Latest / Substack Writers Salon / What I Learned From a Digital Products Expert Who Makes 90% of His Income on Gumroad

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What I Learned From a Digital Products Expert Who Makes 90% of His Income on Gumroad · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we are live.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: We are live.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
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  SPEAKER_01: All right.
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  So today I have with me the legend who is a legend in creating
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  digital products.
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  SPEAKER_01: He is based in Singapore.
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  SPEAKER_01: The creator, Anfernee, who empowers
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  SPEAKER_01: solopreneurs to achieve true freedom by providing them with the tools,
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  SPEAKER_01: strategies,
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  SPEAKER_01: and support they need to succeed.
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  SPEAKER_01: First, Anferi, thank you so much for accepting my invitation.
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  I know you're a very busy man and you're actually killing it
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  when it comes to the
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  SPEAKER_01: solopreneur game,
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  SPEAKER_01: if I want to call it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, Anthony, it is 9 p.m.
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  SPEAKER_01: here in the East Coast of the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_01: and you are now in Singapore.
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  And I love this global world we live in where we can all
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  benefit from each other.
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  And I would like for me is I have been astounded by your
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  success when it comes to
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  SPEAKER_01: creating digital products.
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  SPEAKER_01: I've been following your work and you've been writing a lot about it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I think my first question is,
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  what kind of digital products are you creating and why are they
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  so successful?
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  Maybe I should just start off with,
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  I don't start off with successful immediately.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: Take us through the journey from the struggle and the success.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: so just like any other entrepreneurs or digital creators out there,
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  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what to create when I started.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay, those who tell you they know what to do, they are bluffing you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Nobody knows what to do when they first started.
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  Okay,
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  so when I first started,
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  my first product I remember is just a prompt pack.
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  SPEAKER_00: And back then, when I first started in 2023, AI was just starting.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I happened to be some of the very,
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  SPEAKER_00: very first people to play with AI,
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  SPEAKER_00: particularly chat UPD.
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  SPEAKER_00: There isn't even publicity and cloud back then.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I created e-book, I created a prompt pack, and then I shared it.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's a free lead magnet.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then it turns out that people like it.
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  SPEAKER_00: What was the first product?
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  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I didn't get that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Was it template?
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  SPEAKER_00: AI prompting e-book.
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  SPEAKER_01: AI prompting e-book, okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also prompt pack.
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  SPEAKER_00: Prompt what?
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  SPEAKER_00: Sorry?
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  SPEAKER_00: Prompt pack.
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  SPEAKER_00: The package of template prompts that people can use.
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  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a prompt package.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: So now it's very common, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: But back then it was something revolutionary.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: just two years ago.
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  So,
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  and then I wasn't,
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  I was still trying to figure out how to make money,
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  stuff like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then one day,
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  SPEAKER_00: someone just,
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  SPEAKER_00: because I do it over Gun Road,
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  SPEAKER_00: so under Gun Road,
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  there's a donation feature that people can freely put in how
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  much they want to give
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  SPEAKER_00: me,
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  SPEAKER_00: even though it's a free product.
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  SPEAKER_00: And someone give me some money.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, you can't actually earn money.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: and when it first started,
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  SPEAKER_00: then I realized that,
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  SPEAKER_00: so this is one of the ways people actually earn money online.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was interesting.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then,
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  SPEAKER_00: since then,
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  SPEAKER_00: like what I wrote inside the blog and I told a lot of other creators,
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  SPEAKER_00: I went into a digital product creating frenzy.
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  SPEAKER_00: I launched one digital product every week.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so every week for one whole year,
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  SPEAKER_00: So I created about 56 digital products.
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  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when I know what works and what doesn't work.
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  Because initially,
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  if you just create one and it doesn't work,
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  and then people just give up.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: For me, I just create.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then when I have 56 digital products,
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  SPEAKER_00: look at it and look at it analytically with an open mind,
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  SPEAKER_00: then you realize what can sell and what doesn't sell.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what does sell?
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  SPEAKER_01: And what does sell?
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: What does sell at that point in time,
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  SPEAKER_00: which was like more than one year ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: was AI prompt packs.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was really selling very well.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to delve in more there.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I created prompt packs for entrepreneurs,
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  SPEAKER_00: prompt packs for business owners,
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  SPEAKER_00: prompt packs for HR managers.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  prompt packs for all the various different...
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  So that's what you call niche now,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_00: So rather than I create one gigantic prompt pack for everybody,
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  I create actually a separate prompt package for different job
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  roles in the market.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: But don't do it now.
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  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't... It's not selling now.
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  SPEAKER_00: Nobody... Because it's everywhere.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right?
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  SPEAKER_00: But as I go along, I get more connected with my customers.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then what I do is I find out from them what they need now.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now that they have the prompt back, what else they need.
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  SPEAKER_01: Huh.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what do they need now?
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  SPEAKER_01: What do they need now?
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  I would say most of them just needed some help in terms of what
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  to create.
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  SPEAKER_00: You'll be surprised that a lot of people have no idea what to create.
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  SPEAKER_00: They have the skill sets,
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  SPEAKER_00: they have the platforms,
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  SPEAKER_00: they have AI to help them,
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  SPEAKER_00: but they just don't know what to create.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I take on some mentoring jobs as well, services.
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  SPEAKER_00: So only for a handful of them.
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  And then I guide them through digital product creation and
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  stuff like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that is when I say,
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  SPEAKER_00: oh,
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  SPEAKER_00: I should do something like...
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  SPEAKER_00: Because back then,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't have an email list.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a database list.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I was thinking, okay, maybe I should start an email list.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I went online and searched.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the first post that I saw was from Maya.
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  SPEAKER_02: Ah, Maya, okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: She wrote, Sobrenners will rule the world.
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  SPEAKER_00: This particular post.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  So I followed her,
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  and then I joined SoftTech,
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  and then I created my publication.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then Veronica came up, David came up.
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  SPEAKER_00: all of them appear in my feed.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: they're the same people and Christina God and a few of them,
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  SPEAKER_00: they're all,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you can recall,
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  SPEAKER_00: about two years ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: they are the anchor tenants of Substack.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I follow them and then,
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  so that's when I started shifting a bit more towards newsletter
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  and community
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  SPEAKER_00: building rather than just selling products.
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  SPEAKER_00: Of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: I still sell products,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I believe that another very important,
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  SPEAKER_00: I would say,
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  SPEAKER_00: outreach is really community building.
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  So that's when I actually started focusing a lot more on the
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  Soropreneur Code.
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  SPEAKER_01: Community building.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  SPEAKER_01: Are you a full solopreneur now?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or do you have other like... I'm a full solopreneur.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm a full solopreneur since August 2023.
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  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
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  SPEAKER_01: So how,
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  SPEAKER_01: if you don't mind me asking,
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  how is your income divided in terms of like what is percentage
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  is the digital
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  SPEAKER_01: products,
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  SPEAKER_01: the like maybe paid newsletter?
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  SPEAKER_01: How is your, like how do you make income as a solopreneur?
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  SPEAKER_00: 90% digital products.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my fake newsletter is earning me peanuts.
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  SPEAKER_01: So 90% are selling products on Gumroad?
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  SPEAKER_01: Is that where it's all coming from?
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yes, correct.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I have a problem and I want you to solve it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: I have one digital product on Gumroad and I have two that are free.
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  SPEAKER_01: Two or three, actually, that I just run them for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And people download here.
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  SPEAKER_01: Occasionally, people buy.
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  SPEAKER_01: But...
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  SPEAKER_01: How do you market them?
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  I mean,
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  how do you...
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  Before,
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  you said you've been selling before having a newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_01: How do you market them?
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  SPEAKER_01: Just using the Gumroad marketplace?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or how do people actually find you and buy this stuff?
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
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  SPEAKER_00: so first of all,
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  SPEAKER_00: we need to solve...
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  SPEAKER_00: The first problem is,
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  SPEAKER_00: are the two free products and the paid products,
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  SPEAKER_00: are they linked?
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  SPEAKER_00: No.
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  SPEAKER_00: In some way?
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  SPEAKER_02: No.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you have a flow problem.
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  SPEAKER_00: Good to know.
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  What do I mean by flow problem is you should always create your
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  free product.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's like if you know Russell Brunson value ladder, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: So you must always design your product in a value ladder, right?
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  So from free as a lead manager and then the next tier of
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  product should be a rather
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  SPEAKER_00: cheap product but it is linked to the paid product.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's do this live.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's see this.
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  SPEAKER_01: It should be fun.
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  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I can guarantee you see tremendous difference after you implement this.
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  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's see.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're going to test it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we have 20 people watching the experiment.
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  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because Jana did it with me.
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  SPEAKER_00: Jana did it with me last year.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's see.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I have a product called How to Make Income from Ghostwriter.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
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  so I personally make most of my income as a solopreneur from
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  ghostwriting and
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  SPEAKER_01: specifically ghostwriting memoirs and newsletters.
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  SPEAKER_02: As a service?
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  SPEAKER_02: As a service, yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's because it's a very high ticket item and you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: people pay like thousands of dollars.
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  Unlike if you sell a digital product for $20,
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  that's basically what pays my bills.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's not sustainable and scalable.
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  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of experience.
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  I have a lot of knowledge because I've been doing it for over
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  four years now.
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  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
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  SPEAKER_01: Plus being a journalist for 25 years.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I have this product.
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  It's called How to Make Income from Ghostwriting,
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  and I'm selling it for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm just putting it there as a leader.
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  SPEAKER_01: And seven people got it for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then...
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  SPEAKER_01: So that is actually one of the best-selling ones.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then I have a short story that I sell for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I used to... Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it sold 15 for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the paid one...
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  SPEAKER_01: And the paid one is The Art of Pitching.
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  SPEAKER_01: So basically,
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  SPEAKER_01: when I pitch to writers,
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  SPEAKER_01: if you pitch,
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  SPEAKER_01: because I pitch to newspapers as well as a journalist,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I sell it for $9.99.
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  And it's,
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  I mean,
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  it's sold,
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  it's not showing me here,
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  but I think it sold like maybe 10 people.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let me see if it showed you how many people bought it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So in total,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I'm being very transparent,
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  I'll tell you how much I made from Gumroad in total because it
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  should show you,
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  SPEAKER_01: right?
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  SPEAKER_01: My total earnings from Gumroad is $138.96.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what shall I do?
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  SPEAKER_01: Since your job is to help entrepreneurs, help me live.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's do this.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so live, I'll give you all the solutions.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So,
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  SPEAKER_00: you need to...
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
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  SPEAKER_00: so the...
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  SPEAKER_00: I have...
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  SPEAKER_00: The most interest...
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  SPEAKER_00: The product that interests me the most is the Ghostwriting Secrets.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  SPEAKER_00: It's up to you, whatever I suggest.
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  SPEAKER_00: You can shift around the product.
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  But then what I think is you could make it a low-priced
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  product,
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  low-value product.
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  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say low-value.
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  Low-value makes your product look like it's of low-value,
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  but it's a low-priced product.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: You can price it as $9, $10, or $20.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: around that range.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now,
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  SPEAKER_00: what you need to do is,
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  SPEAKER_00: okay,
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  SPEAKER_00: the reason why I don't usually put an e-book as a lead magnet is that...
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  SPEAKER_00: Let me give a brief about what's the purpose of Lead Bare Neck?
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  SPEAKER_00: Is it for someone to download?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was in the past actually.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was before Substack.
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  Now for me,
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  Substack is the lead magnet and Notes and Going Live is
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  actually the lead magnet.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think it shifted because things keep shifting.
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  SPEAKER_01: So back in the past,
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  SPEAKER_01: people would say,
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  SPEAKER_01: if you want to grow your newsletter,
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  SPEAKER_01: lead magnet,
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  SPEAKER_01: lead magnet.
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  SPEAKER_01: I personally now starting to believe that lead magnets are dead.
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  SPEAKER_01: And sub-stack notes are the lead magnet.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's how I see it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Let me broaden your mindset a little bit.
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  SPEAKER_00: Substack and Notes is a lead gatherer.
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  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so?
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  Is that what you need to do at a very tactical level is you
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  need to identify of all
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  SPEAKER_00: the hundreds or thousands of people who subscribe to your newsletter,
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  SPEAKER_00: who are the ones who will go deeper into
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  SPEAKER_00: into your funnel and eventually buy something.
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  SPEAKER_00: There will always be a ton of people who follow you,
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  SPEAKER_00: subscribe to you,
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  SPEAKER_00: but never buy anything for the rest of their lives.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what you need to do is you need to be very tactical about this.
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  SPEAKER_00: You need to funnel them into a separate system.
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  SPEAKER_00: What I use here is I use Gumroad as my separate system.
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  SPEAKER_00: You can use Kid or Beehive or any other system, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: But I use Gumroad, right?
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  So again,
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  platform is of no relevance to how effective something works,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Platform is obvious.
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  SPEAKER_00: The method is the most important, right?
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  So what you need to do is you need to create a lead magnet that
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  will make these
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  SPEAKER_00: people go into this specific funnel that will lead them to buy something.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is for you to...
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  SPEAKER_01: I have a course.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I also have a paid course is how to make income from ghostwriting.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I sell this course, it depends if there's sale or not.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I sell it between $50 to $75.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes if there's Black Friday sale, I sell it for $50.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But usually, let's say $50 to $75.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked really hard on this course.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like videos that I recorded and all of that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think I should put that course on Gumroad as well?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should put it everywhere.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and how do I put it?
• 16:36
  But how do you actually funnel them is that you need to have a
• 16:39
  better lead magnet.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do I mean by better lead magnet?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we're going back.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's the purpose of lead magnet?
• 16:45
  It is for someone to download and then gain a certain
• 16:54
  transformation almost immediately.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: when we go back to your book as a lead magnet,
• 17:02
  book is not a good lead magnet because they need to finish the
• 17:06
  book to gain
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: transformation.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Provided they ever finish the book.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, your lead magnet has to be something that the moment they see it,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: the light bulb just turn on and then they immediately feel transformed.
• 17:24
  They don't have to be really transformed,
• 17:26
  but they need to feel that they transformed.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which is why a lot of times a checklist,
• 17:35
  a one-page summary or infographic is a much better lead manner
• 17:39
  than e-book.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So how does this work?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the moment I download a checklist from you,
• 17:49
  the checklist can be one of the things to look out for to
• 17:53
  become a selfish
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: ghostwriter.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the moment I download the link, I look at the checklist.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's my next job?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's my next step?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: My next step is, oh, I need to read out something.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you happen to have to sell a book.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: See, the flow, you have to make the flow to be brainless.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: That means when I download a link in my neck, what is the next step?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the next step cannot be pulled by you.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: The next step has to be felt by the person.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:29
  So I have to feel the need to read out on something and it
• 18:32
  happens that you sell the e-book.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying I should niche down?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: instead of saying how to make income from ghostwriting,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: it should be something even more niche than an e-book?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm saying is the e-book can be, it's not a good lead magnet.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 18:58
  So how do I,
• 19:00
  based on what I told you,
• 19:02
  how should I change from my dashboard on Gumroad?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: What should I do?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you can do a test first, all right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to think of a lead magnet first, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you don't have a good lead magnet yet.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then the good lead magnet in this case,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: from what I suggested,
• 19:25
  will be simply like a checklist on what are the things I need
• 19:30
  to attain to become a
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: good ghostwriter,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: for example.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then there will be the lead magnet.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you will see a whole bunch of downloads.
• 19:44
  And then what you need to do is within Gumroad,
• 19:46
  there's an email workflow system.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: then you need to start thinking about email workflow.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: to guide the person.
• 19:57
  So the first email simply can be,
• 19:59
  hi,
• 19:59
  welcome,
• 20:00
  thanks for downloading my lead magnet.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Tomorrow I'll tell you something that will blow your mind, for example.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is to entice them to look forward to your next email.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So email, not in the newsletter sense, but email marketing sense.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: My email workflow in my gumroad is very extensive.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have 20 email workflows for any product that you download.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they cross-linked like a spider web.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: The moment you download something, you are in my spider web.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the email workflow will flow you to download something else.
• 20:35
  The moment you download something else,
• 20:36
  it flows you to another email workflow.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, they all converge to me selling something to them.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  So what you need to do is you need to create an email workflow
• 20:49
  that leads them to
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: your next product,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: which is your ghostwriting e-book.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or ghostwriting course.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or ghostwriting course.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 20:58
  But you have to map them in a very...
• 21:03
  You have to map them in a very logical manner.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Always ask yourself,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: after I download the Elite Man Act,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: what is the next very obvious move I need to do?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then you sell that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 21:16
  So how many free products do you have on Gumroad and how many
• 21:19
  paid do you have?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think currently my Gumroad, I removed quite a fair bit.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think I only left with 34 products.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe about a handful are paid.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: The rest are about 30 are all free.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so all of this is happening on Gumroad.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not happening on Substack, correct?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Substack is, like what I told you, is a lead gatherer.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I gather leads and then I funnel them into Gumroad.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you move people from Substack to Gumroad?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Get them to download my newsletter.
• 21:59
  So in your newsletter,
• 22:01
  one of your newsletter,
• 22:02
  you talk about ghostwriting.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then you say, oh, by the way, I happen to have a checklist here.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to download it?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then they will download that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So basically,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: you create the lead magnet on Gumroad,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: you put it on Substack,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: they download the free lead magnet on Gumroad,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: and then you move them to a workflow on Gumroad,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: and then from there,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: you can upsell them.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, correct.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what is the percentage?
• 22:33
  Do you think the majority of people come to you from Substack
• 22:37
  or from Gumroad Marketplace?
• 22:42
  currently majority is still Gumroad Marketplace because I just
• 22:47
  started Subsec only
• 22:49
  coming two years so yeah and and we are talking about pure
• 22:57
  number of people lah
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I only have 5,000 subscribers on Substack.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Only 5,000?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as compared to Gumroad, I have 35,000 subscribers.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, wow.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I have to check.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 23:18
  Like one of my products,
• 23:20
  my highest sale product is,
• 23:23
  I think,
• 23:24
  6,800 sales.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then my lead,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Manac,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: the highest downloaded lead,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Manac,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: is about 13,000 or 14,000 or 15,000 downloads.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're basically paying the bills off Gumroad, pretty much.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, yes.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know what?
• 23:48
  You have to create a course,
• 23:50
  or do you have it,
• 23:51
  on how to sell on Gumroad.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because... Oh, no, I...
• 23:57
  I don't like to create causes because I think...
• 23:58
  I did have some online causes before...
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the percentage of people completing a course is about 15%.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever people say, hey, teach me, do you have an online course?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I say, no need.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You just ask me.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I answer you directly, like, what you're doing now.
• 24:19
  So instead of telling you,
• 24:20
  hey,
• 24:20
  Natasha comes from my course,
• 24:22
  you just ask me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you everything.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because...
• 24:27
  Yeah,
• 24:28
  so I think causes is good for the seller,
• 24:33
  but it's not good for the buyer.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see any benefits that my customers get.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what do you upsell them?
• 24:43
  So if the lead magnet was,
• 24:45
  let's say,
• 24:46
  a checklist,
• 24:47
  what would you upsell them?
• 24:50
  Eventually,
• 24:50
  they will always reach because my whole branding is helping
• 24:58
  solopreneurs.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what it actually means is at the end of the day,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I will just sell them my solopreneur success OS.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have this, my flagship product, which is solopreneur success OS.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a course?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a course?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really a course.
• 25:18
  It's basically a combination of templates,
• 25:23
  database,
• 25:24
  AI support,
• 25:27
  and community.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is fascinating, by the way.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everybody thought that I'm selling cost.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a cost.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't sell cost.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: if you follow me long enough,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: anybody ask me anything,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just tell them everything without any hiding.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Zero paywall.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask me anything, I'll tell you just like this.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you the exact value ladder for your product already.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, and this is how you build trust.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And this is how people like you.
• 26:05
  And,
• 26:05
  you know,
• 26:06
  if you believe in karma,
• 26:07
  you give,
• 26:07
  you know,
• 26:07
  you give for free karma.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you want to.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so...
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you help solopreneurs and now I'm going to ask the tough questions,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: by the way,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a journalist by training and by education as well.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why you like to ask a tough question.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so do you think... I have to dig deep, man.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think being a solopreneur...
• 26:35
  is a fad and it will not continue and it's not sustainable and
• 26:42
  that eventually
• 26:43
  everyone who's gonna try it i was like you know what i cannot i
• 26:46
  can't feed my kids
• 26:47
  on this i'm just going back to nine to five or how do you feel
• 26:53
  about people being
• 26:54
  solopreneurs because i've seen solopreneurs quit i've seen them
• 26:57
  go back to nine to
• 26:58
  five so how where do you feel about that since you're helping
• 27:02
  solopreneurs
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: How, let's say, optimistic are you about the future of solopreneurship?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: so if you ask me the same question,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: just five years ago,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say it's impossible to be a solopreneur.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if you ask me now, I'll say it is impossible.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: 10 times easier to be a successful entrepreneur now because you have AI,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: you have technology support and all that,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: But having said so... What did AI do in terms of income?
• 27:42
  I mean,
• 27:43
  AI will make you more productive,
• 27:45
  but how would it make you more financially successful?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Speed.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: One word, speed.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you an example.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just five,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: six years ago,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: if I want to do an email workflow of seven emails,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: welcome,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: transformation,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: education,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: and then up there,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: upselling.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just a simple seven email, it might take me three days or four days to
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: create this email, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But now, you just need AI and a good prompt, okay?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I say good prompt because everybody thought that just need AI,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: but then the person who uses AI must be skilled enough to do so,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a good prompt and a good AI,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: you just need about five minutes to come up with the seven emails.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then, that selling email doesn't help you, but then it helps.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't help you earn money, but it helps because you save time.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the speed is there.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And why is speed important?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's because if you have speed, then you can afford to test out faster.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I suggest you the lead manner just now, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have zero confidence.
• 29:11
  I have 50% confidence that the lead manner will work because I
• 29:14
  don't know.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we ensure that it will work if we just try it out?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So for my case,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: like I said earlier,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have 30 lead manner just leading them to three or four products.
• 29:30
  It's because I have no idea which of the lead management that I
• 29:34
  created will work.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: End of the day, somebody like this, somebody like that, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But if without AI, you will never have the speed.
• 29:44
  And because you don't have the speed,
• 29:46
  by the time you finish it,
• 29:47
  you're already half dead.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: You already feel like giving up.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: But with AI now, you can do a lot of things very fast.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can test it out.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can launch a product in three hours.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to my landing page at Soropreneur Code,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: the hoop generator that I created and free for anybody to use,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I create,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: launch,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: write the copy,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: everything,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: and even do the video and recording in four hours.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the speed is very important.
• 30:24
  Because if this,
• 30:26
  because they would burn out otherwise,
• 30:28
  and if they burn out,
• 30:30
  they would give.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think, what makes solopreneur quit?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: What makes them quit and decide to go back to 9 to 5?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Most importantly, they can't earn enough to cover their 9 to 5.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And why don't they earn enough?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because they didn't scale fast enough.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And why didn't?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because they don't know which one will work first.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to create enough to find out which one will work.
• 31:04
  And then the moment you find out the one that will work,
• 31:07
  then you scale that one.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens with solopreneurs is they do a bunch of stuff,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: they don't get results,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: and then they give up because they're not failing enough?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're saying?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: They are either not failing enough or they have not experimented enough.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so what made you stick with it?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: What made you different than the others?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's the secret for you?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do it fast enough before I decide I want to give up.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So because of the speed or because of what?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Speed.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what other problems make solopreneurs fail?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would say...
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: The mindset is very important.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the mindset is number one.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really got nothing to do with the other skill sets.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the mindset is very important.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Once you have the correct mindset, then you need to know what to do.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because celebrity is a very wide profession.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:23
  Because if you're talking about accountant,
• 32:25
  you just need to do well in accounting,
• 32:27
  right?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: But a solopreneur,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: you need to be good in copywriting,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: you need to be good in marketing,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: sales,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: operations,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: and everything.
• 32:39
  So,
• 32:40
  because it's very wide,
• 32:43
  a lot of solopreneurs,
• 32:45
  they burn out too fast.
• 32:49
  There's no solution to prevent burnout because in order to make
• 32:54
  it work,
• 32:55
  you have to
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: work so fast that you reach at the brink of being burnt out.
• 33:05
  So I was looking at some of your notes and I saw that one of
• 33:09
  the things that you
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: were saying that Solonors fail is burnout.
• 33:14
  And you also said finances that they don't know how to project
• 33:18
  and they don't know.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: They don't do like quarterly reviews.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: They don't project their monthly incomes.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you have all of this knowledge.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: How did you gain all of this knowledge?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you get your education from?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I learned online.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I learned online.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like from where?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just Google?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: All over the place.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Did you read books?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I Google,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I read,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: and of course,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm older,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: so before that,
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was in a corporate world,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: so I understand a lot of all this when I become a solopreneur.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And even having said that,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: the finance part,
• 34:05
  it makes a difference between a younger solopreneur and an
• 34:08
  older solopreneur,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Especially a solopreneur who has family.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if I mean coming from me, I have three kids.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 34:20
  And immediately day one,
• 34:24
  we are being slammed with all the financial burdens.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: As compared to someone who is 20 years old,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: they virtually have nothing to their name,
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: they can go Bali,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: they can go anywhere,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: and then they can start a software.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the two signs are very different.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 34:52
  But what everyone should do is they must be very mindful of the
• 34:57
  fact that being a
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: solopreneur means zero dollar for a long time.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that is,
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: besides mindset,
• 35:08
  that is the next thing that will shit the solopreneur very hard
• 35:12
  if they are not
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: prepared enough.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean not prepared enough?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't have enough savings or what?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Enough savings.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have enough savings.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or they don't have enough budget or… Okay.
• 35:30
  So,
• 35:32
  are you planning to be a solopreneur for the rest of your
• 35:35
  career life?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to go back?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going… There's no going back.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is it.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Don't move me.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 35:47
  And would you advise everyone to be a solopreneur or do you
• 35:50
  think it's for a
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: certain segment of the society?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely not for everybody.
• 35:56
  It is only for people...
• 36:00
  Okay,
• 36:02
  it's not for people who are too comfortable with corporate
• 36:07
  life.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a red pill and blue pill thing.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 36:18
  so you mentioned scaling and I mentioned my service business
• 36:21
  and you said the
• 36:22
  service business is not scalable because I have to constantly
• 36:25
  pitch for clients,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: correct?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't do any services,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: you only do products and you don't plan to do any service business?
• 36:38
  I have a few mentorship services,
• 36:45
  but I limit to four clients a month,
• 36:49
  right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, once I hit four clients, then I just stop getting new clients.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:58
  But those are,
• 36:59
  what you mentioned earlier,
• 37:00
  those are very highly value ticket offers,
• 37:04
  right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So pretend I'm your client and I'm coming you with this problem.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell you the core of my business is services.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I offer book coaching and ghostwriting.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: These are and I sell digital products on the sides.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I have not been that active promoting them or scaling them.
• 37:26
  Are you telling me I should flip the equation and make the core
• 37:32
  scalable products
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: and do the services as a complementary?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're telling me?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Personally, I think that is a better way.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's more sustainable and it's more scalable.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of products do you think I should sell, you knowing what I do?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think for you, the most immediate will be either short causes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Short causes?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Short causes means 20 minutes to 60 minutes in total.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: The course.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not a 10-hour... Short courses.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, okay.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Short courses.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mini courses.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, mini courses.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, you can sell templates.
• 38:33
  I think with your wealth of experience,
• 38:36
  selling templates is quite a good way.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Would you, but people can tell you like, why should I buy from you?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can ask AI to do this.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like why?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say I want to sell a template.
• 38:53
  For example,
• 38:55
  I also run two podcasts and I can say the list of gear I use
• 39:00
  for my podcast.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And people can say like, why should I buy?
• 39:05
  I can go to ChatGPT and tell them,
• 39:07
  give me the gear I need for my podcast.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to do a mindset change for you now already.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:15
  Those people who ask you that question,
• 39:17
  they are not your target audience anymore.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then who is the target audience?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Those who didn't ask and buy from you.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who didn't ask and buy?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have to find those people.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And buy from you.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: The people who won't ask me...
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: They won't ask you, what should I buy from you?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can ask chat LGBT.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, those are not your target audience.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: The people who are in your target audience, they already bought it.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because they trust me.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because they want to learn from me.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: But more importantly is because the moment you ask me that question,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: you say,
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: this group of people ask me,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: what should I buy from you?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I got to ask chat LGBT.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: That means you are already talking to the wrong target audience.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the number one mindset.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Second mindset is you have to remember and believe that in this world,
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: there will always be people who want to buy this product from you.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: There will always be this people, this person, this group of people.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is you have to find them.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you find them?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: you have to cast a very wide net.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 40:41
  what do I mean by that is that I have a formula that I always
• 40:44
  tell my mentees is
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: that it's a 1% rule.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 40:51
  Of all the people in your outreach,
• 40:53
  only 1% will care what you talk about.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 41:00
  And of the people who care about what you talk about,
• 41:03
  only 1% will buy something from you.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my 1% rule.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So meaning, just now I say my email list is about 35,000, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: So only 1% will actually buy something from me.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like 3,000 people.
• 41:24
  yeah 1% will care yeah so then you go back just now I say my my
• 41:30
  one of my highest
• 41:32
  selling product is 3,000 4,000 sales yeah so you see it's
• 41:36
  roughly it's very close
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: yeah so you actually have two newsletters right?
• 41:43
  you have one on Gumroad you have one on Gumroad the Gumroad is
• 41:46
  purely sales email
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: sales email marketing newsletter it's not really a newsletter
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of like... Yeah, it's just... Yeah.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:57
  Yeah,
• 41:57
  it just reviews to tell them,
• 41:59
  hey,
• 41:59
  this one is good,
• 42:00
  buy this,
• 42:00
  this one is good,
• 42:01
  buy this.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you move people from Gumroad to Substack?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I try to occasionally.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: From my experience, only about 0.5% actually move over.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they're two totally different audiences.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a different target audience.
• 42:29
  Those people who are in Substack,
• 42:31
  they want to learn certain things from me,
• 42:33
  right?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: They want to read my content, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: But those who are in Gumroad,
• 42:38
  they bought something from me and they just want to use that
• 42:40
  and then get on their
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: life.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: So people are sub-stack, they stay for the community.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And people on Gumroad, they just want the information and bye-bye.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want more.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then that's it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: They want to download the lead magnet or they want to pay.
• 42:56
  They just want to do one thing and then they don't care about
• 42:59
  you anymore.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that hurts.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get used to it.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get used to it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what is your funnel looks like?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Your top of the funnel and how does it look like?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 43:18
  for me it's a bit unfair because when I first started off
• 43:21
  without Substack,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be everywhere.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: I post in Facebook groups, I post in Reddit, I post everywhere.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: So my funnel was quite big when I first started.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: which resulted in a more substantial email database that I have now.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: But now I slowly shift towards having Substack as my top of funnel.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:48
  And then I also occasionally sell to my database,
• 43:54
  which is my Gumroad database as well.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I get them to share with other people.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I have two very distinct top of the funnel.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then it just goes down directly, download a lead magnet in Gumroad.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I put them through email list, email workflow.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, it's quite straightforward.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's no secret.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no magic flow.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is... Okay.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to give me a challenge online.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And challenge me...
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: to improve my digital products.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can tell me,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Natasha,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: you have to create a digital product a week,
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: a digital product a month.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to challenge me.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then I want you to check back with me if you're okay.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing it live.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me and see if I succeeded or if I failed.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to do this live.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: A late minute.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: A free late minute.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you want me to do?
• 45:02
  Let's say now at this current,
• 45:05
  at this time,
• 45:06
  let's say I'm making zero from Gumroad.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like occasionally I make $9 every six months, right?
• 45:12
  And I told for like,
• 45:14
  I've been on Gumroad for like three years maybe,
• 45:17
  and I only made $139.5.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to give me a challenge and let's say,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: in a month,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: let's say in two months,
• 45:29
  I want you to come back and give me a challenge and give me the
• 45:33
  steps and I'm going
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: to do them.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe we can go back live and see.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's do that.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: What would you tell me to do?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do it and then give me the challenge.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very hard worker and I'm a good student.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, first of all, you must come up with at least three lead magnets.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Three free lead magnets, what topic?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Three.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 46:01
  You have to,
• 46:02
  I can't tell you much because you are the subject matter
• 46:04
  expert.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, on ghostwriting, you want them on ghostwriting?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: That lids them nicely into your ghostwriting e-book.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ask them to buy my e-book or to buy my course?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ask them to buy the e-book first.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then your first, so that's your first job, three lips and I, okay?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Write it down, okay?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm writing it.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is recording, but I'm going to write it.
• 46:33
  So you think the e-book that I have now,
• 46:35
  I should take it down now or sell it?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: You leave it there first.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: You create a 3D magnet first.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, 3D magnet.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm writing this down.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: On ghostwriting.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: On a very niche topic on ghostwriting.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be something like how to… It has to be a one-page thing.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: One-page lead magnet.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: A checklist, infographic.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or a five-minute video.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I already said 3D.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: It can be also a video.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be this.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you change the pricing of your e-book.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: To maybe $10, $19.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an e-book.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you put your course as the medium-high value after the e-book.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: The course, you say three lead magnets, e-book, then a course.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:52
  And I should launch first the three lead magnets and then
• 47:59
  change the price from the
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: e-course from free to paid and then launch the course.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Done.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then you need to come up with five to seven email sequences.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:14
  Leading the three-lead magnet to the e-book and another five to
• 48:19
  seven email
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: sequences leading from the e-book to the course.
• 48:24
  From the e-book to the course,
• 48:27
  and then from the lead magnet to the e-course.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: So this is, we're focusing on ghostwriting.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I also,
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: something I noticed,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: and this also came organically,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: which is because I've been in the podcast world for a while.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Many people want to know how to create a podcast.
• 48:46
  And I've been asking me,
• 48:48
  and on the side,
• 48:49
  I've been doing consulting on how to create a podcast.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 48:55
  So do you think I should also create three lead magnets on
• 48:59
  podcasting and then lead
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: them to what?
• 49:03
  Okay,
• 49:05
  then now I need to ask you a question which you need to answer
• 49:08
  yourself.
• 49:09
  Is that which one you think is more in tune with your current
• 49:16
  target audience and
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: which one will sell better?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Podcast or ghostwriting?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say both.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: You only can choose one.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: There are two different audiences.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: So which one you have small?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you ask yourself.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: So keep that in mind.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, why is because you will not be able to do two.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 49:47
  You will just have to pick on one and work on it like there's
• 49:51
  no tomorrow.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 49:57
  And then,
• 49:58
  but you said you've been like doing lots of stuff and lots of
• 50:02
  topics.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I only do one at one goal.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I will call it until it pass over a threshold.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then I go on and work on another one.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I need to work on this for how long?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: A month?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think two months is good.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: So in two months, I'm going to follow what you told me.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I also have something to add on now.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: You also... Okay.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you immediately now that probably your choice is ghostwriting.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:41
  If you happen to choose ghostwriting eventually,
• 50:44
  you need to help me with something.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: You need to restructure the niche.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you're talking about ghostwriting, it is too wide.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then immediately, and because you are in the same group,
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: With people like Nicholas Cole.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 51:07
  So if I were to want to do ghostwriting,
• 51:10
  I know you and I know Nicholas Cole.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: I will go to Nicholas Cole.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: But mine is niche because I do memoir ghostwriting.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so memoir.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: You might even want to go deeper.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: You say memoir ghostwriting for female writers.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Even the, ah, I see, I see.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, so you, Nicholas Co.
• 51:33
  cannot win you on that because you are female ghostwriter on
• 51:37
  memoir,
• 51:37
  I think.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or it can be memoir ghostwriting for, yeah, memoir guests.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:45
  It's memoir ghostwriting and it can be for business people or
• 51:50
  for media personality
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: or these are the,
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: ah,
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: I see where you're going.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to,
• 51:57
  but I can't tell you because you are the person who knows your
• 52:01
  niche very well,
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: not me.
• 52:03
  I can only give,
• 52:05
  I can only ping some ideas,
• 52:07
  but I cannot tell you exactly.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot tell you exactly where the niche is.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: You are the best person to travel.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I ask you,
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: so you tell me which one can sell better,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: the ghostwriting or the podcast.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know because if you don't know,
• 52:21
  then chances are the whole time you are gathering multiple
• 52:27
  interests of people,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: which is not very good for a business.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're very right, actually.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're very right.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I should actually pay you for this advice.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't go.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make you Jordanian food.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: So here is the deal.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've been talking for an hour.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: So here is the deal.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: In two months, I'm going to follow your advice verbatim.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Three lead magnets,
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: and then the lead magnet will lead to a course,
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: to an e-book,
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: and then the e-book will lead to a course.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that,
• 53:14
  and I'm going to niche down and market it as memoir
• 53:20
  ghostwriting to actually niche
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: down because that's very specific.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: And not many people talk about it.
• 53:28
  Like people like Nicholas Cole,
• 53:30
  they talk about ghostwriting like LinkedIn ghostwriting.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, his is generic ghostwriting.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, generic.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: And after two months,
• 53:40
  we're going to go back live and we're going to go and see what
• 53:47
  was the result of
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: the experiment.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not all, you know.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: You need to build in public.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, build in public.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a good idea.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: when you are creating the first Leap Manette,
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: you need to straight away tell all your subscribers and followers,
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm building this Leap Manette.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: then what do y'all think should be included?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Then people will tell you, don't build this, build this.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you hear this type of comment,
• 54:14
  then you straight away switch and build that because you are
• 54:17
  validating an idea.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: And building in public should be through notes on Substack, posts?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Notes in Substack, if you have social media, posts everywhere, yes.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you build in public and then you build interest.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: People will know that you have a lead magnet.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when you launch a lead magnet, people will download the lead magnet.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is fascinating.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is amazing.
• 54:43
  Okay,
• 54:44
  before we go,
• 54:44
  what is one book,
• 54:47
  one book that you would recommend for solopreneurs?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or okay, maybe a couple of books.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I heard you mentioned… Yeah, I was thinking one book.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, you're limiting me.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: What are the books that you would recommend for solopreneurs to read?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: or maybe,
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube channels or newsletters to read to up their game,
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: to scale,
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: and make them realize that first,
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: this is viable,
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: and they can actually make a good living on their own terms and succeed.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the resources that you would recommend?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the...
• 55:32
  A few books that truly change a lot of the ways that I do
• 55:37
  things is the $100
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: million series book by Alex Amozzi.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everyone talks about it.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: So his three books,
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: the $100 million offer,
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: $100 million leads,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: and $100 million business model,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: money models.
• 55:48
  So that one is very important,
• 55:51
  especially the first book,
• 55:52
  $100 million offers.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because...
• 55:58
  there's no way a celebrant can make money if they don't know
• 56:02
  how to make an offer.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: And having said that,
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: everyone must realize by now that the product is really just a product,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: but the offer makes the product amazing.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: having said that,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: if you have a lead manner and it doesn't work,
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: you do not need to change the lead manner.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to change the copy.
• 56:32
  Change the way you talk about that lead manner and you will see
• 56:36
  the difference.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we know the difference?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to keep changing it.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: You work on this.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: One week later, it doesn't work.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Then you change it again.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, very important.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Speed is the thing that makes all the difference for solopreneurs.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: So pick up the three books.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Really, I don't make any money from telling you that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: I already have the first two.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have the first two.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So read up the three books.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I don't usually follow any specific person,
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: but I think from what those 32 of you who've been through this one hour,
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know that I preach knowledge is free.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Implementation is priceless.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: So knowledge, you get it from where?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: You get it from YouTube.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just anything you want to learn.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really cannot think of anything you cannot learn from YouTube.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just go and learn it.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, feel free to subscribe to Soropreneur Code.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've already subscribed.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 57:48
  So I think there shouldn't be any particular one person you
• 57:54
  should follow.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, follow a dozen of them.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who makes sense when they talk to you, just follow them.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: But don't learn the...
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: their journey.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because a person's journey,
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: if it's successful,
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't mean that applied to you will be equally successful.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't learn the journey, but learn the methodologies.
• 58:23
  Why did he do that at the point of time under what
• 58:26
  circumstances for what product
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: to what group of target audience?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Learn that methodology and then apply it to your own product.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's about all.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been really amazing.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And for anyone who's listening or watching, you saw my challenge.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to build in public.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Two months.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: For two months.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully I'll pass the test.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we will build in public.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be tagging you.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: It should be fun.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, people say life is a game.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to think of this as a video game.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, scaling up and going to the...
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: level up.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Seward takes us.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Fernie, this has been amazing and insightful.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I said I should pay you for this conversation.
• 59:21
  And for anyone who's listening or watching,
• 59:25
  how can they get in touch with you?
• 59:26
  Now it's your turn to tell us about where they can find you,
• 59:30
  how they can subscribe to you.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: Since you're viewing this, so for sure you have the app.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so just, I will be at Solopreneur Code.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Solopreneur Code on Substack.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to be on Spotify as well.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone listening on Spotify, they're not on Substack as well.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so please follow the Substack.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Find me on Solopreneur Code.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: I reply 100% of all the DMs and messages.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you replied to mine.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent, excellent.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I took a lot of your time.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're a very busy man.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks again.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: And follow me online.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to build in public, be fun.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: And let's see.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see where this will take us.
• 1:00:20
  And for anyone who's listening or watching,
• 1:00:22
  thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:00:25
  And until we meet again,
• 1:00:28
  I will be running a series of Substack Lives and we will see
• 1:00:33
  you soon.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for watching.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Salaam.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.