Latest / Social In Security / Luxury Travel Beyond Five Stars | Heather Wiese & Laura Ericson

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Luxury Travel Beyond Five Stars | Heather Wiese & Laura Ericson · Social In Security

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There is an invisible language underneath every interaction you
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have. I've spent my career learning to
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read it. I'm Heather Wiese and this is
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social insecurity, where we get into modern etiquette, luxury
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and the social intelligence that decides how you are received.
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The quiet art of the first impression and the confidence to
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carry yourself anywhere. The rules are real and they are
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also learnable. Consider this your invitation.
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Luxury travel, we all. Aspire to do it.
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Or have it, or have experienced it, at least if you're listening
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to this podcast, you do or have. And by far beyond the fabulous
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hotel room or class of airfare, something else makes the
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experience feel truly luxury and experience shared with a new
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face, a local market. Or a coffee shop where you're
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treated. Like a regular or a dinner in a
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secret garden prepared by a local experience the tourists
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simply don't get. My guest today has built a
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company in that gap. Laura Erickson spent 14 years in
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higher education before leaving in 2021 to create a group travel
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company. Since then, she has guided 400
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solo travelers through 10 countries in five short years.
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And she goes where the brochures often do not Cuba, Kenya,
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Colombia. What I want to explore with her
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today is what luxury travel actually means now because it
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stopped being about thread count a long time ago.
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And I'm not sure that we all agree on what has replaced that.
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But we're going to discuss a few things that you might consider.
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Welcome, Laura. I'm excited to get to talk to
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you. I want to start with just how do
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you know the dynamics of the group are going to be worth what
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it costs for people to invest in the travel or do you not and you
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just know how to handle the conflict if there is something?
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It's a good question. I would say it's a little bit of
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mixed. First of all, I wouldn't call my
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trips luxury by traditional definition.
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They're all different in terms of what countries were going to,
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what type of accommodations were staying.
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And I say that they're rich in experience.
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I wouldn't say that we're staying at the Ritz Carlton and
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you have a Butler and that type of experience.
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That's not really what they're intended to be, but at the same
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time they're catered to in that everything is handled for you,
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all the logistics are planned out for you.
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You really shouldn't have to think about a whole lot beyond
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just booking your flight and packing your suitcase and
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getting there. So it is this very like hands
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off experience that's very integrated and immersive and
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interactive with the local communities and cultures that
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we're visiting. As far as the group though, I
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mean that is a gamble you take in any situation.
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I think part of it is just managing group expectations
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ahead of time and managing the group on site.
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Have I had some problematic people here and there?
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Yes. But overall, I've had great
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people. And when you have a group of, I
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don't know, 10 to 15, I feel like it's small enough that it's
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not a bus of 50 people, but it's also big enough that you can
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find your people within that group.
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And you don't have to be best friends with everyone.
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Like where anywhere in life do you meet a group of 15 people
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and every single one of them are like, you know, your ideal
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person that you would want to be friends with.
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It's just doesn't really happen. So I think part of that is
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coaching people through it ahead of time, that we're sharing
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experiences together, we're sharing transportation together.
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Like maybe not everyone is your cup of tea, but also that's part
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of the experience is getting to know people that maybe you
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otherwise wouldn't interact with in your day-to-day life.
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And maybe you'll learn something from talking to somebody that's
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very different than you or somebody that maybe initially
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you didn't think you're going to get along with.
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It's a challenge, but I think that's part of the beauty of it
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is getting people from different walks of life in the same room
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rather than trying to put everybody together and make them
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be the same. So can.
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You visualize if I say who is the traveler that you went, yes,
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this was. Who I was looking for?
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This is who I created this company for.
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Can you tell me a story about them without revealing who it
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is? Yeah, I can think of all kinds
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of examples. I mean, very generally speaking,
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I would say it's the people who are open minded, the ones who
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are just open to the journey and the adventure and whatever it
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brings. They say yes to new experiences,
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even if they're scared, even if it's something that maybe
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they're a little bit adverse to. It's the ones who are just
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willing to try. I think those are the ones who
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get the most out of it and are the most fun to travel with and
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witness their journey while they're traveling.
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I have a lot of women who are divorced or maybe an unhappy
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relationships, or sometimes I get widowed women.
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I get a lot of people who are just lost.
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I think not that I enjoy having lost people or like want people
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to feel lost, but I love having those people on my trips because
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I feel like I can actually see how impactful travel is for
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them. And they come back to me later
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and tell me this trip changed my life or I look at things
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differently now that I went on this trip.
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And then they're signing up for multiple trips or they're
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choosing different careers or they're leaving their partner
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from an unhealthy relationship. I see that all the time where
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sometimes I think it takes stepping outside of your
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day-to-day life and getting into a different scenario with
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different people, experiencing something different, witnessing
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a different culture, seeing people maybe who are struggling
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in different ways. And sometimes it just clicks or
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snaps for somebody and they go home and get the courage to make
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a big change. That's fascinating and so true.
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I had some travel with my parents growing up, but the
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world, life changing perspective changing travel for me was the
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study abroad. I always encourage everybody
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when they're in college to do the study abroad program.
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Get outside your wheelhouse, get outside your comfort zone.
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So when you have people on your trip that are experiencing this
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richness of experience, what are some of the things that you do?
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I think you may have a philanthropic angle.
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I don't know if it's all trips or some trips.
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Like, what are the things that you do that cultivate this?
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I'm going to call it a luxury that's outside of, to your
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point, staying at the Ritz Carlton and having the Blacks
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car service at every moment. Because I think while that is an
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element of luxury, you can be totally unhappy doing that and
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what you offer is so rich and it's so full of perspective.
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So we have give back opportunities within a lot of my
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trips. I wouldn't say it's every single
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one, but it is something that I want to have in pretty much
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every single experience going forward.
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But part of that is just getting the traveler, whether they want
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to or not, to look at travel differently and look outside of
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themselves. I think generally speaking,
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sometimes travel can be an inherently selfish endeavor.
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I would say often travel is associated with vacation, right?
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I mean, there's lots of reasons why we physically travel, but
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the most common one I would say is time off and vacation.
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We have a sense of I'm owed this, I'm entitled to this, I
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earned this. And so sometimes people carry
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that attitude wherever they go and it can sometimes maybe not
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leave people with the best impression of travelers from
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other countries, not just Americans, But if you go to an
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all inclusive, there's this attitude of wasting.
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I would say, you know, like I paid for this, so who cares?
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I'll leave my lights on. Who cares?
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I'll have somebody come clean my room every day.
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I paid for it. I'll leave the towels and get
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new towels every day. I'll waste my drinks, I'll waste
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my food. I paid for a buffet.
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I earned this, right. Instead of thinking about like
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the impact that that might have on the people in those countries
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who are experiencing day-to-day life very, very differently than
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we are when we're on vacation. Same thing with cruise ships and
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things like that. So just getting people to think
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outside of themselves when they travel, especially when they're
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going to places like lesser developed countries and places
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where there's a stark contrast between the resort you might be
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staying at and where people are living nearby.
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I think a lot of people now, years later, will actually
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choose my trips because of this. And it's actually a selling
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point for them. They want to travel with
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intention and purpose. I think that today's traveller
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is a little bit more mindful than maybe in years previous,
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but I think a lot of people are looking for something more
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meaningful when they're travelling beyond just, I'm
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sitting on a beach with a cocktail in my hand and having
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like the typical luxury beach experience.
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They want to feel like their trip has purpose and meaning.
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And so whether that's doing an actual activity where you're
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giving back and you're actually involved in it or you're staying
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at a place that you know is run by locals or I try to be really
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clear with my trips of how we are supporting local
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communities. Generally speaking, we're not
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staying in big chains and we're not participating in activities
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that are destructive. Being mindful of how people are
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being paid and compensated. That's something I've
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unfortunately learned the hard way throughout the years, that
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if I'm paying somebody to hire me a guide, for example, I don't
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necessarily know what that guide is being paid.
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And I've learned through experience that sometimes it's
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very unfair. So just making sure that we're
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doing things that are equitable and beneficial and hopefully
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helping more than we're hurting. Cause travel can be just
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inherently destructive. You're taking away resources
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from local communities without meaning to sometimes.
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What can we do to give back and participate in a way that isn't
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as detrimental, putting money back into the economy, helping
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people get jobs. And so we have actual activities
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that we'll do on my trips. It depends on the country and it
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depends on the need. I was just this spring in Kenya
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and we did a big period poverty fundraiser for girls in Kenyan
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schools. I learned the first time I went
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to Kenya, when I was planning my return trip with the group, I
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asked one of the teachers of the schools, you know, I'm coming
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back. Like, what can I bring?
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And I was thinking, you know, pens, pencils, notebooks, school
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supplies. You know, I'm, I'm picturing my
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group filling suitcases with school supplies to help these
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kids. And she said, we need pads.
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And I was like, what do you mean pads?
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She's like period pads, like sanitary pads because girls
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can't even go to school when they're having their period.
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They sit at home for a week and miss school entirely.
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And then the boys get ahead. That's this stereotype that the
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boys are smarter than the girls, when just in reality, if you
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have your period 12 * a year, you're missing potentially 12
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weeks of school every single year.
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That compounds on itself. And eventually these girls end
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up dropping out and they get pregnant and then the cycle just
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continues. And so I had absolutely no idea.
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I felt ignorant in that moment that I had no idea that that was
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even a thing. And it doesn't just exist in
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Kenya. It exists all over the world.
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It even exists in the United States.
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But I immediately was like, Oh my gosh, we have to do
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something. But also, what is it that you
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can do that can help on a larger scale?
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Because bringing a bunch of girls, some disposable pads
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might get them through a month or two or three of their period.
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But like, what is that going to do for them long term?
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So we ended up partnering with a nonprofit that makes reusable
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sanitary pads and my groups, so they, they had a factory in
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Malawi where women were being employed making the pads.
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We had them shipped over to Kenya.
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And then my groups actually went into the school and not only
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gave out the pads, but educated the girls on having her period
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and helping to fight that stigma of having a period, that this is
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normal, that we all have periods.
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That is so much more impactful than telling your traveler that
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we're just going to send money. The traveler got to see that in
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person and experience it and interact with those girls and
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they got to sing and dance with them.
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And I don't think they'll ever probably look at having your
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period the same way because of that.
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And that's just one example. But I mean, we've gone to visit
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acid attack survivors in India. We've gone to a dance school in
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Georgia and got costumes for kids who couldn't otherwise
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afford to go to dance class. We've gone to dog shelters in
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Mexico City and provided food and collars for dogs that don't
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have homes. I mean, all kinds of examples.
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Cuba is a big one where we bring suitcases of donations because
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they don't have access to absolutely anything.
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And so they don't have medicine, they don't have treatment.
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And so kind of, I don't want to use the word forcing the
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traveler to experience that. I think it's just very, very eye
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opening. Not everyone, but most of them
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leave feeling a sense of gratitude and a new perspective
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on what they have at home and usually it makes them want more
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of that. I've had a lot of people come
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back and say I come on these trips because I look forward to
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these days where we get to do something for these people.
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It's got a mission trip component to it, and then the
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rest is travel, exploring. I think it's really interesting,
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especially the fair wages thing that you talked about.
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That's something that's always been really important.
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Is there a way that people can, as they're traveling on their
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own or just traveling as a couple or something, find out?
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Are there questions to ask? How did you come about the
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information? How do you find out if someone's
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being paid a fair wage? That's a really good question
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and I think it's a sticky situation honestly.
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The way I've found out is from the employees who over time
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learned to trust me. And at some point they either
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told me, they might have even told one of the travelers who
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told me, for example, like a driver telling me that they're
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not being compensated fairly when they're going above their
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boss. In their eyes, I'm their boss's
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boss 'cause I'm their client that they're taking a risk and
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confiding in me and telling me what's going on.
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And I would say ultimately that usually leads to their
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supervisor no longer having my business.
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But I don't obviously tell them why, but it has definitely made
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me realize like I need to ask those questions up front.
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As far as like a traveler, I mean, think like Airbnb
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experiences, for example. Like Airbnb is obviously taking
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a cut of whatever somebody is making.
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And then, you know, you can look at that experience.
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Are you booking an experience with a solo entrepreneur?
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Because then obviously they're being compensated for that
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experience. And with Airbnb taking a cut,
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are you booking with a company who's unemploying somebody
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within that company to run a tour or teach a class?
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That's a little trickier to find out like what they're being
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compensated Whenever you're booking direct with somebody,
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that makes it a little bit easier.
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Anytime there's a company in the middle, there's a booking
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platform in the middle. Even if you're booking
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booking.com, which I know we all do it, but if you're booking a
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boutique hotel in the middle of Columbia and they only have 4:00
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rooms and they're using booking.com, booking.com is
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taking a chunk of that profit from that business owner.
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And of course, yeah, they're providing a service because
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they're advertising for them and maybe they otherwise wouldn't
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have been found. But you also could reach out to
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that accommodation, go on their website, find their e-mail and
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ask them if you can book with them directly instead.
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So it's not cut and dry. It's not easy.
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I think the biggest thing is just to ask questions.
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It is different in every place that we go to, but knowing that
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you're not working with some big organization, you're not working
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with a cruise ship company or a big chain hotel or things like
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that, there's a lot less people in between me and the people who
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are working for us. Is that general advice that you
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would give is if you really want to have an impact on the people
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that you're supporting through your travel, to minimize the
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number of people that are in between?
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Aren't they? Generally speaking, yes.
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I mean, they're certainly like big travel companies out there
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that I know have more of a impact focus.
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And I would argue maybe they have more of the resources to be
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able to do that. So I wouldn't say big companies
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are inherently bad, but I think it's like doing your research.
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So talk to me a little bit about group dynamics.
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I'm projecting right for myself. I'm not a group dynamics person.
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There's a part of me that would want to do group travel because
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there's so many things that I've heard you talk about in this
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podcast. I've had another guest that they
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do trips with a group of friends and there's this an unknown sort
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of scariness for someone like me.
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It feels like work to navigate group dynamics.
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Do you have tips that you give? Do you have ways that you let
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people have their space or different options that people
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have that make group dynamic not about just people who want to
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make friends and be in the group.
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You talked about people who it was good for and talked about
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people who it wasn't good for. Is that just part of it?
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Like you need to want to be in a group?
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I've had many people travel with me who say I'm not a group
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travel person or I'm an introvert or I didn't think that
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this was my thing. I have a lot of people who are
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really social and a lot of people who aren't, and they come
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for different reasons. And I would say the nice thing
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about at least my trips is that people kind of bow out at any
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time. We have this Irish goodbye
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policy where you can disappear if you want to, you can skip.
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You can just say I thought I was coming to dinner, but I don't
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have it in me tonight. I just need some time to myself.
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They need that night by themselves to recharge so that
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they can be present and ready for whatever is happening the
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next day. And that's totally fine.
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Like there's no judgement in somebody needing space.
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And I think people like should need and want space.
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So I wouldn't say that there's one type of person.
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I know a lot of people. One of my best friends, he lives
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in New York and he came on my Georgia group trip last year.
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He did not want to come. He was interested in coming to
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Georgia. He wanted to hang out with me
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and my partner, but he was like, I am not a group travel person.
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I think sometimes people have this perception of group travel
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that it's like they're too cool for it.
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Like, I can do this on my own, Like, I don't need this.
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And he left and he was like, I was so wrong, Laura, I had the
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best time. You took me so many places.
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I never would have been able to go on my own.
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I never would have been able to like make cheese with somebody
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in their home in the mountainside of Georgia.
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And I never would have met all these people that I really,
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really had a genuinely good time with.
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I can't put a price on it. So he's like, I was wrong.
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Not will I do this all the time? No, But that was definitely a
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very eye opening experience to think that I knew better and I
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didn't. So I think group travel is not
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only just about like being able to meet the people that you're
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with and the people that you meet along the way, but also
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often times it's opening doors to experiences that you wouldn't
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be able to get on your own. Not everything is available on
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the Internet and thank God for that because Airbnb experiences
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and things like that, although wonderful and they have their
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benefits, it's also commoditized travel in a way that makes us
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all feel like we are entitled to almost shopping for an
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experience where all I have to do is add to cart and now I'm
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invited to somebody's home and they owe me an experience.
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On one hand, it's nice that it's allowed people to have more
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integrated experiences and interactions with locals.
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On the other hand, I think it's also created this exchange of
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like maybe inequity and made people take those experiences
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for granted. And also I think sometimes is
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setting the traveler up for a staged.
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Experience. Where on the other hand, their
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local, sometimes they're like, all right, they want us to put
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on a show for them. This is what they think our
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cultures like. So let's stage this experience
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to make them feel like they're getting something really
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authentic when in reality they're not.
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I think there's so much benefit to having connections and being
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brought into experiences that you can't just go purchase
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online that you really can only do if you have connections and
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know people and have established relationships with them where
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they trust you. And I think some experiences
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also like aren't intended for groups.
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I don't think groups of 20 should be necessarily going into
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somebody's home. You have to kind of be careful
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with that with group sizes too, where you don't want to feel
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like you're kind of intruding on people's privacy and their
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places that they live. You said two things that really
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resonated with me that I'm glad you said.
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One is talking about those experiences because in my
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travel, I go to Italy quite a bit and people know that about
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me. I have my list now when people
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go, I'm going on this trip, you know, I need your places that
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you like and so I have these things, but there is that
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component like you said. I keep.
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Going back to the same place, because I have developed
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relationships that offer me those experiences where someone
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says, hey come, we're all just getting together.
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Like you and I might get together and order pizzas.
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They're getting together and their garden outside and
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everything that they're making for dinner came from the garden
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because that's the way they live.
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Not just because they're spoiling us because they've got
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guests in town. And those experiences that only
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you can provide or only a local can provide are truly, in my
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opinion, they're just a level up.
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They're a different kind of experience than what you were
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getting if you're just going to go stay at a really nice place
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and eat really nice food and experience the top of the
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culture. The other thing was I love that
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you have the policy of the Irish exit because I think that's so
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important for people who aren't really sure to be able to bite
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off something like this and realize before they get into it
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that it's not going to be more than they can chew.
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It's going to be fine because you can take doses of people and
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whatever increments that you need.
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I think I get the picture of following a tour guide holding
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flag down a street as a herd of cattle and I'm like, never will
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I. It just sounds horrible.
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And so I think it's right. It's good to hear no.
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No, no, we're not doing that. That's not what travel looks.
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Like, some group travel does look like that.
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Absolutely. There are the big tour buses and
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the people wearing matching T-shirts who are just in mobs
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and the guide with the flag and the headset.
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And that does exist. And all of those things can be
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considered group travel. This is small boutique group
22:38
travel, which is very different. I have a no microphones policy.
22:42
There's no flags, none of that. One of my first group trips I
22:45
did, probably my first year, I had a guide with a microphone
22:49
and like he and I argued I was like, no microphone.
22:51
And he, like, did not want to turn the microphone off.
22:53
And I was like, if you need a microphone, then my group is too
22:56
big. That's my rule.
22:58
Then we've gotten too big. We've lost the plot, in my
23:00
opinion. So I'm not judging people that
23:04
want to do those experiences. That's totally fine if you want
23:07
to be in a big bus tour. But I think that's everyone's
23:11
perception of what group travel is, is that I'm going to be in
23:13
this giant bus. I'm going to be herded around
23:15
like cats and be one tourist site after another.
23:18
Go, go, go, go, go. Some guy just talking at me in a
23:21
microphone. That does exist, but that is not
23:24
at all what we. Do I think that intentionality
23:26
is something that I really like, the cultural shift that we're
23:29
having towards that as something that's really, it's a pro, You
23:32
know, everybody talks about what's going on in the world and
23:35
I think that we're all becoming a little bit more aware slowly
23:38
but surely. And I love what you're doing.
23:41
Question for group dynamics. Do you have something that you
23:44
tell people in the beginning because you set the stage, it
23:48
seems like you do a good job of setting expectations.
23:50
Do you say, hey, these are things you should do or bring or
23:53
mindsets you should have? Like what's your kind of intro
23:56
into setting expectations for the right traveler to have the
23:59
right experience? I give that little speech in
24:02
every orientation of we're all adults.
24:05
I'm not here to micromanage or babysit or tell people they need
24:10
to be friends, but at the same time, we're all here to respect
24:13
each other. You know, we're all here to have
24:16
our experience. I tell people who are coming in
24:19
small groups, whether they're coming as couples, friends,
24:22
sisters, whatever it might be to be mindful of the solo traveler
24:26
that's coming alone. And that sometimes it's really
24:30
easy when you have your person, even if it's just one person, to
24:34
kind of have the blinders on to everybody else to consider the
24:37
other people in the group. Consider the people who don't
24:39
have somebody to talk to, who don't have their built in buddy.
24:42
I encourage people to sit with somebody else in the van, to sit
24:46
with somebody else at dinner, to just strike up a conversation
24:49
with somebody maybe you haven't talked to, because it is really
24:52
easy to stick with your person. And I actually think you're like
24:57
not getting as much out of the experience.
24:59
If you're stuck to your person the entire time, you're missing
25:02
the opportunity to get to know all the other people too.
25:05
So it's just better for everybody if everyone's on the
25:08
same page. And sometimes I have groups that
25:11
just work beautifully and people are hanging out and having
25:15
reunions years later. And sometimes I have groups that
25:18
just don't gel as well. And I think that's just the way
25:21
it is. But people never leave without
25:24
making a friend or two or five. I mean, it's just inevitable.
25:28
My Georgia group that I had last year, we've already met up in
25:32
Chicago for somebody's retirement party, get an early
25:36
retirement. I'd say 75% of that group is
25:39
coming to Wisconsin this month for my summer camp that I run.
25:42
There's more good than bad. There's definitely more positive
25:46
than negative. And there's way more friendships
25:49
that come out of it than people not getting along.
25:52
Like anything in life, there's always going to be bumps in the
25:54
road, but there's way more success stories and positive
25:58
things that come out of it. Which is great.
26:00
I mean, hopefully you would expect, right because it's the
26:02
whole thriving business. So because we always want to
26:06
know these kind of things. Have you ever had to ask someone
26:08
to leave? Have you ever had a real problem
26:10
where you were like, isn't you are not?
26:12
Sticking with this group, I have not had to actually ask somebody
26:17
to leave, but have I had problem people?
26:21
I've had to have conversations with people on the trip and I've
26:24
had a couple people that I would have put on what I call my no
26:27
fly list where if they tried to come back, usually I feel like
26:31
it's mutual. Most of the time those people I
26:34
feel like they kind of self select and don't come back.
26:37
But one time I've had to tell a woman, she booked multiple trips
26:41
and I hadn't met her before. She booked three in a row.
26:45
And so she came on the first one and I was like, OK, this is not
26:49
only not a good fit, but this is not safe for you or for anyone
26:52
else. So I had to refund her and it
26:55
was the most expensive day of my business.
26:58
I'm pretty sure this was early on.
26:59
I had to give somebody like $12,000 back as a refund as a
27:03
brand new business owner and obviously piss her off.
27:06
But I remember that moment. I was like, I either make this
27:10
woman happy and lose all these other people and probably will
27:15
never have a business. I remember being like this woman
27:17
will single handedly run my business because those people on
27:20
this trip are going to be like, I'm never doing that again.
27:23
I'm never going to travel, you know, or spend that much money
27:26
on a trip where I'm with somebody like that.
27:28
So I had to look at it as protecting the rest of the
27:31
people versus just making this one woman happy.
27:33
That's a great track. Record with 400 plus people, I
27:36
think that's. Really great, So.
27:40
On social insecurity, we have sort of the social insecurity
27:43
question when we wrap up, when somebody comes on and you can
27:47
tell like it's either going to be a problem or they're a fish
27:50
out of water, or you just have this pull towards them that's
27:52
like, I can tell they're going to need some help.
27:55
What's the tell? What do you see when you see new
27:58
people come in that you feel like you need to intervene or
28:02
they just don't know what they don't know?
28:04
And do you have a story? Like can you think of an
28:06
example? I know you had mentioned social
28:09
codes that people just not reading the room or
28:11
understanding the dynamics at play.
28:15
I would say in travel, especially in Group travel, it's
28:19
the ones who are kind of complaining, I guess, out loud,
28:27
especially in places that have less than you do, and
28:30
complaining about what I would consider to be first world
28:34
luxuries. Not being aware of your
28:37
surroundings and kind of broadcasting your grievances,
28:43
like not having enough hot water for your shower, or there's a
28:48
bug in my room, or there's potholes in the road or the
28:52
Wi-Fi isn't strong enough, or I can make a phone call.
28:57
All of those things I have heard and many, many, many more.
28:59
All those things. If you think of Cuba in
29:01
particular, I've taken many, many groups to Cuba.
29:03
I currently cannot because of what's going on with the United
29:06
States and Cuba. It's a place that has basically
29:09
nothing and the people are so generous and so gracious and so
29:15
willing to share the little bit that they have.
29:19
And I just do not comprehend how one, I prepare people for this
29:24
mentally before they go. So it shouldn't be a surprise
29:27
because the thing with a place like Cuba is a lot of people see
29:31
the postcard and they think of the beaches and they think of
29:33
the classic cars and they're like, wow, that's so cool.
29:35
It's set back in time. Like it's retro and they're not
29:38
understanding. Like there's a reason that it's
29:40
set back in time. There's an actual legitimate
29:42
reason why there are classic cars in Cuba, and it's not
29:45
necessarily a good reason. I think a lot of times American
29:49
travelers don't understand or really in general, I would say
29:54
the world doesn't understand what's happening in Cuba because
29:58
outside of the United States, the average traveler can go
30:00
there freely, willingly for a vacation, stay in a resort, go
30:05
on a beach, drink mojitos, go around on the classic car tour
30:09
and kind of have this catered luxury, if you will, Cuba
30:12
experience. And then American travelers who
30:14
are not allowed to go there for a vacation end up having to have
30:19
a forced different experience because of the visas and the way
30:22
that we're allowed to travel for humanitarian reasons and other
30:25
things. And so it literally gets me
30:28
every single time when there's somebody that is complaining
30:32
while they're in Cuba there. I'm tired of eating this food.
30:35
I can't get a hot shower, the beds uncomfortable.
30:40
My room isn't as big as so and so's room.
30:42
Those are the moments where I'm like, are you looking around?
30:45
Do you see what I'm seeing? Like, do you not understand why
30:49
it is the way it is? And sometimes it'll be after a
30:52
whole week of being there and someone still is planning and
30:55
they're still unhappy because they didn't get ABC on their
30:59
trip. I had someone mad because she
31:00
didn't have napkins. She was like, why are there
31:03
never any napkins on the table? And I was like, how have we been
31:06
here for a whole week? And you don't understand why
31:10
they don't have napkins to give you?
31:12
Like they don't exist here. They're not being rude.
31:15
Those are the ones that get me the most.
31:16
It just goes completely over their heads and especially when
31:20
they're complaining about it in front of people who have to live
31:23
this every single day. I always tell people you're not
31:25
going to get a lot of sympathy from me if you're unhappy about
31:29
some of these things that are just what I consider to be
31:31
modern day inconveniences. This is one week of your life.
31:34
This is not your everyday existence.
31:36
And so if you don't leave with anything but gratitude and
31:39
perspective, I don't know what else to tell you or how to help
31:43
you, because that's like a whole different thing that goes way
31:47
beyond something that I think I can teach.
31:49
You're absolutely right if you're either not taught it
31:51
early at a formative age, or if you haven't decided that there's
31:56
something in yourself that you want to grow, so you decide to
31:59
learn it at a later age. I think you just go through life
32:02
and you miss these things where you stay unhappy and you don't
32:04
really know why, which is why we put together the podcast.
32:07
Because I think for the people that are seeking, because they
32:10
didn't necessarily get it ingrained in them at a young
32:13
age, it's a really beautiful thing.
32:15
And I'm sure it's something that you see when someone goes
32:18
looking for something and then you see that light click because
32:21
they were paying attention and they were being self aware and
32:24
they were willing to look outside because that's what they
32:27
came to do. I think that's the beautiful
32:29
thing about your company and what you're doing is you're
32:32
really giving people an opportunity for a bit of
32:35
enlightenment, self introspection, self-awareness,
32:39
and just awareness that the world is a really big place.
32:43
And I think it's OK to say that you were ignorant to knowing
32:47
something I didn't know about period poverty.
32:49
And I'm a world traveler. I do this for a living.
32:52
And I had no idea that that was a thing.
32:53
And it was a humbling experience.
32:56
I very vocally tell people like, I can't believe I didn't know
33:00
this. So if I didn't know it, how many
33:02
other people don't know it? I didn't know it until I was
33:04
faced with it. And I'm grateful to have had
33:06
that experience. And so it's OK to be wrong.
33:10
It's OK to say you didn't know. It's OK to also look back and be
33:15
like, wow, I think I've maybe made some bad decisions when
33:17
I've traveled in the past and now I know and I'm going to act
33:20
differently. That's OK too.
33:22
We don't have to be perfect travelers.
33:24
I think it's just about being open minded and trying to
33:27
educate yourself and make the best decisions that you can.
33:30
Absolutely. I think we'll do a lot of damage
33:33
trying to figure out why we didn't do something right that
33:36
we can't change anyway. The forward perspective is
33:38
always better and just better for everybody.
33:41
Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked
33:45
you? Like telling people where to
33:47
find you? I'm in the middle of rebranding
33:49
my business to Type 2 Travel. I'll still be findable and
33:52
everything will redirect to the new website.
33:54
But the meaning behind Type 2 Travel, which like I said is my
33:57
podcast name is it's based on the concept of Type 2 Fun, which
34:02
was developed by Mountaineers a long time ago.
34:05
And it's basically those moments that are hard at the time but
34:09
end up being your stories later, which I think every time I tell
34:12
somebody that, they're like, oh, that makes me think of this one
34:14
time when I was in Italy and whatever, we got abandoned on
34:19
the side of the road and it really sucked.
34:20
But now, like, it's funny or, but now it's the ball story.
34:24
Yeah. Like my group recently, we broke
34:26
down in the middle of a flood in Masai Mara in Kenya, and
34:30
everyone was singing Hakuna Matata on the side of the road.
34:33
It wasn't necessarily that fun at the moment, but later on, you
34:37
know, I'm sure that's one of the highlights of the trip when they
34:39
look back on it. So that's the main reason for
34:42
the rebrand and the new name. I love that.
34:44
So Type 2, travel.com, that's where we find you.
34:47
Yeah. Great, wonderful.
34:50
Well, thank you so much for being with us and I appreciate
34:53
you. That was Social Insecurity with
34:58
Heather Wiese. New episodes drop every
35:01
Thursday. Subscribe, leave a comment and
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send this to someone who would appreciate it.