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Revolutionizing browsing: inside Strawberry's AI-Powered workflow with Charles Maddock · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

• 0:00
  Welcome back to AI for Founders. I'm Ryan Estes, the podcast
• 0:03
  where we explore the tools, trends and people shaping the
• 0:06
  future of business through artificial intelligence.
• 0:09
  Today we're heading to Sweden, where a small but mighty team is
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  rethinking one of the most core fundamental tools we use every
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  day, the web browser. My guest is Charles, the founder
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  of Strawberry Browser, an AI powered browser that doesn't
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  just help you surf the web, it works the web for you.
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  Think research assistants, task automation and productivity
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  workflows, all natively integrated with AI agents or
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  companions inside your browsing experience.
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  Launched in 2024, Strawberry quickly picked up momentum and
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  was voted the number one product of the day and week on Product
• 0:44
  Hunt in April 2025. Just a couple of weeks ago.
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  With the four person team, the usage based SAS model, and
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  hundreds of early adopters, Charles is solving for one of
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  the most pressing needs in the digital world, ease and speed.
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  He started coding at age 11 and now he's building tools to
• 1:01
  rethink how we interact with the Internet itself.
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  Let's get into it. But first, some business.
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  This episode is brought to you by kitcaster.com, the podcast
• 1:11
  agency that helps founders talk more and sell more through
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  themselvesthatskitcaster.com by MO Burst because your story
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  belongs on a mic. Hey, Charles.
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  Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me, Ryan.
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  You betcha. I want to kick this off with the
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  question I'm curious about particularly with builders and
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  AI. It seems like the interface now
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  for engaging AI is one of two things.
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  Either it's a chat function or it's a glowing button that fixes
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  everything. Which is your favorite?
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  Glowing button that fixes everything.
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  Oh my goodness, I I, I really cannot imagine.
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  I, I, I feel like such a old person now.
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  Well, what would that be referring to more specifically?
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  You know, it's like, let's say Air table or HubSpot, all the
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  big enterprise software companies in the upper right
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  hand corner is it it has a little glowing button that says
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  like, try our AI assistant and you click on it and no
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  disrespect, but it's a little bit half baked and they're
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  trying to figure out like what to do, You know what I mean?
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  Like how do? We integrate.
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  The tool into this big software. OK, yes, I, I, I completely hear
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  you now. And The funny thing is usually
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  you press that button and then the chat opens up, right?
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  So it's really just the chat underneath there.
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  Anyways, yeah, I think then the button is slightly better.
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  I I would have to say. Yeah, and it, you know, it
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  popularized by the vibe coding apps.
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  You know, that's my favorite thing in Lovable where it gives
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  you this big error and you're like, oh, OK.
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  And then it says has a button that says try and fix it.
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  I'm like, don't mind if I do hit the button and then it works
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  through, you know, but it gives you kind of the rundown of what
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  it's doing and like it's it shows the work, you know, So I
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  just it, it's so satisfying to hit that and it works that I
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  just see that being integrated into so many things because, you
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  know, if it's preemptively finds the problems you have and it
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  knows it's wrong, the try and fix it button feels like a great
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  solution because you're not sitting there being like, this
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  is wrong. No, it's, it's totally the 11
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  next step in in the interfaces we have towards LLMS.
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  I would say one thing we really ambition for Strawberry browser.
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  What I'm currently working on is that your assistant will kind of
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  give you tips whilst you're working.
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  So say that you're inside of your Gmail and you know, you're
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  moving a receipt from your Gmail to QuickBooks and you do that
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  twice. Well, then hey, after, after you
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  doing that twice, it should just be able to say, oh, hey, Ryan,
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  can I just do this for you? I know how you I'll do this now.
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  And you just press yes, you got the big glowing button right?
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  And then it will start automating that directly inside
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  the browser. Brilliant.
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  And I love that you brought up Strawberry.
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  This is your product. You were #1 product of the day
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  on Product Hunt. Congratulations.
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  I know it's a closed beta and you had said that you'll open it
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  up for anyone in this community here with AI for founders, and
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  we'll provide a link to do that. So what you're looking for is
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  use cases for the tool. So that case sounds amazing.
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  And I, I swear to God, a buddy of mine 2 days ago, he sent me a
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  text. He's like, hey man, build me a
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  tool that pulls all the receipts out of my inbox and puts them in
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  a Ledger. I, I swear to God, I don't know,
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  I don't need to swear to God. It seems a little bit like
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  overkill, but but he did and, and I was like, yeah, man,
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  actually I don't see how that would be a problem at all.
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  It with kind of the thought of like, you know what, somebody's
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  probably already built this and it sounds like that's exactly
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  something they could do. And but not only expenses,
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  right, 'cause I mean, honestly, there's a, a million tasks on
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  our inbox right now, especially now where our inboxes are
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  flooded that if you're inside Gmail, there's a lot of
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  repetitive tasks that if it's learning and it's like, oh, I
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  see your behavior, let me take over.
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  Boom, big glowing button. It fixes it.
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  Brilliant. I love.
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  It now. What?
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  What now? Strawberries a browser?
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  And I think that's an important differentiation, right?
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  So does this work on top of Chrome or exactly what's going
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  on with the browser? Absolutely.
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  So we are building this on top of Chromium the the the open
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  source software underneath Chrome, but we are building a
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  fully stand alone browser that has its own branding, its own
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  style, its own way of working. And of course the big difference
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  is that you install it and then it has a built in team of AI
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  companions we call them. And the whole goal of these
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  companions are to learn passively from you doing things.
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  Or you can teach them by, for instance, recording your screen
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  and showing a workflow to automate your grunt work.
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  And and you should be able to automate these tasks with this
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  team of AI companions without needing to write the line of
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  code. It should be just like teaching
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  an intern, right? That's the idea.
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  Why name them companions and not agents?
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  I think Agents kind of has this techie hard feeling to it and
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  you know, a lot of our users are going to be non-technical and
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  companion kind of sounds sweet and soft, right?
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  You know, they're they're your friends.
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  That's kind of the idea. Love it.
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  I love it, OK. And the idea of AI powered
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  browser is very interesting for a lot of reasons for companions,
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  of course. But then it also starts to
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  introduce the idea of data privacy.
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  And the the big conversation going on right now with browsers
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  is like who's who has the agency to control their data and
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  monetize their data. So when you're thinking about
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  just data and security, how what's the thought there from
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  the browser perspective? Absolutely.
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  I mean, the, the, the idea here is that right now, as with any
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  AI application, right, if you want to send some question that
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  contains some sensitive information, you will have to
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  send that to Open AI. You will have to send that to
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  Anthropic or whichever model provider you're using.
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  You can choose of course and, and we, we don't log anything.
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  And of course, these model providers, they, they also write
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  in their terms. We don't, we don't save logs
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  after 30 days. So they don't retain the data.
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  They won't train the models on that data.
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  But of course, in the future, we want to be able to take this one
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  step further. Of course, with the rise of open
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  source models and hardware getting better and better, soon
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  you're going to be able to run like a DeepSeek distil Quen
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  DeepSeek distil right on your laptop if you have one of the
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  latest busy Max, right? And then of course, you should
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  be able to use that model directly inside of Strawberry.
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  So for those tasks that maybe require more sensitive data,
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  it's never leaving your computer, right?
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  Yes. And the the browser, is it
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  connected to the cloud or is this is all running locally on
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  the independently on each device?
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  Yeah. So right now, because what the
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  the models that are needed have like they need to be very
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  intelligent. It's simply not feasible today
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  to have that running completely locally.
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  Yeah. So, so when you go into it, you
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  kind of have the expectations right now that I'm going to need
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  to trust Microsoft or open the eye or one of these big
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  companies. Amazing.
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  Back to the idea of companions and looking on your website, one
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  thing I really like is you're giving them names and
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  personalities. You know, I've talked a lot
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  about on the show that the as the the interface is chat that's
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  going to move more to natural language and we'll just be
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  talking to it like Star Trek. So as you have competition,
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  Camilla, you have data extraction, Denise, you have
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  LinkedIn, Linus, I love those names.
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  But you then you could actually differentiate with different
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  accents, perhaps different languages that way.
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  I think just the ease of use would be much better.
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  You know, you could you give them all different
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  personalities, you give them all things.
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  So when you want, you're like, hey Camilla, grab Denise and I
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  need you guys to work on this thing over here.
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  Yes, yes. You know.
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  I mean it, it makes me so happy and excited for you to say that
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  because this is at the core of what we want to create when it
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  comes to the experience of using this AI companions, they should
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  be like your team, right? Your very own team of AI interns
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  that just love working on even the most grunt work tasks,
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  right? And it should feel fun to work
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  together with them. You, you should be doing the
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  things that you're great at, which is like, of course,
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  recording this podcasts, then doing all of the follow up after
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  the podcast or sourcing all of these people you want to speak
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  to. That should be done by your
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  team, right? And they should be collaborating
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  and working together and have this, this amazing personalities
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  that make it fun to, to, to, to do your work right.
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  Yeah. Do you mind if I get a little
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  philosophic? Absolutely.
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  I love that. So there's a, a contemplative
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  technique that I really like called noting.
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  And basically what you do is you sit it calmly and breathe and
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  you just notice how your body's feeling.
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  So and you note here's like, OK, I feel a little bit of warm
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  sensation on the back of my neck.
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  My shoulder blades feel a little bit tight and as you start to
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  notice different sensations in your body, you start to see
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  there's a, a relative feeling to the emotional state or mental
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  state that you're you're going through.
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  So often times like, you know easily, like if something scary
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  happens, you feel it in your gut.
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  You're like, oh, my stomach kind of feels sick.
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  So what's interesting about like solving problems, especially
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  when we're starting to get more sophisticated with companions,
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  is that the, the better I'm able to like communicate my, what I'm
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  going through my frustrations. Ultimately, the companions are
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  there to fix my problems. So it's about it.
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  The, the, the skill that would become valuable is I identifying
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  what's driving you crazy so you know how to tap in the help.
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  And that will come, I think auditory first, where you can
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  say like, you know what, my morning ritual is driving me
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  crazy because I have to copy the events from my calendar into the
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  other calendar because for whatever reason, Google doesn't
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  allow me to connect these things.
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  So and then, you know, then, you know, Google Calendar Charlie is
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  going to be like, oh, Ryan, let me take care of that for you.
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  Thanks for explaining that so well.
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  And it's like, great, OK, as you're going through like, hey,
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  actually it's kind of irritating that I have to wait 3 seconds
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  for these answers. It's like, oh, well, wow, that's
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  cooking. Why don't I pull up two
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  different tabs? I guess the the point is, is
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  that the skill I'm trying to figure out is which is going to
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  be very important in the future is how to carefully enunciate
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  exactly what my problem is to a point where the the companions
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  can then build on top of that to create solutions.
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  Absolutely. I think this does at first
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  glance and first thought seem like something that we aren't
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  too far away from, like we already have these models that
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  can express themselves, but really capturing this small
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  nuances, I think this is going to be really tricky actually.
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  I think this is going to be one of those achievements within AI
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  that is like years away still. And you know, we're thinking
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  about it every single day and it's going to require some
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  progress within the base models themselves.
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  But if you just think about how the interface should be, how
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  your models see you work, of course a chat is not the way to
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  go here, right? Of course we shouldn't write out
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  a workflow with like drag and drop like, oh, like that.
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  That's the old mindset, right? The way we want to do it is it
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  should be like jumping into a call like this and like, OK, hi,
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  agents. And, you know, there, there are
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  four boxes and your agents, they have their avatars and they're
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  kind of looking at you, like nodding their heads, right?
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  And then you're like, OK, I'm going to show you guys how to do
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  this. This is so annoying.
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  Let me share my screen and you share your screen.
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  They kind of ask questions whilst you're working, right?
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  Like a real colleague would do. And then, you know, when they
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  feel confident, like, OK, yeah, we can do this now.
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  And the call is over. And then all of a sudden, you
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  know they're opening up tabs in the background, automating
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  things for you just like that. Yeah, no.
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  And what I think I it's, it's brilliant.
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  And what I love about what you're doing too is if it is,
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  we're adopting a chat function and it that'll, it's already
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  voice, we can that, that'll be enabled and what we can touch on
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  what the future might look like too.
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  But you're not making somebody go to a website.
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  So when I've been, I've been building all these tools and
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  then I just get frustrated working on the UI 'cause I'm
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  like, I don't, nobody wants to get an app, nobody wants to go
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  somewhere. So the more I thought about it,
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  it's like the more I should just be building this into text
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  messaging because that's where people already are.
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  But the browser is the other place that people already are.
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  They're already there. They don't need to go to the
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  website. It's right there waiting for
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  them wherever they're going, which is, which is brilliant.
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  I, I love that, you know, and so it, it becomes like more
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  intuitive and I'm with you here. I just, my battery dies all the
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  time. It, it becomes more intuitive
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  and it, it, you don't have to think about using it.
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  It's just there to help. There's not a destination, you
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  know what I mean? It's it's more like you bought
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  buddy wants to go over to his house to watch the game, but
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  Yep, he's got a terrible Internet connection and it's
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  always glitchy. You're like, no, dude, I want
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  you to come to my house to watch the game, you know, so.
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  Cool, now I I I get you 100%. Yeah, look into the future.
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  Here's one thing that I'm curious about, and I just want
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  to run it past you. As as we begin to more and more
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  use the tools to solve problems, the tools get smarter so they
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  can anticipate our problems before and they're moving
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  things. That's more pleasing for me in a
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  certain way. Now, my buddy Dave, you know,
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  said that the best AI tools make our humanness more human.
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  It makes us more human. So one attribute I think that's
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  interesting about human is kind of like attitude mindset.
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  If I'm engaged with the world in a curious and positive way, then
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  the world organizes itself in some ways around that.
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  You know, in the same way that if you see somebody who's like
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  brooding and all pissed off over here, you kind of stay away from
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  them. So they're organizing their
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  world in a way. OK, so, so let's say that like
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  the attributes, feelings that I have in my body are showing up
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  in my expressions, which is creating a, a world around me.
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  Is there going to be a future where are they're not predicting
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  your move in a browser or anything else, but rather
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  they're, they're taking your vital signs.
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  It's gonna know better than you do if your blood pressure's up,
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  if you have a bit of a fever, if you're tearing up, if your
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  pheromones are producing more. And so it will be able to Orient
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  things for you to, to create a feeling of whatever that may be
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  for you, you know? Yes, yes there.
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  I absolutely think that we're going to see that in the future.
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  I think it's a tricky problem to solve.
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  Specifically that part about like the blood pressure and
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  these vital signs that might be Apple's job, you know, or some
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  hardware company because they have the Apple Watch, right And
• 17:59
  then, you know, all of a sudden series like, oh, hey, Ryan, I
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  note that you're feeling a bit stressed.
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  Is it due to this e-mail you just got or something like that?
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  You know, and then and then it could help you, but I, I think
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  like, yeah, in not too long inside Strawberry browser, you
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  know, you're going to be in a meeting with your companions and
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  you're, you're, you know, you kind of express yourself with
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  the facial expressions. You didn't seem more tense.
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  You're like giving short answers.
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  And you know, all of a sudden one of your companions like, hey
• 18:29
  Ryan, you feel a bit tense. You know what's going on, what's
• 18:34
  happened? And and you're like, oh shit,
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  this thing happened, you know, and then and then and and then
• 18:39
  that that could lead to resolving some kind of issue,
• 18:43
  right. So, so I definitely see this as
• 18:46
  future, yeah. Or like neural linked.
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  Totally. You have a tough call, You have
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  a tough meeting. You're feeling bad.
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  Lunchtime, someone knocks on your door.
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  You're like, did you? Did my companion order me
• 18:59
  flowers? What a thoughtful gesture you.
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  Know Oh my God, you just gave me such a good idea right there.
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  I I'm writing that down right now, man.
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  Oh my goodness. Cool.
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  Let's let's go through that. Let's get out of science fiction
• 19:17
  land for a second here and talk about the other use cases that
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  you're really excited for. I mean, inside the inbox, huge.
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  Inside the calendar, huge. Be scraping data in like pulling
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  potent information off LinkedIn, huge.
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  What else is like really exciting you about Strawberry
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  right now? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a lot
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  about those ad hoc moments as well, right.
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  So say that you're a developer or a vibe coder, that's fine.
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  I'm not judging. And you're inside some kind of
• 19:46
  documentation, right? And you're really having a hard
• 19:49
  time finding like, oh, where do I find my API key?
• 19:52
  Like where do I create an API key in this platform?
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  So then you will just open the sidebar and you will ask your
• 19:59
  companion, hey, can you see where, where I can find the API
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  key? And you know, it could be some
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  link obscure far down on the page that you need to Click to
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  get there. And your companion will just
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  point that out and oh, OK, thank you.
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  And you'll pick that you know these small moments.
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  These micro frictions that get resolved, they don't seem
• 20:20
  significant, but they compound over time and it just feels like
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  you can stay in the flow for the entire day when you have these
• 20:29
  moments, right. That would definitely be one
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  another thing that would. Real quick, I'm just thinking
• 20:39
  about my problems right now. Yeah, so.
• 20:43
  I'm kind of a data hoarder, let's call it that.
• 20:45
  So like for example, like I got, I have probably 75 different
• 20:50
  links just short linked on my browser, you know, so I can go
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  there and I know I got to go through them and get rid of
• 20:57
  stuff that I haven't, you know, looked at in a while.
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  But if I could be like, hey browser Billy, like just if
• 21:05
  there has been a link in my bookmark bar that I haven't used
• 21:09
  in three months, get rid of it and just have it go like.
• 21:14
  Yes, yes. I mean, yes, yes, yes, this.
• 21:21
  Of course, your companions should be able to control the
• 21:24
  websites, click around and ultimate things on websites, but
• 21:28
  they should be able to do the same with the actual browser,
• 21:30
  right? So, so that definitely it should
• 21:33
  be able to ultimate things inside the browser.
• 21:35
  But say that you want to have your browser in the style of
• 21:41
  Terraria or Minecraft or like I want the Tamagotchi themed
• 21:45
  browser. You know, of course, one of your
• 21:49
  companions could just start editing the styling code inside
• 21:53
  of the actual browser and all of a sudden, boom, you have a
• 21:56
  completely customized browser that suits your needs.
• 22:01
  Oh, actually, I wanted the tabs as a sidebar, right?
• 22:04
  Or, you know, could you make the tabs fly around like small
• 22:08
  airplanes? Did you like vibe coding the
• 22:10
  entire browser experience, right?
• 22:13
  And this is like far down the road map, right?
• 22:16
  But it's just an example of what we can do.
• 22:19
  It's great, you know, and it's, it's really Sky's the limit.
• 22:22
  What it takes is like integration and I'm curious
• 22:24
  about you and how you're integrating AI tools into your
• 22:27
  life. This weekend was kind of
• 22:28
  interesting. I went to a developer and
• 22:31
  they're building properties and my wife and I were just going to
• 22:33
  check it out. And so we had some, some
• 22:36
  questions with the agent, you know, and so my wife's asking a
• 22:39
  couple of really good questions, very specific.
• 22:41
  And she, the agent was like, well, if you go to the website
• 22:45
  and we'll look for it, she started looking, I just typed it
• 22:48
  into GPT and I was like, oh, no, the answer is 18%, you know, So
• 22:53
  like for me, I'm trying to figure out every instance I can
• 22:56
  possibly use this to make my experience and everything I'm
• 22:59
  doing better. How about you?
• 23:01
  How are you kind of implementing different AI tools in kind of
• 23:04
  your daily life? Hey founders, let me ask you
• 23:08
  this. Are you building with AI or
• 23:11
  getting left behind by it? If you're serious about scaling
• 23:15
  smarter, faster and bolder, you need to check out AI for
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• 23:30
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• 23:34
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• 23:38
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• 24:00
  and it's all free. Build smarter, move faster,
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  think bolder with AI for Founders.
• 24:07
  Now back to the show. Well, I mean, I would be a
• 24:09
  massive fraud if I didn't say that I of course use Strawberry
• 24:14
  every single day, right? That's that's my favorite AI
• 24:18
  tool, but I'm I'm biased, right? I'm biased.
• 24:21
  No, it's second second most used AI tool, absolutely critical and
• 24:27
  has saved me hundreds of hours, if not thousands at this point.
• 24:32
  It's cursor and I am a developer.
• 24:36
  I've been programming professionally for six years and
• 24:42
  you know, in the beginning I was like, this is kind of like VS
• 24:46
  Codes, but it doesn't have everything I want.
• 24:49
  So I was skeptical. But I, I, I promise you, man, we
• 24:53
  have become maybe 3 * 4 times as productive just because the
• 24:58
  entire team is using cursor and there are ways to use cursor
• 25:02
  effectively. You need to know how to do that
• 25:04
  all. Right, any any quick tips for
• 25:06
  folks that are new to cursor? I mean, it's generally like you
• 25:11
  should have good coding practices.
• 25:13
  So if you vibe code the entire thing, that might be tricky.
• 25:17
  But if you learn the basics about like how can you create
• 25:20
  encapsulated code that has like single responsibility this this
• 25:25
  types of things. You can have like 1 file that is
• 25:28
  completely vibe coded that you don't fully understand maybe.
• 25:33
  But it it has, you know, its own isolated world.
• 25:37
  And then one day, if you ever need to optimize it or really
• 25:40
  understand how it works, you can rewrite it with minimal effort,
• 25:44
  Right? And then, I mean, after a while,
• 25:48
  you just get an intuition, I would say, by using it a lot for
• 25:52
  what the models are capable of, what they're not capable of.
• 25:55
  You can kind of see when a model starts writing if it understands
• 26:00
  what the, what the prompt was, right?
• 26:03
  Did you? Used a little bit, yeah.
• 26:05
  Yep. Yeah, yeah, cool.
• 26:11
  You know, these strawberry companions ultimately are
• 26:14
  solving a problem. If you were to put a bow on it,
• 26:17
  what problem is Strawberry solving?
• 26:21
  Yeah. So right now, the main problem
• 26:26
  that we're solving, it's kind of this abstract thing where it's
• 26:29
  like you have all of these like World Gardens with loads of
• 26:36
  amazing data. LinkedIn would of course be one
• 26:38
  example, which would be tricky for a normal agent to kind of
• 26:42
  access. But since we're in the browser,
• 26:45
  all you need to do is you need to log in to LinkedIn and then
• 26:47
  your agents will be able to access that via their own tabs,
• 26:50
  right? So you're taking this valuable
• 26:53
  data from World Gardens could be a dashboard, and you're
• 26:56
  structuring it with the help of the AI system.
• 26:58
  So it's just looking at the page information and it's outputting
• 27:02
  it in a structured way. And then finally that you you
• 27:06
  would insert that into some service like a Google Sheet or
• 27:10
  some other CRM, right? That's kind of the thing that
• 27:15
  we're the best at right now, that is saving our users the
• 27:18
  most time. Yeah, it's given.
• 27:21
  So it's giving people ease. So you're like, I don't want to
• 27:24
  look at the LinkedIn page like this.
• 27:26
  I want to see it itemized on a spreadsheet.
• 27:28
  Boom, done. Ease.
• 27:31
  It's like, yeah, totally removing groundwork.
• 27:35
  You you don't you shouldn't be looking for hundreds of people
• 27:39
  in your connections tab, for instance, because you you don't
• 27:43
  want to accept salespeople, but Co founders.
• 27:46
  You want to accept, you know, you can just easily create the
• 27:49
  companion, teach one. Hey, every week, every Monday,
• 27:53
  go for all of my connections and you know the criteria.
• 27:56
  So just do it please. Yeah, love it.
• 27:59
  Cool. You guys just launched pretty
• 28:01
  recently, still in a personal beta.
• 28:04
  How have you financed the project so far?
• 28:08
  Yes. So we have actually taken in the
• 28:10
  precede round from a Tier 1 investor here in in Europe
• 28:16
  actually and and a few smaller investors in the US as well.
• 28:21
  And that has been the, the main way we have funded things so far
• 28:26
  like computation costs. But otherwise we've been really
• 28:31
  lean. And the, the plan is actually to
• 28:34
  move to San Francisco. So we are a Delaware C Corp.
• 28:37
  We are moving to, to SF. That's the place to be right
• 28:41
  when you're building cutting edge.
• 28:42
  Oh. Denver, you got to come to
• 28:44
  Denver. We got a, we got a nice squad
• 28:46
  here. I will definitely come and
• 28:50
  visit. I would love to do that, but
• 28:52
  it's cold. It's cold.
• 28:53
  It's like Sweden. Yeah, and guess what?
• 28:57
  I don't like that. I'm trying to move for a reason.
• 29:00
  Nice. How much have you raised so far
• 29:02
  to date? So I, I, I would actually prefer
• 29:08
  maybe not to speak about it right now.
• 29:09
  We still have not announced that yet.
• 29:12
  No problem. Oh, I see that Anton Osika is
• 29:16
  actually calling me right now. Let me say, can't speak.
• 29:21
  Can't. Can I call in 30 minutes?
• 29:25
  Get the Strawberry CEO sing him. Sing him a song.
• 29:29
  Yeah, yeah, I actually had a demo for Anton the other day
• 29:34
  where I I told my companion Laura, go to Anton's page, do
• 29:38
  some deep research about him, and then write a lullaby about
• 29:42
  everything we know about him and send it to him.
• 29:44
  Beautiful. I love it.
• 29:46
  How many people are on the team? So right now we are four people
• 29:51
  and we're looking to have like this, a team of seven.
• 29:54
  So pretty Lynn, until we until we start seeing some very clear
• 30:00
  signs of product market fits, you know, having like 100 users
• 30:04
  who use it every single day and saving many, many hours at that
• 30:08
  point, we will definitely look at scaling up more, scaling up
• 30:11
  faster. Awesome, cool.
• 30:14
  How many customers do you have right now using it?
• 30:18
  Yeah, so I mean, we just launched so like I would say we
• 30:22
  have a few 100 users, but they're they're mostly on the
• 30:26
  the fridge tier, right. Yeah, but definitely got some
• 30:31
  some teams looking at buying a teams plan.
• 30:33
  We have one large Co working space here in Stockholm that
• 30:36
  want to buy licenses for all of their companies.
• 30:39
  So super exciting times. It's great.
• 30:43
  And as you're looking at a business model, it's kind of a
• 30:45
  SAS seat model. It looks like you're going for
• 30:47
  and with usage. How are you kind of structuring
• 30:50
  the business model like in kind of a precede stage?
• 30:55
  Yeah, so it's kind of copy pasting what cursor have.
• 30:59
  Right now you have the, the, the, the, the free tier that's
• 31:04
  super generous. So people can try it out and
• 31:07
  really test everything. And then, you know, the
• 31:10
  personal, personal tier for $20. We'll see if we land on that or
• 31:15
  change that. And then $40.00 for the team's
• 31:18
  plan. And the team's plan will of
• 31:21
  course have some some extra nice features, goes without saying,
• 31:26
  but just having unified billing is is a big one.
• 31:29
  Absolutely. Nice.
• 31:32
  You mentioned you've been writing code for six years.
• 31:36
  What? Talk to us about your
• 31:38
  entrepreneurial journey. Have you had companies in the
• 31:41
  past and how does that tie into what you're doing now?
• 31:45
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 31:46
  I mean, I started coding when I was 11, so I've been
• 31:48
  professionally coding for six years, but it started way, way
• 31:52
  earlier. And you know, back then it was
• 31:54
  just creating video games and different apps for the iPhone.
• 31:58
  Things like that. Got serious.
• 32:01
  Actually built my first AI agents back in 2019.
• 32:04
  And that was actually an ecosystem simulator.
• 32:07
  She had these small microorganisms that had simple
• 32:11
  feed for feed for would neural Nets and they would evolve over
• 32:16
  time to kind of attack each other and and have herd
• 32:19
  behaviors. Managed to win like a
• 32:23
  international science competition with that which is
• 32:26
  pretty insane. Wow, did you really?
• 32:28
  Then felt yes I won like one of the largest in the world.
• 32:33
  I think they're 10,000,010 million participants each year
• 32:37
  so it's in China. Cool.
• 32:41
  And yeah, and I have no idea how I managed to win that because
• 32:46
  there were way more impressive projects, man.
• 32:48
  Like what 1 Turkish girl had had managed to find a way to detect
• 32:53
  if you're more prone for depression through using quantum
• 32:56
  mechanical analysis on the blog. That's cool.
• 33:02
  I know, man. Yeah.
• 33:05
  But I think the project was just really creative, right?
• 33:09
  And and I had this thing going where, you know, I had the AI
• 33:13
  aspect where I had programmed, of course, the brains of each
• 33:18
  agent, each Organism. So when a biology jury came up,
• 33:21
  I would only talk about the AI part.
• 33:24
  But then when an AI jury came up, I would only talk about the
• 33:27
  biology part. So I would leverage the things
• 33:30
  that they didn't know that that well.
• 33:32
  And they, they were always super impressed.
• 33:36
  Anyways, Fast forward after that felt, you know, I don't, I don't
• 33:39
  need to do university. I can just, I, I, I felt like I
• 33:42
  was on top of the world, right? So founded a green tech company,
• 33:46
  which I was the CTO for. We actually ended up being
• 33:51
  acquired by customer. So they bought the IP there and
• 33:56
  then after that worked on a video game actually.
• 33:58
  So built a video game company, released a few games.
• 34:02
  The most popular one was a game called Fish Arts, which is a PvP
• 34:07
  multiplayer game where you play as a fish wizard, you shoot
• 34:10
  spells at each other with your friends.
• 34:15
  And then after that, did some consulting for the Swedish
• 34:18
  government. You can kind of hear that I've
• 34:19
  been all over the place finally now about two years ago, I
• 34:24
  guess. Yeah, almost two years ago, GPT
• 34:28
  4 API drops. Played around with that, did
• 34:32
  some consulting work, realized that hey, I want my agents to be
• 34:36
  able to go into LinkedIn and do things right.
• 34:39
  And for that, since there was no good API, you'd have to spin up
• 34:42
  a browser and and maintain all of the things related to the
• 34:46
  browser. So essentially built ASDK that
• 34:51
  developers could use to build web agents and then that
• 34:54
  eventually evolved into a more complex version of that initial
• 34:59
  project. And then eventually evolved into
• 35:03
  what you said today, which is not a technical product, but
• 35:07
  still has the vision to build this Internet with web agents
• 35:12
  communicating and alternating things.
• 35:14
  But we're we're kind of making it accessible for non-technical
• 35:17
  users as well. Incredible.
• 35:19
  How old are you? 24. 24 Unbelievable married You
• 35:26
  got kids. No, no, nothing like that.
• 35:30
  Nothing like that. Awesome.
• 35:32
  When you're thinking about going to San Francisco, obviously
• 35:37
  there's a community there that's waiting for you.
• 35:40
  But aside from that, what are the benefits of being in San
• 35:42
  Francisco or America as it as it relates to Sweden?
• 35:47
  Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, Stockholm is
• 35:50
  kind of touted as the Silicon Valley of Europe, but you know,
• 35:56
  it, it still pales in comparison to the energy and the the, the
• 36:03
  kind of knowledge flying around in San Francisco.
• 36:05
  You have all of the great partnerships.
• 36:07
  You're way closer to all of the great partnerships with all
• 36:10
  kinds of amazing companies. You know, and all of the world's
• 36:14
  largest companies are sending their product managers to San
• 36:17
  Francisco to figure out their AI strategy.
• 36:20
  And, you know, the best talent that is the most bleeding edge
• 36:25
  within the space. They're all in San Francisco.
• 36:28
  Like all of my best Swedish founder friends are in San
• 36:32
  Francisco for this reason. And, you know, the capital
• 36:36
  market is maybe maybe comparable for early stage, but medium and
• 36:42
  late stage, you know, it's completely different.
• 36:45
  Yeah. So yeah, these are just a few of
• 36:48
  the reasons to be honest. No, it makes sense.
• 36:51
  I don't do politics on the show, but Trump's selling green cards
• 36:55
  for 5,000,000 bucks. You think it's a good deal?
• 37:01
  I think it's just easier to get the normal lawyer and do it.
• 37:04
  I think that's going to be way cheaper as well.
• 37:06
  So I mean, maybe that one is good for people that usually
• 37:11
  could not legally get get one or just want to do it really fast.
• 37:15
  I, I, I, I don't know. I don't know.
• 37:18
  Cool, where can people connect with you best online?
• 37:23
  I would say probably LinkedIn and X right now.
• 37:28
  Got it. Cool man.
• 37:30
  When you are raising your next round, will you send me a deck?
• 37:35
  Of course, of course I will do that.
• 37:38
  Yeah, this is, this is really exciting.
• 37:41
  And now Anton is calling again here, yeah.
• 37:44
  We can wrap absolutely and tip for those calls.
• 37:46
  Bye. Yeah, yeah, that would be nice
• 37:50
  actually. That's good to get some good
• 37:52
  advice from him. Cool, Charles, thank you so
• 37:54
  much. Have a wonderful day.
• 37:57
  Thank you. Bye.
• 37:57
  Bye. So let's talk about podcasts for
• 38:01
  a second. You're listening to 1, which is
• 38:03
  awesome by the way. Thank you so much.
• 38:05
  But have you ever thought about being a guest on a podcast?
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• 38:50
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