Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #429 Happy Thanksgiving! Spend a little time in awe and wonder with Theology of the Body:)

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#429 Happy Thanksgiving! Spend a little time in awe and wonder with Theology of the Body:) · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Podcast production of the John Paul 2 Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rick of your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and the doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a while to guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet St John Paul II said there's an echo of this story, of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on a proper lens, if I put on a proper lens, we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that ah moment.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II and theology the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back for today's episode.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We are back and we're doing a pre Thanksgiving.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Theology of the Body.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: This is session number 72, general Audience that John Paul II unpacked for us, presented for us on February 10, 1982.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: This is going to be the last in this part of this third part of the triptych where again we get back to the beginning.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Let me start it this way we came into a story.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: As I often tell young people, I said you know, anybody here create the universe?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Nobody in this whole audience, nobody here, wrote the big story we came into, nobody.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Nobody put the stars up in the sky in this room.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Nobody set the moon up there.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: You came into a story.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: You came into a story.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: This story, as Jesus shows us, had a beginning.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: It has a historical point.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: The historical point for mankind is really starts at the flaw in our brokenness.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Finally, we're aiming someplace, we're going someplace, we have an eternal life.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: This is where we've been this third part of the triptych, for the last, probably 10, 12 sessions, looking forward to the resurrection of our bodies, the spiritualized person.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Anyways, linda, before I come and throw the ball in your court, I'm thinking about Thanksgiving coming up.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about last year it wasn't long ago and the year before that, where we couldn't even have Thanksgiving and these tyrants and these blind people and these fear mongers.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I was thinking last year all the warnings still on TV yet that if we go to our relatives' house they're going to kill us.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: If we don't wear masks, if we don't stay six feet distance at a party, or if we got a little cold.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We have to like lepers in the Old Testament in Jesus' time.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm unclean, unclean, right.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Anyways, it was just so over the top ridiculous.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I realized people were fearful in the beginning, but I'm talking about last Thanksgiving, you know where.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: People should have seen by that time that we were asked to get experimental gene serum put into our bodies.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: That by that time, already last year, we already knew was ineffective.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: You didn't protect you from transmission, it didn't protect you from infection.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: And yet today, yet today, there's still a few commercials.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Did you notice that, linda?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: There's still a few commercials.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: What a bunch of ridiculous people.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: So this has got to be almost the end.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: It's almost like quiet now, right, but I still see them come up and they're using our tax dollars to push this stuff on people.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yet, and look at, we know how many people have suffered injuries and even death from this, and you just wonder how can they continue this?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It's hard to see.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how quickly it all evolved.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: You know, when we're looking at three years past now, I'm happy to say that my family and extended family were in the mindset of we don't think so.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So we did continue to have our family get together and I hope many other families did and will continue to do that, especially this year.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: So it made me think when you're talking about this whole idea of what we've been through and how does it connect to what our audience today is even about, and your wonderful introduction reminding us of the triptych, because even St Paul, as we have been looking at 1 Corinthians 15 in the last few podcasts with the Pope analyzing that, you know there's a definite link between our end, our destiny, and that beginning.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And if we kind of rise above all of that, if we can see the triptych in our heads saying you know, there was the beginning, the creation, and none of us were the Creator, as you pointed out, and we find ourselves in history, in this love story, you know we're born and we grow and all of a sudden we become aware of this great big world and where do I fit in?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And then the destiny of where am I headed?
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: That really gives us the panoramic view, shall I say, of what the Pope had in mind when he's writing Theology of the Body that we need to first look at who we are, where did we come from, where are we and where are we going.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: So that's that triptych, all with the idea, too, of what does that mean for how I am to live.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: And, as you say that this is the last audience in the first section, it concludes the idea of identity, who we are.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: You know, we've traveled through the whole triptych and it's so exciting to me to kind of review that and then look forward to what does it mean on how I am to live, because this isn't an exercise in, you know, just a mind thing, where we're talking about interesting ideas.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: This is really significant not only to how I live day to day, but also that final end for each of us, that final destiny.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So isn't this exciting?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: It is exciting and I think you know those of us who are working.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, linda and everybody listening.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: My heart really goes out again to young people who have not been told the story.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you come into the awe and wonder of the universe.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: And because I think of technology and we have our, it's not the problem of technology, it's the problem of how we use it and how we put our nose into these phones and we have so much noise we forget about.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Just like the reason I opened up with this COVID nonsense is because that that, and don't forget, you know, with this COVID nonsense, the same people that were behind bringing this into the world, this right, this, this radicalized virus, you know, this man made virus, we're also putting charge of bringing us the answer and nothing has happened to them.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, right, that you can unleash this on the whole world and then put in charge of how to fix this, and this is how blind we become, right.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Well, this is what happens with young people.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: You know you can get your nose caught up in this technology.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: All you hear is that propaganda and that's your life.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: So it becomes fear, it becomes I can't walk around without a mask, I can't talk, I can't go visit my grandparents and my friends and I can't go to a party and of course you know, at the end of the day you go, okay.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So what is the story Again?
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Do I have courage and bravery, not stupidity?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Right, we have to discern.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: When the black plague was going through and the Spanish flu, I mean, a lot of people died and you can, and there are people that got very sick from COVID.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I got pretty sick from COVID.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: So I mean we're not saying it's not real, it's very real, but at the end of the day you have to discern how you're gonna live your life.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Right, and again, I think Ephesians 6 always comes to mind, linda, for we're not contending.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Paul's set against flesh and blood, against the principalities and the powers and the rulers of this age.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: This is why this session and these last sessions are so important.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Young people and again my heart, this is all of us, but young people especially have to just step back to your points and say we came into a world full of awe and wonder, but we also came into a world of good versus evil and there's a spiritual battle going on and we're not neutral.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: We came into a story that's really ruled by powers and principalities, and there's a reason for that because we blew out the spirit of God, and this is all part of this audience.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: This is St Paul lewd's Back to Genesis, chapter two, verse seven, where God pulls up the clay and he breathes into it.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: He breathes the spirit into it and we know this.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Our hearts start to search for love and truth and beauty and ask those questions that the other animals don't ask who am I, what's my purpose?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And then we blew it out right.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: We were at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and we accepted evil.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: We reject God in essence, and this is the first Adam and blows out.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: And here's Jesus coming in and he's gonna breathe back into us to inspire us.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: We're not living in a neutral world.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: If we don't say yes to that inspiration, we have what's called the threefold concupiscence, this attack of a powers and principalities that will take you down as a human being.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: The only way to get out of this is to be filled with grace, which is the power of the passion, death and resurrection of Christ, and to breathe this back into us.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: And I think the only way to understand this, linda, is to walk into the story, really, I mean you can hear what we're saying today and what Jesus said.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: But he is also the power of this, and the only way to experience it is to walk into the story.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: In other words, try to do good.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: You're gonna find that it's very difficult to do good, right To be holy, and then you're gonna turn back to him and say now I see, I need that sacrifice, I need that power.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, when you talk about the fear that was instilled in all of us, and then it's still going on now, right Now, jack, it's for the young people in particular that fear-based and as far as you know.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So here's the story.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Walk into the story.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we have a lot to do with how the story goes and what the ending is and, as you say so many times, it is a love story.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Where do we find that love?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: That's, you know, what many are seeking.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Where is the love which we know?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Love casts out that fear and we have fallen into such darkness.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: We need to shine some light on it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: You and I know, and many of our listeners know, how Jesus Christ shines that light and as he breathed on the apostles at Pentecost, it is his spirit within us which is gonna shine that light.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Where we're going to find that love and begin to cast out that fear?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the, you know, I think back to Adam and Eve in the beginning, and but this is in the beginning, before sin has entered, and they're in an earthly paradise and you think to yourself, how could they choose to reject God in this right, you know, to eat from the tree of the good, with the knowledge of good and evil, which really says, you know, I wanna be like God, I wanna decide what is good and what is evil, and that's the only thing God says you can't do.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I am the author of the story and I'm full of love, I am good and I am beautiful and I wanna bring that into the world and I want you to be a part of this with me, not only as a creature but also as a procreator, and bring eternal beings into the world to step into this universal call to holiness and to be one with God.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Why we could reject that is amazing, but here's what happened.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Here's what I think about today for all of us.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: We, in essence, in a way, have actually won up on Adam and Eve.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: We did not come into a perfect world.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: We came into a very imperfect world.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: What we saw, and we can see today, what Adam and Eve couldn't see is the effect of their sin.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: In other words, they are in a paradise.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Now they want something more, right?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is crazy how proudful we can get.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: But they're tempted.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Right, the tempter is full of power and Principality.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: There's a power there that exists, and this is this alludes back to our earlier statement you, you don't come into a neutral place.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: They didn't come into a neutral place.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: They have to choose, falling for evil.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: By grabbing the fruit of the tree, they left herself exposed to evil and Basically blew out the, the spirit.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Well, anyways, you and I, you're standing at that tree and we can see the evil all around us, the fear that we brought up today, the way people use each other, the pornography that goes on and twists and distorts people, and so why do we still choose Evil?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Why, why?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Why do human beings today?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is the mystery.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Why, today, when we're offered the, the redemption of Christ, the power, the Spirit that can be blown back into us, why do we reject it today?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how the veil comes over our eyes and we can continue to accept this, this, this promise of hope and change right, the Marxist promise, you know, of utopia here on earth when we know it's never worked Throughout history.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: It has never, ever worked, and yet we're gonna try it again.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we, and we do see the wages of sin is death.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: We see that all around us, but I think that speaks to how strong that threefold.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Concuban says, is you know that, instead of that spirit holding the upper hand, if you will, and directing our choices, that pull of Concubus and the lustful desires that we have is so very strong and we I think that speaks to me that we know at that level that we cannot fight this battle alone, that there's some help that we need, and we know that it's the grace and it's turning to that redemption.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: So, yes, there was that time in history after the fall, before Jesus Christ came, that even those folks did not have that advantage, so to speak, of the redemption that Jesus brought, the teachings, and Then, when the paschal mystery actually occurred you know his death and resurrection they didn't have that and so they were much at a disadvantage.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: So here we are, as Advantage as we could possibly be, if we think about it, and still that pull is so strong.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I think our audience today, when St Paul is talking about and, and the Pope as well, about what it looks like In heaven, in the eschatown, with this we see that there will be that reversal when the power of the spirit will how do you want to say it have the strength, the power over the senses, and it will be corrected as the way it was intended to be with original man, and the thoughts about the sensuality In heaven that the Pope is saying we're going to have the perfect Sensitivity of the senses, which is their perfect Harmonization with the activity of the human spirit in truth and in freedom.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: He speaks of that all the way in paragraph 4.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And so that Idea of the concupiscence in that pull, now the weak Earthly man that we're experiences, will change in the heavenly Spiritualized body.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It's awesome to consider it when we think of how Wonderful the senses that we've been blessed with have and how, once again, we perverted and distorted their use.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so there's the vision, but I think what's what's the most interesting to me is that we're invited to step into the story today.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That's the final vision, but but the reality of that is that eternity doesn't mean tomorrow, eternity means forever.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: We're already came into the story and we are eternal beings.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: When we were exploded on to the say stage, saying Paul talks about the seed and John Paul talks about the seed here.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: So we're this seed and that seed is actually, scientifically John Paul says, is this is the sperm, the seed that actually produces a human being, and that that seed touches the egg from a woman and and this womb and it explodes into life and this is eternal life.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: So we're called to breathe this in today, and so the power of this.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: We will not know the fullness of this until death, and tell this, until this earthly Life actually goes underground, into the ground, where buried six feet down, but just like Jesus when was actually died of physical death and was raised by the Spirit and this is the same thing.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Well, and he's raised by the Spirit, he turns and he breathes on us and he gives us the bridge to get us into this next stage, which is our final stage and we're gonna have to die to this temporal life, which is not an easy thought and and you do need that vision of what it's gonna be like.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we want our hearts to start to turn that way already.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: For young people think about how beautiful this is for young people young people, I mean, that are young enough that they're not even married yet.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So, whatever, let's call it, high school, early college age, whatever that is and to step into the story and to look back at the triptych in the beginning, the fallen man.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And then when Jesus says to them Like this this is Matthew 22, verses 29.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: He's talking to the Sadducees, but let's let's talk to to these young people who are on the on a path, trying to figure out who they are.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: They're not married yet.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So why not Accept this reading today?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And says you are wrong.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: You don't know the scriptures, know the power, the power of God, for in the Resurrection they neither marry or are given in marriage or like angels in heaven.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: As for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: What was said to you by God?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And when the crowd heard it they were astonished at his teaching.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: This is what I would do today as a young person.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I'd step into that story right now.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: You know we're so worried about porn and using one another.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: You're not married today, so so step into the story, because that's where we're going, and be filled with that spirit and power so that the day that you meet the person, you know we're all looking right.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Young people are always looking for the right person to come Into their life.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Right, but nobody wants to become the right person, so that when they find the right person, they're gonna get rejected because they're not the right person yet, or they're gonna make a misery out of their marriage.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Instead, be filled with the spirit.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: If, hopefully, you can find another person in your life, if you're gonna get married, that also is filled with the spirit and this, what is really the, the foundation of an incredible life together.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of thoughts I have there.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: If you are working on becoming the right person, meaning becoming spirit filled and actually living your life, giving glory to God remember the glory of God is the human person fully alive.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So, working on yourself, becoming fully alive, that is so darn attractive, jack.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: When you see a person who is working on that and living that way, it's extremely attractive.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And if you have young men and young women who are doing that, I will make sure that they pair up, they find each other, because the attraction, that perennial Attraction that we talked so many sessions ago about, is still there and it's still a blessing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: And If a person's living that way, they're gonna have the faith that I'm trying to live my life according to God's plan for my life and as they're walking into that story, but the love happens.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: It truly does.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I would love to tell every young person it will happen.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I won't go into my story, but I was the biggest doubter there was, and yet it happens when you're on that track and you've walked into that love story yeah, thank you for that.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And St Paul then now takes what, what we're talking about here, from Matthew and also Matthew, mark and Luke they all talk about the same story here where we're not gonna be married or given away in marriage, that we're gonna really open ourselves up.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: The marriage isn't on earth, is it?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: You don't hit the delete button, you hit the complete button when we, when we move on and again you step into the story.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And then St Paul and one Corinthians 15.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: He gets a little bit more granular with this and he says so in the resurrection of the dead.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: What is so unperishable?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: This is our, our natural life here on earth, especially the first Adam who gave us a physical body.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Right in this nature passed down to us, we also come into a broken world.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So what Jesus does, john Paul says, is not only restore us to the beginning, but adds a fullness that we didn't even experience in the beginning.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna push away the, the idea that we, we are no longer the innocence anymore.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: So when he breathes into us, he's given us something more.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: He's already taking us into this final phase.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So St Paul says in verse 42 of 1 Corinthians 15 what is so unperishable is raised Imperishable.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: What is so in dishonor is raised in glory, to your point, from that's from St Irenaeus the glory of man is the glory of God.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Is mankind fully alive?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: It's sown in weakness, it's raised in power, and I think you got to keep thinking about power.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: We're given power.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: It's sown a physical body but it's raised a spiritual body.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: If there's a spiritual body, there's.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: If there's a physical body, there's also a spiritual body.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Thus it is written.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: The first man, adam, became a living soul.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: The last Adam which is who's Christ, of course became a life-giving spirit.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And so when Paul is talking about the body, he's talking about a body and a soul.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: He's not separating that.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: This is not a platonic thing.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: We talked about philosophy earlier, right before we came on.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: This is not Plato, which says that that you know the body is is just going to go away and release the spirit.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: We are a body and a soul.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: What St Paul is talking about is that a spiritualized body meaning a body and a soul, feel like we were just talking about with the spirit, body, soul plus grace that we receive in the resurrection gives us the potential for human flourishing if we go out and love our neighbor right and actually do this and step into the stage.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, in paragraph two, at the end here the Pope says this spiritualization of the body will be the source of its power and imperishability, or the immortality, so that spiritualization of the whole constitution of man, he says so body and soul together.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I think your point I'd like to bring that back up about not returning to the way it was in the garden before sin, that's St Paul's dresses that it isn't just a matter of returning back to that state but that it's going to be permeated by the mystery of redemption is just a beautiful thought there, that it's an introduction to a new fullness.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So be a point earlier that we're called to live all of this, recognize it, be a part of it here.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: We'll never attain the fullness here on earth that we will in heaven.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And yet we have to be on that path or we won't get there right.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: We won't get to that destiny.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And how do we do that?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: It's once again, you know, recognizing the redemption as the source of that grace for how I'm going to live my life and, as you said, love my neighbor.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: If you stay in touch, though, with that lack yet in other words, we're not full, we're not there yet and stay in touch with that ache, even if you are married or whether if you are not, that that ache will continue to push you to this vision and will continue to.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: You know, john Paul said in earlier work it's perennial call of attraction between a man and a woman.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: If you think about this, this is also we're created in the Imago day.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: This comes from the perennial attraction of man to God and God to man.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So this ache that we feel that we're not complete is true and we should continue to have that ache because it will continue to open you and as we go along this journey.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: You know, we think this journey is a long time sometimes, but it's not.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: This dash that we're in between our life and our death goes very, very quickly, and that call to eternal life is very real and it's to bring us deeper and deeper and deeper and every day, just like trying to live with another person, you should be falling in love with them every day, in all our aches and pains, knowing that those sacrifices are actually the gemstone.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: John Paul mentions a word in here today and it really means gemstone.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: It means someone that's polishing your body and then blowing this power into your spirit, and so it's a purifying fire.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It's taking that metal that we are, that gem that we are that's unpolished and unfinished, and that seed, perhaps too, that's going to grow into a magnificent tree.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: And this is all taking part in our life.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: But we have to die to self.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: We have to die to this temporal life.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: We have to die to our own unshiny self and allow God to continue to polish this up right and bring us in.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And we have to live this out, and it's very difficult sometimes.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: But what's more difficult, linda is not doing it.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: That's more with no hope, no change, and grasping and taking to the last day I die.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Where can I look at another porn film and grab another Manhattan and grab a cigarette and, at the end of the day, look at all in moderation.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Right, somebody would say right, but so our sexuality is beautiful, but don't twist it and distort it into something that's not.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Have a drink, but relax a little bit, but don't go crazy and become a drunk.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Right, it goes on and on.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: God gave us all these beautiful pleasures and what do we do?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: We're trying to find God, the infinite, in each pleasure, instead of understanding what they're for.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: That would be the virtue of prudence, coming in there with those choices Prudence, temperance, fortitude Exactly.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is how we battle against that threefold concupiscence, you know, as it draws us to vices.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: We must work consciously of developing the virtues that would counter those vices.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So it's really not that difficult in concept, it's just much more difficult in actually doing.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: But you know it's rooted in that drive that we have for the truth, goodness and beauty that we know we're being drawn to and which is that desire for God which gets somewhat fulfilled here when we're on that path of holiness.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Jeb, perhaps you'd like to speak a little bit to what the Pope says about the senses in this particular audience.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: You know that sensuality, which is a beautiful gift and again that term has kind of been co-opted to be synonymous with our sexuality, but we're in its purest form, that sensual means something that's perceived by the senses.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, taste, touch, smell and all of that.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: He says that that is all going to be perfected and in a way it's that untwisting, because the senses, which may get us in trouble now, are going to be what will bring us back in the fullness.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: In the eschaton and, as luck would have it, as the Holy Spirit working, I stumbled across an article that was talking about contemplation and beauty, reclaiming sensuality for the new evangelization.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And the author.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I won't go into all the details, but he is talking about that sense and drive that we have towards truth, good and beauty, and especially beauty.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: He opens with a quote of Saint Paul saying the aesthetic value of creation.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, saint John Paul the second, not Saint Paul, the aesthetic valuation of creation cannot be overlooked.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Our very contact with nature has a deep restorative power contemplation of its magnificence, in parts, peace and serenity.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: The Bible speaks again and again of the goodness and beauty of creation, which is called to glorify God.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: And we are the pinnacle of creation.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: We're called to glorify God but we can find so much through our sensuality of appreciating, through our senses, the beauty of all creation.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: So if I'm kind of stuck and say how do I make this work for me, I might consider you know, do I, do I get up to see a sunrise, or do I watch the sunset?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Or in the storm, do I look for the rainbow?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: You know, those are just little things that can help call us back, you know, to that beauty that we're seeking and through our senses.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: And of course the article goes on to the importance of beautiful churches and sacred art and sacred music and all of those things which help draw us into that holiness through our senses.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all of creation and all of the things you're describing are to be a sacramental order.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: It's all.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: It reflects something of God, some parts of God.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: You know the mountains, the streams, the stars, everything you know.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: When you see art, you know you can look at a wonderful piece of art or you can look at pornography, right, and you know.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I mean when I remember when I first started to come back into the church and start to understand I had three children already and start to understand these things I remember watching a show, some television show, maybe it was something like Friends or something like that, and I sat there with the kids before and watched it, and then they said something and did a couple of things and my children were, you know, fairly young and then suddenly dawned on me that this is probably not a good scene for them to watch, you know.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And so that's what happens with your sensuality, your eyes, your hearing, your touch that all of a sudden you start to see no, this is not elevating me, this is not elevating my heart, it's not elevating my children's heart.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So I don't really need to do this.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And I remember saying to them you know what, guys, I'm not going to just turn this TV off, what I watch.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I forget how old they were, but probably early teens or something, you know, and I said but I said I'm not going to watch this stuff with you guys anymore because, I said, it's really not elevating us into what's true, what's good and beautiful, and you may not understand that right now, but anyways, the effect on my kids was something we started to all see these things through a different lens, through prayer, and that's what we have to do today.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: We have to, kind of, it's in prayer that we start to make a connection to God, we start to receive this beauty from Him and then, when we start to look out into the world, we start to see these reflections of God and it becomes united within us.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: You know we keep thinking our body and our soul are separate, that our senses are bringing something into us that we see, and then this is like handing it off to the soul so the soul can analyze it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: But really we're a soul that we're an embodied soul, we're a soul that permeates who we are and when we allow, the spirit in the spirit too dwells within us, and so this is all working together.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So our senses see beauty, true beauty.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Our soul gets, vibrates and you feel this joy within you and you're united.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Already, because of our baptism and our say yes to God, we're already.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Not only our hearts start to soar to God, but we become one with God.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: We feel that joy within us and that peace within us.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: So these are things that we can encounter on a day-to-day basis.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, jack, it's the Ignatian spirituality that talks about.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: We're either moving towards God or away from God.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Every day, every action, everything we're doing.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So your story about watching the program that you said this is not elevating me towards God.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: No, in fact, it was pulling you in the opposite direction.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: It was pulling you towards the concupiscence, towards the lustfulness, and maybe, subtly, the program was just kind of saying being lustful is okay, or even funny.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: You know, all trying to attach these positive elements to the lust that might have been portrayed, you know.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So it's, yeah, if we think about, is this elevating me?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Is this moving me in the direction towards God or is it moving me away from God?
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It's a very simple kind of exercise that we can, you know, take ourselves through at any moment where we have a choice to make.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, I believe that I've caught myself a few times where I wanted to react in anger and say something nasty that it just kind of grabbed me that that's not going to help, you know, and not to say it.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: So I think we experience that a lot if we pay attention to it.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Well, as we wind up here, it's Thanksgiving, but I but we are aiming toward where we're going, so I want to.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I'm on a thread with a lot of theology the body, people from all over the country and some around the world, people like Christopher West and Damon Oman's and many others, and it was written in the threads runs from a woman that started, or was part of starting, roa Woods in Cincinnati on theology, the body.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: But anyways, we all knew this woman, and some of us more than others, named Jen Messing.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Jen Messing was stepped into theology, the body many years ago and her apostolate became bringing people out into nature.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: So she was a nature person, she loved the outdoors, she loved everything you and I are describing about the beauty of nature, the beauty to stimulate your heart and do everything we're just talking about.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And so it reminds me now that she passed away on November 20th, and so I just want to read you a short thing with, without going too much into her life, but.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: But this is from Leslie Coleman, the woman I just mentioned that was started with Roa Woods.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: She was a very good friend of Jen's.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: She said greetings all.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: While we're all celebrating Thanksgiving with our loved ones, jen Messing is celebrating the ultimate the wedding feast of the lamb.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: So Jen passed away yesterday morning, november 20th, at 19 or 2023.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And so she died of cancer.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: She was a relatively young woman, had struggled with cancer for quite a while and she was doing some beautiful posts.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: And so Leslie just goes on and she says Jen and I were classmates of several of the theology the body, head and heart immersion courses back in the early days of the theology the body Institute you and I, linda, have done, had done some of that, she said.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I distinctly remember a conversation we had sitting in a shelter at a picnic table at Black Rock Retreat Center.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: This is where we were held those, those classes.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And so Jen wanted to pick my brain.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Leslie says about whether to start her ministry into the deep.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: She wanted to know about my experience and the nitty gritty details as the founding executive director of Roa Woods and how we got started.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: I recall saying something like God just wants our yes and the Holy Spirit will take a small idea and blow it up into something big.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: We just need to trust, pray and hang on to the Holy Spirit.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You just need to shut your eyes and jump.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad Jen took my advice.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: What a blessing into the deep has been to so many seeking to know more about theology, the body.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: What a blessing it has been for all to know and understand theology, the body and to rejoice in Jen's journey toward her origin, history and now her destiny.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: And we can all look forward to that day when the whole theology, the body posse is united together in heaven.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: What a celebration day that will be Happy Thanksgiving and kind regards.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the story, right and and and.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: She was never married here.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Jen wasn't a beautiful woman, for whatever reason, she wasn't married and so she skipped the marriage here and she, she goes right to the marriage of the lamb, right, and we will all be united together, united somehow, all together, you know, with, with, with Jesus Christ himself, right With the Trinity.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: It's amazing story.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: This is our marriage, this is where we're going, and if you want your relationships to be fruitful here on earth, draw deeply from that right To where we're going, draw deeply and then become that person of love and and, and let the Spirit lead you where he will.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Right, the love story here is all about preparing for that wedding feast of the lamb.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, we can keep that uppermost in our mind, we'll live joyfully, and God bless Jen and pray for the repose of her soul.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you All right, everyone.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: So have a happy Thanksgiving.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Don't forget, you know, when that big turkey is sitting on the table.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: You know, this is just a little tiny, tiny, tiny inkling of what God has in store for us.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Don't forget to to lead your family in prayer, you know.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Pause for a second, say you know, just, let's just all be quiet for just a second, and and and thank God for the gifts of each other and for the food on the table that God wants us to have a little flavor of, of, of what the banquet is going to be in heaven, right?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: God bless you All right, everyone.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving, Linda.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you, happy Thanksgiving.