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The Science of Break-Ups · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works
0:04
Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
0:13
Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, there's Jerry Rush
0:17
Speaker 1: Rush Rush, Jerry. This is Stuff you Should Know. The
0:22
Speaker 1: Breakup edition, right, three people who you've never broken up
0:26
Speaker 1: with one another? No, that's true, The Plus three Great
0:30
Speaker 1: Point Modern Triad. Yeah, the Tryad. So Hey, before we
0:37
Speaker 1: get going, we want to tell everyone alright, at the
0:40
Speaker 1: end of this episode and before listener mail, actually instead
0:44
Speaker 1: of listener mail, we're gonna have in a couple of
0:46
Speaker 1: dudes from new show on our network and they're gonna
0:50
Speaker 1: break up in front of us. No. There shows called
0:53
Speaker 1: how to Money, and these guys are local and they
0:57
Speaker 1: were big Stuff you should Know listeners, Matt and Joel,
1:00
Speaker 1: and they were like, we want to start a podcast
1:02
Speaker 1: about finance and money matters in life that's sort of
1:06
Speaker 1: like what you guys do, that's approachable and real and
1:09
Speaker 1: just like a couple of people talking normal but about money. Yeah,
1:13
Speaker 1: and it's really really good. Yeah. So we're gonna have
1:15
Speaker 1: those guys on at the end for a few minutes.
1:18
Speaker 1: But it's a show I think everyone would love, so
1:20
Speaker 1: stick around for that. Cool. Uh. So I picked this
1:23
Speaker 1: one out because mainly, um it, uh, this is a refrain.
1:27
Speaker 1: We get an email a lot um we hear from
1:29
Speaker 1: heartbroken people a lot more than you would think that
1:33
Speaker 1: are just like that's so sad heart and you uh,
1:37
Speaker 1: you guys have helped me with this show as a distraction,
1:40
Speaker 1: which we will learn is one of the official ways
1:43
Speaker 1: to get over a breakup. Yeah, look over here, Yeah exactly.
1:47
Speaker 1: Um So it just got me thinking about, like, is
1:50
Speaker 1: there any science behind breakups and the emotions that go
1:54
Speaker 1: along with it? And it turns out there's a lot,
1:57
Speaker 1: like a disturbing amount of study has been done. When
2:01
Speaker 1: you look at it, you're like, oh man, maybe you
2:04
Speaker 1: should have allocated that money towards research toward other things
2:07
Speaker 1: like cancer. Yeah, although social psychology couldn't do anything about cancer. No,
2:12
Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's not like they're like, oh, well,
2:14
Speaker 1: we'll just it's all taken from one big pool, so
2:17
Speaker 1: we'll just allocate some of this break up money towards
2:21
Speaker 1: cancer research. Well, you could allocate the money, but the
2:27
Speaker 1: mental energy, I guess is what I'm talking about. Yeah,
2:30
Speaker 1: but this that was just it seemed like study after study,
2:33
Speaker 1: and and also we should point out to that I
2:38
Speaker 1: think there was one case in here of one study
2:40
Speaker 1: where they looked at homosexual couples, But most of this
2:44
Speaker 1: study is like cis gendered straight couples through that lens,
2:50
Speaker 1: only they're not doing a ton of research outside that.
2:53
Speaker 1: I found. I found one that UM that that tracks
2:58
Speaker 1: um it core relates the likelihood of breaking up to time,
3:02
Speaker 1: and they had it broken out by same sex and
3:06
Speaker 1: um straight, married, and unmarried. Those were like the four categories.
3:12
Speaker 1: So some people are doing it, but yeah, for the
3:14
Speaker 1: most part now. And I think one of the reasons
3:17
Speaker 1: why I chuck is a lot of this is from
3:19
Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, early two thousand tens, and that
3:24
Speaker 1: was you know, that was about the last the last,
3:28
Speaker 1: like the tail end of that. Now I think it's
3:30
Speaker 1: starting to change, fortunately, right because people of all genders
3:36
Speaker 1: and sexual orientation break up and get dumped, and we're
3:40
Speaker 1: here to help all of you. So buckle in, grab
3:44
Speaker 1: a hanky, and let's get through this. Yeah, I mean,
3:48
Speaker 1: let's we should go ahead and start out by saying
3:49
Speaker 1: I guess that um in theory, more people are breaking
3:53
Speaker 1: up now because people are generally waiting longer to get married.
3:57
Speaker 1: So if you could extrapolate that if you're not married
3:59
Speaker 1: for in more years than let's say our parents were,
4:03
Speaker 1: then maybe you've gone through a couple of more breakups
4:05
Speaker 1: along the way. Yeah, we should give a shout out
4:07
Speaker 1: to Kristen Conger of Unladylike Media congs who wrote this
4:12
Speaker 1: article our old pal and she points out that that
4:15
Speaker 1: typically means that you are going to find somebody who
4:19
Speaker 1: you work with rather than rushing into it. But it also,
4:23
Speaker 1: as she puts it, like leaves the window open longer
4:26
Speaker 1: for heartbreak to be dumped. One thing I saw, Chuck,
4:30
Speaker 1: this is mind boggling to me. Of people, according to
4:35
Speaker 1: this one study, um will be dumped in their lifetime,
4:40
Speaker 1: will experience being a breakup in their lifetime? That means
4:45
Speaker 1: of humanity won't. That is, those are some interesting people
4:50
Speaker 1: have not had a breakup or been broken up with,
4:53
Speaker 1: will not in their lifetime just going to either never
4:57
Speaker 1: have a relationship or the first time they're going to
5:01
Speaker 1: hit it out of the park. But that doesn't mean
5:03
Speaker 1: like or settle. I've never been dumped. Yeah, like they'll
5:08
Speaker 1: never have gone through a breakup, But I've been through
5:10
Speaker 1: breakups I've done. I've been the dumper, right, I know
5:12
Speaker 1: what you're saying. No, I believe that they will not
5:15
Speaker 1: have experience a breakup in their lifetime. Either way, Well,
5:18
Speaker 1: that's great. That means say I met the person that
5:21
Speaker 1: they love when they're young, probably again. Or it means
5:24
Speaker 1: that they decided to live their life alone just fine, right,
5:29
Speaker 1: or or both they like I said, they decided to like, yeah,
5:33
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stick with this person. Yeah, I don't
5:36
Speaker 1: want to. I want to be what. I don't want
5:38
Speaker 1: to ruin my record, a spotless record. I think it's
5:42
Speaker 1: very interesting here that um supposedly and this is very
5:47
Speaker 1: hanky how they found this out about the spikes and
5:51
Speaker 1: breakups from like that's a Facebook data place. He doesn't count.
5:56
Speaker 1: Social psychology doesn't count. I agree, But it doesn't make
5:59
Speaker 1: a little bit of sense. And I could see this
6:01
Speaker 1: being true that generally dumping someone or getting broken up
6:06
Speaker 1: with can happen on any day of the year, but
6:09
Speaker 1: there are spikes in early December, in early March because
6:13
Speaker 1: of Christmas holidays, in spring break. Yeah, and technically you
6:17
Speaker 1: could see that being true. There has I'm sure it's
6:19
Speaker 1: true at least on Facebook and yeah, this is a
6:21
Speaker 1: pretty big day to pull. But it's like, that's so lazy.
6:25
Speaker 1: It's lazy, but I could see it because it's it
6:27
Speaker 1: makes a little bit of sense that you would not
6:29
Speaker 1: want to go through the holidays with someone that uh
6:33
Speaker 1: and you send a thing to. And this is important
6:35
Speaker 1: to point out, like when the breakup happens, when that
6:39
Speaker 1: talk or these days text message or phone call happens,
6:44
Speaker 1: that is the end of something for maybe both of you,
6:49
Speaker 1: but definitely one of you. Yeah, sometimes most of the
6:53
Speaker 1: time that that actual act of saying we're breaking up,
6:56
Speaker 1: that's at the end of many, many weeks or even
6:59
Speaker 1: months or even years of contemplation about whether or not
7:02
Speaker 1: you want to still be with this person. Right, And
7:04
Speaker 1: that's why being broken up with is almost across the
7:10
Speaker 1: board way harder than breaking up because by the time,
7:15
Speaker 1: like you said, by the time the person who initiates
7:17
Speaker 1: the breakup initiates the breakup, this is this is at
7:21
Speaker 1: the end of a long road of decision making, whereas
7:23
Speaker 1: the other person might have been blissfully unaware or at
7:26
Speaker 1: least willfully ignorant um or not willing to address the issues.
7:30
Speaker 1: And so they are one way or another largely caught
7:34
Speaker 1: off guard by being broken up with. So the person
7:38
Speaker 1: who does the breaking up has already gone through all
7:40
Speaker 1: these stages of grief of separation, Whereas now it's this person,
7:44
Speaker 1: the person who's just been dumped, it's their time to
7:47
Speaker 1: go through. Right. So if you're if you're doing the dumping,
7:49
Speaker 1: like the hour after you have that conversation, you're like,
7:54
Speaker 1: what a relief, I'm I'm starting over. Let's go get
7:57
Speaker 1: some gin, whereas the dumpy is like that, goes get
8:00
Speaker 1: some jew. That begins, That begins their process. Although the
8:04
Speaker 1: only thing I'll take issue with that whole line of
8:06
Speaker 1: thought though, is that a lot of people, even that
8:08
Speaker 1: might get dumped, aren't like what like they may have
8:14
Speaker 1: known and just didn't want to admit it or weren't
8:16
Speaker 1: brave enough or strong enough to do it themselves. Um
8:19
Speaker 1: and I agree with you on that. I think that
8:22
Speaker 1: there's still a thread that they had not been preparing
8:27
Speaker 1: themselves just by being insane, denial, unwilling to address it,
8:32
Speaker 1: face it. Now they have no no choice but to
8:35
Speaker 1: face reality, whereas the person who did the breakup was
8:39
Speaker 1: like facing reality and coming to terms with it quietly
8:42
Speaker 1: and then now it's your right, which brings me back
8:45
Speaker 1: to my original point, which is Christmas and spring break
8:49
Speaker 1: make a little bit of sense because the person who
8:53
Speaker 1: was desperate to get out of a relationship and break
8:55
Speaker 1: up with somebody, they're staring at those Christmas holidays and
8:59
Speaker 1: that first week of descend rolls around. They're like, I
9:01
Speaker 1: gotta do this now because I don't want to travel
9:04
Speaker 1: a lot of time with this person and get through
9:06
Speaker 1: the whole gift thing, and the holidays are just it's
9:08
Speaker 1: tough to be in a relationship that's a lie. Well sure,
9:12
Speaker 1: because I mean, holidays are so about like connecting and
9:16
Speaker 1: feeling and warmth and all that, and if you're faking
9:19
Speaker 1: it or have to fake it, you know, some people
9:21
Speaker 1: are like, I'm not going through that. I also saw
9:24
Speaker 1: an explanation in Harper's Bizarre of All Places that some
9:28
Speaker 1: people may do that because of the pressure of coming
9:31
Speaker 1: up with a really good gift, that the relationship is
9:35
Speaker 1: not worth the pressure of coming up with a good
9:38
Speaker 1: gift outweighs the value of the relationship to those people.
9:41
Speaker 1: Or there are some people who don't want to put
9:44
Speaker 1: their significant other through that, so they just break up proactively,
9:49
Speaker 1: which also means that they didn't value the relationship that
9:52
Speaker 1: much either, But at least in their mind, they're not
9:54
Speaker 1: doing it for themselves. They're doing it for the other
9:57
Speaker 1: person because they don't want to put the other person
9:59
Speaker 1: through that that sure of having to get the perfect gift. Yeah.
10:02
Speaker 1: I've never had that thing either, where you start dating
10:04
Speaker 1: someone and it's like a couple of weeks for their
10:07
Speaker 1: birthday or Christmas, and you'r and then that pressure of like, man,
10:12
Speaker 1: how do I play this one? You know, a couple
10:14
Speaker 1: of after a couple of weeks, yeah, this person? Or
10:18
Speaker 1: but how do how deep do I go on this gift? Here?
10:21
Speaker 1: I don't really know you, So I got you a
10:24
Speaker 1: basket of socks. Everyone loves socks. So here's an Amazon
10:29
Speaker 1: gift card forty eight fifty right after a couple of weeks.
10:35
Speaker 1: That's a little that's a little close to come up
10:37
Speaker 1: with a perfect gift or even be expected to. And
10:40
Speaker 1: I did mention breaking up by text or whatever, like
10:44
Speaker 1: you would suspect if you were born before nineteen five,
10:48
Speaker 1: like myself, Um, you break up in person supposedly about
10:53
Speaker 1: seventy at the time. Post if you were born less
10:59
Speaker 1: than fifty percent the time you're gonna do that in person?
11:02
Speaker 1: And they say generation? Why whatever that is? I think
11:05
Speaker 1: it's millennials, is it? I'm pretty sure when did they
11:08
Speaker 1: name them? The like? Do they know what? Like? Does
11:10
Speaker 1: my daughter have a generation already? I don't know like
11:12
Speaker 1: a name. I'm sure somebody out there is your daughter's generation.
11:16
Speaker 1: You're annoying? No box her in right? Well, you got
11:20
Speaker 1: a pigeonhole, folks. Let her grow up, be her own person.
11:24
Speaker 1: But if you are gen y, you're more likely to
11:27
Speaker 1: do it over the phone. Uh. And of course this
11:30
Speaker 1: says a searing instant message or an email. I think
11:35
Speaker 1: these days you would call that a text. An email
11:37
Speaker 1: is the lowest percent wise and compassion wise for four
11:43
Speaker 1: of people. That's the worst email. What was as pretty bad?
11:48
Speaker 1: Email is as bad as it gets? Is it? Sex
11:50
Speaker 1: in the city? Where it was a sticky note? I
11:52
Speaker 1: don't remember, feel like I didn't see the movie Sticky Note? Break?
11:57
Speaker 1: I think? So, um, should we take a break? Yeah,
12:01
Speaker 1: let's take a break? Man. This is going really really
12:03
Speaker 1: well so far? Okay, alright, Chuck, So we've talked about
12:34
Speaker 1: when people break up, how they break up, why did
12:39
Speaker 1: they break up? Well, actually, there's one more, Okay, I
12:44
Speaker 1: think pretty important thing about the how, which is men
12:48
Speaker 1: and women. Women tend to present And this sort of
12:53
Speaker 1: makes sense too if you want to be stereotypically, you know,
12:57
Speaker 1: stereotypical about it. Women to to present a list of grievances,
13:02
Speaker 1: here's all the things wrong with you both pretty much,
13:05
Speaker 1: whereas men, uh, it's a little more uh supposedly a
13:08
Speaker 1: little more nebulous. Where the magic go. Yeah, there you go.
13:12
Speaker 1: That's apparently. The differences as far as like rationale for
13:16
Speaker 1: breaking up and these are so macro level and broad
13:19
Speaker 1: and how we talk about it. It's a little embarrassing
13:22
Speaker 1: to even do. But to talk about this stuff, I
13:26
Speaker 1: know I would do this. Some women do this, right, No,
13:28
Speaker 1: it's absolutely true. Um, that's but I feel like when
13:32
Speaker 1: you talk about this, people can find themselves in the
13:34
Speaker 1: contours of thinks of all if you put all this
13:37
Speaker 1: stuff together, if you just took one study and said
13:40
Speaker 1: that this is definitive, people should punch you in the kidney. Agreed,
13:44
Speaker 1: but not really. Don't punch anybody. You know, everyone. Over
13:48
Speaker 1: the last almost eleven years of stuff, you should know,
13:51
Speaker 1: I've said a lot of things that make it sound
13:53
Speaker 1: like I'm inciting people to violence, friendly violence. So I
13:56
Speaker 1: was joking every single time. Why someone said something, I
14:01
Speaker 1: just I just want to make sure that everyone knows
14:04
Speaker 1: that I was never ever actually serious and saying hit
14:09
Speaker 1: somebody in the head with attack camera or someone in
14:12
Speaker 1: the Actually, I'm kidding all the time, except for when
14:17
Speaker 1: you recommend that you pants somebody, And I was kidding
14:20
Speaker 1: even then. To have a classroom or that's psychological abuse.
14:23
Speaker 1: It's physical, but it's more psychological than anything. You've ever
14:27
Speaker 1: been pants in front of people? Yes? Really, yes, And
14:30
Speaker 1: I can tell you it's psychological. I don't think I've
14:34
Speaker 1: ever been pants. Boy, I can't imagine anything more horrifying
14:40
Speaker 1: than being pants. What's underwear? On what? I can confirm
14:43
Speaker 1: that because I can't remember being pants. I just remember
14:47
Speaker 1: that I have been pants. So I think I just
14:49
Speaker 1: immediately blocked out everything. Yeah, no story, no story there.
14:54
Speaker 1: Um okay. Uh So if you get broke en up
15:00
Speaker 1: with um, you will feel And we're gonna talk about
15:04
Speaker 1: the science of a lot of this because it's very
15:06
Speaker 1: similar to overcoming addictions sometimes but um, of course depression
15:10
Speaker 1: and anxiety, uh sometimes suicidal thoughts, sometimes homicide. Oh sure,
15:17
Speaker 1: that's a that's an outcome and the worst case outcome
15:20
Speaker 1: that and suicide of breakups. But they are directly related
15:25
Speaker 1: to breakups. That's how bad breakups can be. Yeah. Uh
15:29
Speaker 1: And apparently you know when people do right in about
15:32
Speaker 1: getting dumped and stuff, always say, you know, it's the
15:35
Speaker 1: most trite thing in the world, but like time is
15:38
Speaker 1: the only thing that really helps, Like ice cream and
15:41
Speaker 1: stuff like that is good, but like it really does
15:45
Speaker 1: decrease over time. However, in studies, um, eight weeks after
15:49
Speaker 1: being dumped in this study, people still had signs of
15:54
Speaker 1: clinical depression, and twelve percent appeared moderately or severely depressed.
15:59
Speaker 1: So depends on the relationship along you're in it, how
16:02
Speaker 1: much it meant to you, what kind of person you are.
16:05
Speaker 1: But it can stick around for for a bit, it
16:07
Speaker 1: can so. Um. The thing is, though, there are things
16:10
Speaker 1: you can do to help accelerate the healing process, and
16:14
Speaker 1: we'll talk about those at the end. How about that.
16:16
Speaker 1: We'll make y'all wait, all right, So, um, where are
16:20
Speaker 1: we at, chucker? We at the the well the attachment styles.
16:23
Speaker 1: I think it is interesting because um, we did talk
16:26
Speaker 1: about like gay straight cis gendered. Uh, you know, on
16:30
Speaker 1: the gender spectrum, maybe none of that matters. Maybe what
16:35
Speaker 1: matters is what they call your attachment style. That's that's
16:39
Speaker 1: what this says pretty plainly, that that's what it comes
16:42
Speaker 1: down to, how you attach yourselves to other people. You
16:44
Speaker 1: can be a needy, clingy dude, You can be um
16:47
Speaker 1: a avoidant woman, or you can be either one of
16:51
Speaker 1: those things anywhere on the gender spectrum. That's the thing.
16:54
Speaker 1: Like the the idea that women are clinging men are
16:56
Speaker 1: distant is is fabled. Yeah, it's at least ham fisted. Yeah,
17:03
Speaker 1: I think so. It's it's sort of that thing in
17:06
Speaker 1: social science that bothers me, which is like you're either
17:08
Speaker 1: this or this right, like one thing or the other,
17:11
Speaker 1: and really all you are as a white college student,
17:13
Speaker 1: that's what they really mean. Yeah, we had a little
17:16
Speaker 1: time on their hands, right, you needed extra credit. But
17:19
Speaker 1: there are two supposedly again two things um attachment styles,
17:23
Speaker 1: anxious attachment and avoidant. Congre points out like that's two
17:28
Speaker 1: ends of a spectrum, and you can fall somewhere on there.
17:32
Speaker 1: There's actually a it's pretty straightforward. It's um uh the
17:37
Speaker 1: oh oh I s I believe or O s I.
17:41
Speaker 1: It's a scale where you pick how your relationship is
17:47
Speaker 1: best described by a series of ven diagrams, and one
17:51
Speaker 1: circles you. One circle is your significant other, and they're
17:54
Speaker 1: just increasingly together, from just barely touching too almost completely
18:00
Speaker 1: merged into one single circle, and you just circle the
18:03
Speaker 1: one that best describes your your sense of what your
18:06
Speaker 1: relationships like, and that supposedly gets your your spectrum replacement
18:11
Speaker 1: on the spectrum of attachment across. So interesting, So it's
18:14
Speaker 1: real subjective and self reported, so that is to say,
18:17
Speaker 1: not scientific, right, Unfortunately, um, Supposedly two thirds of women
18:23
Speaker 1: initiate divorces. Uh, and this article says that might give
18:28
Speaker 1: them a statistical edge over getting over a relationship because
18:31
Speaker 1: they initiated the breakup, so they've been in the process already.
18:35
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I think she meant. I think so,
18:38
Speaker 1: I'm just not so sure that just because a woman
18:41
Speaker 1: initiates a divorce, it may have been after years of
18:46
Speaker 1: systematic abuse, you know, which may not mean like she's
18:50
Speaker 1: so ready to get over this uh quicker than he
18:54
Speaker 1: might be, right, you know, Yeah, No, I mean you
18:57
Speaker 1: can't just say, like if X, then I with this stuff.
19:01
Speaker 1: It's relationships sir as messy as as humans get. It's
19:06
Speaker 1: a relationship. Yeah, that's all you need to say. Well,
19:11
Speaker 1: let's talk about the brain a little bit, because this
19:13
Speaker 1: is where it does get a little more interesting, I think,
19:16
Speaker 1: slightly god slightly more scientific. Uh. There was a study
19:21
Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven by neurologists at the Einstein College
19:24
Speaker 1: of Medicine which sounded totally fake, but it's not. I
19:28
Speaker 1: have sounds made up for written down. It's in the bronx. Yeah,
19:32
Speaker 1: there's also they were also anthropologists from Rutgers and Sunny
19:35
Speaker 1: to legitimize things. Oh, in this study its Rutgers is
19:40
Speaker 1: legitimizing things. We're in trouble. Is that? Is that? Really?
19:46
Speaker 1: I thought Rutgers was all right? Or am I confusing
19:48
Speaker 1: it with toughs Ah, you're probably thinking Princeton, Okay, both
19:52
Speaker 1: in New Jersey schools. I thought Rutgers was the public
19:55
Speaker 1: ivy Okay, sorry, Rutgers I tried. Then they're gonna be
20:02
Speaker 1: so mad at me. I've hung out at Rutgers. I've
20:04
Speaker 1: been there people, so you know what you're talking about.
20:06
Speaker 1: And exactly what is it like the Detroit of New
20:09
Speaker 1: Jersey colleges or something that's not untrue? Okay? All right,
20:15
Speaker 1: he don't disagree. Boy, we're gonna get killed. That's okay.
20:19
Speaker 1: So this study from Einstein College of Medicine found that
20:23
Speaker 1: just looking at a photograph of an ex partner caused um,
20:28
Speaker 1: the second somo somato sensory cortex and the dorsal dorsal
20:34
Speaker 1: posterior insula. Jeez uh. And these areas process physical discomfort.
20:40
Speaker 1: They start lighting up. The same thing as happens is
20:42
Speaker 1: when you get physically injured, basically like you are in actual,
20:47
Speaker 1: legitimate pain as far as your brain is concerned, in
20:50
Speaker 1: the midst of a breakup, at least when you're stuck
20:53
Speaker 1: in an m r I machine and showing a picture
20:55
Speaker 1: of your recent acts, which is a big deal now
20:58
Speaker 1: with social media, because every modern article I read about
21:03
Speaker 1: breakups and getting over them talked about what a deletrious
21:07
Speaker 1: effect social media will have on your recovery process. Are
21:11
Speaker 1: you taunting me? Because the stuffs everywhere? Now. It used
21:15
Speaker 1: to be easy. You could just throw everything in a
21:18
Speaker 1: shoe box and set it on set it on fire,
21:22
Speaker 1: and send it down a river and a little boat
21:25
Speaker 1: made of rage. Um, But you can't do that anymore
21:28
Speaker 1: because they're everywhere. No, but that's that's tip number one
21:31
Speaker 1: from psychologist Guy Winch, author of How to Fix a
21:34
Speaker 1: Broken Heart. Stay the h off of social media. Do
21:39
Speaker 1: not stalk your X on social do not check in,
21:42
Speaker 1: like just separate. Imagine that would be really hard because
21:47
Speaker 1: in the old days, it was just left to your
21:50
Speaker 1: imagination to think about how much fun they were having
21:54
Speaker 1: with you know, now you can see pictures of the
21:57
Speaker 1: nine new boyfriends that she has. Hum but yeah, you're
22:02
Speaker 1: right now, or you know, maybe it helps people. I
22:05
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's imperative that you not do
22:08
Speaker 1: that to help to help. Like, it's not like watching
22:12
Speaker 1: them on social media will prevent you from ever getting
22:15
Speaker 1: over it. I think no matter what you do, you're
22:17
Speaker 1: going to eventually get past this. But all you're doing
22:22
Speaker 1: is prolonging the process, and that like unnecessarily uh. And
22:27
Speaker 1: then also when you were on the f m RI
22:30
Speaker 1: machine and they did brain scans from people who have
22:33
Speaker 1: been broken up with recently, they found that very much
22:36
Speaker 1: similar to people overcoming like an addiction to cocaine. Uh,
22:40
Speaker 1: and that that same circuitry is of overcoming addiction is
22:44
Speaker 1: just lighting up. It's that potent. Yeah, so so far
22:47
Speaker 1: with this m r I study from Albert Einstein came
22:50
Speaker 1: up with is that you were in physical pain from
22:53
Speaker 1: the breakup, and you're the same centers that are activated
22:57
Speaker 1: by addiction cravings with draws are activated by the breakup
23:02
Speaker 1: as well. That's astounding. Yeah, And this weird mental cycle
23:06
Speaker 1: happens basically when you do look at like a photograph
23:09
Speaker 1: of a uh what they say, a former lover right
23:13
Speaker 1: over like the burger king laying rug. But you will,
23:18
Speaker 1: you'll see the photo and the weird thing is you'll
23:20
Speaker 1: immediately get a reward. You will get a dopamine hit,
23:24
Speaker 1: like a pleasurable feeling by seeing this person. And then
23:27
Speaker 1: you realize, oh wait, well then you get sad all
23:31
Speaker 1: right immediately afterwards? Uh and then that sagnus sagness. Where
23:36
Speaker 1: did that come from? It is a little saggy feeling
23:39
Speaker 1: that triggers the brains ventral tech mental area and the
23:43
Speaker 1: nucleus uh acumen bins acumen bins. I think so, I
23:49
Speaker 1: know we've run into that before. We just talk about
23:52
Speaker 1: the brain a lot more human beins. I think we
23:55
Speaker 1: figured out the brain though, right, so we stopped. We
23:57
Speaker 1: were like do um, But the these two things working
24:00
Speaker 1: together regardless of how I mispronounced them. They trigger the
24:04
Speaker 1: urge to see that person, so you get sad, and
24:08
Speaker 1: then your brain lights up in two areas and then
24:10
Speaker 1: you go, hey, I remember that dopamine hit you get
24:13
Speaker 1: from looking this picture. Why don't you just give him
24:16
Speaker 1: a call and see what's going on? Right? You want
24:18
Speaker 1: the real stuff? Go go? They also those two areas
24:23
Speaker 1: apparently also UM are analytical as well, so they're responsible
24:27
Speaker 1: for rehashing the the relationship, but apparently they're not very
24:33
Speaker 1: realistic because most people, when rehashing the relationship, highlight the
24:38
Speaker 1: good parts and forget about all the bad parts. I
24:41
Speaker 1: kind of have tended to do that, I think everybody does.
24:44
Speaker 1: I don't understand why. I don't know. I don't agree
24:47
Speaker 1: with that, like Emily, and when we of course, I've
24:52
Speaker 1: been married so long the subject never comes up anymore.
24:55
Speaker 1: But I was always like, oh, with the old girlfriend,
24:59
Speaker 1: what was so bad there? And then if I really
25:01
Speaker 1: thought about it, I would remember where She's always like,
25:04
Speaker 1: oh that was awful? Yeah gotcha? Well she's smart. Yeah
25:08
Speaker 1: maybe so I'm dumb dumb so but but okay, so
25:12
Speaker 1: even and you're not dumb dumb, even if UM like
25:16
Speaker 1: you represent a third of people or a half of
25:19
Speaker 1: people who do real when rehashing, only think about the
25:23
Speaker 1: good stuff and forget about all the negative stuff, like
25:26
Speaker 1: what is that? Why does that even happen? It's bizarre
25:29
Speaker 1: if you think about the personality thing, like if I
25:33
Speaker 1: tend to be optimistic maybe or yeah, yeah, I guess
25:36
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good explanation to tell you the truth.
25:38
Speaker 1: What I was going to say is if you look
25:40
Speaker 1: at relationships or romantic love as um a a evolutionary
25:47
Speaker 1: drive to pair and mate successfully over and over again
25:52
Speaker 1: and to stay together, that would bring you back to
25:55
Speaker 1: this person that you've already connected with, rather than making
25:57
Speaker 1: you go look for another mate. That makes sense, So
25:59
Speaker 1: may be it's kind of like a backstopp or fail
26:02
Speaker 1: safe for breakups evolutionarily speaking, right, like I was so
26:07
Speaker 1: close to having nine babies, Like I really want to
26:11
Speaker 1: start all over again, right, Which is funny because that
26:13
Speaker 1: means that Emily is more evolved than you in that sense. Yeah,
26:17
Speaker 1: in every sense. But the end of that mental cycle,
26:21
Speaker 1: basically though, is those areas light up that say go
26:24
Speaker 1: back and see that person. Then you are immediately unsatisfied
26:28
Speaker 1: and about the fact that that's not happening. That's when
26:31
Speaker 1: you're a pre frontal cortex trips into gear and that's
26:36
Speaker 1: when you get angry. And it's just that mental cycle
26:38
Speaker 1: that starts seeing that photo on a social media platform
26:42
Speaker 1: and ending up upset in the end. But UM, the
26:47
Speaker 1: same study led by Helen Fisher, found that UM, after
26:51
Speaker 1: over time, the same process is greatly degraded. I think
26:56
Speaker 1: they did a follow up in well months, Congress says, uh,
27:02
Speaker 1: I found that the whole process and in all of
27:04
Speaker 1: the neurochemicals and the brain regions are much less active,
27:08
Speaker 1: which again just time, give it time, right. But if
27:12
Speaker 1: you don't give it time and you do the thing
27:14
Speaker 1: where you do get back together, UH, that that can
27:17
Speaker 1: be great. You know it's UM. Sometimes you can work
27:19
Speaker 1: it out and people can't change UM. But there's a
27:22
Speaker 1: big caveat there. Well, right, go ahead, no no, no,
27:26
Speaker 1: no you you say yours okay, because I think I'm
27:29
Speaker 1: talking about something else. So UM. What I saw was
27:32
Speaker 1: that if you get back together, rather than saying like
27:36
Speaker 1: this is a fresh start, we're gonna try this over again, UM,
27:40
Speaker 1: we're gonna really make a go of it. If you
27:43
Speaker 1: do that, all you're going to do is just walk
27:44
Speaker 1: right back into the same pitfalls and pratfalls because the
27:47
Speaker 1: separation probably did nothing or virtually nothing to your individual personalities,
27:53
Speaker 1: which are the source of all of your conflicts. So
27:56
Speaker 1: it's not like you just magically worked your conflicts out
27:59
Speaker 1: and you're getting back together there and everything's fine. That's
28:01
Speaker 1: just a charade. But if you get back together and
28:05
Speaker 1: say I decided I love you the way you are
28:08
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be away from you, and
28:10
Speaker 1: I just accept you for you, and I accept our
28:14
Speaker 1: relationship with all of its problems, you're probably going to
28:17
Speaker 1: have a successful reunion. If you go into it like
28:20
Speaker 1: all of our problems are solved because we broke up.
28:23
Speaker 1: You're just going to do the same thing again down
28:25
Speaker 1: the line. And that's apparently a fairly frequent thing. That
28:28
Speaker 1: something like six or some crazy percentage of UM younger
28:34
Speaker 1: the younger generation generation. Why I guess um the process
28:39
Speaker 1: of breaking up the majority of them that that breakup
28:42
Speaker 1: involves getting back together multiple times, not just once. Yeah,
28:47
Speaker 1: so they're you're getting back together and just going through
28:49
Speaker 1: the same pattern. I think there's a field of thought
28:51
Speaker 1: and psychology called scripts. These are scripts that we're playing
28:55
Speaker 1: out one another scripts, and if you don't alter the script,
28:58
Speaker 1: you're gonna go through the same script over and over again. Uh,
29:01
Speaker 1: You're you're working out the same things from your past
29:04
Speaker 1: or from your childhood against one another, and you're not
29:06
Speaker 1: doing it in the right way. So all you're doing
29:09
Speaker 1: is creating conflict. And that doesn't just magically go away
29:12
Speaker 1: because you spend a couple of months apart. You have
29:14
Speaker 1: to just say I love you for who you are
29:17
Speaker 1: and we're going to just just keep going. Yeah, I
29:19
Speaker 1: think what I was gonna say was, Um, don't they
29:21
Speaker 1: think though? That that also depends on just what kind
29:23
Speaker 1: of person you are in terms of thinking. Either people
29:28
Speaker 1: can really make substantial change in their lives or they can't.
29:31
Speaker 1: That's how how you deal with a breakup, which we'll
29:34
Speaker 1: talk about in a minute. That sounds like a good
29:36
Speaker 1: place for a break I think so too, all right,
30:06
Speaker 1: before we get to that, what we were just talking
30:09
Speaker 1: about before the split. Um, this is one piece of
30:12
Speaker 1: data UM from the same sex couple community. Supposedly from studies,
30:18
Speaker 1: they do think that same sex couples are better at
30:20
Speaker 1: staying friends. Yeah, I saw that after a breakup, which
30:26
Speaker 1: particularly UM lesbian couples, yeah, and then gay men and
30:32
Speaker 1: then straight couples are like, forget about it. Yeah, it's
30:38
Speaker 1: an interesting thing. Can you really be friends after And
30:41
Speaker 1: it all depends on how intense and how long and
30:44
Speaker 1: and how kind of a person you are, But um, yeah,
30:48
Speaker 1: it's interesting when I meet people that legitimately are friends
30:52
Speaker 1: with people that they seriously dated years later. It's pretty rare,
30:55
Speaker 1: I think. Actually, I think it's too. I think it
30:57
Speaker 1: seems less rare because you see it on TV shows
31:01
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, um, And it's also almost aspirational, like, oh,
31:06
Speaker 1: look at how like how laid back and like with
31:09
Speaker 1: these people are that they can be friends after this,
31:11
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think it's pretty rare. Actually, I
31:14
Speaker 1: think it's an idealized form because people like to you
31:18
Speaker 1: like to think that like you're on good terms with
31:20
Speaker 1: everybody in your life. I think that's usually the person
31:23
Speaker 1: breaking up though. There it's like I'd like to still
31:25
Speaker 1: be friends, whereas the person getting broken up with it
31:28
Speaker 1: like or you could get it by car, right, yeah,
31:30
Speaker 1: and that would solve the problem. Um. And then sticking
31:33
Speaker 1: with the whole same sex straight thing, are we saying straight? Still?
31:39
Speaker 1: I don't know that doesn't feel right, does it. It doesn't,
31:43
Speaker 1: So let's just say same sex and hetero. Yeah, hetero,
31:48
Speaker 1: there's a there's a clinical name for it. Boy. Um
31:51
Speaker 1: so uh. The time and marriage seemed to be the
31:57
Speaker 1: two greatest indicators, at least as far as this one
31:59
Speaker 1: study I saw went um for the likelihood of staying
32:03
Speaker 1: together over long periods of time. Like all relationships, same
32:07
Speaker 1: sex and hetero um man woman, all of them are
32:13
Speaker 1: in at the greatest risk of breakup within the first
32:16
Speaker 1: year or two, and then it starts to drop precipitously.
32:19
Speaker 1: But I think married hetero couples have a fairly low
32:26
Speaker 1: rate of a low chance of breaking up over time
32:30
Speaker 1: is pretty much flat the whole time, um say. And
32:34
Speaker 1: then with same sex couples, the same thing happens. That
32:37
Speaker 1: the chance to break up is pretty high at the beginning,
32:39
Speaker 1: and then it starts to come down, and then it's
32:41
Speaker 1: basically tracks with hetero couples for marriage. So marriage is
32:46
Speaker 1: kind of the factor. Time is a second factor, but
32:49
Speaker 1: then time stops being a factor after like thirty or
32:53
Speaker 1: forty years. For unmarried couples both hetero and same sex,
32:57
Speaker 1: they started to break up after year like thirty or forty,
33:00
Speaker 1: Like the chance of a breakup increases. Yeah, but once
33:03
Speaker 1: you get married, once you get a ring on it,
33:05
Speaker 1: um over time, over like you know, decades is what
33:08
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Your chance is almost nil of of
33:11
Speaker 1: breaking up all right, like less than I think a percent.
33:15
Speaker 1: But that doesn't sound right because that the like half
33:18
Speaker 1: of all marriages into divorce. Yeah, this thing was way off,
33:23
Speaker 1: but maybe that's when taking into account maybe that's frontloaded
33:26
Speaker 1: by all the divorce that happened the first five years
33:28
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, OK, that would make a
33:30
Speaker 1: little bit more sense. They do find that your chances
33:34
Speaker 1: of getting over a breakup or adjusting to that new
33:37
Speaker 1: post breakup life, um, really centers around regaining your sense
33:43
Speaker 1: of self. Um that when you couple up with someone. Uh.
33:49
Speaker 1: It's not saying you can't have a sense of self anymore,
33:51
Speaker 1: because it's very healthy too. But there's an inevitable um
33:55
Speaker 1: absorption and morphing that happens, and a little bit of
34:00
Speaker 1: your sense of self goes away when you couple. Yeah,
34:03
Speaker 1: all the same friends, the same phone number, yeah, and
34:06
Speaker 1: the same madre yes. Yeah boy? What about couples that
34:10
Speaker 1: share the email address? Yeah? You mean I have one
34:13
Speaker 1: really never had one, But you have your own too, Well, yeah,
34:17
Speaker 1: we just have our own, but we have our shared
34:18
Speaker 1: one too. I think I'm talking about the people that
34:20
Speaker 1: just have the shared address. I've always found that interesting. Yeah,
34:23
Speaker 1: I'm judging. I don't know anybody who just has a
34:26
Speaker 1: shared address. I don't get why people would have the
34:28
Speaker 1: same one. I guess I just always Emily says a
34:30
Speaker 1: mind spring address. Wow, is it Emily at MindSpring dot com? No?
34:36
Speaker 1: And that is the truth, because I'm not saying that
34:38
Speaker 1: just to keep people from emailing her. But she's she
34:41
Speaker 1: had it for so long and I make fun of
34:43
Speaker 1: her all the time because she still pays like twenty
34:46
Speaker 1: dollars a year for this what And she was like,
34:49
Speaker 1: I've had it for so long that I just can't
34:52
Speaker 1: give it up. Well, that's why people stay on Facebook. Yeah, Like,
34:54
Speaker 1: I'm not changing my email address. There's like many memories there.
34:58
Speaker 1: It's like even that just contech list and every email. Like,
35:02
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think it's funny. I was like,
35:03
Speaker 1: where's that money going? Who owns mind Spring? The air
35:08
Speaker 1: of the mind spring fortune? He can count on twenty
35:12
Speaker 1: bucks a month back of cigarettes every months because oh man. UM.
35:19
Speaker 1: And then for recovery, uh, the the whole stress related
35:24
Speaker 1: growth thing that can happen with recovery, which is UM.
35:27
Speaker 1: And I think women tend to be more apt to
35:30
Speaker 1: do this than man. But like, all right, you know what,
35:33
Speaker 1: I'm free now, I'm gonna do all those things that
35:36
Speaker 1: I lost while I was with him. It didn't have
35:39
Speaker 1: time for my friends anymore. I lost connections with them.
35:42
Speaker 1: I didn't do I didn't fly model airplanes or RC
35:45
Speaker 1: airplanes any I'm gonna drop some weight. I'm gonna start
35:47
Speaker 1: eating healthier. The post breakup weight loss is a huge,
35:50
Speaker 1: huge thing. It is, and partially from stress, but partially
35:53
Speaker 1: just because like I'm gonna make myself the best I
35:56
Speaker 1: can be and I'll show her or him. I think
35:59
Speaker 1: it's also like, um, just as simple as like more
36:02
Speaker 1: free time, you know too, and something to do that is,
36:06
Speaker 1: you know, exercises also stress relieving. UM, you might not
36:10
Speaker 1: be eating as much because your stomach is tied up
36:13
Speaker 1: into stress. Not so there are a bunch of reasons
36:16
Speaker 1: for it. But here is that here's where that um,
36:19
Speaker 1: that part you're talking about earlier I said we would
36:21
Speaker 1: get too kind of kicks in is how much of
36:25
Speaker 1: the self you identify with UM does relate to how
36:30
Speaker 1: well you handle a break up, how much of your
36:32
Speaker 1: how much of the U is the we in the relationship?
36:36
Speaker 1: And what they found is that that's a huge part
36:38
Speaker 1: of it, but more significant is the amount of growth
36:42
Speaker 1: that happens while you're in a relationship. Like you can
36:45
Speaker 1: share a tremendous amount of the same self with your
36:48
Speaker 1: significant other and grow as a person as a result.
36:52
Speaker 1: And if you do that, UM, you're actually going to
36:55
Speaker 1: have a harder breakup because that we that that uper
37:00
Speaker 1: attachment UM that led to that personal growth is related
37:04
Speaker 1: to that other person who's now gone. Whereas if you
37:07
Speaker 1: were even if you were totally in messed with another person,
37:11
Speaker 1: but you didn't grow much personally, if you experience a
37:14
Speaker 1: burst of growth after the breakup, you're going to have
37:17
Speaker 1: the easiest breakup of all. Even though you were super
37:20
Speaker 1: in messed with the person, you weren't growing. But then
37:23
Speaker 1: you grow afterward. Now that period of non growth is
37:27
Speaker 1: related to that person who's gone, And you can be like,
37:30
Speaker 1: so long zero, I'm gonna make myself a hero. Yeah,
37:36
Speaker 1: do you see sure? Did they come across? Yeah? Because
37:39
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm not the best at explaining things, which is
37:43
Speaker 1: pretty funny if you think about it, there really is UM.
37:47
Speaker 1: In two thousand, they did a study at Northwestern University
37:51
Speaker 1: where they did find out though that UM. They asked people,
37:55
Speaker 1: I believe, how bad do you think this breakup is
38:00
Speaker 1: going to be? If you if you you know, you're
38:02
Speaker 1: in a relationship, what if you broke up? And then
38:05
Speaker 1: they found out that they weren't as bad off as
38:09
Speaker 1: they thought they would be, which is encouraging, it is,
38:11
Speaker 1: but also think about this, chuck, These vultures who are
38:14
Speaker 1: running the study where like, you're in a relationship, just
38:17
Speaker 1: just we're going to study just in case you guys
38:20
Speaker 1: break up, And so they would get that info, that
38:23
Speaker 1: self reporting info about how bad the breakup would be,
38:26
Speaker 1: and then they swooped in upon the breakup there like
38:29
Speaker 1: how bad is it? Tell us? And the person was like, well,
38:33
Speaker 1: this is as bad as it is. And it was
38:35
Speaker 1: almost across the board, not not anywhere near as bad
38:39
Speaker 1: as the people thought it would be when they were
38:42
Speaker 1: in the relationship, which is pretty surprising. And what was
38:45
Speaker 1: even more surprising is the more in love you are,
38:48
Speaker 1: the easier it's going to be relative to how bad
38:52
Speaker 1: do you think it will be during the relations, Which
38:55
Speaker 1: makes sense if you stop and think about it. Yeah.
38:57
Speaker 1: I thought the other interesting thing too when we were
38:59
Speaker 1: talking to out, um getting over a breakup in your
39:03
Speaker 1: sense of self that's closely tied to how you feel
39:07
Speaker 1: about rejection and um, there are a couple of I
39:11
Speaker 1: mean more than a couple of ways. But if your
39:15
Speaker 1: reflection of your how you think about rejection is tied
39:20
Speaker 1: heavily into how you feel about yourself, So there's some
39:22
Speaker 1: people that might be rejected and it might devastate them
39:26
Speaker 1: because they start to analyze themselves and what did I
39:29
Speaker 1: do wrong? And what's wrong with me? There's a whole
39:32
Speaker 1: other camp out there, And I think this goes into
39:35
Speaker 1: personality and ego and all that stuff. But you call
39:38
Speaker 1: these people healthy or sociopaths. Oh you think so? Maybe
39:45
Speaker 1: I just we just put both of our cards on
39:48
Speaker 1: this table. Then. But the people that are like, yeah,
39:52
Speaker 1: I got broken up with and I but and I
39:54
Speaker 1: got rejected. But you know, as happens that happens in life.
39:58
Speaker 1: People get rejected. It's not because of me, I thought
40:00
Speaker 1: everyone you know, so you find it, you find this
40:03
Speaker 1: quote sociopathic. I learned that two people can both be
40:06
Speaker 1: quality individuals, but that doesn't mean they belong together. That's
40:09
Speaker 1: sociopathic to you. That's that was Oh wait it says
40:13
Speaker 1: you said that it was dead Bundy Patrick Bateman. No, no no, no,
40:17
Speaker 1: I don't think it necessarily means you're a sociopath. But
40:20
Speaker 1: I think someone with that is a true sociopath would
40:23
Speaker 1: probably be way more apt to be like, oh yeah,
40:27
Speaker 1: well it was them, not me. Yeah, it's like it's fine, breakup.
40:31
Speaker 1: There's a sub subgroup to that sociopath as you call
40:34
Speaker 1: it camp, and they are like, well, breakups happen. Um,
40:38
Speaker 1: I heard what the other person said, and there's some
40:41
Speaker 1: things that I feel like I need to work on,
40:43
Speaker 1: Like sin, I was a terrible communicator, so I'm gonna
40:46
Speaker 1: work on becoming a better communicator as a result. It's
40:49
Speaker 1: called stress related growth is what that's called. Where you're
40:52
Speaker 1: growing out of this horrific experience. Um, and that's healthy,
40:57
Speaker 1: that's super healthy. But they the key is what's unhealthy
41:02
Speaker 1: is to say this was all because of some fatal
41:06
Speaker 1: flaw that I have, that's part of my personality that
41:09
Speaker 1: I'll never be able to get rid of. And so
41:11
Speaker 1: all I'm going to do is poison every relationship from
41:14
Speaker 1: here on out, and I'm just gonna build walls and
41:16
Speaker 1: keep everybody at a distance. And that's just some people
41:18
Speaker 1: do as a result of a breakup, and you can't
41:21
Speaker 1: do that. Even if your brain starts to go that way,
41:24
Speaker 1: this research says, stop it. Don't you have to disassociate
41:29
Speaker 1: yourself become the sociopath. I guess if need be to say,
41:34
Speaker 1: this is not because of an inherent flaw in me
41:38
Speaker 1: that's uncorrectable. Even if the person was right, even if
41:41
Speaker 1: they're like, you're a terrible communicator and you have serious
41:45
Speaker 1: mommy issues, that doesn't mean that you will always be
41:49
Speaker 1: a terrible communicator with serious mommy issues. You could work
41:53
Speaker 1: on those post breakup and become a much better s
41:57
Speaker 1: O to the next person or whatever. The key is
42:01
Speaker 1: not not being a fatalist, like there's nothing you can
42:04
Speaker 1: do to change. And then also you should evaluate whether
42:07
Speaker 1: the person was saying that in anger, how much faith
42:10
Speaker 1: you put in their opinion of you. There's a lot
42:12
Speaker 1: of factors that you need to take into account before
42:15
Speaker 1: you take on that kind of thing that just puts
42:18
Speaker 1: you in the bottom of a well where you could
42:21
Speaker 1: conceivably hang out for the rest of your life if
42:24
Speaker 1: you're not careful without copious amounts of therapy, agreed, or
42:29
Speaker 1: turning the drugs and alcohol, which is a big, yeah,
42:33
Speaker 1: big thing that a lot of people do. Jim cuts
42:35
Speaker 1: both ways. Uh, should we talk about some of these
42:37
Speaker 1: tips from this guy psychologist Guy Winch. Remember number one is, um,
42:42
Speaker 1: don't check up on them on social media. Here's why.
42:46
Speaker 1: He says that this will reinforce your excess presence in
42:49
Speaker 1: your mind and will make it harder for you to
42:52
Speaker 1: stop fantasizing about your broken relationship. You're basically just like
42:56
Speaker 1: literally keeping them right there in front of your face
43:00
Speaker 1: through social media. Yeah, which is why it's a bad
43:02
Speaker 1: idea to avoid creating mysteries about why the breakup happened.
43:10
Speaker 1: And again, this is along those same lines of just
43:12
Speaker 1: keeping your ex like forefront in your mind, which is hard.
43:17
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna take a little while. It's makes
43:21
Speaker 1: day to pop up and just be like, well, they're
43:23
Speaker 1: out of my mind. That's sociopathic. Yeah, even if you're
43:26
Speaker 1: the breaker upper, Um, you know, it doesn't mean that
43:30
Speaker 1: you don't have a process to go through as well. Sure,
43:32
Speaker 1: you know, but That's why he says, avoid creating mysteries
43:35
Speaker 1: like it's it's probably going to happen, but like be
43:37
Speaker 1: mindful when it's going on and be like enough, I'm
43:40
Speaker 1: gonna go work out, yeah, or go drink some gin
43:43
Speaker 1: or both. Uh. Number three, Make a list of all
43:46
Speaker 1: the comper this is a good one. Make a list
43:48
Speaker 1: of all the compromises that you had to make that
43:51
Speaker 1: you don't want to make again, and start to think about, like, yeah,
43:54
Speaker 1: you know, when I was with this person, I felt
43:56
Speaker 1: like I could never really have my real sense of
43:59
Speaker 1: humor out in public because they thought it was loud.
44:02
Speaker 1: The counters that that um that rehashing, that just focuses
44:08
Speaker 1: on the positive. It cuts the legs out from under
44:11
Speaker 1: that cutting legs. What about number four? Do the things
44:14
Speaker 1: that used to bring you enjoyment is kind of what
44:16
Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, even if they don't seem
44:19
Speaker 1: interesting now. That whole thing where like, jeez, I used
44:21
Speaker 1: to really love pottery and throwing clay, and I just
44:27
Speaker 1: I quit doing it once I started dating Josh. Yeah
44:32
Speaker 1: in my house uh, And Josh hated it when Chuck
44:36
Speaker 1: went to the Potter's Wheel because it reminded him of
44:39
Speaker 1: Ghost and Josh hated that movie, so he wouldn't allow
44:42
Speaker 1: me to do it. But you know what, I'm gonna
44:44
Speaker 1: reclaim that pottery wheel, which is ironic because I was
44:48
Speaker 1: always walking around our house just like Patrick Swayzey in
44:51
Speaker 1: that scene. But I still hated that movie. Oh that
44:57
Speaker 1: was more like the Chris Farley chipping Dale Patrick Swazy version.
45:02
Speaker 1: Um number five, remove reminders, Um, this is the box
45:06
Speaker 1: that you will burn, which is now just a your
45:09
Speaker 1: laptop in the fireplace, right in your smartphone, and then
45:13
Speaker 1: like reconnect with your friends, like, yeah, you left him
45:15
Speaker 1: in the dusty years ago, but they're still alive and
45:18
Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't mind hearing from you. Yeah. The problem
45:20
Speaker 1: here is is if you truly do have a mix
45:23
Speaker 1: of friends that you both love, and it's not like
45:26
Speaker 1: I didn't leave behind all my old friends or the
45:29
Speaker 1: worst case scenarios like all of my friends are from you.
45:33
Speaker 1: Now what do I do? Go down to the Y
45:35
Speaker 1: m c A and make some new friends? I guess.
45:38
Speaker 1: So I found this one last study I thought was interesting,
45:42
Speaker 1: The best way to get over a breakup according to science.
45:45
Speaker 1: This is actually published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology.
45:49
Speaker 1: UH and they tested a bunch of strategies. We're getting
45:53
Speaker 1: over a breakup, twenty four heartbroken people. They just thirty
45:58
Speaker 1: seven that had in and at least a two and
46:01
Speaker 1: a half year relationship, so pretty significant. Some were dumpy,
46:04
Speaker 1: some were dumpers. And they said there were three strategies.
46:08
Speaker 1: One is too negatively re appraise your ex. I just
46:12
Speaker 1: think about all the bad things. Um. The other one
46:16
Speaker 1: was called love reappraisal, which is, uh, believe in read
46:21
Speaker 1: statements like it's okay to love someone I'm no longer with,
46:25
Speaker 1: It's all right. And then the third was distraction literally
46:29
Speaker 1: the ice cream and movies drake, the black mirror trick.
46:35
Speaker 1: And then there was the fourth prompt, which was the control,
46:37
Speaker 1: which was don't think about anything. Of course means you're
46:40
Speaker 1: thinking of the state of March about I don't think
46:41
Speaker 1: about anything really, just undermine the science of that. Clear
46:46
Speaker 1: your brain. So those were the four prompts. Then they
46:49
Speaker 1: showed everyone They hooked everyone up to an E e
46:51
Speaker 1: G machine, showed them photos of their exes, and they
46:55
Speaker 1: measured the intensity of emotion in response to that photo,
46:59
Speaker 1: and then had them use these different prompts to see
47:02
Speaker 1: like which one works best when they looked in the
47:05
Speaker 1: people who were not thinking about anything, they were bleeding
47:07
Speaker 1: out of their eyes, sucking. They were um And according
47:11
Speaker 1: to the readings, all three, all three of the strategies
47:14
Speaker 1: significantly decrease their emotional response through the photos relative to
47:20
Speaker 1: the control. Um. If you looked at your ex in
47:25
Speaker 1: a negative light that first one, like they was such
47:27
Speaker 1: a jerk, you had a decrease in feelings of love.
47:31
Speaker 1: But you left in a worse mood like that drudged
47:34
Speaker 1: up bad feelings like you you wasted your time or
47:36
Speaker 1: something that maybe or just like just really took me
47:40
Speaker 1: off thinking about all that stuff. Right, you know? So
47:42
Speaker 1: now did dump study some clay? That's right? Uh, distraction
47:49
Speaker 1: made feel made you feel better overall, Um, but didn't
47:54
Speaker 1: that have much of an effect on how you really
47:56
Speaker 1: felt about them? You just didn't leave in a necessarily
47:59
Speaker 1: a bad mood. You just got ice cream and watched
48:01
Speaker 1: funny movie good enough, which is fine. But they said
48:03
Speaker 1: that that doesn't do anything long term to help you recover,
48:07
Speaker 1: just like a temporary whatever does it prolong it? Though?
48:09
Speaker 1: Do you think? I mean, you know, as much as
48:12
Speaker 1: the people conducted it said, it's a form of avoidance
48:16
Speaker 1: that is shown to reduce the recovery. Okay, so it
48:19
Speaker 1: would prolong it. Then I guess everybody stop eating ice
48:22
Speaker 1: cream and watching Black Mirror. Uh. And then Love Appraisal
48:25
Speaker 1: showed no effect on your mood or how you feel
48:28
Speaker 1: about them, but it did dull the emotional response a
48:32
Speaker 1: little bit. So there's really nothing to do. Doesn't sound
48:36
Speaker 1: like it. I saw a couple more tips. One is,
48:40
Speaker 1: you can write a letter that, under no circumstances will
48:43
Speaker 1: you ever send. Yeah, that's a good trick relationships. It's
48:48
Speaker 1: like anything bothering her. It also really works well for
48:51
Speaker 1: grieving too. Um, you just write a letter and you
48:55
Speaker 1: say whatever you want because you know for a fact
48:57
Speaker 1: that the other person will never read it. Dear, you
49:00
Speaker 1: can say whatever you want, and it's just like a
49:02
Speaker 1: cathartic process that can help hasten things. And then also,
49:06
Speaker 1: why do sad songs feel so good when you're going
49:11
Speaker 1: through a breakup? Why do people seek out sad songs?
49:14
Speaker 1: And the best explanation I saw, the best theory is
49:17
Speaker 1: that a song is a little capsule of emotion, and
49:21
Speaker 1: when you're seeking out a sad song, you're confronting the
49:23
Speaker 1: very emotions that you're probably stifling right then, and confronting
49:28
Speaker 1: it in such a raw form forces you to express
49:31
Speaker 1: those emotions i e. Cry and that helps you process
49:36
Speaker 1: them faster because you're you're not pushing them off any longer.
49:39
Speaker 1: You're you're you're you're expressing them, you're sorting through them.
49:43
Speaker 1: So that's what sad songs make you do. That's why
49:45
Speaker 1: people seek out sad songs when they're down, and it
49:48
Speaker 1: actually helps hasten recovery. Lady and Red, I don't think
49:55
Speaker 1: that's a sad standing with me. That's the saddest song.
49:59
Speaker 1: You're like, it takes me away? That uh sailing by
50:05
Speaker 1: Christopher Cross A lady in Red and then um Dan
50:08
Speaker 1: Vogelberg's saying, same old anxide three set a song. Jerry
50:12
Speaker 1: knows that song. Those were two Christopher Cross songs. He's
50:15
Speaker 1: got two of the three sets. Lady and Red's not
50:17
Speaker 1: Christopher Cross. I think it is five dollars Jerry. We're
50:22
Speaker 1: all nodding now, five dollars is on the table. All right,
50:25
Speaker 1: I'll look it up. Well, you guys will find out
50:28
Speaker 1: next episode whether I was right or not. I remember
50:30
Speaker 1: the guy's name. It's Christopher Cross. Oh, Jerry's rare is
50:36
Speaker 1: doing one of her rare speaking parts. She says, Chris
50:39
Speaker 1: Christoph Waltz, that's the actor. You know what's funny is
50:43
Speaker 1: I miss type something and it changed my search to
50:46
Speaker 1: Lady in Red Wings like red Wing boot must be
50:50
Speaker 1: a fetish site, I guess. So yeah, Well, while Chuck's
50:53
Speaker 1: doing that, if you want to know more about breakups,
50:56
Speaker 1: go read about them, because that's way better than going
50:58
Speaker 1: through them. Uh. And since we said that, it's time
51:01
Speaker 1: for listener mail. Well no, no, First of all, that
51:04
Speaker 1: is Christin burg Um. Who is Krista Berg. It's a
51:09
Speaker 1: it's amazing burg Oh, I got you, not Krista burgh
51:13
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I think he was a one hit wonder.
51:17
Speaker 1: Probably he's British Okay art rock performer. Lady in bed
51:22
Speaker 1: Night says, wow, So Christopher Cross did not have that song? No,
51:27
Speaker 1: he's great to look so no, no, no, no listener mail.
51:31
Speaker 1: Let's get the How the Money guys in here. So
51:36
Speaker 1: here we are everybody, as promised, we have a very
51:38
Speaker 1: special non listener mail listener mail segment. Instead, we're gonna
51:42
Speaker 1: hang out with Joel and Matt, the dudes from How
51:45
Speaker 1: to Money. So welcome guys. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah,
51:48
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for being here. Listen
51:50
Speaker 1: to those voices, right, podcasting voices for We've been working
51:54
Speaker 1: on him. It takes a while, you know, to develop
51:56
Speaker 1: a voice this golden, but it takes time, but you
51:58
Speaker 1: get there, you know, yes, you know, I've just learned
52:00
Speaker 1: the English language. So so how this all happened was
52:05
Speaker 1: my friend from high school is a mutual friend of yours,
52:07
Speaker 1: Matt keg stand Todd. He got in touch to via
52:12
Speaker 1: social media and said, hey, I got these friends. It
52:14
Speaker 1: was sort of that thing that everyone dreads, which is
52:16
Speaker 1: like they have a podcast, would you have coffee with them?
52:19
Speaker 1: And then I listened to the show and it was great,
52:22
Speaker 1: and I was like, you guys are sort of doing
52:24
Speaker 1: and stuff you should know. He approach to finance and
52:28
Speaker 1: would you join our network? And it was kind of
52:29
Speaker 1: that simple. Yeah. The thing is is it wasn't a mistake, right,
52:33
Speaker 1: Like we've I've been a fan of s Y s
52:35
Speaker 1: K for for years and the approach of just talking
52:39
Speaker 1: about things that you're interested or that you find, you know,
52:41
Speaker 1: a curiosity, and it was it was a huge draw
52:44
Speaker 1: to finding a way to talk about money in a
52:46
Speaker 1: way that was helpful, uh to folks out there needing
52:49
Speaker 1: help with their finances. Yeah. That's the key, isn't it,
52:52
Speaker 1: Just to like be actually interested in what you're talking about. Yeah, So, like,
52:56
Speaker 1: what are some of the topics you guys cover typically? Yeah,
52:58
Speaker 1: so we cover all sorts of topics really more than anything,
53:01
Speaker 1: stuff that interests Matt and I, and so we cover Uh.
53:05
Speaker 1: We just realized that every time we got together, when
53:07
Speaker 1: we end up talking about money related issues, that's just
53:09
Speaker 1: kind of what we care about. And so we wanted
53:11
Speaker 1: to help people figure out how to handle their money
53:14
Speaker 1: better because it's like a huge issue, right, And so
53:16
Speaker 1: we talked about tax refunds, We talked about student loan debt.
53:19
Speaker 1: We talk about how investing is like so much simpler
53:22
Speaker 1: than you think it is. There's this concertative effort to
53:25
Speaker 1: make it seem like it's a really hard thing, and
53:27
Speaker 1: people they get there, they get their panties in a
53:29
Speaker 1: lot because they don't know how to invest, and they
53:31
Speaker 1: decide not to do it at all because it's so hard, right,
53:33
Speaker 1: And so we want to just help people make it easier.
53:36
Speaker 1: So it's like a public service. Basically, you for doing
53:41
Speaker 1: that because there is a lot of like scary thought
53:44
Speaker 1: and um it just fear of the unknown for sure
53:47
Speaker 1: with finances and a lot of people have problems with money.
53:50
Speaker 1: So to go out there and do that to to
53:53
Speaker 1: explain it to whipping into shape for people, um is
53:56
Speaker 1: it's it's hats off. Yeah. I mean there's just not
53:59
Speaker 1: come station happening around personal finance, Like right, fewer folks
54:03
Speaker 1: were talking about it that that that need to actually
54:06
Speaker 1: be be discussing it, right, It needs to be talked
54:08
Speaker 1: about more. And I think you know, by leading by
54:11
Speaker 1: example to a certain extent, by talking about it and
54:13
Speaker 1: having conversations about it like that alone kind of demystifies
54:17
Speaker 1: these you know, financial topics and principles. And you know,
54:21
Speaker 1: if we can do that and encourage conversation through the show,
54:24
Speaker 1: through the podcast, then you know, we see that as
54:26
Speaker 1: a as a huge win. Yeah. I think the danger
54:29
Speaker 1: for especially like um, younger listeners and millennials, that they
54:34
Speaker 1: just sort of shut it down because they might think
54:36
Speaker 1: it's boring or it's scary and so I don't even
54:39
Speaker 1: want to like go there. And you guys do it
54:41
Speaker 1: in such an approachable way that it demystifies it and
54:45
Speaker 1: makes it accessible and it really kind of is like
54:47
Speaker 1: a public service in a way. Yeah, so I think
54:51
Speaker 1: it's so uh for Matt and I to to do
54:54
Speaker 1: this show right first, it just came out of what
54:56
Speaker 1: we generally talk about, like, Hey, what do we do
54:59
Speaker 1: when we get together. We drink a beer and we
55:01
Speaker 1: talk about money, and so on the show we drink
55:02
Speaker 1: a beer too, which is part of our kind of approach,
55:04
Speaker 1: like let's just be normal human beings that talk about money,
55:07
Speaker 1: that care about this stuff. And so it's been really, honestly,
55:10
Speaker 1: it's been super cool to see the listeners respond, to
55:13
Speaker 1: see them taking action, to hear the sorts of moves
55:16
Speaker 1: that people have made in their financial lives already. And
55:18
Speaker 1: the cool thing, the best part about the whole thing
55:20
Speaker 1: is that at the end of the day, they've they've
55:22
Speaker 1: empowered themselves, right, They they've made a change their own
55:25
Speaker 1: lives that makes their future self so much happier and
55:29
Speaker 1: even honestly there their self today because as you start
55:32
Speaker 1: to kind of take um, take the range of your
55:35
Speaker 1: own financial life back. Uh, there's something that's so free
55:40
Speaker 1: getting out from under debt. There's like no better feeling
55:42
Speaker 1: than that, like you feel like the man doesn't own
55:45
Speaker 1: you anymore, you know, like you're not indebted literally and
55:48
Speaker 1: figuratively at that point. Yeah, but it's like, how do
55:50
Speaker 1: I start, how do I even like get the ball rolling?
55:52
Speaker 1: And that's what keeps people from like sitting on the
55:54
Speaker 1: couch and not doing anything. And so yeah, we want
55:56
Speaker 1: to be that motivating factor but also kind of explain
55:59
Speaker 1: some of us that that typically are shrouded in secrecy. Well,
56:03
Speaker 1: you said, you guys talk about beer a lot on
56:05
Speaker 1: the podcast or it's a part of it's like a
56:08
Speaker 1: third third host kind of another character. Right, it's the
56:11
Speaker 1: Jerry of How to Money. I wish Jerry was a beer. Um,
56:18
Speaker 1: so she'd be long gone by now, though, Um so
56:22
Speaker 1: have what beer have you come across that is expensive
56:26
Speaker 1: but worth the outlay in your opinion? I mean I would. So.
56:31
Speaker 1: One of the reasons we have the beer on the
56:32
Speaker 1: show is that it's an example of us focusing on
56:35
Speaker 1: enjoying life now while also balancing saving for the future. Yeah.
56:39
Speaker 1: That's important. Yeah, because a lot of times folks get
56:41
Speaker 1: too caught up in u compounding interest calculators and they
56:44
Speaker 1: look ahead and they say, man if I don't spend
56:46
Speaker 1: another ten bucks this month like that back thousands and
56:49
Speaker 1: thousands down the road, and what happens is folks end
56:52
Speaker 1: up just depriving themselves of of things that they enjoy
56:55
Speaker 1: now or something, but with money, yes, exactly, And so
57:02
Speaker 1: pretty much any beer that we know we want to
57:04
Speaker 1: have on the show. Certainly there's some that are better
57:06
Speaker 1: than others, but we enjoy every single one that we
57:09
Speaker 1: have on because it's a it's an example, it's an
57:11
Speaker 1: illustration of us taking time, taking time for ourselves, you know,
57:15
Speaker 1: like we don't do that enough, but but really it
57:17
Speaker 1: is a huge part of the show, and we felt
57:19
Speaker 1: that it was always important that we maintained that, Uh,
57:22
Speaker 1: that we maintained that in the podcast. The fact that
57:24
Speaker 1: you don't discriminate from beer to beer. I just I
57:28
Speaker 1: love both of you. Hats off to you again. Well,
57:33
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are the mystifying the process. You're
57:36
Speaker 1: making finance um interesting and funny, and uh I I
57:41
Speaker 1: feel great that you guys thought of us as an
57:43
Speaker 1: inspiration for doing that, and uh, I think you really
57:46
Speaker 1: are doing a great service. So, like, if you're out
57:48
Speaker 1: there in podcast land and finance scares you or bores
57:52
Speaker 1: you like, listen to How the Money for Real, because
57:55
Speaker 1: it can. It can be a great sidekick and a
57:58
Speaker 1: teacher for you. Thanks. Thanks, guys, We appreciate it. And um, yeah,
58:02
Speaker 1: we're just glad to be a part of the network
58:03
Speaker 1: and we love what you guys are doing. Great too, man,
58:06
Speaker 1: thanks man, thanks so much. It's a lot of fun
58:08
Speaker 1: to be part of the family for sure. Yeah. And
58:10
Speaker 1: so they can find you, guys, what on Apple? Podcasts,
58:13
Speaker 1: on iHeart radio app everywhere they get podcasts, okay, great?
58:17
Speaker 1: And when do you publish Mondays and Wednesdays? What's your
58:21
Speaker 1: social Oh, let'sten how to Money pod? Pretty much everywhere,
58:25
Speaker 1: I believe, yes. And the best part is our Facebook group,
58:27
Speaker 1: so if you want to join in there there's over
58:29
Speaker 1: a thousand people asking each other questions, commenting, and that's
58:32
Speaker 1: the community is super fun. Yeah. The fact that the
58:34
Speaker 1: community has sort of formed around the show. Yeah, there's
58:37
Speaker 1: folks helping each other out and you know, asking questions,
58:40
Speaker 1: answering other questions of stuff that they do know about.
58:43
Speaker 1: That is super cool. Like between that and the emails
58:46
Speaker 1: that we receive of folks, you know, explaining how they
58:48
Speaker 1: have created a budget for the first time ever, or
58:51
Speaker 1: I'm starting to set aside money towards you know, putting
58:54
Speaker 1: money in my four oh one k uh, finally accepting
58:57
Speaker 1: the employer match, like just different things, Like it's so rewarding,
59:01
Speaker 1: it's huge. I wish I would have had this show
59:03
Speaker 1: because I was a late bloomer, uh in knowing anything
59:06
Speaker 1: about finances. So if I would have had the show
59:08
Speaker 1: on my twenties, I'd be a lot further along then
59:10
Speaker 1: I am today. Goes. If only weekend time travel, you know,
59:13
Speaker 1: exactly getting the way back, I'd be richer and slimmer.
59:18
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming by you guys who appreciate it. Uh.
59:21
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with me, Chuck
59:23
Speaker 1: or Jerry, you can shoot us an email to stuff
59:26
Speaker 1: podcast how stuff Works dot for more on this and
59:34
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot
59:36
Speaker 1: com