I mean, perfect segue on topic number five, our favorite scares from the
39:00
game.
39:01
Which year is Kathy?
39:02
This definitely I think it was part three.
39:05
Was it around the kitchen or something?
39:06
You forgot about that scare.
39:09
So you jumped and because of the screen share, the little two second delay, I didn't see
39:14
it.
39:15
So you're watching my reaction and you can see the moment I jumped and Jake went in front
39:19
of my face Jake the alpaca because I got so freaking scared.
39:26
That one got me not when I played because I was far enough away from the screen sitting
39:31
on the couch.
39:33
But I knew it was coming when I was editing the gameplay and it got me.
39:37
I actually jumped in.
39:39
I don't jump.
39:40
I'm more of an internal like I'd get terrified internally.
39:44
It's like I won't jump up.
39:46
My blood will just run cold.
39:48
But that I actually physically jumped in my chair.
39:51
And then when we were rewatching it, I had to have the volume really loud for you to
39:55
be able to hear it.
39:56
And so not only was it like just, oh, look at that.
39:59
That's surprising.
40:00
Like my ears were bleeding.
40:01
This is horrendous.
40:04
It was so scary for me too.
40:08
I have I had two listed and that was one of them.
40:11
So I'm glad you said that.
40:12
That's the one that actually gets me like the one that makes me jump.
40:15
But my personal favorite one is part one when he's walking down the hall and the bathroom
40:21
door is slightly ajar and then it just slowly closes all the way.
40:26
I just love it.
40:29
It adds to the fear for me because it tells the player, it tells Miles that there are
40:34
a lot of things to be scared of in this building.
40:37
Like if someone is reacting like that just based on the sound of Miles walking down the
40:41
hallway, then you know there's a bunch of shit.
40:44
Like anyone walking down the hallway could be a murderer.
40:48
So for me, that one, it's just kind of comedic as well because it's the bathroom.
40:52
Ha funny.
40:53
But it's just the how purposefully and how slowly they close the door.
40:57
Which by the way, can we comment on how bad Miles is at closing doors?
41:01
He slams them shut every single time.
41:04
Are you trying to give people clues as to where you are?
41:07
Gently close the door, please.
41:09
Biggest peeve of this game.
41:11
I think that brings us to topic number six, Kathy.
41:15
KFC.
41:16
KFC.
41:17
Kathy's favorite character.
41:20
To be honest in this game, I really am tempted to say no one.
41:25
Usually we would go for the main character and this would be Miles, but I'm just kind
41:30
of irritated that he didn't leave or didn't just start killing people and tried to leave
41:37
and everything.
41:38
Like, or maybe even like.
41:40
I'm sorry, wait, you're mad at him for not killing people?
41:43
Yeah, because if he killed Wernicke to begin with, he wouldn't have died.
41:49
He wouldn't and it'd be out of self defense.
41:51
Well, he thought Wernicke was dead already in his defense.
41:54
Can I say that not out of like cold blood or anything, I think it's out of like self
41:58
defense.
41:59
Like when he's getting chased by random people and like Traeger and everything, like how
42:04
did he kill Traeger?
42:05
He, which he kind of did later, but he wouldn't have lost the fingers.
42:09
He he like a lot could have prevented.
42:11
But you know what would have prevented all that by turning the around and walking out
42:17
of that building when the moment you realize that crap is about to hit the fan.
42:22
Yeah, I mean, they say he's locked in, but.
42:25
I don't know what's stopping him from going back out that window and climbing back down
42:28
the ladder that he climbed to get him in there.
42:31
Maybe the scaffolding fell and we just didn't notice.
42:33
And so he couldn't get back out.
42:35
But I agree with you.
42:36
I think as soon as I stepped foot in that building and what it probably smelled like,
42:41
which I'm assuming very bloody.
42:44
I would have turned around.
42:45
That would have been enough evidence for me to call the police.
42:48
Exactly.
42:49
So he's not my favorite character.
42:51
Obviously, not Father Martin or Chris Walker.
42:53
Well, I think probably the only character we didn't meet Dr. Neil Wolfram, who was the
42:59
one who requested finger pains for Father Martin and actually caring for his patients.
43:03
So that's the only person I know we didn't get to meet him, but he's I wouldn't say
43:07
he's my favorite character, but he's one of the only characters that I don't dislike.
43:12
He's one of the only characters who's actively good.
43:15
Yes.
43:16
And it's just one letter.
43:19
I feel like it's down to him or that guy, Kurt, who is email flirting.
43:21
That was his name, I think.
43:23
Oh, yeah.
43:24
I agree with you, though.
43:26
It's definitely Dr. Neil.
43:28
He's the only one.
43:29
He's the KFC.
43:30
Yeah.
43:31
Moral of the story.
43:33
Let the man finger paint.
43:35
Yes.
43:36
Anything else on topic six for you?
43:39
Nope.
43:40
Well, so key and battery counts.
43:43
Yeah.
43:45
Because I'm insane.
43:46
I rewatched the whole game.
43:47
Oh, my God, just to count the keys and the batteries that we pick up.
43:51
Oh, God.
43:53
Before we get to we'll do keys first.
43:55
But before I let you guess, I counted keys and key cards.
43:59
So I don't know if you want to combine those or count them separately.
44:03
I just kind of keys like things to elevator doors.
44:06
Okay.
44:07
Gosh, it's going to be really low.
44:11
12.
44:12
So total keys, seven.
44:15
Five of them are actual like metal keys.
44:18
Two of them are key cards.
44:21
Not too far off compared to me guessing the amount of smokes cigarettes that Bigby smokes.
44:27
Batteries, I'm going to say 45.
44:30
No.
44:31
Like, is that way too low?
44:34
No.
44:35
Too high?
44:36
Yeah.
44:37
Too high.
44:39
Fine.
44:40
25?
44:41
20.
44:42
Okay.
44:43
I was surprised it was only that many.
44:48
I saw a couple that I missed that I didn't pick up, but I was just counting ones that
44:51
I picked up.
44:52
The fact that we are panicking and everything makes me feel like there should be more.
44:57
I know.
44:58
Well, all right.
45:00
We're taking a break.
45:01
We are going to be gone.
45:04
Dead, dark.
45:07
We're taking November off is the best way to say it.
45:10
And we'll be back for a special in December, but most of December will be gone as well.
45:16
So happy Thanksgiving.
45:18
Early Thanksgiving for those of you who are in the US.
45:20
If you're not, have a great start to winter and you will hear us again around Christmas
45:26
time.
45:28
Anything you want to say or you want to count us off, Kathy?
45:31
I will count us off.
45:33
Okay.
45:34
Voice recorder on one.
45:36
Three, two, one.