Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 18: Musician and teacher Arran Fagan

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My Favorite Things Episode 18: Musician and teacher Arran Fagan · My Favorite Things

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Fagan, thanks for being here.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to tell us a little bit about who you are currently?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I live in Portland, Oregon.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of like a jack of all trades and like outdoor stuff.
• 0:21
  So I do a lot of running at kind of an average rate and
• 0:25
  climbing at a average to
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: below average rate.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was still kind of am like a semi-professional musician.
• 0:35
  And then I'm currently a high school zoology teacher up in
• 0:39
  Vancouver,
• 0:39
  Washington.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's a semi-professional musician?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I get paid to play shows when I play shows,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: but it's rarer and rarer due to just the busyness of life.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not full-time touring anymore.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you have toured full-time.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'd shut that down real quick.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of music do you play for people who haven't heard your stuff?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I play folk music,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: usually about death,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: which is kind of a classic,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: which we're going to talk a lot about today.
• 1:16
  Actually,
• 1:16
  I was realizing as we went through the five,
• 1:18
  I was like,
• 1:18
  oh,
• 1:19
  they're all linked.
• 1:20
  Yeah,
• 1:21
  I'm looking at your list and I'm like,
• 1:22
  yeah,
• 1:23
  no,
• 1:23
  that's,
• 1:23
  yeah,
• 1:23
  okay,
• 1:24
  I see that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Should we get into it?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Your first one on this list for the show called My Favorite Things.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So these five favorite things you've had throughout your life.
• 1:36
  Number one is NPR's recording of the tallest man on earth set
• 1:41
  at the 2012 Newport Folk Festival.
• 1:46
  How old are you when this happens and where are you when you
• 1:49
  hear this for the first time?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am 20, no, I am, let's see, 2016, right?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, 2012.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like 15 at the time.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just turned 30 last year.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to turn 31.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, 15-ish.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like a sophomore or junior in high school.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I probably was watching YouTube and kind of found like Ryan,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think Mastro is his last name,
• 2:20
  but he did all these YouTube videos for Newport Film Festival
• 2:23
  and just did a ton of
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: recording.
• 2:26
  And then NPR did like a field office kind of thing where they
• 2:29
  did a bunch of videos
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: for Newport in the 2012s to 2014s.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I watched like all of them.
• 2:38
  and listened to every reporting and they did listen to all the
• 2:40
  interviews because
• 2:41
  they did like basically every year they do like a month of just
• 2:44
  Newport Folk
• 2:45
  Festival without basically turning it into like a full-end
• 2:49
  documentary so yeah I
• 2:51
  think that's how I found it obviously I was a fan of Toss Man
• 2:54
  stuff before then but
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: yeah
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sad at this point when you're getting this music,
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: when you're first hearing it and going like,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: this is about me?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why does it resonate, I guess?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 3:13
  I think Toss Man or Earth's music really resonates because it
• 3:17
  was taking what I
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: really loved about
• 3:20
  hearing music that my parents raised me on kind of almost in a
• 3:24
  way mixed with like
• 3:25
  the indification of things where it felt like less mainstream
• 3:30
  and it also felt
• 3:31
  really personal and it also like he's an incredible performer
• 3:36
  an incredible
• 3:36
  musician but he's also just like a dude kind of doing his thing
• 3:41
  and so it felt very
• 3:44
  like personal in the way that I was like I can do this like
• 3:47
  it's just one guy doing
• 3:48
  this thing and he's finger picking and he's writing sad songs
• 3:51
  and like there was
• 3:53
  definitely like a mystique to it where I'm like I want to be
• 3:56
  like him you know it's
• 3:57
  like he's got cool boots so I bought cool boots you know and
• 4:00
  and stuff like that
• 4:01
  he's like he's wearing skinny jeans I can wear skinny jeans and
• 4:05
  yeah he just like
• 4:07
  I think there was a big renaissance of like folk music in the
• 4:11
  early 2000s or mid
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: 2000s to like 2018-ish.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 4:16
  I feel like Mumford and Sons really kicked that off and the Oh
• 4:18
  Brother Where Art
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thou,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: bluegrass kind of sphere.
• 4:23
  And so I was kind of caught up in that full and Toss Man was
• 4:28
  really the bridge
• 4:29
  between like what I grew up listening to with my parents and
• 4:31
  then weirdly like I
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: felt like
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I came from like the Nine Inch Nails,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Rage Against the Machine,
• 4:38
  like middle school phase and tool to like somehow coming back
• 4:43
  into Tossman.
• 4:44
  I think this is songwriting and like the intricate guitar was
• 4:47
  just kind of a good blend.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So are you, that's interesting.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Rage Against the Machine in middle school.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm like, you were angry enough already, huh?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that's great.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: like it was definitely,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really know what I was,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:03
  it's middle school is like the time where you're figuring out
• 5:04
  who you are for the
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: first time,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: like you really have a personality that like is uniquely yours.
• 5:09
  And so it's like going to Hot Topic and picking out like a
• 5:12
  purple studded belt,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: but being like a total square was kind of a fun thing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: like I think Raising as a Machine,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: to get into that for a second,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: was like my first kind of taste of
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: of I don't know like yeah anger would be the right word but also like
• 5:33
  politicization I think like I watched I think Bowling for
• 5:36
  Columbine around that
• 5:37
  same time yeah and all the Michael Moore documentaries and so
• 5:42
  like I was like I'm
• 5:43
  I'm an anarchist you know it's like no you're like a middle
• 5:47
  schooler you know and
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: not doing anything very anarchy or punk rock in any way you know yeah
• 5:55
  Yeah,
• 5:55
  but Toss My Earth in a weird way felt very similar,
• 5:58
  but more emotional.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that was really a fun thing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would not have drawn a line between those two musical acts in any way,
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: except there's both guitars and singing,
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: really.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but if you listen to that Newport show, he's giving his all.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's not just singing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's screaming and giving everything.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like there is kind of a similar...
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like soul punch of some kind that is just in that recording.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like every song freaking rocks.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So 2012, you're 15.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are you already playing the guitar then?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 6:40
  I started in like seventh or eighth grade and then didn't
• 6:43
  really pick it back up
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: until high school.
• 6:47
  So like I'd started around that time and definitely could not
• 6:52
  play a single Tallest
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Man on Earth song.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, sorry, we're thinking 2012.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a sophomore junior in high school.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
• 6:59
  I'm playing the guitar at that time and definitely trying to
• 7:04
  learn how to finger
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: pick,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: trying to learn how to Travis pick.
• 7:10
  it was so hard because he's just like a freaking master and you
• 7:15
  know at 15 you're
• 7:18
  like I can do anything and I could not do anything you know
• 7:22
  like playing Hey Out by
• 7:23
  Outkast was like really hard on the guitar at the time which is
• 7:27
  like two chords
• 7:28
  when's the first or yeah when is the first time you were
• 7:33
  successfully able to play
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: a tallest man on earth song and do you remember what it was
• 7:40
  I would have to look up the song name because I can remember
• 7:43
  the guitar chords,
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like I walk around the river like it's easier than sand,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: whatever that song is.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Love is All?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that it's Love is All.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Love is All.
• 7:52
  That one I learned how to play because it was really a simple
• 7:55
  kind of E minor song.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: coming up to a G.
• 7:58
  I actually use a lot of his finger-picking stylings still to
• 8:02
  this day in a lot of
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: things I write.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I never kind of left that.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I don't use a pick.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do a lot of strumming stuff.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's mostly finger-picking.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like his influence is really the main kind of driver of that.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: But Love Is All is definitely the song.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: He had like a Jules Holland video doing Love Is All.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, oh my gosh, this tone is crazy.
• 8:23
  Like he's just throwing himself all over the stage for like a
• 8:26
  tiny little...
• 8:27
  you know sad quiet song and so he does that too in I think he
• 8:35
  starts he doesn't
• 8:37
  start the Newport Folk Festival session with it I should have
• 8:39
  it in memory at this
• 8:41
  point because I've heard it so many times but he does that in
• 8:43
  the show too it's
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: crazy and
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:47
  As a person who cannot play the guitar and thinks of people
• 8:50
  playing the guitar as
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: being just amazing,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: and then people fingerpicking the guitar,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: even more amazing,
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: and then fingerpicking the guitar and singing at the same time,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: how hard is that for you?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now for me, I don't have to think about it at all.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can play anything and sing over it and like not an issue.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But at first,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: like just trying to strum a chord or even finger pick anything,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: like just moving your three fingers,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: let alone all five or four or two was so difficult.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It would be...
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Rad
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a virtuoso in any way.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's always been just like thousands of hours of doing anything.
• 9:50
  That's kind of been all of the things I do is just me being
• 9:53
  really stoked about it
• 9:54
  and kind of having a hyper fixation for a long period of time
• 9:58
  to get average.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: what's motivating you when you're that young and you're like,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely going to learn to play the guitar.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like because girls or like?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, just not at all.
• 10:12
  yeah just wanting to create stuff like it was just like someone
• 10:16
  created this out of
• 10:16
  thin air and it's like magic you know it's so cool and I
• 10:21
  luckily had really
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: supportive parents and so they would just be like yeah
• 10:26
  Go sit in your room for like six hours and play the guitar and
• 10:28
  it's fine if the
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: volume's on loud,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: or they'd put me outside.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, go sit outside.
• 10:34
  And,
• 10:35
  you know,
• 10:36
  I played my first show to around 2012,
• 10:38
  if I remember correctly.
• 10:39
  And so like my dad drove me there and I played it like some
• 10:43
  like brewery gig or
• 10:44
  whatever outside and did a bunch of covers and stuff like that
• 10:47
  and kind of was
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: this is cool.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, like music.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: has always been the same.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's helped me figure out kind of the thoughts in my brain.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so like that's where creating is really,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: really nice is it's not therapy,
• 11:02
  but it definitely lets me kind of take all the things I'm
• 11:05
  thinking about and flush
• 11:07
  them out and kind of discover what I'm actually thinking about
• 11:11
  or what it actually
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: means.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the thing I try to say in my writing courses too.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like writing is not therapy, but it is therapeutic, can be therapeutic.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is the same way for your style of writing,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: but like I'll write something and then six months later it'd be like,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: that's what this was.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or that's what this means.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or, oh, I didn't even realize putting two to two together.
• 11:35
  Because sometimes like the way that I write,
• 11:37
  I don't write with like a pen and paper.
• 11:38
  Usually I'm usually like writing with a guitar,
• 11:40
  playing chords and just spitting things out.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I do the Jeff Tweedy style of songwriting, his big thing.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm not...
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: really actively thinking about it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I go back and I edit and stuff like that,
• 11:55
  but a lot of the time it's months later I realize what it was
• 11:59
  actually about
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: because I've tapped into whatever's in my brain that wants to be out.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 12:06
  I think maybe songwriting is a little more abstract for some
• 12:09
  people than the type
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: of writing I do.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting to think about.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's so many different ways to do it, too.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: is it works for me,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe that means I'm just a lazy songwriter,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: but it's worked for me so far.
• 12:24
  I feel like I write my best songs when I am less critical and
• 12:28
  just kind of able to
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: let it come out.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what, dude?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Good enough for Jeff Tweedy.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Good enough for you.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I got to say.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is the movie Her, which...
• 12:44
  I don't even remember what year this came out,
• 12:47
  but it feels like weirdly predicting the future.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: We are living right now.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see it in the theater?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I was allowed to.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I was old enough to see it in the theater.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I was 17 or 18 yet, but I could have been.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I remember watching it for sure on DVD and
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because it was the first movie that my,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: soon-to-be wife,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: as we just got engaged,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: saw together on a date back in college.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I saw this in high school with a different girlfriend, too.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know why,
• 13:29
  but this movie really just took a hold of my brain in a way
• 13:32
  that nothing had at the
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: time.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's definitely kind of a dude movie.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've been told by lots of people is...
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's about kind of a creepy dude who like at the time I was like,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 13:46
  this guy's just misunderstood and he's emotional and like he
• 13:50
  doesn't really know
• 13:50
  what he's doing and he's kind of bumbling through life
• 13:52
  searching for meaning.
• 13:53
  It's kind of like the into the wild-esque guy who doesn't get
• 13:58
  to go on an adventure
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: though to kind of find himself.
• 14:02
  But it really I think was just a fascinating take on like it's
• 14:06
  okay to love things
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: even if they're not
• 14:10
  going to love you back in the same way or even if they're not
• 14:13
  real like like there
• 14:14
  is emotional depth to things that are you know not not human
• 14:21
  and unfortunately a
• 14:22
  lot of that has come true and now I feel very opposite about it
• 14:25
  where I'm like I
• 14:26
  don't know if you should have an AI girlfriend you know when
• 14:28
  I've got students who
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: have those and and whatnot um
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's like I was talking to Emily,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: my girlfriend about this and she was like,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:39
  it's really sad how like his job was to write thank you cards
• 14:44
  and like I love you
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: cards for people.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now AI does that for people.
• 14:49
  And I listened to a whole podcast about it recently about how
• 14:53
  people are using it
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: more and more to write heartfelt emotions.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: to their loved ones like,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 15:00
  I write me a card to my wife of like 20 years of marriage or
• 15:02
  something like that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like, is that ethical?
• 15:06
  And so I think that movie really dives into that only because
• 15:11
  society has moved
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: into this like weird AI sphere.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to an extent, greeting cards always have been.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like where you're flipping through all of them.
• 15:23
  I'm like,
• 15:23
  this does not sound like something I would say to my dad for
• 15:27
  Father's Day.
• 15:27
  So maybe I'll just get a Snoopy card and write my own thing in
• 15:31
  it or whatever.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's interesting.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you get both.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're telling me you're not having AI write your wedding vows then?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hell no.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very anti-AI for the most part,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: except for like from a science lens,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: like it is being good for some science stuff,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm not,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it really kills creativity.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in the classroom,
• 15:55
  I'm really watching my students be less curious and work less
• 16:02
  hard and not to be
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: like a generational things.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I think kids are kids, but I do think that like AI is making
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do I say this appropriately?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it makes my incompetent co-workers less competent.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:23
  we all have incompetent co-workers and like there's people who
• 16:26
  think that I'm
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: incompetent probably at work.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not trying to like judge anybody.
• 16:29
  But I have noticed that like I feel like AI makes people more
• 16:34
  mediocre than we already all are.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:38
  By letting us get away with the places,
• 16:42
  the things we're already mediocre at and aiding that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying not to have an opinion about all of it,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: except for I'm a crusty old guy who's trying not to use it ever.
• 16:56
  I mean,
• 16:57
  I'm not trying to have a real public opinion about it,
• 17:01
  but yeah,
• 17:02
  no,
• 17:02
  I just...
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a nobody, so I can have a hot take, I guess.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right.
• 17:07
  yeah so the movie at the time you said it made you made the
• 17:12
  case that you could
• 17:13
  love something that doesn't love you back or isn't even real
• 17:16
  what is going on with
• 17:17
  you and it was 2013 was there a parallel there where you were
• 17:22
  like nah I have this
• 17:25
  cat who doesn't care if I live or die but hangs out anyway or
• 17:29
  like what is it
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: what's going on with you where you're thinking that
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that it was just one of those,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: as I was kind of growing into,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: my own,
• 17:44
  I really started to realize that there is a lot more depth and
• 17:49
  nuance to things
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: than I give myself and give my brain the allowance for.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, I just gave, like, a hot take about AI.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Realistically,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: someone's gonna be like,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: there's all these other ways that you can use it in a great human way.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so...
• 18:03
  I'm definitely a black and white person and that can get me in
• 18:06
  trouble sometimes
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: and it can also,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 18:09
  limit myself from maybe depth that I'm missing and so I think
• 18:19
  art specifically
• 18:20
  allows that gray zone that my brain struggles with to kind of
• 18:25
  access it more and I
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: really felt like that movie really...
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hold at my heartstrings in an emotional way and then also allowed my like
• 18:33
  analytical intellectual brain to kind of think about things in
• 18:39
  a way that I would
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: have probably dismissed.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know, normally.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I also just think, like, aesthetically, it's a beautiful movie.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love the collared shirt,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: no collared shirt thing,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: where it's,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: a collared button-up shirt that the collars have been cut off and,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: the colors are beautiful.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird and dystopian.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was probably one of the first,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: indie-ish films that I had seen,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: at that time that wasn't,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: a music documentary.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like it was really...
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Rad
• 19:29
  In a way,
• 19:30
  I feel like it kind of got things more right than like right
• 19:32
  now.
• 19:32
  Like maybe we're going too far in an extreme and we're going to
• 19:36
  balance back out with AI.
• 19:37
  I feel like we haven't really figured out what people are going
• 19:40
  to use AI really
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: for because it's so new.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:44
  like if it gives people meaning and like they find emotional
• 19:48
  love and security,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: that's great.
• 19:49
  But like,
• 19:51
  I don't know,
• 19:51
  you know,
• 19:52
  I think that's the thing is that the AI in her
• 19:57
  really was critical in the way that they thought,
• 20:00
  very emotionally mature.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:05
  you can say really anything to AI now and it'll just affirm
• 20:08
  your beliefs in that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably not healthy for anybody.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:12
  he would get in arguments with Scarlett Johansson's character
• 20:16
  and stuff like that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, yeah.
• 20:18
  yeah huh yeah interesting now I feel like I gotta rewatch it
• 20:23
  but I remember it I
• 20:24
  remember it leaving me with a I was just like oh man I don't
• 20:28
  know that was tough a
• 20:31
  little bit of a downer for me yeah that's fair number three on
• 20:37
  your list is a
• 20:38
  Typhoon album White Lighter yes where is Aaron in life when he
• 20:45
  discovers this album
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: or a song off this album
• 20:48
  I'm probably still in high school using Pandora to find like
• 20:53
  all my music that are
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube basically like,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: and Instagram wasn't what it was like 13 years ago.
• 21:00
  And so I feel like it really was YouTube and Pandora that I
• 21:04
  found most of my music
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: or like SoundCloud.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I probably was the song Young Fathers, which is off that album.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the second song on the track.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: and then I moved to Portland being like,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna come to Portland,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna play a lot of music,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna like,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: do all this cool stuff.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: first month that I'm in Portland,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I am working for the college radio station at University of Portland,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: KDUP.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I reach out to Typhoon on band, band camp being like, hey,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Rad
• 21:51
  White Lighter ended up being kind of like this album for me
• 21:54
  that was kind of my
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: like epic because it's about like what makes a good life when you have
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: circumstances that are for sure going to shorten your life.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: In the case of the album White Lighter,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: it's about Kyle getting Lyme disease,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: which is challenging in a huge way.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really existential.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really about like, how do you make a good life?
• 22:21
  And you can't change your decisions after things have already
• 22:24
  happened in your life.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't take anything back.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can only move forward.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I felt like that album was really beautiful.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then it just kept coming back.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would hear the album a ton.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: I got to see the show.
• 22:36
  and then I ended up being an intern for Tender Loving Empire
• 22:40
  who was their label at
• 22:41
  the time too in college and so I would like bike downtown
• 22:45
  Portland and like be
• 22:46
  stacking all of the White Lighter records and stuff like that
• 22:49
  in the headquarters
• 22:49
  and I just like I think about that album so often because there
• 22:54
  are so many I think
• 22:56
  it's very obvious that well actually I shouldn't say this I
• 22:59
  can't read into it too
• 23:00
  much but like it was very obvious to me that Kyle was still
• 23:03
  figuring out who
• 23:05
  He was and what was happening in his life and how to address it
• 23:07
  and how to handle it.
• 23:09
  And,
• 23:09
  you know,
• 23:10
  I would have to ask him,
• 23:10
  obviously,
• 23:11
  if that was right or not.
• 23:13
  But that's what that album felt like was a searching for
• 23:16
  meaning in a really
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: beautiful way,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: because it's so opposite of Toss Man on Earth.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's 11 or 13 members or something like that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So many instruments.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like indie rock to its core.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's choir arrangements.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a beautiful album.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Through all that story,
• 23:36
  how are you developing or what's going on in your musical
• 23:41
  career as your college
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: radio DJ to intern?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you still playing?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are you trying to play shows?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, every spring break I would do a little tour.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was playing shows at least a few times a month,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: trying to drive up to different towns and tour.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: This was where I started to realize that touring was possible.
• 24:04
  And so I was playing so many shows in Portland and trying to
• 24:10
  meet as many people as possible.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not in the hustle culture, just
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many musicians.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is so cool, you know?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would play everything and anything,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: from pizza shops to,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: backyard wine events to,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: actual shows.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 24:31
  I was definitely trying to mimic some of Kyle's songwriting in
• 24:34
  that but I'm also
• 24:36
  like one dude but I started playing with like an upright bass
• 24:38
  player and a cello
• 24:39
  player at that time sorry not cello a viola player at the time
• 24:42
  I now play with a
• 24:43
  cello player and so we were trying to do more intricate stuff
• 24:47
  but I kind of
• 24:49
  I made the mistake of like being a young kid who was really
• 24:52
  obsessed with the magic
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: of music and needed to probably learn the music theory,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: at the time.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't really have the technical chops,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: but I surrounded myself with good musicians,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: which was really helpful.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting to think about.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you go back and do it over,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: what would you,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: when you say you should learn music theory,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: are you like needing college courses in this or what?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think like I had a really great song,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: like guitar teacher growing up,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Saul Kruger out of Medford,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oregon,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: and he taught me how to songwrite,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: which was really incredible and I think worthwhile,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: but like
• 25:35
  you know he would be like oh let's practice you know notation
• 25:39
  and like let's think
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: about major and minor chords and let's think about like
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: All of this stuff.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, nah, I just want to like, it's magic.
• 25:46
  Like if I learn too much about the technical side of music,
• 25:49
  it ruins music for me.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I do think there is something about that sometimes.
• 25:54
  But then you hear like a really good musician who also knows
• 25:58
  how to play like a G
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: chord 17 different ways.
• 26:02
  You're like,
• 26:03
  oh,
• 26:03
  yeah,
• 26:03
  they're able to like truly access music in an even more magical
• 26:07
  way.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I would have probably gone back and tried to do that.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: When you say that musician,
• 26:14
  do you have somebody in mind when you say that somebody who
• 26:17
  knows how to play a G
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: chord?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is Andrew Bird one of those people?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Bird is,
• 26:22
  but I feel like there are some people that are so good at
• 26:25
  things that you're just
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's not reachable,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's not possible.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 26:31
  I feel like there's a band right now that's touring through
• 26:34
  that I just saw for the
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: second time,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: the band Flight,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: F-L-Y-T-E.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're a folk band from England, and
• 26:41
  They surround themselves with incredible musicians,
• 26:44
  but they also are incredible players.
• 26:47
  And so it's subtle folk music,
• 26:49
  but there is a lot more depth to the things that they do.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like Greg Ellen Isakoff does a good job of that too.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Laura Marlin,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: she's an incredible guitar player,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: but she makes it look so easy and it's very subtle.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting to think about.
• 27:09
  I think of Gregory Allen Isakov and I think like he just never
• 27:12
  lets his voice get very high.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's what I like.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It seems chill.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's as far as I've gotten into it, but like I'm a huge fan.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like I know you're a big Jose Gonzalez fan, right?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:24
  he plays guitar in a way that allows for other instrumentation
• 27:28
  to be added in a
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: unique way.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about the guitar lyrics and the song.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the instrumentation and like the production, which I think
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of songwriters who don't learn that type of theory,
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: it's harder to do,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: including for myself.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's been a practice since I've gotten older.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jose Gonzalez, also apparently a great, wonderful human being.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Nice guy, as far as I know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: On our death theme, should we move on to Some by David Eagleman?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just describe what the book is?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have read it, but I'd love to hear you talk about what it is.
• 28:11
  So the book Some by David Eagleman is 40 Tales of the
• 28:14
  Afterlife,
• 28:16
  told from...
• 28:18
  I guess fictional perspectives like there's no real religious
• 28:21
  theme to it there's
• 28:22
  no scientific theme but it's just kind of like what is the
• 28:26
  afterlife if we get one
• 28:29
  and each story is only about a page to two pages long which I
• 28:35
  really love about
• 28:36
  that and they really just are all written in such a brilliant
• 28:40
  way that they make
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: you think incredibly deeply about things and so like my favorite
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: S-U-M is the sum of all the things that you do in your life,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: but you replay them in the order of the sum of time that you did them.
• 28:58
  And so like,
• 28:59
  you know,
• 29:00
  like I've got a cup of coffee and it's like you drink
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: for as long as you drink, you know, the sum of that in your life.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: You use the bathroom for as long as you use the bathroom in your life.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you walk as long as you walked, but all at once.
• 29:13
  And I think there's something kind of fascinating about that is
• 29:15
  it really makes you
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: think about the time that you use and the time you waste,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: especially with like doom scrolling and being on my phone.
• 29:22
  I think about this all the time or I talk to my students and
• 29:25
  I'm just like,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: you have one life,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: and you should use it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: For whatever you want,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: but don't be a slave to the phone,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: or something that you don't want to do.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we all have to work.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: We all have jobs.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: We all have responsibilities.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's something inherently good about those things.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily think there's something inherently good about,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: doom scrolling on my phone for,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: 22 days of my life or something like that,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: that I don't get back.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that would be a very short amount, I think.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a big phone user, if that's all you're doing.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did the math once for how long people...
• 30:09
  Or I read this once about how long people spend in traffic or
• 30:12
  something in their
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: lives.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's multiple years if you live in LA or something like that.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just trying to think, at least that year, like...
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Would you rather stare at a wall?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: for that time.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can I have something to write with if I am doing that or draw with?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: What was your second one?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say my second story in that book is also one of the well,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: there's two,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: but one of them is you redo your life basically in the afterlife,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: but you only see the people that you ever came in contact with.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's no strangers.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's nobody walking down the street that you don't know.
• 31:13
  And I thought that that was a really beautiful thing too
• 31:16
  because like there's
• 31:17
  something incredibly profound about being surrounded by people
• 31:21
  at all times or when
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: you want to be surrounded by people or when you don't want to be.
• 31:26
  And so like if you go to the grocery store and you know the
• 31:28
  clerk or less and less
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: if you use the self-checkout,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: If all of those people that you don't know disappear,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: there's maybe like four people in the grocery store that you ever see,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: or know or recognize,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: depending on where you live too.
• 31:43
  Like I live in St.
• 31:44
  John's in Portland,
• 31:45
  which is like a little neighborhood.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I see a lot of the people
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: in my neighborhood over and over and over throughout the week.
• 31:52
  However,
• 31:53
  even then,
• 31:54
  it's probably condensed down into like 20 people,
• 31:56
  you know?
• 31:57
  And so there are thousands of people around me and thousands of
• 32:01
  lives that I don't
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: know that I could have the access to if I wanted to reach out.
• 32:06
  But also just being surrounded by strangers can be very
• 32:09
  comforting sometimes,
• 32:11
  in my opinion.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a cartoonist I follow, Avi Steinberg.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: He does some stuff for The New Yorker.
• 32:18
  A lot of times,
• 32:18
  but he has this one,
• 32:19
  he never,
• 32:20
  he's never turned it into a real cartoon.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a sketch he put up,
• 32:23
  but it was like this person sitting at a table with a cup of
• 32:27
  coffee and they're
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: just surrounded by like,
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's like a big,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: some public space,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: like maybe,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: maybe like a food court in a,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: in a airport or something like that,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: or a really busy coffee shop.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, finally some alone time, you know?
• 32:46
  he also lives in New York so but yeah it's like yes no I think
• 32:50
  there's something to
• 32:51
  that for sure like why do we go to a coffee shop and not talk
• 32:54
  to anybody to work
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know and like somehow we need that
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or like, you know, we both run long distances.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: there is something sometimes really nice about,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: you get your solitude on the trail,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: and then you see one person hiking,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: you can let your guard down for a moment of,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's kind of lovely to see a human,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: even if you don't know them at all,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: just to,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: smile or waver,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: not even look at them,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: just know that there's someone near you.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously there's some privilege in that of,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: what if that person's,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: going to do something to you,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:29
  I'd like to believe that like there is something comforting
• 33:32
  about being surrounded
• 33:33
  by strangers you know yeah in a safe space yeah for sure for
• 33:38
  sure yeah and then the
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: third one is um uh
• 33:44
  you know it's the thing of everyone wants to be turned you know
• 33:46
  what animal would
• 33:47
  you be if you could be an animal kind of thing and and it was
• 33:50
  fascinating with
• 33:50
  somebody in the book is basically like oh I want to be a horse
• 33:53
  and so their body
• 33:54
  starts to morph into the horse and like their brain starts to
• 33:57
  realize oh no I'm
• 33:59
  actually going to be a horse and so your brain starts to shrink
• 34:02
  and basically they
• 34:03
  lose the ability to you can't be a horse and have the human
• 34:06
  intellect or the human
• 34:08
  Brain and so your memories are gone you basically just turn
• 34:11
  into a horse and that's
• 34:12
  your new experience in your new in your new kind of reality
• 34:17
  yeah and so it's not
• 34:19
  like you're you're a horse and you know having your life as a
• 34:21
  human brain it's like
• 34:23
  no you just lost this beautiful kind of like it's incredibly I
• 34:28
  think special to be
• 34:30
  a person you know obviously it's incredibly special to be a
• 34:33
  horse too but like
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: there is something
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Rad
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Also escaping the food chain is pretty dope, I would say.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, my next life I want to come back as a blank.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, really?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, domesticated golden retriever?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: You'd probably be bored a lot, but yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be a dolphin.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: FYI,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: like literally everything,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: there's murder everywhere in nature,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: except for,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: if we're privileged enough to not be murdered.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, anyway.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you want to be a bug?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, really?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you realize that anyone driving by, like, you're done.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or like your lifespan is just very short, so.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so isn't David Eagleman, is he like a neuroscientist?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: He is, yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I found him through,
• 35:57
  I listen to a lot of podcasts and so I found him through the
• 36:01
  Radiolab podcast
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: because he was like a pretty frequent contributor.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he is a neuroscientist.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's like what I really liked about his book,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: though,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: is it's it's I feel like,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: we think about the afterlife,
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: usually if they like religion or science,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: those are the two things that pop up.
• 36:16
  And he was like,
• 36:17
  no,
• 36:17
  we're just going to do it from a completely fictional
• 36:19
  perspective.
• 36:20
  And he could have done it from a scientific perspective,
• 36:23
  but he he chose not to.
• 36:24
  And I thought that was actually kind of beautiful and the right
• 36:29
  choice for that
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: book because it's just a lovely book.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's probably also like,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to sell some books and the religion one is taken,
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: science one kind of taken too.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just have fun and see where it goes.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a fascinating book.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you reading that book?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you reading like three at a time?
• 36:49
  Are you like kind of taking it slow and reading one at a time
• 36:52
  and processing?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: When I first got it, I could only handle about three at a time.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then...
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: When Emily and I started dating,
• 37:01
  I brought it back and we would read One a Night together and
• 37:05
  then talk about it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really fun.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: I actually,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: it was a blast because it would be like,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: what do you think about this perspective on this?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: and everyone has different perspectives and,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: and so that's been really lovely.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's also such a brutal book in a way because,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: you are thinking about dying in such,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: a...
• 37:27
  direct way that like it is kind of a hard like I'm gonna read
• 37:30
  this book and then
• 37:32
  talk about it for 30 minutes and then go to sleep you know yeah
• 37:37
  I'm curious like if
• 37:38
  you know since I don't have a family but like if you do you
• 37:41
  know when your kid gets
• 37:41
  old enough maybe reading that book with him or reading him with
• 37:45
  your wife I'm
• 37:46
  curious like how it would balance you know I haven't even
• 37:51
  thought about that I'm
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: kind of like
• 37:55
  No,
• 37:55
  I'm excited to watch Star Wars with him,
• 37:57
  but that's still years off,
• 37:58
  you know?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some is probably after Star Wars, you know?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say maybe high school, junior senior, you know?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 38:10
  No,
• 38:10
  I'm more like just day by day at this point with a few months
• 38:14
  of foresight.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's something to think about for sure.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have it on the shelf, so we're good.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: So for your last,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: your fifth item,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: fifth favorite thing,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: we said,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: you said this may have to be a game time decision.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to pick one of these two books?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Rad
• 38:45
  I think they're both actually similar in a way if that makes
• 38:48
  any sense because
• 38:48
  they're about decisions and so I think Emily's rereading East
• 38:53
  of Eden right now and
• 38:54
  I've read it several times and I was so in the summers between
• 38:59
  college I found a
• 39:01
  job basically teaching on military bases or for the military
• 39:05
  and so they would like
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Semi-Radar Semi-Radar
• 39:27
  I was always a reader but I had definitely fallen off in high
• 39:31
  school and part of
• 39:32
  college and so this was after my first year of college I moved
• 39:35
  to Japan for the
• 39:35
  three months and I borrowed East of Eden from the library on
• 39:41
  base and it just blew
• 39:44
  my mind and being kind of like a stupid like 18 or 19 year old
• 39:48
  at the time I
• 39:49
  remember asking the librarian I was like hey is like I'm not
• 39:52
  gonna be able to
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: finish this before like
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I fly home or before I like travel a little bit,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: is there anybody I could buy it from the library?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, no, of course not.
• 40:06
  You know,
• 40:06
  and I also didn't know that everything on military bases has to
• 40:09
  be provided by the US.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: if I took that book,
• 40:12
  it would have to be shipped from the US to Japan to be on the
• 40:16
  military base.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: so there was no way I was ever going to take that book,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: but I never got to finish it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like...
• 40:25
  I read it like I just kept thinking about it over and over and
• 40:28
  over and then I did
• 40:29
  some traveling after I worked before I came back and I ended up
• 40:33
  finally getting a
• 40:34
  copy of it and it just like absolutely blew my mind and it
• 40:39
  really is I think the
• 40:39
  reason why I kind of fell back in love with reading to be
• 40:43
  honest as a book I just
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: felt like the depth was there the writing like that first page
• 40:50
  where he says something about like you know those who have the
• 40:54
  least have in a way
• 40:56
  the most to brag about when they talk about their hometowns
• 40:59
  like if their hometown
• 41:00
  is the is the worst they brag about it the most is there so
• 41:05
  they've got it all and
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: like I think about that with you know
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Medford,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oregon,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: and the Rope Valley is an incredibly beautiful place,
• 41:12
  but it's not a place that I would say most people who got out
• 41:16
  of Medford would say
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: they would go back to to live.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I've definitely come to love it my older years,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: but I would say that at that time I was like,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never going back there,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 41:30
  And so that book really struck me in that way of like being
• 41:32
  stuck in a place
• 41:34
  and making do,
• 41:35
  but also being very deeply proud of a place that you feel very
• 41:38
  conflicted about.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: When you picked up the other copy, were you like, I was on page 138?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, I read it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just read it.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I restarted.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have to restart things.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I restarted it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I borrowed it from a friend, read it,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: wrote a song about it too.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote a song called Westward from Eden about it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like, just have always thought about this, this book.
• 42:09
  And then when Emily and I started dating about 10 years ago,
• 42:13
  I bought a copy.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And to like,
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: kind of make her think that I was like,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: interesting or intellectual,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: I like wrote notes in the book.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, like,
• 42:25
  Highlighted things and underlined things but she like she she's
• 42:28
  pretty you know
• 42:29
  she's much smarter than I am and she caught on because she was
• 42:31
  like you know you
• 42:31
  really only like wrote notes on the first like three pages
• 42:34
  right of the whole book
• 42:35
  so I was like that's a good point yeah you know I was not as
• 42:40
  clever as I thought I
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: was I am a bot that's hilarious
• 42:46
  I've bought books and used bookstores where somebody starts out
• 42:49
  hot and they like
• 42:51
  after page 70 there's no more notes and like yeah yeah didn't
• 42:55
  finish it you know
• 42:57
  not only that then they sold the book or gave it away so it's
• 43:00
  like yeah yeah this
• 43:02
  wasn't the yeah and yeah what's the story there right you know
• 43:06
  like after page 70
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: like what happened I mean
• 43:10
  anything could have happened really yeah I guess I'm assuming
• 43:13
  they gave the book
• 43:13
  away but they also could have just like gotten run over by a
• 43:16
  bus you know yeah left
• 43:18
  it in a coffee shop who's to say left it in a coffee shop any
• 43:21
  of those things what
• 43:23
  what is so how is it how is that book informed or how is how is
• 43:32
  that book played
• 43:34
  into your relationship with Emily then did she like it she's
• 43:38
  obviously rereading it
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Loves it.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Netflix is doing a retelling of it in the fall.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's with Florence Pugh, I believe.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot remember the director's name, but she was in The Big Sick...
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is like Kumal Nanjiani.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: She played the actor in that movie which is about his life.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: His love interest who ends up becoming his wife.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: She's the one who directed it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just cannot remember her name.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so Emily was like, you know what, I want to reread this.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've read it several times and I don't reread a lot of books.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's That and Year of Magical Thinking are the two I've reread.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she...
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's she's reading it.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about it a ton.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that book like Emily's a writer.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's her.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's finishing a book right now,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:34
  and so like she is just like this book freaking rocks and it's
• 44:38
  just so well done.
• 44:41
  But it's about choice,
• 44:42
  you know,
• 44:42
  and like you don't always get to make choices in your life.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's a retelling of basically, you know,
• 44:52
  a lot of the Bible as well that book and so I think what's
• 44:55
  fascinating about it to
• 44:56
  me is kind of thinking about like some of those characters they
• 45:01
  get choices in
• 45:01
  their lives that they could make to change their lives in a
• 45:04
  better way but then
• 45:04
  they die before they even get to make those decisions and like
• 45:07
  some of them get to
• 45:08
  live but then never make those those right decisions and then
• 45:12
  others do and so it's
• 45:13
  really about like how we all get so many choices in our lives
• 45:16
  and can take us so
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: many different directions but
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: You don't always know how it's going to affect you or,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: if you're given the freedom to,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: would you make the right decisions for your life?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there a right decision as well?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about that a lot.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's also like, you know, I used to think that Kathy was...
• 45:37
  such a deep character and she's like I don't think Steinbeck
• 45:39
  understands Kathy at
• 45:41
  all because she's like you know she's so intellectual in her
• 45:45
  brain as a character
• 45:46
  and yet every time she speaks Emily said this yesterday she
• 45:48
  comes off as like a
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: cartoon villain you know and it's like dang it
• 45:54
  Somebody in my writing workshop just last week,
• 45:56
  I just overheard part of a conversation.
• 45:58
  They were like,
• 45:59
  that book,
• 45:59
  I tried to read it again,
• 46:01
  but I just think Steinbeck hates women.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have not read East of Eden.
• 46:07
  I've read Grapes of Wrath and Travels with Charlie and some of
• 46:10
  his other stuff.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which is probably the...
• 46:17
  a much more intense take on what you just said like he doesn't
• 46:21
  understand the
• 46:21
  character which is crazy though he writes about the immigrant
• 46:27
  experience you know
• 46:28
  obviously like I'm a white dude so I don't know the immigrant
• 46:30
  experience but like
• 46:31
  he writes about the immigrant experience in a way that's like I
• 46:34
  feel like actually
• 46:34
  quite of its time pretty spectacular yeah empathetic and
• 46:40
  spectacular and very
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: complex for like a white man
• 46:43
  at that time and even now to be honest like you know the fact
• 46:46
  like this character
• 46:47
  Lee does all the work and takes care of this family and yet Lee
• 46:52
  is faking his
• 46:53
  accent to be able to fit in in this society and only around
• 46:57
  certain people can he
• 46:58
  drop the accent and be a real human and when he doesn't speak
• 47:01
  with the accent
• 47:02
  people don't hear him or even like acknowledge him and like he
• 47:05
  talks about kind of
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: like the
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: The weight of trying to prop up society and doing all the work,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: which is like the immigrant story of a lot of people being raised on
• 47:19
  you know the foundation of immigrants and so it is kind of
• 47:23
  fascinating I don't
• 47:23
  disagree with your writing workshop person's hot take either
• 47:29
  but it is fascinating
• 47:31
  I think it really shows from a Seinbeck perspective I don't
• 47:34
  know really a lot about
• 47:35
  him but I really do think it shows that some writers really are
• 47:38
  complex humans and
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: like
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: We all have weaknesses and blind spots, you know.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think about that a lot with Cormac McCarthy and Larry McMurtry.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've just heard some Doves series and I think about like,
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: dang,
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Lonesome Doves is like a feminist hero movie in a way.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: The first one.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the first one.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then some of the other books, I'm like, no, you know.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not sure what he meant.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that first one I always thought would be
• 48:08
  I probably said this to you before but interesting to hear to
• 48:11
  have somebody write
• 48:12
  fan fiction from the perspective of one of the women in the
• 48:15
  book like but yeah
• 48:19
  perhaps that'll happen yeah yeah no it's complicated for sure
• 48:23
  and especially the
• 48:26
  bigger you get the more things people find out about you and
• 48:29
  the more ways there
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: are to read your work and yeah who knows yeah I'm curious if that like
• 48:35
  I don't know I also feel like after a certain period of time
• 48:38
  you know like I don't
• 48:39
  think about Steinbeck's day to day I don't know anything about
• 48:42
  him you know what I
• 48:42
  mean like really I'm curious if that does change things like
• 48:46
  obviously like the
• 48:47
  Cormac McCarthy thing the fact that like he had a mistress who
• 48:52
  was a young child
• 48:53
  you know that just came out a few like two years ago or maybe
• 48:56
  last year or
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: something like that and then you're like oh they met exactly like um
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, shoot.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's that movie?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: No Country for Old Men.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, basically they met exactly like the scene.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you start reading all of his books,
• 49:10
  you start to realize that there's always a love interest that's
• 49:12
  like 16 years old.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, you know, this is brutal.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious in like 50 years,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: do we really is there like a microscope on people and then it disappears?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, ethically, is that a good or a bad thing?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:29
  Obviously,
• 49:30
  I should not have been,
• 49:31
  you know,
• 49:32
  having a relationship with somebody who's 16.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a not okay thing.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a line there.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's really ruined the movie Manhattan as well,
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: the Woody Allen movie,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: where you're like,
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: is it that important that she's like 17?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we just like make somebody 19?
• 49:49
  Which is still kind of gross in that situation,
• 49:50
  but like,
• 49:51
  yeah,
• 49:52
  after,
• 49:53
  yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, oh, how did we all not see this coming?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we maybe separate the art from the artist or not.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Real hard.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: This has been fantastic, dude.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody suggested that I actually...
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Semi-Rad
• 50:28
  The movie Her The album White Lighter by Typhoon The book Some
• 50:34
  by David Eagleman
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And East of Eden by John Steinbeck It's good Hey,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: thanks so much for letting me pick your brain about all these fun things,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: man Thank you This was a blast Awesome