Latest / The Body Pod / How to Heal from Toxic Relationships with Monica Yearwood: Understanding Trauma & Breaking Painful Cycles

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How to Heal from Toxic Relationships with Monica Yearwood: Understanding Trauma & Breaking Painful Cycles · The Body Pod

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara and welcome
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Speaker 1: to the body Pod.
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Speaker 2: Monica. We are so happy to have you on the
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Speaker 2: Body Pod. I feel like this is a subject that
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Speaker 2: women really are interested in because I don't know anyone
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Speaker 2: who is not desiring a healthy and happy relationship. I
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Speaker 2: feel like everyone wants love, but they want it to
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Speaker 2: be a healthy form of love.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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Speaker 2: So, you've been helping people for fifteen years in toxic relationships.
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Speaker 2: Why don't you talk to us about how you got
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Speaker 2: into it, and then let's just dive into the questions
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Speaker 2: we have so many.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean, partially it's through my own healing
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Speaker 4: journey and striving to have healthy relationships myself. And then
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Speaker 4: I also I had owned a ballistic center in Chicago
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Speaker 4: for a decade and my focus there was helping men and.
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Speaker 3: Women who were recovering from work.
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Speaker 4: And relationship ornout, and many of those experiences had resulted
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Speaker 4: in health issues for them, so compromised immune system or
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Speaker 4: digestive issues, and so people would come in many times
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Speaker 4: to resolve a physical issue, but then at the root
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Speaker 4: of it we would find that it was often more
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Speaker 4: emotionally related and relationship based. So whether that was a
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Speaker 4: relationship that they had with their work or a relationship
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Speaker 4: that they had with another person, and the traumas that
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Speaker 4: they experienced as a result, and how that affected their
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Speaker 4: physical health.
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Speaker 5: Do you think really shows up physically?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that? You know, I mean most
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Speaker 1: of us have some form of trauma. Some of us
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Speaker 1: have more childhood trauma than others. Does that play into
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Speaker 1: these maybe maybe on both sides. Maybe someone that that
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Speaker 1: is the toxic person in the relationship or the person
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Speaker 1: that always gets in toxic relationships from what we have
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Speaker 1: experienced in childhood.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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Speaker 4: So I would say not in every single situation, not
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Speaker 4: with every woman that I work with, but I would
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Speaker 4: say probably ninety eight to ninety nine percent of them,
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Speaker 4: there are connections to their childhood that they may not
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Speaker 4: be realizing is playing a part in this. So and
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Speaker 4: that that speaks to how we can engage with a
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Speaker 4: toxic person. So, let's say someone who hasn't resolved something
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Speaker 4: from their childhood their parents, maybe they gave them the
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Speaker 4: silent treatment as a form of punishment. Let's just say
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Speaker 4: a woman or a man you know that hasn't keeled
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Speaker 4: from that may stay with a person who gives them
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Speaker 4: the silent treatment instead of walking away because they're they're
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Speaker 4: playing out something from their past. It may be because
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Speaker 4: it feels familiar to them, so it just feels familiar
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Speaker 4: to them.
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Speaker 3: Or it could also be.
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Speaker 4: That they're trying to heal that unconsciously, you know, by
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Speaker 4: recreating a pattern from their past and trying to find
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Speaker 4: resolve with that thing. And so it's really common with
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Speaker 4: the women that I work with that those types of things.
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Speaker 3: Are uncovered, you know, through the healing process.
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Speaker 5: So do you find that people do.
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Speaker 2: Partner with someone that is similar to their mother or father?
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Speaker 2: Do you see that pattern being true, like the old saying,
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Speaker 2: like you end up marrying your mom or you end
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Speaker 2: up marrying your dad. Do you find that to be
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Speaker 2: true or do you think that that's just a stigma
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Speaker 2: that doesn't ring true.
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Speaker 4: Well, I mean I work with people that are in
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Speaker 4: toxic relationships, and so I say that that's true. Yes,
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Speaker 4: a lot of the times it's true. But people that
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Speaker 4: are in healthy relationships, you know, I don't think it's
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Speaker 4: true that every person that's in a healthy relationship grew
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Speaker 4: up in a healthy household. You know, there are people
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Speaker 4: that are in healthy relationships that have experienced traumas you know,
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Speaker 4: from their childhood and overcome different things and are not
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Speaker 4: in toxic relationships. So I don't think it's you know,
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Speaker 4: it's always true.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So what are the signs of a toxic relationship?
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Speaker 2: How do you know that you were in a toxic relationship?
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Speaker 4: I think it's well, I think it starts off with
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Speaker 4: how you're feeling in the relationship.
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Speaker 3: So if you're feeling chronically you know.
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Speaker 4: Inadequate, inferior, not good enough, anxious, irritable, hyper vigilant, so
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Speaker 4: always you know, trying to be you know, predictive of
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Speaker 4: if your partner is going to have some kind of
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Speaker 4: a meltdown, and then you're trying to keep you keep
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Speaker 4: your health clean, or keep things in a certain order
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Speaker 4: that's not going to tick them off or upset them.
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Speaker 4: So how how you feel is a big one. But
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Speaker 4: even that can go over the radar for a lot
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Speaker 4: of people where they don't they're not realizing that they
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Speaker 4: don't feel good, you know, in their in their primary relationship,
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Speaker 4: and that there's something about that that's off. And so
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Speaker 4: sometimes in these relationships there's a decrease of personal standard,
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Speaker 4: you know, where chaos is becoming more and more common,
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Speaker 4: and that there's no point like, oh, something's something's off
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Speaker 4: here or something's wrong, So that that is probably one
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Speaker 4: of the most important points to be aware of. You know,
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Speaker 4: if you don't feel good, if you don't feel safe,
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Speaker 4: if you don't feel happy, if you don't feel like
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Speaker 4: this person in your life is helping you supporting you
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Speaker 4: in the realization of your own purpose.
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Speaker 3: You know, if it's if it's consuming you.
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Speaker 4: If you're thinking about the relationship more than you're thinking
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Speaker 4: about your friends, family, work, interests, hobbies, you know, it's
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Speaker 4: a point of obsession. Those are all signs that the
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Speaker 4: relationship isn't isn't healthy for you.
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Speaker 1: Do you think that what if we define a toxic relationship,
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Speaker 1: does that always mean narcissistic?
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Speaker 3: No?
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Speaker 1: No, what are the different times? Like do you have
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Speaker 1: a name for each, like a toxic relationship? Like, I'm
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Speaker 1: sure sometimes it could be narcissistic, But then I mean,
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Speaker 1: there are other diagnosis or not necessarily a diagnosis, but
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Speaker 1: like do you put those into categories?
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Speaker 4: I think they could be put into categories, you know,
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Speaker 4: and we do do a little bit of that in
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Speaker 4: my in my program, But I mean, no, somebody doesn't
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Speaker 4: have to be a narcissist to be.
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Speaker 3: Hurtful to you, or even abusive for that matter.
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Speaker 4: I mean, if you have somebody that is a serial cheater,
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Speaker 4: let's say, and you want monogamy and they're lying to you,
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Speaker 4: you know that that could be extremely hurtful.
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Speaker 3: And then sometimes it's you know, reflecting on our own behaviors.
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Speaker 4: So if I if I am you know, an intense
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Speaker 4: people please her, and I have a really hard time
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Speaker 4: saying what I want, and I lose hold of what
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Speaker 4: I want and I'm continuously you know, trying to make
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Speaker 4: do what other people want, other people want I was
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Speaker 4: really agreeable, then how can I expect to have authentic relationships?
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Speaker 3: You know, if I'm not being my true self?
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Speaker 4: Right, So that could also be that can also potentially
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Speaker 4: manifest in a toxic relationship where you're with someone that
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Speaker 4: may not be aligned with you in some way in
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Speaker 4: big ways because you're not being.
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Speaker 3: Your authentic self.
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Speaker 4: So I think there's looking at the other person, but
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Speaker 4: then there's also looking at ourselves and our own behaviors
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Speaker 4: and beliefs and how we're functioning in relationship.
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Speaker 2: You talk about the triple blow of what women experience
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Speaker 2: in toxic relationships?
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Speaker 4: What are those the triple blow? Okay, so I'm reflecting
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Speaker 4: on the posts that.
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Speaker 3: I made in regard.
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Speaker 4: Can you can you remind me what I saw? Actually,
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Speaker 4: I don't think I remember what I said in that post.
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Speaker 5: I actually have no idea. I wanted to know.
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Speaker 2: I wanted to know from the courses now, like who that? Well,
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Speaker 2: it's probably obvious to you from working with them. Like
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Speaker 2: what are the main things that women experience? It's got
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Speaker 2: to be the main triggers or the main form of
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Speaker 2: abuse if I mean, yeah, some type of abuse, right, yeah?
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Speaker 4: What are the main forms of abuse that and feels
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Speaker 4: in a toxic relationship?
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Speaker 3: Is that what you're unserting?
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Speaker 4: So there's definitely universal experiences that I think a lot
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Speaker 4: of women can really identify with, you know, hence this
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Speaker 4: whole thing.
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Speaker 3: With about narcissism.
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Speaker 4: You know, where women and men for that matter, are
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Speaker 4: identifying their own personal experience and story and in that,
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Speaker 4: you know, where it's like, oh my gosh, that's what
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Speaker 4: they do, that's the behavior that they do, or I
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Speaker 4: can relate to that, and then there's nuance you know
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Speaker 4: that makes somebody's individual story unique. But some of the
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Speaker 4: universal things that in general apply to a lot of
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Speaker 4: people and these experiences is that pretty early on they
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Speaker 4: know something is off.
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Speaker 3: In the relationship.
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Speaker 4: That that's again it's not every single time, but probably
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Speaker 4: in a like ninety percent of the times that by
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Speaker 4: the sixth month marker of the relationship something has happened.
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Speaker 4: So that could that could be that on the first
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Speaker 4: date they just had a feeling something was off that
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Speaker 4: I couldn't fully trust this person, or something's off, but
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Speaker 4: yet we connect in all these other ways and nobody's perfect,
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Speaker 4: so I'm going to stay engaging with this person. Or
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Speaker 4: by the six month, something pretty significant happens, like the
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Speaker 4: person goes into a total rage over something small, or
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Speaker 4: they ghost to you, they disappear and then they come back,
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Speaker 4: or there's something that doesn't line up, some kind of
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Speaker 4: a lie is uncovered, usually happens by the six month marker,
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Speaker 4: and yet the person still stays with this person. And
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Speaker 4: oftentimes those points of engagement that they stay involved with
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Speaker 4: this person do tie back to childhood and or it
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Speaker 4: could be childhood experiences that they had or you know,
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Speaker 4: traumas that we experience in adulthood too, you know, so
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Speaker 4: going through you know, infidelity as in all that leads
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Speaker 4: to a divorce. If can cause a lot of self esteem,
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Speaker 4: self worth issues that can be very traumatic, extremely traumatic.
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Speaker 4: And it's not uncommon for people to get into a
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Speaker 4: toxic relationship after something like that.
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Speaker 3: So it doesn't.
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Speaker 4: Necessarily always tie back to childhood, but it can quite often.
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Speaker 1: And these toxic relationships, you they don't have to be
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Speaker 1: I know a lot of the times they probably are
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Speaker 1: romantic relationships. But this could be a business relationship, a
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Speaker 1: close friend, some kind of family member. But if we're
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Speaker 1: looking at romantic relationships because the family, like some of
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Speaker 1: these things you can't get out of. You might not
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Speaker 1: be able to quit your job, you might not be
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Speaker 1: able to you know, you can't leave your family.
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Speaker 5: You can, but you know.
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Speaker 1: But if we're looking at the romantic, once we like
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Speaker 1: engage sexually with someone, then that like if you already
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Speaker 1: know something's off, because I've had I've had friends where
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Speaker 1: they're like, you know, I couldn't really they put my
12:00
Speaker 1: finger on it, like I gave them the benefit of
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Speaker 1: the doubt and they weren't huge things. But when you
12:05
Speaker 1: have that component there they were, they stuck along a
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Speaker 1: lot longer because now they had this intimate connection with them,
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Speaker 1: and so it was harder to get out. But then
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Speaker 1: when they finally get out, which might be years later,
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Speaker 1: they were like I felt like almost like whiplash, like
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Speaker 1: it was good and then it wasn't, and then it
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Speaker 1: was good, and then I was always like, well, where
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Speaker 1: where do I stand with this person? Is that pretty common?
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Speaker 3: That's so common?
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Speaker 4: And I'm really glad that you brought that into the
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Speaker 4: conversation because yeah, so, I mean this is kind of
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Speaker 4: a mechanism of you know, trauma bonding that's talked a
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Speaker 4: lot about. You know, where there's this where there's an
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Speaker 4: there's a pattern of assurance and withdraw. Well, I mean
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Speaker 4: you shared a lot actually, and what you said, I
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Speaker 4: mean the first thing is that, yes, when we are
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Speaker 4: intimate with somebody and we're touching them and kissing them
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Speaker 4: and laying in bed with them, that we form an
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Speaker 4: attachment to that. And it's not just in her mind.
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Speaker 4: There's a psychobiological attachment. So your heartbreat actually starts to
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Speaker 4: sync with this person, your blood pressure, you secrete hormones
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Speaker 4: when they touch your skin, you know, So there's this
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Speaker 4: attachment system that develops, and then there's some form of withdraw,
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Speaker 4: you know, and so your body, it's in your body
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Speaker 4: that craves to re establish that connection.
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Speaker 3: And then you get assured again.
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Speaker 4: So then it's like, oh, I love you, I'm gonna
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Speaker 4: do all these things, We're going to fix this.
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Speaker 3: And then there's withdraw.
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Speaker 4: And so that pattern of assured assurance and withdraw, which
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Speaker 4: is very typical and toxic relationships, creates a very sort
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Speaker 4: of addictive, painful attachment to that person that's extremely difficult
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Speaker 4: to break. And this is what makes it so difficult
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Speaker 4: for people to even leave those relationships.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so does the toxic person like knowingly they do
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Speaker 1: they know that? Or is this subconscious or do they
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Speaker 1: know what they're doing with this withdrawal?
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Speaker 4: I think some of them know, and it's very conscious
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Speaker 4: and deliberate, especially if you're speaking about somebody that's more
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Speaker 4: manipulative and predatorial and exploitative, you know, that is narcissistic
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Speaker 4: or sociopathic. You know, they they will learn, you know,
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Speaker 4: they'll learn what provokes an emotional response in you, you know,
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Speaker 4: and they learn your insecurities and your weaknesses, and they
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Speaker 4: use those things to exploit you, you.
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Speaker 3: Know, to drive your behavior.
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Speaker 4: And then there may be somebody that may just have
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Speaker 4: their you know, they may not be narcissistic or like
14:45
Speaker 4: a sociopath or something, but maybe they have an avoidant
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Speaker 4: attachment that is not resolved, you know, And it's not
14:52
Speaker 4: necessarily that they're intending on being malicious or hurtful to you,
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Speaker 4: but they're just playing out their own painful, you know, pattern,
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Speaker 4: and so you know, or maybe they have an untreated addiction,
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Speaker 4: you know, and so it's it's not but this can
15:08
Speaker 4: still be very painful for the person that's in relationship
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Speaker 4: with them, and it may not be you know, possible
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Speaker 4: to have a healthy partnership with that person if they're
15:19
Speaker 4: not committed to doing their own healing and work. And
15:23
Speaker 4: so yeah, I think sometimes it's conscious and intentional, and
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Speaker 4: sometimes it's not.
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Speaker 2: In your opinion, do you feel like people that are
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Speaker 2: the toxic one, whatever that is for that person, do
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Speaker 2: you feel like people can truly change and show up
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Speaker 2: in a healthy and whole way.
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Speaker 4: I mean, this is my personal opinion. Sure, I believe
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Speaker 4: that pretty much. I believe in healing, you know, and
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Speaker 4: I believe it's possible for people to heal.
15:56
Speaker 3: Even now.
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Speaker 4: You know, it's like you're seeing more and more self
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Speaker 4: aware narcissists, you know, who have accepted the diagnosis and
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Speaker 4: are trying to become better. And these things all exist
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Speaker 4: on a spectrum too, you know, narcissism, any sort of
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Speaker 4: mental health issue exists on a spectrum. But I also
16:20
Speaker 4: think that this way of thinking that everybody can heal,
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Speaker 4: you know, potentially can get a person that may be
16:27
Speaker 4: in relationship with one of these people into trouble. You know.
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Speaker 3: It's like, can somebody who's addicted to something heal? Yeah,
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Speaker 3: you know they can heal, But.
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Speaker 4: If you're taking responsibility, you know, a person in relationship
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Speaker 4: with someone like that has to have extremely strict, strict boundaries,
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Speaker 4: you know, and oh understand that they that that person
16:52
Speaker 4: has to take one hundred percent responsibility for their own healing,
16:57
Speaker 4: and the reasons for them wanting to heal the heel
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Speaker 4: has to be self motivated because you know, sometimes what
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Speaker 4: toxic partners will do is they'll promise to do the work,
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Speaker 4: but it's oftentimes for self motivating reasons to get you
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Speaker 4: back in relationship with them or to prevent you from leaving.
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Speaker 4: And they may do things for a little while but
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Speaker 4: then not stick with it. So it's like will would
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Speaker 4: this person do this on their own? Would they pursue
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Speaker 4: their own healing if you weren't even in the picture,
17:28
Speaker 4: you know, if you left them and they did you know,
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Speaker 4: or is that something that just falls short. So yeah,
17:36
Speaker 4: it's a it's a gamble. It's a gamble to stick
17:40
Speaker 4: it out with somebody that may have some of these issues,
17:43
Speaker 4: especially when there's been a history of trauma and betrayal
17:47
Speaker 4: that they've already been taking you through for a long time.
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Speaker 4: And sometimes even in those situations, because then there may
17:56
Speaker 4: become there's maybe so much emphasis on what's wrong with
17:59
Speaker 4: this other person right, or like what.
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Speaker 3: They need for their own healing.
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Speaker 4: The women that I work with aren't able to ask
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Speaker 4: themselves if.
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Speaker 3: They could even stay in relationship with this person truly
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Speaker 3: without you know, while being.
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Speaker 4: Able to trust them and to feel safe, even if
18:21
Speaker 4: this person did the work. If that makes sense, you know,
18:25
Speaker 4: it's like they you know, sometimes we're affected by things
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Speaker 4: more than we realize, being cheated on, being lied to,
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Speaker 4: being betrayed.
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Speaker 3: But then there's so much emphasis on this.
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Speaker 4: Other person getting them help whatever, that they're not really
18:41
Speaker 4: able to reflect on can I stay with this person
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Speaker 4: and be healthy myself?
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Speaker 3: After something like this.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, it's that's such a good point
18:54
Speaker 2: if you can really forgive and if it's actually the
18:57
Speaker 2: right decision for you.
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Speaker 1: So you mentioned on your Instagram that a lot of
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Speaker 1: these toxic you know, relationships, whoever the toxic partner is
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Speaker 1: male or female, but they in this post you talked
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Speaker 1: about high achieving women. How high achieving women get into
19:19
Speaker 1: some of these toxic relationship Why is that?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, why do high achieving women specifically get in these
19:27
Speaker 4: types of toxic relationships? Right?
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Speaker 3: So yeah, so this is partially through.
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Speaker 4: Partially came into my awareness through my own healing journey
19:39
Speaker 4: because I had had an experience with toxic relationships and
19:43
Speaker 4: when I went to go get help, I was diagnosed
19:45
Speaker 4: as codependent. And so in this therapist was like one
19:49
Speaker 4: of the top psychotherapists in the city of Chicago, you know,
19:53
Speaker 4: highly esteemed everything. It was like, in forty five minutes,
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Speaker 4: she told me that I was codependent and sent me
19:59
Speaker 4: a with the book Codependent No More and told me
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Speaker 4: to read it.
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Speaker 3: And so I read this book and I was like,
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Speaker 3: this does.
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Speaker 4: Not sound like me. I know for sure, this does
20:07
Speaker 4: not sound like me. And then through doing some of
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Speaker 4: my own research, specifically by the woman. This woman by
20:14
Speaker 4: the name of Sandra Brown. She is a psychotherapist who
20:19
Speaker 4: has focused exclusively on who these women are that get
20:23
Speaker 4: into these relationships, which is unusual because most people focus
20:27
Speaker 4: on who the narcissists are, who the toxic people are,
20:30
Speaker 4: and they know them inside and out, but like, who's
20:33
Speaker 4: this person getting into relationship with them? And so according
20:38
Speaker 4: to studies, seventy percent of women that getting these relationships
20:42
Speaker 4: are not narcissists, I'm sorry, are not codependent. Are not codependent,
20:47
Speaker 4: but they do have these certain elevated personality traits.
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Speaker 3: So there are shared characteristics.
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Speaker 4: One of them being being achievement oriented, tending towards leadership positions,
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Speaker 4: tend to be very agreeable, so highly agreeable, hyper empathetic,
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Speaker 4: a lot of tolerance, cooperative.
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Speaker 3: Seeking, harmony seeking.
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Speaker 4: Problem solvers, and so this combination of personality traits makes
21:17
Speaker 4: you more willing to try to understand the other person,
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Speaker 4: you know, why are they doing this, and have compassion
21:27
Speaker 4: and empathy for them, but also try to fix it,
21:31
Speaker 4: try to resolve it. Many of these women, there are
21:33
Speaker 4: a lot of people relying on them, family, at work,
21:38
Speaker 4: and so this combination of traits works really well and
21:42
Speaker 4: healthy professional and family relationships, but in toxic relationships can
21:47
Speaker 4: be exploited and cause you to stick around for a
21:50
Speaker 4: lot longer than would be of your best interest.
21:54
Speaker 1: Okay, so then like the people pleaser, oh, that's going
21:59
Speaker 1: to fall into the web of potentially like you know, forgiving,
22:07
Speaker 1: letting their boundaries or not having strong boundaries. But does
22:10
Speaker 1: the toxic individual in this I'm sure will vary. But
22:15
Speaker 1: if we're moving like toxic into like narcissism, do they
22:20
Speaker 1: seek out these high achievers like they're not or are they
22:23
Speaker 1: seeking out like, you know, the people that are I
22:28
Speaker 1: don't know, not high achievers or that have a ton
22:31
Speaker 1: of issues?
22:33
Speaker 4: So they I mean, if you think of somebody that's
22:35
Speaker 4: a full blown narcissist and has a grandiose sense of self,
22:40
Speaker 4: you know, usually they're targeting somebody that is going to
22:46
Speaker 4: elevate their their self.
22:48
Speaker 5: Image, right this makes sense?
22:52
Speaker 4: Yep? Yeah, So they're they're going to look for somebody
22:54
Speaker 4: that that falls in alignment with their own mis represented
22:58
Speaker 4: sense of self.
22:59
Speaker 3: You know.
22:59
Speaker 4: So it's going to be somebody that is strong or independent,
23:03
Speaker 4: or has traits that they want, or has financial means
23:08
Speaker 4: that they want, or access to contacts, or a lifestyle
23:14
Speaker 4: that they feel like complements the lifestyle that they want.
23:18
Speaker 1: Do you see more I know you treat both male
23:21
Speaker 1: and female, but do you see more females? And is
23:25
Speaker 1: that because females are more likely to seek treatment than
23:28
Speaker 1: males or what is the dynamic there? The percentage that
23:31
Speaker 1: you would guess.
23:34
Speaker 4: So, there's definitely some differences between men and women that
23:37
Speaker 4: experience toxic relationships and one of them, just like you
23:40
Speaker 4: just asked, for sure, men are less likely to seek help.
23:46
Speaker 4: Men are also less likely to It takes men a
23:49
Speaker 4: lot longer to realize that they're being abused than women men,
23:55
Speaker 4: but when men realize they're being abused, they're more likely
23:58
Speaker 4: to leave and mean it, where it takes women usually
24:02
Speaker 4: on average, seven times to leave before they finally do.
24:06
Speaker 5: Wow.
24:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's there's definitely some some differences there, And
24:11
Speaker 4: there's also differences in how narcissism tends to present itself
24:14
Speaker 4: in men and women. You know, so well, men that
24:19
Speaker 4: are and this isn't always the case, but men that
24:23
Speaker 4: are narcissistic tend to be more grandiose, you know, where
24:26
Speaker 4: they kind of like have an air of arrogance to
24:29
Speaker 4: them that you can that you can see, you know,
24:32
Speaker 4: and be very charming and charismatic. And where women that
24:37
Speaker 4: are narcissists tend to be have like higher amounts of
24:41
Speaker 4: depression or or mood issues anxiety depression, and their forms
24:47
Speaker 4: of manipulation tend to be long game manipulative strategies right
24:54
Speaker 4: where they're like thinking of these long haul kind of plans.
24:59
Speaker 4: So those are some of the key differences.
25:02
Speaker 1: So if we if we look at narcissism and we
25:06
Speaker 1: we like, there's the grandiose, but then there's the covert,
25:11
Speaker 1: and then is covert different than malignant? How many variations
25:17
Speaker 1: are there?
25:21
Speaker 4: I think there's like four different I'm actually not certain
25:24
Speaker 4: how many variations there are of narcissists.
25:29
Speaker 1: But the grandiose is is the most common. Yeah, m
25:34
Speaker 1: but is that the most dangerous too, you would say,
25:40
Speaker 1: I don't.
25:40
Speaker 4: Know if I could say which type of narcissists would
25:42
Speaker 4: be the most dangerous. You know, I think there are
25:47
Speaker 4: are narcissistic people that don't actually create as much harm
25:52
Speaker 4: to others then, and just like all of the other
25:56
Speaker 4: mental health issues that exist on a spectrum as well,
25:59
Speaker 4: you know, And so yeah, that's a good point.
26:01
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, So what is the if we talk about
26:08
Speaker 6: you mentioned attachment ambivalence, What what does that mean?
26:15
Speaker 4: So are you speaking of the ambivalence cycle? Yes, okay,
26:21
Speaker 4: So this is this, this is relating to what we
26:25
Speaker 4: were talking about earlier, that when you become attached to somebody,
26:29
Speaker 4: you develop a system of attachment and that it's psycho biological.
26:33
Speaker 4: And so when there's a relationship trauma. And so there
26:37
Speaker 4: are many different types of traumas we can experience in life.
26:41
Speaker 4: You can get into a car accident, you could you know,
26:44
Speaker 4: be assaulted, to be attacked. A relationship trauma is its
26:47
Speaker 4: own specific type of trauma. This is where somebody that
26:53
Speaker 4: is close to you, somebody that you are relying for
26:57
Speaker 4: for safety and security in your life, violates the agreement
27:03
Speaker 4: that you have you know, with them.
27:06
Speaker 3: That's what causes that trauma.
27:08
Speaker 4: So if you have an agreement of monogamy and then
27:11
Speaker 4: there's infidelity, that would be an example of a relationship trauma.
27:15
Speaker 4: And so that effects or impacts that psycho biological system
27:20
Speaker 4: of attachment. You know, it doesn't just affect your mind,
27:23
Speaker 4: you know, or your thoughts, It affects you theologically as well.
27:28
Speaker 4: And so then there's it's almost like a division happens
27:32
Speaker 4: in the nervous system. So and what and that division,
27:39
Speaker 4: there's like some kind of like two parts to you
27:41
Speaker 4: now all of a sudden, and each of those parts
27:43
Speaker 4: has a different safety imperative, a safety imperative or a
27:48
Speaker 4: belief that if I do this, I'm going to be safe.
27:51
Speaker 4: And so the one part is like reconcile, fix the relationship,
27:56
Speaker 4: recreate my connection with this person, and the other part
28:00
Speaker 4: is like get a run away.
28:02
Speaker 3: This person's dangerous.
28:05
Speaker 4: And so each of those safety imperatives there's actually a
28:08
Speaker 4: different firing mechanisms in the nervous system that happen when
28:12
Speaker 4: either of those is activated, a different emotional state, different
28:17
Speaker 4: beliefs and thoughts that happen, and you're vacillating between those
28:21
Speaker 4: two extremes. So this is what when there's a betrayal
28:24
Speaker 4: and relationship. When women go through this cycle, they're thinking,
28:29
Speaker 4: I need to fix this. Their lived experience of this
28:33
Speaker 4: is like I want to fix this. I can't lose them,
28:36
Speaker 4: I love them, I want them back. You know, maybe
28:38
Speaker 4: we can, you know, get through this together, and then
28:41
Speaker 4: flip to this other side of I hate them, or
28:46
Speaker 4: you know.
28:46
Speaker 3: How could they have done this to me? Get out
28:48
Speaker 3: of my life? I don't ever want to see you again.
28:52
Speaker 4: And you're going through these two different extremes, and that
28:55
Speaker 4: can happen in a twenty four hour cycle or a
28:58
Speaker 4: week cycle, and just you could be stuck in that
29:01
Speaker 4: for years. And so then when you do decide that
29:05
Speaker 4: you're going to go and cut this relationship out, you've
29:09
Speaker 4: kind of broken away from that one part of you
29:12
Speaker 4: that wants to reconcile and fix or you're trying to
29:15
Speaker 4: resist it, and it can be very difficult, you know,
29:18
Speaker 4: just why oftentimes no contact from a toxic relationship is
29:23
Speaker 4: you know, compared to coming off of a drug, or
29:25
Speaker 4: it's compared to an addiction of some kind.
29:28
Speaker 3: It can feel that way.
29:29
Speaker 5: That makes sense, How it does affect you physiologic like, yeah, physiologically?
29:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
29:38
Speaker 1: What's the most common manipulative tactic used in these relationships?
29:43
Speaker 1: Or what's a few of them? How do we get manipulated?
29:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a good one. See, well, this is
29:57
Speaker 3: one of them.
29:58
Speaker 4: I don't know if I could think of off the
30:00
Speaker 4: top of my head what the most common one is.
30:02
Speaker 4: But one of them is a use of fear, you know,
30:05
Speaker 4: so the partner going into a total rage, which can
30:09
Speaker 4: be really you know, scary for the person that's experiencing that,
30:14
Speaker 4: which can be a form of manipulation. So it's it's
30:16
Speaker 4: a type of coercion, you know, and then that might
30:20
Speaker 4: get a person into a pattern of hypervigilance because they're
30:23
Speaker 4: trying to stop their partner from having this type of reaction.
30:30
Speaker 4: Another form of manipulation is focusing on your insecurities.
30:37
Speaker 6: You know.
30:38
Speaker 3: So we all have insecurities, right, I mean, we all
30:41
Speaker 3: have them.
30:42
Speaker 4: A toxic partner is able to sort of identify what
30:45
Speaker 4: those insecurities are and sort of stick the knife in them,
30:48
Speaker 4: you know, and exploit them.
30:50
Speaker 3: So, I don't know, maybe.
30:52
Speaker 4: There's a woman she's really successful, but she has imposter
30:56
Speaker 4: syndrome because maybe she didn't get some certain type of degree,
31:00
Speaker 4: you know. A toxic partner will recognize that and sort
31:05
Speaker 4: of undermine her performance or her behavior because she's without
31:09
Speaker 4: that degree, you know. And so suddenly she's feeling more
31:12
Speaker 4: insecure about herself. So that that's another very common manipulation tactic.
31:19
Speaker 4: Another one is accusing you of things that they're.
31:22
Speaker 1: Doing, you know, so they're ratting themselves out. But they're
31:28
Speaker 1: saying it to you that you're the one doing it.
31:31
Speaker 3: You're the one doing it.
31:32
Speaker 4: So if they're cheating on you, then they're starting to
31:36
Speaker 4: question where you're going, what you're doing, who you're spending
31:39
Speaker 4: time with, and it really can throw a person off
31:45
Speaker 4: their trail, you know. Essentially, gift giving can even be
31:49
Speaker 4: a form of manipulation, So that's called the charm offence.
31:53
Speaker 4: It's like they spent the weekend with somebody else, they
31:55
Speaker 4: come back with a bracelet that they're giving you, or
31:58
Speaker 4: they've done something really hurtful, and then they give you
32:02
Speaker 4: something that you want. So that could be time spent
32:05
Speaker 4: together or a place that you always wanted to go,
32:08
Speaker 4: or a physical gift, you know, as a way to
32:11
Speaker 4: sort of distract you from the painful thing that they've done.
32:15
Speaker 1: Okay, so outside of that tactic, then we also have
32:19
Speaker 1: like gas lighting that would come into that was in
32:23
Speaker 1: the Triple Blow, you know, betrayal lying about it, but
32:27
Speaker 1: gas lighting of kind of turning around and acting like
32:31
Speaker 1: you're the crazy one, right.
32:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yeah, So the Triple blow, thank you remembering
32:39
Speaker 4: reminding me? So yeah, so the first thing is like
32:42
Speaker 4: the thing that was hurtful, So the traumatic incident, so
32:46
Speaker 4: whether that was you know, the ghosting or a rage
32:50
Speaker 4: or infidelity or financial abuse. And then the second is
32:54
Speaker 4: the gas lighting that goes along with it, you know.
32:57
Speaker 4: And so we're always trying to sort of de deflect,
33:01
Speaker 4: you know, you try to have a direct conversation with
33:04
Speaker 4: them to resolve it.
33:06
Speaker 3: They're going to try to deflect the conversation to.
33:09
Speaker 4: Something else and turn it around on you somehow that
33:14
Speaker 4: your emotional response is the problem, not what's actually happened.
33:20
Speaker 3: So oh my.
33:20
Speaker 4: Gosh, you wow, you are so angry. You know, I'm
33:25
Speaker 4: worried about you. Like do you always get this upset?
33:30
Speaker 4: You know, and then you're like trying to explain your anger,
33:33
Speaker 4: trying to explain you know, that this justifies being this
33:37
Speaker 4: upset and you're not talking about the thing that's on
33:40
Speaker 4: the table that actually happened.
33:42
Speaker 1: So deflecting and gas lighting kind of can go hand
33:46
Speaker 1: in hand.
33:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, there's different types of gas lighting, you know,
33:50
Speaker 4: but essentially at the root of it is it's trying
33:53
Speaker 4: to make you doubt your own sense of reality, you know,
33:56
Speaker 4: your own perception of things. And so there can be
34:00
Speaker 4: gaslighting that maybe that happens in a conversation. Like deflection,
34:04
Speaker 4: there can also be sort of long game gaslighting tactics
34:09
Speaker 4: where you know, let's say, I you know, I'm slowly
34:14
Speaker 4: you know, discrediting your perception on something. So one of
34:20
Speaker 4: my recent students shared a story where her and her
34:24
Speaker 4: ex partner, they were in a car with a family,
34:27
Speaker 4: with her whole family around arguing by passing back and
34:32
Speaker 4: forth a telephone on writing notes to each other, and
34:36
Speaker 4: so he actually changed some of the things that she
34:40
Speaker 4: said to him, screenshoted it, and then later tried to
34:46
Speaker 4: convince her that she said these things.
34:50
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, so that makes you feel crazy. I can only.
34:55
Speaker 4: Imagine absolutely, you know, especially when you know there's been
35:00
Speaker 4: trust establish right, I mean, you trust the people that
35:03
Speaker 4: you're in close relationship with, you know, and so then
35:07
Speaker 4: somebody starts to do these things to you. It can
35:10
Speaker 4: be extremely confusing, which is why, you know, coming out
35:14
Speaker 4: of it, there's a really strong need for validation, you know.
35:18
Speaker 4: And if you've had friends that have been in these
35:21
Speaker 4: relationships and they keep talking about it with you, and
35:24
Speaker 4: like you'll notice that, you know, maybe your friends that
35:27
Speaker 4: have been in these relationships, they even ask like, isn't
35:31
Speaker 4: that messed up? That he did that or she did that.
35:33
Speaker 4: Isn't that you know, crazy? Or like, wasn't he You know,
35:36
Speaker 4: they're they're they're seeking this validation from you, is what
35:39
Speaker 4: it's what it really is. They don't believe themselves anymore.
35:43
Speaker 1: And that's part of kind of the healing. So if
35:48
Speaker 1: somebody were to come to you and they're like, Okay, Monica,
35:51
Speaker 1: I need I need help. I've been in this toxic relationship,
35:55
Speaker 1: what does that look like? I mean, obviously the amount
35:58
Speaker 1: of time is going to depend on the truck and
36:01
Speaker 1: what the person is able to give. But what does
36:03
Speaker 1: that look like for therapy when you take someone on,
36:06
Speaker 1: is it cognitive therapy or do you use any anything
36:11
Speaker 1: with that or what does that look like?
36:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, for starters, it's like it's it's
36:17
Speaker 4: identifying where the person is in the process. And so
36:21
Speaker 4: I work with somebody very specific. So I work with
36:24
Speaker 4: somebody who's decided that they want to leave the relationship
36:28
Speaker 4: and they're taking actions to do so. So they're not
36:30
Speaker 4: living with this person deciding if they're going to stay
36:34
Speaker 4: or leave. They have made that decision to leave, and
36:36
Speaker 4: ideally they're not living with their partner anymore. Although I
36:39
Speaker 4: will work with people that are going through divorce and
36:42
Speaker 4: maybe they're separated living in the same home.
36:44
Speaker 3: So that's the person that I work with.
36:47
Speaker 4: Making the decision if you're going to stay your leave
36:50
Speaker 4: is a totally different problem, you know, not necessarily where
36:57
Speaker 4: I personally focus. So first, so that's the first thing
37:01
Speaker 4: you've decided that you want to leave. And then I
37:03
Speaker 4: have an initial three month program and it's a combination
37:08
Speaker 4: of a lot of different things. That's there's an educational
37:12
Speaker 4: three month program that they go through that's like videos
37:16
Speaker 4: and assessments and homework that they do that they turn
37:19
Speaker 4: into me and really am taking them through a journey.
37:22
Speaker 6: You know.
37:23
Speaker 3: The first part of that journey is really.
37:26
Speaker 4: Is validation, you know, is identification what you know, abuses
37:31
Speaker 4: took place, what betrayals took place, you know, why isn't
37:35
Speaker 4: this relationship healthy for you? And then the whole second,
37:40
Speaker 4: the whole eight weeks, is then redirecting focus towards.
37:44
Speaker 3: Yourself and so where we're you.
37:48
Speaker 4: Know, identifying if it's people pleasing you know, if it's
37:50
Speaker 4: hyper empathy, how do you manage that? Because you know,
37:54
Speaker 4: if you're like most of the women that get these
37:56
Speaker 4: relationships and you have hyper empathy that's not going anywhere, right,
38:00
Speaker 4: always being hyper empathetic, So how can you manage that
38:04
Speaker 4: in a healthy way? And then both the latter part
38:08
Speaker 4: of the program is now what do you want? You know,
38:11
Speaker 4: what do you want in your life going forward? And
38:13
Speaker 4: getting very clear about that vision. And so that's the
38:16
Speaker 4: virtual component. And then we have group coaching that I
38:20
Speaker 4: lead and then they work one on one with therapists
38:24
Speaker 4: that offer one on one sessions throughout the program. So
38:28
Speaker 4: that's my initial program, and then I have a year
38:31
Speaker 4: long program after that after you graduated that program.
38:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, you talk about the practices of healing, and I
38:41
Speaker 2: think we all know some of the main ones yoga, meditation.
38:45
Speaker 5: But tell me, I'm gonna say it wrong.
38:49
Speaker 2: Atcuvert A, Yes, and you talk about that and emotional
38:57
Speaker 2: release therapies, detoxification therapies, and somatic experiencing as some of
39:03
Speaker 2: your ways to heal someone. Yeah, so tell us about
39:09
Speaker 2: those because I feel like those are as common as.
39:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the others.
39:15
Speaker 5: Right.
39:15
Speaker 4: So the main you know, mainstream, mainstream models for helping
39:20
Speaker 4: somebody with some kind of a mental health issue is therapy, right,
39:26
Speaker 4: And so you see somebody once a week for an
39:29
Speaker 4: hour and you talk and there's no you know in
39:33
Speaker 4: between session, you know, tools or practices, and that's what
39:36
Speaker 4: you're doing. And so from you know, a somatic perspective.
39:42
Speaker 4: So that really when I say that, I'm talking about
39:45
Speaker 4: how trauma is stored in our body because that's actually
39:48
Speaker 4: where we store it.
39:49
Speaker 6: You know.
39:50
Speaker 3: It affects our nervous.
39:51
Speaker 4: System, and memory is even stored in our body. You
39:56
Speaker 4: can't really access that through talking, you know, and so
40:00
Speaker 4: you have to include the body.
40:03
Speaker 3: And healing from trauma.
40:05
Speaker 4: So we use different emotional processing techniques where we're including
40:10
Speaker 4: the body in that in that and so that those
40:12
Speaker 4: are sematic experiencing or somatic body work.
40:17
Speaker 3: As far as.
40:18
Speaker 4: The ir Veda goes, that would include so ir Veda
40:23
Speaker 4: is yoga sister science, so they come from the same history,
40:28
Speaker 4: the same system. They're considered to be right and left
40:31
Speaker 4: hands of the same body. Yoga and ir Veda they
40:34
Speaker 4: go together, and so that would include things like having
40:38
Speaker 4: a daily meditation practice, a daily movement practice, using herbs
40:44
Speaker 4: for your body type. So many women and men that
40:48
Speaker 4: go through this are exhausted, the cortosol levels are shot,
40:52
Speaker 4: you know, and so that that could manifest as fatigue,
40:56
Speaker 4: we gain you know, autoimmune issues, digestive issues. So we're
40:59
Speaker 4: using earth herbs, We're using dietary practices as well to
41:03
Speaker 4: help them to get back more physically agile in their body,
41:08
Speaker 4: as well as exercise. So I mean, exercise is going
41:11
Speaker 4: to help somebody come out of the fight or flight,
41:14
Speaker 4: you know response, but choosing exercises that are good for
41:17
Speaker 4: their body.
41:18
Speaker 5: You know.
41:18
Speaker 4: So some people may run miles and miles and miles
41:22
Speaker 4: to escape their life and may need more stillness practices,
41:26
Speaker 4: if that's yoga or bodies where somebody else may just
41:30
Speaker 4: be having a hard time getting out of bed every
41:32
Speaker 4: morning and so to tell them to do cardios just
41:35
Speaker 4: too much of a stretch. So maybe it's you know,
41:36
Speaker 4: walking across you know, walking around the block. Those would
41:39
Speaker 4: be some arivetic ways of looking at health and perspectives
41:43
Speaker 4: that we include in the program. And then we also
41:47
Speaker 4: do a lot with something called integrative somatic parts work,
41:53
Speaker 4: and so that's, uh, that's a practice again that that
41:57
Speaker 4: includes the body, in in your in your healing, and
42:01
Speaker 4: how emotional trauma stored in the body. And it's a
42:04
Speaker 4: combination of kind of exploring things intellectually but then also
42:09
Speaker 4: including the body and the healing process.
42:13
Speaker 5: That's so important I feel like with healing.
42:16
Speaker 2: So that's incredible that you include it in your whole
42:19
Speaker 2: process working with you. So why don't you tell us
42:22
Speaker 2: where people can find you if they want to work
42:25
Speaker 2: with you. And you have the three month coaching program,
42:29
Speaker 2: and then what else do you offer?
42:34
Speaker 4: So I have a three month coaching program and that's
42:37
Speaker 4: definitely more of the close proximity, a lot of individual intention.
42:41
Speaker 3: Deep deep dive.
42:43
Speaker 4: I also have a self study program that where I
42:47
Speaker 4: just offer a one group coaching call once a month
42:49
Speaker 4: there and it's mostly self guided. And then I have
42:53
Speaker 4: a year long program, but that's for the graduates of
42:56
Speaker 4: the three month program. You can learn about about all
43:00
Speaker 4: that probably just go to my social media channels, search
43:03
Speaker 4: my name, I am Monica Yourwood. I am Monica Yourwood,
43:07
Speaker 4: and then in my biolink there's a link to my
43:11
Speaker 4: offerings and also a free masterclass that's about an hour
43:14
Speaker 4: long too. That's usually a good place for people to start,
43:18
Speaker 4: just to see if you can relate to the material
43:22
Speaker 4: that's being taught. And then also you know my approach,
43:25
Speaker 4: and then I offer a free breakthrough session at the
43:28
Speaker 4: end of that masterclass.
43:30
Speaker 3: Yeah that's great.
43:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you so much for sharing all of
43:35
Speaker 2: your expertise and knowledge with us. This is a really
43:38
Speaker 2: important subject and I think a difficult one to navigate,
43:41
Speaker 2: so we appreciate you being on the body Pod.
43:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Really cool.
43:46
Speaker 1: Thank you, Monica, thanks for listening.
43:51
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
43:54
Speaker 2: five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
43:58
Speaker 1: Until next time,