Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #578 Jason Flom with Charles "Brandon" Martin
Transcript
- 0:04Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's senior producer Connor Hall with more case
- 0:07Speaker 1: updates and behind the scenes insights. And this week we're
- 0:11Speaker 1: talking about Charles Brandon Martin and the intersection of two
- 0:16Speaker 1: forces in the post conviction litigation world, Brady v. Maryland
- 0:21Speaker 1: and the Anti Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, otherwise
- 0:25Speaker 1: known as EDPUTT. The latter puts restrictions on post conviction proceedings,
- 0:30Speaker 1: most notably limiting the power of federal courts to disturb
- 0:34Speaker 1: state court rulings to only in cases where the rulings
- 0:38Speaker 1: are contrary to or an unreasonable application of clearly decided
- 0:43Speaker 1: federal law, which can happen in the application of the
- 0:47Speaker 1: precedent set in Brady v. Maryland. The landmarks Supreme Court
- 0:50Speaker 1: ruling that forbids hiding exculpatory evidence from defendants, prosecutors favor
- 0:55Speaker 1: pastime am right anyway, So when a state appellate court
- 0:59Speaker 1: is deciding whether a Brady violation has occurred, two standards
- 1:03Speaker 1: must be met. Was the evidence of innocence not disclosed
- 1:06Speaker 1: to the defense before trial? And would it have made
- 1:09Speaker 1: a difference for the verdict? And disputes arise over the
- 1:12Speaker 1: subjectivity and human error that can creep into these decisions,
- 1:17Speaker 1: so when such disputes are first settled by a state court,
- 1:21Speaker 1: the matter can be raised again in federal court, at
- 1:24Speaker 1: which point the state court decision can be disturbed only
- 1:27Speaker 1: if that ruling is contrary to or an unreasonable application
- 1:31Speaker 1: of the standard set out by Brady v. Maryland That
- 1:34Speaker 1: no fair minded jurist could rule in the same way
- 1:37Speaker 1: in light of the previously undisclosed evidence. So it's an
- 1:40Speaker 1: incredibly high standard which the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals
- 1:44Speaker 1: felt was met in Brandon's case. To refresh you on
- 1:48Speaker 1: Brandon's case, without getting too deep into the weeds, we
- 1:50Speaker 1: have this gatoray bottle near the scene of an attempted murder,
- 1:54Speaker 1: and it's got a mix of duct and medical tapes
- 1:57Speaker 1: and opening at either end, some ashes, and some hares,
- 2:01Speaker 1: three DNA profiles, one of which was the victims, and
- 2:05Speaker 1: none of which were definitively Brandon's. And an investigator opined
- 2:10Speaker 1: that it might be a makeshift silencer, just like he
- 2:13Speaker 1: had seen in a Steven Segall movie. Not kidding, and
- 2:18Speaker 1: without any testing to prove that theory, the state relied
- 2:22Speaker 1: on witness testimony instead that Brandon had done an Internet
- 2:26Speaker 1: search to learn how to make such a silencer before
- 2:29Speaker 1: covering his tracks by getting rid of that computer. But
- 2:33Speaker 1: years later it's discovered that the state knew that wasn't
- 2:37Speaker 1: the case. They knew Brandon hadn't destroyed the evidence, how
- 2:42Speaker 1: because they had it and had done forensic analysis pre
- 2:46Speaker 1: trial and determined that no such Internet search had ever
- 2:49Speaker 1: occurred with not only that computer, but four others. Yet
- 2:53Speaker 1: they presented that false narrative through witness testimony that they
- 2:57Speaker 1: knew was a lie. Meanwhile, others have always said that
- 3:00Speaker 1: the gatorade bottle was used for smoking weed, So this
- 3:04Speaker 1: impedes the witness in question as well as undermine the
- 3:07Speaker 1: silencer theory and whether or not this gatorade bottle and
- 3:11Speaker 1: subsequent DNA testing had any meaning to the case at all.
- 3:16Speaker 1: All that is left in this case after that Brady
- 3:19Speaker 1: violation is a ballistics test that said the bullet fragments
- 3:22Speaker 1: at the scene could have been produced by firearms made
- 3:25Speaker 1: by one of sixteen manufacturers, one of sixteen manufacturers from
- 3:30Speaker 1: whom Brandon and who knows who else had purchased firearms.
- 3:34Speaker 1: And then there's the alleged motive, which was dispelled by
- 3:37Speaker 1: both the victim and Brandon's wife at trial. Lastly, there's
- 3:41Speaker 1: a witness who claims that he saw Brandon and a
- 3:44Speaker 1: would be co conspirator who got acquitted by the way.
- 3:47Speaker 1: This witness said that he saw them making something with
- 3:50Speaker 1: a gatorade bottle prior to the shooting, then admitted on
- 3:53Speaker 1: the stand that he was testifying this way to protect
- 3:56Speaker 1: his sister, who was likely involved. So first a steam
- 4:00Speaker 1: appellate court ruled that this was a material Brady violation.
- 4:04Speaker 1: Then a higher state court reversed that decision. Brandon's team
- 4:08Speaker 1: then filed a federal habeas petition, which received two rulings
- 4:12Speaker 1: in their favor before reaching the justices of the United
- 4:15Speaker 1: States Supreme Court or maybe one of their lackeys from
- 4:18Speaker 1: the Federalist Society, and they ruled that the federal courts
- 4:23Speaker 1: misapplied EDBA and that a fair minded jurist could have
- 4:27Speaker 1: still come to the same verdict based on the remaining evidence.
- 4:31Speaker 1: And I'd like you all to listen to our coverage
- 4:33Speaker 1: and decide for yourselves if you think they got it right.
- 4:37Speaker 1: That instead of getting a new trial or dismissing his
- 4:41Speaker 1: charges altogether, that the state never had to answer for
- 4:45Speaker 1: fabricating a false narrative, a false narrative that was even
- 4:49Speaker 1: raised during jury instruction. How destruction of evidence can constitute
- 4:53Speaker 1: a consciousness of guilt? Does this ruling set a precedent
- 4:57Speaker 1: that allows such tactics? It wasn't our system already permissive
- 5:02Speaker 1: enough to prosecutors. While we're free to ponder the nature
- 5:05Speaker 1: of this system, Brandon and so many others like him
- 5:08Speaker 1: are living through it. I recently had a chance to
- 5:12Speaker 1: speak with him. I mean, god, he was only free
- 5:15Speaker 1: for like ten months. First time I spoke to him
- 5:18Speaker 1: in early twenty twenty five, he was still in prison.
- 5:20Speaker 1: Shortly after that he was released, awaiting a new trial
- 5:24Speaker 1: or maybe even dismissal of charges. Until this ruling, Brandon's
- 5:29Speaker 1: next move is filing for parole. Perhaps someone on the
- 5:33Speaker 1: board is listening right now, Maybe they can answer these questions.
- 5:39Speaker 2: On October twenty seventh, two thousand and eight, a pregnant
- 5:42Speaker 2: woman named Jody Lynn Torek answered a knot at her
- 5:46Speaker 2: front door and survived a gunshot, but tragically, her pregnancy
- 5:51Speaker 2: was terminated and police found what they believed to be
- 5:56Speaker 2: a makeshift silencer in her home. Then theorized that one
- 6:00Speaker 2: of the potential bothers. A married man named Charles Brandon
- 6:03Speaker 2: Martin had constructed the alleged silencer and arranged the attack,
- 6:08Speaker 2: despite a bunch of holes in this theory, including that
- 6:12Speaker 2: this alleged silencer may have actually been a bomb. One
- 6:15Speaker 2: alleged witness claimed that Brandon had searched the Internet for
- 6:19Speaker 2: ways to construct the silencer before disposing of the computer,
- 6:22Speaker 2: sending him away for life. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome
- 6:39Speaker 2: back to wrongful conviction, where we're going to go to Maryland,
- 6:42Speaker 2: just outside of DC, where a pregnant woman survived a
- 6:45Speaker 2: gunshot wound that ended her pregnancy, and then a tangled
- 6:49Speaker 2: web of lovers, law enforcement and various ulterior motives led
- 6:54Speaker 2: to the prosecution of not one but two innocent men,
- 6:58Speaker 2: while other compelling suspect were ignored, and one of the
- 7:02Speaker 2: two men caught up in that miserable web joins us
- 7:05Speaker 2: from a Maryland correction facility, Charles Brandon Martin, but he
- 7:09Speaker 2: just goes by Brandon, So Brandon, welcome to ronfel conviction.
- 7:13Speaker 3: I appreciate you having me.
- 7:14Speaker 2: And joining him to help tell this harrowing story. His attorney,
- 7:18Speaker 2: Elizabeth Frianzoso, who goes by Beth and will represent him
- 7:22Speaker 2: along with Donna Ferriman at a new trial if the
- 7:25Speaker 2: state ever stops delaying it. So Beth, welcome, thank you
- 7:29Speaker 2: for having us. And while this case is really more
- 7:33Speaker 2: of a Maryland story, Brandon's story began in DC and
- 7:36Speaker 2: it revolved heavily around basketball.
- 7:39Speaker 3: I grew up in the DC area. I went to Tomatha
- 7:41Speaker 3: High School, finished up the Saint Stephen Saint AGAs High
- 7:44Speaker 3: School in Alexandria. Before college, i've studied social science and
- 7:48Speaker 3: ath apology and sociology. The University of Pittsburgh unished Johnstown
- 7:53Speaker 3: and I started coaching and in basketball, and actually when
- 7:56Speaker 3: I was in college, started coaching at the high school
- 7:59Speaker 3: at ten in the summers. Then I had got a
- 8:02Speaker 3: job at Alleghany College in Pittsburgh. So I actually didn't
- 8:06Speaker 3: move to Maryland until two thousand and four with my
- 8:09Speaker 3: ex wife, who was my girlfriend at the times when
- 8:11Speaker 3: I had the head coaching job at the college and
- 8:13Speaker 3: Southern Maryland. Right after my first son was born.
- 8:17Speaker 2: The two young parents moved back to be closer to
- 8:19Speaker 2: their support systems understandably, and then they got married and
- 8:22Speaker 2: it wasn't long before their second child was born, and
- 8:25Speaker 2: it appears that Brandon enjoyed fatherhood.
- 8:28Speaker 3: With the job I had and everything, I was able
- 8:30Speaker 3: to make my schedule around the kids, and so I
- 8:33Speaker 3: was basically the primary caregiver for our kids while I
- 8:36Speaker 3: was there. I mean, I spent more hours for day
- 8:38Speaker 3: with the kids than anybody, from the second they woke
- 8:40Speaker 3: up all the way through the night time. But that's
- 8:42Speaker 3: the most important thing to me with those kids. I mean,
- 8:44Speaker 3: that's the hardest part for me right now, is being
- 8:46Speaker 3: away from the kids.
- 8:47Speaker 2: As time went by, the marital arrangement changed and Brandon
- 8:50Speaker 2: moved out, but they both remained committed to amicably co parenting.
- 8:54Speaker 4: He and his wife had separated, Pad Moore of just
- 8:57Speaker 4: a co parenting roommate type thing. His wife was aware
- 9:01Speaker 4: that he'd had relationships with other women, go somewhere else
- 9:04Speaker 4: in the evening, and he'd come home, go to the
- 9:06Speaker 4: kids sports games, and participate with the kids. He was
- 9:09Speaker 4: always a really active dad to.
- 9:11Speaker 3: Try to keep everything the same for the kids since
- 9:15Speaker 3: they were still young. I would get back to the
- 9:17Speaker 3: house in the morning before they woke up so that
- 9:19Speaker 3: they didn't notice anything different, which explained me and my
- 9:22Speaker 3: ex wife. We knew what the situation was.
- 9:25Speaker 2: And while living within this new arrangement, Brandon had three
- 9:29Speaker 2: more kids, including another son with his wife, but staying
- 9:32Speaker 2: single it was just a better fit for him setting
- 9:35Speaker 2: a casual expectation with any of his intimate partners, which
- 9:39Speaker 2: included three women at the time of this incident, Sherry Carter,
- 9:43Speaker 2: Maggie McFadden, and the victim in this case, Jody Lynn Torrick.
- 9:47Speaker 3: They tried to make it sound like I was in
- 9:50Speaker 3: committed relationships with all these people, and you know, with Jody,
- 9:53Speaker 3: we probably had only been around each other probably eight times.
- 9:56Speaker 4: She was actually dating someone else by the name of Emmanuel,
- 10:00Speaker 4: and they were actually more boyfriend girlfriend. Jody became pregnant.
- 10:03Speaker 4: It was uncertain who the father was, and Brandon was
- 10:06Speaker 4: very respectful of her making whatever decision that she wanted to,
- 10:11Speaker 4: which could include either having an abortion or keeping the baby,
- 10:15Speaker 4: and he agreed that if the baby was his, he
- 10:17Speaker 4: would support the baby. I think Emmanuel was not thrilled
- 10:20Speaker 4: that she was pregnant and didn't know who the father was,
- 10:22Speaker 4: so the state tried to paint this out to Brandon
- 10:26Speaker 4: being angry that she was pregnant and wanting to kill
- 10:29Speaker 4: her so that way he wouldn't have to pay child support,
- 10:32Speaker 4: but it simply wasn't true not to mention that there
- 10:35Speaker 4: was a whole host of other people that did have
- 10:37Speaker 4: some type of motive.
- 10:39Speaker 2: And this appears to have included one of Brandon's other
- 10:42Speaker 2: intimate partners, Maggie McFadden, who had allegedly threatened other women
- 10:46Speaker 2: with gun violence, including Sharry Carter, which brings us to
- 10:50Speaker 2: October twenty seventh, two thousand and eight, when Jody Lyn
- 10:53Speaker 2: Torrik was at home talking to a friend on the phone.
- 10:56Speaker 4: She was two months pregnant at the time. Talking on
- 10:58Speaker 4: the phone to her friend around three o'clock in the afternoon,
- 11:02Speaker 4: and someone knocked on her front door saying they were
- 11:05Speaker 4: a salesman, and then she ended the call. Blair tried
- 11:08Speaker 4: to call her back a few times, Jody never picked
- 11:11Speaker 4: up the phone, so she got worried and she called
- 11:14Speaker 4: Jody's roommate, Jessica. Jody also worked for Jessica. Blair requested
- 11:19Speaker 4: that Jessica leave work and check on Jody. So Jessica
- 11:23Speaker 4: finds Jody lying there unconscious with a gunshot wound, and
- 11:27Speaker 4: she calls nine to one one. The police come to
- 11:30Speaker 4: the scene. At that point, Jody's lying in the doorway,
- 11:33Speaker 4: She's still breathing, and she was hospitalized for quite some
- 11:38Speaker 4: time for serious injuries.
- 11:39Speaker 2: A three eighty caliber bullet and casing were collected from
- 11:42Speaker 2: where she was found, and then across the living room
- 11:46Speaker 2: from there police found a curious looking Gatorie bottle. The
- 11:49Speaker 2: mouth was wrapped in layers of duct tape and medical
- 11:53Speaker 2: tape which formed a rectangular opening, and then on the
- 11:57Speaker 2: bottom there was a hole covered an ash and soot,
- 12:01Speaker 2: and the lead detective from ann Arundel County, Richard Allman,
- 12:05Speaker 2: thought that that was a makeshift silencer.
- 12:08Speaker 4: There was no expert testimony whatsoever about gatorade bottles or
- 12:11Speaker 4: other bottles being made into silencers. Detective Richard Alvin testified
- 12:16Speaker 4: it reminded him of a makeshift silencer he'd seen in
- 12:19Speaker 4: a steven Sagall movie.
- 12:21Speaker 2: But rather than ordering chemical analysis to prove that theory,
- 12:24Speaker 2: it just became an accepted fact, and there were a
- 12:28Speaker 2: few hairs stuck in the tape and the contraption was
- 12:32Speaker 2: saved for DNA testing and hair microscopy. Meanwhile, they spoke
- 12:36Speaker 2: with Jody's roommate, Jessica Higgs.
- 12:38Speaker 4: During the interview, Jessica used the very crass racist language.
- 12:43Speaker 4: She used the N word and stated she did not
- 12:46Speaker 4: like black people, that she didn't like that Jody had
- 12:48Speaker 4: black men in and out of the house, and that
- 12:51Speaker 4: she didn't like or didn't trust Brandon because he's black.
- 12:55Speaker 4: She basically came up with this unfounded, baseless theory that
- 12:59Speaker 4: all it must have been Brandon because he was in
- 13:01Speaker 4: some way pissed off that she was pregnant and didn't
- 13:04Speaker 4: want to have an abortion.
- 13:05Speaker 2: The police theorized that this married man wanted Jody dead
- 13:09Speaker 2: to hide his infidelity and potential extramarital child. So Anne
- 13:15Speaker 2: Arundel County police coordinated with Charles County to pay a
- 13:19Speaker 2: visit to Brandon and his wife.
- 13:21Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the next day they were accusing me when
- 13:23Speaker 3: I was at home with the kids and I see
- 13:26Speaker 3: a shruck parked in front of my driveway, like blocking
- 13:29Speaker 3: my driveway, tended windows, and I actually ended up calling
- 13:33Speaker 3: the police because I'm afraid I'm at home with the
- 13:36Speaker 3: kids and I'm thinking somebody wants to try to rob
- 13:38Speaker 3: me something. They said they were going to send someone over,
- 13:40Speaker 3: which clearly they didn't because they knew who it was
- 13:43Speaker 3: and so the original interaction with them was when I
- 13:47Speaker 3: found out that she had actually been shot.
- 14:07Speaker 2: Without knowing the time of the shooting, Brandon told them
- 14:10Speaker 2: where he was the day before, at Maggie macfadden's house
- 14:13Speaker 2: speaking with her brother Frank Bradley about rehab from about
- 14:17Speaker 2: one point thirty to four point thirty PM, thereby making
- 14:21Speaker 2: him unavailable for him to have shot Jody.
- 14:24Speaker 3: And then in the meantime, the police were actually speaking
- 14:27Speaker 3: to my wife at the time, and they made her
- 14:30Speaker 3: meet them at like a mattress warehouse or something like
- 14:33Speaker 3: that on the way home from her job. So they
- 14:35Speaker 3: had her basically alone talking to her, and so I'm
- 14:38Speaker 3: trying to call her and can't reach her. They wouldn't
- 14:40Speaker 3: let her pick the phone up when I'm calling now.
- 14:43Speaker 2: Unaware of the marital arrangement that upended their theory, they
- 14:46Speaker 2: may have hoped to upset her with the news of
- 14:48Speaker 2: an extra marital affair and child, perhaps gaining the state's witness,
- 14:51Speaker 2: but to no avail. They were told about Brandon's other
- 14:54Speaker 2: intimate partners, which brought them to Sherry Carter, as well
- 14:57Speaker 2: as Maggie McFadden and her brothers Frank, Dennis and Michael Bradley,
- 15:01Speaker 2: all of whom corroborated Brandon's alibi. But instead of rethinking
- 15:05Speaker 2: their theory in the face of this new evidence, they
- 15:08Speaker 2: persisted with Brandon while trying to again aggravate his wife.
- 15:12Speaker 3: When they had originally asked about searching the house and
- 15:14Speaker 3: searching the car and all that stuff, we didn't have
- 15:16Speaker 3: any issue with that. That was fine, But instead of
- 15:20Speaker 3: going on the schedule that we had agreed upon, they
- 15:22Speaker 3: waited until they knew I was going to be gone
- 15:24Speaker 3: from the work, and they came over the house when
- 15:26Speaker 3: she was there with the kids, and so just trying
- 15:28Speaker 3: to upset her, messing the house up, slashing bags open
- 15:32Speaker 3: that could have just been unzipped, and just making a
- 15:34Speaker 3: mess of the place, doing the best they could to
- 15:35Speaker 3: try to upset her in any way, hoping that I
- 15:38Speaker 3: had done something and she was going to fell on me,
- 15:40Speaker 3: but there was nothing to do.
- 15:41Speaker 2: In addition to information, they may have been looking for
- 15:44Speaker 2: a three eighty caliber pistol or some other incriminating evidence,
- 15:47Speaker 2: but all they turned up was a text exchange between
- 15:50Speaker 2: Brandon and Jodie.
- 15:52Speaker 4: If you look at the text messages, it just says
- 15:54Speaker 4: what time do you work? To which she responded, I'm off.
- 15:58Speaker 4: Brandon said hello at five level, which was two hours
- 16:01Speaker 4: after the shooting. He sent another message, I got some
- 16:04Speaker 4: stuff with the kids to about seven o'clock, so any
- 16:06Speaker 4: time later, how much did you need, suggesting that they
- 16:09Speaker 4: had talked over the phone or something, So why they
- 16:13Speaker 4: suggested that was in some way nefarious or him trying
- 16:17Speaker 4: to ascertain if she was home alone. In fact, it
- 16:20Speaker 4: suggests one that they were just having a normal conversation
- 16:23Speaker 4: about him providing her something that she needed and scheduling it.
- 16:27Speaker 4: And the fact that he was completely clueless as to
- 16:31Speaker 4: the fact that she'd been shot because he's texting her
- 16:33Speaker 4: two hours after.
- 16:35Speaker 2: Yet inexplicably, this was later present at as evidence of guilt. Meanwhile,
- 16:40Speaker 2: a month out from the shooting, Jody regained consciousness, but
- 16:43Speaker 2: she had no memory of the shooting, and she couldn't
- 16:46Speaker 2: identify the shooter.
- 16:47Speaker 4: She could remember I think what happened up to the
- 16:50Speaker 4: day of the shooting in her life generally, and she
- 16:53Speaker 4: gained her memory for future events, but did not remember
- 16:56Speaker 4: anything about being shot.
- 16:58Speaker 3: Well, they interviewed Jody when she first got home. He
- 17:03Speaker 3: let them know that I've never asked her to get
- 17:05Speaker 3: a hors. I think she said he never told me
- 17:07Speaker 3: to do anything associated with it. Then they come the
- 17:09Speaker 3: trial still saying that was going on when she actually
- 17:12Speaker 3: told them that before.
- 17:14Speaker 2: So they chose to ignore the victim and Brandon's wife
- 17:17Speaker 2: about the motive or lack thereof, as well as his
- 17:20Speaker 2: corroborated alibi, and they obtained a warrant to collect strands
- 17:24Speaker 2: of Brandon's hair for comparison to the gatorade bottle. Again,
- 17:28Speaker 2: no testing was done to determine if this crazy Stephen
- 17:31Speaker 2: Sigall movie silence or theory held any water. I mean,
- 17:34Speaker 2: my first thought was that this contraption was found outside
- 17:37Speaker 2: of the immediate crime scene, and it sounds like a
- 17:41Speaker 2: let's face, it sounds like a homemade bomb.
- 17:43Speaker 3: I think he might be pretty spot on there.
- 17:46Speaker 4: And that also, I guess what would explain why there
- 17:49Speaker 4: may have been some burnt residue in it. That's what
- 17:51Speaker 4: happens to marijuana when you smoke it. Also, whither it
- 17:54Speaker 4: would have been a little bit of a tape around it,
- 17:56Speaker 4: and there was a multiple DNA profile not ruling out
- 18:00Speaker 4: out either Jody or Brandon. And I think the fact
- 18:03Speaker 4: that Jody's and Brandon's and who knows who else is
- 18:06Speaker 4: might have been on it because it was a mixed
- 18:08Speaker 4: profile would be consistent with that being what this gatorade
- 18:12Speaker 4: bottle was used for. And so essentially that there's nothing
- 18:15Speaker 4: about the DNA that would suggest that he did anything
- 18:18Speaker 4: nefarious with this gatorade bottle. But yet, because Detective Albin
- 18:22Speaker 4: had seen this interesting steven Sagall movie, he decided to
- 18:25Speaker 4: make that the theory of the state's case that it was
- 18:28Speaker 4: a silencer.
- 18:29Speaker 2: So with Jessica Biggs theory which had been debunked by
- 18:32Speaker 2: Jody and Brandon's wife, followed by an innocuous text exchange,
- 18:36Speaker 2: and then Brandon's hair found on what was probably a
- 18:40Speaker 2: bond considering Jody wasn't excluded either. I mean, how many
- 18:45Speaker 2: shooting victims handle the silencer that's used on them. Nevertheless,
- 18:52Speaker 2: they arrested Brandon.
- 18:54Speaker 3: It was a surprise. I was actually on my way
- 18:56Speaker 3: taking the kids to practice when we would hit into
- 18:58Speaker 3: the car, getting the kids in the car, and they
- 19:01Speaker 3: pull up with all the police and all this stuff
- 19:03Speaker 3: in arrestment.
- 19:04Speaker 2: He was arrested on March thirtieth, two thousand and nine,
- 19:07Speaker 2: then bonded out, which started a fight over pre trialed
- 19:10Speaker 2: attention that tied up his lawyers and had Brandon in
- 19:13Speaker 2: and out of jail while they worked to build support
- 19:15Speaker 2: for the silencer theory, starting with Sharry Carter.
- 19:18Speaker 4: Brandon had a computer because he was a coach at
- 19:21Speaker 4: the College of Southern Maryland, so he had his work
- 19:23Speaker 4: laptop at home, and she got upset with him and
- 19:28Speaker 4: made up a story that he was searching all these
- 19:31Speaker 4: things on the computer about making silencers out of bottles,
- 19:36Speaker 4: and then she testified the computer had been destroyed, and
- 19:39Speaker 4: the police testimony was such that they did not have
- 19:42Speaker 4: the computer.
- 19:43Speaker 2: But we later found out that they definitely fucking did,
- 19:46Speaker 2: and that a forensic search of this particular computer and
- 19:50Speaker 2: others belonging to Brandon had disproved Scherry's story. And in
- 19:54Speaker 2: light of that tidbit, do we believe that other potentially
- 19:58Speaker 2: exculpatory evidence was just simply somehow lost.
- 20:02Speaker 4: They lost street camera footage that would have showed if
- 20:06Speaker 4: Brandon had driven towards Jodie's house that day, or for
- 20:08Speaker 4: that matter, specifically who drove toward the house that day.
- 20:13Speaker 4: They lost part of a recording of a police interview
- 20:16Speaker 4: in which Maggie's brother Michael Bradley basically endorsed brandon sallibi,
- 20:22Speaker 4: which directly conflicted with Michael Bradley's trial testimony.
- 20:25Speaker 2: During his initial interview, Michael Bradley corroborated Brandon's alibi statement
- 20:31Speaker 2: that he was at their house on the afternoon of
- 20:33Speaker 2: the shooting, but in November two thousand and nine, in
- 20:36Speaker 2: exchange for immunity and other favors, Michael Bradley changed that story,
- 20:41Speaker 2: adding in a new name, Jerry Burks.
- 20:45Speaker 4: Bradley testified that it was him, Frank, Jerry Burks, Brandon.
- 20:49Speaker 4: They were smoking marijuana in the house. He was intoxicated,
- 20:54Speaker 4: that he saw Frank take medical tape to the kitchen.
- 20:57Speaker 4: He saw Brandon and Frank go up to Maggie McFadden's room,
- 21:01Speaker 4: Frank coming down and retrieving a gatorade bottle, and then
- 21:04Speaker 4: Brandon and Jerry Burkes left the house.
- 21:07Speaker 2: Bradley said they left around two pm, and then the
- 21:11Speaker 2: pair allegedly returned and asked Frank to discard of a bag.
- 21:15Speaker 2: But where did this Jerry Burke's guy come from.
- 21:18Speaker 3: He was a friend of Maggie's brother, and I believe
- 21:23Speaker 3: a friend of Maggie, and just my feeling of it
- 21:27Speaker 3: is that he sort of was in the same situation
- 21:29Speaker 3: as me where they're alleged he did something that he
- 21:32Speaker 3: probably didn't actually do.
- 21:33Speaker 4: I think that they were hoping in some way that
- 21:35Speaker 4: Jerry would turn on Brandon, but he didn't.
- 21:37Speaker 2: And we'll get into Michael Bradley's reasons for throwing Jerry
- 21:40Speaker 2: Burkes under the bus in a bit. But they used
- 21:43Speaker 2: his statement and Jerry Carter's lives to bring Jerry Burkes
- 21:46Speaker 2: into the fold. But Burkes called their bluff refusing to
- 21:51Speaker 2: give a statement about how Brandon allegedly hired him to
- 21:54Speaker 2: shoot Jody using this alleged silencer.
- 21:57Speaker 4: He maintained his innocence, he was trying by a jury,
- 22:00Speaker 4: he was acquitted, And it really does seem that after
- 22:03Speaker 4: Jerry was found not guilty, they really ramped up the
- 22:06Speaker 4: prosecution of Brandon. The judge didn't even allow the fact
- 22:11Speaker 4: that Jerry was acquitted to be heard by the jury
- 22:14Speaker 4: in Brandon's case.
- 22:16Speaker 2: By this time, Brandon had been re arrested on a
- 22:18Speaker 2: false assault allegation, and even that same judge didn't find
- 22:23Speaker 2: the charge credible.
- 22:24Speaker 3: They had a witness basically lie and say that I
- 22:26Speaker 3: had assaulted them. Now it came up doing a hearing
- 22:29Speaker 3: that it was a false statement, and the judge explained
- 22:32Speaker 3: that even though I don't believe that it occurred, I'm
- 22:35Speaker 3: going to hold you because trial is two weeks away.
- 22:37Speaker 3: Then the trial gets postponed for a good deal of time,
- 22:41Speaker 3: and they still kept me in there.
- 22:43Speaker 2: Trial was postponed until April twenty ten. Meanwhile, the media
- 22:48Speaker 2: was regurgitating whatever the state fed them.
- 22:50Speaker 3: They asked the possible jurors, who has read or seen
- 22:54Speaker 3: anything about this case on tvor in the newspapers, because
- 22:57Speaker 3: they're trying to out by every single person stands up,
- 23:01Speaker 3: you know, so right then you're like okay. And the
- 23:04Speaker 3: issue with that is that the way the media is
- 23:08Speaker 3: used by the police and the States is that they'll
- 23:10Speaker 3: go to the media and they'll say that this person
- 23:13Speaker 3: was the rest of goodness and this and so on
- 23:15Speaker 3: the news in the newspaper, they'll put your face in
- 23:17Speaker 3: there and said you allegedly did this, and no one's
- 23:20Speaker 3: listening to the allegedly, and no one is thinking about
- 23:24Speaker 3: the fact that it might not be true. And so
- 23:26Speaker 3: everybody stands up, and the next part of the vaivier
- 23:30Speaker 3: is asking them that they can still be fair and impartial,
- 23:33Speaker 3: so everybody sits back down.
- 23:35Speaker 2: TROLD began on April twenty seven, twenty ten, with the victim,
- 23:38Speaker 2: Jody Lynn Toros.
- 23:40Speaker 4: She testified that she did not remember anything as far
- 23:44Speaker 4: as what happened on that day, that she and Brandon
- 23:47Speaker 4: had a sexual relationship, and that she was pregnant, and
- 23:51Speaker 4: she also had a relationship with another man named Emmanuel,
- 23:54Speaker 4: and that she was uncertain who the father was, and
- 23:58Speaker 4: that she and Brandon had some discussions about abortion and
- 24:01Speaker 4: she told him that she wished to keep her baby,
- 24:05Speaker 4: and there was no testimony that he in any way
- 24:08Speaker 4: was threatening to her or anything of the like, but.
- 24:11Speaker 2: The state doesn't have to prove motive. And they also
- 24:14Speaker 2: presented the innocuous text thread with a straight base and
- 24:17Speaker 2: said that it was evidence of guilt. And then they
- 24:22Speaker 2: moved on to the alleged silencer, you know, the bong
- 24:24Speaker 2: silencer theory, and they put on medical experts that tied
- 24:28Speaker 2: Brandon's DNA to this gatorade bottle. The first one testified
- 24:32Speaker 2: that one hair was human, the other was from a cat,
- 24:36Speaker 2: and then an expert in mitochondrial DNA, doctor Terry Melton,
- 24:40Speaker 2: took the stand.
- 24:42Speaker 4: Doctor Terry Melton testified, what mitochondrial DNA could show that
- 24:46Speaker 4: someone is from the same maternal lineage, but it can
- 24:49Speaker 4: never say for sure that this hair absolutely for sure
- 24:52Speaker 4: came from this person. Doctor Melton testified she could rule
- 24:56Speaker 4: out ninety nine point ninety four percent of North Americans,
- 25:00Speaker 4: and during cross examination she acknowledged that left roughly one
- 25:03Speaker 4: hundred and eighty thousand Americans and thirty thousand people in
- 25:06Speaker 4: Maryland with that same mitochondrial DNA profile.
- 25:10Speaker 2: So in plain English, it's a big fat nothing burger.
- 25:15Speaker 4: And they called Sarah Chenoweth, the forensic chemist who testified
- 25:19Speaker 4: about DNA and said it included DNA from at least
- 25:22Speaker 4: three individuals, which also would be consistent with it being
- 25:26Speaker 4: a bong. It says at least one male and one female.
- 25:29Speaker 4: She did roll out three other people submitted for comparison,
- 25:33Speaker 4: didn't roll out Brandon, didn't rule out Jody. Plus, we're
- 25:37Speaker 4: not suggesting that his DNA necessarily wasn't on the bottle
- 25:40Speaker 4: that they all used as a bong. But even if
- 25:42Speaker 4: there was a hair that could have possibly been Brandon's, well,
- 25:47Speaker 4: when people pass around a bong, their hair might get
- 25:50Speaker 4: on it. So I don't think that's really neither here
- 25:52Speaker 4: nor there, So that was it. There was no expert
- 25:55Speaker 4: testimony about silencers, how they're constructed. They could have tested
- 25:59Speaker 4: it trying to figure what was that little bit of
- 26:01Speaker 4: ash in the bottom was at marijuana or was it gunshot?
- 26:04Speaker 4: Resident they didn't bother to do it because they didn't
- 26:06Speaker 4: seem to think it was important.
- 26:07Speaker 2: The state hired three biological evidence experts to testify about
- 26:11Speaker 2: a contraption that they hadn't even proved was involved with
- 26:14Speaker 2: the shooting. Instead, they relied on Sherry Carter and Michael Bradley,
- 26:19Speaker 2: the latter of whom Michael told his news story about
- 26:22Speaker 2: Jerry Burks, but he kind of fell apart on cross examination.
- 26:26Speaker 4: On cross examination, he was questioned about the fact that
- 26:29Speaker 4: he received immunity from prosecution from Jody Tourok's shooting in
- 26:34Speaker 4: exchange for his testimony, and that he also received a
- 26:38Speaker 4: benefit in his obstruction of justice charges in New Jersey,
- 26:42Speaker 4: and he admitted that those charges stemmed from him lying
- 26:45Speaker 4: to the police. So he's a person who's approven liar
- 26:48Speaker 4: to the point where he actually was charged with obstruction
- 26:50Speaker 4: because of it. And then he admitted he only testified
- 26:54Speaker 4: because Maggie McFadden asked him to because she was involved
- 26:58Speaker 4: in the attempted murder.
- 27:00Speaker 2: Yes, Bradley testified that his sister directly asked him for
- 27:04Speaker 2: protection because she was involved. And then the state's other
- 27:08Speaker 2: star witness, Sherry Carter, also implicated Maggie McFadden.
- 27:13Speaker 4: Cherry testified that Maggie McFadden was threatening Sherry, among others,
- 27:17Speaker 4: on social media, was emailing her employer, and that Maggie
- 27:23Speaker 4: actually made a statement that she had someone shot and
- 27:27Speaker 4: the description of that statement sounded an awful lot like
- 27:30Speaker 4: she was talking about Jodi. She also had made comments
- 27:34Speaker 4: that she liked to fight and beat people up, and
- 27:36Speaker 4: she had shot people before. She was so volatile the
- 27:40Speaker 4: state decided not even to call her as a witness.
- 27:43Speaker 2: The state then found themselves trying to throw the court
- 27:47Speaker 2: off of Maggie McFadden's scent.
- 27:49Speaker 4: It was completely just twisted. It was backwards, basically saying
- 27:53Speaker 4: that the McFadden theory was far fetched because her aggressive
- 27:57Speaker 4: behavior would draw attention to her as a suspect, and
- 28:00Speaker 4: it was not logical that someone who's that flamboyantly aggressive
- 28:04Speaker 4: would have been responsible for trying to shoot someone mm hmm.
- 28:08Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but this wasn't Maggie McFadden's trial, and that's
- 28:14Speaker 2: not all that Sherry Carter said.
- 28:16Speaker 4: Cherry testified that she'd been in a relationship with Brandon
- 28:19Speaker 4: for three years, that he had a computer at his house,
- 28:22Speaker 4: and that it was his work computer from the College
- 28:25Speaker 4: of Southern Maryland, and it had a lot of restrictive settings,
- 28:28Speaker 4: so he wouldn't be able to modify system files or
- 28:32Speaker 4: download software without an administrator password. And so she then
- 28:36Speaker 4: testifies that we did this, and he did that, and
- 28:39Speaker 4: he looked up silencers, and then he said he got
- 28:41Speaker 4: rid of the computer because they'd looked up so many
- 28:44Speaker 4: crazy things on the internet in her apartment that if
- 28:47Speaker 4: it got searched, he didn't want it found. So she
- 28:49Speaker 4: says that, and she said she'd seen Brandon with a
- 28:52Speaker 4: handgun in September and October, and her testimony was unimpeached.
- 28:56Speaker 2: And had Brandon's trial attorney known that this computer was
- 29:00Speaker 2: not only in the state's possession, but also that it
- 29:02Speaker 2: had been forensically analyzed and no such searches had been detected,
- 29:06Speaker 2: then he too would have known that Sharry Carter had
- 29:10Speaker 2: perjured herself and that the state knowingly had presented false evidence,
- 29:15Speaker 2: but without that knowledge well trial counsel they did the
- 29:19Speaker 2: best they could.
- 29:20Speaker 4: A lot of the case was made on cross examination. Basically,
- 29:23Speaker 4: the argument was that the bottle was not a silencer,
- 29:25Speaker 4: but it was a boon that the DNA did not
- 29:28Speaker 4: indicate that he had any role in constructing a silencer
- 29:31Speaker 4: or anything like that, and that Jody's DNA was found
- 29:34Speaker 4: on it again that would corroborate the idea of it
- 29:37Speaker 4: being a boonk and that the state's theory about the
- 29:40Speaker 4: silencer failed to explain the presence of Jody's DNA. But
- 29:43Speaker 4: there was also a lot of references to who else
- 29:47Speaker 4: might have had a motive. Here you have Emmanuel Quarterly,
- 29:49Speaker 4: who's the other boyfriend of Jody. Then you have Maggie
- 29:53Speaker 4: McFadden who was all over the place threatening people, confessing
- 29:57Speaker 4: to shootings, alluding that it was Jody, and the fact
- 30:01Speaker 4: that she's directing her brothers what to do and how
- 30:04Speaker 4: to talk to the police. And then Maggie McFadden's friend
- 30:08Speaker 4: Steve Burnett, lied to the police about his whereabouts and
- 30:12Speaker 4: was never able to explain what he was doing.
- 30:14Speaker 2: Plus, Brandon's wife testified about their arrangement and how she
- 30:18Speaker 2: knew that he had children with other women, So he
- 30:20Speaker 2: would not have been motivated to kill Jody for keeping
- 30:23Speaker 2: the baby.
- 30:24Speaker 4: Without this whole computer thing trying to tie him up
- 30:28Speaker 4: to this bong that they claim was a silencer, and
- 30:31Speaker 4: have no forensic evidence whatsoever. They really didn't have anything
- 30:34Speaker 4: of a case. The only couple witnesses they had were
- 30:37Speaker 4: really alternate suspects. Sherry Carter. This was, I would say,
- 30:41Speaker 4: the butt four witness. That was not for this witness,
- 30:44Speaker 4: he wouldn't have been convicted. And she testified the computer
- 30:47Speaker 4: had been destroyed. The jury instruction, I'll read it verbatim.
- 30:51Speaker 4: You have heard evidence that the defendant removed a computer
- 30:54Speaker 4: from the house of Sherry Carter. Concealment of evidence is
- 30:57Speaker 4: not enough by itself to establish guilt, but may be
- 31:00Speaker 4: considered as evidence of guilt. Concealment of evidence may be
- 31:04Speaker 4: motivated by a variety of factors, some of which are
- 31:07Speaker 4: fully consistent with innocence. You must first decide whether the
- 31:10Speaker 4: defendant concealed any evidence in this case. If you find
- 31:14Speaker 4: that the defendant concealed evidence in this case, then you
- 31:17Speaker 4: must decide whether that conduct shows a consciousness of guilt. Crucially,
- 31:21Speaker 4: this instruction allowed the jury to infer guilt from Brandon's
- 31:25Speaker 4: alleged decision to get rid of the laptop due to
- 31:28Speaker 4: search history, and the only basis for the instruction was
- 31:32Speaker 4: Sherry Carter's testimony. So essentially the instruction was that if
- 31:37Speaker 4: he concealed evidence that could be used as consciousness of guilt.
- 31:43Speaker 3: You know, I don't have a criminal records. I've never
- 31:45Speaker 3: been through anything like this, and.
- 31:47Speaker 5: So you still have some faith consystem that if you
- 31:50Speaker 5: didn't do something, you're not going to Even with all
- 31:54Speaker 5: the stuff that state was trying to make up going brown,
- 31:58Speaker 5: no one that took the thing actually.
- 31:59Speaker 3: Said I did. So I did still have hope. I
- 32:01Speaker 3: didn't think that it was going to end up the
- 32:03Speaker 3: way it did. So they simply at North France, which
- 32:21Speaker 3: is the highest security level prison in Maryland, which is
- 32:24Speaker 3: actually I believe it was the Ultra Max or something
- 32:26Speaker 3: like that. I think they have a superstructure show about
- 32:30Speaker 3: the prison, which this is like a one on once
- 32:33Speaker 3: they would call it twenty three and one when you're
- 32:35Speaker 3: in yourself about twenty three hours a day, and so yeah,
- 32:39Speaker 3: so I've been up here basically ever since the prison
- 32:42Speaker 3: being what it is, there's things that are normalized here
- 32:45Speaker 3: that should not be normal. I don't even remember the
- 32:48Speaker 3: amount of people that's been killed stuff in here anymore.
- 32:51Speaker 3: People being murdered in here is not even spoke about it.
- 32:54Speaker 3: It's like it's something that people say in passion now
- 32:58Speaker 3: because it happened so often, Like the man who was
- 33:01Speaker 3: murdered by the Russian authors that was caught on the
- 33:03Speaker 3: body camera recently, people and outrage about it, which they
- 33:07Speaker 3: should be, but that happens daily like that. It just
- 33:10Speaker 3: because it finally was gone video.
- 33:12Speaker 2: And of course he's talking about Robert Brooks, the man
- 33:16Speaker 2: who was murdered on video, brutally murdered by a group
- 33:21Speaker 2: of New York State Correction officers. Now, Robert, what can
- 33:26Speaker 2: we say? Rest in peace? And to his point, from
- 33:31Speaker 2: what we hear during these interviews, that kind of thing
- 33:34Speaker 2: is all too common behind the walls, and that makes
- 33:38Speaker 2: post conviction litigation all that more urgent because every day
- 33:44Speaker 2: is life and death. And Brandon tapped into his scholastic
- 33:48Speaker 2: background in the law library.
- 33:50Speaker 3: The only thing I really do is read the law,
- 33:51Speaker 3: read the Bible, and once I got confident in my
- 33:55Speaker 3: legal abilities, as far as filing briefs and things of
- 33:58Speaker 3: that nature. In the past seven years, I think I've
- 34:01Speaker 3: helped about twenty guys get positive results in cases with
- 34:05Speaker 3: all this that that's them going home, getting admitted in
- 34:08Speaker 3: the drug program, getting time cut, finding information similar to mine.
- 34:13Speaker 2: So let's get back to Brandon's case.
- 34:15Speaker 3: I had filed a public information next, and once I
- 34:18Speaker 3: finally got the police file, was when I found the
- 34:20Speaker 3: information about the computer. In fact, it was on page
- 34:23Speaker 3: four because I'm up all night doing legal work, and
- 34:27Speaker 3: so i had my lighte on and I'm flipping the
- 34:29Speaker 3: page and I saw it, and I'm just I started
- 34:32Speaker 3: talking to myself. Really, I'm like, oh, this is what
- 34:33Speaker 3: I've been talking about all along.
- 34:35Speaker 4: The state had not only the computer, but they also
- 34:38Speaker 4: had the analysis of the computers that was done by
- 34:42Speaker 4: the state's computer experts, which concluded that these searches had
- 34:46Speaker 4: not been done on these computers, and that was not
- 34:50Speaker 4: disclosed to the defense. So it completely proves that Sherry
- 34:53Speaker 4: was lying and they deliberately presented false evidence. Then they
- 34:57Speaker 4: had the jury instructed that he was the one that
- 35:00Speaker 4: hid the evidence.
- 35:01Speaker 3: So the very next morning I called Justin Brown to
- 35:03Speaker 3: let him know what I filed in there and when
- 35:06Speaker 3: we started filing it from there, that was in twenty sixteen.
- 35:09Speaker 2: They also discovered Michael Bradley's initial interview in which he
- 35:13Speaker 2: corroborated Brandon's alibi, as well as that they at one
- 35:16Speaker 2: point had had video of the road leading up to
- 35:19Speaker 2: Jody's home which could have identified the actual killer, but
- 35:23Speaker 2: mysteriously it somehow went missing.
- 35:26Speaker 4: So there were so many things that were exculpatory that
- 35:29Speaker 4: the jury should have heard about but didn't hear about,
- 35:33Speaker 4: and instead were fed this false bill of lies about
- 35:37Speaker 4: silencers and computer searches and destruction of evidence that not
- 35:41Speaker 4: only wasn't true, but the opposite was true. It was
- 35:44Speaker 4: the government that was hiding the evidence and they did
- 35:47Speaker 4: it to secure this false conviction against Brandon, and Justin Brown,
- 35:51Speaker 4: who was Brandon's attorney at that time, did an excellent
- 35:53Speaker 4: job presenting it. At the post conviction level. Judge Silkworth
- 35:57Speaker 4: granted the post conviction relief based up upon your Brady violation,
- 36:01Speaker 4: which the court concluded that it was significant enough to
- 36:04Speaker 4: vacate the conviction and remand for a new trial.
- 36:07Speaker 2: And since twenty sixteen, the state has tied them up
- 36:10Speaker 2: on appeal rather than allow the new trial to go forward.
- 36:13Speaker 2: And in that time, Beth and Donna Fairman, as well
- 36:16Speaker 2: as a team from the powerhouse law firm Scadden, have
- 36:20Speaker 2: fought to maintain that twenty sixteen new trial motion all
- 36:24Speaker 2: the way to most recently the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.
- 36:28Speaker 4: At that level, Brandon was represented by some excellent lawyers
- 36:32Speaker 4: from Scadden who did an outstanding job, and basically a
- 36:36Speaker 4: three judge panel concluded that he's entitled to a new trial.
- 36:41Speaker 4: And so that's where we are right now. I am
- 36:44Speaker 4: looking forward to representing him at his trial or Donna Fairman,
- 36:48Speaker 4: and I think that he has waited way too long
- 36:53Speaker 4: for justice to happen here.
- 36:55Speaker 2: So here we are in February twenty twenty five, as
- 36:58Speaker 2: the state has a few more delay tactics to still try, because,
- 37:02Speaker 2: after all, what the hell are they going to present
- 37:05Speaker 2: at a new trial? Michael Bradley, Sherry Carter, I mean,
- 37:10Speaker 2: multiple DNA profiles found on a bond, maybe, I mean
- 37:14Speaker 2: I can't with this shit. But before I actually lose
- 37:18Speaker 2: my shit, let's go to closing arguments, where, first of all,
- 37:22Speaker 2: I want to thank both of you for joining us today.
- 37:26Speaker 2: So now I'm going to turn off my microphone, leave
- 37:29Speaker 2: my headphones on and kick back in my chair and
- 37:31Speaker 2: just listen to anything else you want to share. So Elizabeth,
- 37:36Speaker 2: you go first. Then just sort of hand the microphone
- 37:39Speaker 2: off the brand and he'll take us off into the sunset.
- 37:41Speaker 4: I think that he has been the victim of a
- 37:44Speaker 4: grievous injustice, that the system has failed him time and
- 37:48Speaker 4: time again. I am, however, grateful to the courts that
- 37:52Speaker 4: saw things as they should have and granted him a
- 37:55Speaker 4: new trial, and I feel confident that jury hearing actual
- 38:01Speaker 4: evidence rather than evidence that was manufactured twisted around, we'll
- 38:05Speaker 4: see that he's an innocent man and we'll find him
- 38:08Speaker 4: not guilty when he goes to.
- 38:09Speaker 3: Tryal thank you for having us on here and giving
- 38:12Speaker 3: us the opportunity to have this conversation, because with how
- 38:17Speaker 3: everything has gone here, you see that the way that
- 38:22Speaker 3: things that are spoken about from one point of view
- 38:25Speaker 3: are not necessarily what it really is, and so you
- 38:28Speaker 3: have so many lies and false things that will put
- 38:30Speaker 3: into the trial. You know, Yeah, people I know on
- 38:32Speaker 3: the street that don't know the truth about the situation
- 38:36Speaker 3: and will repeat stuff that's on the news because they
- 38:38Speaker 3: don't understand that the news is just getting stuff from
- 38:41Speaker 3: the police, and so you have stuff going to family members, kids,
- 38:44Speaker 3: all of that stuff that are being said that clearly
- 38:46Speaker 3: aren't true, and there's no way for these people to
- 38:49Speaker 3: get in the actual information. So I do believe that
- 38:52Speaker 3: this is a very important outlet. And for me clearly
- 38:56Speaker 3: sitting in here, I understand that this isn't what I
- 39:00Speaker 3: want to be here, but I also know that certain
- 39:03Speaker 3: positive things still occur. What you have to look for,
- 39:07Speaker 3: you have to understand what is wanted from you, what
- 39:09Speaker 3: is needed from you, And so that's why, like I
- 39:11Speaker 3: said earlier, I try to help in any way I
- 39:13Speaker 3: can with anyone because you never know why God has
- 39:16Speaker 3: allowed you to be in a certain situation. But if
- 39:19Speaker 3: you don't try to do the things that he wants
- 39:22Speaker 3: to do, then there's no positive that's going to come
- 39:24Speaker 3: from it, and then you're just looking at everything from
- 39:26Speaker 3: such a negative point of view. And so I know
- 39:28Speaker 3: that at some point, when it's the proper time, I'll
- 39:31Speaker 3: be out of here. But while I'm in here, I'm
- 39:34Speaker 3: going to continue to try to help people because I've
- 39:35Speaker 3: always done that, and so just try to keep the
- 39:38Speaker 3: positive mindset while continuing to fight for great really for justice,
- 39:43Speaker 3: for the truth. My kids, my family, They're the most
- 39:45Speaker 3: important thing to you, and so to be able to
- 39:48Speaker 3: get home to them and give the in person support
- 39:52Speaker 3: that I should have been able to give to them
- 39:54Speaker 3: their whole lives up and locked up for the most
- 39:56Speaker 3: part of their whole lives, and so I just pray
- 39:58Speaker 3: that happened soon.
- 40:04Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
- 40:07Speaker 2: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
- 40:09Speaker 2: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for
- 40:12Speaker 2: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our
- 40:15Speaker 2: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as
- 40:18Speaker 2: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliber.
- 40:22Speaker 2: The music in this production was supplied by three time
- 40:25Speaker 2: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
- 40:28Speaker 2: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and
- 40:31Speaker 2: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram
- 40:34Speaker 2: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of
- 40:37Speaker 2: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.
- 40:40Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported
- 40:43Speaker 1: in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed
- 40:46Speaker 1: by the individuals featured in this show are their own
- 40:48Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good