Latest / Generations Church / Apologetics Series 2024 - Part 3: The Problem Of Evil | Samuel Nesan & Andy Yeoh

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Apologetics Series 2024 - Part 3: The Problem Of Evil | Samuel Nesan & Andy Yeoh · Generations Church

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Hey there, you're listening to the Generation's Church podcast. We pray that the
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word of God today will challenge, change and channel you into your God given
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destiny. Now let's get started. So today we're gonna deal with something called
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the problem of evil. And the problem evil is basically this problem. It's
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called a problem because it's a struggle. Uh. There is a conflict,
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and as human beings, we find difficulty in reconciling some of these what we
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know as come to accept, come to accept as facts or truth that we
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grow up learning. Okay, Like, for example, we we've learned that
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God is God is good. You know, if there is a God,
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this being called God has to be good, right, it can't be evil.
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It can't be God and not good. So we know that we serve
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as a very good God. Uh. And we know also from the Bible
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that God is love. He's all loving God. Everything he does he does
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out of love. So if these two things are true, if God is
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good and God is loved, then I think the struggle is why is there
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so much evil and pain and suffering in the world? Because that is also
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true. Right, we turn on the news, we see suffering, we
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see wars, we read about even innocent babies, you know, maybe stricken
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with disease or killed. At times, we read about rape, and we
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read about robbery and all this injustice in the world. Is it possible that
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we have this God? And not only is God good and love, he's
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also supposed to be all powerful, which means he is in total and full
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control, which means he can stop the evil that is happening. But he
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seems to be doing nothing about it. Right, So therefore, many scholars
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or throughout the ages, people call this a problem. This is a problem,
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and we want to deal with that today. I would like to present
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at least three foundational things before we move on, uh, and then we'll
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see where we go after that, maybe two three three plus three three three
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plus two three foundational things and two responses to it, and then we'll see
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where we go from there. Okay, okay, okay. So number one
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that means, how what kind of method? How do we apply our thinking
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to this problem? So we're gonna we're gonna try and solve this problem today,
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right, the problem of evil? If God is good, why is
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that evil? If God is loving? Why is that evil? If youve
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got's all powerful why did you stop it? Right? How do we solve
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this? And we must come from a particular presupposition of particular angle, right,
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so as to suggest and propose three methods or three angles to your number
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one is because the Bible is truth. I hope we can accept that that
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that there are no problem passages in the Bible. That there's no passages in
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the Bible, no scripture, no verses in the Bible that is problematic,
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that is lacking, that is insufficient. Every passage in the Bible is truth
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and sufficient, is it okay? So when we have a problem, in
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other words, when we when there is a problem, the problem is not
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with the world of God. So that means yes, the Bible talks about
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violence, particularly the Old Testament, lots and lots of violence. You know,
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something is so bizarre you wonder whether it's true or not. All right,
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Okay, that's one favorite one where I think it was Elishah and a
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bunch of young boys called him bald, and he got so angry or something.
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He sort of commanded the best to come out of the wall, and
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the back kind of devoured the boys. Yeah, so it's pretty violent.
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So wow, if there's such passage in the Bible. You know, it's
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the Bible the problem. We're trying to establish that there is no problem with
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the Bible. If there is a problem, the problem is either our comprehension.
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That means, uh, I don't quite understand why this is in the
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Bible. I don't quite understand why this is out in the Bible. I
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don't quite understand why this is written that way. That is the problem our
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understanding or our submission to it is the problem of our comprehension and our submission.
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Okay. Now, just because we don't understand something doesn't make it untrue.
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Yes, And just because we cannot agree with something also doesn't make it
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doesn't make it untrue. You may not agree that I'm handsome. Doesn't change
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the fact that I'm handsome, thank you. And you may find it very
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hard to understand. No, so well, that escalated really quick. Ah,
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Yes, but it doesn't change the fact. Agree or you don't agree,
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except you okay, all right. Crue first contents to sixteen says,
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for who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?
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But we have the mind of Christ. So with Christ, holy speak can
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help us understand but you know, on our own, our finite mind just
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cannot contain it in finding God. That's that's the basic of it. Okay.
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Secondly, as we try to solve this problem, what angle, what
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foundation are we standing on? Number two? That there is a there,
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there's a need to recognize that there is a distinction. God is the creator.
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We are creatures. God is the potter. We are the clay.
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We are we are lumps of clay. That the potter has every right to
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shape us into any shape he wants. Amen, you want to shape us
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into a bowl of vast whatever. So there is this distinction. Right,
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we cannot claim to be God, we cannot claim to take his place.
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So we must acknowledge this distinction as we try to understand or try to solve
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this problem of evil, or in fact any other problem. Uh Daniel four
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of us thirty five. All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
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And he does according to his will among the holes of heaven and among
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the inheritance of the earth, and none none can stay his hand or say
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to him, what have you done. He's the He's God. We are
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not. He's the creator, Creator, we are his creation. Porter clay,
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there is such a distinction. Amen, just want to add on to
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this. What's fascinating about this passage is that this passage was actually written by
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Nabukan as a Ah. This is this is not written by any regular Jewish
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person. This was written by King nabook and as a who's supposed to be
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the king that destroyed God's temple. And by the time God was dealt with
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him, he concludes that, yeah, you know what, God can do
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whatever he wants. He can take me and put me on the throne,
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he can throw me down, he can make me into an animal, which
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God pretty much did and and ultimately God has the freedom as the creator.
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And a lot of times we use words like human rights in reference to God,
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as if these rights come from our own autonomy. That's not true.
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We don't have these rights inherent, whatever remote rights. We have our rights
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that He has given to us. So apart from him, we really have
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no rights to say I want equality. Shouldn't work with God that way,
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that's right, or even when we exclaim it isn't it isn't fair. It's
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not fair, as if fairness is determined by our own measurement, what is
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fair? What is not okay. Thirdly, in our quest to solve this
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problem, the foundation we stand on is that it is essential to use the
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Bible. You use the Bible to define our terminology, meaning what is evil?
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What is good? Right? I think you wrote in your paper.
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I remember you asked the question, is a blunt knife good? That's right,
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it's a blunt knife good a bad. Let's take a few seconds to
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kind of like process there. It's a blunt knife good, a bad.
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Now, if you use the blunt knife to cut meat in your kitchen,
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Joshua, it's a bad knife because a blunt knife can't cut two me.
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But if you use a blat knife to say, I don't know what would
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you use a blat knife for? It was for decoration, then decoration might
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be good because you don't want your children to touch it or accidentally, you
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know, cause it to fall on and cut the Then you you know,
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to cut your toes, so you will wish it wasn't a sharp knife.
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So it's a black knife good or bad? It depends, right, So
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when it comes to terms like good, evil, love, justice, Just
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to pick up on that the black knife, you said, what thing you're
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really interesting? You said, is that it depends whether the blunt knife is
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good or not. The question is what does it depend on? Depend on
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what? Yeah? Or who? Yeah? And the question is the creator.
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The creator has a purpose, a intention for creating that knife, and
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if the knife can live up to the purpose, it's a good knife.
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The knife it's purpose, it's a bad knife. Even if knife cry,
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wait, I never heard anyone, I've never harmed anyone. Why am I
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bad? Well, you're meant to cut. So the creator determines our purpose.
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Yes, and we either live up to that purpose, by which we
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are judged as good, or we fail that purpose on the basis of which
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we are rightly called bad. But either way, the created thing does not
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get to define its own purpose from its own perspective. That would be rather
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wrong. Yes, so there will be the three foundations we stand on right
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that there are no problem position in the Bible. If there's a problem,
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it's with an understanding or our submission to what God is saying. That means
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the Bible may say something that we don't like, but it doesn't matter what
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we like, it matter what God said. Secondly, is we need to
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recognize and accept that there is a distinction between the creator and its creation his
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creation right went on on the same level, and thirdly that when we when
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we seek to define these terms good, evil, love, justice, is
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fair. All this must be done based depends on the Bible. The Bible
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defines these terms, and then we submit to it or we don't. All
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right, quick quote next light, Uh, Jared Brock uh said this left
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to our own devices, we will make God in our own image. Uh.
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That could be very well, what's happening in our world today because we
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seem to be taking back the definitions that we define what love is, we
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define what justice, if we define gender, we define what's right, what's
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wrong, what's fair. So it's it's a very dangerous place to be,
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all right, So let's move on. We're just setting this up. So
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let's revisit the objection or the problem. Okay, Basically, anyone who has
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a struggle is basically saying this, right. God is all powerful. He's
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in control. He can stop whatever he wants to stop, start whatever we're
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gonna start, do whatever he wants. He's all powerful. God is also
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all loving and all goods. That's all he is. That's who he is.
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God is love and God is good, so we also know that for
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a fact, evil and suffering do exist. We see it everywhere. Hence
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lie the problem, how can this all be true at all? At the
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same time, you know, based on our logy, something must go.
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And since even since I can't see God but I can see evil, the
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atheists will say God must not exist. Yeah, it's it's either point one
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or point two. Therefrom ust go because we feel evil and we experience evil.
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Yes. Now, what's fascinating is that this question was actually developed,
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not lately, but actually developed even before Jesus. The Greek philosopher Epicurus was
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the one that formulated this question. If God is good and all powerful,
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why is that evil? Maybe God is good enough that he genuinely wants to
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eradicate the world of evil, but it's just not powerful enough, in which
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case it's not all powerful. Or maybe he has the power, then he's
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not good enough because then he has the power to get rid of evil,
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but evil is still here. So which is it? It's a question that
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actually goes even before Jesus was born. Wonderful. Okay, let's see,
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so I like to quickly not offer two quick explanations and then as we deal
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with the questions, I think we'll go deep poin into is that good?
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Is that good place to start? So before set mentions it, I'll mention
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it myself. I wrote a paper uh uh dealing with this next part because
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I I I told you last week that I myself struggle with this issue because
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there has been suffering in our lives, in our personal lives, and UH
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just can't reconcile. How can a good God uh do such things? Uh?
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And so my my people is on one of these explanations uh and and
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explore that. So if you are interested, I'll share that later. But
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there's two possible explanations that a Christian or a person who believes in God a
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theist can offer uh to this question of evil, right uh, and it
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can be under can be summarized this way. One is the free will defense,
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meaning the reason that is evil in the world is because there is free
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will that God has given human beings free will starting from ed and if and
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basically humans messed up. We abused our free will and instead of doing good
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with it, we decided to do some, decided to take the fruit,
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decided to obey, disobey God, and because we exercise our free will to
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do bad as a punishment. As a consequence, evil came it to a
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work in We in woke evil. We cost evil because of our scein evil
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happens. So, in other words, self inflicted, self inflicted. So
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if something bad happens in your life, and this is your understanding, you
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probably explained this way, like, okay, I met an accident, I
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must have done something wrong. Or remember the blind men blind born blind from
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birth? The disciples asked Jesus, Jesus, this man was one blind who
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sinned? Was did he sin? Or did his parents sinned? No,
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he's born blind, so he's never watched porn ever you got I'm saying,
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right, are you uncomfortable? I mean, he's born blind, he's never
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he's never seen anything. So these are perplex like who sinned this guy?
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Or maybe he's a curse it's for the four generation cursed or something right,
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And then Jesus answered very interestingly, he said, neither the men sin nor
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his parents. Now our don't beliegious actually meant they are perfect and there's no
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sin in them. He's just giving another explanation for this particular case. This
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particular case direct result of this. Yes, he said, this happened so
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that the works of God can be reviewed, which is now points to the
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uh kind of clue in into the next explanation. Okay, so if you
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believe in God, if you don't accept the free will explanation, Oh,
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evil even is caused by our own wrongdoing. We caused it, We invoked
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it. We invited evil into our lives, into the world as our fault.
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We are responsible, we are culpable. All you may say, another
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person may say, well, it's it's because of the greater good. That
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means in summary, God is sovereign, He's the creator with the creature.
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We said it earlier. We can't begin to fully understand God's mind and why
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he does certain things. And so it is possible that God allowed certain bad
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for very good reasons that we don't understand yet. Yeah. For example,
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someone might see death as a very ultimate evil. Oh no, that person
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was praying for healing, and God has all the power to heal this person.
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But instead healing this person, he altos the person to die. Anyway.
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Oh, that's the ultimate evil. How can he removed this person from
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us? But when we stop to consider this explanation, and it could be
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that death is the ultimate healing, that this person who is now crossover to
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eternity, he'll never forestick again, he'll never suffer again. There's no pain
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for example, right, So death could be a form of healing that God
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chooses. But we may not understand aye so painful to separate so far again,
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so we may offer one of these explanations and we can go deeper into
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it. I'm pretty sure we will have to touch on it as we answer
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certain questions. Let me distinguisher between these two to just to help put it
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so if you go to the next slide, what is different between the free
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will defense? Now, just to keep in mind, a defense is something
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that you use to show that the three statements you saw earlier, if God
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is all good, if God is all powerful, why is there so much
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evil in the world. A defense is what you use essentially to kind of
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just destroy that objection. You're not trying to answer the question, You're trying
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to explain why the objection doesn't work. So, for example, if you
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could simply say God has good reasons for permitting evil in the world. Now,
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as long as that's logically possible, that itself will diffuse the entire objection
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that God and evil are somehow incompatible with one another. Now we realize that
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God may have good reasons for allowing evil to happen. But then when you
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dig deeper, here's where these two views differ. On a free will defense,
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like Pastor Andy said, they ultimately are blaming human beings. That's saying
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that human beings messed up. God gave us free will, and ultimately we
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chose to we chose to abuse the free will. On the other hand,
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so just to put this, I want to distinguish between these two terms.
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Say you've got human culpability. Culpability means blame worthiness, right, So on
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the other hand, you've got human responsibility, which means who is the ultimate
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pass right. So if you take the free will view, what you're essentially
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saying is human beings are blameworthy and ultimately human beings are also the cause.
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So in that sense, it's the self inflicted view, self inflicted pain view.
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Now what's different about the greater good one is that the greater good defense
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also affirms human culpability, which means both these views never blame God for suffering
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in the world. But the difference is this the greater Good defense holds God
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responsible for evil. What it means is that ultimately evil in the world is
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something that God chose to bring upon. It was God's choice, it was
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God's intent. Now God is not to be blamed because he's all powerful,
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but ultimately the greater Good says God chows it to happen in this way so
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that for some greater good that He has chosen. Now that's why that view
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becomes very emotionally past the endy people struggle with that emotionally, but just wanted
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to flash this out so that we kind of wrestle, I mean, we
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kind of dealing with this wrestle with these two different views. All right,
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Uh, there must be good in order to recognize or experience bad or evil.
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I guess it also works their way around for a proposalities question, right,
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So you can't have one without the other kind of thing. Right to
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know, relief is to no pain. Okay. So the question is that
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if that's true, is God allowing it because it's free human free will or
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and it's human free will and therefore he will come and judge us in the
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end times. So basically it's tart to ask, is it because of free
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will? And will we be judged at the ends In the end, I
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love to take this because, first of all, I want to say I
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strongly disagree with at least the original assumption of the question that if there is
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good, there must be evil. Well, they say that that's pretty much
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Taoism. It's dualism that you know, you have the young, you must
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have the young, you know, it's it's it's that sort of thing.
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Now, we deny dualism, the idea that you know that these two are
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equal opposites, that they because you see, if that's what it is,
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then if good exists for eternity, which we believe because God is good,
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evil too must exist for eternity because they can with evil. But I think
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that's not true because I think you can say that God is good without reference
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to evil. And so the big question then comes to how do you even
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make that judgment? Well, I think there are two ways to explain this.
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Number One, we must realize that when we talk about good, we're
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talking about a spectrum. What do I mean? There is something called the
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ultimate one hundred percent good, which it's in In other words, good you
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cannot improve upon right, think of the ultimate maximum good. That's God.
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Right, you cannot get gooder than God is. See what I did there
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so well, in that sense to be evil, to be evil is not
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Yeah, that's right. Remember that to be evil is not to be zero
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percent good. There is no such thing as zero percent good. To be
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evil would be to be ninety nine percent good. That's a small evil,
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ten percent good, very big evil. But ultimately you cannot have zero percent
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evil because ultimately, all evil is a you know, it's all evil ultimately
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is a privation of the good or a falling shot of the glory of God.
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That's what it is. So someone says Adolf Hitler was the most evil
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person to ever exist. You cannot get more evil than that. I beg
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to differ. I think Hitler could have kicked his dog one more time,
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right, he could have done worse. Right, there's something that Hitler could
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have done to make himself even worse. He was not as evil as he
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possibly could be, and that goes down to God's restraining grace. So all
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that to say, number one, think of evil like a privation. Think
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of it like a tear in a shirt or a rust on car, and
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an old car. What happens if you take away to from the car good
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car? What happens if you take the car from the rust, but you
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have an empty parking lot? Is what you have? Right? If you
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take the tear away from the shirt, you repair the tear, you have
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a good shirt. What happens if you take the shirt away from the tear,
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you have an empty hanger? Just a hanger there, Right, that's
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all you have. Because the point is the evil cannot exist without a good,
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but the good can exist without the evil. That that's how we respond
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to it. There's a question that was asked the first week that's being brought
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back this week, and we say that this would be appropriate week to answer
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that for about it, and it's it's it's again, it's I think it's
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more emotional than than than intellectual, maybe because I think people go to this
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right, But the questions read this way. How can we accept that that
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they are good, loving people, very kind people in our lives and you
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know they will you mentioned hell just now and or not not going to heaven.
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How can we accept that good loving, kind people, just because they're
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not Christian they will end up in hell? How can we accept that.
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How do you deal with that one of the most terrifying Did I ever say
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this the last time I was here? One of the most terrifying doctrines in
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all of Scripture? Did I say this? I don't think so? The
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most I did, right, what is the most terrifying doctrine in all of
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Scripture? God is good. That's the most terrifying doctrine in all because we're
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not good, And because we're not good, the greatest enemy of a wicked
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person is a good and just God. Because God is love, Hell is
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there. Because God is holy, Hell is there. You have a God
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who is corrupt and unjust, you will not have help. You would have
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a God that condones all the evil in the world and just takes it as
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it is. But because the God we serve is holy, hell must exist.
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It is a necessity with a God who is holy. But here's where
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the Bible says, mercy triumphs over judgment because He's not only just and holy
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love. He sent his son to take on a place that we deserve to
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take. The Son of God drank the same cup that you and I ought
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to have drank. Imagine Jesus sweating drops of blood at the very thought,
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not the suffering, but the thought of being separated from the Father in judgment
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for a short time, for a few hours. He was going to be
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separated from the Father in judgment in his human nature, and that very thought
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causes him to sweat drops of blood. Friends, they're going to be people
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who spend eternity separated from God. I mean, if they knew what was
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facing them, they would be sweating way more than just blood drops of blood.
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So my point is this, because God is loved, because God is
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good. Hell is that necessity? And if you look at a cross of
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Jesus Christ and all you see is the Father's love with mister point, the
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cross stands as a symbol of a just and holy God. If that's what
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he will do to his son, of whom he said, you are my
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son, whom I loved in you are well pleased if that's what he would
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do to his son, so much so did the sun Christ, my God,
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my God, why have you forsaken me? If that's what would do
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to the Sun, what would he do to sinful, rebellious sinners that refused
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to turn to his grace and continue to reject his mercy? I do not
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want to even contemplate that possibility if I can just stretch it and add on
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to that, and I just want to bring it down to a human level,
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right, for example, Like, here's the question do we do we
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do? We all want love? Right? Love is a good thing?
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Yes, love is a wonderful things. A song I don't know, Okay,
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I'm sure there's many songs like that. Love love, Love is a
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good thing, right, uh? And one love? We all it's all
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about love these days. And uh, I think next we're going to talk
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about progressive Christianity. And one of the one of the ethoughts of progressive Christianity
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is just love. Love wins as long as it's love wonderful. But here's
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the question, right, do we really want love without morality? Because we
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love is being redefined in our world? Right, if it feels good?
26:07
Why are you stopping me? I'm not harming anybody, you know. Yeah,
26:11
he's just he's another guy. I'm a guy. And but there's love
26:14
and can't be wrong. Why are you judging me? Do you really want?
26:18
Do we really want love without morality or without justice or without truth?
26:26
So just take a moment to imagine this imagine everybody everybody mentioned this. Okay,
26:30
imagine your parents not keeping a promise. I will be there because I
26:41
love you, and then they're not there. They break their promise. Feel
26:48
that pain. Imagine a loved one husband, I love you, darling,
26:53
I will never have another. You're the only one for me love, but
26:59
then break step promise becomes unfaithful, cheats on you. Can you feel that
27:06
pain? Now, record that pain in your heart, because that's the pain
27:11
of love. Without morality, it's easy to love, love, love,
27:18
love, But when it happens here, oh, a love one not keeping
27:22
the promise, for example, breaks their promise, cheats. That's love,
27:27
but without morality, we can't have that. It has to be he has
27:32
to hand in hand morality. Justice sustains love. It is what makes love
27:37
love. Otherwise love is not love. And so I know it's painful,
27:44
but we can't have one without the other. And with God both of those
27:48
are equally yes, all right, So I hope that answers the question we
27:53
brought it back from week number one. Okay, this is an interesting one
28:00
here. He's beady, I don't know's the only person with the initial not
28:02
who bed is brother than okay or brandy. Why why doesn't God punished evil
28:11
today like he did in the Old Testament, Like you know, Israelites punished
28:15
in the mostest time city turned to stone or sand. God floods the world.
28:19
Why doesn't God do that kind of stuff today? You mean he's not
28:22
flooding the world again. No, you're right, there's a difference in the
28:26
Old Testament. The Old Testament, he flooded the world with water. Have
28:32
you read the Book of Revelation. He's flooding the world with the lake of
28:34
fire. I'm not sure if you have a preference which one you want to
28:37
go for, But frankly, I'll choose water any day, right, I
28:41
love to see so. But on a serious note, the God of the
28:47
Old Testament. If you're wondering why you don't see that expression in today,
28:52
the slaughter of so many people that were described as the enemies of God in
28:56
the Old Testament, think of the In the Old Testament, it says if
29:00
you commit adultery, stone the person. Put a person there and stone them
29:06
to death. That's brutal punishment. If you a person commits murder, stone
29:11
the person. That we can understand if a person is you know practice as
29:14
sexually morality, stone the person. That's the tone of the Old Testament,
29:18
Stone brutal punished, that's the tone. And then New Testament we are preaching
29:22
grace all the time. And so some people see a disconnect. And here's
29:26
how you resolve that. You go to the server of the Mount where Jesus
29:30
addresses the issues that merit capital punishment in the Old Testament, issues like adultery.
29:37
What does Jesus say adultery is in Matthew chapter six, five to six.
29:41
What does he say adultery is chapter five? Actually, if you you
29:48
look at someone with lustful intent, you've already committed adultery. Now, I'm
29:51
not going to answer show of hands, but I'll be surprised if there's one
29:53
person here who can say I've never looked at someone lustfully my entire life,
29:57
I'll be surprised. Right. But here's the thing. According to Jesus's standard,
30:03
what does that make all of us adulterous? Has anyone here tolder not
30:11
toler lie before? If you say yes, that that that means you've already
30:15
proven my point. Right? If there's if all of us have lied,
30:21
what does that make us lying adulterous? Right? Have you taken anything?
30:26
Have I taken anything that doesn't belong to me before, whether it's pirate or
30:29
DVD or anything like that, or were Malaysians? Sure? What does that
30:34
makers lying adulterous thieves? Right? And I can go on down that list.
30:38
Jesus says, if you hate someone, you've committed murder. That makes
30:41
us murderous, lying adulters. You get the point. It's pretty bad.
30:45
And that means all of us, according to Jesus's standards, deserve capital punishment
30:52
and the beauty of the Gospel. And you say, why doesn't God do
30:53
that to us today? Yeah, the second person on the Trinity went down.
30:56
He took the punishment on himself. And because of that, the same
31:00
God that prescribed judgment and brutality in the Old Testament now reaches out his hands
31:06
and say, I'm giving you mercy. Someone took your place for you in
31:07
that stony. That person is Jesus Christ. Praise be to God. Amen.
31:12
Amen. With with that. With that, I'll lead to this question.
31:17
Someone asks, I'm glad this question was asked. How can learning about
31:21
the problem or evil help me in my Christian life? And I think,
31:26
what you just said just a basic appreciation for the gospel. All I would
31:33
say, brother, you need to suffer like the rest of us. Do
31:37
you understand that? But anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
31:40
yeah. Maybe maybe maybe you think artist is too technical and what is all
31:42
these things? And I just live my life. It's fine. What do
31:47
we need to learn this? You know, listen something else? No,
31:48
I think it's pretty important. I think maybe you've had a pretty good life
31:52
or is while maybe you're three year old. I don't know who's asking this
31:56
question, but if you live long enough, you know you you will face
32:01
this question. Even if you don't know you're facing the question. Maybe you
32:04
really put putting these words. But you know, if you ever asked why
32:07
me, you're like, Oh, last Monday, I played foot salt and
32:14
the one time I forget my socks long. Usually you have long socks,
32:17
right, Uh. I always have one spad sox in my car, but
32:22
it's not a football sox. Now I do. So I've got one football
32:25
socks now at the back of my car, and I got one normal socks
32:28
in the front glove compartment so that I'm always prepared. So I didn't have
32:32
my football socks and I only got my shot one and I wore that and
32:37
of all days, I'm running at full speed trying to get the ball,
32:39
and this defender he was wearing Arsenal Arsenal shirt. It's not me, It
32:45
was not me, all these Arsenal people. I was running at full speed
32:50
and because he can't catch up with me, he just kind of just push
32:53
push me. While I'm running a full speed. I flew and I landed
32:57
on the ground. I just scratched my entire like so it's like you see
33:01
my Instagram or if you ah knows, Yeah, the table blocked me from
33:08
saying, but I'm pressure it was bad. Yeah, And I kind of
33:12
forget the point of why story story, you suffered, suffered? Have you
33:16
suffered? This is my point? I mean, I remember my point.
33:20
O bring my point up again. But you know, things happen. Things
33:22
happened, and and and I don't know if to answer this question, how
33:27
does it help me in my Christian life? A genuine appreciation for the Gospel
33:32
to understand that, wow, there's just a lot of bad happening in the
33:36
world, but God is good. And because He is good, I can
33:39
trust this guy. I I he's got my back and no matter what,
33:45
like like Joe, I mean like job experience, I think a lot worse
33:51
than we experienced. And yet he refused to curse God. He questioned God,
33:58
he had debates we got. Of course, he lost every one of
34:00
those debates because he couldn't answer God because God pretty much said, I'm creator,
34:07
you creature. You don't know what's going on, so just leave it
34:12
to me, right, And so I think it gives perspective to our faith.
34:17
Now. It may not always bring comfort and relief to the pain.
34:22
It's not a panet all, it's not parisittamol, it's not whatever brand you
34:25
for them all, but at least it gives you perspective. I wouldn't even
34:31
say it gives you understanding. Ah yeah, yeah, yeah. God is
34:35
good. So now I understand why he's pain. You may not understand,
34:37
but you have perspective that okay, God is He has good reasons for allowing
34:44
this. And like we unpacked the box today, that way unpacking, and
34:47
there's a gift inside. And maybe there's a lot of layers that we need
34:52
to buel through as we study the word of God. But if we patiently
34:54
puil up those layers, we will find the gift that God has prepared for
34:59
us. And according to Paul, the gift is Christ himself. The gift
35:04
is not just a big paycheck. Oh, it says why God is doing
35:07
this to me so that I can none of those material things any day?
35:12
Policy is you know, I put I can't remember that. The upward calling
35:17
is basically saying, the price is Christ himself. That maytain Christ. And
35:23
I think it's pretty important why we have to learn this, And of course
35:25
this also helps with our evangelism because your friends may be asking or maybe challenging,
35:31
if your God is so good, why is this all is happening?
35:35
He might he must not exist, uh. And you know, learning this
35:38
will give us a way of at least defending, if not explaining. Now
35:43
I was not I was. We were Actually you know the story because we
35:46
discussed us in our sessions as well, that there was a former pastor by
35:52
the name of Pepper Live some of you may know him, uh, that
35:54
actually lost his faith because of suffering that he saw, and today's came one
36:00
of the leading atheist figures in Malaysia. So I'm a pastor and of course
36:04
we had a privilege of I had a privilege of engaging with him in a
36:07
debate in Penang in city like church in Penang and just dealing with the Christian
36:13
is the Christian God evil? He's hurting. At the end of the debate,
36:15
he was in tears because it's it's something that that's I mean, it
36:19
causes people to lose your faith, and yeah, I just want to say
36:22
that it's something that can help. It can cause us to even start to
36:25
question the goodness of God. Okay, let's deal with this one because I
36:30
think a lot of the questions kind of like if you were listening in some
36:32
parts of the answer is there? But does God this one? Does God
36:37
put challenges meaning suffering or evil, evil experiences? Does God put challenges in
36:45
our life to test us? Is that a test? Is all? It's
36:49
the terrific gem I go through. There's a challenge from God or you know,
36:52
uh, difficult anti art, that's a challenge from God to test me,
36:57
to test me. So it's a test I must pass somehow. There
37:00
is a right response in a wrong response or like oh I lost my job,
37:05
I is a test from God. What would you say today? I
37:07
mean, the Bible clearly says that God tests us, but he does not
37:10
tempt us himself, although the Bible does say he can lead us into temptation.
37:15
Right, So Lord's prayer says lead us not into temptation, which means
37:21
that God doesn't tempt us, but he can cause us to be tempted,
37:25
a good example being Jesus Christ who led Jesus to the wilderness to be tempted
37:30
Holy Spirit. Right, so God can leader us into temptation. But testing,
37:35
I think Genesis twenty two we see that Abraham was tested, and I
37:37
think God tests us to prove our faith, not to him. He already
37:42
knows the level of our faith. Faith is a gift of God. Ephicients
37:45
too was eight to ten. But I think the testing is for us to
37:49
be firmly rooted in Him, that when we see the faith manifested amidst trials,
37:54
it brings about a faith that is ultimately pleasing to God. And I
37:58
want to cite for you Romans five, who was three to five. If
38:01
any chance we could have that on the screen, that would be fantastic.
38:05
Romans chapter five was three to five says something so powerful, for we rejoice
38:10
in suffering. Did Paul just say we rejoice in suffering. Yes, he
38:15
did, for we rejoice in suffering for suffering producers character and character producers perseverance
38:24
and produce perseverance producers. Hope letes it not say that. And we know
38:30
that in all this the love of God is manifested in our hearts. So
38:32
Paul says, if we truly understand this, we would rejoice in suffering itself,
38:37
not in a satistic way. I don't think Paul was going hahas he
38:42
suffered. I don't think that's what's happening. I think what he's doing is
38:45
he's rejoicing at the fruits of what suffering brings. And so likewise God does
38:51
testers. But the testing is to grow us so that we have more patience.
38:54
And so the point of all this is that if you ever pray to
38:59
God, God give me more patience, you know what to expect. Yes,
39:04
a younger brother, Okay, there's a big one. I'm trying to
39:08
reselve for later. Let me see. Uh, okay, cool, you're
39:15
remember to vote if you really want to push a question up. Okay,
39:20
that will help us. Okay. Yeah. When my feelings and the Bible
39:27
come into conflict, I struggle to accept it. What can be done?
39:30
Wow? Uh, that's okay, okay, So so yeah, yeah,
39:42
I know, but I'm trying to be kind and and and and trying to
39:45
be pastoral. And that's the difference between a pastor and apologies. I can
39:50
just tell it as it is because I'm not After this month, you probably
39:52
won't be I don't know where again. But the pastor has to see you
39:54
every week, So sorry, please go ahead. Okay. So when your
40:02
feelings are in complete with the Bible meaning, I'm guessing you're involved in something
40:07
that the Bible clearly is prohibiting or has a different way of explaining, right
40:14
and so, and then you feel in conflict. You feel like ah,
40:19
if the Bible had not said that, or like what you mean, that's
40:22
it. That's the reason why I can't accept that? Is that the reason
40:25
why I lost this person? What can be done? So let's make this
40:31
practical. I think, first of all, I think I shared in disesearch
40:36
before that Christianity is not a Christianity that is not a religion or a faith
40:40
that rejects or prohibits questioning. I think it's I think it's healthy that you
40:49
question. It's healthy that you're like, is it really what the Bible says?
40:52
Do I really have to accept this? I think God is not.
40:55
God is not nervous about your question. He's not like look at Joe.
41:00
You can give God a million questions and he'll be like and God would probably
41:04
answer with another question. Likely, so that seemed to be his style.
41:09
But it's okay to question. I think. I think I want to address
41:12
that first and foremost because I feel like, or I observe that many Christians
41:15
in many churches and make the feel like if you question, you are unfaithful.
41:19
If you question, then you are you have doubt, and therefore you're
41:21
not even Christian. With the disciples, when they saw Jesus with their own
41:25
eyes touch his hand before he put their finger through the hole in his palm,
41:30
the Bible says they worship him, but some doubted. So among these
41:32
apostles who received the great commission directly from from the Commissioner himself, even they
41:37
doubted. And I and we've learned from the first week like every word in
41:42
the Bible is there for a reason, for a purpose, And I think
41:45
that's little three words. But some doubted. Is therefore people like me for
41:50
people like some of you who ask this question, like, Okay, I'm
41:52
worshiping Jesus here right now, but I've got a few questions God. I
41:55
think that's okay. I think first of all, ask those questions. But
42:00
of course directions, questions have directions. We learn words have direction, right,
42:07
which either your words are moving in the direction of life or your words
42:12
are moving direction of death. Right. What your words cannot do is that
42:15
your work is not moving U. There is no neutrality. You're either going
42:20
with this way or this way. I think questions are the same thing because
42:22
questions are formed by words. So it's a question in the direction of I
42:27
want to know God more, I want to honor Him. That it leads
42:30
me towards worship of Him, then those questions will lead to a good place.
42:36
If your question is that I just want to get away from God,
42:38
this is my okay. Finally I found the reason not to come to church
42:42
anymore or not to prey then dangerous place. So what can be done?
42:46
Ask us questions. That's why this church we end with a dialogue, because
42:52
it's a good like, it's a safe pace to ask those questions. Secondly,
42:57
you're not alone, and that's why it's practical. It's very practical to
43:01
deal with those questions and struggle with somebody, preferably somebody more motual in the
43:07
faith. So like I wouldn't be struggling this and asking my son. My
43:12
son asked me questions and I work through with him. But okay, if
43:16
to say that, so, sometimes children can teach you a lot about God
43:20
that adults cannot. Right, my son has taught me a few things about
43:22
God that I'm like, oh wow, Like he asked me a simple question.
43:27
First, Daddy jonahs a prophet, right yeah, and prophet speak on
43:30
behalf of God, right yeah? So why is he running away? Simple?
43:36
Pop? One minute? Someone I repented. I'm like, yes,
43:39
God, okay, Lord, God, thank you Jesus. I will listen
43:42
to you. My six year old son, he asked me this when he
43:46
was six. So yeah, deal with it with somebody because it's healthy.
43:51
Uh. If it's just you and your Internet and your Google. Uh,
43:54
and you know you're endless watching of YouTube and there's no real person. I'm
43:59
not saying you have to talk to me as a pastor. I'm not saying
44:01
if you go and talk to Semination, who is an apologies intellectual PhD and
44:06
a PhDd. Okay, you don't have permanent hey damage yet. Okay,
44:07
uh, okay, but what with other Christians? So I'm more mature deal
44:16
with that. Don't ignore the question. Don't know how to struggle. But
44:22
I am hoping if you're asking what can I do, I'm hoping that that
44:25
will lead to this hunger, this desire to know to know the Word of
44:30
God. Because we said earlier we can't really deal with all this away apart
44:35
from the world of God. So if you're searching on YouTube for some motivational
44:38
Christian speaker to help relieve your pain, you probably have relief for that moment.
44:45
But ultimately, if you want truth, you've got to go back to
44:46
the Word of God, as uncomfortable as it may be. Is that all
44:51
right? I hope that's practical and that's something you can work with. Cool
44:54
you're wanna add to that or something? No, But I mean, since
44:59
you since you walked right through the Great Commission, sure I'll say that this
45:02
one is the unfiltered answer. Okay, So well, if you ever happen
45:08
to know what God now, this is different. If you're struggling with it,
45:10
Okay, I'm not talking about those who are struggling. I'm talking about.
45:14
If you know this is what God says and I just have a difference
45:16
of opinion, then I'm wrong. It's as simple as that, rights,
45:22
That's well, that's that's what it is. Now the great commission, pastor,
45:25
and he mentioned a great commission. So I'll just briefly state this and
45:28
we'll move to the next question. Matthew twenty eight was eighteen nineteen and twenty.
45:34
Deal with a Great Commission Matthew Chapter twenty eight was eighteen nineteen and twenty.
45:39
It says, all authority under heaven and earth has been given to me.
45:43
Therefore go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
45:47
the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them
45:51
to do all that I've commanded you. And it says, behold, I'm
45:53
with you always, even to the end of the age. But notice he
45:57
says that teaching them to do all that I've commanded you, So true Christianity,
46:00
true discipleship involves guiding a person to and granted there will be pushbacks,
46:07
there will be struggles, but ultimately the goal is to obey all the Christ
46:10
has said. Or so you've got eight minutes, let's do with some big
46:15
ones and see how So I'm trying to summarize some of these questions because they
46:19
around the same thing. So basically, it's about predestination, it's about free
46:22
will, okay, so so so so uh so I'm just going to quickly
46:28
uh run through these questions because they're about the same thing. So basically,
46:31
if there is no free will, I think I think someone maybe heard what
46:36
I said as I'm saying there is no free will. Uh So, if
46:39
there's no such thing as that, why are we didn't judge by our actions?
46:43
How can we be held accountable for our actions? All my actions are
46:45
actually due to God supremunity, the meaning suggesting that, oh I did it's
46:49
because God made me do it. So if that's if that's true, then
46:53
why am I being judged for something I'm totally okay? So that so,
47:00
of course that will lead to the whole predestination question. Like so since I
47:05
have no control whatsoever. God is control of everything, even my choices,
47:09
then who can get safe? How do I know what I we say?
47:13
And if it doesn't matter? So we're dealing with this, so do maybe
47:15
once yes, yes, should be while we're at it, just throwing a
47:20
third one. This is a package, you know, Just yes and deal
47:22
with the question of unfairness. And if there's no free will, it's unfair,
47:27
right, So let's just deal with all three while we're at it.
47:29
If please turn, you need your bibles open for this one. Let's go
47:30
to Roman chapter nine, and I wish I had time to take you through
47:37
this Roman chapter seven onwards, but due to time, let me just deal
47:39
with Romans chapter nine, which by the way, addresses word for word the
47:45
question that was raised just now. So let's go to Romans chapter nine,
47:47
and I want to start by looking at Worse ten and I'll tell you where
47:54
this is. Romans chapter nine, Worse ten onwards. It's deals with the
47:58
story of two sons born at the exact same time from one father, Isaac.
48:04
These are twins, Jacob and Esau. And let's see what the script
48:07
is and it will come to that question. Paul is going to raise that
48:10
same question. If God predested everything and I have no free will, why
48:15
am I being judged? It's unfair? So let's read it and we'll go
48:19
worse by worse here real quick. Romans chapter nine, verse ten. And
48:22
not only so, but when Rebecca had conceived children by one man of fore
48:30
father Isaac. Pay attention to this verse eleven, though they were not yet
48:34
born, and nothing either good or bad. In order that God's purpose of
48:39
election by continue not because of works, but because of Him who calls.
48:46
She was told the older will serve the younger guys. Ready for verse thirteen,
48:52
as it is written, Jacob, I love Esau, I hated.
48:57
Who is the idea God? Verse fourteen? What shall we say? Then?
49:04
Is there injustice on God's part? By no means? Why not?
49:09
He says Ver's fifteen. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy
49:15
on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I
49:17
will have compassion. That's what we talked about earlier. The Potter's freedom verse
49:22
sixteen. Now verse sixteen is going to be talking about the free will.
49:27
Verse sixteen says, So then it depends not on human will or exertion,
49:32
but on God, who has mercy verse seventeen. For the Scripture says to
49:37
Pharaoh for this very purpose, I have raised you up that I might show
49:40
my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the
49:44
earth verse eighteen. So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and
49:49
he hardens whomever he wills. Now comes to your question again, what about
49:54
ten that case, then why are you judging me? You ordered everything?
49:58
I have no will? That's EXAs exactly what Paul says verse nineteen. You
50:01
will say to me that why does he still find fault? For who can
50:06
resist his will? Paul here gives us four questions which are meant to answer
50:10
this question Number one Verse twenty But who are you or man to answer back
50:15
to God? Okay, that's a hard one. Question Number two, what
50:20
will you will? What molded? Will? What is molded? Say to
50:23
it's molder? Why have you made me like this? Question? Number three?
50:28
Has the pottern no right over the clay to make out of the same
50:31
lump, one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? Twenty two.
50:36
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his
50:38
power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order
50:45
to make known the riches of his glory, for vessels which he prepared beforehand
50:49
for glory, even as verse twenty four, whom he has called. So
50:52
I think the simplest answer is Paul is saying we don't even have a right
50:57
to ask that question, because the Creator has the right to do with his
51:00
clay whatever he pleases. Now, I'll be honest with you. I struggle
51:06
with that answer, So I'll be lying if I told you that didn't bother
51:09
me. But it is biblical, and we either take it for what it
51:13
is or say, you know what, I don't accept this book. I
51:15
leave the pastoral aspect of this. Yeah. I think also maybe the question
51:27
is like, is it necessary? Therefore none of my choices are my own?
51:34
Right, none of my choices are my own, They're all determined God.
51:39
What I've learned is that that's not necessarily the case. So God's not
51:45
up there deciding that you should have clay pot chicken rice after this at chadchan
51:52
thing like you in the way where God is mean so that when you go
51:58
to church thing later you will not choose any other any other food except the
52:04
clear perche can rise because God is determined. So it's not it's not how
52:07
we understand free will and god sovereignty. Right? Oh? Is that well?
52:14
I think there's a distinction. Right. So for example, if I
52:15
if I see, if I see, if I let's see someone is I'm
52:19
walking past a swimming pool and someone is swimming there, I can be falced
52:23
into the pool. Someone could come behind me and push me against my will.
52:27
God doesn't do that. In that case, I jump, but I
52:30
didn't choose to jump. I was pushed from the back. That's not how
52:32
it happens. Rather, if it's a person I care for, I am
52:37
moved to jump, but it really doesn't. While I think I'm doing it
52:40
of my own choice, which I am, my choice has been influenced by
52:45
the person in that I'm compassionately reacting to that person. Now, had it
52:50
been someone let's say that I was not too fond of. Okay, let's
52:52
just say maybe Yuguan club. I'm sorry, sorry, Liverpool manager, but
52:58
no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Do you is a good
53:00
man? Right? Okay? So if let's say, if let's say it
53:05
is someone that is not I'm not too fond of, I mean not jump.
53:07
But either way, my decision to jump or not to jump depends on
53:12
my relationship with a person that is beyond my control. So I'm reacting to
53:15
it. So in that sense, my choices do matter, But at every
53:19
moment of choice, I'm acting upon a predisposition that is essentially out of my
53:24
control. And it's the simplest way to demonstrate this is to ask you this
53:27
question, how many have you here love Durian? Can I see your hands
53:31
you love? Can you choose to hate Durian? You can choose not to
53:37
eat Durian. You can't just love Duria and it's wired into you. That's
53:39
what it is. So someone can say, don't eat Durian for one year,
53:44
but they better compensate with a different way so that it influences the choice.
53:49
That's how it is. So what we believe is that there is no
53:52
We don't believe in uninfluenced or undetermined free will. It's a complete free will,
53:57
completely free, but we have freedom of choice. But there is influence.
54:01
It's externally yes. Left for example, like I mean, none of
54:07
us chose to be born the year we were born to parents, we were
54:08
born to the race we were born in. We can't choose that, but
54:13
having been born that way has already kind of predisposed us to so many different
54:16
choices. We'll make in our lives after that, right, and the way
54:20
our parents brought us up, None of us we chose. So what we
54:22
think, we react in a certain way in same culture. It is our
54:28
completely our choice. It is not entirely true because we have been influenced.
54:32
Uh. And and God is sovereign over all of those things that are happening.
54:38
You know that we may not be We cannot see in a naked eye.
54:42
Yep, Okay, cool. I think that's all we have time for.
54:49
Of course, it's never enough time, and so we probably need to
54:53
do a live stream or something. Maybe will do a live stream. Maybe
54:57
we will. Yeah, we'll see how we can. We can we can
55:01
tackle this. It's a very, very big topic. But we do need
55:05
to end here, and next week we will deal with another big topic.
55:08
And we chose that because it's something we are facing today. Uh. And
55:12
you may and counter a colleague or a classmate that will bring up secularism and
55:17
progressive Christianity. I think those are important things to talk about. There's a
55:21
question here about homosexuality, like if God created everything, why do he create
55:27
homosexuals? So there's a loaded question there, and we can deal with that
55:30
next week, but the intention is also to invite someone to come and address
55:37
that topic on its own at another time. So just want to let you
55:40
know that we are as a leadership thinking about these things, and we know
55:44
that it's something that you face on a day to day basis and there are
55:47
questions that you're being asked. So, uh, we only have like one
55:52
hour on a Saturday, so we will have to deal with it as we
55:54
go along, but we are thinking about it. We are thinking about you,
55:58
and we want to make sure that you get God's perspective from his word
56:00
on how to deal with his real life, day to day issues. All
56:04
right, thank you for listening to the Generation's Church podcast. We hope you
56:08
have been blessed by the Word of God today. Remember to stay tuned by
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