Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Kyle Schwarber Offered 4-year deal and Ketel Marte's no-trade clause

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Kyle Schwarber Offered 4-year deal and Ketel Marte's no-trade clause · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Buco Territory, presented you
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: by the Foul Territory Network.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I am your host, Noah.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Hiles, and joining me as always are my lovely co
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: hosts Josh Harrison, akaj Hay and Platinum Key aka Mark Fellas.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: The Winter Meetings have arrived.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're recording this on Monday evening at around eight pm
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Eastern Standard time. Not a ton of action so far
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: by this time. Last year, in the Winter Meetings, the
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: most expensive deal in the history of sports was signed.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: So I think they're a little behind the eight ball.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I don't see a SODO signing happening in the next
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: couple of days, but so far, I would argue, guys,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the biggest news from the Winter Meetings pertains to a
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: contract offer made by none other than the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Kevin Rosenthal reported, I believe that was Sunday night or
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: was it Monday morning? The two Sunday night is that
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Pirates offered Kyle Schwarber a four year deal that he
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: expected to be at least one hundred million dollars. So
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: that's a twenty five million dollars annual value, and we
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: could start the show there. I'll ask you both your
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: reaction to this news. Josh, we'll start with you.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Christmas is around the corner. Still got our fingers crossed.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: You never know what can happen. But at the same time,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: talk is cheap. We've had this conversation. So is the
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: same thing with the nailor that we talked about. I mean,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: granted they said they didn't offer Naylor, but they just talked, Yes,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: you might have offered Schwarber, but what is it in
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: comparison to what Schwarber's really been offered? So is it
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: another one of those things where they're just saying, oh,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: we offered them, or is it something that they're really trying,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: you know, to say, like, no, we're going form That's
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: my thoughts.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Mark.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like you're raising your paddle and like
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: a bidding war and saying, yeah, we'll bid, we'll bid,
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: We're totally in on it, and that's well and good.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: But it's all about the quality of the offer, not
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: just the intent behind it. I mean, if it's a
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: four year deal, you're gonna have to pay probably more
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: in aav for Kyle Schwarber. So you're looking probably around
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: at least like one hundred and twenty million for four
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: years for like a thirty AAV And even then, I
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: don't know if that's gonna really move the needle for him.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: I think if he's gonna sign with a team like
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: the Pirates that aren't exactly competing necessarily quite yet, then
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: it's gonna take more. It's gonna take more for the
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Pirates to sign pretty much anyone, I think. And so
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: you gotta bump up the AAV, you gotta bump up
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: the years if you really really want to land a
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: guy like Schwarber, and if you don't, this is a
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: great way of saying, hey, we tried. We gave him
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: a four year, one hundred million dollar deal. Look we're trying.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: We just can't force people the same. But you can't.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: You can make a compelling enough offer. And it doesn't
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: sound like that's what the Pirates have offered s Forber
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: as of yet.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: But not not to cut you off, Mark, but if
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: they really have offered this, that means they're willing to
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: come out of pocket.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: It's something that's much so.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So if they have, if you don't land a
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Swarber I mean, which I mean We've already had this discussion.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: He'd be a great fit for you know, not only
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: pirates a lot of teams, but if you want to
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: go for them, go for them. But if you do
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: miss out on it, there could be a way to say, well,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: we missed out on them, but that same money that
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: you were willing to commit to him, you know, commit
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: other places that you can. Oh, just because we missed
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: out on Schwarber, All right, well we're gonna take the
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: hundred down to now we're going to spend sixty. Like no,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: you had a plan to spend one hundred million on
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: one guy. If it falls through and you don't get them,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I'm saying you still have your showing the potential to say, Okay,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: we're willing to spend this money because this money was
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: on the table.
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: M H.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Josh.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I'm still glad you put in that out because the
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: journalist in me always asked the question, who cares about
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: the offer? And now I'm not sitting here coming after
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the credibility of Ken Rosenthal.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: He is one of the best to have ever done it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: And if I got that scoop, I would have led
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: my notebook with it as well. But at the end
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: of the day when we're getting down to brass tacks.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: He even said it, Mark on your Twitter, you posted
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: the good part and then scribbled out the following graph
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: where he said he doesn't expect Shorebert to sign with
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the pirates. That's that's fake news media at its finest
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: right there from you, platin Key, And in all seriousness,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: who cares about an offer? It's it's not a contest
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: to see who can make an offer. It's a contest
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: to see who can make the best offer. And I
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: don't again, I don't think it's a coincidence that this
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: offer was quickly made public, right that this this was known,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: and either on Shorber side or the Pirates side, if
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: you're shorter and this is the first offer you get,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: you say, all right, well here's what the pirates are
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: willing to pay. Right so, Mets Phillies, anyone else can
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: you do better than four years one hundred something millions?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you can.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: In Cincinnati, Red's like, here's what else.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: And then on the Pirates side, like what Josh kind
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: of pointed out, you could say, look, we're willing to
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: spend one hundred million dollars on a very good baseball player.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: The player that they end up getting or have the
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: best chance to get is probably not going to be
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: as valuable.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: As Kyle Schorber.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean it can't be a one hundred
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: million dollar deal. It could be six years for one
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: hundred million rather than four. It could be something maybe
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: even a little longer, or you could go shorter with
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: the same aav if you want to get someone for
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: like two years, fifty million, whatever deal works out. And
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's kind of what the Pirates are hoping
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to gain from this is by basically just saying like,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: we're not just offering one year, five million dollar deals
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: this offseason. We're willing to pay legitimate money. And while yeah,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: we're not gonna be able to outspend the Mets or
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: the Phillies, guess what. Look around the league, only a
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: couple teams are actually really only one team is able
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: to outspend both of those, and they just so happen
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: to have the only DH in baseball who's better than
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Kyle Schwerber, so they don't need one.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Although it would be very on brand for them to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: just like sign.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, like it was just like yeah, you know
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: we'll teach show hey third or something like that, you know,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: but that that's my take on this is I think
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: both sides have both sides have a lot to gain
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: here by this information being public h publicized. And I
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: don't think it's like a cheap ploy on the Pirates
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: end here. I think this is more of a business savvy.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Type of thing.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: And the same thing goes for again Shoorver's camp. They're
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: they're trying to set the market, and the fact that
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the Pirates are involved in the market setting price for
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the best free agent on the market is noteworthy.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Is it worth getting cited for?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: No, Because again, it's like at an auction, just because
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: you raise your arm a whole bunch of times does
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: not mean you're leaving with anything. It just means, you know,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: your arm might be sore when you get in the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: car and drive home. So they need to make a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: deal that everyone else will just say, okay, well they
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: did that, all right, fine, cool, And like Mark said,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: it's going to take a little bit of an overpay
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: to get there.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: No, I'll ask you one kind of question on the
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: schwarbur front here. Do you think the Pirates focus on
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Schoarber would distract them from anything. Are they missing out
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: on other opportunities or no?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Because the way this works at winter meetings, I mean you're,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: you're it's like around the clock like they they've probably
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: but just as much attention, if not more attention toward
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Polanco O'Hearn.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And that's not something I'm hearing personally.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Uh, you just know experience.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Like I I spent three days learning about how they
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: were shopping Jared Jones and Mitch Keller and then in
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the middle of that process they traded Luis Ortiz. So
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: that tells me that, yeah, they're talking with a whole
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: bunch of teams about a whole bunch of players. And
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and the reason you monitor all of that all at
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: once to give like a peel back the curtain look
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: at Like how you cover this stuff is you're looking
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: for trends like that year's trend was obvious. They were
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: looking to move a starting pitcher for a controllable bat.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Here.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: It looks like they're trying to put themselves in position
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: to make the biggest free agent signing in franchise history.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Now will it happened, I don't know, but it seems
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: like that is their motive at the very least right now,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: other big move they can make doesn't involve free agency,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: but rather trade ca Tell Marte probably the best position
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: player available on the trade block this offseason. I wouldn't
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: say he's the best player, because I think Trek Scougle
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: is involved in the trade market and he's probably a better.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Overall player than Cold tell Marte.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: But as far as position players are concerned, I think
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: it's safe to say this is the best second basement
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: in baseball. He's probably had that title for a couple
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: of years now, someone that I think a lot of
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: teams would like to have for a lot of reasons.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Just to break it down real quick, he has five
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: more years of club control after this one. There's I
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: believe an option year, a player option year, in twenty
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: thirty one, and then he can become an unrestricted free
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: agent in twenty thirty two. If I'm not mistaken. If
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, my boy Ethan will shoot me a text
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: about it tomorrow morning. The AAV of his current deal
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: is nineteen point four million, which is pretty affordable for
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: a player of his caliber. He's scheduled He's slated to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: make sixteen million this upcoming season, which is half a
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: million less than Mitch Keller if you're keeping track at home,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and I don't believe that deal goes up to higher
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: than like twenty two million at its peak.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So pretty affordable deal. But the big caveat.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: In addition to coming up with a trade package to
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: get him to Pittsburgh is that he has a no
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: trade clause, which is where mister Harrison comes into this conversation. Josh,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you never had any no trade clauses on your contracts,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: but you have played with plenty of people that have.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's not as simple as oh, this team's
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: on my list, they're never gonna trade me.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: There, take it.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Take a give us a peek at the process of
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: how a team on a no trade clause can get
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a player to waive that well.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Typically a no trade clause.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: You know, guys that don't have full troit no trade
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: clauses may have a ten team no trade clause where
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: you know there's gonna be ten teams that you pretty
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: much say, I don't care if y'all agree to a trade.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: The answer is no unless it's okay by the player,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And you know players may have a no trade clause
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: for whatever the reason may be. It could be, oh,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: it's far away from home taxes, or oh, I don't
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: like this division, I don't like the stadium. All guys
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: have different reasons for why they, you know, put no
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: trade clauses on certain teams or certain cities, whatever the
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: case may be. But it's not uncommon for guys to
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: you know, waive a no trade clause for you know,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: the right situation or the right fit.
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: Then uh.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you know, you might be he's got a no
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: trade clause to the Pirates, but you know, Pirates signed
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Schwarber or you know, make a splash signing, and you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: suddenly somebody has a no trade clause to Pittsburgh. Hey,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Pitchburgh might be okay. You know, if guys are seeing
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: that team's or you know, looking, you know, to to
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: try to win or do something otherwise, and what they
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: thought as to why they put him on a no
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: trade clause, you could possibly see guys, you know, eventually
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: end up waving a no trade clause.
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: Don't quote me on this, but I'm.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Pretty sure before no longer or I don't get traded
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: to the Cardinals, I think he had a full like
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: no trade clause and I was able to wave it,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: you know, to to say.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Okay, Saint Louis. It seems like a play.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: You know, he probably made decisions saying Okay, I don't
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: mind going to Saint Louis even though they were on
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: a no trade list. You know, whatever the case may be.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: You know, there's some things that might entice people to
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: you know, wave that no trade clause. And I'm sure
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: playing with the best picture in the league might entice them,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: especially if they were to make some you know, some
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: moves if it was to come to fruition.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying they pull full Kawhi Leonard here
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and just find illegal money to give him, but.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: He can great.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: But you can sweeten the pot through like different incentives
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: or perks too, right, Like it could be something like
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a home suite at every game for his family, like
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: those things are within it can get.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, Mark might know a little bit more about
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: legality stuff than me, but I think it can get
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: pretty much down to oh Man teams trading based off
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: of oh They're going to take on the salaryer. So
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: that well, if they want me to wave the no
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: trade clause, like you said, I want a suite at
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: home work. You know, if they want me to wave this,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: if they want me to wave this, that team option
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: needs to become a player option, or it needs to
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: be a guarantee.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Like those are things where's like, okay, how bad do
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: you really want this player?
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Where you know, a team may say, okay, we're willing
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: to give him that extra year, you know, for our team,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: or some teams may be like, you know what, you.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Guys can try to find another suitor.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: So there are cases that you know, some guys will
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: and it could very well be enticon for some guys
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: to say I never thought I would play in this place,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: but you know, they they came with a package. You
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: know that I pretty much couldn't deny, you know. And
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: sometimes you'll see some guys wave no trade clauses based
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: off of, you know, teams willing to meet. I don't
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: want to say that of a player, but at the
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: same time, when you have a no trade clause, I
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: mean that's the demands of the player. He has the
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: ball in his court and you know, everything can look good,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, if he says no,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: nothing's gonna.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Happen, all right, Mark Let's say in this hypothetical world,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: can tell Marte is willing to wave his no trade
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: clause your general manager, Platinum Key, what is the most
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: enticing package you can offer to the Arizona Diamondbacks to
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: get the best second basement in baseball?
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the Diamondbacks are they're looking for starting pitching,
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: and the Pirates have a lot of depth that's starting pitching.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Mitch Keller has to be the focal point of a
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: Cantel march Ray trade. It makes a ton of financial
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: sense for the Pirates where you're basically washing out Mitch
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: Keller's contract and replacing it with a contract for Kittel.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Marte to convince the Diamondbacks to give up a fifteen
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: F war player over the last three years for Mitch
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Keller gonna have to give way more than just Mitch Keller.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: And they're looking for MLB ready starting pitching, so you know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: maybe a Brox and Ashcraft as well, and then you're
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: probably looking at Perry prospects as well. It would have
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: to be a really massive deal. This guy is not
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: just the second the best second baseman in the league,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: but he's one of the best position players in the league.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: If you look at the available free agents right now,
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: he in the last three years he has fifteen point
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: three F four, Kyle Tucker thirteen point six, Alex Bregman
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: twelve point one four. He has more f war than
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Kyle schwarb Er, Boba Schett, Cody Bellinger, Pete Alonso, all
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: these guys he's performed better than in the last three years.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: So it's going to take way more than just Mitch Keller.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: You might even have to see like a Bubba Chandler
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: to move the needle. And I don't know if I'd
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: be willing to do that. Yeah, I would be very,
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: very very hesitant to do that, but that's probably going
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: to be what the asking price is like for one
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: of the best position players in the league. So it
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: would it would really hurt whatever the asking price is,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: but it would make this team so, so, so much better.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: The reason you can't give up Keller, Chandler and Keller
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: is because you need a number two in your rotation
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and one of those guys is going to have to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: be it. And I would think that you would want
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: to keep Chandler because he's cheaper, younger, has a higher
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: ceiling of potential, and yeah, still hasn't played out his.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Full rookie year.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: To me, when I look at it, I mean, yes,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Keller is obviously the starting point. I'd throw in Nick
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and Zalez if they wanted them, although like I think
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: they're just gonna put Laller at second. They have Perdomo
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: at short, and I mean I guess they could move
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Waller to third and have Nick second. Yeah, they have,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: they have options there, but yeah, it would be Keller
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and then you're you're sweetening the pot with prospects. There
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: are two prospers that I wouldn't trade. It'd be Bubba
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Chandler and it'd be Connor Griffin. Everyone else is I'm
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: willing to listen. Now, I'm not gonna like when you
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: look at their list, I'm not trading Garcia because they
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: just got him on.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be kind of dumb.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: But I mean in theory, I guess not, because like
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you're just it just becomes like a three way trade.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: Well, let's say.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes teams will take that chip to use it
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: to spin it another way. I mean, yeah, I understand
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: that the pirates are doing that, but it's a move
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: that's been seen before.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's been done now.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think that would be smart for the Pirates
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: because the Pirates the prospects that I would be willing
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to give up with if I'm Pittsburgh would be guys
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: who are not bigly ready. I'm looking at Edward Florentino,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at Seth Hernandez.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I think pairing one of those two guys.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I think they're both nineteen years old, yes, and they're
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: both already top one hundred prospects. I mean, Seth Hernandez
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: by the end of this year, by the time you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: we're in December of twenty twenty six, could easily be
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: a top twenty prospect in baseball.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I mean he has insane the high upside.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's he's nineteen years old and they don't
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: need pitching right now, and and yeah, well it might
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: be something where you look back on it three years
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: from now you're like, man, really wish the Pirates of
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that guy. Tell Mark k does not look like a
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: gallon of milk that's going to be expired anytime soon.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: You know, like even if even if the glove goes away,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: he's your DH then or you can move him to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: first base like he has been one of the most
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: established baseball players in the world for the last half decade.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Switch hits, like he's just so valuable. He's played in
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a World Series, like every All Stars Silber, Like everything
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that you could want and more is what this guy provides.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And if it means you have to give up your
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: number six overall pick last year, like if if before
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: they made that pick, if I could have told the
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Pirates Mitch Keller and this pick for katel Marte before
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you fall in love with whoever you select, that's a
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: no brainer.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: That as a no brainer.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And so that's where I would rather trade Florentino, probably
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: just because he's I don't even think he's played. I mean,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I guess neither of them have really played even in
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: High A yet. But yeah, I would pair I would
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: pair one of those two with Keller, both top one
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: hundred guys, both only nineteen years old, and then see
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: what else you need to throw at. If it's another
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Nick Gonzalez, if it's a Carmen Majenski, someone who adds
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit to their major league roster, if they
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: want another prospect, I would go to the next tier. Yeah,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Like if they want someone if they want, like a
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: bench player or a bullpen arm to go along with it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: At Kyle Nicholas, sure I would. I would do that,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: but I'm not giving up two elite prospects. I'm not
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: giving up two members of my starting rotation. That's probably
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: where I would go.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: I would.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I would give up one elite prospect, Mitch Keller, and
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: then either a bench guy or someone in the I
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: would say nine to fifteen prospect range. And I don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: know if that would be enough. I mean, it seems
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: like it would be because they want to get rid
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: of this guy. There's there's no reason they don't.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they right there there. It's all the you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: the front office speak like, oh, I don't know how
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: this trade rumor got out there again. I I haven't
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: even talked to Kittell about it because I don't want
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: it's not it's nothing like you know, uh, I think
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: that was all just like from today at the winter meeting. Yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: the Diamondbacks, GM and S. It's but it's like.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: They got to play the game. They can.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Like you made you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Made the Sandwich brother like you guys were clearly the
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: ones who leaked it like other teams don't just find
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: out like this this new surface before the World Series
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: even ended.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so clearly the Diamondbacks talk to other teams.
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: Talk Yeah yeah, yeah, Either they leaked it that they're
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: talking to other teams about the idea of trading him,
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: or other teams are like you will never believe did
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: right right?
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: They putting a pressure on such money where your mouth
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: is if you really even talking at we're gonna leak
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: it to see if they because to go to your
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: sorry to cut you off, but to go to your
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: point when you said, not want to give up to
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: high of a prospect but still make it enticing, because
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, the argument for Pirates fans is, I mean, granted,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: no kind of Griffin, as you said, no Chandler, but
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: as you said, a draft pick from last year can
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: be enticing because yes, he might be some years removed
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: from possibly making his debut, but the objective right now
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: is to try to win and make your team better.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: And those two guys you mentioned before cond of Griffin channel,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: they are in the plans to help this team. So
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: I agree with you on that, but don't And that's
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: why I said I agree with you, because I don't
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: want them to get so caught up in holding on
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: to prospects, where you said, if you would have told
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: them last year, Mitch Keller in your first round draft pick,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: you know, that's that's something that you would really want away,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: if that's something that the Diamondbacks would be willing to pull.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: So I was I was agreeing with you're saying that, Yeah,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: don't don't fall in love with these young prospects.
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: If you want to make a team better than now.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: The whole process, the whole thought process, should be winning
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: with Paul Skins. And when you look at Seth, Seth Hernandez,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, is the Paul Skins replacement. Like, whenever
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Paul inevitably leaves, he should be major league ready and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: he has the ceiling. I don't know if he has
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Paul Skins his ceiling. I don't know any picture will
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: see for the rest of my life will have that ceiling.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: But I think he has a ceiling similar to Bubba Chandler,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: if not higher.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And so that's your Paul Skins.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, we're losing an ace, but we're we
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: have another ace ready to go.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: There's that thought.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: But if your goal is to win with Paul Skins
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: than any asset that you have that will not be
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: here throughout Paul Skins's time should be viewed as expendable. Yes,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: and so that that's that's how you have to view it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: To wrap up the Martes stuff real quick, Mark and
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I were talking before the show started, when you will
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: you debate Schwarber or Marte, who would you like more?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's really even that tough of a question.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: When you look at Kyle Schwarber, you're paying a guy who,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: granted is the second best player at his position, who
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: does the primary thing that you need this team to.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Acquire, put ball in, balls in the seats.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: His game will absolutely translate to panc Park with that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: short portion, right. They've been looking for that type of
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: hitter forever since the thing's been built. But at the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: end of the day, you're getting the best second basement
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: in baseball for more years of control at a far
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: lower price. I think it's a no brainer that could
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: tell Marte is the right guy to go because you
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: can get if you acquire. To tell Marte, you still
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: haven't added any money to your PA.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: That's what I was I say that the money that
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: you were gonna offer Schober. If you acquire Marte, you
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: still have, you know, basically saying that Keller that might offset.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: You still have the plans to be able to add.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: And as you said, Marte can offer a little bit
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: more flexibility because obviously you can play second base, might
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: be able to bounce around. He hits from both sides,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: but he said, you can't miss with Schwarber's back. He's
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: gonna be an upgrade for whatever lineup because any ballpark
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: he'll be able to make small But I agree with you,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Marte does make more sense, especially knowing that if you
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: acquire Marte, you have a lot more flexibility to still
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: be able to spend. You don't have to get as
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: creative with trying to make scenarios to trade or this
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: or that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Not that you wouldn't but and that's the reality of
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: their situation. They're not a Kyle Schwarber away. They're a
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber away from being maybe a five hundred team
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: if some things work out. But if you trade Kyle Schwarber,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: then I mean, theoretically, yeah, you can clear up more
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: money if you trade Mitch for someone pre orb, but
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think you're getting a pre rd player who's
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: better than to Tell Marte. And if you're able to
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: get to Tell Marte and then sign Ryan O'Hearn to
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: be your DH, I think that's a better alternative than
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber and a pre orb third baseman or something
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: like that. I think your team is better off. Mark,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: hit that subscribe button, tell everyone to do it. Show
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: us the graphic we got to remind everyone. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: We're on a mission of one thousand. I think we
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: just eclipsed six hundred already. I mean we were dragging
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: about five hundred last week on that hopefully.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we're moving up pretty quick.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: We appreciate everyone subscribing and following along, and we know
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: you're only doing it for the prize, which is why
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: you're all sitting here waiting for it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: All right, So this week's prize is a Paul Skens card. Mark,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: have it with you.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: I got it right here.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Oh it's shining, shine everything throwing a splinker.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: He's gonna throw it fast. Mark, who's the winner this week?
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Josh? Give me a number one through fifteen.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: Of course is five five?
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: All right, Congrats to Amanda Burns.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: Let's go. Congrats Lucky number five.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Look out for your mailbox. I'll get the shipped out, Amanda.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: I'll be uh check your DMS. I'll reach out for
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: some contact info. And I continue to hit that subscribe
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: button guys, because this is not the best prize coming uh.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: We're doing another giveaway next week and then the week
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: following that, So two more chances for everyone. Some pretty
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: cool stuff coming up.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we will reveal this week's prize, which is
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: going to be another card. So if you're card collector
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and you missed out on a Paul Skins card, have
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: no fear because a signed Josh Harrison card is the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: next prize for this week. So thank goodness we have
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: access to him. You know that makes it a little
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: easier to find a Pride.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: I can know a signed card.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know I got it that.
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: You got the high school one.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I do. I'll tell you a quick story.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: My I had an aunt who used to go to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the same gym as Chiefs running back Larry Johnson, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I asked her to see if he could get me
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a signed card, and he said, you would only do
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: it if we would trade. So I signed cards and
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I got like four all Pro cards from him.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So that was Yeah, that was cool.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: But I can I can, I can hook Josh. If
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: you want to do a trade, we could do qua
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: if you want.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: The jersey would be amazing.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, we could do that all right.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: So if you want to win an autograph j Hey card,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: all you have to do is be subscribed to this podcast,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: send a show us a screenshot on social media on Twitter,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you can also email it to us.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Just email it to me the email.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: My email is in my bio on Twitter, and it's
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: also if you just go in to Post Gazette, it's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: at the bottom of all of my articles. So you
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: can email me a screenshot that you're subscribed if you're
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: not on Twitter, or just comment a screenshot of it
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: on Buco.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Territory and you can be entered to win.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And if you didn't win, and if you're already been entered,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: you're still eligible to win all of these prizes leading up.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: So big thanks to everyone who has subscribed.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: It's really cool to see this show's following growing and fellas,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: it's going to be real fun to see what happens
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: the next couple of days.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Here at the Winter Meetings. Any final thoughts before we
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: wrap up another episode.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: That's on Spot.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: But I mean, with the Winter Meetings starting up, I
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: see the Pirates making some sort of a move here
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: over the next two days. I just fill it trying
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: to speak it into existence too. And for as much
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: as their name has been in the you know media
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: about oh we're talking to this guy, we want to
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: offer this guy, you know, I think the time might
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: be now to go ahead and make that move, to
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: to say, Okay, we showed y'all, let's do it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: So I think something can happen here.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I know they made the trade last week, but that
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: might just be a little precursor to what they're looking to,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: you know, say, face to face meeting sometimes, Yeah, face
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: to face meeting sometimes get things going. And I'm I'm
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: thinking something's gonna happen here soon.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: An final thoughts, Yeah, just Ben, we need to do
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: something here, so let's get going. I'm excited. It's very
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: encouraging seeing that the Pirates are one of the biggest
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: you know, movers at the deadline or at the Winter
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Meetings right now, the people that are talking the most
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: to other teams. So something's got to happen to it
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: or come to happen from it. So here we go.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Tuesday evening was when the Horrowitz trade went down. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: remember we were eating dinner.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: We just said on for dinner, and I just got
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: a text from a source about another player potentially being traded,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh cool, I'm gonna have the
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: big scoop. And then literally thirty seconds after that, they
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: made the trade.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Uh no, not at all. You never do.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: But okay, so we'll see, We'll keep tuning in and
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: keep following back. We'll have another episode here covering the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: end of winter meetings on Bucko Territory, presented by the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Foul Territory Network