Latest / The Managing Partners' Table / Ep 1: How to Build a Law Firm That Doesn't Depend on You

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Ep 1: How to Build a Law Firm That Doesn't Depend on You · The Managing Partners' Table

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Amanda Sexton: You're listening to the Managing Partners Table.
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I'm your host, Amanda Sexton, founder of Focus Works Marketing.
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I've spent more than a decade helping law firms grow, and here I talk with managing
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partners about what's working in their firms and what you can take back to yours.
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Whether you're working through a decision or looking for a better
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way forward, pull up a chair Hi.
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Welcome to today's episode of the Managing Partner podcast.
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Today we have with us Shann Chaudhry from the Law Offices of Shann M. Chaudhry,
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a trust and estates and business and real estate practice based out of Texas.
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So I have known Shann for years.
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I am super excited to dig into his journey, and to also catch up and hear a
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little bit about what's been going on and what's worked over the years, and maybe
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what he'd do a little bit differently.
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So Shann, thanks for joining us today.
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Shann Chaudhry: It's my pleasure, Amanda.
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Thanks for having me.
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Amanda Sexton: Absolutely.
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All right.
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Well, let's get into it.
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So I always ask this question 'cause I'm always curious about everyone's
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managing partner origin story.
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So is this something that you always kind of knew that you wanted
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to do, or how did you wind up in the seat of having your own firm?
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Shann Chaudhry: Well, I think I- I've always been the kind of person
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that was going to be an entrepreneur.
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I went to law school, and there was a possibility that I was gonna go
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into family business and after a couple of years of practice, but it
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just didn't end up going that way.
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And, um, it was very clear that I had to, um, be the captain
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of my own ship, so to speak.
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And, uh, you know, there's some… Always the, the pluses and minuses to that, but
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overall it's been a, a great adventure.
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Amanda Sexton: That's… And, uh, the one thing I always say, too, is
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that everyone, you know that it's hard when you're gonna go into it.
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You know that it won't be easy, but there's also no knowing what
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you're even going to get into.
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So how has this been a little bit different than what you
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expected, and maybe even better?
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Shann Chaudhry: You know, I, I don't know what I thought at the beginning.
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I, I, I figured that at some point in time I would potentially have
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an attorney or two working for me or maybe a partner in the law firm.
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But, uh, I, I didn't think that it would sort of get to the
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scale that it is right now.
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I've got, uh, three attorneys that, that work for me.
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I've got a team of 11.
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And I spend more of my time now managing people and, uh, doing, running a
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company as opposed to practicing law.
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I would say, um, 20% of my time or 25% of my time is the actual practice law.
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The rest of it is, like, running the business and doing the
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sales and all of those things.
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So I think that the biggest surprise in the journey was, like, all
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of the things that I didn't know that I needed to know how to do.
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Like, going… Having a business degree and then going to law school
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and then practicing for a while.
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Like, I knew the law.
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I was sort of deprogrammed on, on business stuff.
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And, uh, how to sell, that was something that was not on my radar, something
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that I needed to learn how to do
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Amanda Sexton: That's
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Yeah, I feel like running a business is learning so many skill sets.
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In the beginning, you're wearing a lot of those hats, and some
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of them come off over time.
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But you still have to know what, how d- how to do that.
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So whether it's finances, operation, hiring, firing, um, onboarding,
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all of those pieces are much more in depth than I think anyone
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realizes before they get into it.
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Is there anything that you would do differently?
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Obviously, you know, we all have some changes that we probably would've done
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from when we started to ramp up a little bit faster, but is there anything you
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would've changed about from start to now?
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Shann Chaudhry: I would've hired people faster, and I would have hired other
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professionals to advise me sooner, right?
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Um, I think that a lot of entrepreneurs try to do things themselves, and as I've
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gone through this process, I realized that there are some blind spots that I
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probably had that it would've been great to get other people to give me advice.
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Um, so that's what I always advocate to all the business owners that we
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start representing that are in the startup phase, is stay in your zone of
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genius and hire people to do all of the things, even if you can do it yourself.
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Amanda Sexton: Yeah, that's 100% true.
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What would you say is the best thing that you've outsourced that maybe you
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held onto for a little bit too long?
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Shann Chaudhry: Oh, man.
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Uh, so I have a director of attorney operations, Chris.
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He's been with me for almost eight years now, and, um, he does all our billing.
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Like, he works with the billing team.
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I'll, like, go over and, and, and review, uh, some high-level stuff,
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but all of the invoice reviews and, and all of that stuff, now I've got a
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team of people, and Chris oversees it.
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And there's a control part of me that took a long time to let that go, but
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I am so happy that I did let it go.
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Amanda Sexton: It's helpful to have the right person in the right seat.
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I know that that goes a long way, too.
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And what would you say, too?
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I'd love to dig a little bit more into that title, too, because, uh,
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for what Chris does, I haven't, I haven't heard that title, and so I'd
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be curious kind of what he does and if that's something that if firms are
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listening to, they might say, "Oh, this is something that we should have."
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'Cause it sounds like it's also on the business side of law and the owning the
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business, and I think over the years it's kind of been treated as a cost center
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to have someone in some of those seats.
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But I think the… It sounds like the amount of time that that's
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freed up for you has been pretty considerable, too, so you can focus
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on those sales and other things.
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Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
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I, I think it sort of worked out 'cause Chris and I work well together
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because we have similar philosophies.
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We came up in the practice of law the s- same way.
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We have really good alignment on key portions.
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But I'm more of a visionary person- Mm-hmm … than, uh, than an operations person.
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And I am great at working at my own projects and figuring out complex
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structures and, and, and legal problems and, and how to solve those things.
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And I realized that Chris is better at managing and talking to people, so
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he- He is sort of the, the buffer in between me and the production teams.
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So he'll, uh, meet with the attorneys every morning.
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We have a… Every Monday morning, we have a, a, a company-wide, uh,
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rundown, and we go through all the cases that we're currently working on.
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Before that meeting, Chris has a meeting with all the attorneys, goes through
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the cases, and then handles individual conversations and coaching and, uh,
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having accountability conversations there.
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And then we go through everything as a group.
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And, uh, so that's really nice to have him being able to know
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what's going on, monitor and provide mentorship and insight.
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When I need to get brought into things, I am, or if it's something that's more
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in my specialty, I'll get involved with.
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But, um, generally speaking, he handles a lot of that.
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He handles, um, our, reviewing all of our invoices and, and billing, and, um,
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that's sort of the space that Chris is in.
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Um, he does some consultations as well.
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I would say I still, I probably do, uh, two-thirds of them.
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He maybe does a third of them.
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Um, but it's, it just worked out this way 'cause I, I… There's this idea,
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uh, that you have to hire for these specific seats that exist, and what
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I've realized over the last few years is instead of designing, like finding
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a person to fit into a specific, like, you know, trying to stick a peg
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into a different shaped hole, right?
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It's like, "This person would be great here," or trying to find an exact fit.
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It's like, well, what needs to be done, and sort of creating the
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position around that person's skills.
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So we've done a lot of that with the t- with the, the firm as time has passed,
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is, is like finding people with great talent and then building jobs around them
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Amanda Sexton: That's, yes, I think when, you know, you interview someone
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and you're like, "Maybe this role is not the right fit, but we definitely
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have to find somewhere for you."
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And I'd be curious too how long it took to let go of some of those things to Chris
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and what that transition looked like and over time, um, 'cause I know that that can
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be difficult to let that delegation go.
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And also, if there's anything that you're like, "No matter what happens
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with the firm, these are the things that I feel like I have to hold onto."
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Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
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Um, so the firm has been in existence since 2012, so our… This is our
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14th year in existence, and it… I was a one-man band until 2017,
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2018, and, uh, that's when we really started becoming a company.
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And I did billing until '22.
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So what we, at, at one point in time, we, we had an office manager that started
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doing that, but I would still go and review everything after it was generated.
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I started having some medical issues, um, summer of '24, and Chris sort
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of stepped up and started doing the bill reviews, and it just worked out.
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And seeing that it was getting done quicker and more efficiently
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without me was like, oh well, clearly I was bottleneck, and this
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is probably the better way to do it.
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Amanda Sexton: I have a feeling- Uh … that many people are listening, uh, have
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had that feeling of being a bottleneck.
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I know if my team's listening, they probably could point out some
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spots where I'm that same person.
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So it's helpful to have- 100 … someone just kinda jump in.
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Shann Chaudhry: Yeah, and it's, um, I was just really lucky that that was something
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that he felt comfortable doing, that he was willing to do, and that he agreed to
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continue to do, um, after I got better.
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Um, but it just, it made more sense for him to continue to do that because
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he knew what was going on with all of the attorneys and the cases on a
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weekly basis and could, you know, was also looking at the invoices and, and
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monitoring their productivity versus what was being billed and all of that stuff.
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So he's, he's really good with people, and, uh, he's just a really sociable guy.
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I feel like I'm pretty good with people, but- I'm also more of a
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perfectionist, and I think it's a lot when you… My law firm is my baby.
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I have high standards, and it's a, a little bit easier for me to
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have more, uh, energy behind, like, issues that he can more easily talk
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to because he's removed from it.
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Like, we've got to make sure that somebody's accountable
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for billing their time and, and meeting their billing requirements.
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Like, um, it's slightly different when it can come from him and not from me.
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Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
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It's helpful to have some of that separation from when you want it
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perfect, 'cause I think there's, there's always been the saying too
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that if someone can do it 80% as good as you can, then that's, that's good.
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Like, you can make up for the other 20%.
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Um, but I personally have never been able to adhere to that.
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It's always been 100%, so which is, it's a difficult thing to manage when
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you, especially as you are growing a team and you're adding on more people.
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Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
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I think it's a- a 100%, and I think that one of the things that has always
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been hard for me is that- Because I've been used to catering to the needs of
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business owners and entrepreneurs and dealing with time-sensitive things
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like real estate transactions, like time has always been of the essence.
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So I've always been on the go, go, go.
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Something needs to get done, I turn it around as quickly as possible.
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Whereas like sense of urgency is something that not all people have, and
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that it just doesn't equate in my brain.
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Like, well, if somebody asks to get something done, you just get it done.
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It's not like, well, should we get it done?
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Do we have enough time to get it done?
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Uh, is this a priority compared to the other things that I'm doing?
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And then is this a personal priority for me because I have
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better things to do, right?
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So, um, I always, uh, you know, boundaries is something that you have to learn,
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and I, in, in the beginning, I had terrible boundaries in the business
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and, and with clients, and it was business and client first and, uh, me
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last, and that ends in burnout, so.
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Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
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What have you found to actually work?
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Like what's been the one boundary do you think that's kind of helped with that?
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'Cause I, it's a very slippery slope to burn out, and I think sometimes
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you don't realize until you're there.
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Shann Chaudhry: So I'm gonna say something that's probably highly
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controversial, and people won't like it.
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Ooh, I like a hot
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Amanda Sexton: take.
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Shann Chaudhry: I do not have my email on my phone.
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I do not receive text messages from clients.
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Sole like system of record for me is email.
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My phone is on do not disturb the entire day.
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I do not take phone calls.
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Um, and I don't do callbacks.
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We have an entire system for communication that if somebody calls or emails and
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they want me to call them or they…
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The team is trained to assess who it is, and if a call is needed, a 15 or 30-minute
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call is scheduled on my calendar, and that's when I talk to the person.
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And if-- And we also have the expectation conversation with clients now that if it's
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a time-sensitive issue, you tell the staff that, and then we'll find a priority slot.
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So, you know, I can call somebody back at the end of the day.
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But in the early days, I'd have five or six people that would want me to
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call them back at the end of the day.
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Each one of those conversations are 15 to 20 minutes.
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You know, you blink, you're home at nine o'clock at night.
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So we just… It's just how we do it now.
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So I don't get any emails on my phone, and I don't take any phone
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calls, and it's pretty wild.
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Like
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At least in my experience, 'cause I've, every lawyer I know is like
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checking their email on their phone and sending text messages or having
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phone calls, and just don't do it.
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Amanda Sexton: Well, just before this call, I was looking at, you
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have plenty of five-star reviews, you know, on, on, online, so it sounds
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like the clients aren't suffering.
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And I'd imagine you probably have a lot more time for focused work, too.
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I know that feeling of like you're getting messages and phone calls and texts, and
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it can be really hard to just sit down, and if you… I always think if like you
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had three hours just to work on something, imagine how much you could get done.
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But it sounds like you have that.
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Shann Chaudhry: Well, I think it's like know thyself kind of thing.
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And, um, I, this was probably like 2018, 2019, uh, I heard that one of
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the Twitter guys used to do block calendaring, and I was like, "I'm gonna
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try this." And so my entire day from when I get in the office when we open
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until the end of the day is all blocks.
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And there are, there's been an evolution, so now in between certain, like all
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appointments, there is a buffer.
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So because if we didn't do that, everything would be bleeding
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into each other, and it's just, it d- it would be difficult.
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So, um, my team knows like certain meetings go on in certain slots.
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Tuesdays I don't take appointments.
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I do all of my production work, uh, on Tuesdays for the most part because I also
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know- That's amazing … that Tuesday's the best day for my focus, and I get most
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work done between 7:00 AM and 1:00 PM, and that's like the prime time for my brain.
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And, uh- That's where sort of the magic happens for me.
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So that's-- Uh, so we sort of structured my week and my day around
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what needs to be done and when, and then made sure that there were
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appropriate protection gaps to allow for all of the other things to happen.
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So, you know, it's-- And then I have somebody else manage my email now, which
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is like, that was a big thing for me too.
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But it's, it's, it's one of those things, it's, it's a, it's still
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a, a work in, in, in, in progress.
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It's not perfect, and I probably go back through it way too often.
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But, um, setting up those systems, setting up those processes, having really
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clear communication with the team and the clients as to what expectations
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are, these are all boundaries, things that have been super important.
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And then because I have ADHD, and I always wanna keep, you
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know, I'll keep meetings going.
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I've got timers that I set every morning.
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So at a certain time, I have an alarm that goes off.
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I open my calendar up, and I set alarms for each of my meetings for
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when they start and when they end, and three minutes before the start
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time so that I'm always on time.
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And then my, my schedule is dictated by the, the alarms.
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So I mostly use my telephone for a, a stopwatch, essentially.
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Amanda Sexton: I mean, that's a system, right?
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If it's a system and it works, then that's how you solve a problem.
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So it's, it sounds like you've built one.
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I'd be curious, uh, two things.
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So one, I'm sure there's plenty of people listening that are going, "My
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clients would never go for that."
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Did you ever get client pushback on anything when-- as you were
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changing some of these policies?
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Shann Chaudhry: You know, the clients that matter the most- Mm-hmm … that,
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that, that align with what we do and what we believe and provide the
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same level of service, they saw it.
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Like, they completely understand.
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So long as they knew that if there was something that was a
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time-sensitive, a fire, an emergency that, that, that I would get
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back to them, everybody was fine.
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The people that had problems with it, which were very
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few, aren't clients anymore.
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Like, the idea that you can call at any time and get me on the
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phone or get your attorney on the phone, I think it's unreasonable.
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So when we have that conversation with people now, it's like, "Listen, one
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of the biggest problems and, and, and complaints that people have from…
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about their attorney is I call and I can never get them on the phone, or I can't
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get them to call me back." So we have a communication promise that if you reach
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out, somebody on the team will call you back within four business hours.
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If you need a meeting with me, usually it's, uh, or you need a response
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from me, it's usually a business day, and for some reason if that cannot
19:08
happen, the team will let you know, and we will get something scheduled.
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If it's time-sensitive, you let the team know, and we'll get something coordinated
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where either me or s- one of the other attorneys will do a same-day callback.
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And people are like, "Oh, that's, that's great.
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Like, that, that makes a lot of sense." And when I… If anybody
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objects, I explain exactly what I've explained today, and they're like,
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"Oh, well, I could totally understand."
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So, "But if there is an emergency, you will call me back." And I say, "Yeah,
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but you have to make sure it's a real emergency." Like, it, it… So, and
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it doesn't really happen that often.
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Um, so I probably have one same-day callback every couple of weeks
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Amanda Sexton: That is not bad at all, it sounds like, from
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considering where it was at before.
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And I think it's a good example of building the law firm around you also and
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the way that you work best, which I think a lot of people it's the other way around.
20:02
They're kind of run by their firm versus, which, um, sounds like maybe
20:06
in the beginning that was the case.
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Shann Chaudhry: Oh, 100%.
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Like, it was… But I think that that's sort of the evolution of being
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a business owner is you, you're trying to do whatever you can to service
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your clients and t- to distinguish yourself from your competition.
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But I realized when I was getting phone calls in the middle of dinner with my wife
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and on vacation and things like that were, were really hurting my personal life, that
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I needed to make changes so that I could focus on those things that were really
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important, knowing that- Mm … there aren't that many real estate emergencies
20:45
that happen in the middle of the night.
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Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
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That's a good, good reminder that you can have both things too, so.
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And I'm sure she's very excited about the focus time.
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One of the things that I wanna talk about too, 'cause it sounds, I know from that,
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that's a change that I think a lot of firms don't put into place, that they
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do… are sometimes a little bit too accessible and, or maybe don't set that
21:02
expectation with their clients first.
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But that's one thing that's very different for you guys.
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And another thing that I wanted to make sure that we talked about today,
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'cause I've always really admired it, is your approach to branding and to
21:12
marketing, 'cause that's something that I think that's very, there's a very,
21:16
very traditional law firm branding, and even typically when we work with
21:19
clients for branding that's like, maybe we'll step slightly out of the box.
21:23
But I know you guys dove all in on a very unique kind of branding.
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So I'd be curious to, if you could just share a little bit about
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that and what made you go that direction and how it's worked.
21:32
Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
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I think we've got a re- we've had really great reception of the rebrand.
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And, uh, sort of before, like, when I started the firm, like, it
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was started as, like, my name in cursive, and reading Shawn Chowdhury
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in cursive, it's a bad idea, right?
21:52
Like, people had no idea what my name is and the name of the company.
21:55
And then I went to sort of this, I have a degree in Latin, so, uh, sort of did
22:01
this Roman sort of theme thing, and it was… But there was no idea behind it.
22:05
It was a logo that could go on a business card, and it was, uh
22:11
Just based on something that I liked, and it was more readable.
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But I realized with more and more of sort of this building a brand thing,
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uh, I went to a few workshops a few years ago, and you started seeing
22:26
more and more of these online personas coming on and, and it was really them.
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And I've never wanted to be the person, like, in front of the camera.
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Like, I was never saw myself as somebody that would be, like, in videos or,
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or doing that kind of stuff, but, like, my name is on the door, right?
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So, um, I sort of had to figure out what I wanted my brand to be, and
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there is this general expectation that attorneys are a certain way.
22:58
You wear a dark suit, um, you have little to no personality, um, because
23:08
you are supposed to be this, um, sort of oracle kind of person that
23:13
people bring their problems to and you help solve them, and it's done…
23:18
There's not a whole lot of, of great bedside manner that
23:22
I've seen, like historically.
23:23
I'm sure, um, there are a whole lot of exceptions to that, but that,
23:28
that was, like, the feel that I had and the complaint that I had
23:31
is that, you know, you don't know who your, your attorney really is.
23:37
And I was like, "Well, who am I?"
23:39
I, I, I started wearing this, like, bright blue suit in 2017, and I
23:47
just wore it all the time, and people would say stuff about it.
23:50
And then, so that sort of was the beginning of it and, and I've
23:55
always liked really bright colors and patterns and fashion, but
24:02
sort of, like, in a traditional Ralph Lauren kind of way, right?
24:09
So I'm also a maximalist with regards to art and, and design and
24:15
things like that, and that's like the opposite of being an attorney.
24:20
It's supposed to be, you know, sterile and minimalist and, um, all
24:25
of these things, and I just decided that I was gonna go the other way.
24:28
So, uh, we worked with a national branding agency that's done a
24:32
lot of big companies in, in, in Texas and Southern United States.
24:38
And, um, I'd worked with them in the past on a couple side projects, but my concern
24:44
was, like, this is something that is very out of the box for a lot of people.
24:48
And, um, we went through a whole lot of brainstorming and, like, exercises
24:55
building out what encapsulates me and the firm and what we are
25:01
and how we distinguish ourselves, and it was, it was an experience.
25:08
It took a few months and, um- They, they hit it out of the park.
25:17
Um, so we came back with Uniquely Suited Law, which is sort of our, our tagline.
25:24
And, um, we have sort of the bright colors, the blues and pinks and greens,
25:32
and but we have these traditional patterns like paisley and houndstooth that are
25:36
very familiar, and they're more, uh, formal, but we do them in a more fun way.
25:42
So when you walk into our offices, you see lots of color and less white.
25:46
Uh, you see we have a huge patterned wallpapered wall.
25:52
We have a Scalamandra zebra p- uh, wallpaper in our
25:56
kitchen here at the office.
25:58
We have, um, animal avatars for all of our attorneys, and all
26:04
of it's based on everybody's unique and everybody's different.
26:08
And if we accept the uniqueness in ourselves and display the mo- a more
26:14
authentic version of ourselves, it's easier for us to connect and relate
26:19
to people and, um, like, become closer and more connectable with our clients.
26:27
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
26:28
I love that because it's also that the vision that's out there in the world
26:32
about what everyone sees also matches when they come to your office, and I think,
26:36
you know, we're in this era where we…
26:38
You know, I've been talking with a whole bunch of other people about AI,
26:40
and we're entering the sea of sameness, and everything's going to start looking
26:43
the same, and your branding's already built to stand out, and it's also
26:48
a time where people are looking for someone that they can trust, and they
26:50
want that authenticity, and that's, that's in your entire MO at the firm.
26:55
So, you guys are already primed and set up for that.
26:57
Shann Chaudhry: Yeah, I, I, like, I… You have to be able to distinguish
27:01
yourself, and the colors and the branding, I think, is part of it.
27:04
It's just what else do we bring?
27:06
It's, it's, it's the ability to connect.
27:08
It's the level of service that we provide.
27:11
And I agree, like, in this sort of world of sameness and where
27:16
you can go to ChatGPT and, and get answers to basic legal questions,
27:21
like, what's gonna differentiate a law firm from that in the future?
27:27
And I think it's, it's- Your ability to connect, and it's the level of service.
27:34
Service and how you treat people is going to be everything.
27:37
That's-- It's the humanity in the relationship.
27:41
And we've-- Like, my family was in the hospitality business, and that's
27:46
always sort of been a part of me, and one of our values has been hospitality.
27:50
And a couple years ago, we, uh, had the entire team read Unreasonable
27:57
Hospitality by Will Guidara, and it's an ongoing requirement for
28:02
everyone that joins the team, and we have a lot of conversations around.
28:05
It's like, what could we do to make this client's experience different,
28:10
to make every client's p- experience memorable and something that they
28:15
would want to talk to somebody about?
28:16
Because the baseline is they did the job.
28:19
Like, if you did-- Like, if you did your job correctly and you delivered on
28:25
time, that's the bare minimum, right?
28:28
Like, how do you make a, a business interaction memorable.
28:35
Like, I want somebody to say, "I just had an experience working with my attorney,
28:41
and they were the best, and you should…
28:43
Like, you need a will, you need to talk to Shann.
28:46
Here is his card." And how do you do that?
28:49
And you have to over-deliver.
28:52
You have to be memorable.
28:53
You have to do little things.
28:56
Like, we, one of the things that we do is we have a welcome sign in our
29:01
conference room on the television, and we have the names of our clients.
29:06
Welcome, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith.
29:08
Something small like that t- that takes 30 seconds.
29:12
People, they get excited.
29:15
They say thank you.
29:17
Like, if we remember what they drink and have it in the conference room
29:20
for them, which is one of our little tricks, they come back for a signing,
29:23
and we know that Mr. Smith drinks Dr.
29:25
Pepper.
29:25
There's a Dr. Pepper there.
29:27
You know, these small things, they're like, "This is very cool."
29:30
Like, this is amazing, and that's what I want everybody to lead with.
29:34
Those are just two small examples, but small things like that make a big impact.
29:40
Using people's name, connecting with them, remembering their preferences.
29:45
Like, it shows that you care, and it shows attention to detail.
29:51
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
29:51
That's an above and beyond client experience.
29:53
I don't think I've heard a lot of firms that go that far.
29:55
I think part of it is, okay, like, we've been responsive.
29:58
We've done the work.
29:59
People are really satisfied with the outcome, and that's
30:01
usually the main objective.
30:03
Um, maybe some fast response times, but I think those little details
30:06
don't, definitely don't go unnoticed, especially for anyone that's worked with
30:09
another law firm at any other point.
30:12
Shann Chaudhry: Uh, yeah, I think that, that that's what's
30:15
going to set somebody apart.
30:17
And what does that cost me?
30:19
Well, I already had all of the branding and deliverables, so we…
30:21
Somebody has to literally take 30 seconds on Canva and update a graphic on the tel-
30:28
and to put it on the television, and then, you know, a soda's less than a dollar
30:35
Like what, what kind of cost is that?
30:37
It's, it's, it's just having the infrastructure and building
30:42
that into your standards.
30:44
Like what is the standard?
30:47
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
30:47
It sounds like you guys have put a lot of time into that.
30:49
I'd be curious if the… I mean, obviously everything's an ongoing evolution.
30:52
If it's kind of if you guys revisit that quarterly, annually, or it's like,
30:55
you know, we just sat down at one time and we were like, "Let's put together a
30:58
plan that's going to wow our clients."
31:02
Shann Chaudhry: It's like it's been, you know, what's minimum
31:05
deliver- minimum viable product.
31:07
What can we deliver on, right?
31:10
And what can you consistently deliver on, I think is important.
31:13
Because you can't have inconsistency within the, the ex- the experience
31:20
itself that people have because, um… So we, w- we started with small things,
31:27
and we're continually assessing like what is a way that we can step this up.
31:33
Um, I would say that the biggest challenge is when, is over time
31:37
we've had people come and go.
31:39
So having, as people are, are being trained in the system and, and adopting
31:46
the standards that we have, I think that we've got a really good group of
31:50
people right now, and we're going to be really focusing on how can we, between
31:56
now and the end of the year this year, what can we do so that the client
32:00
experience that we are delivering is even higher than it has been in the past.
32:04
So I think that that's part of the challenge is, is, is that
32:08
making sure that as a company that you can deliver on those things.
32:14
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
32:15
Well, that's a sign of a true visionary if you're constantly looking for ways
32:18
to improve it and tinkering with it, so
32:21
Shann Chaudhry: Well, it's, you ha- you have to take the time.
32:24
Like, that's the part that I'm still struggling with, is like taking the
32:28
time and not answering my email and not answering team members' questions and
32:36
not p- doing consultations, because sort of trained in law school and as a, as
32:43
a young attorney, like you have to be productive, doing productive things all
32:46
the time, and productive, productivity is billing or doing something like that.
32:52
But sitting out and like having a, a brainstorming session or building
32:56
out like what the future looks like, things like that, you really need
33:01
to take time in order to do that, in order to be aware of those things.
33:06
Because it's really easy to get tunnel vision, and you have to take time out, and
33:12
it's, it's, it's still a challenge for me.
33:13
We have, uh, this Friday, in the afternoon we have a sort of a, a
33:18
visioning workshop where we're going over sort of the status quo and where
33:22
do we wanna be and how do we get there.
33:25
Amanda Sexton: That's wow.
33:25
You, you've really committed to scaling for someone who thought
33:28
they might just have one or two attorneys for at their firm.
33:32
Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
33:33
I, uh, there wasn't a lot of intention.
33:34
There wasn't a lot of, of what does it look like and how does
33:40
this become a viable business?
33:41
It was wanting to be an, a trusted advisor and be an expert, and-
33:52
grow a business, but like I was vastly underprepared for what that turned into.
33:59
But overall, it's, it's been a, a great journey, and I have learned
34:05
more growing this business over the last eight years than I did, you
34:12
know, all of, all of my schooling.
34:16
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
34:17
There's nothing like learning by tri- or trial by fire, so it kind of forces
34:21
you to do it, but just dive right in.
34:24
Shann Chaudhry: But it, it's taking the time and, and, and learning new things
34:29
and, and like right now I'm trying to double down on some, some AI integration
34:35
stuff just to make everybody's jobs easier, and, um, but it takes time to be
34:41
able to learn the systems and effectively use it and tune it and update it.
34:48
You know?
34:49
So it's… Yeah, it's, it's like where do you find the time?
34:54
And you just have to make it.
34:55
You have to decide that this is a priority and I'm gonna take the time.
34:58
There's always gonna be more consultations and emails and client
35:03
needs, and by taking the time now, I always tell myself, "This is what's
35:08
going to provide a better experience for all of our clients three, six, nine
35:14
months from now, two years from now."
35:16
So if I can take the time now, we'll be more efficient as a business,
35:22
we'll be providing better service.
35:24
Everything will get better if you slow down to speed up.
35:28
And it's really bizarre when you try to do it because you feel like, "I have to keep
35:33
going," but it's really, it's really true.
35:36
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
35:36
Even logically when it makes sense, I think it's almost counterintuitive,
35:39
especially as people are leaving or you feel like you have to jump back into
35:42
things to make sure nothing falls apart.
35:44
But having, like you said before, having the right team.
35:46
And I think it's a very easy thing to not spend time on those things,
35:50
and it's also one of those things where you don't realize that until
35:53
it's three, four months down the road and maybe things are stalling
35:56
and you're like, "I don't understand why we haven't made any progress."
35:58
And a lot of times it's because you haven't taken that time to devote to it.
36:03
Shann Chaudhry: Yeah.
36:04
It's, it's, it… That it's having, knowing the things that are important,
36:07
what's gonna move the needle, and then making sure that you are giving time
36:12
and attention to it, and monitoring it so that you can get the benefit of
36:21
growth and y- your efforts over time.
36:25
Because there's just so f- like, there's a lot of things that business owners
36:29
sort of, like, set it and forget it.
36:30
And you're like, "Okay, I wanna do this thing.
36:32
You're gonna be in charge of implementing this process.
36:35
Go." And then you blink, and it's six months, and, like, somewhere along
36:39
the way, that process or procedure, that product hit a, hit a wall, or
36:45
is imperfectly executed on, or, you know, your ads aren't generating the
36:50
business you need them to or whatever.
36:53
But it's because you didn't take the time to sort of make sure that
36:58
it's moving along the way, so.
37:01
Amanda Sexton: Yeah, which is, which is pretty easy to do.
37:03
Well, I, I think you have provided so many insights today.
37:05
I could keep chatting with you for forever about this, and I'm so curious
37:08
about the AI train and everything else.
37:10
Um, but I think we've given everyone who's listening a lot of great info today.
37:14
I'd be curious if there's any one last thing- Yeah … or tip or takeaway that
37:17
you'd love to share with people about your journey or anything that's worked
37:21
really well for you before we wrap up.
37:25
Shann Chaudhry: It's learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable.
37:31
And, like, doing the thing that you feel like you don't wanna
37:34
do or you don't know how to do.
37:37
And, and that's something that I had to learn to, to be okay with.
37:42
And, um, whether that's learning how to sell or learning how to speak to a
37:47
group or learning how to use a tool or, you know, learning to continue learning
37:55
overall the, you know, from other people that are experts within your field.
38:00
Um, there's no, there's no finish line.
38:03
There's no time where you're like, "Well, I've done all the things. I'm
38:05
just gonna kick it back and do nothing." Um, you … If you want to, to really
38:12
change things and grow as a person and grow your business, you have to
38:20
continually be willing to put yourself in situations that are uncomfortable
38:27
Amanda Sexton: That's an excellent point.
38:28
I once had a coach that had said, "Every time you wanna reach a new
38:31
plateau of growth, you have to ask yourself who you have to become or
38:34
what you need to grow into or learn in order to get to that level." So,
38:38
and it's often a little uncomfortable.
38:41
Shann Chaudhry: 100%.
38:44
And I think that it's…
38:47
I had a great, um, exercise I did with some, uh, attorneys from EO a couple
38:54
years ago, and I can-- I'm really good at ha- coming with concepts and ideas and
39:00
visualizing things, but like a goal, like we talked about at the beginning, like I
39:04
had no idea what it was gonna look like.
39:06
So I was like, "Well, where do I wanna be?" And I've always
39:09
had this personal limitation.
39:11
It was hard for me to see past the current challenges or like what's
39:14
the immediate next year look like.
39:16
So what we did is, is you sort of did this visualization, uh, exercise where
39:21
five years from now, where are you?
39:23
What does that look like?
39:24
And getting really clear on those details from like, what does your
39:27
daily schedule look like to what's the house you live in, to like who
39:31
are the people that work for you, and get really clear about those things.
39:35
And then you-- for that to be true, what happened, you know…
39:41
That's five years from now.
39:42
What happened four years from now f- from, to go from, you know,
39:46
to get there from some place?
39:48
And then you track back to get to where you are, and then you've sort of created
39:53
this path forward, but it's coming from the place that you wanna be as opposed to
39:59
trying to, to get, go the other direction, which was really a novel concept for me,
40:04
and it was something that allowed me to get through some blind, um, spots and, and
40:12
have some vision for beyond the immediate.
40:16
Amanda Sexton: Yeah.
40:17
That definitely makes it easier to make choices and decisions too about next
40:20
steps, about who to hire- Yeah … or what to do next if you know where
40:23
you're headed, especially long term.
40:25
And knowing that so much can change in a year, that even if you made a plan,
40:29
it might go slightly off the rails.
40:30
How do you get it back on track for that long-term plan?
40:33
Um, well, thank you for joining us, Shann.
40:36
This was fantastic.
40:37
I loved catching up.
40:38
Um, for everyone who's listening, I will put, make sure that Shann's
40:42
website is in the show notes for you.
40:44
So if you wanna check out his fantastic branding, you can go ahead and do that.
40:47
And if you'd like to hear what other managing partners are saying, you
40:49
can subscribe to our newsletter at the link in the show notes also.
40:53
Thanks so much, and we'll see you soon at the next one.
40:57
Thanks for joining us at the Managing Partners table.
41:00
For more conversations like this, follow the show, and if you'd like a key takeaway
41:04
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41:08
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41:10
I'm Amanda Sexton.
41:11
See you at the table