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The Construction and Collapse of the 1990's Steelers · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
0:01
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Hannon, and I am joined by I'm Steve Wirt.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: The mirthful Steve Wirt.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Is that like Merriman and Murth?
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: I I would have gone with Jolly, but that's like that's kind of holiday specific.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Green Giant?
0:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't have any vegetables, sorry.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I guess I guess Green Giant too.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: I always associate Jolly with Christmas, but I guess you could associate it with vegetables as well.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, Tim and Steve here.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we're going to talk about the Tom Donohoe era of Steelers football.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting cycle because the Steelers were stuck in mostly mediocrity when Tom Donahoe got there.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: And then he made some really bold moves to make them contenders, but sadly, by the time he left, they were kind of right back at square one.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think as we go through this, you might see some parallels to the Kevin Goldberg era in here.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: And maybe even some parallels to where we are at the time of this recording with Omar Kahn.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: So let's get into that.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: First of all, let's talk about who Don Tom Donahoe was.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: He's a Pittsburgh native.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: He was the grandson of David L.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Lawrence, the former mayor of Pittsburgh and governor of the state of Pennsylvania.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: He's an IUP graduate.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: And you would think if he's the general manager of the Steelers, he probably spent years and years in personnel departments around the NFL and working his way up through the system.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: It's not really the case.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: He actually spends 16 years coaching high school football and basketball for both Seton LaSalle and Western Allegheny High School.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's definitely going to prepare you for an NFL tab job.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Seaton LaSalle's tough.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's kind of funny that that's where his career and 16 years is a long time.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't like he just did that for a couple years.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: And what ends up happening is Dak Butler, the Steeler Hall of Famer, was the director of Blesto.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: And Steve, you you know more about this than I do.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: I I believe that was like the original scouting combine.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was the uh scouting combine that they started between uh it standed for what Browns.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Lions uh Eagles, Steelers
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Talent organizations.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what Blesto stood for.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And it was like these teams pooled their resources to find players.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: And and and uh Jack Butler was the the director of that.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: And and he keeps trying to recruit Donaho to be a scout for Blesto, and I guess Donaho keeps turning him down, but eventually Donaho accepts, and he goes to work for Blesto, and from there the Steelers hire him as their East Talent Scout in 1986.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And Donahoe at that point does slowly work his way up the ladder by proving he has an eye for talent.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: In fact, he's the one who is responsible for drafting linebacker Greg Lloyd in 1987.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Lloyd played at Division II Fort Valley State, and he wasn't invited to the Combine.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: And back then, if you played for a small school like that, your games weren't on TV at all, right?
3:28
SPEAKER_02: There was no widespread cable TV or small school games on TV, and there's no YouTube highlights.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So Donahoe has this VHS tape of a Fort Valley State game.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: What's this VHS of which you speak, too?
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, it was this old medium where you could play these tapes that would record things.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, probably one of dozens of tapes that had been sent to NFL teams by lesser-known schools like that.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: So he watches this tape and he's amazed by this linebacker who he's he says is making every tackle.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: And he convinces the Steelers to draft Lloyd in the sixth round.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: And of course, Greg Lloyd will become one of the key pieces on these 90s teams we're about to talk about.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: So even as a as a scout, he's he's uh starting to impact the roster.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh so he does that for a few years, scouting.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then you know, it's here's here's where the the history gets a little muddy because if you look at sites like profootballreference.com, they list Onahoa as the Steelers general manager starting in 1991, but that's not accurate.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh so first of all, remember the the problem here is the Steelers didn't actually have a general manager job title until the year 2011, which was well into Kevin Colbert's tenure.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So that's the 2011 is the first time they actually designated somebody as the general manager.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh what I could find through old newspaper articles is that Donahoe had been promoted from Scout to the title of director of pro personnel in 1989, but the people ultimately responsible for the drafts and other player signings at that point are Chuck Noel and Dick Haley.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: And when Noel retires, Dick Haley leaves.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: And then in January of 92, Dan Rooney makes two big moves.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: He promotes Donaho to director of football operations, which is the equivalent of the general manager position, and he hires a new head coach named Bill Cower.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: So that's really the start of the Donahue era, is that that um that act in 92.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about where the team was positioned when Donaho took over.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: And it's not a terrible place, but it's not a great place either.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: There were definitely some building blocks there, which we'll talk about later.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: But by and large, the Steelers had this bad trend of not being able to evaluate talent.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: They drafted really well in the 70s, and of course they had built this incredible dynasty, but they they couldn't repeat that in the 80s.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: You had draft picks like uh Walter Abercrombie and Daryl Sims and John Rienstra and Aaron Jones and um uh who was the guy they drafted instead of Marino, Senior Sachs Steve, what was his name?
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Gabe Rivera.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: They had Whirley, whoops Worley.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just a just a bunch of uh bad draft picks.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Did they draft Brister?
6:20
SPEAKER_00: They probably did.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: They did.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: They did.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: He wasn't a high pick, though, like the rest of those guys, but yes, they still drafted.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh after.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, they're credited they drafted Neil O'Donnell, too.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: So they they did, and and and yeah, we'll we'll kind of get to that.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: They they it wasn't all bad.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't like it wasn't like Donahue was taking over a one in fifteen team or something like that.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: But what had happened in the 80s was personnel director Art Rooney Jr.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: had clashed with Chuck Noel on draft decisions, and so Dan Rooney makes the tough decision to fire his brother, but even after that, the team still doesn't do well in the personnel department, and it all really kind of comes to a head in Chuck Knowle's last year, 1991, because that year the Steelers have the 15th pick in the draft, they're reportedly targeting three players, and all three of those players immediately get selected right before the Steelers pick.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: So they have number 15, and apparently like 12, 13, and 14 were the three guys that they wanted.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: And so they panic, apparently, and this is again all reportedly, it's not like anybody would ever come out on record and say that.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: But apparently, what they do is panic and they select linebacker Huey Richardson from Florida.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Huey.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And he ends up being arguably the worst number one draft pick in Steeler history.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: He only plays in five games, and then Cower and Donahoe make the rather bold decision to cut him in training camp before his second season.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to to cut last year's number one draft pick, that's that's huge.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Almost like trading away your number one draft after two years.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say it's uh like I said, you're gonna see some parallels here with and that's very similar to what just happened with Kenny Pickett at the time of this recording.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of that's not my guy.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: So like that that happens with entrenched people.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I gotta prove myself right, so I'm gonna hang on to this guy.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Stuff that goes on.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: Donaho, so Omar Khan didn't draft Kenny Pickett, Donahoe didn't draft Huey Richardson.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: So it's easier to let go of that because, like you said, it's not it's not on me.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: You're not admitting a mistake.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know, at the time Donahue and Cower are hired, I think fans were certainly well, I I would say like cautiously optimistic that maybe we'll turn this around, right?
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Because there's some new blood in here, maybe we won't keep making the same terrible draft picks.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, between yeah, between Dan's brother and um Dick Haley, it it was pretty pretty bad.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: It was.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: And and so Donahue comes in, immediately makes an impression with his very first draft in 1992.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Listen to this draft, Steve, 92.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: First round, Leon Searcy, tackle from Miami, second round, Levon Kirkland, linebacker from Clemson, third round, Joel Steed, nose tackle from Colorado, and then way down in the eighth round, Darren Perry, uh defensive back from Penn State.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: So uh Leon Searcy becomes one of the better right tackles in football.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: And then the three defensive players all become starters for really the remainder of the decade.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: And two of them, Kirkland and Steed, are pro bowlers.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And Darren Perry was never a pro bowler, but he was a very good safety.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was good.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: So so right away, Donahoe's gotten four huge pieces in his very first draft.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: And then later that year, Donahoe signs a guy who had been a draft choice of the San Diego Chargers a year earlier, but he'd been waived at the end of the training camp.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: It's wide receiver Yancey Thigpen, who goes on to become the best stealers receiver of the era and a multiple-time Pro Bowler.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: He was good every other year.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: An odd number of years.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: You you wanted Yancey Thigpen in like 95 and 97.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And then he even did that when he went to Tennessee.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: He he did the same thing.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Like his feet, he always said his feet were not were messed up.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: He he did not have a great set of feet, and that that's what would hurt him.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he got he it was it was all injuries.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like he stunk in those even them were years.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: He just always something with his feet.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Like there was just something, I don't know if like he just, you know, genetically or what, but he always seemed like he always had like an ankle or a toe, or there was just something weird.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he was wearing the wrong shoes.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: And and I think because of that, we tend to forget how elite Yancy Thick pen was because when he was in those odd numbered years that you talked about, he's right up there with the best receivers of the era.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Chris Carter, Jerry Race, Tim Brown.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's not he's not a Hall of Famer like those guys because again, he couldn't sustain that success, but in that vacuum of just that one or two years, he was he was as good as any of those guys.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: He really quarterback he played with was McNair.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the other thing.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: He didn't have uh he didn't he didn't have Steve Young throwing to him or or any of those other guys.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: So uh but hey, I mean how about that for a debut for Tom Donahoe?
11:19
SPEAKER_02: And and that first Donahoe Cower team wins the AFC Central.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And and to be fair, those four draft picks and Yankee Thickben uh didn't win then the division.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: What everybody forgets and what I kind of alluded to earlier is that the Steelers actually had a semi-okay team before Cower and Donahoe came in.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Knowles, Chuck Knowles' final three seasons were nine and sevens make the playoffs, nine and seven just barely missed the playoffs, and then seven and nine.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: So they weren't a bad team.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Again, they weren't like a four and twelve or three and thirteen.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: They were just a team who couldn't quite get over the hump.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: And they already had some key pieces like Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Eric Green, Barry Foster.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Who'd be good?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: 1200 yard rusher sit the bench is probably a poor decision.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: So so not necessarily the best use of talent, but they had those guys.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: All those guys were drafted prior to Donahoe being the general manager.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh although, as we said, you know, Donahue was involved in drafting those guys as well, just not the guy leading.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: If you remember too, Chuck Knoll at the end there retired, he said, I just can't coach these guys anymore.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I I think there was some of that.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he he just couldn't relate to whatever you know was going on in the locker room.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and Cower comes in and does a good job coaching, and Donahoe again comes in and and starts making these great additions.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: And going into the next season, 1993, the Steelers had this young, promising team.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Donahue's looking to build on it.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: One one huge area of need going into that year's draft was at the cornerback position.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: And there's something that happens in the 1992 playoffs that really highlights a glaring weakness there, Steve.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: I know you remember what that was.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: Third and Sammy.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was Rod Woodson.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: Rod Woodson and DJ Johnson are the starters, but they don't really have any depth.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And Woodson, did he get hurt in that playoff game?
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he broke his hand, I do believe.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: And and that killed them.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: They were playing against the high-flying Buffalo Bills of that era.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Who had come back the week before from the largest deficit in NFO history.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you weren't going to cover Andre Reid and James Lofton and company with uh the Sammy Walker.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Sammy Walker was a guy they had drafted at uh in 91.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: They they had also signed Richard Shelton, who as we talked about in our players episode, yeah, but he wasn't he was a he was like a solid player.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't yeah, he wasn't a superstar.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: He was like a Chris Oldham, like a like a nickelback.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they just didn't have good depth.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: And and that year '93, DJ Johnson, he's in the final year of his contract, so the Steelers needed a cornerback, and that's what they took in the first round from Colorado.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: They took Deion Figures.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: And Deion Figures does not become, unfortunately, a great cornerback.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: But ironically, way down in the sixth round, the cornerback that they get from Western Carolina does become a really good player for the Steelers, Willie Williams.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: So they get they get him in the sixth round, and then in the second round, they draft a teammate of Deion Figures who does become a star.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: That's linebacker Chad Brown, who becomes really good.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: He's very good, yeah.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Very good.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: The third and fourth rounds net wide receiver Andre Hastings and defensive lineman Keen Henry, both very serviceable players.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Battle of Hastings.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: I just remember that from Chris Burman.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Chris Burman.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: So, so uh let's let's go back just for a minute, talk about the linebacking unit.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: Because remember, the Steelers played this 3-4, which was rare.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Most teams played a 4-3 at that point.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: And Donohoe's first two drafts net two inside linebackers, Chad Brown and Levon Kirkland.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And then Donohoe had signed Kevin Green as a free agent that year.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: So you pair those three guys with Greg Lloyd, the guy that Donohoe had found toiling in obscurity back in 1987.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: And that's really what makes the core of that Steelers defense was those linebackers.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers do make the playoffs again in 93, although, as we detailed in our roller coaster Steeler episode, it's a rather uneven season.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: They fail to win a playoff game, but by 1994, they're ready to take the next step.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: In that draft, Donahoe takes two players on offense with his first four picks.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: In the first round, they take another guy from Colorado.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it was with Colorado back then.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did pick a lot of Colorado players.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they take wide receiver Charles Johnson, who um had one really good year, but but he had a lot of injury problems also.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh so he was he was decent, but not great.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Sadly, also no longer with us.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: He committed suicide in 2022.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: And then the third round, they get running back Bam Morris, who becomes a huge part of the offense for the next couple of seasons.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Bam Bam likes to uh yeah, cultivate things.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he's cultivating some some yards there.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh we'll talk about that later, too.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: They continue to stock up defensively as well.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: They get Brenson Buckner in the second round.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: He's a defensive tackle.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: He was pretty good, yeah.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, solid starter.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: They and then in the they had two third-round picks.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: They get I also get Jason Gilden, a linebacker in the third round.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that guy, that's a steal.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Who who has to wait a while to break into that already stealth starting linebacking court we talked about, but when he does, he becomes the franchise's all-time sack leader.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh and and then just for good measure in the fifth round, they get Myron Bell, another guy, safety, that ends up being a starter.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't bad, but he yeah, he wasn't quite good enough.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: He was like a good NFL player, but yeah, he wasn't Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he ends up being a starter, so for a fifth round pick, you can't complain about that.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: Um so so again, you can just kind of see this progression of pieces being put into place.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, one little piece at a time.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: Some guys are stars, some guys are just starters and serviceable, but it all kind of adds up.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And the 1994 season produces arguably the best defense I think the Steelers have had since the 70s.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Remember that Blitzberg defense in 94 was so good.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it was.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: I just don't think it's been as good since.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: I really don't.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: I think that was the best defense.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: 2008, that was pretty good defense.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: It was good.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was very good.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: I I just think 94 was better.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: I really do.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Really?
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Um Lamar Woodley and uh James Harrison?
17:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, man.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: I that was Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: I think Woodley and Harrison were better.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: What about you didn't have a Rod Woodson in 2008?
17:58
SPEAKER_00: You know Well, yeah, I mean Ike Taylor is criminally underrated, but he's not Rod Woodson, but yeah.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Neither is Deion Sanders, so go figure.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: It's it's a good argument.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Let's just say both were very good, and and 94 definitely a great defense.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Safety, though, is where it really I mean, Troy Palomal is way better than Myron Bell.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: It's not even close.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, Carnell Lake, though.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, but and then who was the other one?
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Um uh Darren Perry?
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it would have been it would have it wouldn't have been Myron Bell at that point.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean Lake and Perry and and Troy and Brian Clark.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: So Brian Clark's better than than uh Darren Perry.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh again, you could go up and down.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: I I I I I I th I will agree to disagree with you on this one.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: I think 94 they had a better I think they won games with their defense in 94.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: So so uh really the problem in 94 was that the offense wasn't as good.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have Ben Rothelsberger.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: You put Ben Rothelsberger on the 94 team, he got something.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, Ben Rothelsberger was like, what, five years old?
19:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he probably wouldn't have been so good at that point.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: The uh the what happens that you you you know, it's it's funny that you brought up 2008 because a very similar thing happened in 2008.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: What happens is they get into the AFC championship game against San Diego and the defense falters.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: The defense gives up a huge play late in the game to Tony Martin, just like the defense gave up a huge play late in the game to Larry Fitzgerald.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh but in 1994, like you said, without a guy like Ben, the offense is unable to bring the team back.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Ben Ben Rothelsberger would have been 12 years old in 1994.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe maybe he could have won that game.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: So so that's a disappointing end of that season.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: And when they go into 1995, Donahue is committed to hey, the defense is in a good spot.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: We've got to improve the offense.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: And the 1995 draft, the first three picks are all offensive players, which is rare for the Steelers.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: So in the first round, they take tight end Mark Bruner.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good pick.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: In the second round, they take quarterback Cordell Stewart.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: I wonder how that's going to pan out.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: In the third round, they take guard Brendan Ste.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Bruner and Ste become immediate starters.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: They're they have very solid careers, like not Hall of Famers, but very solid animals.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Very solid.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Like a Darren Perry, like a Myron Bell.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, and remember, Steve, when we did the episode on Kevin Colbert, when we went through those drafts, we saw guys like Chris Hope.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Remember, like, there was all these like pieces.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Like Chris Hope was never a superstar.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Chris Hope was never in the Pro Bowl.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: But man, he was key to them making and winning the Super Bowl when you combine him with all the other guys that they had picked.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of like Mark Brunner and Brendan Ste.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: And then Cordell, you know, uh Well, he's the he was the wild card.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: He was definitely the you didn't know really know what you were getting with him.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and you forget how integral he was that rookie year to to the Steelers because they were using him in that slash role.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, when they added him to Ernie Mills and Andre Hasting and Yancy Thigpin, that was hard to cover.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: And and when the defense falters against Indianapolis in the AFC Championship game, just like they had faltered in the championship game the year before, this time the offense is able to bring them back.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers, after just four years of this new Donahue Coward regime, are going to the Super Bowl.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Ernie Mill's still one of my favorite wide receivers of the Steelers.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: He was very he was he was pre-Donaho.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: I should have mentioned him and the the list of guys that were kind of already there, but he was another kind of key guy.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: He was he had a great he had a good career after he left.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: He made a Pro Bowl with Carolina in Dallas, I think.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: He yeah, after he left.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: And Cordell, I I I watched recently uh like an NFL films thing on that ninety-five championship game.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: There was a drive, uh I think it was the Steelers touchdown drive in the first half where they had like three third downs and Cordell converted all three.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: And one or one or two of them were like on an option where they like put him under center, one was like on a pass.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: It just he if you look at his stats from that year, he you know, he didn't play a whole ton, he was kind of like an X Factor guy, but man, there were so many big plays he made.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: He caught a touchdown before the half, too.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that maybe was not a touchdown, but yes, yes, but but he did, you know.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: It's a touchdown, it counts.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: So, so yeah, just uh at this point, it's really that's the height of the Donahue era, 1995.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: He's he's widely viewed as one of the best, if not the best, general manager in football.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: What he's been able to do in only four years is amazing.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: And if you look at the 11 defensive starters for Super Bowl 30, because again, even though the offense was improved, the defense is still the heart and soul of the team.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: If you look at the 11 starters, Carnell Lake is a holdover from the Null regime.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: The rest of the guys were people that Donahue brought in.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: Greg Lloyd, who, as we said, Donahue was responsible for drafting even before he was the general manager.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: Ray Seals and Kevin Green, who Donahue had brought in as free agents, and then the rest of the guys are Donahue draft picks from the last four years Buckner, Steed, Kirkland, Chad Brown, Willie Williams, Boo Bell, Darren Perry.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: That's that's again, Donahue has his fingerprints over all of that.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: And then you add that to the pieces that Donahue had brought in on offense.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: And the 95 team is the single most complete team that the Stewarters have had since the 1970s, and now they're playing in the Super Bowl against the Dallas Cowboys.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Wow, just wow.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: There are only bright days ahead, right, Steve?
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Intercepted and remember to Brown has a shot and a touchdown.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Drown knocked out of bounds by John L.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Williams.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: And Brown again, not even near the play.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: The ball thrown right to him.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I like the ominous music, too.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes, very ominous.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And you forgot about the key John L.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Williams signing from Seattle.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because who would have been there to push Larry Brown out of bounds at the three or name if John L.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: Williams wouldn't have been there?
24:51
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't bad.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: He was just like a veteran at the end of his career.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: He had a really good career.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: He did.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: So that game, Super Bowl 30, it's it's a crossroads for that 90s era Steelers, especially for the offense, which had finally just come into its own.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: Because that offseason, they lose their starting quarterback, O'Donnell, they lose their starting running back, Bam Morris, and their starting right tackle, Leon Searcy.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: Then on defense, they lose Hall of Famer Kevin Green.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And Morris, as Steve kind of alluded to earlier, was arrested on cocaine charges.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: But O'Donnell, Green, and Searcy were big money free agent defections.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: And this really starts a pattern under Donahue where the Steelers draft or sign a player, work really hard to develop them, integrate him into the scheme, and then lose him once his first contract is up.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: And that's something that you didn't really ever see happen during the Kevin Colbert era.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Steelers were consistently able to lock up their core players like Ben and Heinz Ward, Troy, Harrison, Ferrier, Hampton.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it was a little more clear-cut with some of those guys, though.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, like definitely like Ben and Troy are like no-brainers.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Like O'Donnell?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: He was okay.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't think anybody's gonna say Neil O'Donnell is gonna go to the Hall of Fame if he stays here.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, do they maybe make another Super Bowl if he stays here?
26:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, then they use up all their money, and who can they, you know?
26:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it it it yeah, those decisions aren't easy for sure.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: And and you're right, like Ben is a no-brainer, Tori's a no-brainer.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: But what about, you know, when they re signed Ike Taylor or when they re-signed?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's when I thought it started to get a little they went on the little other side of that.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: I remember Dan Rooney at the time even saying that that, like, you know, unless we find like, you know, oil or something on the north side, we're gonna have trouble paying all these pla people.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, but they but that was again, it was just a different mentality.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: And in the 90s, it was just kind of like, well, this guy's gonna be a free agent, nothing we can do but watch it.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: It was very baseball like.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, I felt like it was the same thing that happened to the pirates was happening to the Steelers.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: I remember the time.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Especially when O'Donnell left.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, not that Neil O'Donnell and Barry Bonds have anything in common except for they're both professional athletes, but I mean I don't know.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: It's it just had that feel to it.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: And in Donahue's defense, the salary cap was a very new thing at this point.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: I think they had instituted that in '92, '91, '92.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: It was right around the time Donho got hired.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: And it was a little bit of Wild West.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: And you did see other good teams lose key players.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you definitely saw teams like way overpaying for free agents.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Like some team in the nation's capital.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Good example.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: But but I mean, it was like the Steelers lost everyone.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: And I remember at the time like trying to rationalize it, and I remember thinking, well, like very few of the guys we lost had the same success elsewhere.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, O'Donnell was stunk on the Jets.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: He was a huge bust.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Yancy Thig Ben, like you said, got injured a lot when he went to the Titans.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Um he did have a couple good years.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Chad Brown was probably the biggest, the guy that had the most success that last.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: But a lot of other guys didn't.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Ray Seals was a good example.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: He had double-digit sacks for Pittsburgh.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Did nothing in Carolina.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: But but see, so that was my justification at the time.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: But looking back on it, that didn't really matter because it still made our team worse.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if football's kind of funny like that.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: There's guys that fit in perfectly on one team of one coach, and then when they go somewhere else, they don't fit in.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: And it is kind of like different.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if the other coaching staffs just know how to use them or they just don't quite fit in in their scheme, or I I've seen that happen.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, now if you get a great player like Aaron Donald or you know, Joe Montana, it you know, it doesn't matter.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: You'll put them anywhere and they'll be fine.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: But it seems like with some of the other players that it does.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: And and O'Donnell's a good example, like you said.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: That's hard because he's not Joe Montana, but you just got to a Super Bowl with him.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And he's like a mediocre quarterback, and like that was when it was transitioning.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, he reminds me of like a Mark Rippin' or like uh Ha Stettler or somebody like that.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I mean it just he was just kind of like that guy.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Like he wasn't a great quarterback, but he wasn't a bad quarterback.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: So tough decisions for sure.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Easy to easy to play Monday morning quarterback on that.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: But it was just and if it was just O'Donnell, that's one thing.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: But it's like they lost every every time there was a free agent, it's like, okay, that guy's gone.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: I think losing who was the tackle, and then they lose Sear Cersei.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's that same offseason they lost Cersei.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: We're actually going to talk about that because that was That was a tough one, yeah.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: That was a really tough one.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: So we'll actually get into that.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh also at this time, there's a rift starting to develop between Donahoe and Cower.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: And no one really knows when it starts.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Like those two guys haven't written tell all books or anything like that.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh Ed Bouchette, who covered the Steelers for decades and probably has the most inside steelware information of any uh steeler media person, he says that the he says things were good for about two years, but then started like very slowly deteriorating.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh so we head into the 1996 draft with a boatload of missing pieces because, like we said, CRC, Bam Morris, Neil O'Donnell, Kevin Green all gone.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh, how will Donahoe address this?
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, the big thing he does on draft day is swing a trade with the Rams for a supposedly washed up running back named Jerome Bettis.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is a great trade.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the best moves.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Historic.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I agree.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: I I mean it was huge.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: And and it's it's a good thing because because uh the rest of the 1996 draft is hot garbage.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Is this the Jermaine Stevens draft?
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so losing Leon Searcy, like like we said, uh that may have hurt more than any other free agency defection during this decade, because the Steelers will spend the rest of the decade wandering in the right tackle wilderness.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: And the first thing they try to do to address it is they draft this kid, Jermaine Stevens, out of North Carolina AT.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: And my God, is he bad?
31:17
SPEAKER_02: He was he was supposed to be a bit of a project, which was okay because they had that uh Justin Strelzik, who was kind of like their jack of all trades offensive lineman, who could kind of keep the seat warm for maybe half a season until Jermaine Stevens was was ready, but he never was ready.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: And and Stevens ultimately gets cut on the first day of camp a few years later when he shows up so out of shape that he cannot complete a running drill that the other 79 players in camp all complete with ease.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: And that's the end of Jermaine Stevens.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: And the rest of the draft, like we said, hot garbage.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the second pick doesn't come into the third round because of the better trade.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: They take inside linebacker Steven Conley.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, he was awesome.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he never starts a single NFL game.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, just for fun, two inside linebackers that were still on the board at the time.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: You have uh Hall of Famer and five-time All-Pro Zach Thomas was on the board, and then you have one of Steve's favorite all-time players, three-time Super Bowl champion Teddy Brewski, also on the board when they took Stephen Conley.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And I know you hate Teddy Brewski, but I still would have taken him over Stephen Conley.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: But maybe I would have liked him then.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: I just remember him jumping on like uh that running back from Carolina's head that one time that was like in the Super Bowl and nothing being called.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, okay.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Guess you're allowed to do that now.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Steve's a huge Patriots fan, by the way.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: Loves the Patriots, thinks they're the greatest.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Stewart's win the division in 1996, uh, even though they had lost a bunch of players, and that was yeah, we did a whole episode on that season as well.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh and they kind of unfortunately limp into the postseason and they lose in the Fog Bowl game in the playoffs in Foxboro to the aforementioned doing with Patriots.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: And the day after the game, two reporters approached Tom Donahoe asking about the game, and he makes this quote.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: He says, It was a very disappointing game, obviously.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: It's probably not reflective of the team we have.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: For whatever reasons, we didn't play very well, we were flat.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: End quote.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: And that causes a big stir.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: When Cower hears about that, he's furious.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: The next day at a news conference, someone asks Cower about it, and he very tersely says something to the effect of, I don't know, ask Tom.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Tears?
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Was he tears?
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Cower used to say tears.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: So that that kind of seems to be the first public display of there being a rift.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, and and again, nobody really knows how bad this rift is at the time, but you can tell that Cowers angry and the Donnaho said they were fighting because they got blown out in that fogball game.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't even a game.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Like the second play of the game, Curtis Martin goes for like 60 yards or something.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: It was it was bad.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh so the Steelers, a little bit of a step backwards.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and now this is where they really need to restock, right?
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Because Rod Woodson's gone, Chad Brown's gone, uh, Ray Seals, Ernie Mills, Gary Anderson, all these guys had left because they've they've committed to the strategy of letting everybody walk in free agency.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: So they have to replace those guys in the draft.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: And like we said, 1996, the the better trade was amazing, but it's a terrible start otherwise.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And then guess what?
34:38
SPEAKER_02: 1997, not a whole lot better.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: In that draft, in the first round, they take Cad Scott, cornerback out of Maryland.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, he was amazing.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay he was mediocre.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Mediocre to poor.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know we all hate Chad Scott.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't think he was as terrible as we all remember.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: He just wasn't a first-round caliber star.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: Right?
35:00
SPEAKER_02: If he was a fifth-round pick, we all wouldn't, I don't think, would have paid him as much.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: He's somewhat serviceable, but yes, it's definitely not great.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: And then in the second round, they take wide receiver Will Blackwell.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: That's a complete bust.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Isn't he the one that got hurt in the uh football game on uh on the beach?
35:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember that.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh or maybe it was Blackman.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, black, blackwell, black men, I don't know.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: But I remember there was a wide receiver the Steelers had that had like a pretty decent like rookie year, and then he got hurt in like the rookies game on they played like a game on the beach, and it was like, oh, that's the end of his career.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, it wasn't well blackballed because he did not have a good rookie year or second year or third year.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's a second round pick.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: And the third round, probably realizing even at this point that Kamane Stevens wasn't going to work out, the Steelers take tackle Paul Wiggins, who appears in a grand total of one game for the Steelers as a rookie, and then the next year gets suspended for using Andrew.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: And do you know the reason he took Andrew, Steve?
36:06
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Because it's 1998, and he sees this guy named Martin McGuire who takes Andrew hitting 70 home runs, and he's like, hey, if it can help him hit Tingers, I bet it can help me block Ray Lewis.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And he's shocked to learn that the NFL has banned Andrew and he's in violation of the roles.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: He says, quote, it's unfair that he's a professional athlete, and I am too, and he can take it and I can't.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, you see, you play football and he plays baseball, and I I I don't know what to tell you.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Different leagues have different roles.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I maybe you should look into that before just taking stuff.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, he gets waived a few weeks later, so that doesn't work out.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: And and probably that 97 draft, the best pick that they had was Mike Vrabel, uh, but not for us.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: That works out well for us.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: It works out well for the Patriots.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's two bad drafts in a row, and the free agents keep leaving.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh, that being said, in 1997, the Stewart still have many of those key pieces from earlier in the decade.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: They're also banking on young quarterback Cordell Stewart to be their new starting quarterback rather than just slash.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: And boy, what a season Cordell has in 1997.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: We talked about that in our Cordell episode that we did.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: He lights up the NFL, he takes the Steelers all the way to the AFC championship game.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: And this is really kind of like the last gasp for the 1990s, because after this, the years of free agent losses and bad drafts really start catching up after the Steelers lose that 97 championship game to Denver.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh in 1998, Donahoe does hit probably, I would say, the biggest home run of his career with the first round pick.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: He takes Alan Fanica, the guard out of LSU, ends up being a Hall of Famer, key to winning the Steelers winning a Super Bowl years later.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: And two other guys that go in that draft are also keys to later Super Bowls, Heinz Ward and Deshey Townsend.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're they were the only guys from that draft that survived to the Super Bowl team.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Fun fact.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: So those were really good picks.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: The the the problem is that like Heinz Ward and Deshey Townsend, they're they're later round draft picks.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh and and the guys that are supposed to be like the help us now picks, like the second and third round picks, are busts.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: They take Jeremy Statt in the second round defensive end, and Chris Conrad, another tackle, in the third round.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: And and again, Chris Conrad is a right tackle.
38:37
SPEAKER_02: Guess how many games he starts?
38:38
SPEAKER_02: Paul Wigan started one.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: Guess how many Chris Conrad starts?
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Zero.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Zero.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, they just couldn't find a tack.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Whoever was like scouting the offensive line should have been fired.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's like we said, this is losing Leon Cersei was so killer because it was just one bad right tackle pick after another.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: And and like we said, this is when it starts to catch up because 1998 marks the first Steeler team under Cower to miss the playoffs, and it's quite the spectacular fall.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: That team is seven and four on Thanksgiving Day, loses to the Lions on the dumbest controversy in the history of sports, and then doesn't win a game for the rest of the season.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: So uh the other thing that happens is that Cordell badly regresses, culminating in the infamous uh the benching in Tampa, yeah.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Yep, crying on the sideline incident in Tampa that we talked about in our Cordell episode.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: So now it's it's like another crossroads because on one hand, this looks like a team that has a lot of holes.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: On the other hand, if Phil Lockett doesn't botch that coin toss, maybe we're in the playoffs that year.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, right?
39:47
SPEAKER_02: You should look at it that way.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: So going in going into 1999, the Steelers really need Tanahoe to work his magic again because it's been a couple years in a row, things are starting to fall off.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: And one of the most barren positions on the team at this point was wide receiver.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Steve, here's a good trivia question.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Who was the Steelers' top receiver in 1998?
40:10
SPEAKER_00: 98?
40:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'll give you a hint.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Gone are Yancey Thigpen, Ernie Mills, Andre Hastings, and Charles Johnson.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: They've all left via free agency.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: In 1998, Bobby Wagner, I don't know.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: The linebacker for Seattle?
40:25
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: It's Courtney Hawkins.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that guy.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: The immortal Courtney Hawk Courtney Hawkins.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: And and so again, like we said, Thick Ben Mills, Hastings, CJ.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: Those guys are all gone.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: And Dono has has drafted the likes of Will Blackwell and Jaheen Arnold, and those guys aren't working out.
40:45
SPEAKER_02: And he's signing, you know, guys like Courtney Hawkins.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: It's it's just not the same as it was.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: I forgot about Jaheen Arnold, yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: That guy, that guy sucks too.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: He yeah, he he was like one of those guys that was really good in training camp and never really could translate that into the regular season.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: I think also he got injured one time, unfortunately.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: I think he took a shot from Lee Flowers in like a practice.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that that sidelined him for a while.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: So he had some bad luck.
41:11
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, just point is none of these things were working out.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: And so Donahoe is determined in this 99 draft to get a receiver in the first round, and and he has one of his highest picks that he's ever had, number 13, because again, that was the first time the Steelers have missed the playoffs.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: So he has a high pick, and lucky for Tom Donahoe, there are two stud wide receivers in this draft: Tori Holt from NC State and David Boston from Ohio State.
41:39
SPEAKER_02: But not so lucky for Donohoe.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: Both of those guys get drafted before number 13.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: So at this point, Bill Cower says, you know what?
41:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, those wide receivers are wide receivers are off the board.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: We've got to draft Javon Kurse.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: It was this defender that was so freakishly talented that his nickname was literally the freak.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's who Cower wants to draft.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: But Donahoe says, no, we have to take a receiver, hell or high water.
42:05
SPEAKER_02: So he gambles the pick.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: Troy Edwards on a 5'10 wide receiver named Troy Edwards.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a huge mistake.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: Kurse becomes the defensive rookie of the year and helps lead the Titans to the Super Bowl.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, Troy Edwards pretty much does nothing for the next three years, except he does make that really costly error in the 2001 AFC Candy Kick game.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: So there's that.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: He's got that going for him.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: But hey, that's okay.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: That's the first round.
42:33
SPEAKER_02: What about the second round?
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, guess who else the Stewards have lost that offseason to free agency?
42:39
SPEAKER_02: All-time great safety, Carnell Lake.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, is this the infamous Scott Shields pick?
42:45
SPEAKER_00: It's Scott Shields.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Scott Shields was always kind of an enigma to me.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't slow, but he wasn't fast.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: It was weird.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like he could run fast, but just it took him like 10 steps to get up to full speed, which is a problem in football.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: So that doesn't work out.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: So that's a second round.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: Okay, now in the third round, time to once again attempt to address that right tackle position.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: And remember, Dono has drafted a right tackle in the first three rounds for three straight years.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: And he's 0 for 3.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: So it's time to start stop time to stop messing around, right?
43:21
SPEAKER_02: Time to swing for the fences.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: Steve, have you ever heard of the Outland Trophy?
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this guy.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's horrible.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: This is the guy from UCLA, isn't it?
43:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but do you know what that trophy is?
43:32
SPEAKER_02: It is the guy from UCLA.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the best offensive lineman in college football.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I thought that too.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: But I was wrong.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: It's the best lineman.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so it could be defensive or did Aaron Donald win?
43:45
SPEAKER_00: I think he did win that.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: I think he may have.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, it's the best lineman, period.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: And who wins the Land Trophy in nineteen ninety eight?
43:53
SPEAKER_02: It's a tackle from UCLA named Chris Ferris.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that guy.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that was.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers take him five.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Finally, finally, Steve, our issues at right tackle are solved.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's too good to forget the immortal Chris Ferris, yes.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: I'd rather take in Dion Ferris, the uh singer.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Arguably, Chris Ferris is arguably a bigger bust than any of those other three guys because at least Jermaine Stevens, Paul Wiggins, and Chris Conrad saw the field.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Ferris never even once suits up for a live game.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: He never even gets a uniform on.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you think this started to become a thing between Coward and Donahu at that point?
44:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess it's not like these guys got cut and went somewhere else and had a lot of success, so maybe not.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: I uh yeah, I mean that that's the that's the hard thing to determine all this.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: Like like we said, obviously there was a rift.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: And when did it start and when did it escalate?
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that that fog bowl game, you could see a little bit of public display of it, but you didn't really see that.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: How are you you know, you're not you're not there in the draft room, you're not there talking when they're talking about personnel decisions and everything that's gonna be media-faced, except for that one thing with the the playoff game in New England.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: Everything that's gonna be in front of the media is gonna be, you know, hey, we're all on the same team and we're coming out, you know, supporting each other.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: So I don't I don't know.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: I that's a great question that I I don't know that we'll ever know the answer to.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: But man, this whole thing with the right tackle, that that was just disastrous.
45:24
SPEAKER_02: And that didn't help.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, Cordell, like we said, Cordell had regressed and not giving him a right tackle and just going through one after another after another.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh Steve, I'll give you$100 right here on the spot if you can tell me who ends up being the starting right tackle for the 1999 Steelers.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: What the heck?
45:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm not that good.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: Anthony Brown.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: I'd have to Google him to even know if he is he still in football.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Did he have a career?
45:55
SPEAKER_02: I think I think he might have been a free agent that they signed from.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: I want to say like Cincinnati or something.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: But but I mean they had drafted four right tackles in the previous four years in in those top three, like those day one, what would be called today, day one or day two picks.
46:10
SPEAKER_02: And none of those guys worked out, none of those guys are starting.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Like you think that's going to be a problem.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: You think at least one of the four of them would have been good enough to start?
46:18
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: They're all they're all complete busts.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Now, so so those are your three picks.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: You're you're you're you know, Troy Edwards, Scott Fields, Chris Ferris.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: To be fair, that draft isn't a total loss because the Steelers do get two guys later by the names of Joey Porter and Aaron Smith, you may have heard of.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh and and you could also argue like if they drafted Javon Kurst, would they have taken Joey Porter?
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Right?
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Because they they probably wouldn't have.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: And Javon Kurst, as good as he was, that first couple of years, he he couldn't really sustain that.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: So he got hurt.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: So maybe it all worked out for the better, but in 1999, when they really desperately needed to improve, they don't do it at all.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: And not surprisingly, that season, the Steel Rs are terrible.
47:02
SPEAKER_02: At the time of this recording, the 1999 season is still the worst season of either the Cower or Tomlin eras.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: Did they have what'd they have?
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Six wins?
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Five and wins.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: Six uh six, I believe.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: But but they they were five and three, and then they lost almost every game except one.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was it was a it was quite a collapse.
47:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh and at the end of that season, things do come to a head between Cower and Donohoe.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: In in Dan Renew's autobiography, he says that Cower was had barred Donaho from attending coaching meetings because he thought he was a spy.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: And he thought Donahoe was sabotaging him.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh Donahoe thinks that he'd given given Cower talent, but he couldn't coach them up.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: So maybe maybe Donahoe thinks, hey, these right tackles is not their fault.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: It's Cower can't coach them.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: There's reportedly like zero trust between the two guys.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: That 1999 season ends with a very ugly home loss to the Titans that Steve and I attended together and sat through miserably.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh after that game, uh Cower goes in front of the media and he states that boldly that there will be no coaching changes on his staff.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: And everybody kind of saw that at the time as like a direct middle finger to Mr.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: Rooney.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people just expected an announcement that Cower was going to be fired.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Because obviously it was a terrible season.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: And then for him to go out there and be like, hey, no coaching changes, well, it's not really your call.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: You don't own the team.
48:35
SPEAKER_02: And so everybody's like, okay, Cower's getting fired.
48:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, he knows he's getting fired, that's why he's coming out and saying this stuff.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: But instead, Dan Rooney issues a statement on January 12th saying that Cower and the coaching staff will be retained.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: And then two days later, the team announces that Tom Donohoe has quote unquote resigned.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: Kind of probably the same way that um Bruce Arians retired, right?
49:00
SPEAKER_02: So Art Rooney II says uh when he looks back on it, he said, quote, in our discussions, we said this isn't working, we've got to do something about it.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: Both men both men said, if I'm the problem, I'll resign.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: They both felt it was a problem, and the only solution was for one of them to leave, and then in the end, we felt that way too.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was that was a tough decision by Dan Rooney, and it did pay off.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Did pay off.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: It it did.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: It did.
49:31
SPEAKER_02: And it was it was it was tough because um again, Donohoe had built this great team.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: He'd been there for 13 years, been with the company for 13 years.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, exactly.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Um Donoho says years later, quote, they made a decision.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: I didn't think it was a fair decision, but it's water under the dam, and we've all moved on.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: I owe a lot to Mr.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: Rooney.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Everybody it's kind of this is like a happy ending.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: Like every there really is a happy ending to this story.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, everybody everybody ends up winning a Super Bowl that's involved with this.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: So that's a good point.
50:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's that's the end of the 1990s and the end of the Tom Donaho era.
50:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh as Steve alluded to, the Steelers hire Kevin Colbert.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to know how that worked out, check our our episode we did on Colbert's tenure, uh, which ironically also kind of follows a similar cycle, just over the course of 20 years instead of 10 years.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh it starts out with, you know, the team isn't very good, but they have some key pieces from the previous era that the general manager is able to build on and turn into a contender.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: But then by the end, he's basically back to mediocrity.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if the Omar Khan era maybe is starting down the same path as his two predecessors, but it's obviously way too early to say that.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but as Steve mentioned, you know, Colbert wins he he builds off of some of those later Donahue draft picks and he wins two Super Bowls.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh Donahoe becomes a general manager of the Bills and then later goes to work in the front office of the Eagles, not as a general manager, but he's still in their front office when they win a Super Bowl, so he gets a Super Bowl ring as well.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know, Steve.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: It was just time to it's just it was just time for him to go, I guess.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: It was the right decision, I think.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: In the I mean, if yeah, hindsight's 2020, it seemed to work out for everybody.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: So I that's so it is one of the few times we can say it really did work out for everybody involved.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: Although, like it looked bad for Tonaho, like, you know, at the end he built a a kind of a competitive team in Buffalo and then it all fell apart.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it never made the playoffs, but they I think I think what ended like the Steelers kind of ended him up there like when that 2005 season they lost with the third, you know, to the third string players.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: But that Steeler team was really good.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: And Buffalo wasn't bad, and then he just never could get them into the playoffs.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: But then he went to the Eagles and um, you know, he he he's uh he does something with their scouting or front office, so I don't think it's just a token job.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: So they won a Super Bowl with um you know Nick Foles and you know, hey, you know.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: I think he's retired now.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: I think Dono's officially retired.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: He is, and I believe still living in the Pittsburgh area, so good for him.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, hey, you know, it's just you know, sometimes it just doesn't work out at one place.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: And but worked out for Cower too.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: Cower ended up getting the Super Bowl, and you know, and like I said, everybody kind of comes out a winner in this one.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: So And do you do you do you agree that he and Colbert kind of had the same arc?
52:35
SPEAKER_02: Just you know, again, they both I don't know yet.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: Like like I think Colbert was in a different situation than Donahoe.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: Donahoe, they never won anything.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Like he wasn't like just trying to hang on to these veterans and get one more out of them.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think at the end of Colbert's, it was like, okay, we still got Ben.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: We're just trying to get one more for Ben, one more for Ben.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: I think the worst thing that happened was they didn't win one more for Ben.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: If it would have been this one's for Ben, like with you know, Art Rooney the you know, the second saying that, then I think the Steelers would have reset and you know, Colbert maybe goes away and retires too, and then you know, they they can have a true rebuild.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that set them back a couple years is you know, trying to do this win-one for Ben thing.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: And I I I I mean I've been pretty I mean we've been talking in the current state, you know, it's that I don't know.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Seems like this is more of a win-one for Tomlin kind of thing.
53:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean the current the current state again it's way too early to to say what where that's gonna go.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: But definitely like the end of Colbert, you're right, that is a difference where Colbert had a different motivation at the end of his tenure than Donahue had.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Donahue was just trying to you know get back to you know respectability there at the end.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: But I think I think they also both guys, like they, they it was like everything was like everything they touched was gold early.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, you had you had uh Colbert trades up for Troy Palamalu, he drafts Ben, he drafts, you know, he get he get gets guys off the scrap heap like James Harrison, right?
54:09
SPEAKER_02: And and that was similar to Donahue, gets Thig Penn off the scrap heap and drafts Kirkland and Searcy and and and you know Chad Brown, all these guys that were key.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: And but then by the end of it, it's like, man, you're drafting these terrible right tackles and Troy Edwards and Scott Fields, and then by the end of Colbert, he's drafting Devin Bush and other guys that didn't work out.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: So at least at least in that regard, it's just it it's like whatever magic they had just wasn't there anymore.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: And maybe I don't know, maybe it's just time to leave after a while when that happens.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess uh you know every job has its you know ebbs and flows, and you know, sometimes knowing when to leave is uh the key.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, gotta walk away from the blackjack table while you're st you're still up a few hands.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: I think Bill Belichick found that out the hard way.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's another yeah, that's a that's another good example for sure, coming back to the Patriots.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh so yeah, that's the that's the Tom Donaho era.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: Again, uh had its highs had and then had its lows and kind of kind of went full circle back to where where almost where it started with you know the Steelers being mediocre again, but definitely some good times and some good moves, and Tom Donohoe, I really um I think I think he'll be finally remembered in Steeler history, Steve.
55:27
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
55:28
SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, he's obviously a solid upstanding citizen, never did anything that was, you know, you don't hear anything weird like about him, except for he just just never could quite find that quarterback to get him over the top.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that was another problem is they had Cordell, and Cordell was kind of like a quarterback that was good enough to get you.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the Cordell episode, we said that he was good enough to get you the championship game, but he was not quite good enough to get you over the hump for whatever whatever reason, whether that was just due to his talent or the way the NFL was played back then, or they just didn't quite have another complimenting piece to help him out, whatever way you want to put that.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: It just it just seems like those 90 team 90s team were like one great player away.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: Like they just needed another great player on offense to help them over.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have Ben Rothelsberger.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: That's all I can say is they didn't win anything until Ben showed up.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, the Tom Donohoe's legacy is very different if Neil O'Donnell doesn't throw that interception, or if Cordell Stewart's able to continue kind of his first season trajectory.
56:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
56:38
SPEAKER_02: So you you're right.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: With with a quick in the end, it all does come down to quarterback.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, if he kept if he keeps Neil, do they win a Super Bowl?
56:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's say they dish out the Big Bucks.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: Do they win a Super Bowl?
56:51
SPEAKER_00: I I I don't know.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that you who won, you know, you look at the quarterbacks who won.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: It was Brad Favre, John Lway.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the last guy was like uh who's the guy for Tampa?
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Brad Johnson, Kerry Call, not Kerry Call, um, Trent Dilfer.
57:05
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
57:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, could Neil O'Donnell have been as good as those guys?
57:08
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: Who not in 99?
57:11
SPEAKER_00: Kurt Warner?
57:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're talking of what I just named like three Hall of Fame quarterbacks.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's fair.
57:17
SPEAKER_02: That's that's a good point.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: And again, one of those what-ifs we'll never know.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could you could also then you could get into another what-if branch of okay, they let O'Donnell go, but they they put that money towards Leon Circe, right?
57:30
SPEAKER_02: And then they don't they don't they don't waste all these draft picks on right tackles the next four years.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they pick up another quarterback somewhere that's unexpected or of uh or wide receiver that they badly needed, right?
57:42
SPEAKER_02: So it's like the the the again wasting four day one, day two picks on right tackles.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: Well you could you can miss uh that's where I think it holds true now with this stealer.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: You can miss on a first-round draft pick here and there, but the Steelers are entering that territory now where they missed on a couple of first-round draft picks.
58:03
SPEAKER_02: And it catches up a few years later.
58:04
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
58:05
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's it's just interesting to look back on that and see kind of the the trend.
58:10
SPEAKER_02: But again, I I love that I still love that era of Steelers football.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: All right, it's just a lot of things.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: It's the one we grew up watching, it's one we matriculated to, so right.
58:19
SPEAKER_02: All right, folks.
58:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for listening.
58:22
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58:26
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58:34
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