Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Riley O’Brien question marks, Alec Burleson extension coming? Quinn Mathews' breakout potential

Transcript

Riley O’Brien question marks, Alec Burleson extension coming? Quinn Mathews' breakout potential · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. Jim Hayes alongside
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Lance Lynn, who just got back from Italy.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Ciao, Lance. Ciao. I got to ask you, how was it?
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: It was a good trip. It was a good trip. Yeah,
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: we had a good time. The Vatican, the Coliseum, you know,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: it was beautiful. And then we went to the Amalfi Coast, too.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: So we got to see it all. A little bit of,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: you know, a little bit of countryside there with the train, too.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: So if no one's ever been over there, That's a
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: good place to start, those two.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Best meal you had over there. Tell me what it was.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, man. It's crazy the way that the courses go
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: over there. I think that it feels like you have
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: to order a pasta for an appetizer everywhere you go.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: So it made it feel like we were eating the
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: dinner first. But I had one of the best lasagnas
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: I've ever had in my life over there. And I
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: wasn't expecting it to be one of the better ones.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: When it showed up, it was like it was... like
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: a starter plate, small plate. And I was like, okay,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: this is, and I was like, all right, this, this
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: place right here. So that was one of my, uh,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: my favorite, uh, favorite meals over there, but I didn't
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: have a bad one.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I know that. I'm sure you didn't. Welcome back. All right.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Let's talk some Cardinals. Uh, the Cardinals beat the giants, uh,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: last night, game two tonight. I want to ask you
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: about a guy we've talked a little bit about before, but, uh,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Riley O'Brien, he got saved 37 last night, but there
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: was drama. Now he's, he's got great stuff, right? His
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: stuff is nasty, nasty, nasty.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: He's not a kid. He's 30, right? But he's blown
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: eight saves and there's always drama.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: So my question is, what do you do with this
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: guy to make less drama?
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: You hope that the year of doing it will help
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: next year be less drama, if that makes sense. Um,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: the more you get it under your belt, the better
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: you're going to have. But every closer loves a little drama.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: So I think you're going to have to realize that
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: no matter who's back there, they like the drama. They
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: like giving up some hits. They like loading the bases
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So you're going to have to
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: deal with that. Whoever the closer is, I'm hoping that
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: the full year of doing it and then taking that
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: in the off season and be able to take a
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: deep breath and then kind of build off of this
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: year for him will be maybe less drama at times or,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: or less unnecessary drama. And that's the number one thing
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: that all relievers want to, you know, get away from
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: is don't hurt yourself and walks and get yourself in
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: bad counts. So like I said, the stuff's there. He
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: has the saves. I think the year of doing it
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: will help with the drama. But I also, to be
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: honest with you, if we're looking at, if you're looking
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: at a playoff caliber team, you got a guy that
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: you can put in there in the ninth. Now you've
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: seen what he's done with the saves and all that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: but you also need someone that can spare him and
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: maybe take some of that burden off of him will
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: help with some of the drama too. So I think
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: they've got a piece that's a nice piece. I don't
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: think it's a piece when you put together a, let's
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: say you're putting together a playoff roster that we're going
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: for it. If you have someone else that you can
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: slide in there with him, maybe a dual closing situation
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: or a guy that can give him some help or
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: take the burden off a little bit, you definitely have
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: to do that. So, there's multiple ways you can go,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: but all in all, I think if you look up
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the year and you say, Hey,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: he has 30 plus saves and, you know, and made
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: an all-star team, you're going to be like, Hey, that
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: was a hell of a year for him. So I
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: think we need to realize it's also his first full
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: year in the big leagues, even though his age.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I'm with you.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And no one's perfect. Even the all-time great closers, right?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Had bad stretches. I was talking to Dusty Blake about
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the challenges facing O'Brien. Cause that first year as a
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: closer where it's, the highest leverage situation after the highest
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: leverage situation. And he said, a lot of it is psychological.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Like the body's fine. The stuff is fine, but there
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: is sort of a mental toll and guys got to
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: push through it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So I guess that's part of the equation.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then like, let's be honest, they're doing it
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: in a way and he's having to punch through the
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: interior where they're not in it really. You know what
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: I'm saying? There's not a whole lot of like, Hey,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: We've got to be ready for the playoffs, blah, blah, blah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: and this and that. Let him finish. Let him do
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: his thing. And then next year he'll be able to
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: build off of. I think from start to finish, this
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: is his first full year in the big leagues, give
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: or take. I mean, like as a true guy. So
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: that alone is a different mental toll, especially when it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: every situation he's been in is a levered situation this year. So, yes,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: we're at a point where everybody's tired. especially when you're
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: like your first year really doing it and doing it
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: at the back end and leverage situations it it wears
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: on you so i think all in all they're in
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: a good spot with them what they've done with him
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: this year and what they've been able to accomplish is
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: is huge not only for him but for the team
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: because it gives you a good guy to to build
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: the bullpen around of in the offseason and have a
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: have kind of a pillar in there and then now
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: you need a couple You know, the best teams in
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: baseball have three guys that they can go to in
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: the back end at any situation. You know, 7, 8, 9, boom.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: The Cardinals, you know, they have one. They had JoJo
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: that they liked at one point. But it shows you
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: what you have to have. You have to have three
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: of those caliber guys to be a playoff team. And
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: they've let one kind of blossom this year. And I
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: think he'll be even better for it next year. And,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: you know, they're in a good spot moving forward. And
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I like what they've done, all in all, letting these
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: guys kind of fill out what they're capable of.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And part of the fun of watching the team now
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: is it's sort of a peek into the future. Last night,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Quinn Matthews pitched six and two thirds.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Gave it one run. 8K is just two walks.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I think Dusty said they'd like to see him pound
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the strike zone a little bit more, but there's no
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: question his stuff plays, right? He's got a repertoire, a
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: unique arsenal. What do you see in Quinn Matthews?
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I think you're just seeing a guy who needs to
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: get accustomed to the major league game. You know, just
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: like you said, you have to get outs within the
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: strike zone. You have to get swing and miss within
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: the strike zone. I think that's what Dusty's alluding to is, okay,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: it's fun to get chase. It's fun to do all
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: these things, but if you don't throw enough quality strikes
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: and don't get enough swing and misses in the strike zone,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: that's where your walks and stuff will escalate. And that's
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: when you get yourself in bad counts. Um, if he
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: gets himself in good counts, figures out how he can
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: get strike one and strike two and get to the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: strikeout count without trying to get chase early in counts, um,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: He's going to be fine. I think Dusty was just
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: telling you, hey, we've got to figure out how to
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: get 0-1 and we've got to figure out how to
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: get 0-2 as fast as possible and stay away from
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: 2-0 counts and 2-1 counts because those are hitters' counts
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: that can do damage. So that's the learning philosophy. When
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: you're in the minor leagues and you have good stuff
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: like he does, you can get away with being behind hitters.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: You really can because they're undisciplined. They swing at everything.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: They don't really have an approach. In the big leagues,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: the better teams have better approaches and They'll wait you out.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: They'll do certain things. So that's going to be the
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: next step for them. I think that's what Dusty was
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: alluding to. The stuff's there. We can't always rely on
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the stuff. We've got to go get strike one, strike two,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: so then we can let the stuff play. Because the
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: more you throw strikes, the more of a swing move
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: they'll get into, the better counts you'll be in, the
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: better success you'll have.
• 7:39
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• 7:42
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• 7:43
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• 7:46
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• 7:49
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• 8:40
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I think the one cardinal that is interesting gaining a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: lot of attention right now is Leo Bernal. Now, last night,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: he was the on-the-field interview. He had three hits in
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the ballgame. And first of all, English is not his
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: first language, but he did it in English, so tip
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: of the cap to him.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, you're in front of a camera, you've
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: got a microphone.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: But he seems very comfortable being Leo Bernal. And the
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: cool thing was that Yachty came from the dugout to
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: watch his post-game interview. Like, Yachty is right there. First
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of all, that puts more pressure on the kid. You
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: could see he was smiling because he knew Yachty was
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: right there. But this is a young guy, has played
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: in 13 big league games, already has 14 RBIs.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I mentioned three hits last night.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And behind the plate, he looks like a finished product. Like,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: there's always growing pains. I'm sure we'll see a couple
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: along the way. Cannon of an arm, looks very comfortable
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: working with the pitchers. What do the Cardinals have, do
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: you think, in Leo Bernal? Is he already the guy,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: do you think, possibly?
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, it could be. I think you're looking at,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: like you said, the interview and doing everything that he's
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: supposed to do to try to, you know, the English
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: and all that, that shows you that he wants to
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: be what he's supposed to be. be, if that makes sense.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: He's not shying away from anything. And that's always the
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: fun part of seeing young kids come up is there's
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: not a, you know, you don't want to see an arrogance,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: but you want to see a confidence, right? I think
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: he's confident in the way that he knows how to
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: play baseball. I think you're seeing a guy that knows
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: what he's capable of. at a young age and being
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: young in the major leagues. And that usually breeds success
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: as you go, especially early success helps a lot of
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: that stuff too. He's got Yachty. He's got different guys
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: around him that are going to be able to help
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: him with the ins and outs of catching every day
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: and doing stuff like that. But right now, everything that
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: you see is nothing but positive. So when you say, hey,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: as a guy, if you're telling me that worst case scenario,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: we've got a guy that can catch 82 yards, you know, or,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: you know, we got a half a seat or, you know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: half a time catcher. That's, that's plenty with what he's
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: got going on there. And if he can catch 120
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: to 140, then man, we got something special. If we
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: can have a nine, 900 plus OPS, 300 plus catcher
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: that can catch and throw and guys like to throw too.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Those are the, those are the ones that are very
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: hard to find. So if he becomes that, they've got
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: something really special.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: And how much of a plus is it to have
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Yachty right there?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Look, it seems to me, I'm not speaking for Yachty,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: that Yachty has taken a special interest in this young
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: guy because I guess he likes the way that the
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: kid goes about it, but how much of a plus
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: is that to have Yachty around all the catchers?
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: If Yachty is staying around for your post-game interview, he's
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: taken a liking to you quite a bit. So that's
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: a positive, not only for him, but for the whole organization, um,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: that there's something that's there, there's something there, you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: it's a, obviously we have to wait and see in
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: this game to see what he turns into, um, you know,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: what the work ethics like, what the things that need
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: to happen to keep progressing in this game. Um, but
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: you know, your first, your first stint so far has
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: been a huge success. Seems like Yachty's really enjoying what
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: he's seen. And that means he's really enjoying what he's
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: seen between, uh, batting practice and game preparation and all
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: the other things that people can't see. If Yachty's sticking
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: around for, for post games, that means he's liking everything
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: else he sees and he's, and he's helping, you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: make sure that that finished product is what it needs
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: to be. And I'm liking, I'm liking what I'm hearing. If,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: if that's the, the, what Yachty's taking to, if that
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: makes sense, if Yachty's taking to you like that, you're
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: in a good spot.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Lance Lynn called Thomas and JC a ball player, meaning,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: fill different positions, certainly can hit. Since Sejaisi was called
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: up on August 30th, he has 10 multi-hit games. Last night,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: he hit leadoff. He's been at shortstop, second, but he's
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: been everywhere. I wonder if Sejaisi is a regular player,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: either for the Cardinals somewhere, or if he's one of
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: those utility guys that can plug in anywhere. How do
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: you see the future for Thomas Sejaisi?
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I think... The future is if he can play four positions,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: we can get him in the lineup seven days. I
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: think that's the number one thing. It's like, where can
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: we put him in the lineup for him to have
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: success and lengthen our lineup? But the number one thing
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: we've seen is when he gets to play, he hits.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: So when ballplayers get to play the game every day,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: they do winning things and they get hits and they're
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: involved in the game. I think we're looking at a
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: right-handed Burleson, right, in a situation where the more he
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: gets to play, the more you like about him. So, yeah,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: that's where I'm at with Seguesi. He needs to play.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: He needs to be in the lineup. I don't think
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: he cares where you play him, so that's a positive
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: because that means it won't affect offensively anything. He just
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: needs to be in the lineup. So I think you
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: have four positions, five positions that you could plug him
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: in every time. in any day of the week and
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: be okay with him defensively. So now it's, okay, where
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: can we put him in the lineup to cause havoc?
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Because he doesn't strike out. He hits doubles. He does
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: all the things that he needs to do offensively to
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: be a problem. And that makes your lineup better. It
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: makes you not have to worry about long balls to
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: drive and run and stuff like that because these guys
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: get on base. They hit the extra base hits. They
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: take the extra base. That's how you score runs. So
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: I think he's a part of the team some way,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: some form every day in the lineup. Now, where are
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: we going to put him in the, in the field
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: every day? And I don't think he cares. And that's
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: why he can be in the lineup every day in
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: four different positions on the field. And it will be
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: huge for this team.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You're exactly right. I don't think he cares either.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Like he's so relaxed and his attitude is I'm happy
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to be playing baseball for a living at the major
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: league level.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: But he wants to play, but he wants to play.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: He wants to play. I'm happy to be playing baseball,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: but it's like, There's nothing worse than a guy who
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: can help a team win, sit there and know that
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: he could do something and never get the opportunity. And
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: I think early on this year, it was like, where
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: do I fit in the lineup? When do I get
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: to play? When do I'm not going to get to play?
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: It's like, hey, if you tell a guy like him,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: just like Burleson, you're going to play every day, whether
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: like Burley was left or first or DH. And next
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: thing you know, it's like, hey, Burley's hitting 290 with 20.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, yeah, because that's what, he could do
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: if you let him play. So Casey is a similar
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: type player. I don't care where you play me. Let
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: me go hit and I'll make, I'll make the plays
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I'm supposed to make. And I will, I will do
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: the things offensively I need to do to help our
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: team win. And that's, that's why I like him. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that's why I say ball player is like, you plug
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: those guys into lineups and you put them in a
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: spot where they can get comfortable offensively. They don't care
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: where they play defensively because they're going to make plays
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: and they're going to make, the plays they're supposed to make,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: and that's all you need when you're a pitcher. Make
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: the plays you're supposed to, and get me some knocks, boys.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: That's all I care about. I don't need the diving plays.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I need the balls caught that are supposed to, and
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: then get your knocks.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: You bring up Burley as a comparison. Right now, Burley,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I think, couldn't be shining any brighter. He leads all
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: of baseball in hits with runners in scoring position. Last
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I looked, he was hitting. 361 with risk, but I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And with bases loaded, Eight for 15. Eight for 15.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And then meantime, at first base, I think more and
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: more people are starting to understand that maybe this guy
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: is a gold glover at some point. There's some competition
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: out there, but he makes play after play after play. Now, look,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Burley's arbitration eligible next year, I think. In the offseason,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: is he a guy, if you were running the show,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: you'd be like, all right, let's give this guy some
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: money now because he's shown what he can do.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's my thing when you give a guy money
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: early or in the arbitration process or whatever. It's where
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: does he fit in the clubhouse to, right? And I
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: think Burley is a guy who fits very high up
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: in the clubhouse on the way he goes about his business,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: the way he prepares, the way he's game ready every day,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: and what he does on the field. So when you
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: do that and you're the, well, like I love the
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: person that he is. So I'm going to say, yes,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you should. because he's a clubhouse guy and a winning
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: baseball player. So when those go hand in hand, I
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: say you give him the money. And in a weird way,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: the way that the arbitration system and everything works, he's
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: not going to make huge amounts of money in the
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: sense of first baseman or power hitters and stuff like that.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: So I think there's a way to give him a five,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: six-year extension that gets him to 34 And then you're
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: looking at it, you have a core piece clubhouse-wise that's
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: a winning player that you can put things around him
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: in the lineup. And he can do whatever he needs
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: to do. And he feels that he needs to do
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: that day to be productive. And that's huge for a team.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: You know, I guess you're worried about giving the bag
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: to certain guys, you know, based on who they are.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe their maturity level.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: You hate to give a big bad to a turd, man.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: It turns into a bad situation. It gets stinky quick.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Burley's not that guy. Burley, like, he goes one for three,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: and he's beating himself up. Like, this guy literally strives
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: for perfection. No one gets there, but he strives.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Money's not going to make him comfy. It's going to
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: make him. It's going to make him. Let me show
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: you how good I can be.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: All right. Be a wise investment.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: There's nothing worse than a comfy bag. It turns into
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: a big pile of shit later.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's true.
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: Back in the day, Kratzy and I were looking for tickets.
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: It was so hard to find a seat or anything available.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: You'd have to go online and there was nothing there.
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: But now with SeatGeek, they make it so much easier
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: for you. They have the green light special. What does
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: that mean? It means when the green light is on,
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: you can get some of the best seats available. Go
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: to SeatGeek. Kratzy understands how easy it is.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I know you used to scalp your tickets, but look,
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: it's way, way better now because you get to just
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: go right on SeatGeek and find your postseason tickets. I'm
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: not even going to fast forward to the postseason. I'm
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: going to say the run to October because some teams
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: aren't in yet, so right now is the time to
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: get it, and those seats are available.
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: And it's playoff time, the best time for baseball. And
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: of course, I have a code for you all. You
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: can use code TERRITORY10 for 10% off your next set
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: of MLB tickets at SeatGeek. That 10% off MLB tickets
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: with promo code TERRITORY10. Make sure you click the link
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: in the description to download the app and have the
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: code automatically added to your account so you can use
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: it later.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Palante goes tonight. Oh, Andre's done this year, and that's
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: with one short stint on the IL to make sure
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: he's okay. 12 wins, 3.45 ERA. I'm happy for the guy.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I know you love Dre, as you guys call him.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: What's the ceiling for this guy? Because, look, early on,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you wondered, does this guy have it? And he stayed
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: with the process. He got better, better, better. It's hard
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: to argue with those numbers.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: He's been really good.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a hard one, right? Because when you say,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: what's this ceiling? I think in the world that we
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: live in, it's Ks per nine, right? So you can't, unfortunately,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: you can't sit here and say, all right, with 102
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Ks out of 146 innings, you can't sit here and say, oh,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: he could be a top three of the rotation caliber guy,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: but he can give you a number three quality season,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: if that makes sense. So he has the ability to
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: be a three in a rotation and You can't pencil
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: him in or hope that he can be a, oh,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: this guy could be a one or a two. And
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: there's very few ones in the game ever. Not every
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: team even has a one. They might be a one
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: on their team, but they're not a one. So I
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: would say if you're looking at a guy that you
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: look up every year and he makes 30 starts and
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: he throws 180 innings, you have a quality mid-rotation starter,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and that's really good. And the reason why I say
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: that's his– quote-unquote, ceiling is because that's how he's going
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: to be viewed in the game, especially front offices. I'm
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: talking as a front office guy. He just doesn't strike
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: enough people out for them to view him any higher
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: than that, and that sucks for him because he can
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: get outs. He keeps the ball on the ground. He
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: takes the ball. He gives you the innings. He does
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: all the things you want to do, but he's not
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: going to be seen as anything more than a 3-3. And,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: you know, that's not a knock on him because I
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: think he, on a team, is very valuable. But that's
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: how the game's going to value him, unfortunately.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: There's no room for pitch-to-contact guys anymore. Is that what
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you're telling me? No room at the end?
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: If you're a one-per-nine guy, you're still not, they still
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: see you as a three. Or, like, you have to
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: be a 10-plus to be even considered a two. And
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: then if you're a one, you've got to be 12Ks
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: per nine and, You know, it's so crazy. The game
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: has changed so much in, hey, you know, what can
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: you do for me strikeout-wise and this and that. Dre's
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: learned to keep people in the games. He's learned to
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: win ballgames. He's learned to go deep. He's learned to
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: do everything that you need him to do to be
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: a very good major league pitcher. And he is, and
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: he will be, but he's never going to be seen
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: as a top-of-the-rotation guy solely because of one stat, and
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: that's Ks per nine. And it's because it's not even
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: close to nine. That's the problem. If it was at nine,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: we could get away with being like, he's a, he's a,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: he's a top three of the rotation guy. That's how
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: they'd say it, but he's still a three, but they'd
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: say a top three of the rotation guy. But because
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: the cage for nine is at one 20 or one
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Oh two out of one 40, they're saying his ceiling's
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a three, you know? So that's the, that's the hard part, right? But,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: and that's the game that anything they can do to
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: devalue you, that's what they're going to do. Um, and,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: but he gets out and he gets out, um, and
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: he's learned to get outside a high level and I'm
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: proud of him and does everything he's supposed to. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: I don't want him to chase strikeouts cause that's not
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: what he has to do to win games. And I
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: think he's learned that. And that's why the walks are
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: down this year and the, and the quality innings are
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: up the ERA is down all those things because he's
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: figured out who he is. And there's, there's spots for
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: that in the, in this game, um, on winning teams
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: and he'll, he'll find a spot and he'll make his money.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Major league baseball is, uh, Talked about a couple expansion
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: teams being added. Meantime, the elephant in the room, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: it's a big, stinky elephant, is the possibility of a
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: work stoppage. There's a labor dispute on the horizon, possibly. So, Lance,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: what's your latest? We've asked you about this from time
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to time, and you always come in hard.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: So what do you got?
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's crazy to think that they're talking about
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: expansion when baseball is in such a bad spot, you know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: that they're going to have to lock people out. There's
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: not enough, you know, it's just not good enough for
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: the owners. But there's so many people that want to
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: own teams and take them to new cities, but we're
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: just not in a good spot. So it's kind of crazy,
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: you know, makes you really not understand why there's going
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: to be such a labor fight when there's billions of
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: dollars in new teams. being talked about when, uh, you know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: they want to put all these things and, and take
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: all the things away that they, that they're, you know,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: trying to, uh, in the, in the labor talks now.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: So not surprised, right. I think, um, uh, heck, I
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: remember when Manfred took over years ago, everyone was talking
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: about where his, his last hurrah is going to be expansion. And, uh,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: from the get go, from everything I heard from when
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I was a young lad, when he took over it,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: his goal was to get a salary cap and expand.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: And if he did that, then he thinks he's going
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to be the greatest commissioner of all time. And I
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: think that they were correct in something that that's what
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: he was going after. And I think if you told him,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: or if you see what he's after now, and when
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: he said he wants to be done, both of those
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: things are what he is trying to do before he retires.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: And that will make him in his mind, the greatest
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: commissioner of all time. Um, because he added two teams
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: and he put a salary cap in. So I think
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: it's pretty obvious what Manfred's after.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to lose from both sides, too, I think. Look,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping they play. I understand what you're saying. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of money at stake, right? TV deals
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: are kind of in flux right now with a lot
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: of teams being taken over by MLB. Owners want that
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: playoff revenue for teams in the postseason. They want to
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: see a season play. players don't want to lose money,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and secondly, fans want to see it. Don't you think
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: at some point rationality will enter the picture?
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you'd hope, but do you think it is?
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know. How many games do you have to
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: miss for people to get rational on either side? That's
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the question that everyone needs to answer. How many games
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: do each side stomach missing? Because that's what it's going
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: to take. I think as long as the owners put
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: in the salary cap with really nothing else changing, nothing
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: else changing in anything, they're going to highlight all these
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: other little things that really don't matter. But as long
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: as they have that in without giving the players a
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: damn thing, there will be a lockout because what's being
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: offered is we want a salary cap, we want all
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: these things, and we don't want to give you shit.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Take it or leave it. That's pretty much where we're
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: at right now.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Obviously, negotiations will change. But there's a floor. They're talking
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: about putting a floor in.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, but they have to put a floor in because
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: they're putting in a cap. So that doesn't change anything
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: else the players are getting screwed with. The players are
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: getting screwed on so many different levels that people don't
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: even understand them. And they're trying to screw international players
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: by having a draft there too and a cap on
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: that system. There's so many things that they are after
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: that are in between the fine print that if they
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: don't give any of those things up, which they're not
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: offering any of those things, and want a cap, we
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: want a cap, but we'll give you a floor. It's like, well,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: you have to have a floor because you're having a cap.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: That's how the system works. So thanks for giving us
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: something that goes in there anyways. Cool, man. What are
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: you going to give us to make it worth our while?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: And they have not offered anything for it to be
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: worth the player's while. And the player's number one thing
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: since the day this system's ever been put in is
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: we do not want a salary cap. So they're offering
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: a salary cap without giving them a damn thing in return.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And other things that they're trying to get, whether it's
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: the international draft so they can cap international signings and
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. So they're going after everything that every
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: player is strong against. without giving up anything to sway
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: them away. So that's where I'm at on this. Hopefully.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Hopefully.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Hopefully they can figure it out. They got some time
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: to do it, Lance, because I love baseball.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: They have so much they have to give up to
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: even starting talking about a cap, and they're not willing
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: to do it. The only thing they're willing to do
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: is lock us out. Sorry, the players out. Lock the
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: players out and say, you have no money coming. See
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: you later. That's it. And then try to turn the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: fans against us.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: You already got the bag.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: That's what they do.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: You already got the bag, so you're good.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Hopefully, no one gets turned around or turned against anyone.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I want them to work it out. We're not there yet, Lance.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: We will revisit this topic, I'm sure, many, many times.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: In the future. You also have to realize this. Now
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you got me on a tangent. You got me on
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: a tangent. You did what you wanted to. You have
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: to realize this. All they did was tell us how
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: much they fucked us the last CBA. And then they're
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: trying to go to here, this one. So it is a...
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: People don't realize this. They've been rubbing our face in
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: it since the last CBA. And then this is what
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: they're going with on this one. So people don't forget, Jim.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: People don't forget. Players are good for a reason because
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: they hold grudges and they don't forget the last hit
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: they gave up against you, especially if they're a pitcher.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Lance, no one wants to censor you. This is Lance Unplugged.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: That's what we're all about. That's going to do it
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: for this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Hopefully that episode won't suck.