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Episode 108 - Your Clothing Speaks Long Before You Do · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Pete: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. Quick question. Amanda, when you got dressed this morning, what were you thinking? Like, honestly, like, were you actively thinking about how you were gonna look today? Or, like, no, you just put some shit on and just came to work.
• 0:14
  Amanda: Wow. Feel targeted. And now I feel defensive.
• 0:18
  Pete: Yeah.
• 0:18
  Amanda: But I absolutely did not think about anything.
• 0:20
  Pete: No, I could tell because, like, when you wear those farmer overalls.
• 0:23
  Amanda: I like my overalls.
• 0:25
  Pete: I always get a vibe that you can't obviously tell. So here's the thing that nobody actually talks about. Right. I guess I should say we don't really think about. You know how they always say first impressions, like, matter, like, a lot. They make a big difference. Okay, so I never really thought that included clothes. Did you?
• 0:41
  Amanda: Well, I mean, now that we're talking about it, it makes sense that it would include clothes.
• 0:44
  Pete: Okay, But. But. Right. But at first thought I was like, no, it doesn't. Yeah. Okay. So I was getting ready for my next vacay coming up. Right. We're going to Norway. And so I had to call my stylist, you know? Right. Welcome, Silas. We'll talk. We. We'll talk to him in a second. Right. But he explained that clothes make the first impression before, like anything else does. Before the handshake, before the smile, before everything. And he wrote a book about it. So instead of me trying to explain this all, I just decided we would invite him to the studio today, and he could tell us all about it. Cause he's way more sophisticated.
• 1:12
  Amanda: Oh, I'm so excited.
• 1:13
  Pete: Yes.
• 1:13
  Rod Alan Baker: And you really need it, so thank you so much.
• 1:16
  Amanda: Well, I like him already.
• 1:18
  Pete: He doesn't even need an introduction. Okay, so here's what we're gonna cover today. We'll go through it real quick. First, we're gonna cover the history of why clothes have always been a language and. And why Napoleon Hill, of all people, decided to write an entire essay about it in 1920. Books dedicated to it. Second, a conversation with maybe the best clothing psychologist on the planet.
• 1:35
  Rod Alan Baker: Maybe.
• 1:36
  Pete: Maybe. Okay. The best.
• 1:37
  Rod Alan Baker: You got the golden goose here.
• 1:39
  Pete: I got the golden nugget here.
• 1:40
  Amanda: Right?
• 1:40
  Pete: And he's gonna take us through his new book and how your clothes actually talk for you. And then finally, what any of this says about the deeper thing that we always try to connect things to, but we don't really admit, which is, how do we stop being invisible? Because people inherently want to be seen, and clothes are part of that, even if we don't want to admit they're part of it. So that's The Promise today. Here we are, episode 108. Welcome back to Sort of sophisticated, the podcast where culture, curiosity, and chaos collide. I'm Pete, and I'm here with Amanda, as always. Hello, Amanda.
• 2:08
  Amanda: Hello. Hello.
• 2:09
  Pete: How you doing today?
• 2:10
  Amanda: Oh, I'm great. How are you?
• 2:11
  Pete: I'm doing fine. And I'm not making fun of your clothes. I think it's cool that, like, the last three weeks in a row, we have had the same color.
• 2:17
  Amanda: Yeah, we have to talk about that. What does it say about you? We've been smoking when you like the same, like, color palette.
• 2:22
  Pete: Yes.
• 2:22
  Amanda: Because somehow we.
• 2:23
  Pete: It's been happening a lot.
• 2:24
  Rod Alan Baker: No way.
• 2:25
  Pete: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Amanda: Not coordinating. Just so happens we like the same colors.
• 2:28
  Rod Alan Baker: You guys drink the same coffee or what?
• 2:29
  Amanda: This homie doesn't need any more caffeine.
• 2:31
  Pete: I don't. I'm not. I'm not a coffee guy, dude. No, I can't do it. No. You know me.
• 2:34
  Rod Alan Baker: You're already wired.
• 2:36
  Pete: I am. I get excited to be here, bro. This is like. This is a highlight of my week.
• 2:40
  Rod Alan Baker: It was because. Because I'm coming.
• 2:42
  Pete: Is that what it was?
• 2:42
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:43
  Pete: Okay, well, we'll see. Okay, let's cut the crap. Can I just officially introduce you? Please? Okay, fine. So here we look in the camera. Sure. Rod Allen Baker, ladies and gentlemen. Rab. Rab. Okay. He happens to just be my personal stylist, as we now know, and this episode has been on my list for a while because Rod is one of those guys that when you have a conversation with him, sort of. He does the good Jedi mind trick stuff on you that we always talk about. So I was left always completely rethinking how I'm showing up in my life thanks to my. My clothing psychologist. Right. I've been doing. He. He was nice enough to tell me I've been doing everything wrong my whole life. So we're gonna fix that today, and the two of us are gonna get sort of a schooling on all things clothing. Okay? So here's what you need to know about Rod. Rod has been doing this work for over 40 years. 40 years. What, did you start when you were 10? When you were nine?
• 3:36
  Amanda: Huh?
• 3:36
  Pete: Three. Three. Okay, 43. What did you do? Okay. He's a clothing psychologist. That's actually his title. I'm not making that shit up. Okay. And a wardrobe designer. He styles for clients right here in Orange county at South Coast Plaza. He's been featured in the Rob Report. He co created something called the extraordinarily you concept with his business partner, Rick Wagner. We Will get into this whole thing. He's co authored a three book series. Three, thank you very much.
• 3:59
  Rod Alan Baker: So far.
• 4:00
  Pete: So far. So I like that.
• 4:01
  Amanda: So not a trilogy. We're leaving it open.
• 4:02
  Pete: No, we're leaving it open.
• 4:03
  Rod Alan Baker: It's open.
• 4:04
  Pete: And the reason he's here today is because we're gonna talk about his newest book called you'd Clothing Speaks Long before youe do, which I also stole to be our official episode title today.
• 4:14
  Amanda: Love it.
• 4:15
  Pete: Because that's how it was released yesterday, by the way. Yesterday? When was it released?
• 4:19
  Rod Alan Baker: Plug Amazon.
• 4:20
  Pete: Amazon. Released on Amazon, everybody. For the low, low price of as
• 4:24
  Rod Alan Baker: much as I can get.
• 4:25
  Pete: There we go. I like that. Okay, before we start, I have to give you. Since clothing is our theme today, I'm giving you a shirt. Thank you very much. Do you really. You really love the color, right? I really. I picked it out on purpose for you. Sort of sophisticated.
• 4:39
  Rod Alan Baker: You get your personal wash. Meow.
• 4:41
  Pete: You get your. Okay, whatever. There it is.
• 4:43
  Rod Alan Baker: Boom.
• 4:45
  Pete: I love it. Welcome, Rob.
• 4:47
  Rod Alan Baker: Thank you. Thank you, Pete.
• 4:48
  Amanda: Well, the pleasure is all ours. So is this a fashion episode?
• 4:52
  Pete: This is absolutely not a fashion episode. No, this is actually a psychology episode, because you know me and my psychology. This is a communication piece. This is going to be nuts. We're going to talk about fashion, but, like, fashion, the overlay, like, not the way you normally think. We would talk about it, more like how to be intentional in our life about everything related to fashion.
• 5:13
  Amanda: We're going deep.
• 5:14
  Pete: We have to go. That's what we do.
• 5:16
  Rod Alan Baker: We're going on the inside.
• 5:17
  Amanda: Okay.
• 5:18
  Pete: We're getting into the nuggets. We're getting into the nuggets.
• 5:20
  Amanda: I'm here for it. But do we have a word of the week?
• 5:22
  Pete: We do. Here we go. Ready? Our word of the week is swivet. Swivet. Rod, do you get what the word of the week is? Do you understand, like, the concept behind what we do here?
• 5:30
  Amanda: Yeah.
• 5:31
  Pete: Okay. All right. So we had to just say it somewhere.
• 5:33
  Rod Alan Baker: You're going to define that? Because I think it's something different than what you think it is.
• 5:37
  Pete: I think swivet. Do you know what swivet is, Amanda?
• 5:39
  Rod Alan Baker: No.
• 5:39
  Pete: No. You wanna take a yes? No, that doesn't sound like it.
• 5:44
  Rod Alan Baker: I swiveted in my chair, but I'm not sure.
• 5:47
  Pete: No, that's swiveled. Oh, is that what it is? You might have swiveted in your pants. Who knows? Okay, so swivet is a noun, and it means a state of extreme agitation, nervous excitement, or minor panic.
• 5:59
  Rod Alan Baker: Dad, I Think I'm looking at him.
• 6:00
  Pete: Right. Thank you.
• 6:01
  Amanda: Right.
• 6:03
  Pete: It's usually used in a phrase, like in a swivet. Like, I'm in a swivet. That's like, the whole concept behind it phrase. Okay. Most of the times it's used for something small, but, like, you're spiraling anyway. Nobody really knows where it came from. It first appeared in the 1890s in a collection of peculiar words and usages out in Kentucky somewhere. I don't know where I found that on the Internet, but that's legit stuff. Then it started being used all around the south, but nobody knows for sure how it originated. All we know is that in the 1950s, it was being used regularly by everybody. Oh, my God. I'm in a swivet. I'm in a swivet. So that's how you gotta use it today. All right, so I'm assuming either one of you at one point are gonna look at me and be like, dude, relax. You're in a swivet. It's gonna be that simple.
• 6:39
  Rod Alan Baker: I thought that exact same thing when I looked at you.
• 6:42
  Amanda: Easy peasy.
• 6:43
  Pete: Here we go.
• 6:43
  Amanda: Here we go. Alrighty. So 1950s, is that where fashion starts?
• 6:47
  Pete: No. Way before then. Way before then. But first, if you like what you're listening to, hit subscribe. Follow us. New episodes come out weekly on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. No, it goes way before that.
• 6:58
  Amanda: Well, I figured, but it was just like a good segue to your history section.
• 7:03
  Pete: Dude, this goes back really far. I'm see what you know. Are you ready? So I'll do history, and then we're going to turn the whole thing over to you, and then you're going to just answer a bunch of our questions that we know nothing about. Okay, here's the deal.
• 7:13
  Amanda: Well, in all fairness, are we talking about, like, actual fashion starting or we're talking about the communication of fashion?
• 7:17
  Pete: The communication of fashion. Okay, thank you.
• 7:19
  Amanda: So when does it start?
• 7:19
  Pete: That was a good, sophisticated, clarifying moment. So it starts 75,000 years ago. Some archeologists dug up a cave somewhere in South Africa, found these little shell beads, necklaces, whatever somebody strung together. And that is the first actual evidence that we have that someone was trying to differentiate themselves, to communicate something, whether it be, like, hierarchy or fashion or whatever it was. Right. 75,000 years ago. That's insane. Okay, then fast forward to ancient Rome, because everything's in ancient Rome, and they sort of make everything official because that's what they did back then, and they Started putting stripes on their togas. Right. And that represented rank. So you could separate regular people from, like, the upper class or whatever. Nobility. I don't remember. Whatever.
• 8:00
  Amanda: Okay.
• 8:00
  Pete: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So way back, all the way back to. So now fast forward another giant tranche to the 1920s, and we get to Napoleon Hill. Yes. The same guy who wrote Think and Grow rich, which is like the most famous book ever written on the planet. And he writes this essay called the psychology of good Clothes. This is where Rod's gonna come in. And his whole argument was, dress like a loser, think like a loser, dress like a winner, be a winner. I mean, that's kind of simple. Like the way you dress mattered. He argued clothing was what he called dressing with intention. It was the cheapest investment that you could make in your own psychology and well being. Holy shit. I knew nothing about this. This was wild to me. And that essay, Rod actually cites as one of his biggest inspiration for all his books. Am I right?
• 8:41
  Rod Alan Baker: That is correct.
• 8:42
  Pete: Napoleon Hill.
• 8:43
  Rod Alan Baker: Yes.
• 8:43
  Pete: Look at that. It's incredible. So he's going to talk all about that. Fast forward. We're almost done. I'm going to let Rod talk. All the major universities have done a ton of research now and basically concluded the same thing that Napoleon Hill concluded back in 1920. The idea that what you wear literally changes how you think about yourself and how other people process and see you. That's it. That's the history. That's why we're doing this episode. Okay, Rod, are you ready?
• 9:06
  Rod Alan Baker: I'm ready.
• 9:07
  Pete: You ready? You ready, Freddie?
• 9:08
  Rod Alan Baker: I'm ready, Freddie.
• 9:08
  Pete: Here we go. So the book you, clothing speaks long before you do.
• 9:11
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Pete: How long before? Let's start with how, like, how early are we actually talking? You're like, first sight. First sight.
• 9:17
  Rod Alan Baker: First sight.
• 9:18
  Pete: As soon as I come around the corner.
• 9:19
  Rod Alan Baker: Just met you, what, like 10 minutes ago.
• 9:21
  Amanda: Yes.
• 9:21
  Rod Alan Baker: Right.
• 9:22
  Pete: Oh, what did you think of Amanda?
• 9:23
  Rod Alan Baker: I walked in.
• 9:24
  Pete: This is excellent already.
• 9:25
  Rod Alan Baker: I love what you think of you.
• 9:27
  Pete: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Amanda: Oh, I was like, this is honesty right here. Yeah. I was like, he's sharp.
• 9:30
  Pete: What? What did you think of? What did you think of farmer, Amanda?
• 9:33
  Rod Alan Baker: Did you.
• 9:34
  Amanda: I'm not dressed up enough.
• 9:35
  Rod Alan Baker: Did you think that I was like a solicitor selling copy machines or did you know that I was the person that was coming on the show? I mean, you knew.
• 9:44
  Amanda: Yeah, I knew that.
• 9:45
  Rod Alan Baker: So I was communicating from the first glance. Didn't take three seconds. Didn't take seven seconds.
• 9:50
  Pete: Okay, but that's not fair because you already know this because you wrote the books and you're that you hacked the system. Look at us right now. Are you like, oh, dude, they missed this. This is a podcast. They should be dressed, like. Give us your first impression.
• 10:01
  Rod Alan Baker: You know what? I'm going to take a step back, because what I've done in the 40 years of doing this, even though I've been practicing it for 40 years, but I discovered this, like, way back, even when I was a kid, I realized that when I would look at pictures of myself, I would go, ooh, I like the way that looks and what that says about me better than maybe another picture. And so I started understanding that clothes do so much more for you, which is exactly what Napoleon Hill talked about if you read his entire essay. He talked about his mission, where he wanted to work for this publishing house. And he knew the owner of the publishing house because he saw him walk down the street, street every day. And so what he wanted to do is he wanted to get in front of that guy, which was untouchable. So what he did is he went out and he got a whole bunch of clothes made for him, because back in the 1920s, they didn't have department stores anyway. So every day he walked down the street next to the publisher, the owner of the publishing house, in his nice clothes. After about a week or so, he started saying hi to the publisher. The publisher looked at me and he went, oh, my God. How are you? Having a good day? He would see him every day, until one day the guy asked, what exactly do you do? He goes, well, I'm actually a writer. And the publisher goes, really? Why don't you come up to my office and let's talk?
• 11:31
  Pete: Wow.
• 11:32
  Rod Alan Baker: That was Napoleon Hill's first job.
• 11:35
  Pete: No shit.
• 11:36
  Rod Alan Baker: So what he was wearing communicated to the publisher that was, by the way, so protected that you couldn't even got to him if you tried. So he got in front of that person, ended up being the top writer for that company. So anyway, it's because he looked the position. I always tell this to you, and I probably said this to you.
• 11:57
  Pete: Yeah, I don't listen. I don't listen to half the shit
• 11:59
  Rod Alan Baker: you say to me is don't dress for the position you're in. Dress for the position you want. That's just one other phrase. Like, your clothing speaks long before you do because it's going to say that this is a position that I should be in.
• 12:16
  Pete: But, like, so. So I have to interrupt you because you were a young kid, you said, and you figured all this out, and you looked at pictures of you and you were like, oh, I like this look. I don't like this look. And that sounds. We just did Marilyn Monroe. And that basically how she started. Remember, she went home and she was, like, taking photographs of herself, figuring out, like, what the camera liked. So I'm going to argue you had a little bit of a gift or some sort of some interest. When I was a kid growing up, I didn't give two shits. I looked at pictures. I was like, whatever. Like, so for folks that get it, they get it. For folks that don't get it, like me, can you train it into me?
• 12:44
  Rod Alan Baker: That's why I wrote the books. Okay, so let me. Let me take another step back. So what I did is through this process of doing the business, I learned that there were some components that I did with everyone. So, like, if you decided you wanted me to dress you. Okay.
• 13:00
  Pete: You're like, rod, I'd like to see that, please. Thank you.
• 13:02
  Rod Alan Baker: You know, there's. I'm going to this event. I'm doing this. I'm going on a trip, like we did for your vacation.
• 13:09
  Pete: We're going to Hawaii together. Do you want him to dress you for Hawaii?
• 13:11
  Rod Alan Baker: See, there you go.
• 13:12
  Pete: He could pick out a good, Maybe a nice.
• 13:14
  Amanda: I mean, I do want to give, like, Rod a challenge at the end of this.
• 13:16
  Pete: Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry, sorry. Go ahead.
• 13:19
  Rod Alan Baker: So what I found is that in dressing someone, I needed to go inside first. Because if you think about it, that's
• 13:27
  Pete: why you asked me two hours worth of questions.
• 13:29
  Rod Alan Baker: Exactly.
• 13:30
  Pete: That, all of a sudden, makes sense. I thought you were just being dick.
• 13:33
  Rod Alan Baker: I learned what a nut job you are.
• 13:35
  Pete: Holy crap. That makes sense now.
• 13:37
  Rod Alan Baker: Exactly. And that's why. Okay, so easy for us. Within a couple hours, I literally put together a whole wardrobe for you.
• 13:44
  Pete: You hacked me. You know, I'm a little embarrassed. You hacked me.
• 13:48
  Rod Alan Baker: So. So you got me.
• 13:50
  Pete: You know what, Rod? You got me all up in a swivet. Done. That was easy enough.
• 13:54
  Rod Alan Baker: No, that was an. So what I did is. All I do is I just switch places with you. But now, what are the ingredients of you versus me? Okay. You have a certain passion in life. That's an important ingredient to every one of us. It could be travel. It could be cars. It could be fashion. It could be kids. It could be education. It could be a lot of different things.
• 14:20
  Pete: My passion is reading your three books.
• 14:22
  Rod Alan Baker: Bingo.
• 14:23
  Pete: You're welcome.
• 14:24
  Rod Alan Baker: For a minute. So that's an important ingredient in how I dress people. Okay, the next one, which is really complicated. And this is where it Gets into the psychology. Pete.
• 14:35
  Pete: Yep.
• 14:36
  Rod Alan Baker: I learned that there are different personality types.
• 14:40
  Amanda: Oh, my God. You say like, personality types. Do you have, like, categories or.
• 14:44
  Rod Alan Baker: I went to the clinical. Okay, okay. And basically a clinical psychology study was done with four groups. One is choleric, which is that real doer, driver personality. Actually kind of an ass sometimes it's. Especially when it's extreme, which he can be. So that choleric personality. And by the way, the one thing I learned in dealing with those people is there was only one thing that was important to him. Guess what it was?
• 15:11
  Amanda: Being right.
• 15:12
  Rod Alan Baker: Nope. Results.
• 15:13
  Amanda: Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
• 15:14
  Rod Alan Baker: They don't care about you. They don't care about you. All they care about is it going to be done Tuesday.
• 15:19
  Pete: Interesting.
• 15:19
  Rod Alan Baker: All right, so the next personality type is the expressive personality. Sanguine. If anybody knows the clinical terms, sanguine
• 15:29
  Pete: person should have been our word of the day, by the way.
• 15:30
  Rod Alan Baker: Doesn't care about results. All they care about is that they want all eyes on them.
• 15:35
  Pete: Okay.
• 15:36
  Rod Alan Baker: They're very emotional. They're very splashy. They're the ones that when you walk in the room, they're going to have a yellow shirt on, red shirt.
• 15:45
  Pete: Don't look at me, don't look at me. That's not me.
• 15:47
  Rod Alan Baker: Bold.
• 15:48
  Pete: Right.
• 15:49
  Rod Alan Baker: They're the ones that, when, you know, the red carpet, whoever is in the splashiest deal, that's probably someone that has a real sanguine personality.
• 15:58
  Pete: Okay.
• 15:58
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. Then the next one is a phlegmatic person.
• 16:01
  Pete: I'm sorry, Flagmatic.
• 16:03
  Rod Alan Baker: Flagmatic person.
• 16:04
  Pete: That's not even a word. You're bullshitting me. What does that mean?
• 16:06
  Amanda: It is.
• 16:06
  Rod Alan Baker: It's phlegmatic. And what it means is that they're about facts. They're about, you know, they're. They're about that everything matches and it's all detailed out. Then the other one is the melancholy personality. Okay. And that. That' person that's all about trust.
• 16:22
  Pete: Okay.
• 16:23
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. That's a person that's all about, you know, relationship.
• 16:26
  Pete: Dude, everybody does not fall into one of these four.
• 16:28
  Rod Alan Baker: No. You know what's crazy?
• 16:30
  Amanda: Expressive, analytical. Amy.
• 16:32
  Pete: Okay, I got it. But like. But there's nuances of this because I just picked, like, I'm. I'm three of those, like in little
• 16:36
  Amanda: bits, depending on there's versatility that comes with it. I am on the same wavelength.
• 16:40
  Pete: Okay, fine. I got it, I got it.
• 16:42
  Amanda: Okay.
• 16:42
  Pete: Keep grooving over there.
• 16:43
  Rod Alan Baker: Just so you know, you guys are
• 16:44
  Pete: clearly in your little swivet. Go ahead.
• 16:45
  Amanda: Yes. And a secondary.
• 16:46
  Rod Alan Baker: Secondary personality.
• 16:47
  Pete: Got It.
• 16:48
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. The primary is how we work every day. Okay. Like just walking around. Second when the house is on fire, that's where. That's where our secondary.
• 16:57
  Amanda: You get through your crazy zones.
• 16:59
  Pete: Okay. And like, you like, wow, I don't like this. I feel like I'm on the couch.
• 17:04
  Amanda: You like and you like. Yeah. And then you kind of switch. You, like, divert more to your secondary than your primary.
• 17:09
  Pete: I think you guys have officially hijacked. This is excellent. Continue.
• 17:12
  Rod Alan Baker: I love this also when you mature.
• 17:14
  Pete: Yeah.
• 17:15
  Rod Alan Baker: Is you find yourself, no matter who you're dealing with, of the four personality types, you can chameleon yourself between them all to be able to work with certain people that maybe when you were in your youth, you weren't able to work with very much. Like, for me, when I started this business, I was 19.
• 17:33
  Pete: Okay.
• 17:34
  Rod Alan Baker: And I had probably more cleric doer personalities than any other personality because they were CEO type of people, they were wealthy, they were just drivers. And I learned to work with those people because I realized what they wanted more important than anything. And that was results.
• 17:54
  Pete: Yeah. And so that's where the clothing psychologist comes in. Like, that's the whole point. Yeah. Okay.
• 17:59
  Rod Alan Baker: Again, that's a part of going in there.
• 18:01
  Pete: Yeah.
• 18:01
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. So then the personality type is a category that I identified in going inside somebody. The third one is the groups that you're with. If you're in a boardroom, you're probably not showing up in the board shorts you got on.
• 18:15
  Pete: No, that's true.
• 18:16
  Rod Alan Baker: So you're going to dress more for the boardroom. We talked about suits and things the other day. That's when you're going to dress more for the group that you're going to be with. If you're going to be with CEOs, it's going to be a lot different than if you're with the I.T. guys. Right. Or construction guys or whatever. You're kind of in that financial world. The financial world has a real dress kind of. You know, if you're. If you're going to a convention, you're probably gonna dress different there than you are here.
• 18:44
  Amanda: Yes.
• 18:45
  Rod Alan Baker: When you.
• 18:45
  Pete: Well, I mean, I would argue Amanda wouldn't, because Amanda could give two shits about what she puts on. Which is a whole nother question that I have, because I don't think she fits this.
• 18:52
  Rod Alan Baker: I would disagree with you. But anyway, she understands the group part. So again, that's the third part of the concert.
• 19:00
  Pete: Yeah, I got you.
• 19:00
  Rod Alan Baker: The fourth is. Is the settings. Okay. If I were in, you know, the 53rd floor of a high rise, and. And I'm in a boardroom meeting, and I'm probably going to dress different than if I'm meeting somebody at a Starbucks.
• 19:15
  Pete: Well, how did you do me, dude? Because I said I was going on vacation, bro. Like, I just said update my wardrobe,
• 19:19
  Rod Alan Baker: and you told me where you were going, and so.
• 19:22
  Pete: All right. So you sort of.
• 19:23
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:24
  Pete: You adjusted to the whole European style.
• 19:26
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. You know.
• 19:27
  Pete: Yeah, yeah, I remember. I remember that.
• 19:28
  Amanda: But, like, I do believe when going to. Even to Greece. Greece, right. When you went or visiting another country, like, being a part of that culture. I mean, not dressing obviously in, like, you know, any.
• 19:42
  Pete: Like, if I go to Germany, I don't have to dress in lederhosen.
• 19:44
  Amanda: Yeah, right. Like, but it's like being respectful and fitting in to an extent, so you don't kind of stick out like a sore thumb. Do you feel, though, that, like, in America it's a little different? Because I feel like we have melting pot who want to stand out. They want to go against the grain. They don't necessarily want to fit into that mold, per se.
• 20:04
  Rod Alan Baker: I don't know.
• 20:05
  Amanda: I just want to fascinate, especially in
• 20:06
  Pete: Orange county, because there's less. There's less history here.
• 20:09
  Rod Alan Baker: You know, I'll make a comment regarding the whole Europe thing, and you guys will probably answer me really quickly. How do the French treat Americans so wonderfully?
• 20:19
  Amanda: What are you talking about?
• 20:20
  Pete: Right. Wonderfully.
• 20:20
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, when you're over in France.
• 20:22
  Amanda: No, they hate us.
• 20:23
  Rod Alan Baker: Exactly.
• 20:23
  Pete: In particular, they don't particularly enjoy our company.
• 20:26
  Rod Alan Baker: Do you want to look like a tourist?
• 20:28
  Pete: I want to fit in.
• 20:29
  Amanda: Right. 100%.
• 20:30
  Rod Alan Baker: You're going to be treated better.
• 20:31
  Pete: Correct.
• 20:31
  Rod Alan Baker: Instead of just like.
• 20:33
  Pete: Right. But, yeah. Your point. Right.
• 20:35
  Amanda: Like here. Yeah. Is how do you then style people? I guess.
• 20:41
  Pete: How do you style people for America?
• 20:42
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, again, actually, Orange county is a
• 20:45
  Amanda: melting pot of a lot of different socioeconomic statuses. We have our cultural differences.
• 20:50
  Rod Alan Baker: It really depends on. I go back to what is it that you want to communicate? There are people that I know that have immigrated here or have gotten their residency here in Orange county, and they want to fit in. So if they came from the east coast, which is definitely a little bit more dressy, they're probably going to dress down. And sometimes what happens is they go to the extreme. They look like a bunch of surfer dudes.
• 21:15
  Amanda: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Rod Alan Baker: You know, even a CEO.
• 21:17
  Pete: Sorry to interrupt. Did you help me figure out what I wanted to communicate? Yes, you did. Okay. Because I could.
• 21:23
  Amanda: Like Peter, what do you want to
• 21:24
  Pete: communicate well, that's my point is like, he may have learned a lot about what I was looking for. I mean, I didn't give him specific styles. I didn't give you.
• 21:31
  Amanda: You don't even know your own vibe.
• 21:32
  Pete: That's my point. So he figured out some stuff and, and sort of helped me go from there. And then I sort of liked it. And then it was like, okay, here we are.
• 21:39
  Amanda: This is. Was Rod the one who picked out your kind of knit shirt?
• 21:42
  Pete: Rod picked it all out.
• 21:43
  Amanda: Okay. Yeah. So it's definitely a different look than he previous to Rod had. And I know like you pick certain things because of where he was going, but I guess.
• 21:54
  Pete: But it's also super versatile.
• 21:55
  Amanda: If you were to like wrap Pete in a little bow.
• 21:57
  Pete: Yeah, wrap me in a bow.
• 21:58
  Amanda: Clothing.
• 21:59
  Pete: What do we got? What's, what's, what's going on?
• 22:00
  Amanda: Preferences, styles, or what you were looking for for him besides Grease?
• 22:04
  Rod Alan Baker: Again, I blended it in. That's the wardrobe designer aspect of me. Is that. So how can I build something for a trip, but also something that can work into his lifestyle every day? The one thing I've Learned in the 40 plus years of doing this is one of the most difficult times in people's day, every day is at 6 o' clock in the morning when they go into their closet. And that name of my second book was what in the World Am I Going to wear? Because 8 billion people ask that every day.
• 22:33
  Pete: You know, he came to my closet, he looked in my closet.
• 22:35
  Amanda: Oh, dang.
• 22:36
  Pete: And he told me what shit to throw away. And I was very upset at him. He's like outdated, old, ugly. I was like, oh, shit. Like, I mean, he just went right through in like 30 seconds.
• 22:44
  Amanda: I mean, I literally just needed like.
• 22:45
  Pete: And I was like, I was like, kill me. Kill me. Okay, okay, I gotta, I gotta shift gears because I want to hear about this whole. Extraordinarily you. This whole concept.
• 22:55
  Rod Alan Baker: What I did is I just went through four.
• 22:58
  Pete: Oh, that is the concept of extraordinary. Oh, okay. Got it. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But that was. Which book?
• 23:02
  Rod Alan Baker: Wasn't even know it.
• 23:06
  Pete: No, I know. Of course I didn't know it. And I paid you a shitload of money for you to dress me up, teed me up.
• 23:13
  Rod Alan Baker: You know, the last part of the concept is the resources available. Okay. So if you told me that I've got 200 bucks, Rod, it doesn't mean I can't dress you. I'm gonna take you to Ross Dress for less or I'm going to literally I have college students that come to me that are graduating, and they're like, I want to go get a job, and I'm going to go get a job in finance. What do you think I'm going to dress them in if they're going to finance? Different than if they're going to go to a construction site or they're going to go to an IT company, or if they're going to an insurance company, or if they're going to be an assistant.
• 23:47
  Pete: What if they're working online?
• 23:49
  Rod Alan Baker: If.
• 23:50
  Pete: What if it's mobile?
• 23:51
  Rod Alan Baker: It's a whole nother thing. And, you know, before COVID that wasn't even something that people really did. Zoom calls. We talked about your husband being on a Zoom call today. I mean, all of during COVID court was done.
• 24:04
  Amanda: I mean, it's still a lot of still on Zoom.
• 24:06
  Pete: So. So Covid shifted this landscape tremendously.
• 24:10
  Rod Alan Baker: Oh, my God.
• 24:11
  Pete: Well, how do you deal with that shit?
• 24:12
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, it. It, you know, the background is a really important thing. Distractions, noise. I mean, I was doing consulting for companies. I know this sounds crazy. I was consulting companies on what their employees should be wearing on a Zoom.
• 24:27
  Pete: Holy shit. Yeah, you're legit, dude.
• 24:30
  Rod Alan Baker: Because, you know, they would show up in a T shirt that made them look like they just mowed the grass. And you're like, are you working? You know, when there was a problem, they wondered if people were working because they were on a Zoom call and they were home.
• 24:44
  Amanda: But do you think, like, they got that inspiration from, like, some Steve Jobs and, you know, Zuckerberg and, like, all of these tech guys, tech bros who that dress like shit, that is their attire. Well, because I guess it's maybe also then a cultural shift, right? Of what. What is presentable? I guess we could say, well, do
• 25:00
  Rod Alan Baker: you remember in the 90s, these young tech guys, what do they call them, dot com. Commerce.
• 25:07
  Pete: Yeah.
• 25:08
  Rod Alan Baker: And these guys were making billions. They were driving around in Ferraris and board shorts and T shirts that had holes in them.
• 25:14
  Pete: But, like. But, like, what do you say about that? Cool. But what? So. So I think it Zuckerberg, who wore the T shirt forever, and then, you know, now he adds the gold chain or whatever it is. I don't know because I don't follow it so much. But like. Yeah, Is that okay because he's picked a style or are you like, no, you're against that whole thing, his personality.
• 25:30
  Rod Alan Baker: What he was trying to communicate is he was trying to be a revolutionary. And. And that. That whole culture there was literally Changing the way the world dressed. Okay, but that was a trend. That was an American trend, and it did seep in throughout the rest of the world.
• 25:48
  Pete: So that was intent. That was purely intentional.
• 25:49
  Rod Alan Baker: And I think you're going to see, because Covid did that, it changed the way people dress overall. You know, even country clubs that used to require jackets don't require jackets.
• 26:01
  Pete: Okay, but my question is, do you like that better? Do you not like that better? Or is it because it's a generation thing and you're looking at it through a different lens? So talk to me. Talk me through that.
• 26:10
  Rod Alan Baker: To me, it could be communicated as if you're in the wrong groups and in the wrong settings. It could communicate disrespect. Those are gonna communicate whether you think they do or not. I've met so many people.
• 26:23
  Pete: But that doesn't necessarily mean you're not judging that those. I don't wanna be around those people. You're just recognizing they don't give two shits. They're in the wrong room or in the wrong space and they're being disrespectful or whatever it is. But ultimately, in another context, they might be wonderful.
• 26:39
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah.
• 26:39
  Pete: Like, you know what?
• 26:40
  Rod Alan Baker: Those. Those people. There are people. Okay, ready for this? There are people that don't understand.
• 26:47
  Pete: Well, that's what I feel like. That's where I feel like I'm stuck.
• 26:48
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah. And. And by the way, that's the reason.
• 26:51
  Pete: That's why I need to read the book. Okay, got it. I'll read the damn book.
• 26:54
  Rod Alan Baker: Or my book series. Because it's all about helping people. Like, if I were to spend time with you in your closet, I'm basically trying to help you to communicate exactly what you want to communicate. Whether that's I don't give a care or I really do care. You know, people go and they work out. You ride a bike and I do.
• 27:17
  Pete: I do a lot. I run.
• 27:18
  Rod Alan Baker: I do all the things for you to not. So you're doing a whole bunch that has to do with your physical. Yeah, but then you're dressing it, dude.
• 27:25
  Pete: Because I want to look good. It's more important I look good naked, bro. What are you talking about?
• 27:29
  Rod Alan Baker: Oh, that's a whole nother. I mean, I'm such a whole nother wing.
• 27:33
  Pete: There's a lot to unpack there.
• 27:34
  Rod Alan Baker: It's gonna be a whole nother book.
• 27:36
  Pete: How to look good naked. All right, got it. Okay, wait, so give me the hack. Like, I get it. We want the listeners to read the book. Fine. Is there a Step by step. Is there, like, a quick process, Pete? You have to do these three things. You have to go home and think about this first and this second and this third. And that way you understand sort of your intentionality. And then you could start to work on clothes. Give me the quick hack for everybody.
• 27:56
  Rod Alan Baker: First of all, you need to build a wardrobe that. Based on your passions, your personality type, your group, the groups and settings that you find yourself in that also fits your resources that are available. Once you do that, then.
• 28:14
  Pete: So, sorry, take me through that real quick. So my passion is running. I love running. Right. My passion, my kids. Sure. I enjoy traveling. I'm semi retired. I mean, I don't know if those are all passions, but those are like, those are things that help me in
• 28:28
  Amanda: the season of life.
• 28:28
  Pete: Right? Yeah. Thank you. So I have to consider that first. Then I have to consider your personality. My personality, okay. Kind of. Kind of bold. I want to be the guy that, you know, people are looking at in the room. I want to be the life of the party. That's sort of who I try to be, whether I'm good at it or not. And then it's resources, It's. Holy shit.
• 28:47
  Rod Alan Baker: No, it's groups.
• 28:48
  Pete: How much money? Oh, it's groups. What? Groups I hang out with.
• 28:50
  Rod Alan Baker: And then it's the settings. Are you meeting Starbucks? You going to New York? You going to Paris?
• 28:55
  Pete: Right. Okay, got it. So I'm generally a local guy. Every once in a while I go out, but, like, for the most part, I get it. So I'm mostly an Orange county vibe, chill kind of guy.
• 29:03
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Pete: And then. And then I look at my bank
• 29:05
  Rod Alan Baker: account, and then you look at your bank account.
• 29:07
  Pete: Okay.
• 29:07
  Rod Alan Baker: But so when I get up every morning, I look at my day and I look to see who am I seeing today?
• 29:13
  Pete: Yeah.
• 29:14
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. Which I think 8 billion people do, you know, if they're just going to the office and they're not seeing anybody, but they're going to be with the people. But maybe they want to be in that position. I want that corner office or whatever. Okay. So they're getting up and they're. They're looking at their day.
• 29:30
  Pete: So you talk about business a lot. Are you mostly driven towards that concept or. No, you're 50. 50. It's just whoever comes you, comes to you. It doesn't matter.
• 29:39
  Rod Alan Baker: I get it. Like, I'm going to shop for a guy that's 70 years old, he's retired.
• 29:43
  Pete: Okay.
• 29:44
  Rod Alan Baker: And you know what? He's like, I want a new look. I'm starting A new life.
• 29:48
  Amanda: All right.
• 29:49
  Rod Alan Baker: And so that told me a lot about what he was looking for. Now when I sat down with him like I did you, I'm going to find out about his groups and settings. I'm going to find out what his personality is all about.
• 30:00
  Pete: Yeah. I still don't know how you do what you do, because I'm insane, and I'm just one of 100 clients. Whatever it is, I don't get how you do your job. I would kill myself. I couldn't do.
• 30:09
  Rod Alan Baker: Is something that I guess I naturally do in building a relationship with somebody. It was just a process of me just going through this. And with the help of my co author, Rick Wagner, he helped get it out of my head of exactly what I do, because I did it for him back in the 90s, and I did it with him. And he was like. He goes, if you want to truly help more people than who your clientele is, Rod, we need to get that into a book.
• 30:36
  Pete: Did you ever address any, like, famous people?
• 30:38
  Amanda: Yeah.
• 30:39
  Pete: Really? Are you allowed to talk about it?
• 30:40
  Rod Alan Baker: Many. Wait, can you talk about ESPN for 35 years?
• 30:44
  Pete: What?
• 30:44
  Rod Alan Baker: And I had an opportunity.
• 30:45
  Pete: Why didn't you tell me that? To start.
• 30:47
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, that's a whole nother show. Anyway, I got a chance to work with some of the top athletes in the world. There was a show called Up Close.
• 30:54
  Pete: No.
• 30:55
  Rod Alan Baker: Do you remember that?
• 30:55
  Pete: Yes.
• 30:56
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. It was Roy Firestone, Chris Myers, Gary, those guys. I dressed on the show.
• 31:01
  Pete: Okay.
• 31:02
  Rod Alan Baker: And then I had an opportunity to. To work with every guest that they worked with.
• 31:07
  Amanda: Wow.
• 31:08
  Pete: All right, all right. So you're like a big wig. Like, you know, like, you know, people. Wow. Well, thanks for taking me on as a client then.
• 31:13
  Rod Alan Baker: At least it was. It was a step down, but it was okay.
• 31:17
  Pete: Yeah. Thank you. Do you know. You know, Amanda made fun of you on one of these shows when I. I gave you once, I said something about a stylist. Amanda was like, you have a stylist? Oh, my God. Totally judged me. Go back and check tape. Judged the shit out of me. You did. And here he is.
• 31:31
  Amanda: I think I judged you more on the fact, and I guess I'll say it, Umbrella of Grace. I think he was at that point concerned with how he was presenting. So everything that you were saying, that's what he was concerned with. So going to Greece. But now I understand, like, from the psychology perspective of it, why it was important.
• 31:52
  Pete: Is it we won her over. This is what I do. This is what I try to do on the show. One of Us tries to learn something new. She learned something new. There you go.
• 31:58
  Amanda: I mean, it's there, right? Like it's always there. I mean, again, that's why in certain situations I will dress appropriately or whatever it's called. Like if I was going to the winery, you know, I would not just dress in my jeans or, you know, whatever.
• 32:10
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, there's a combination. Sometimes it's for the group and setting so you fit in and all that. Yeah. But sometimes it's for you to make you feel like, you know, I've worked my butt off and to go to a restaurant like this and to just be able to enjoy, you know, the ambiance and the view and the food and you know what? So all of a sudden your clothes become a lot more of a part of that. Because those are memories.
• 32:37
  Amanda: Well, and I think there is something to be said that when you are dressed well and you feel well, it does change how you present yourself and how you act. I mean like there's a whole, there's psychology. I know just in everyday, just dressing period. And I don't know if it's a generational thing. Like I know being 40, it's like, oh, I get why there's midlife crisis is because I can go spend my money and buy stupid shit now, right. And not have to worry about it. And so I think maybe part of that. And we're talking middle class, right? Thoughts versus obviously socioeconomic changes. But I think it'd be interesting as people mature and like, I know now I'm more concerned, right? I'm like, oh, I probably should get rid of that. I've had that for 20 years, whatever. Right.
• 33:17
  Pete: I notice that all the time.
• 33:18
  Amanda: I know it's fine, but how you will start to, I think refine maybe your style or how you present or you take more consideration like you did going on your vacation.
• 33:30
  Pete: Thank you.
• 33:31
  Amanda: On like what you're gonna wear.
• 33:32
  Pete: I wanted to fit in, so people from Greece did not make fun of me.
• 33:35
  Rod Alan Baker: But if you had wanted to find a date.
• 33:37
  Pete: Oh yeah, that did. Yeah. If that was the goal, I struck out. Dude, you blew it. That did not work, brother.
• 33:43
  Amanda: He didn't say he could fix your personality. He just said you're clothes because of those shorts.
• 33:47
  Pete: Okay, wait, so wait, I have, I have two quick questions. Okay, first question. These apps, have you noticed a change in how you have to dress people because of those apps or. Not necessarily.
• 33:58
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah, actually I have found that I dress people more because now they're more out there.
• 34:06
  Pete: Okay, so you're the opposite problem of AI. AI is not taking your job.
• 34:10
  Rod Alan Baker: No.
• 34:10
  Pete: You got this. Okay, my next question is. This is the ultimate question. Should Amanda burn her overalls? Yes or no? Is there a place for overalls in Amanda's wardrobe?
• 34:22
  Rod Alan Baker: There's a setting.
• 34:23
  Pete: There is, yes. @farmersonly.com.
• 34:26
  Rod Alan Baker: there's a setting.
• 34:28
  Pete: She can wear those in Yellowstone. Okay, got it. There's grips.
• 34:30
  Rod Alan Baker: She can wear those.
• 34:31
  Amanda: When I am with my mom, friends, whatever, or on this podcast.
• 34:33
  Pete: Oh, my God.
• 34:34
  Amanda: No, thank you.
• 34:35
  Rod Alan Baker: See?
• 34:36
  Pete: Fine.
• 34:37
  Amanda: Well, and I think there's still some creative leeway, right? Like having been an art major, a math major. Right. Like, there is some expression of yourself,
• 34:46
  Rod Alan Baker: part of your personality that.
• 34:47
  Amanda: Yeah. I mean, don't, like, give people the vibe that you don't care, but you want to wear something a little eccentric sometimes.
• 34:53
  Rod Alan Baker: And if you're going to Texas, you're going to the south, and you're going to a little bit more of rural communities. If you don't wear overalls, you may be the only one.
• 35:03
  Pete: Yeah, no, I understand, but I'm not gonna.
• 35:05
  Rod Alan Baker: Kansas kid.
• 35:06
  Pete: I'm not going there.
• 35:06
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. Got.
• 35:07
  Pete: Okay.
• 35:07
  Rod Alan Baker: Okay. So when I go back, no shame, Kansas. And I'm dressed like this.
• 35:11
  Amanda: They're like, who's this man?
• 35:13
  Rod Alan Baker: They think I'm the irs.
• 35:14
  Pete: Yeah. Well. All right. So, Rod, anything else you want to chat about, or did we cover it all and you want to close?
• 35:18
  Rod Alan Baker: You know what? I think we covered it all right. Not all.
• 35:20
  Pete: Well, not right.
• 35:21
  Rod Alan Baker: I'm probably gonna have to have a
• 35:22
  Pete: couple, two, or three more episodes here, right? I mean, I. Whatever. I'm inviting myself into your house.
• 35:28
  Rod Alan Baker: Right?
• 35:28
  Pete: Let's go. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. All right, well, tell us where we can find you. Give us the whole thing.
• 35:34
  Rod Alan Baker: She's the balance. Here.
• 35:35
  Pete: She is. Trust me. Well, this was easy. This was easy because you took over the show. Normally, she has to deal with all this shit. It's a mess.
• 35:42
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah.
• 35:42
  Pete: It's an absolute mess.
• 35:43
  Rod Alan Baker: I don't even know.
• 35:44
  Pete: Plug yourself. Give us. Give us where we can meet you, where we can find you.
• 35:47
  Rod Alan Baker: So the name of my third book is your clothing speaks long before you. Because it does. And I'm gonna leave you with this one thing, and it's a phrase that I tag, and I actually sign the phrase that pays.
• 35:57
  Pete: Okay.
• 35:57
  Rod Alan Baker: I sign all my books. When I sign a book, you never know when you're gonna meet that one person who could change your life forever. Could be today. So always be extraordinarily you.
• 36:08
  Pete: I like that.
• 36:10
  Amanda: That's a lot of writing.
• 36:11
  Pete: That is good.
• 36:12
  Amanda: Every book.
• 36:12
  Pete: I like that.
• 36:13
  Amanda: Wow.
• 36:14
  Pete: All right. You got a website?
• 36:15
  Rod Alan Baker: I have a website.
• 36:16
  Pete: Give it to me.
• 36:16
  Rod Alan Baker: Rod-allen.com. my email is rodrod-allen.com. you can find me at South Coast Plaza almost seven days a week.
• 36:24
  Pete: You have socials. We can find you on socials.
• 36:26
  Rod Alan Baker: Yep. It's Rod. Underscore Allen. Underscore Baker.
• 36:29
  Pete: I love it.
• 36:29
  Rod Alan Baker: And we also have extraordinarily you dot com.
• 36:33
  Pete: I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, Rod Allen Baker. Go find him. Get the book. Do everything.
• 36:37
  Amanda: Love it. Okay. Yes. Buy the book. I think we should all start there. Do we need to start at number one or can we start number three?
• 36:43
  Rod Alan Baker: Number three.
• 36:44
  Amanda: You just start number three. Okay.
• 36:45
  Rod Alan Baker: Start with number three.
• 36:46
  Amanda: Okay. So my challenge before we wrap up fully.
• 36:48
  Pete: Oh, yeah, shit. The challenge. Let's go.
• 36:50
  Amanda: I mean, I know we talk about south coast, and, you know, there is, I'm sure, a different hierarchy. Yes. Of your clientele. My challenge would be for you is like, even for moms, because, like, we talked a lot about being a professional, and a lot of moms, their profession is being a stay at home mom. Right. Which in and of itself, I think is a very, you know, worthy job.
• 37:10
  Rod Alan Baker: Very much.
• 37:11
  Amanda: And so if you created like a quick mom's guide to refreshing wardrobes per season, I mean, it's simple for you, I'm sure. But I don't know, I feel like that's just like maybe that's a niche. Yeah. Your free advice or like your pro bono work you could give out there in the world.
• 37:28
  Rod Alan Baker: I always tell people, never forget who you are. And I think that what my book does and maybe what I do when I'm working with somebody is I help them to really find themselves. And a lot of times what happens with kids in the house and bills and all those things, we kind of forget that we take a second seat. Whether it's to be a stay home mom or to be responsible for the family, more than anything, I think is to make their life easy and to make them feel good about themselves with whatever it is that they wear, whether it's activewear, dressing up for a restaurant or for church or for wherever they're going socially, that they feel good. And by the way, I dress a lot of soccer moms, I dress a lot of stay home moms, and I love that because, you know, this is what I find. They want to feel beautiful.
• 38:22
  Pete: Right.
• 38:22
  Rod Alan Baker: And so I just try to make sure that they have a Wardrobe that when they go into their closet, it's easy, but it also helps them to feel good about themselves. If that makes. Does that help?
• 38:34
  Amanda: Yeah, I love it. I'm here for it. All right. So, Rod, so really, I don't really think it's about clothes. I mean, I think you've done a good job selling me on the fact that it's all about psychology. It's all about how clothes kind of make you feel what you're putting out into the world. And so really, it's just like a mechanism for our purpose of the day.
• 38:50
  Rod Alan Baker: Correct.
• 38:50
  Amanda: About. Okay. Yeah. So I think it's much more. Maybe even about, like, our human desire to be seen and, like, not notice. But just from what you've told us, I think it's. We're trying to get someone to understand us at our core. Maybe it's, like, deeper than just, oh, this is Rod. Right. But it's. You're leading into who you are. Like, you're becoming more complex. Right. You're being authentic, but it's using another type of language. Right. So instead of just being verbally about yourself, you are presenting yourself in an intentional way visually.
• 39:24
  Pete: Do you ever say that? Do you ever say clothing is a language?
• 39:27
  Rod Alan Baker: Absolutely.
• 39:27
  Pete: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes. I like the way she just said that. That was good.
• 39:30
  Amanda: But anyway, so it's about knowing yourself first, I think is kind of where. And then finding a you to help. Like, you. You get to step into their shoes and then putting your expertise on it. Right. Yeah. Okay. It's fascinating to me because I think we are bombarded by social media 24 7. And so I think a lot of times it is what is trending, but sometimes what is trending isn't you. And now you're. And it's like that fast market or fast clothing.
• 39:54
  Rod Alan Baker: Right. Fashion.
• 39:55
  Amanda: Fast fashion. There you go.
• 39:56
  Rod Alan Baker: Yes.
• 39:56
  Amanda: Close. So close. But that people see it like, oh, that's what I want. And I think that's kind of what, like, the mom question of, you'll see it on target or you'll see some influencer posting.
• 40:06
  Pete: Oh, I see. It doesn't really. Yeah.
• 40:08
  Amanda: Your authentic self, it may not be what you like, but now you're just kind of stepping into that.
• 40:12
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah. And you know what? Certain personalities care about that more than others.
• 40:15
  Amanda: Yeah.
• 40:16
  Rod Alan Baker: And that personality you're talking about, because they're always on Instagram and they're, you know, and they want to be noticed. They want to. Sometimes they want to look like they're a lot more successful than they really Are like.
• 40:28
  Pete: They're sort of sophisticated. I hear you.
• 40:30
  Rod Alan Baker: And so that fast fashion, they want to be current. And that sanguine personality that I described to you a little bit ago, I think I'm. Sanguine personality that cares about that. There's also personalities that fear that of what people are judging.
• 40:46
  Pete: Oh, I think I'm that one too. I have so many personalities.
• 40:49
  Rod Alan Baker: Well, they call that skits.
• 40:52
  Amanda: That calls that personality disorder.
• 40:54
  Rod Alan Baker: That should be the word. Or the next one.
• 40:56
  Pete: Okay. Yeah. Are we almost done here?
• 40:58
  Amanda: Yeah. Good.
• 41:00
  Pete: I mean, you guys are just literally at this point, you guys are just chatting to chat.
• 41:02
  Amanda: She's just upset.
• 41:03
  Rod Alan Baker: You know what?
• 41:04
  Pete: We have a flow to the show.
• 41:05
  Rod Alan Baker: She hadn't said much, so I'm, like, having her catch up.
• 41:08
  Pete: Sometimes she just eats the microphone. Okay, we ready for fun facts?
• 41:10
  Rod Alan Baker: Just because you're the one talking.
• 41:12
  Amanda: Yes. Go for fun facts.
• 41:13
  Pete: Okay. All right, fun facts. Here we go. Number one, the red dress effect. Do we know the red dress effect? Okay, here we are. Multiple studies found that women wearing red are rated significantly more attractive and of higher status than women wearing other colors. Researchers found it shows up across all cultures, which suggest it's biological, not just a learned thing. How do you like that? Is that true?
• 41:35
  Rod Alan Baker: Yeah.
• 41:35
  Pete: Okay, there we go.
• 41:36
  Rod Alan Baker: That's very true.
• 41:36
  Pete: Okay, number two.
• 41:37
  Amanda: I hate red.
• 41:38
  Pete: Whatever. Can I move on to number two? In a 2010 Italian study. Italian study, researchers sent canvassers door to door to collect survey responses across various topics. But that wasn't the experiment. The experiment was that when the canvassers who knocked on the doors wore real luxury brand logos like Gucci or Versace or whatever, people engaged them 50% more and stayed and answered the survey questions. When they didn't have branding on them or wore obvious counterfeit versions of the exact same logos, doors were closed in their faces, which means people are reading branding signals at a level they don't even consciously know they're reading. How do you like that? That's a real Italian study in 2010.
• 42:18
  Amanda: But is that because they're Italians? Because brands in Italy like, I don't know, brands and Italians kind of go hand in hand.
• 42:24
  Rod Alan Baker: I think it is.
• 42:25
  Pete: Okay, I'm going. I like doing.
• 42:26
  Amanda: It's an American thing.
• 42:27
  Rod Alan Baker: It's not an American thing.
• 42:28
  Pete: Okay. I didn't say it was an American thing.
• 42:30
  Amanda: We don't value quality as a.
• 42:31
  Pete: These are fun facts. Okay, maybe you guys don't like my fun facts today. Number three, A study published in Social Psychological and Personality Science. I don't know what Is that a journal found that people wearing formal clothing, even when nobody required it, perform significantly better on abstract, big picture thinking tasks, while casual dress produced more concrete, detailed, level thinking. So the comfort clothes might literally be changing the scale of your thoughts. Make of that what you will.
• 43:00
  Rod Alan Baker: Corporate America, right?
• 43:02
  Pete: Apparently, you're a big picture thinker, and I'm not.
• 43:04
  Rod Alan Baker: Today in corporate America, that's something that I preach to CEOs right now.
• 43:09
  Pete: Okay, There, I nailed one fun fact. So far, I'm one out of three. All right, Number four. Research on military personnel found that simply putting on a uniform increased aggressive behavior and willingness to follow orders completely independent of the individual's actual personality. The uniform wasn't expressing identity. It was creating it. The clothes started running the person, not the other way around. I thought that was wild. And finally, this one's gonna. This is my best fun fact. Okay. I always save the best fun fact for last. Queen Elizabeth ii, the one who just passed. Right. Reportedly had a rule that her public appearance outfits had to be bright enough to be spotted in a crowd from a hundred yards away. She called it her visibility uniform. Her logic was pretty basic. People come from all over the world just to catch a glimpse of her, so they needed to be able to actually see her. She spent 70 years engineering exactly what her clothes said before she ever said a word. Turns out the Queen and Rod had the same exact idea. That's all I got. Fun facts out.
• 44:08
  Amanda: I mean, really, this whole episode should have changed everyone's philosophy on how they dress, because it's not just about what you're wearing or who you're wearing. It's really the psychology of what you're wearing. Exactly. So I am here for it. We're gonna one day redo my whole closet. Let's do it, Rod. I got you. Rod's new newest challenge will be on a small budget. Tight budget, tight budget. Here we go. So if anyone listening feels the same way right now and they actually want to do this, how do they go deeper? What should they do? Obviously, buy the book.
• 44:39
  Pete: Yep.
• 44:39
  Amanda: Start there. Hire Rod.
• 44:41
  Pete: All the things. First of all, DM us on Instagram. If you want the fun facts or you want the episode summary, we'll send it to your inbox immediately. Thank you for supporting the show. We appreciate it. Yes, obviously. Read all Rod's books. They're awesome. Find them all on Amazon. Yes. Or if you're in Orange county, please go work with him. He is an absolute pleasure to work with. He's super fun, easy to work with. Trust me.
• 45:00
  Rod Alan Baker: And I take care of people all over the country.
• 45:01
  Pete: All over the country, yes. Thank you very much. Second one is an older read, but it still holds up. Read something called Dress for Success by John t. Molloy from 1975. It's a book that actually launched this entire conversation. Some of it's dated, but the court argument that dress affects outcomes in ways that people hate to admit, he proved with real research. Rod just explains it way better and has way more personality than John T. Molloy did. But anyway, thank you. Those are sort of the two takeaways.
• 45:29
  Amanda: All right. And if you're not in the mood to read, just remember maybe these few details to seem sort of sophisticated. Hit it. So, number one, clothing as communication goes back 75,000 years. So the Romans used it with their color stripes on their togas, kind of to represent social rank, I think, is what you said.
• 45:43
  Pete: Yep.
• 45:43
  Amanda: Napoleon Hill wrote a whole essay in 1920 about the psychology of dressing. Well, so it's not really a modern conversation that we're having. It's a very old instinctual, probably timeless. Yeah, timeless, Perfect. I love it. Number two, enclosed cognition. I'm pretty sure that that is the scientific term for what Rod has been practicing for the last 40 years. So what you wear changes not only how others see you, but how you think about yourself and how you actually perform. And I know you gave some fun facts about that. Number three, the extraordinarily you concept starts on the inside, so you have to know who you are before you can dress like it. Most people skip the self knowledge step entirely and just go straight to the store or their Instagram reels and just kind of pick out an outfit or clothing. And sometimes it just never feels just right. But that's because it's not technically fitting your personality, right?
• 46:32
  Rod Alan Baker: Correct. They're dressing. They're dressing from the outside in.
• 46:35
  Amanda: Yeah, there you go. So start from the inside out. Number four, not caring about clothes is still a choice, and it still sends a signal whether you like it or not. So could be good, could be bad, but you don't get a pass just because you didn't think about it. Because I guess you did think about not thinking about it.
• 46:52
  Pete: Yeah, that's right.
• 46:54
  Amanda: And number five, the pandemic kind of broke something in how people dress professionally. But Rod has argued that the cost is real and most people haven't reckoned with it yet. It's coming. And finally, your clothes are saying something about you right now. So think about what you're wearing, because the question that you have to answer is whether you decided to write that message on purpose or you didn't.
• 47:13
  Pete: Good summary. I like that. There you have it. Dear listeners, we started with a simple question. What do your clothes say before you open your mouth? And ended with make sure the version of yourself you choose to put out in the world every single day is actually you. Rod has spent 40 years helping people close that gap. The new book is the most complete version of that conversation he has ever put on paper. Go find it. Go find him. You've been warned, as always. If you like what you heard today, hit subscribe, leave a review, and share it with somebody who could really use this conversation. Just figure out a way to tell them politely, please. Until next time, stay curious. Stay well dressed because the room is always listening, even when nobody is talking.