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Mysterious unsolved of the disappearance of Maura Murray · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maurra Murray empties her bank account,
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Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car and vanishes.
0:09
Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence,
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Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, and traces down new leads in this
0:17
Speaker 1: riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maurra Murray. Tomorrow
0:24
Speaker 1: eight fifteen, seven fifteen Central on Oxygen, the new network
0:29
Speaker 1: for crime Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM
0:37
Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. Sunday will mark ten years
0:42
Speaker 1: since anyone has seen or heard anything from a woman
0:44
Speaker 1: named Maura Murray. Now the college studn't crashed her car
0:47
Speaker 1: one twelve and north have miles north of the U
0:50
Speaker 1: mass Amherst campus. Mara had vanished. When police arrived. There
0:54
Speaker 1: was what appeared to be indications that she may have
0:57
Speaker 1: been running away, but her father and investing ters think
1:00
Speaker 1: there is much more to her disappearance. My initial thought
1:04
Speaker 1: is still my what I think, and that's somebody locally
1:06
Speaker 1: grabbed on a mission to find his missing daughter. Maura
1:09
Speaker 1: bred Murray went to Conquered to see Governor Lynch. Frustrated
1:12
Speaker 1: with the state police investigation into her disappearance. Mr Murray
1:16
Speaker 1: is asking the governor to release all her case files,
1:18
Speaker 1: and he'd like the FBI to get involved in the investigation.
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Speaker 1: She had her world in front of her, a twenty
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Speaker 1: one year old, gorgeous nursing student from Hanson, Massachusetts. She
1:33
Speaker 1: goes out in her car, she has a fender bender,
1:38
Speaker 1: she gets out of the car, and she vanishes. Maura
1:44
Speaker 1: Murray has never been seen alive again. I Nancy Grace,
1:50
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,
1:53
Speaker 1: joining me right now to break it down and put
1:55
Speaker 1: it back together again and try to get answers about
1:59
Speaker 1: Maura Murry. The search is ongoing. Former US martial art
2:04
Speaker 1: Roderick and investigative journalist Maggie Freeling. Guys, thank you so
2:09
Speaker 1: much for being with us. First of all, I want
2:12
Speaker 1: you to hear what the dad says. What do you
2:16
Speaker 1: think happened to Mara. I think somebody, some somebody grabbed
2:20
Speaker 1: maybe somebody hearing it in a scanner or something like that.
2:25
Speaker 1: I think there's a Monday night It isn't there's nothing
2:28
Speaker 1: really going on. It's not a tourist type of deal.
2:32
Speaker 1: I think a local dirt bag grabbed it, and I
2:36
Speaker 1: know she would have called me that that Monday night
2:39
Speaker 1: as you were able. Then the accident happens, and that
2:41
Speaker 1: changes everything. Change. Whatever plan she had is out the window.
2:45
Speaker 1: Whatever she was trying to do is now she's got
2:47
Speaker 1: a whole new set of circumstances. It's got to be
2:50
Speaker 1: frustrating that the same possibilities that you were dealing with
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Speaker 1: the Wednesday afterwards are still all in play, exactly the
2:57
Speaker 1: same thing, the same thing. Now there's there's no question
3:02
Speaker 1: about whether I'm gonna look for you know, this is
3:05
Speaker 1: my kid. Uh my kid wants me to look for her.
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna look for my kid. You know,
3:11
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to her. I mean, I
3:14
Speaker 1: don't have Maura, I don't have a body, you know.
3:18
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I have to I have to think in
3:21
Speaker 1: these terms. But the case, certainly it's an olva to
3:24
Speaker 1: Maggie free Lang again, thank you and Art for being
3:27
Speaker 1: with us. Take me back to the evening the day
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Speaker 1: that Maura Murray disappeared. What happened? So from what we know,
3:37
Speaker 1: um happened because we do have receipts from a liquor
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Speaker 1: store and at m footage with time stamps. Maura dropped
3:46
Speaker 1: off some clothing at a nursing friend's dorm, headed to
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Speaker 1: the A p M. Withdrew all of the money from
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Speaker 1: her bank account, which was around two and then she
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Speaker 1: headed to the liquor store, but up liquor, hopped in
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Speaker 1: her car and drove up towards New Hampshire. UM. We
4:05
Speaker 1: don't know where she was going, but the fender bender
4:08
Speaker 1: happened in haveral Um and that is the last time
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Speaker 1: anybody saw her. UM bus driver Butch Atwood was coming
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Speaker 1: home from work head around seven pm and says he
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Speaker 1: had a conversation with a young woman who appeared shaken
4:26
Speaker 1: up right near his house in a car accident. He
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Speaker 1: asked her if she wanted him to call the police,
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Speaker 1: and he says she said no, she called Triple A. However,
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Speaker 1: he knew that was not true because even today you
4:39
Speaker 1: do not get any sort of cell phone reception in
4:43
Speaker 1: that area. So Butch, the Butch bus driver, went home
4:47
Speaker 1: and he called to Aren't Roderick, former US Marshall art,
4:52
Speaker 1: isn't it true that something got hanky with a nine
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Speaker 1: one one call? Was it diverted what happened, you know
4:59
Speaker 1: when and Butch Atwood got back to his um house,
5:03
Speaker 1: which was only about a hundred yards from the accident location,
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Speaker 1: he called one and according to him, there was there.
5:11
Speaker 1: The call was either busy. Then it got diverted to
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Speaker 1: a different county dispatcher and they forward the call back
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Speaker 1: to the Grafton County, which was in the area where
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Speaker 1: the original nine one one call should have gone. That
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Speaker 1: dispatcher from Grafton County actually ended up calling back Butch Atwood.
5:32
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like how this whole call came together.
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Speaker 1: This girl, Maura Murray, who disappears on Fab nine after
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Speaker 1: a car crash on Route one twelve. Have her heell
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Speaker 1: New Hampshire. It's I say, out in the middle of nowhere,
5:49
Speaker 1: but I grew up in an area just like that,
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Speaker 1: very very rural. Now. Moura Murray was a nursing student
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Speaker 1: at University Massachusetts Amherst. That afternoon she left campus, but
6:00
Speaker 1: before she left, she emailed her professors and her supervisor,
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Speaker 1: writing she was going to take a week off due
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Speaker 1: to a death and her family. Now, this is the
6:13
Speaker 1: weird part. Nobody in her family has ever been able
6:17
Speaker 1: to confirm that any death occurred, not even recently. There
6:22
Speaker 1: was no death in her family. Okay, we know that.
6:25
Speaker 1: Now here's the problem. This so often happens. Police initially
6:29
Speaker 1: treated her case as a missing person's case, thinking she
6:35
Speaker 1: wanted to disappear, and that speculation was all because she
6:40
Speaker 1: had made preparations to travel and there seemed to be
6:44
Speaker 1: no evidence of foul play. But many people, including myself,
6:49
Speaker 1: are convinced that Maura Murray was kidnapped that day, and
6:54
Speaker 1: I believe she's dead. It's very hard for me to
6:57
Speaker 1: believe that Maria Murray somehow created a whole new life
7:02
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist somewhere else and has never contacted
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Speaker 1: her family. Again, that's hard for me to blame Maggie. Yeah,
7:12
Speaker 1: And you know, I think that's also kind of them
7:17
Speaker 1: perspective that I was able to put into this. I mean,
7:19
Speaker 1: I was a twenty one year old girl who did
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Speaker 1: go to U mass and I found so many similarities
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Speaker 1: between Maura and myself. And while this, you know, this
7:30
Speaker 1: whole theory came from James Runner. You know, while this
7:33
Speaker 1: tandem driver she escaped started a new life seems really
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Speaker 1: sexy and he can make it compelling. Um, you know,
7:41
Speaker 1: having been in her situation, I think it is also
7:45
Speaker 1: very unlikely that that is something that she did. What
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Speaker 1: are you saying made it's sexy? James Runner, the author
7:55
Speaker 1: his whole book came out True Crime Addict, and his
8:00
Speaker 1: whole theory in the book is that she, you know,
8:03
Speaker 1: was driving up there with a tandem driver, a friend
8:06
Speaker 1: or somebody who helped her escape and start a new life.
8:10
Speaker 1: When you're saying she started a whole new live based
8:14
Speaker 1: on this book by James Renner. UM True Crime Addict
8:19
Speaker 1: by James Renner, True Crime Addict, How I Lost myself
8:23
Speaker 1: in the mysterious disappearance of Maura Murray. Maggie, you disagree
8:29
Speaker 1: with Renner's portrayal of what happened to mar Murray? What
8:32
Speaker 1: exactly is he claiming happened? So, you know, I wouldn't
8:39
Speaker 1: say I necessarily disagree. I just don't see it being
8:42
Speaker 1: the most likely possibility in this day and age. But
8:46
Speaker 1: this wasn't like the eighties where there was no you know,
8:49
Speaker 1: internet trades, no cell phones. I mean, I so James
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Speaker 1: Renner is claiming that Maura, when she left U Mass
8:58
Speaker 1: had a plan to drive away with a tandem driver,
9:03
Speaker 1: a friend, a family member, somebody that was going to
9:07
Speaker 1: help her escape and start a new life, escape from what. Yes,
9:12
Speaker 1: she had once using uh stolen credit card to buy
9:16
Speaker 1: some food, all right, she had a fenderbender with her
9:19
Speaker 1: dad's car. There's nothing to escape. This girl had gone
9:22
Speaker 1: to West Point, she was about to start a nursing career.
9:26
Speaker 1: She had a high school sweetheart, Billy rash Uh stationed
9:30
Speaker 1: at Fort Seale in Oklahoma, that she was going to marry.
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Speaker 1: She's gorgeous, she's young, she's healthy. Escape what so, I'm
9:38
Speaker 1: not sure what we're winter is headed with this, but
9:41
Speaker 1: the fact that she stopped and made some purchases and
9:45
Speaker 1: was planning to take a week off, which she told
9:48
Speaker 1: everybody that. I mean, I don't think the crash was
9:52
Speaker 1: part of the plan. And if she wanted to disappear,
9:55
Speaker 1: she could have done that. And back to his theory,
9:58
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling, who was this quote in tandem driver? In
10:03
Speaker 1: other words, somebody's driving along with her or is going
10:05
Speaker 1: to meet her somewhere. It's not the body and her family, right,
10:09
Speaker 1: And I think there there are many things to what
10:11
Speaker 1: you just said. I mean, she did have a fender bender. Yes,
10:14
Speaker 1: you know, before this one, she also crashed her dad's
10:17
Speaker 1: car right before she disappeared. Um, yes, she stole from
10:21
Speaker 1: Fort Knox Um. Renner also claims that her relationship with
10:26
Speaker 1: her boyfriend Bill Roush was not great. Um. Neither was
10:30
Speaker 1: my relationship with my high school boyfriend. That's why, thank
10:34
Speaker 1: you lord, I didn't marry him as wonderful as he
10:38
Speaker 1: seemed when I was sixteen. Uh So the fact that
10:42
Speaker 1: that wasn't working out. You know, you can make a childish,
10:46
Speaker 1: immature decision, aren't Roderick, But you really think she would
10:50
Speaker 1: have kept up the force of a disappearance for all
10:52
Speaker 1: this time and cut herself off from her parents and family.
10:56
Speaker 1: I mean, the answer you've you've you know, you've been
10:58
Speaker 1: in the law, enforce, the judicial area for criminal justice
11:02
Speaker 1: process for a lot of years. It's almost impossible, I think,
11:07
Speaker 1: in this day and age for twenty one year old
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Speaker 1: girl to just drop off the face of the earth.
11:11
Speaker 1: Uh intentionally. And I think Renner's theory is based on
11:15
Speaker 1: a lot of false premises because what actually occurred was
11:20
Speaker 1: he never really got to speak to a lot of people.
11:23
Speaker 1: The family refused to talk to him. Uh, you know,
11:26
Speaker 1: a lot of her friends didn't talk to him, so
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Speaker 1: I think he's based theory on a lot of false
11:31
Speaker 1: premises and rumor and innuendo. I like you and Maggie,
11:37
Speaker 1: and I also agree to that there's that there's probably
11:40
Speaker 1: she was grabbed in this, some foul play involved in
11:44
Speaker 1: her disappearance. I have no doubt in my mind, and
11:47
Speaker 1: I'm not trashing then because his book brought a lot
11:52
Speaker 1: of attention to the marmur And case, and I'm grateful
11:55
Speaker 1: for that, and a lot of his research has really
11:58
Speaker 1: helped mentcy. I have a clip I'd like to play
12:00
Speaker 1: of Maggie interviewing Keim and Lance. We've interviewed them before.
12:04
Speaker 1: They're the podcasters, the missing Maura Murray podcasters, And this
12:09
Speaker 1: is a clip about the timeline of what happened that night,
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Speaker 1: and it is a clip from the Disappearance of Maura Murray.
12:21
Speaker 1: Did you guys get interested in the case? Just being
12:24
Speaker 1: interested in the in true crime overall and U Maura's
12:28
Speaker 1: case always comes up once you start reading about it.
12:30
Speaker 1: It just starts like unlayering and unfolding and just before
12:35
Speaker 1: you know what, you're like down the rabbit hole. The
12:36
Speaker 1: mystery within the mystery is why was she heading up
12:39
Speaker 1: there in the first place. Do you guys have an
12:41
Speaker 1: opinion on why do you think she was heading up there?
12:43
Speaker 1: I can't really say I do. We tried really hard
12:46
Speaker 1: to not have fear. Tell me a little bit about
12:48
Speaker 1: the crash. Uh Well, based on the police transcripts and
12:53
Speaker 1: the call log, a neighbor calls. A pat with a
12:59
Speaker 1: bus driver pulls up who was also a neighbor and
13:01
Speaker 1: talks to her. She said she already called her. Blage
13:04
Speaker 1: is a lie because there's no cell phone service up there,
13:08
Speaker 1: so she could not have gotten a call up and
13:09
Speaker 1: he knew that immediately. And I think that is like
13:12
Speaker 1: the most fascinating thing, at least for me, that this
13:16
Speaker 1: accident happens. There were eyes on the accident. It is
13:19
Speaker 1: in the White Mountains in New Hampshire. But there's a
13:22
Speaker 1: house there. There's a house here. Someone pulls up and
13:26
Speaker 1: talks to her, there's phone, calls me to and right
13:30
Speaker 1: at this moment where apparently everybody turned around or he
13:35
Speaker 1: wasn't looking, she's gone. And that window of opportunities like
13:40
Speaker 1: mind belonging to me. It's baffling. How long is that window? Um?
13:44
Speaker 1: You can probably narrow it down to about seven minutes.
13:48
Speaker 1: Figuring out why Morea vanished sometime during those seven minutes
13:52
Speaker 1: when the neighbors turned away and didn't see anything is crucial.
13:59
Speaker 1: Oh Omura disappeared in a remote part of New Hampshire.
14:03
Speaker 1: The ROADSI crashed on was well traveled, which brings me
14:09
Speaker 1: to the theory of foul play. Let's take a look
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15:31
Speaker 1: Alright where I left off, let me think, Oh, yes,
15:36
Speaker 1: foul play. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that?
15:39
Speaker 1: Alan do? That's what I'm focusing on, foul play. And
15:43
Speaker 1: I can tell you something. This girl didn't just disappear.
15:46
Speaker 1: She didn't go off on her own for soul searching
15:49
Speaker 1: or to find herself or just start a new life
15:51
Speaker 1: in Oh, she's dead. Okay. I can tell you that
15:56
Speaker 1: right now from my studio and my series of sex
16:00
Speaker 1: M one three two show She's dead. Okay. So now
16:04
Speaker 1: that I've established that in my mind, can we get
16:07
Speaker 1: to work and try to figure out what happened. Let's
16:09
Speaker 1: start with the crash. Okay, Arn't Roderick, former US Marshall,
16:15
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling investigative journalist, and of course the Duke Alan.
16:19
Speaker 1: Do you joining me along with my friend here in
16:21
Speaker 1: the studio, Jackie Um. Arn't Roderick. Tell me about this crash,
16:27
Speaker 1: because art I don't care who wrote what in their book.
16:30
Speaker 1: She did not plan for a crash that day, all right,
16:34
Speaker 1: that through the monkey wrench in the work. So tell
16:37
Speaker 1: me about the crash. I mean, when you when you
16:39
Speaker 1: look at the crash scene you had mentioned it's a
16:42
Speaker 1: rural area. It is kind of a rural area, but
16:44
Speaker 1: there are about twenty houses within a half mile radius.
16:49
Speaker 1: So where this accident occurred. The accident occurred on room once. Well,
16:54
Speaker 1: it's it's like at the beginning of the kink Comengus
16:56
Speaker 1: Highway in New Hampshire. It's a two lane highway and
17:01
Speaker 1: there was a sharp almost ninety degree turn that she
17:04
Speaker 1: couldn't negotiate and she kind of clipped the inside elbow
17:09
Speaker 1: of that whoa art art. I love you, man, but
17:15
Speaker 1: I'm drinking from a fire hydrant here too much at once,
17:17
Speaker 1: too much, I'm not to let me just let me
17:20
Speaker 1: just break it down for a minute because it's actually
17:23
Speaker 1: for Alan deep because he just can't process that quickly.
17:27
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so let's just hold on um, poor guy.
17:32
Speaker 1: He and you're so much So we've got mar Murray.
17:36
Speaker 1: She's going along the Cake and Mangus Highway there in
17:39
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. First of all, is it rural, yes? Is
17:45
Speaker 1: it heavily wooded? Heavily wooded? Yes? Is there a body
17:50
Speaker 1: of water nearby? My chance, there's there's a pond sort
17:54
Speaker 1: of a mile from it's called French pond. It's about
17:57
Speaker 1: a mile from where the accident occurred. Are you saying
18:00
Speaker 1: French or fresh French? French? Okay, as in the country
18:05
Speaker 1: freence al right, Okay, So she's driving along. What are
18:08
Speaker 1: the weather conditions? Just curious. Do we know it's cold,
18:11
Speaker 1: it's February. There was about two and a half but
18:16
Speaker 1: pet snow on the ground, but the roads were clearing
18:19
Speaker 1: two and a half did you say two and a
18:21
Speaker 1: half feet? Well, about two ft of snow on the
18:25
Speaker 1: side of the road. The roads are pretty clear, I
18:27
Speaker 1: mean Hampshire. Okay. This is very significant to me because
18:31
Speaker 1: in my mind, this greatly reduces the likelihood that somebody
18:35
Speaker 1: stopped and engaged in conversation with her and farthering I'm
18:39
Speaker 1: not getting I'm not putting one toe outside the car,
18:41
Speaker 1: and also to me minimizes also it changes her actions
18:47
Speaker 1: and reactions because it's freezing cold outside. But again, she
18:52
Speaker 1: did not have sales service, so let's factor that in
18:56
Speaker 1: no cell service. Hold on, hold on um Along the
18:59
Speaker 1: street wretch where she had her collision, were there any
19:05
Speaker 1: red lights, any businesses, any anything, or is it out
19:08
Speaker 1: in the middle of forest? Now? There there there were
19:11
Speaker 1: there was a business rate at the corner of that
19:14
Speaker 1: sharp turn. There was several houses in the area about
19:18
Speaker 1: what was the business and a half mile radius there
19:21
Speaker 1: was several houses in the area. Okay, that is important
19:25
Speaker 1: to me. Several houses within a half a mile. M Yeah,
19:32
Speaker 1: there's actually there's actually one collar. The closest neighbor was
19:38
Speaker 1: only about from the accident scene. Is that Butch Atwood? No,
19:43
Speaker 1: that would have been the Westman's which Atwood lived about
19:46
Speaker 1: a hundred yards from the accident scene. Straight down the road.
19:49
Speaker 1: You could actually see which Atwood's residents from the accident scene.
19:53
Speaker 1: But there was a home forty feet away from the craft.
19:56
Speaker 1: This is ok this is Nancy. This is what's really incredible.
20:00
Speaker 1: And you go up there, you know, Art and I
20:02
Speaker 1: both expected it to be, you know, super rural. Nobody
20:05
Speaker 1: was around. But when you get to a crash site,
20:09
Speaker 1: it actually like it is a neighborhood. There are houses there.
20:12
Speaker 1: And yes, the Westman's house was basically on top of
20:17
Speaker 1: the crash site, and just maybe a hundred yards down
20:20
Speaker 1: the road are three other houses. So there were many
20:24
Speaker 1: many eyes on this scene. Guys, just hold on, let
20:27
Speaker 1: me process this. I was you know, joking around with
20:31
Speaker 1: Alan Deep for a minute. But this is completely different
20:34
Speaker 1: than what I imagined. This changes everything. It absolutely changes
20:40
Speaker 1: everything because if she had when I say, crash, it
20:44
Speaker 1: was basically a fender bender. I think, Um, yes, the
20:48
Speaker 1: car could have driven out of there. That was my
20:50
Speaker 1: next question. Hold on, hold on, I'm taking notes as
20:53
Speaker 1: fast as I can. So her car could have driven
20:56
Speaker 1: out of there. Is that what you said? Yes? Yes?
21:00
Speaker 1: Was it off the road? Is there some reason she
21:02
Speaker 1: would just keep going? Well, what we found is we actually, uh,
21:09
Speaker 1: as part of the show, we actually went out and
21:11
Speaker 1: purchased the Saturn, the same model that she had at
21:16
Speaker 1: this particular time. We took it to a garage mechanic
21:19
Speaker 1: did several tests on it, and we found that when
21:24
Speaker 1: that model of that satur installs out, which which more
21:27
Speaker 1: than likely happened installed out when it kind of had
21:30
Speaker 1: that fender bender, Um, you have to take the key
21:34
Speaker 1: out of the ignition before you can put it back
21:38
Speaker 1: in to restart the vehicle. I don't think she knew that,
21:41
Speaker 1: because when they downloaded the black box inside the vehicle
21:45
Speaker 1: to do some tests on it, they found that after
21:48
Speaker 1: the air bags deployed, there was seven clicks ignition and
21:52
Speaker 1: the vehicle wouldn't start. So, um, we think that she
21:57
Speaker 1: didn't realize that she had to take the key out
21:59
Speaker 1: and put it back in to restart the vehicle. Wow.
22:04
Speaker 1: Hold on, so that was revealed with the black box.
22:09
Speaker 1: That was revealed with the black box inside the car,
22:11
Speaker 1: but also revealed by a mechanic car mechanic. Uh, he
22:16
Speaker 1: took this particular model of vehicle too. He said, you
22:19
Speaker 1: have to remove the key out of the admission to
22:22
Speaker 1: actually start the vehicle back up again. Wasn't it art?
22:27
Speaker 1: Wasn't it her car? Wouldn't she have known that if
22:29
Speaker 1: it was her car? Well, I I you would think that,
22:33
Speaker 1: But I was kind of shocked because I didn't realize
22:36
Speaker 1: that with the the issue with the vehicle. I mean,
22:38
Speaker 1: how many times did the car stall out? It was
22:40
Speaker 1: an automatic transmission in that particular Saturn, and she probably
22:46
Speaker 1: never had it stalled out before. Now, the car did
22:48
Speaker 1: have some mechanical issues to it. Her father was getting
22:53
Speaker 1: ready to buy her a newer, used vehicle so that
22:56
Speaker 1: she could get back and forth to her school, but
23:02
Speaker 1: the car was not in good running condition. But she
23:05
Speaker 1: probably just didn't know that you just take the key out,
23:08
Speaker 1: put it back in. Well, I gotta tell you something.
23:12
Speaker 1: I've had my Toyota. I had my for I guess
23:16
Speaker 1: twelve years. When I got when I was sixteen. I
23:19
Speaker 1: had so many problems with it. And it was not
23:21
Speaker 1: the Toyota's fault, you know, Okay, I didn't know you
23:24
Speaker 1: had to put oil in it. Nobody told me that.
23:26
Speaker 1: I just knew about gas. So, needless to say, the
23:30
Speaker 1: fact that I had the car for thirteen years does
23:32
Speaker 1: say that Toyota is a pretty good car, no matter
23:35
Speaker 1: what I did to it. But when it wouldn't crank,
23:37
Speaker 1: the first thing I would just instinctively do is take
23:40
Speaker 1: the key out, pray and curse and carry on, and
23:45
Speaker 1: then then try to crank it back up again. I
23:48
Speaker 1: mean to me, that would just be natural instinct to
23:51
Speaker 1: take the key out and then try it again and
23:52
Speaker 1: try it again. But that's really interesting because a black
23:56
Speaker 1: box can it tell you the key was never taken
23:58
Speaker 1: out of the ignition and tell you that the mom
24:02
Speaker 1: times that it was that it was attempted to be
24:04
Speaker 1: turned over, and what when you look at the black box,
24:08
Speaker 1: the black box indicated that there was a slight jar
24:13
Speaker 1: in the vehicle, and then point two seconds later the
24:16
Speaker 1: air bags deployed. It shows that in the black box
24:20
Speaker 1: now after the airbags deployed, there was an attempt to
24:24
Speaker 1: there was an attempt to turn the vehicle over. There
24:27
Speaker 1: was seven clicks after the airbags deployed on the ignition itself.
24:32
Speaker 1: You know, Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist. I'm just at this
24:37
Speaker 1: moment feeling like I'm right there in that car that
24:41
Speaker 1: Saturn with her and it's two ft of snow outside.
24:45
Speaker 1: The airbags have deployed over a simple fender bender, and
24:49
Speaker 1: she's trying seven times to restart the vehicle, and she
24:55
Speaker 1: realizes I'm I'm stuck. Right. You know another thing you're
25:02
Speaker 1: telling me, Maggie, I had imagine something completely different. And
25:07
Speaker 1: that's why I never went to a jury with a
25:11
Speaker 1: case or two a major plea unless I went to
25:15
Speaker 1: the scene, because that changes everything. I can't tell you
25:20
Speaker 1: how many cases I won because the other side didn't
25:24
Speaker 1: get off their lazy rear ends and go out on
25:27
Speaker 1: the weekend or whenever and look at the crime scene,
25:31
Speaker 1: take it in, go to the witnesses, houms homes, find them,
25:35
Speaker 1: talk to them, question them, put it all together. But
25:40
Speaker 1: seeing the scene makes all the difference. I thought she
25:43
Speaker 1: was out on a curvy, windy road in the snow
25:46
Speaker 1: with nobody around and some freaky dudes coming up asking
25:51
Speaker 1: if she needed help. That's what I imagined in my head.
25:54
Speaker 1: That's not That's not what it is at all. It's
25:57
Speaker 1: a neighborhood. Okay, I understand the car thing. Let me
26:00
Speaker 1: just ask you one last thing about the car, Maggie,
26:03
Speaker 1: what does she shit? We believe she hit a snowbank, um,
26:06
Speaker 1: and the car sort of bounced off of the snowbank.
26:09
Speaker 1: And there actually has been um, a lot of questions
26:13
Speaker 1: and we still can't really get to the bottom of
26:15
Speaker 1: whether the car was in the snowbank or not in
26:19
Speaker 1: the snow bank, but it seemed like the car hit
26:23
Speaker 1: the snowbank. Well, certainly their photos of where her car
26:26
Speaker 1: was right there is a series there's a series of
26:32
Speaker 1: photographs that were taken by the officer at the scene
26:36
Speaker 1: that responded, UM, but we have not seen those. There's
26:41
Speaker 1: a lot of issues going on in this particular case
26:44
Speaker 1: where the Attorney General's Office in New Hampshire has a
26:49
Speaker 1: lot of information to us, but it's also withholding a
26:52
Speaker 1: lot of information in case they can actually come up
26:55
Speaker 1: with the subspect. You know, my gut, my knee jort
26:58
Speaker 1: reaction is they should release the remation. Why are they
27:01
Speaker 1: doing that? But you know that's not always correct because
27:04
Speaker 1: a lot of times false confessions have been ruled out
27:08
Speaker 1: because the the liar didn't know the facts of the
27:12
Speaker 1: murder or the case, and confessions or corroboration can be
27:16
Speaker 1: ruled in because these people know things that have not
27:20
Speaker 1: been released to the media. So I get it. Okay.
27:22
Speaker 1: So we're in a neighborhood. She has a fenderbender, probably
27:25
Speaker 1: into the snow bank, and but it can't be that
27:29
Speaker 1: much of a snowbank, because you know, you're in the
27:31
Speaker 1: middle of a neighborhood. And she tries to recrank the car.
27:36
Speaker 1: She may or may not know you've got to remove
27:38
Speaker 1: the key from the ignition to make it work. We've
27:42
Speaker 1: learned that from the black Box. And then she vanishes,
27:48
Speaker 1: She completely vanishes. Listen to this. This coming Sunday will
27:57
Speaker 1: mark ten years since anyone has seen or heard anything
28:01
Speaker 1: from a woman named Maura Murray now the College Stude
28:03
Speaker 1: crashed her car on one twelve and North Haverty, miles
28:07
Speaker 1: north of the UMass Amherst campus. That she had left
28:11
Speaker 1: just a few hours earlier. Mara had vanished when police arrived.
28:15
Speaker 1: There was what appeared to be indications that she may
28:17
Speaker 1: have been running away, but her father and investigators think
28:21
Speaker 1: there is much more to her disappearance. My initial thought
28:26
Speaker 1: is still my what I think, and that's somebody locally
28:29
Speaker 1: grabbed him. Twelve years ago today more vanished from this
28:35
Speaker 1: very spot on a cold, dark knight. She has not
28:38
Speaker 1: been seen or heard from since. Is it safe to
28:42
Speaker 1: call us armchair detectives with a camera and a microphone.
28:46
Speaker 1: It's something that starts as a hobby and gradually grows
28:49
Speaker 1: into something more obsessive. That he said to because blood
28:53
Speaker 1: and people have said, ah, yeah, I don't know. I
28:56
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that it's dangerous to do
28:59
Speaker 1: something like we're doing right now. But there are some
29:02
Speaker 1: questionable characters involved who may be listening at some point
29:06
Speaker 1: hopefully what's going on right now? Well, we're in Lincoln,
29:12
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. We're at the roadway end, and someone knew
29:15
Speaker 1: we were going to be in Lincoln. There is no
29:17
Speaker 1: way that someone that knows that their daughter is missing
29:20
Speaker 1: knows why they're missing or had anything to do with it.
29:22
Speaker 1: Would spend twelve years looking for their daughter. I would
29:25
Speaker 1: put this whole thing on for twelve years, taking over
29:29
Speaker 1: their lives. I know it took over mynd on a
29:33
Speaker 1: mission to find his missing daughter, Mora Bred Murray went
29:36
Speaker 1: to Conquer to see Governor Lynch. Frustrated with the state
29:39
Speaker 1: police investigation into her disappearance. Mr Murray is asking the
29:43
Speaker 1: governor to release all her case files, and he'd like
29:46
Speaker 1: the FBI to get involved in the investigation. She was U, buddy,
29:50
Speaker 1: and we want to act. There's the hotplation I can
29:54
Speaker 1: stop looking for my daughter, so I'm never going to stop.
29:59
Speaker 1: In seven minutes, seemingly, Moura Murray disappears. Question to you,
30:08
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling. Investigative journalists with me? Aren't Roderick former U. S.
30:12
Speaker 1: Marshal with me, who have researched and investigated this case exhaustively. Maggie,
30:19
Speaker 1: what about the people that lived right around the little
30:24
Speaker 1: finderbend or didn't they see anything? It's really bizarre. I mean,
30:31
Speaker 1: there must have been unless somebody saw something that they
30:34
Speaker 1: don't want to say. There must have been a moment
30:38
Speaker 1: where everybody who was looking at the scene turned around
30:43
Speaker 1: and when they were all investigated, or when when all
30:47
Speaker 1: of the neighbors were spoken to um they did say,
30:51
Speaker 1: you know, butch Atwood he got out of his bus
30:53
Speaker 1: and went into the house to call nine one one.
30:55
Speaker 1: I mean he turned around for that moment. I mean
30:57
Speaker 1: there must have been a moment where everybody turned around
31:00
Speaker 1: and didn't see what happened. I I don't believe that.
31:03
Speaker 1: I don't believe that that everybody at one moment. You
31:06
Speaker 1: know what, what's funny, Alan, do you? I've investigated so
31:10
Speaker 1: many cases where there are a ton of people, but
31:14
Speaker 1: for instance, let's just say it's a shooting, but the
31:17
Speaker 1: moment I would say, well, okay, he's got the gun
31:20
Speaker 1: in his hand, it's pointed. Then what happened? I don't know.
31:25
Speaker 1: Ms Grace. I looked at the window right then. I
31:28
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. I just heard a pop and
31:33
Speaker 1: nobody happens to be looking at that precise moment, which
31:39
Speaker 1: I find really not only hard to believe, but statistically
31:43
Speaker 1: highly improbable. On the other hand, what time of the
31:47
Speaker 1: day did this go down? Aren't Roderick? Yeah? The first
31:51
Speaker 1: nine one one call came at SEM in February, so
31:55
Speaker 1: it's dark obviously, I mean that area is very dark,
32:00
Speaker 1: so people are in their homes. They're not outside. They're
32:03
Speaker 1: not outside sitting on the front porch. They're inside, probably
32:07
Speaker 1: having supper, getting their children ready for school, watching TV.
32:11
Speaker 1: They don't even know what's going down outside, you know,
32:14
Speaker 1: under free from their home. So that means to me,
32:18
Speaker 1: not many people saw it. How many nine one one
32:20
Speaker 1: calls where there aren't there There was two nine one
32:23
Speaker 1: one calls. The first one came in at seven seven.
32:26
Speaker 1: Then you have Butch Atwoods nine one one call probably
32:30
Speaker 1: coming in around the same time. Now the lawn. The
32:32
Speaker 1: dispatch log shows that the Sergeant Smith from Behaviral p
32:37
Speaker 1: D called out at seven forty six. Now we talked
32:41
Speaker 1: to him when he arrived at the scene. According to
32:45
Speaker 1: the dispatch log at seven forty six, there was nobody
32:49
Speaker 1: at the scene, so she was already gone at seven.
32:55
Speaker 1: So Atwoods called, wait a minute, that was call? Is
32:58
Speaker 1: at what time? Seven? To me to uh, we're not
33:02
Speaker 1: exactly one pent sure because we haven't been able to
33:05
Speaker 1: confirm that. What we have is the first time we
33:11
Speaker 1: have at seven seven, and that's from the Westman's calling
33:15
Speaker 1: Grafton County and the and the cop gets there at
33:19
Speaker 1: what time at seven forty six is when he calls out?
33:22
Speaker 1: But when we interviewed the police officer, he said when
33:26
Speaker 1: he got there, he immediately got out of the vehicle
33:29
Speaker 1: to make sure nobody was hurt, and he called out,
33:32
Speaker 1: he says, a few minutes later, So he might have
33:35
Speaker 1: been there at seven forty. Um, and the Westman's who
33:40
Speaker 1: called at seven seven had eyes on Mora or somebody
33:46
Speaker 1: that was driving that vehicle at that particular time. What
33:50
Speaker 1: time is that at seven seven? Okay, hold on White,
33:55
Speaker 1: this name keeps popping up. But Atwood? Who is Butch Atwood?
34:01
Speaker 1: And what Maggie does he have to do with this scenario?
34:04
Speaker 1: Butch Atwood is the bus driver that drove by, and
34:07
Speaker 1: he is, according to you know what, we've found, the
34:12
Speaker 1: only person to have seen Moura that night or spoken
34:16
Speaker 1: to Maura that night. I'm sorry, Butch Atwood is the
34:19
Speaker 1: only person to have spoken to Maura. Um. Butch was
34:23
Speaker 1: then the last person to have seen Maura. Huh? And
34:31
Speaker 1: he he was He was a county school bus driver,
34:33
Speaker 1: so he's hid a yellow school bus coming back from
34:37
Speaker 1: dropping a bunch of kids off from the ski trip
34:40
Speaker 1: at that particular time, and he's headed home, he sees
34:43
Speaker 1: the accident. Um, there's there's sort of a little bit
34:46
Speaker 1: of a discrepancy in some of the statements that he's given. Unfortunately,
34:50
Speaker 1: he passed away in two thousand nine. Um, so you know,
34:56
Speaker 1: we aren't able to talk to him. But um uh,
35:00
Speaker 1: he was a known individual to law enforcement in that
35:04
Speaker 1: he was worked for the county. He was a friend
35:07
Speaker 1: of the particular police officer that showed up at the scene,
35:11
Speaker 1: and he was at by that police officer to help
35:14
Speaker 1: him search the area. What do we know about him?
35:20
Speaker 1: Not too much interesting individual. Yeah, he he his his
35:27
Speaker 1: family originally came from Massachusetts. They were sort of part
35:31
Speaker 1: time police officers down there. Um. Sort of a strange guy,
35:37
Speaker 1: a bit of a hoarder from what we understand, Um,
35:41
Speaker 1: moved away from this area. Do you say a hoarder
35:45
Speaker 1: from New Hampshire to Virginian And how old is how
35:54
Speaker 1: old is he? He was older, middle aged sixties maybe yeah, yeah, okay,
36:01
Speaker 1: sixty hoarder. What were you about to say, Maggie. Yeah.
36:06
Speaker 1: From some records we have read by private investigators that
36:09
Speaker 1: interviewed right at you know, in two thousand six, Um,
36:14
Speaker 1: they had interviewed some friends of the Atwoods, and apparently
36:19
Speaker 1: friends never went into the house because it was just
36:22
Speaker 1: so you couldn't you couldn't get into the house. It
36:26
Speaker 1: was just so. So. He had his common law wife. Yeah,
36:32
Speaker 1: she lived there with him at the time Morrol went missing. Yes, children,
36:39
Speaker 1: I don't think you know, we never had children, right,
36:46
Speaker 1: So did she actually the wife lived there with him?
36:49
Speaker 1: Are we sure they were cohabitative at the time? Yes?
36:54
Speaker 1: But was he a hoarder at that time? Yeah? She
36:58
Speaker 1: when when nine when one dispatcher called back, which Atwood's house,
37:02
Speaker 1: they actually spoke to the White first. Is she still alive?
37:08
Speaker 1: She's still alive. Yes, So the hoarding was in that home.
37:13
Speaker 1: So there would have been an opportunity if you wanted
37:18
Speaker 1: to hide something in a hoarder's home, who would ever
37:22
Speaker 1: find it? Yeah? I maviously. From from a law enforcement perspective,
37:28
Speaker 1: you always look at the last person that had contact
37:31
Speaker 1: with somebody that goes missing. Talking to the New Hampshire
37:36
Speaker 1: State Police, the major crimes unit that had the case
37:40
Speaker 1: right now, they have for all intensive purposes, couldn't find
37:44
Speaker 1: anything to connect him with her disappearance. Did they search
37:48
Speaker 1: his home? I they haven't told me that they have
37:53
Speaker 1: searched his home. Um, But I don't know the answer
37:59
Speaker 1: to that. There's some stuff they've been pretty open to
38:02
Speaker 1: us about and given us a lot of information. Other
38:05
Speaker 1: things they haven't. Um. They have looked at everybody that
38:11
Speaker 1: has had any type of contact with moral whatsoever, either
38:15
Speaker 1: on a friendly basis of quick meeting. Um. The law
38:20
Speaker 1: enforcement has done a lot. They have basically treated this
38:24
Speaker 1: case probably within a three to four time frame after
38:29
Speaker 1: she went missing, three to four daytime frame. Behavioral PD
38:33
Speaker 1: more or less just turned this over to the state police.
38:36
Speaker 1: So they quasi investigated. Butch I would say more than
38:45
Speaker 1: at that time. Okay, why do you say. I mean,
38:48
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's guilty. I'm just saying he's the
38:50
Speaker 1: last one to see her in your right. There was
38:54
Speaker 1: a couple of polygraphs given, there was a there was
38:56
Speaker 1: a couple of grand juries that were initiated by the
38:59
Speaker 1: new after State Police to bring everybody in to get
39:03
Speaker 1: testimony on record. And they they have told me, they've
39:07
Speaker 1: told me and Maggie both that they do not have
39:11
Speaker 1: any person of interest in this particular case. So it
39:15
Speaker 1: appears to me that this is one of these incidents
39:17
Speaker 1: where everybody that has had of contact with Maura in
39:22
Speaker 1: the past or around that timeframe that she went missing
39:25
Speaker 1: has been investigated and cleared to a certain degree. Wow,
39:32
Speaker 1: what do we know about the witness Karen McNamara. Now
39:36
Speaker 1: she's apparently the key witness to the biggest conspiracy theory
39:44
Speaker 1: that UH John Smith has been pushing for many, many years,
39:51
Speaker 1: and that's with the blessing apparently of the father, Fred Murray.
39:56
Speaker 1: What do we know about that? I kind of think
39:58
Speaker 1: it's far fancy trying to a the uh have her
40:01
Speaker 1: Hill police. Yeah, I mean this is so we we
40:06
Speaker 1: look into every single one of these theories thoroughly, and
40:10
Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to give too much away,
40:12
Speaker 1: but we look into it and we find Karen to
40:14
Speaker 1: be a very credible witnessed and art personally. You know,
40:19
Speaker 1: as law enforcement doesn't love our witness testimony, but both
40:22
Speaker 1: of us when we sat down and spoke to her,
40:24
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she she truly believed and we
40:29
Speaker 1: don't think she's making up what she saw. Wow, what
40:35
Speaker 1: exactly is she's saying? She saw? What? Karen says she
40:41
Speaker 1: saw yeah, you can you can do Yeah, I mean
40:43
Speaker 1: what she says she we we actually math about the timing.
40:48
Speaker 1: Maggie and I actually drove the same robe she drove.
40:51
Speaker 1: We drove with her and had her tell us exactly
40:55
Speaker 1: what she was doing that particular evening and the route
40:58
Speaker 1: she took to go home from Woodsville to Lincoln, New Hampshire,
41:03
Speaker 1: which would have taken her along that stretch of highway
41:06
Speaker 1: when Maura had her accident, when she she saw a
41:10
Speaker 1: cruiser come by her twice with the lights and lights going,
41:14
Speaker 1: lights and siren responding to the accident scene. Um, she
41:18
Speaker 1: took a more direct route. And you know, some of
41:21
Speaker 1: those roads up there, we're pretty bad pot hold and
41:25
Speaker 1: it was very difficult to do any type of high
41:27
Speaker 1: speed driving on those roads. So she actually saw the
41:31
Speaker 1: cruiser come by her once, take a different route, come up,
41:34
Speaker 1: and come by her again, as it responded. The whole
41:38
Speaker 1: question is she's saying that the vehicle was an SUV
41:42
Speaker 1: when she got to the scene, the suv was pointing
41:45
Speaker 1: nose to nose with More's vehicle. But and she pulled
41:51
Speaker 1: over up near Butch Atwood's house, which was, you know,
41:54
Speaker 1: about a hundred yards away. But she did not see
41:57
Speaker 1: anybody at the scene at all. She didn't see the
41:59
Speaker 1: drive of the vehicle that was in the accident, nor
42:02
Speaker 1: did she see a police officer at the scene. That
42:06
Speaker 1: is basically her testimony in a in a nutshell. She
42:09
Speaker 1: stayed for a couple of minutes and then went home,
42:12
Speaker 1: drove h home, and as soon as she could get
42:14
Speaker 1: cell phone service, she actually called her house to let
42:17
Speaker 1: him know she was coming home. We have that specific time,
42:21
Speaker 1: and we did all the distances, the you know, time
42:25
Speaker 1: measurement of where she could have been and at what
42:28
Speaker 1: time she might have passed, uh the accident scene, and
42:32
Speaker 1: she she saw what she saw. Wow, it's kind of
42:36
Speaker 1: hard to take the whole thing. You say, are you
42:39
Speaker 1: telling me that you believe her? Yes, let me find
42:44
Speaker 1: her to be very credible. Yeah, okay, let's let's take
42:49
Speaker 1: that to its next step. What what do you make
42:53
Speaker 1: of allegations have her Hill police were responsible for Maura
42:58
Speaker 1: Murray's death and they've been covering it up for twelve
43:04
Speaker 1: years now. Isn't it true that Karen McNamara, who you
43:09
Speaker 1: seem to believe, could have seen the police suv but
43:17
Speaker 1: that police are not part of a cover up. I mean,
43:20
Speaker 1: it's just hard for me. First of all, I don't
43:22
Speaker 1: think many people are smart enough to create a conspiracy,
43:25
Speaker 1: much least less keep it quiet for twelve years. What
43:29
Speaker 1: about that art I am with you a d I mean,
43:32
Speaker 1: anybody it's been in that the law enforcement criminal justice
43:37
Speaker 1: field knows that's almost impossible to do. Number one. Number two,
43:40
Speaker 1: we do believe Karen mcamara and we go through this
43:44
Speaker 1: whole issue on the show. Um. And and I mean
43:49
Speaker 1: even when you sit down with with Fred, he doesn't
43:53
Speaker 1: believe that the police were involved in in Moore's disappearance.
44:00
Speaker 1: I think when you look at it and you listen
44:03
Speaker 1: to the explanation from law enforcement, I mean, really, what
44:06
Speaker 1: they were responding to was an abandoned vehicle in a
44:09
Speaker 1: minor motor vehicle accident. And this happens every day in
44:13
Speaker 1: this country. Um, this is not an unusual call. Um.
44:18
Speaker 1: You know, I worked as a local police officer on
44:21
Speaker 1: Cape cod for for three or four years, and I
44:24
Speaker 1: can tell you I came across incidents is like this,
44:27
Speaker 1: where the report of a nine or one call an accident,
44:31
Speaker 1: you arrive at the scene, it's mired, there's no personal injury,
44:35
Speaker 1: there's very minor property damage to the car and no
44:38
Speaker 1: driver around. So you take the information down and just
44:41
Speaker 1: move on to your next call. And that's basically what
44:43
Speaker 1: happened here. The search for mar Murray and for the
44:47
Speaker 1: truth goes on with me. Is Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist
44:52
Speaker 1: and Aren't Roderick former U S Marshall. Join the crime
44:57
Speaker 1: Con Cold Case Club work alongside experts and fellow crime
45:03
Speaker 1: sleuths help uncover new leads and theories in cold cases
45:09
Speaker 1: that they adopt. The very first case is focusing on
45:12
Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of this gorgeous young nursing student, Maura Murray.
45:18
Speaker 1: You're free to join thanks to Oxygen. You can sign
45:23
Speaker 1: up now and find out more at club dot crime
45:27
Speaker 1: con dot com. Club c l U B dot crime Con,
45:34
Speaker 1: c r I M A c o N dot com,
45:39
Speaker 1: Club dot crime con dot com. Our search for the
45:43
Speaker 1: truth is not ending here. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off.
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Speaker 1: Goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over unsolved mysteries?
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Speaker 1: at Club dot crime con dot com. That's club dot
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