Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / Newsletters outsell social: Eunice Tan on building kawara.ai

Transcript

Newsletters outsell social: Eunice Tan on building kawara.ai · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:00
Welcome back to AI for Founders. I'm your host, Ryan Estes.
0:03
Today we're diving into one of the most important but
0:05
overlooked engines of growth for startup and creators,
0:09
newsletters that actually convert.
0:11
My guest is Eunice Tan, Co founder of Kowara dot AIA
0:15
platform that's helping creators and solopreneurs turn content
0:18
into real sales. We're talking about how the
0:21
Internet economy is shifting to content LED growth, why
0:24
newsletters drive up to 60% of conversions for top creators,
0:28
and how even a small list of 2000 subscribers can outperform
0:32
a massive YouTube channel when it comes to real revenue.
0:35
This episode is for founders, creators, and anyone looking to
0:38
transform an audience into a pipeline of paying customers.
0:42
You'll learn how to scale without burning out, how to make
0:45
AI work for your voice, and how to build trust in a world where
0:48
attention is rented but relationships are owned.
0:51
You don't want to miss this one. If you have the opportunity, hit
0:54
pause right now and go to aiforfounders.co, where you can
0:57
sign up for the weekly newsletter.
1:00
The newsletter has swelled to over 25,000 Subs in the last six
1:03
months. I'm totally excited.
1:05
It's very appropriate for this conversation, largely because
1:07
we're talking about newsletters. And I can attest my newsletter
1:11
has done wonders for business. And Speaking of business, this
1:14
episode is brought to you by Kick Caster.
1:17
Here's the deal. Most founders spend all their
1:19
time building their product, but when it comes time to launch,
1:22
they realize nobody knows who they are.
1:25
That's where Kick Caster comes in.
1:27
Kick Caster books founders on the world's top podcasts.
1:30
Imagine being in the ears of 10s of thousands of potential
1:33
customers, investors and partners every week.
1:35
No ads, no calls, just real conversations that build trust
1:39
and drive sales. We booked over 35,000 interviews
1:42
for more than 800 founders and the results speak for themself.
1:46
Millions in revenue generated, millions of followers built, and
1:50
millions in venture funding raised.
1:52
If you're ready to scale your influence while you scale your
1:54
company, head over to kitcaster.com and apply to work
1:58
with us. That's kitcaster.com.
2:00
Kitcaster by Moberst. Coffee is great, but coffee
2:04
won't prep your meetings for you.
2:06
It'll just keep you awake while you panic.
2:08
Scroll through LinkedIn at 6:59 AM.
2:11
Ambient will. Each morning you get a founder
2:13
tuned briefing sourced overnight from your calendar, your meeting
2:17
history, and the web. It's like walking into every
2:19
call with a CHEAT SHEET you didn't have to write.
2:22
No more scrambling, no more guessing.
2:24
Just context, confidence and focus.
2:27
And if you're raising money, ambience, investor dossiers give
2:30
you the edge you need. You'll know their portfolio,
2:33
their interests, and their latest moves before you even
2:36
step into the room. Think of it as the caffeine
2:38
upgrade your calendar actually needs.
2:40
Prep while you sleep. Perform while you're awake.
2:43
Sign up free at ambient dot US. Go check it out at ambient dot
2:48
US live tonight. Shiny Stars Computer live.
3:05
Go, Eunice, How are you? Hey.
3:08
You're right, I'm doing good. How are you?
3:10
I'm doing great. I really appreciate you coming
3:12
on the show. I can't wait to hear about it.
3:14
But you know, just talking before we got started here, it's
3:16
2:00 in the morning for you. So again, thank you so much for
3:21
burning the midnight oil and and having this little chat with me.
3:25
Yeah, no, for sure, it's my pleasure being a fan of the
3:28
podcast. Yeah, I would love to share.
3:32
Tremendous. Now let's just dive right into
3:34
it. Give us an introduction to your
3:36
product and and I'm is it pronounced Kowara?
3:40
Yeah, Kowara of. Course it is.
3:43
Tell us a little bit about it. Yeah.
3:45
So Kiwara, we are aiming to be the sales engine for the
3:51
Internet economy and I can go a little bit into, you know what
3:55
what we mean by that. So our thesis is that, you know,
4:00
businesses of the future would all be content LED.
4:03
So that's like that's basically including creators wanting to
4:07
monetize their audience, creating a business and also
4:11
businesses becoming creators, right?
4:13
We see more and more start-ups trying to post more, whether
4:16
it's on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, whatever.
4:19
So we, we definitely see this trend of like creators and
4:24
entrepreneurs merging together and trying to kind of monetize
4:29
their audience or like 100 their content and audience to sales.
4:34
And So what Cara's trying to do is to be that infrastructure or
4:37
glue to allow anyone who is in that realm to, you know,
4:41
effectively do that convergence. It's like whatever you need to
4:44
keep your audience engaged to like send them like links or
4:49
like shows converger. And like, we're trying to like,
4:52
take care of all of that. Incredible.
4:55
What specifically tools does it provide?
4:59
Yeah. So in our very first version, I,
5:02
I want to say we are focusing like niching down into helping
5:07
creators kind of like, like like robbing creators continuously
5:12
post newsletters. So an insight that we have from
5:16
like talking to like multiple creators is that the very
5:19
successful ones, they do a lot of their sales conversion, I
5:22
want to say at least 60% of them through newsletters.
5:25
And then when we talk to smaller kind of creators who are just
5:29
starting out, they, they're not, they're not aware of this.
5:33
They're like, they're like, oh, I've heard of like having
5:35
newsletters, but I didn't know the conversion was so high.
5:38
But like what they struggle with, you know, as as as just
5:42
like one person both creating content, like doing the sales
5:46
cycle, talking to customers is like doing that uptip.
5:49
So what Cara does is we help automate the whole process of,
5:54
you know, generating and also sending out the newsletters for
5:56
creators. Incredible.
5:59
I love it. Now this is kind of like I've
6:02
been preaching your gospel for some time because, you know,
6:06
I've been around the block a couple of times and the first
6:08
time you build a product and you take it to market and you're
6:11
like, I don't have anybody to to sell this to.
6:14
It's terrible. You know what, what founders
6:16
need to do long before the product is ready to ship is
6:20
start building their audience. I mean, you have to, you know,
6:23
kind of the tagline I always roll with is that, you know,
6:27
founders are influencers. You know, it's the same thing
6:30
now for me. You know, my platform's not
6:33
going to be TikTok because I don't look great doing squats in
6:36
the gym. Nobody wants to see those
6:38
videos, you know what I mean? But through newsletters, and I
6:43
only begun recently have been extraordinary.
6:46
I'll share a couple of little stats for you can tell me if I'm
6:49
on the right path here. I started the AI for Founders
6:52
newsletter that is accompanying this podcast and I've grown it
6:57
to probably about 27,000 subscribers and I started it in
7:04
January and it's been absolutely just super interesting to see
7:11
kind of the results of the newsletter.
7:13
Now the newsletter I put together is kind of
7:16
infotainment. I think that like business
7:18
entertainment is like that's what I'm interested in.
7:20
So you know, we, you get the headline news, you get cool
7:23
events and then you're able to kind of dabble to see what that
7:26
audience wants, you know, shorts from the podcast, things like
7:31
that. But then you can experiment with
7:33
different things. So as kind of a serial
7:36
entrepreneur, I like to always kind of see which way the pucks
7:39
going, see what people are interested in.
7:41
And before you make a significant investment, you can
7:44
test it, you know, with vibe coding tools or you know,
7:47
listeners to this podcast, I'm sure they're all subscribed to
7:50
the newsletter. So I'm always putting like
7:52
little survey, little gadgets, little things here and there to
7:55
see what people are really interested in, you know, and
7:58
with the, the newsletter, I'm getting like 40% open rates, 90%
8:03
deliverability. I'm seeing 5% click throughs,
8:06
like really, really strong signal showing that this is a
8:10
way that people like to digest information, at least from a
8:13
business kind of founder context.
8:16
Is that kind of the the signal that you saw to when you're
8:19
setting out to build Kiwara that like, hey, this is a great place
8:23
to start? Yes, exactly.
8:26
So I, I loved, I loved your stats and that's exactly what
8:29
we're saying. So I think one of the good
8:31
examples that one of our users share is fee is her YouTube
8:35
creator. She has about 51,000 YouTube
8:39
subscribers and then she has a newsletter which has about 2000
8:43
subscribers. So significantly less than than
8:46
her, her channel and so significantly like it's like a
8:49
decent site, but it's not like it's not huge, right?
8:52
But every time she gets a new call or she books, she gets
8:56
booked a new call from clients. She she would ask them like, you
8:59
know, where did you find me? Or like, how did you decide to
9:02
book this call? And she's seeing like twice the
9:05
like number of calls being booked through a newsletter.
9:08
So the clients would be like, oh, I receive a newsletter like
9:11
every week. And like, you know, it's like,
9:13
on one hand, it's the multi touch kind of like angle where,
9:18
you know, clients don't like people don't book like $300
9:21
calls, like the first time they see you, right?
9:24
Like it requires like multiple kind of touch points.
9:26
They watch your videos, they, they read a bunch of your
9:29
newsletters and then they kind of decide like, oh, this person
9:31
seems like an expert. I, I, I want to book a call or
9:35
at newsletter is a great way to consistently keep up with that.
9:39
And then we're also seeing that, you know, when you have like
9:43
when you have like subscribers to your newsletters, you know,
9:47
these people are like kind of a really like a curated sales
9:50
pipeline, right? These people are interested in
9:52
your content. They actively subscribe to you.
9:54
They wanna listen to your opinions, like see what you're
9:57
talking about. And that's very different from
9:59
like, let's say, posting a video, you know, or like a shot
10:03
from and just kind of like hoping that someone out there is
10:06
interested, right? Percent, you know, it's the
10:10
difference between owned and rented audience.
10:14
You know, you, you building a YouTube channel up to 50,000
10:17
Subs is an incredible feat. It's very, very difficult to do,
10:21
especially with the algorithm the way it is now.
10:23
You know, you have creators that have built, you know, millions
10:26
of Subs on YouTube. They put out a video and it gets
10:29
1000 views, you know, because YouTube changes things.
10:33
And they're like, yeah, we just don't feel like featuring your
10:35
video anymore. You know, whereas if you have an
10:37
e-mail address, you might have a relationship with that person
10:41
for a lifetime. Now the responsibility of that
10:45
is immense. You have to make sure you're
10:47
earning the spot in their inbox. Now, the other thing I love from
10:50
like kind of a tech business perspective is that like people
10:53
sit down to their desk and read, read emails.
10:56
You know, people are looking at YouTube clips, you know, 2 in
11:00
the morning trying to get some sleep or whatever, or they're
11:02
trying to fix their, their car. They, they need something, you
11:05
know, so you, you have the quality of attention with
11:08
newsletters. And all of this kind of came as
11:09
a big surprise because newsletters have been around
11:12
forever, you know, and I just unsubscribe as fast as I
11:15
possibly can because most people make terrible newsletters.
11:21
You know, nobody wants to see your patchwork of photos in your
11:24
calendar and in five different fonts with three different
11:27
colors. And it's just like, it's all
11:29
just mind blade, you know, But you know, when it's done
11:33
correctly, you know, and it looks like an e-mail, it drives
11:37
value really quickly. The call to action is very clear
11:40
and easy. You understand the value prop of
11:41
those? The conversions are out of
11:43
control. OK, everyone loves to talk about
11:46
vision, the pitch, the funding round.
11:48
But you know what gets 0 love? The actual product build.
11:52
That magical, terrifying phase where nothing works, the docs
11:56
are out of date, and you've asked your dev team how's it
11:58
going? For the 47th time today on
12:00
Slack, that's where Code Story comes in.
12:03
It's a podcast for startup founders who know that building
12:06
The thing is the thing. Hosted by NOAA Labheart, Code
12:09
Story goes deep with tech leaders who've been through it,
12:12
shipping real products, surviving messy launches, and
12:15
figuring out what actually works.
12:17
And when you're on the edge of chaos, if you're building now or
12:21
ever plan to, you'll want these stories in your ear Balls.
12:25
Search code story wherever you get your podcasts.
12:28
Or visit codestory.co. Because founders talk vision.
12:31
But builders? Builders tell code stories.
12:35
OK, I've got a confession. As a podcaster and founder, I'm
12:39
constantly meeting incredible people, guests, listeners, or
12:42
other entrepreneurs. But here's my little secret.
12:44
I'm terrible at following up. My inbox is basically a
12:48
graveyard of missed opportunities.
12:49
Does that sound like you? You meet someone amazing,
12:52
exchange emails, have great intentions, and then life
12:55
happens. Six months later, you're kicking
12:57
yourself thinking I should have stayed in touch with that
12:59
person. This is exactly why I started
13:01
using Warm Star dot AI and honestly, it's transformed how I
13:05
think about my network. Instead of letting relationships
13:08
go cold, Warm Start analyzes my existing contacts and helps me
13:12
identify I should be reaching out to and why it even writes
13:16
the outreach messages for me. But here's the key.
13:19
I review everything before it goes out.
13:21
I'm not just talking about this because they're a sponsor.
13:24
I'm talking about it because watching a healthcare executive
13:26
use this to build his entire Advisory Board in one weekend
13:29
with four CEO sign ups made me realize I was leaving money on
13:33
the table every single day. Your network is your net worth,
13:37
but only if you actually nurture it.
13:39
Check out warm start. dot AI. Use code AI IFF to get 50 bucks
13:45
off your first month. Stop letting your relationships
13:48
turn into miss revenue. I love it, yeah.
13:51
In fact, I think like one of the most effective newsletter kind
13:55
of format that we've seen is one that's a little bit more like
13:58
storytelling based. The same way you would do like a
14:01
YouTube video or like film, any sort of video.
14:03
It's sometimes I say like newsletter and then some people
14:07
would think like he's in that like super old school with that,
14:10
like, you know, product placement and stuff.
14:12
But that's not what like, you know, Cora does or like what the
14:15
creators are doing nowadays. It's very stalling storytelling
14:19
base. Very, you know, my opinion, I
14:21
read this, these are my thoughts.
14:23
They often don't have like big formatting, like it's, there's
14:27
no like big text or like very if it was personal, if it was like
14:31
you're having a conversation with the creator.
14:33
And I think, like, that's what really resonates with the
14:35
audience. A percent.
14:37
And that's not super intuitive for a lot of folks.
14:39
You know, writing is difficult. You're like, how people going to
14:42
interpret this? Is it too many words?
14:44
Is it too few words? So is that kind of what Kowara
14:47
does is gives kind of like a little bit of guidance and it
14:50
helps you flesh out ideas for the newsletter?
14:54
Yeah. So one of our, the, the huge
14:56
like thing that we're trying to push right now is that in
14:59
Kowara, we have these kind of like preset templates.
15:03
And that's really kind of stemming from also the intuition
15:07
that a lot of these like feeder preneurs, we call them a
15:10
solopreneurs, right? They want to save time.
15:13
Like the reason why they're using Koara is that they have a
15:15
bunch of things to do, You know, they want to get like a draft so
15:18
that they can quickly edit it and like, and stuff like that.
15:21
So we're trying to create systems around, you know, their
15:24
their entire business. And one of, and the core of that
15:28
system means that it needs to be something that's efficient or
15:32
like, you know, we're not just like generating stuff that will
15:35
take them another like hour to kind of edit, right?
15:38
And so how we do that is that we look at a lot of like successful
15:41
creators. So for example, we reference
15:44
like Ali up Dallas newsletters super successful creator thing
15:48
generates 6 figures just based on like conversion from his
15:51
newsletters. You know, Justin Welsh has like
15:54
a Sundays Entrepreneur newsletter that's like super
15:57
popular. So a lot of these like kind of
16:00
James Clear is another like, you know, popular newsletter that we
16:03
have like heard from our users. So we look at a lot of like how
16:06
these like popular creators are formatting A newsletter.
16:10
And then we kind of train our model or system to allow, we
16:14
first allow users to choose their templates to kind of see
16:16
what style they like, you know, they kind of sort like like
16:20
customize it a little put in their their own style.
16:22
But it's very kind of guidelined on like what we know works and
16:27
like we've seen that help a lot with like users who are just
16:30
starting up. Cool, let's use a case study.
16:33
I would love to see how I can use Kiwara because really I
16:37
publish once a week. I got 2 newsletters now, so I'm
16:41
publishing each of them once a week.
16:43
And I'm just trying to think to myself what's the way I can like
16:46
ramp up now when we're thinking about context for AI, generative
16:50
AI in particular, we're, we're moving quickly towards a time
16:53
when you can make absolutely anything you want and everyone
16:56
can make anything they want. So what's going to rise to the
16:59
top is really going to be the people that have good taste.
17:03
And you know, good taste is obviously subjective.
17:06
So if you're building products, you probably want to surround
17:08
yourself with people that have taste similar to yours.
17:12
You know, now we know that this works because we still got DJs.
17:16
We all can play our own music, you know what I mean?
17:18
But there's just something about finding a a badass DJ that makes
17:22
a mix that just blows your mind, you know what I mean?
17:24
Which is to say that they're kind of like the distributor of,
17:27
of content the way they see fit. So one thing I've been thinking
17:30
about is if I want to distribute taste to the people that, you
17:34
know, read my my newsletter is it doesn't necessarily always
17:38
have to be a personal anecdote, right?
17:40
I don't think my audience necessarily wants to hear me
17:42
talking about that. That time I was nine years old
17:45
on the farm and I had an idea about XYZ boring.
17:48
But rather if I say like, Hey, I heard this amazing podcast with
17:52
Eunice and she told this great story.
17:54
Let me tell it to you. Boom, boom, boom, call to action
17:57
to go listen to that podcast, You know what I'm saying?
18:00
Because then I feel like it's very trust building.
18:03
If I'm always selling, then it's like it's boring.
18:05
You know, it's just like that annoying person that that
18:08
corners you in the at a party and won't let you go talk to
18:11
somebody else. Like nobody wants that.
18:13
Rather they you want someone to be like, oh man, I saw this
18:16
great movie. Have you seen it?
18:17
No, I haven't. But you know, you, you, you're
18:19
connecting the dots. So let's say I want to use
18:22
Kawara for something like that. And I'm like, you know what?
18:25
I heard this great podcast with Eunice.
18:27
What do I, what do I do with it? How could I use Kawara to help
18:30
bring that into my my newsletter?
18:33
Yeah. So that's, that's a like feature
18:37
or like something that we've heard pretty often.
18:39
And we, we kind of, I guess the way that we think about it is
18:43
actually curation. So a lot of newsletters
18:45
nowadays, it's in any kind of personal curation style.
18:49
With Kawara, you can, first of all, if you do have a YouTube
18:53
channel, you can connect your own YouTube channel, right?
18:55
That's where we kind of look at the content that you're putting
18:57
out, but you are also able to kind of connect other people's
19:01
YouTube channel and kind of label that, oh, this isn't mine,
19:04
this is just kind of content that I consume.
19:06
We're also expanding to different types of sources.
19:10
So it's, you know, outside of YouTube channels, it could be
19:13
like blogs or like news channels, articles, things that
19:16
you kind of like content you consume.
19:19
And then once you kind of label that as like, not your own
19:22
content, we take that into account.
19:25
And when you generate a draft, it would sound something like,
19:28
you know, based on the goal of your newsletter, you know, who
19:31
your audience are, what you're trying to achieve.
19:33
It can sound something like, hey, I, you know, this week I
19:38
watched Joy's video on starting a startup and it made me think
19:42
of these few things, right? And so we kind of pieced
19:45
together what is your goal, what kind of content started you've
19:49
been putting out and also what's this new content that you've
19:52
consumed and and then we generate the drafts from there.
19:56
Oh, cool, I love it. So is it pulling the
19:58
transcriptions from YouTube and then it can like it digests all
20:02
the information to give you like amazing.
20:04
And do you have is there abilities to kind of fine tune?
20:07
So if I was like, hey, here's a two page document of exactly the
20:10
tone that I'm looking for and that can it take that and throw
20:13
it in kind of basic prompt engineering?
20:17
So we, we are adding the ability to fine tune Right now it's a
20:20
little raw. It's in the format of like kind
20:23
of you can add in your own prompt.
20:26
But we've kind of seen that, you know, as with like a lot of, I
20:29
think AI products right now, there is like a fine balance
20:33
between the amount of like control you want to give the
20:36
user and like, I guess the user experience.
20:40
Like, I think a lot of times like users say they want
20:42
control, but like they don't actually want they, they don't
20:45
want to make that choice, but they want to feel like they have
20:48
control. And so, so right now it's, it's
20:51
kind of raw. We are working on like ways that
20:55
it could be more intuitive but also allow you to kind of fine
20:59
tune and say like, Hey, I just wanted to sound a little bit
21:01
more like this or I want to add like this like certain section
21:04
just here. Tell me more about that.
21:08
OK, users think they want control, but really they don't.
21:13
Explain. Yeah, this is actually a
21:16
learning that I think I had in my working in my previous start
21:22
up. So I guess just for context,
21:24
before Kawara I was the founding engineer at another seat stop.
21:29
So it's also super early, you know, kind of was with them from
21:33
when we first like the inception till we raise the seat.
21:39
I came from a obvious like my personality is someone who likes
21:44
a lot of control. I like building my own things.
21:47
I like, like knowing exactly what's happening.
21:50
So I always thought like, you know, humans are like like that,
21:53
right? Like we want to know what's
21:55
going on. And then in my in in my previous
21:59
startup, I think that's the intuition I had going in.
22:02
So that's how I built a lot of the products.
22:05
And that's not what I saw like worked well with users.
22:11
It was just based probably based on user feedback, right?
22:13
Like I think I learned that, you know #1 core principles.
22:17
Humans are lazy. They don't, they don't actually
22:20
want to think if they can afford not to think.
22:24
They say they want choice because they don't want a few
22:26
constraint. I think that's the core of it.
22:29
But you know, whenever you're giving too many choices, it
22:34
gives you choice paralysis. And humans don't like that
22:36
feeling as well because it makes things hard to achieve, right?
22:39
It it's, it's, there's more barriers to the satisfaction of
22:43
getting your job done. And so I think that was my
22:46
biggest learning, I think from my previous startup where it's
22:48
like, yeah, humans don't actually want to, like, think
22:53
too much if they can. You know, I agree with you.
22:57
I would like to get your feedback on the parameters I've
22:59
put on me as I'm building AI products and really trying to
23:03
look towards where, what, what can we really do with AI in five
23:07
years? You know, I think that the, the,
23:10
the human computer interface will look very different.
23:13
I think the way that we're using tools and software, we will be
23:16
very different. So I want to kind of get ahead
23:18
of it when I'm thinking about it.
23:19
And I put these three parameters, I want to run it by
23:21
you. So first one, I want one button
23:24
to solve all my problems, second, typing sucks, and three,
23:30
I want the AI just to work like magic and I don't want to like
23:33
know it's working. I just wanted to give me what I
23:36
want. What do you think about that?
23:39
I love it. I love it.
23:41
I think this, the third, the third one's something I resonate
23:44
with a lot. It's also something I think it's
23:46
a little tricky right now, like in terms of I think what we've
23:49
seen from just how AI is progressing.
23:53
It's just like weird phase where everyone kind of wants that
23:58
eventually. But then when you actually put a
24:00
product out there, I guess this is what I've seen so far.
24:03
When you actually put a product out there that does things like
24:05
magically, you know, they don't, they don't trust it.
24:08
Like they're just like, all right, no, this is correct.
24:11
How do I like, no, you know, it's not malware.
24:15
You didn't do something else. And so like it's, it's, it's
24:18
very interesting because it's like, you can't, even though,
24:21
you know, that's the eventual state and even if you can build
24:25
it, you can't really like put the end product out there.
24:28
It has, I think what I've seen has been successful AI products
24:32
is like slowly moving users towards that, right?
24:35
So they do a lot of like show you what the agent is thinking.
24:39
And then it kind of builds like a level of trust with the user.
24:42
Even though I want to say like 80% of people don't actually
24:46
read the whole thing. But then like just because they
24:49
are able to see it, then after a while, you know, they, they,
24:53
they sort of trust it and like, I think even if you remove it,
24:55
they'll be fine. But if you don't give them that,
24:57
then then it's hard for them to even start using it.
25:01
So I think it's it's pretty like this whole human AI like
25:04
interaction space. It's very interesting.
25:06
It's like very like psychology based as well of like how much
25:10
control humans want to give away while not doing anything.
25:16
Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's interesting
25:17
because like take like open AI, you know, GPT, what was it, 3.5?
25:22
And even for a little bit real syncophantic, you know, where
25:25
where it's like complimenting you on absolutely everything you
25:29
do. So it's trying to build trust by
25:31
being like, oh, Ryan, that's a great question to ask, You're so
25:34
smart, blah, blah, blah. But like people like, I don't
25:38
want someone talking to me like this, you know, there's like a
25:40
threshold they're able to like to, to basically tolerate, you
25:45
know, so I'm thinking about what you're doing, which is really
25:47
smart because if somebody puts in their YouTube, then you can
25:49
kind of grok information. So there's probably a certain
25:52
amount of information you want to tell the person that put in
25:55
their YouTube to let them know like, Hey, I start to know you
25:58
like, oh, you know, you're making content about bunnies and
26:02
you really like flying kites and I love the backgrounds and all
26:05
your things. So there's a little bit like,
26:06
OK, OK, it knows me well enough to write for me, you know,
26:11
because ultimately everybody's going to be self-conscious about
26:14
writing, you know, it, it's really hard to write.
26:17
If there's one thing that the, the GPT era that we're in right
26:21
now gave us is it cleans your writing up.
26:23
So it it's so much more legible, which is fantastic, you know, So
26:28
it's interesting to think, you know, how do we build trust with
26:32
the machine just enough that we'll just let the magic work,
26:35
but not too much that you question it.
26:37
Like there's like this weird kind of nebulous Gray area.
26:42
Yeah, for sure. And I think for to me, I think
26:44
it's really just like a matter of like time and kind of like
26:47
product, like evolution in that like you have to give like
26:51
humans a little bit of time to adjust to like the new paradigm
26:55
of like riding along with a helper that kind of knows
27:01
everything. You know, you have to build the
27:02
trust over a period of time before like that.
27:06
I guess it's the same, you know, when you hire a new person, you
27:08
want to like spot check their work at the start and then only
27:12
after gaining a certain level of trust that you're like, OK, you
27:15
can do whatever you want. Yeah, 100%.
27:19
Very cool. OK.
27:19
How did you finance the company? We're currently bootstrap.
27:24
So it's it's really just me and my Co founder Joy and yeah,
27:29
we're bootstrap. It's been a pretty, I think
27:33
intentional decision as well. We had like, I guess a decent
27:39
amount like savings saved up before we embarked on this
27:42
journey. And then also with like a lot of
27:45
AI tools right now, you know, really building a product is not
27:48
as expensive as it used to be. And so we wanted to kind of
27:52
build out the product, get some traction, kind of see where we
27:56
are at if, if we need investing money before actually raising
27:59
money. This episode is brought to you
28:03
by Moeburst, the AI first growth engine trusted by iconic
28:07
startups like Calm, Robin Hood, Reddit, Uber and Google.
28:12
Moeburst is a digital, full service, mobile first marketing
28:15
agency that helps companies to scale and become category
28:19
leaders. Whether you're finding product
28:21
market fit or ready to accelerate growth, Moeburst
28:24
delivers creative, data-driven solutions that help with scale
28:28
and efficiency and impact. At Moburst, we're not just
28:31
guessing what works, we're predicting it.
28:34
As an AI first agency, Moburst uses cutting edge tools to
28:38
analyze user behavior, adapt creative in real time, and
28:42
uncover hidden growth opportunities.
28:44
The result? Marketing that's faster,
28:46
smarter, and built to convert from early stage startups to
28:50
global brands. We've helped hundreds of
28:52
companies overcome complex challenges, unlock new
28:55
audiences, and optimize every metric that matters.
28:59
At MO Burst, we believe that creative thinking, advanced
29:02
technology, and data are the core drivers of success at
29:05
scale. If you're serious about scaling
29:07
your business with precision and purpose, it's time to talk to MO
29:11
Burst. Visit moburst.com and let's
29:13
build something category defining together.
29:18
Amazing how much you spent so far on the project ballpark.
29:21
Actually, not. Not really.
29:24
Not a lot. It's it's probably less than
29:28
1000 I would say. 1000 bucks. Yeah, I mean excluding,
29:33
excluding our time and everything.
29:34
You know. Of course, of course.
29:36
Yeah. Really.
29:37
Like, I think less than 1000, yeah.
29:39
Incredible. That's so good.
29:41
Congratulations. What, what models and what, what
29:44
are you using to train and those kind of things kind of technical
29:46
details are you using like, like what tools are you using to
29:50
build if you mentioned the the AI tools?
29:53
Yeah, we use a variety of models actually.
29:56
So we have AI like the large language models, like coming in
30:00
at different parts of the systems that we've built.
30:05
For example, whenever we look at a like YouTube transcript or
30:09
like a content, we generate like summaries, we generate like
30:13
insights and stuff. So the different parts are
30:15
actually powered by different models.
30:17
And that's depending on, you know, we whenever we put
30:20
something new and we test the different models because they
30:24
all kinds, they all sound a little different, to be very
30:28
honest. I think the actual draft part,
30:32
the the best one, like the the most like human sounding one, I
30:36
would say is actually the entropic models.
30:39
So that's what we use for the draft.
30:41
But like I would say along the way there are like many parts
30:43
that we are kind of converting the data and like the content
30:47
into like different types of like blocks to be used.
30:50
So we touch different models there.
30:53
Credible and then revenue your your price point is basically 25
30:58
bucks a month. You've got a smash hit deal for
31:00
200 bucks for a year. How did you arrive at that price
31:04
point? Yeah.
31:06
I to be very honest, I'd say pricing is not a strong suit.
31:11
We're, we're still testing it out, right.
31:13
I think one of our core philosophies is that we know
31:17
that we are building for solar previous or like people with
31:20
like a small team, right? That's our, our whole thesis
31:22
that businesses are going to be lean and they're going to be
31:26
content. And so we didn't want to put
31:28
like a huge like, you know, enterprise price tag on this.
31:31
We also didn't want to cater to the enterprise people.
31:35
So we wanted it to be kind of the price where like, I guess
31:40
one person like just like what a single person running his
31:43
company would be comfortable paying.
31:49
And I guess like looking at like the features that we have now,
31:52
you know, we thought like this would be an appropriate like
31:55
price to start with. And then we'll kind of see if we
31:59
need to adjust if the costs go higher, but we're still testing.
32:05
I like it. I think it's a good, it feels
32:07
like at the right price point and a lot of it's kind of a gut
32:09
check right like. Yeah, I we, yeah, honestly, I
32:16
think we're kind of early in, in the product about a month.
32:20
And so you know, we like the price is not like a huge thing
32:25
to us. We we hear and there change it
32:27
or like get feedback on like what's too much and what's a
32:30
little we we definitely had feedback from some people that,
32:33
you know, oh, it's a bit high. And then we have other people
32:35
who is like, Oh no, for the value that you're providing, you
32:38
know, this is like this is easy to like pay for.
32:41
So we still test the price point, but at the same time we
32:44
going to focus a little bit more on like building out the the
32:47
core value before kind of going more into the pricing.
32:51
Percent 1 you guys are brand new company, so I really appreciate
32:54
you coming on and talking about it right now.
32:56
And I want to bring you back when it's when it's a full guns
32:59
of glory because it's so different and like the people
33:02
that are listening right now, you know, they love ideas.
33:05
They're they're like acting on ideas.
33:07
So having, you know, you in this position right now is super
33:11
valuable. So as far as like customers, how
33:13
many customers do you have right now?
33:16
We have about 50 customers. All right, So if I was to just
33:21
do the math easy, are you doing about 1 to 2K per month MRR?
33:28
Yeah, I guess I bought it, yeah. Cool.
33:31
Amazing. OK.
33:33
How did you find your first customer and how are you finding
33:36
customers now? Our first customer let me think
33:45
our first. So I think a good thing for us
33:49
is that like my Co founder Joy, she's a creator herself.
33:54
And so like that has helped a lot in terms of like getting us
33:57
into creating like communities or like events.
34:02
They're just like meant for creators.
34:04
And so like she has a network of like other kind of creator
34:07
friends and I think it started from there even like I think
34:11
during the product, like the ideation state where we're
34:15
trying to figure out like, you know, what's of value beta
34:17
testing with design partners along those were from like her
34:21
network and a lot of them have like continued to be cut
34:25
customers and then paying customers on us.
34:28
Well, any other marketing channels really working well for
34:31
you? So I mean we're a huge believer
34:36
about putting out content. So we we put out our content as
34:38
well. We put out content on YouTube
34:42
and LinkedIn and also expert, I think a little bit more a little
34:47
bit less on X because that's not really where our customer base
34:51
is at for now. So I think those has been those
34:55
have been super useful. When we look at the stats of
34:57
like where our new users are coming in from, it's actually
35:00
there's a lot coming in from YouTube.
35:02
So basically the content that we're putting out, you know,
35:06
people are clicking in to kind of see what this is.
35:11
So I think that's been the most useful.
35:12
We definitely do like code emails as well.
35:14
Those like, as you know, with code emails, the hit rates, not
35:18
that much, but we we do it anyway just because, you know,
35:22
when you're set up, you have to like just do whatever it takes.
35:27
Yeah, you should start a newsletter.
35:29
We do have a newsletter. So so Joy runs on newsletter and
35:35
that has been like, I guess like we've been slowly building up
35:38
the subscribers there and like kind of talking about our
35:40
startup as well. Yeah.
35:43
And then like warming tools have been great as well.
35:46
So, you know, our existing customers introduce us to like
35:50
more customers and then we have some customers who are also like
35:55
they run their own creator communities.
35:58
And so we've been using them as like good partnership to kind of
36:02
do like workshops or like deals and like kind of spread the
36:06
message from the on the platform.
36:09
Incredible. Now, you mentioned at the top
36:11
that your mission is a little bit bigger than newsletters.
36:15
Where do you see the product developing in the next 12
36:17
months? Yeah.
36:19
So which is definitely a lot bigger than newsletter.
36:24
We are right now still focusing sales, the sales cycle, right.
36:28
So when we look at the sales cycle of how you can convert
36:32
content into a sales conversion, right there is newsletter, it's
36:37
keeping your audience engaged, you know on a on a weekly basis.
36:41
There's also, like I said, posting on like other types of
36:44
platforms. So depending on where your
36:48
audience is, which is dependent on your business, right, Some
36:51
people might want to be posting on LinkedIn or like X or like
36:55
Instagram, like you know, wherever, wherever you find your
36:59
audience is. So that's something we also kind
37:02
of want to explore. There's also some element of
37:05
like being able to find deals or like partnerships for like these
37:10
creators or like founders, right, to say, you know, like on
37:16
top of just like generating drafts, we wanna include kind of
37:21
maybe like affiliate news that you already have running.
37:23
How do I more effectively put that in the newsletter?
37:26
So it doesn't sound so see, but you know, it's useful for your
37:29
audience. And then how do I find more news
37:32
that are also useful for, you know, that's a win win, right,
37:35
for both the creators and also the audience.
37:38
So finding like these partnerships, this more sales
37:41
like channels. It's also something that we're
37:43
looking at and then it was like maybe something that we we've
37:49
been sharing from our users. We haven't like we're still kind
37:53
of figuring it out. It's also going more into like
37:56
the actual payment stuff. So less of building a fintech,
38:00
but more of like, you know, some of our users, they do coaching
38:02
calls and when we ask them or how do you like, like, how do
38:06
you get payment for this? And it's a little scrappy.
38:09
You know, a lot of them are like just a one person.
38:11
So they're just like, oh, I just like kind of send them like my
38:14
Venmo or something. And and so like, we think
38:16
there's like a much better like process that could be put in
38:19
place for like a lot of these like solar printers love.
38:22
It amazing. So cool.
38:27
Now are are you planning on raising around at some point?
38:30
There's investors listen to this podcast.
38:33
Is there opportunity for them? I think, I think we are
38:40
depending on where I guess like how, how big it grows.
38:44
On the one hand, we, we, you know, it's like if we can keep
38:50
all the equity for ourselves, that's also great.
38:53
But I think when it comes to to investors, like I think we are
38:58
very intentional also about like the investors who are being on
39:03
board because we, because like I like I said, it's, it's, I guess
39:08
for now, we like, you know, we're not, we're not doing like
39:11
B.Tech stuff, right? We're not doing like R&D that
39:14
requires like a lab that requires like millions of
39:16
funding. And so we've been able to find a
39:19
lot of it ourselves. And so when we think about
39:21
investors, we really want to bring on board people who I
39:24
think can give us more like, you know, like network connections
39:28
or like insights into and also people that really believe in
39:31
what we're doing, believe in the creator economy, believe in the
39:34
future of entrepreneurship. And so that I think like it's, I
39:41
think it requires a bit more time to get to know the
39:44
investors and like their, their thesis before we kind of go into
39:49
anything further. Yeah, OK.
39:54
Tech is the kind of maybe stereotypically or notoriously a
39:58
lot of dudes. How's it been being a woman and
40:02
acto in tech? I'm glad you brought this.
40:06
I'm feeling not many people talk about this.
40:10
It's definitely been different. I would say it's not as I, so
40:21
I've been in tech for almost 7 years for now and I, I actually
40:28
think like generally the tech culture is pretty inviting them.
40:34
It's, it's not as like, I guess like scary essence as like, oh,
40:38
no one listens to you in meetings.
40:39
But you do see like a lot of like kind of micro stuff where
40:45
when we talk to I think investors, you know, I think
40:48
females are generally regarded as a little bit less confident
40:52
or, you know, too nice or like, you know, easily like pushed
40:55
over. And so we, we do see like a
40:58
little bit more of kind of these like, I guess like initial
41:05
impressions of what it is to be a female in tech.
41:09
I think that's like something that we've seen pretty often.
41:13
And then maybe that's also kind of just like the cultural like
41:17
dinner talk. When you go to like tech
41:18
conferences, there's like a 95% like mental ratio.
41:24
And sometimes you're, we don't really have common topics.
41:27
So I think like that. So something where, you know, it
41:30
feels a little like jarring, but then in like, I think generally
41:35
because I think a lot of tech people are very like nerdy in
41:39
general. So if you like, once you reach
41:42
this state where you're just like talking more about like the
41:44
details and the facts, it's been pretty OK.
41:48
Yeah. Is there, Is it, are there
41:51
attributes where it's kind of a superpower?
41:55
Yeah, I I definitely think so. I think in terms of like, I
42:00
guess like talking to our users. I also don't want to generalize
42:06
it to like kind of male versus female thing.
42:09
But I think the part, the parts where versus have just been like
42:13
you're a little too nice. You're a little you've seen like
42:17
your pushover that has worked super well with our users.
42:20
So we have like gotten a lot of like our initial design partners
42:24
when you know, when you're in a stage where like kinda nobody
42:26
wants to talk to you and cuz you're like a nobody, a lot of
42:29
our design partners are like, you know, I replied to your Co
42:34
e-mail or like I replied to your message.
42:36
Because you just you seem, you seem genuine, like, you know,
42:39
you seem real genuine, down to earth.
42:43
And so like all those kind of characteristics have like helped
42:46
us a lot in terms of the user side.
42:49
Yeah, it's incredible. Thank you.
42:54
And and typically CT OS aren't out here, you know, selling on
42:57
podcast. So you're, you're managing both
42:59
sides of the responsibility, like kind of handling a little
43:01
sales and marketing, doing the back end stuff.
43:04
What's kind of your favorite part of running a startup?
43:09
My favorite part is probably building the product.
43:14
I think I have been having pretty much an entrepreneur like
43:19
since younger, like I think I wanted to and I think, you know,
43:24
the interest stems from trying to figure out what's valuable to
43:28
people and like whether you can convert that to I guess the the
43:33
money. It's like a proxy for like
43:35
what's valuable, right? Like I've been always been
43:37
interested to like think about like, OK, when you're selling a
43:39
product, like what does it mean to create something that's
43:43
valuable? Like, right, one of the
43:45
experiments that you have to run, one of the metrics like to
43:48
prove that it's actually valuable.
43:50
And I think like building a product has a lot of that
43:55
involved, right? It's not just a tech of like
43:56
making something work, but also kind of seeing like how people
44:00
are using it, right? Are they clicking the right
44:04
stuff? And if they're not, then like
44:06
why? And that kind of gives you
44:08
insights into like what they're trying to achieve and how you
44:11
can like change the product or like the UI or the UX to kind of
44:17
fit your needs more. And I think that process has
44:19
been pretty enjoyable for. Me super fun to to get people to
44:24
behave the way you want them to and they're happy and they're
44:27
satisfied. It's great.
44:29
Yeah, for sure. And even kind of just like
44:31
learning about like what they're trying to do, which sometimes I
44:35
think surprises you as well. I think that's also pretty,
44:38
pretty interesting, right Where you like think people would do
44:42
certain things and you realize that that's not true.
44:47
I think that's a pretty fun. Totally highlighted my career at
44:51
one of them was I I designed a product is about is 9900 bucks
44:55
just South of 10,000 put a landing page together a big
44:59
button where you hit the button put in your credit card and it
45:01
charges you 9900 bucks it's got a sale oh.
45:06
Wow. I know I got him on the phone.
45:09
It's amazing. Did you really put your you
45:13
bought this just like from a sales page?
45:15
It was great, but it is very satisfying to to make things
45:19
that people want. And Speaking of that, I know I
45:21
know founders, especially technical folks, always got a
45:24
couple of ideas in their back pocket.
45:26
Now, the, the, the listeners of this podcast love business
45:30
ideas. So if your only mission was to
45:33
make 1,000,000 bucks, what's a business somebody might start
45:36
tomorrow that could do it? If your only mission is to make
45:45
money and I think if you want to do it fast, maybe launch a bunch
45:49
of like small AI tools. I think that's something like
45:54
something that's like super small and don't, you don't need
45:58
like maintenance on that multiple like new features like
46:02
like a Chrome extension that like, like, I guess like
46:08
something that I've seen is that like, you know, how like some
46:12
e-commerce people, they buy stuff from like Alibaba or like
46:16
like just those Chinese website. And it's just kind of a little
46:19
hard to like, like keep track of like the receipts there and like
46:23
doing the, the accounting and auditing.
46:26
Honestly, like a Chrome extension that like keeps track
46:28
of like what you've bought, automates it, puts in your
46:31
Google sheet and set it for like 20 bucks or something.
46:35
And then you do a bunch of these that I, you know, you can create
46:38
one like pretty easily in like a day.
46:41
You do a bunch of this I think, like you should be able to make
46:43
some quick money. Yeah, I've been thinking about
46:46
Chrome extensions too, just because, you know, like gem and
46:51
I put gem and I in Chrome now so you can hit that button.
46:53
I don't know what it really does.
46:55
It's got the little star up there, you know, like, what are
46:57
we doing with that? But there's like, I'm obsessed
47:01
with a couple of things. I've been doing a lot of
47:03
surveys. People love surveys and little
47:05
games because people like to be told about themself.
47:08
You know, like astrology. It's like, oh, I'm a
47:11
Sagittarius, so I don't eat peas and rice.
47:14
I'm Sagittarius. That's what we do.
47:16
Or I love swimming because I'm a Capricorn and we're a water
47:21
sign. So like people love to learn
47:23
about themself. It whether it's correct or not,
47:26
it's kind of arbitrary. You'll make yourself fit if you
47:29
have kind of like some logic behind a system.
47:32
And I was thinking about a Chrome extension that basically
47:35
watched where you go and starts to put you in kind of these
47:38
categories, like whatever you want to call it.
47:40
Like you're, you're a visionary thinker and visionary thinkers
47:44
love going to eBay and looking for vintage watches.
47:49
And then we saw that you were on eBay and just gives you like
47:53
little predictions, little tasks, little side quests or
47:56
something. You know, I, it's a terrible
47:58
idea. It's not fully baked out here.
48:01
But I, I think that like, there's a lot of opportunity
48:03
with this when you're starting to think with, with AI, how you
48:06
can basically grok massive amounts of data and personal
48:10
data that people will gladly opt into if there's a reward.
48:14
Now, people, I think some of the people I admire are really
48:17
looking for really beautiful, you know, proactive, productive
48:21
ways that people can use their time.
48:23
But I'm thinking about ways that people just want to waste their
48:26
time doing like silly things. I, I think so if anybody's out
48:31
there listening, wants to build that product, let's do it.
48:33
I'm in. I'm in for it.
48:35
No, I think that's amazing and and I think the the insight that
48:40
people want to learn like I guess like share about
48:42
themselves 100% like spot on. Like I don't know if you're into
48:46
the MBTI stuff, it's like a. Is that the GP stuff?
48:51
It's the like, you know, intf. Oh yeah, yeah.
48:55
Yeah, Yeah. That's a great.
48:56
Yeah, it's like a huge craze in anger.
48:59
It's it's to the point where like whenever you meet someone
49:01
new, it's like, what's your MBTI?
49:04
And then I was like forced to figure out what my MBTI was to
49:07
have a normal conversation with anyone.
49:10
So I think that's a great idea. Yeah, shout out to my boy Paul.
49:14
But like all these people, they're into like the gene keys.
49:17
And so they're, they're always asking like, oh, are you a
49:19
projector? I'm like, dude, I don't, I don't
49:21
know, man. I don't know.
49:23
My mother's a Christian, so she won't tell me what time I was
49:26
born because she doesn't want me doing some kind of devil's test
49:29
or something, I have no idea. So, you know, but it's great.
49:34
And I, I, I love that kind of stuff, you know, and I talk
49:36
about on this podcast sometimes and I love to talk to it with
49:39
people that design products that like our core, what humans
49:43
really want never changes, you know, And so I have the, a
49:47
collection of all these little idols, you know, well, they're,
49:49
they're replications. They're not the old ones, but if
49:52
you go to like old digs, you know, 7-8 thousand years old,
49:55
you'll see these little dolls. And basically these little dolls
49:58
are just medicine for what is ailing them and what's ailing
50:02
them. Well, they don't have enough
50:03
hair or they have too much hair or they can't get pregnant or
50:07
they, they've had too many kids or they want to gain weight or
50:11
they want to lose weight. Like all the, our core needs are
50:14
always the same and always will be throughout time.
50:17
You know, like either we're, we're sad or, you know, we're
50:21
lonely, like all of these things.
50:22
So when I'm starting, when I think about products that I want
50:25
to build, it's like, how do you just like put AI on top, on top
50:30
of one of these like little idols?
50:32
You know what I mean? Because really we're just trying
50:35
to soothe the same symptoms no matter what it is, you know, and
50:38
speed and precision is something we'll always want, you know.
50:42
So, you know, I'm really excited about your tool.
50:44
I can't wait to try it either. I'm, I'm just giddy.
50:47
I can't wait to check it out. It's going to be really cool.
50:49
OK, last couple of questions here.
50:53
Knowing what you know now, if you're entering school as
50:55
college as a freshman, what do you study?
51:01
I'm not sure I would go to college if it costs the same in
51:06
terms of time and money as it did for me, I guess.
51:10
But if I think I had to pick one, I really appreciate, I
51:15
think what my engineering background gave me in terms of
51:19
like how to think of systems. So I think a lot of people are
51:22
like caught up on like, oh, you don't have to do math anymore
51:25
because AI can solve everything. You don't have to like learn
51:27
about like, you don't have to learn how to code because AI is
51:29
going to code for you. And I think a lot of these is
51:31
like shooters to an extent. But I also think, like, you
51:34
know, the core of like going to school, like being in a learning
51:38
environment is not really to learn the actual thing, but it's
51:41
to learn how to learn, right? It's to learn the like how
51:45
systems work with each other. How do you problem solve?
51:48
How do you like break big problems into like small
51:50
problems? And these are like core to like
51:52
everything you do in life, right?
51:54
Whether you want to be an entrepreneur, how do you tackle
51:57
ambiguous stuff? And so like, I think like just
52:00
like starting something that has like a lot of like
52:02
experimentation involved, I would do maybe like a hard
52:05
science like physics or like chemistry where you kind of
52:08
learn to deal with the ambiguous, like wall and like
52:11
breakdown problems. I think like those are like core
52:14
skills that you can still use regardless of where it is AI or
52:17
not. Where did you go to school?
52:22
I did my degree in Berkeley. Berkeley.
52:26
Nice. What was more expensive, tuition
52:29
or the time? Oh, probably, you know what,
52:41
when you're young, your time is cheaper, but maybe, maybe not
52:44
for kids these days because you can do a lot of things.
52:49
But yeah, I spent, I spent a while kind of repaying my
52:52
student loan. I would say Thai maybe I did.
52:58
I did three years in college. I would do college again if it
53:02
was like maybe a year and a half or like at least 2.
53:06
I agree. I agree.
53:07
You know, when when I was 19, my time was cheap.
53:10
It wasn't worth nothing, you know, but but now it's like,
53:13
boy, it's been in four years, you know, would be be fun.
53:18
I would love it. It would be great.
53:19
OK, last question. Who is a female founder or a
53:23
woman CEO that we should be paying attention to right now?
53:28
That we should be paying attention to.
53:40
Well, and Nick, you might explode.
53:46
Right there at the end. Oh, hello.
53:52
There we go. I got you.
53:53
You got me. I can you.
53:57
OK, cool. I I lost you right there.
54:00
If there's a is if there's a woman CEO or founder that we
54:03
should be paying attention to. Yeah, I think it's a woman, I
54:09
would say founder that I'm a huge like fan of.
54:11
This is the previous CEO of Open AI, like Mira Morati.
54:18
You know, I think like she's done an awesome job with Open
54:20
AI. To be very honest, I didn't know
54:24
that TTO was like a female before, like looking more into
54:28
open AI. So I basically went in with like
54:31
this looks like a great product. Let me like look more into like
54:34
the team. And I was like, oh good.
54:36
Like, you know, the CTO is a woman like and I think like that
54:39
was like very inspiring. She's gone on like now she's,
54:43
she has her own company to the thinking reps It's I think still
54:47
kind of in the R&E stage. But I think, you know, I'm super
54:51
excited to see kind of what she builds.
54:54
Reed I love her too. Eunice this has been amazing.
54:57
Where can people find you online?
55:02
Bora is a disco channel where we are we're really active.
55:04
So like anyone can like ping me there also.
55:07
I'm also active on X and I can also drop my link there.
55:12
Tremendous. And it's Kawara, KAWARA dot AI.
55:17
This has been fantastic. Thanks so much for spending time
55:20
with me. Yeah.
55:21
Thank you, Ryan. Hey founders, let me ask you
55:26
this. Are you building with AI or
55:28
getting left behind by it? If you're serious about scaling
55:32
smarter, faster and bolder, you need to check out AI for
55:36
founders.co. It's your go to resource for
55:40
cutting through the noise and actually using AI to grow your
55:43
startup. Each week, AI for Founders drops
55:47
a sharp, no fluff newsletter, dives deep with expert guests on
55:51
the podcast, and hosts monthly workshops where you can get your
55:55
hands dirty with the real tools and strategies.
55:58
Whether you're precede or Series B and beyond, launching
56:02
something new or just staying sharp, AI for Founders gives you
56:06
the edge you need to win in 2025 and beyond.
56:09
Hit AI for founders.co to subscribe to the newsletter,
56:14
tune into the podcast, and grab your spot in the next workshop,
56:18
and it's all free. Build smarter, move faster,
56:21
think bolder with AI for Founders.
56:24
Now back to the show.