Latest / The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast / 28. Part Two: Safe-guarding yourself from 'alienation' accusations - unsupervised day visits & drug and alcohol testing

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28. Part Two: Safe-guarding yourself from 'alienation' accusations - unsupervised day visits & drug and alcohol testing · The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, thanks for joining me on another episode of the post-separation abuse podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is part two of a series of podcasts designed to help you safeguard yourself from alienation accusations.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I know it shouldn't be needed, it shouldn't be necessary for you to have to safeguard yourself from false accusations that you are the problem when you've been a victim, survivor of coercive control and perhaps other forms of family violence.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be needed, but the reality is it is needed.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: In this country, women are often painted as being liars when it comes to allegations that they are making regarding family violence.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Women are often disbelieved.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: There is a belief in the community that women lie about abuse in order to prevent the other parent from having any time with the children.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: This is a pervasive belief that has zero factual basis.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: All of the research into this suggests that the vast majority of women who make allegations of family violence are telling the truth.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: The vast majority are telling the truth.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And yet, when it comes to family law, when it comes to the court system, when we're talking about parenting matters, women are placed in an adversarial situation where they have to somehow prove what it is that they have experienced.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: They have to ensure that they are credible.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And if your children are resisting or refusing time with the other parent because of the abuse that they've experienced or the abuse that they have witnessed, you are then much more likely to be accused of alienation, to be accused of interfering with the relationship that your children have with the other parent, to be accused of saying negative things about the other parent to the children.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: What's the truth?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: The truth is that many of these kids are scared of the abusive parent, for good reason.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: The number one predictive factor for how a man is going to treat his children after separation is not only how he treated his children during the course of the relationship with their mother, but also how that man has treated the mother of his children and how he continues to treat her.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: That is the most predictive factor here.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: These men don't leave a relationship and have a personality transplant.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: A relationship doesn't end and suddenly a man stops being an entitled controlling abuser.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: That's not how this works.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: A controlling man's behaviour is underpinned by his personality, by his values, attitudes beliefs about women values, attitudes and beliefs about relationships, and often those things include expecting a woman to be a servant to him.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: None of that changes after separation.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: The desire to control her doesn't stop when she leaves, or even if he leaves.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: What is the best way To control a woman?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Control her children?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm doing this series of podcasts to help inform you of ways that you can help to safeguard yourself against alienation accusations sticking, and I hate that.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: It is necessary for me to do this.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I hate it with a passion, but I'm passionate about this work that I do.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I know how it feels to be looked at as though you're a liar.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I know how it feels to be accused of being a liar about abuse.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I know how it feels to have your child accused of being a liar when they disclose abuse.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I know what it takes to help ensure that you maintain credibility.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be this hard.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be something that you are required to do, and if you're in this situation, I'm sorry.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: If you're in this situation, I am so sorry.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: The law is failing you.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: The law is failing all of us.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: It's failing women and it's failing children, and until we get this right, family violence isn't going to stop.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Until we stop handing children over to abusers, the epidemic of family violence isn't going to stop, because family violence is learned.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Children don't get to adulthood and then suddenly decide they're going to become controlling and abusive.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: That's not how this works.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Children learn that this is okay.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Boys learn from what they see their fathers doing and saying to their mothers.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: This is learned, and by putting these children back in the hands of coercive controllers, of emotional abusers, psychological abusers, financial abusers, physical abusers, by putting our most precious children back into the hands of these men, this cycle is only going to continue.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: But the system is what the system is.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: And pushing back against the system, refusing to accept the system none of that is going to improve your outcome.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Instead, it's going to really seriously jeopardize your outcome.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Don't be a hero.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Don't push back against the system because you know it's broken.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Work with the system, learn the system, learn what the system expects of you and use that to your advantage.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That's why my clients work with me, because the family law system, the court system, the adversarial nature of family law is so problematic I don't even have the words.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It's a huge problem and it's not going away anytime soon.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: It's up to you to inform yourself.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It's up to you.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Your kids need you to be informed.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You are their last line of defence.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm having this conversation with you now.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: That's why I do the work that I do.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Danielle Black and I'm the coach you need if you're dealing with post-separation abuse.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I help you make sense of ongoing abusive behaviour after separation and help you take back your power and control.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Let's go In part one released last Friday.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I spoke about safeguarding yourself from alienation accusations by providing supervised visitation instead of cutting off visitation with the other parent completely.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the visits being supervised by a professional supervisor at a supervision centre or children's contact centre.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't talk about visits being supervised by family members, because that can be really problematic in a number of ways.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Family members or friends supervising visits is not necessarily going to be a protective factor for your kids.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: If you're thinking about going down that pathway.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: If someone known to you, known to your family, known to the kids to be the supervisor, that must be someone who will be prepared to step in if your ex-partner does something or says something that is potentially harmful, and herein lies the problem.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, many people don't recognise coercive control for what it is.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Many people don't recognise manipulation and attempts to influence, coach and control.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Many people don't recognise those things and if people do recognise them, many people are not prepared to actually step in between the abuser and the children in order to protect the children.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: So this is something that you need to think about, that you need to consider if you've been thinking about asking a friend or family member to be the one supervising the visits.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: It's also worth pointing out that supervised visits are usually not forever.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: They're usually not for the long term.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: There's usually an end date where unsupervised visits will occur at some point in time.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: This is really case specific.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It does depend on the behaviour, the sorts of abuse that have been perpetrated in the past.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: It can depend on if there's been problematic use of drugs or alcohol.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: It can be dependent upon there being hair follicle testing that comes back clean, demonstrating that the person is no longer using drugs.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: It can depend on regular alcohol testing as well, through something like a backtrack system that's B-A-C track that's for if there's been problems with alcohol.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: There can be those sorts of things put in place in conjunction with supervised visits, with an expectation that supervised visits won't last forever.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: But again, there are some families whereby supervised visitation is the only form of safe time that the children will ever have with the other parent.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: If the nature of the abuse that you and all the kids have experienced from your ex-partner has not been physical or sexual in nature.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: If it's primarily been coercive control, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, you need to wrap your head around the fact that supervised visits will not be forever.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: That's something to radically accept.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: But if drugs and alcohol have been a concern and if they're one of the reasons why supervised visitation is important, then you can be requesting regular hair follicle checks and you can actually specify that you want the hair tested to be from a place other than the head of your former partner.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: These people can obviously try to avoid drug use being detected, so, for example, they might shave their head, they might dye their hair in an attempt to throw off results, those sorts of things.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So it can be important to specify that the hair come from somewhere other than their head.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: And I also mentioned the backtrack system in order to monitor alcohol use.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: You can request that your former partner purchase the backtrack device, which can then connect via Bluetooth to a smartphone where there's an app available, and they can be required to provide you with evidence, perhaps an hour before the scheduled visit time, of a zero blood alcohol concentration.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: They can be required for the visit to go ahead, depending on their alcohol consumption.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Depending on the extent of the problems that they may have with alcohol, they may or may not be able to do that.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So if you're putting this in place, requesting that they provide you with a screenshot as proof that they have a 0.00 blood alcohol concentration, if you're requiring this of them, it's important that you also are prepared to cancel the visit, to have the visit not go ahead if they don't provide you with a screenshot at all, or if they provide you with a screenshot and they are over 0.00 blood alcohol concentration.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: So the hair follicle testing and the backtrack system can be used in conjunction with supervised visits or with unsupervised time.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: If you're not concerned to the point of wanting supervised time, you can offer unsupervised time, but not overnight time.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: If your child is under the age of five and your former partner has been controlling or abusive in other ways, I strongly recommend that you avoid overnight time straight away.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: However, you can offer multiple opportunities that don't include overnights.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: The age of your children will determine what hours are appropriate here whether they attend daycare, kindergarten, school, that sort of thing.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: If we're talking about school aged children, there can be one or two afternoons a week in which they spend time with the other parent from the conclusion of school, so around 3.30 until perhaps 6.30.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: That gives the other parent the opportunity to spend time with the children on those particular days.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: So for example, it could be Wednesday afternoons between 3.30 and 6.30, or perhaps Tuesday and Thursday afternoons.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I don't recommend every afternoon.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: If you're pressured by the other parent to make your child available every single day, please say no, that is absolutely not required of you.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: But one or two afternoons a week for a handful of hours in which your children can spend time with the other parent.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Perhaps the other parent can provide them with some dinner and then they can be returned to your care.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And if we're thinking about a two week rotation, there could be a few hours of time with the other parent on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons and then perhaps some time every second weekend, perhaps Saturday from 10am until maybe 4pm, depending again on the age of your child.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: If you've got a young child needing a nap, that timeframe might not be appropriate.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: If you've got a school aged child, every second Saturday and Sunday might be appropriate, but again with no overnight in between.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Particularly if you've got concerns about control and other forms of abuse Soon after separation, it is not necessary for you to be immediately offering overnight time with the other parent.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: In fact, it could be really detrimental for your children to just immediately make them available for that overnight time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Kids need predictability, stability, consistency, routine and if you are their primary caregiver, if you are the one who has been primarily caring for them, doing the day-to-day heavy lifting of parenting, the bedtime routines, things like that, unless the other parent was doing those things so low for a considerable amount of time, what your kids need most of all is you.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: They need you.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: You're the one who they likely have the secure attachment to, and anything that your ex tells you about having a right to overnight time with the children is bullshit.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Parents don't have rights.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Parents have responsibilities.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: It's the kids that have got the rights.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: The kids have a right to be safe.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: The kids have a right to have their needs met, to have their best interests put first, and if they're used to you being the parent to care for them, you being the parent to put them to bed, to do that bedtime routine, then what they need is for that to continue and for any change to be carefully planned for and planned for according to their needs and best interests, not according to the demands of your ex.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: So we've spoken about supervised time.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: We've spoken about the way in which hair follicle testing for various drugs and blood alcohol concentration using a backtrack system, how those things can be used, whether we're talking about supervised visitation or unsupervised visitation that does not include overnight time.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: These are things that you can put in place when you're concerned about the parenting of the other parent, even if, to your knowledge, they have not done something directly to the children.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: If they have been controlling towards you, if they have been abusive in any way towards you and I'm talking emotional abuse, psychological abuse, financial abuse, I'm not just talking about physical or sexual abuse if your ex-partner has been abusive to you in any of those ways, then that's a good predictor that they are going to be abusive to your children.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Something that I often hear from clients when they first start working with me is a defence of the ex-partner that he was an abusive partner, was not a great partner, but that he's a great dad, and to that I always say bullshit.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: We need to call bullshit on this right now.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: A man who controls the mother of his children is not a good father.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: A man who abuses the mother of his children in any way emotionally, psychologically, financially doesn't matter.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Whichever way, that man is not a good father.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: So this might be something that you need to wrap your head around.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Please do not put your kids in the care of someone who has been coercively controlling towards you for a long time.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: You are the last line of defence when it comes to your kids and it's really hard to wind back things that you put in place early on if you later regret them.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It is far better to start off small, to start off in a very careful, planned way and then build up from there as appropriate, depending on the age of the children.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: That's what your kids need from you.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: They need you advocating for them as opposed to you giving in to the demands of their other parent.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I'll say that again your kids need you advocating for them.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: They don't need you giving in to the demands of your ex.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Giving in to the demands of your ex is not in the best interests of your children.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that your ex does not have the best interests of the kids at heart.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: They might be capable of putting on a pretty good show that they do, but please believe me, they don't Abusive and controlling men are emotionally immature.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: They hold their partners and their children responsible for how they themselves feel they are controlling and they will do anything and everything to maintain control of you, including feigning and interest in being a parent.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: There's a place for supervised visits.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: There's a place for short, unsupervised time that doesn't include overnight.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: There's a place for hair follicle testing and there's a place for using backtrack systems when there's been problems with alcohol.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: That's always going to lead to you being perceived far better than if you were just to refuse any and all time between the kids and the other parent.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: So, facilitating time with the other parent in some way, shape or form, and also requiring other safeguards, that shows that you are prioritising the children spending time with the other parent, but that you are also prioritising their safety and again, do I think any of this should be necessary?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: No, I think.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: If there's a person out there abusing drugs and alcohol, who's coercively controlling, is an entitled abuser, I don't think there should be any obligation for you to be facilitating time between them and the kids.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I think what that person has to offer to the children is primarily going to be harmful.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Are they ever going to be capable of being a healthy parent with something positive to offer.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: But this isn't about my beliefs.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: This is about what the court expects and if you are separating from someone like this, you need to anticipate that at some point in time they may run off to a lawyer with a convincing narrative that you're the problem and they may initiate legal proceedings.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And you need to have something to stand on so that you can credibly present as a mother who is doing what you can to facilitate safe time between the kids and the other parent.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: The things that I've mentioned in terms of supervised time or unsupervised time, of shorter durations that do not include overnights, requesting hair follicle testing, that your ex can just take themselves off to the GP and request that Using the backtrack system you can Google that it's B-A-C and then the word track.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I have no affiliation with this company or their product.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: The reason that I know about this is that many of my clients are requiring their ex-partners to utilize this particular device and system to send screenshots of 0.00 blood alcohol concentration prior to visits in order for the visits to go ahead.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Utilizing these things in order to create more safety for your children in the care of the other parent are important not just because they allow you to facilitate time with the other parent therefore you're not likely to be labeled as a withholding mother, a gatekeeping mother, an alienating mother but also they give credibility to the allegations that you have toward your ex-partner of family violence, of excessive alcohol use, of drug use, those sorts of things.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: If you just simply acquiesce to the demands of your ex-partner, just give him whatever time he wants with the kids or give him overnight time with the kids, even though you've got concerns about his behavior and his parenting capacity, even though you've got concerns about his style of parenting, the way that he disciplines the kids, even though you've got concerns because you've been a victim of his behavior, even though you've got concerns because of alcohol or drug use, if you just hand out your kids over, it's fair and reasonable that any claims you later make regarding concerns about the kids safety, it's reasonable that your credibility would be questioned.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: It's reasonable that people may not believe you.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And this is because most court professionals are not trauma informed.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Most court professionals are not going to be thinking okay, this lady was clearly traumatized and is just acquiescing to the demands of her ex, even though she's got safety concerns.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: That's not what they're going to be thinking.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: They're likely going to be thinking if this lady really has safety concerns, what the hell has she been doing?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Handing your kids over to this guy?
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So putting these safeguards in place for your kids safety is not just about protecting yourself from accusations of withholding, gatekeeping and alienation.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: It's also helping to firm up your foundation when it comes to the allegations that there can be around family violence, when it comes to your beliefs and your concerns around the suitability of your ex partner as a parent.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I know this is a challenging issue.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: It's a challenging topic.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: It's challenging for me to share this stuff with you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I wish the system was different.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I wish that there was more that I could do to help you.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: This is one of the reasons why a lot of my clients are working with me for personalized help to safeguard themselves, to safeguard their case, to safeguard their kids.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: The system's not changing anytime soon, but it is possible to work within the system to optimize the outcome for ourselves and to optimize the outcome for our kids.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I know how hard it is.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I lived it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I wish that you were not living it as well, but we are stronger and braver together.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Please know you are not alone.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I understand what you're feeling right now if you're having to hand your children over to someone who's abusive, someone who's controlling, someone who is self-absorbed and selfish, emotionally immature, with questionable parenting skills.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I understand more than you'll ever know.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I get it, and so many other women in this country get it too.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: There's so many of us.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: There's so many women that have come before you that have endured this.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: There are so many women that are navigating this right now, and you don't have to do this on your own.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Please join me for Friday's episode, where I talk about some other things that you can do to help safeguard yourself from accusations of alienation.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining me.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.