Latest / Thick No More / “The Exam System Is Failing Our Children” — Hannah Gee & The Fight for Fair Exams

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“The Exam System Is Failing Our Children” — Hannah Gee & The Fight for Fair Exams · Thick No More

0:02
Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Thick No
0:07
More. So this podcast, as a lot of you
0:10
know, was made because a lot of us grew up believing that there
0:15
was something wrong with us, that perhaps we weren't clever
0:17
enough or we weren't trying hard enough, or in my case, just
0:23
thick. So today's conversation is going
0:27
to ask something much bigger than that.
0:29
What if the child isn't failing the system?
0:33
The system's failing the child. My guest today is a lady called
0:37
Hannah G. So she's the founder of Fair
0:39
Exams campaign. A lot of you are going to know
0:42
Hannah from her incredibly emotional video that she
0:45
recorded where she signed the car burst into tears because her
0:49
son was sitting a GCSE exam for the third time.
0:53
And I can tell you that video affected me massively.
0:56
Behind the tears, I think we're something that thousands of
1:00
parents recognized. Frustration, helplessness, and
1:03
this overwhelming feeling of what if there's another way?
1:08
So Hannah didn't just sit with that feeling.
1:11
She physically decided to do something about it.
1:14
And that is why I've got her on today.
1:17
She's taking a Fair Exams conversation to Parliament, Ted
1:20
X, BBC Radio for Woman's Hour. She's fighting for a system that
1:25
gives people the opportunity to demonstrate what they're
1:27
actually capable of. And today we're going to get
1:30
right underneath it. I want to find out what's wrong,
1:34
what could replace it and what does Fair Exams actually want?
1:39
And what would Hannah say if she was seeing opposite?
1:41
People have the power to change it.
1:43
That's what I really want. So Hannah, welcome to Thick No
1:47
More. It's an absolute honour to have
1:49
you on and thanks for agreeing to do this.
1:52
Thanks, Jay. It's a pleasure to be here.
1:54
I'm excited to talk to you. I know it's an honour, honest.
1:58
It really is. So listen, everybody gets this
2:02
first question right, OK? Everyone, no matter who you are,
2:05
door flings open. Every time the door opens, we
2:08
get a song playing. What's your song and why?
2:13
I would have to go for Josh Wink Higher State of Consciousness
2:18
because it's a song that's guaranteed to get me on the
2:20
dance floor every time I hear it.
2:25
It's an absolute banger tune. I mean, I'm a, I'm a, I'm from a
2:28
jilted generation of of, you know, 80s and 90s ravers.
2:32
So yeah, I know that song really, really well and it's one
2:36
of those ones where there's a voice in it and every time it
2:39
comes on, it makes my hair stand on stand on end.
2:42
So yeah, I love it. Great, great tune.
2:45
And yeah, I'll be humming that later.
2:47
So good. Before we get into the whole
2:52
fair exams, Ted X Parliament Women's Hour, I want to touch on
2:57
a little bit about you. Tell me a bit about Hannah.
3:01
Who was Hannah? Who was Hannah before all of
3:04
this? Before or before the moment in
3:06
the car, you know, and all of these exam situations?
3:09
Who was Hannah before us? Tell us a bit about Hannah.
3:12
So I'm a mum to three boys, my eldest is neurotypical and my
3:17
youngest, 2, are dyslexic. So I've had a really different
3:21
experience with the education system with each of them.
3:25
I ran my own business for a number of years so that I could
3:27
be around for my boys and then I sold it just after COVID and
3:32
pivoted to become a poet. And then later, most recently,
3:36
I've become a hypnotherapist. So I've got a variety of hats
3:40
that I wear and I enjoy living a really varied professional life.
3:47
Big change business owner to a poet?
3:49
What sort? What sort of poems do you write?
3:52
Very kind of contemporary, quite sure.
3:55
All about midlife. Just things about my life
3:58
really. I do more producing.
4:01
Everything that's wrong at the moment.
4:03
Yeah, I do more producing events.
4:06
Growing up for yeah, sorry, growing up for growing up for
4:10
Hannah. What was what was education like
4:13
for you? What was your experience of
4:14
education? So I worked really hard at
4:18
school and I had a love for reading.
4:21
You know when I was younger we didn't have ATV till I was about
4:24
8. So the only thing to do really
4:26
was to dance, play and read. And I loved reading.
4:31
But I really struggled in school.
4:32
No matter how much effort I put in I was never more than a kind
4:36
of C grade student. And looking back now I had a lot
4:41
of traits of dyslexia. So even though I was an avid
4:43
reader, my B's and D's were around the wrong.
4:46
It took me a long time to learn to use a clock to tell the time,
4:50
tying shoelaces. There were lots of kind of hints
4:53
that possibly I was mildly dyslexic that was just never
4:57
identified at school. So I think overall I enjoyed
5:04
school because I had a good social life.
5:06
I had lots of friends, but I think academically I always
5:11
struggled. And I was lucky enough that an
5:13
English teacher said to me when I was 16, you know, you are
5:17
going to go to university. And it never occurred to me that
5:20
I'd be going to university. And it's only because she said
5:22
that. But I thought, oh, OK, I'll do
5:24
that then. And that's what I did.
5:26
And I studied sociology at university and I loved it.
5:31
Incredible and and to to and I know because I've done it
5:34
myself. But to go through those emotions
5:38
and your brain being working differently outside of the box
5:42
to everybody else is going to university is quite challenging,
5:44
right? You know, and I think that's
5:46
something we need to kind of explain to to some parents that
5:50
it isn't the end of the road. If you're charging you a
5:52
diverse, that isn't the end of the road.
5:54
It doesn't mean they're not going to be successful.
5:55
Look at you, you've had a fantastic business, you've been
5:58
a parrot hypnotherapist, you've been to Parliament.
6:00
You know, it's not the end of the road, is it?
6:02
There's still, there's still opportunities, right?
6:05
Yeah, absolutely. I think that I was really lucky
6:08
that when I was at school, my Mass GCSE, I failed my first
6:12
mass GCSE and it was a a thing that doesn't exist anymore
6:15
called KMP, Kent Mathematics Project.
6:18
And it was coursework. I think about 50% of it was
6:21
coursework. And the second time round I
6:23
managed to scrape a pass. But honestly, maths to me as a
6:27
child was like someone was speaking a foreign language.
6:30
I just, I couldn't understand abstract maths, no matter how
6:34
hard I tried it just didn't make sense and even now it can drive
6:37
me to tears. I'm just so lucky I have AI now,
6:40
so if I've got a complex maths problem I need to solve, I just
6:43
put it in there and it it solves it for me.
6:47
Absolutely. It's it's AI has changed my life
6:51
for sure. And you know, I think, I think
6:53
the generation of children growing up now have the
6:55
opportunity as as long as AI is adopted carefully and, and, and,
6:59
and cleverly, I think it'll, it'll, it'll only help
7:02
neurodiverse children for sure. You know, neurotypicals will
7:05
always succeed. You know, that they're going to
7:07
be OK no matter what happens. And, and these changes that I
7:10
can't wait to hear what you want to tell me about fair exams
7:14
because needs doing and, and, and we're going to get into
7:17
that. And so was there a moment when,
7:19
when as mum, not as Hannah, as mum, when, when you started to
7:23
realize that your children might experience education
7:25
differently? What, what was that moment?
7:27
Can you kind of share that with me a bit?
7:30
Yeah, so my eldest kind of flew through, you know, primary
7:34
school phonics, letting letter patters, all those things that
7:39
you just take for granted. And my middle son, no matter how
7:43
much work I did with him, I remember making number bonds out
7:47
of wallpaper to try and get him to learn the number bonds to 20
7:50
and getting him to jump physically on numbers, anything
7:53
to try and make it just go into his brain.
7:56
And no matter what I did, it wasn't working.
7:58
And so I kept saying to school, I think there's something wrong
8:00
because I had a benchmark to compare him to.
8:03
And school kept saying, oh, he'll catch.
8:04
And eventually by year 4, they said to me, Oh yeah, actually we
8:10
think you should get him tested. And so I did.
8:13
And he came back severely dyslexic.
8:15
And I thought, oh, great, in one way my feelings as a mum were
8:20
validated. There is something wrong.
8:23
But then equally I was like, OK, you know, they gave me like A50
8:26
page report of everything school needs to do.
8:28
And I took it into his state school at the time and said, you
8:31
know, great, he's being diagnosed.
8:33
Here are what you need to do. And they just said, well, he's
8:37
not severe enough for us to do anything.
8:40
There's no budget. We won't be doing any of this.
8:42
We can't help him. And then my husband and I at the
8:46
time made the choice to move him into private school because we
8:52
knew they had a second. Did that change?
8:55
Did that, was there, was that a difference?
8:58
Was there any difference experience for him as a child
9:00
and you as a parent? Yeah, it was a huge difference.
9:04
It kind of breaks my heart having had one child that stay
9:07
educated and two that are privately educated.
9:10
It breaks my heart how big the difference in education is
9:13
between the two. Because we were fortunate enough
9:15
that we could pay for it. It was hard, but we did it.
9:19
And there are so many families that just don't have that
9:22
option. And for us, the big difference,
9:25
we thought we were moving for smaller class sizes for one to
9:28
one support and to really help them.
9:31
And we got all that. But we got a lot more in that.
9:34
Private schools put so much they're able.
9:37
It's not that state schools don't want to do this, but
9:40
private schools are able, with their budgets, to prioritise
9:43
arts and sport and drama and all the things that are considered
9:48
extracurricular. Yeah.
9:50
And just in so many ways, they, they they help all students.
9:56
So it just breaks my heart how little state children get in
10:01
terms of a diversity of curriculum.
10:05
Yeah, and I, I mean, I'm the same when we recognise my
10:08
eldest, we knew straight away. Well, I knew straight away
10:12
because I'm obviously in the industry and, and he, he does he
10:16
online schooling and the difference between him being in
10:22
a classroom and doing this online learning is, is, is, is
10:26
miles apart. And I agree with you, breaks my
10:28
heart. It breaks my heart for the
10:31
people that aren't in that position to, I mean, we're not
10:35
particularly well off. And, and some of the times I was
10:38
on the breadline trying to manage this, this fee every
10:41
month, you know, this monthly fee, but some people just can't
10:44
afford to do that. But it shouldn't be like that.
10:46
And again, we're going to come on to this, You know, I really,
10:50
there's loads of parents and there's loads of education
10:53
educators that listen to this podcast.
10:55
And I, I, some of the stuff you say and I've heard you talk
11:00
about it makes the hair, genuinely the hair stand up on
11:03
the back of my neck because I keep thinking to myself, well,
11:07
why? Why isn't somebody doing this?
11:09
Why should it be? Why should you?
11:12
Why should I and lots of other people, Let's be clear about
11:14
this. Lots of people actually break
11:16
themselves every month, take on extra jobs to put their child in
11:21
a better position because they know they're going to fail if
11:23
they stay as they are. And it should, it just shouldn't
11:26
be like that. So, but again, I've got some
11:29
questions you about about the Prime Minister and the education
11:31
minister in a bit. And I'm going to, I'm going to
11:33
see where you go it actually. So OK, let's, let's bear in mind
11:40
we've got, we've got other parents listening and they,
11:43
they're, they're at different stages of the journey that you
11:47
and I have been on, right? So I want to talk to you as a
11:49
mum at the moment rather than, rather than anything else.
11:52
So what are your emotions like? You know, when you realise
11:58
you're struggling and you mentioned you took your child
12:01
out, put him in a private school.
12:02
What's it like as a parent and explain to me the emotions you
12:06
go through, what it's like at home, you know, the struggles
12:10
when the system doesn't understand.
12:12
Tell these other parents at the beginning of the journey what
12:14
what you went through. Yeah, I mean private school
12:19
didn't fix everything for us. I remember in year 6 my son
12:23
getting his end of term exam results and I remember walking
12:28
across the field and he was with a few mates and he was kind of
12:32
looking a bit sheepish. And I said, you know, you're
12:34
right. He said yeah, yeah, I got, I got
12:36
a result today and I said OK. And his friends kind of looked
12:39
at each other as if to say this is about to go off.
12:43
I said, OK, what'd you get? And he said, oh, I got 18% for
12:47
my maths. And I thought, oh God.
12:50
And my child, he's an optimist. So after every exam, I'd say,
12:55
how do you think you went? Oh, I think I did really well,
12:57
mom. I think maybe 6070%.
12:59
And I'd be like, oh, great, great.
13:01
And he'd keep saying that to me and the results would keep
13:04
coming back. And he'd be 30 percent, 40%.
13:07
Like I say this time it was 18%. And my heart just broke.
13:12
And I said, OK. I said, well, OK, you know,
13:16
that's what it is. You tried your hardest.
13:17
That's all you can do. And the relief on his face
13:20
because we've only ever rewarded effort having such different
13:24
children early on, we realized that we're only ever going to be
13:27
rewarding effort in this house, not results, because they're
13:30
going to be vastly different. And he just kept getting such
13:36
excellent school reports, you know, teachers saying things
13:38
like, oh, if my son grows up to be as wonderful and kind as your
13:41
son, I'll, I'll think I've done a great job and, you know, puts
13:44
100% effort in, couldn't be trying harder.
13:47
And yet these exam results would constantly be really low and it
13:54
was just heartbreaking to watch. He he actually happened to be my
13:57
most confident child from birth. My oldest was really shy and
14:01
struggled with eye contact, but my middle son would just be the
14:06
first one. You'd be the first one to hold
14:07
the mascot's hand when you know they get to meet their heroes.
14:11
And my eldest would just follow him.
14:14
And what's happened at the end of education is my eldest is
14:17
really confident because school has reinforced that for him and
14:20
done a brilliant job on, on building him.
14:23
You know, he went to a great school.
14:24
I don't have any criticisms of it, but it's only because he's
14:28
able to do school that he's come out so confident.
14:31
Whereas my middle son, I just watched his confidence ebb away
14:36
for years and it was just heartbreaking.
14:39
Breaking does a parent you question yourself.
14:44
Yeah, all the time. Like, you know, there's part of
14:47
me that thinks what if I'd homeschooled him?
14:49
What if I'd never put him through exams because I watched
14:53
my son when exam results came. And obviously a lot of your
14:57
listeners will have this coming up next week on results day.
15:02
He failed his maths and English by 1 mark and two marks.
15:06
So he was so close. And so initially I thought, OK,
15:12
we'll just put him in resets. He nearly passed and I looked,
15:15
so I thought what the chances of him passing on the reset.
15:17
And I looked at the reset pass mark and over the last five
15:20
years it's averaged 21%. So I thought, God, the the stats
15:25
on in his favour, they're so low.
15:27
So then I thought, OK, how many kids?
15:31
21% and we spend £338 million a year on resets.
15:37
It's unbelievable. Let's just let's just just
15:40
Hannah, just repeat that again, 21% and how much?
15:45
£338 million a year. We've worked this out
15:50
independently and we gave these statistics to BBC because they
15:52
asked us to verify it for them. And so we sent them how we'd
15:56
work this statistic out because it's not available on the
15:58
government website and the Department of Education had no
16:00
comment on BBC Women's Hour about anything that we said.
16:05
Why do you think? Why do you think that is Hannah,
16:08
out of curiosity? Well, well, because I think that
16:11
there's someone hopefully who's going what we're going to do
16:14
about this. They found out how much resets
16:16
cost and that only 21% at best are passing.
16:20
I mean, that's an average over the last five years.
16:22
Sometimes it's as low as 15% whereas functional skills have a
16:28
pass rate. So functional skills are offered
16:30
to children after they have failed their GCSEs.
16:33
But in England in the state system, they're only offered to
16:36
children that get grade one on two.
16:38
And my sis, my son had a grade 3.
16:40
So he was put into compulsory resets.
16:43
They don't let you access your Level 3 qualifications.
16:45
So he had to do when he went to college.
16:47
I took his report. I showed them how close he was
16:50
to passing 1 and 2 marks. And I get there has to be a
16:52
parcel fail mark. But what's not OK is not kind of
16:56
looking around that and going OK, well, if you've got 1 mark
16:58
more he would have passed. So actually we can put him on a
17:00
Level 3 course, but they said absolutely not.
17:02
He can't go on a Level 3. And he wanted to do AB tech
17:05
Level 3 sport because he had a level 2 sport.
17:07
Because again, private school, you can do B techs from year 10
17:11
and in state schools, that's, that's not normally an option.
17:15
So he had a level 2B tech in sport and they said, OK, well,
17:18
he can do another level 2B tech in sport.
17:20
And I said, this is madness. They said, OK, well, he could do
17:22
business. So he's got a level 2 business
17:24
as well and doesn't want to do business.
17:25
He wants to do a Level 3 sports B.Tech.
17:28
So they said, OK, well, what we'll do is we'll put him on the
17:30
level 2. And if in a few weeks, you know,
17:32
we see that, you know, he should be moved up, we'll move him up.
17:35
Well, funnily enough, he started and his morale was so low
17:39
because he was having to do resets in subjects that he'd
17:43
nearly passed that he had no interest in.
17:46
And he was just totally demoralized, Totally
17:49
demoralized. So actually his attendance for
17:53
his actual Sports College, for his sports qualification were
17:56
quite high, but his attendance for his maths and English was so
17:59
low that eventually the college said we're going to have to
18:01
throw him out unless he turns up.
18:03
And I said, well, what do you want me to do?
18:05
He doesn't want to do Mass in English.
18:07
He's done them repeatedly for years and years and years.
18:11
And then when he got to the finish line, he failed, just
18:14
failed because he actually can do some abstract maths.
18:17
Because the GCSE Mass in English syllabus is full of abstract
18:21
Mass in English. Whereas functional skills which
18:24
are a recognized off qual regulated qualification that are
18:27
equivalent at level 2 to a GCSE. The pass rates for those for
18:31
English for 17 to 19 year olds are 63% and for Mass it's 55%.
18:39
So it's not 21%. So if we had more children
18:43
sitting a functional skills type exam from year 10, we wouldn't
18:47
even have that many children going through recess.
18:49
We would save so much money. More importantly we would have
18:52
more children with more self-confidence, higher self
18:55
esteem and believing they can go on.
18:58
It just, it seems madness it. Yeah, what is it?
19:04
What's the definition of madness?
19:05
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different
19:08
result, right? Yeah, absolutely.
19:11
Question for you then. In your opinion, what's more
19:14
damaging? Right?
19:15
Leaving school without a GCSE? Or like me leaving school
19:21
believing you're stupid thick broken.
19:26
I think that's what happens when you leave school without a GCSE
19:28
to be honest. I've seen it in my own son.
19:32
I don't see. When we were on Women's Hour
19:34
this week, the interviewer said to my son, how did you feel when
19:40
I was explaining the background to history?
19:42
How did you feel during this time?
19:43
And he said, well the first time I failed.
19:46
And she then said you didn't fail, you got a three.
19:49
Now my son knew that he had failed.
19:52
His direct response was that he had failed.
19:55
We can't just say oh you've got a grade 3 so actually it's a
19:59
pass because it's not. We all know that a pass mark is
20:01
a grade 4IN olden terms a grade C.
20:05
So my son realises that effectively the measure of can
20:11
you do school is GCSE results and he didn't pass them, so no.
20:16
So I as a mum have had to work so hard on building his self
20:20
esteem and that's what broke my heart with the Women's Hour
20:24
interview because. Women's Hour obviously has a
20:27
reach of around, I think, three and a half million people.
20:30
It's absolutely huge. Yeah.
20:32
And when I said to my son, who hasn't, yeah, my son hasn't.
20:35
Hadn't wanted to do any media on this campaign and I totally
20:39
understand that he doesn't want to be the poster boy for failing
20:42
your GCSEs. That is totally fair enough.
20:44
No, I get that. So.
20:46
So when I said to him, OK, Radio 4 have asked if you'll come on
20:50
with me and speak about your experience, you know, we talked
20:54
about it and he said, yeah, OK. Because right now I've built his
20:58
self esteem and his confidence, he's in quite a good place.
21:00
But that's taken so much work to do.
21:04
So we went on the show and I'm so proud of him because he did
21:08
an amazing job. He wasn't nervous, he spoke
21:11
eloquently, he explained how he felt.
21:14
But actually he was almost the worst thing in the world for the
21:17
campaign because what I presented was a child that
21:20
wasn't broken. Because he's going to mask to
21:24
the world. He's going to say, yeah, I'm
21:25
fine, I'm really confident. I mean, he was telling me how
21:27
confident he was about passing his English GCSE, the results we
21:30
get next week. And I thought, bless you because
21:34
I, I know that's not how you really feel.
21:36
I know that you're as terrified as I am that we're going to have
21:40
to sit there and go, OK, you failed for the third time.
21:43
I mean, he sat his master GCSE 4th 4 times, and then he sat his
21:47
functional skills a further four times until he passed.
21:51
So this child has gone through nothing but failure.
21:54
The things he's thrown at me, you know, I can't do this.
21:57
What's the point? You know, he's become socially
22:01
he's he's, he's rejected education because rejection
22:04
education has rejected him. It makes total sense that we
22:08
have over a million children. Neat.
22:12
It's crazy. And, and, and I think the
22:15
frustrating thing, you know, and I know this doesn't give you
22:18
any, any Peace of Mind at all, Hannah.
22:20
And I know, I know you speak to lots and lots of people, but
22:23
you're not on your own and everyone listens to this.
22:25
You're not on your own. You know, I'm one of those
22:27
parents. You know, my son is the same.
22:30
He, he, he, he tries, He's, he's got an IQ of 134.
22:35
He's one of the smartest kids. I know he's going to fail his
22:38
exams. And I know that because the
22:40
moment something's put in front of him, he just just goes to
22:44
pieces. And you can, you can, you can
22:47
word it any way you want. You know, the damage that it
22:51
does long term damage to a child going into a young adult, going
22:56
into adulthood. It stays with you for a long,
22:58
long time. I carried it for years and
23:01
years. You know, I, I, I want, I want
23:05
you to try. And while we're talking about
23:08
emotions and, and, and, and damage and how, how you feel as
23:13
a parent, can you kind of like, and I don't, I don't listen, I
23:18
appreciate you might get upset talking about this, but take me
23:21
back to that day because this is, this is how I came across
23:25
you, you know, and the day you were sat in that car, you know,
23:31
and I don't know whether it was upset, anger, a bit of
23:36
everything. Tell me, tell me what was just
23:38
take me back there that moment you were sat in the car.
23:42
Just talk me through what was going through your mind at that
23:44
moment. So the day the video of me went
23:50
viral, my son had his English exam, which was 50% coursework,
23:57
and he'd done really well in the coursework.
23:59
And his teacher said to me, look, he's just got to go into
24:02
the exam and attempt every question and he should pass.
24:06
And the exam was in the afternoon.
24:08
So I went in in the morning and kind of, you know, nicely woke
24:11
him up not too early about, you know, half 910 and said, you
24:15
know, come on, we've got to get up, love.
24:17
You know, it's your exam today. And he refused to get out of
24:21
bed. And I thought, OK, give him half
24:25
an hour. And I went back in and, you
24:27
know, shoutingly, get out. I'm not going.
24:30
I'm not doing this. And, you know, I took his
24:35
favorite drink in his favorite iced coffee.
24:39
I asked him, you know, I explained to him, you've just
24:44
got to attempt it. You've literally got to walk in
24:46
there and attempt every question.
24:48
You're going to pass. It's pretty much guaranteed.
24:50
And he just wasn't having it. And we've been in this situation
24:53
with loads of times with him refusing to go to school with
24:57
emotionally based school avoidance.
25:00
But this day was a big day. This day was what he and I had
25:05
worked so hard to getting him towards.
25:08
And I remember I just got to the end of his bed and I got on my
25:11
knees and I, I cried and I put my hands together and I said
25:15
please, can you get out, please? Because I knew how much was
25:20
resting on it. And then somehow I managed to
25:26
get him up and I got him into the car and his school's an hour
25:30
away and I drove him into school.
25:33
And in this car I was trying to talk about football the night
25:35
before. Arsenal won last night.
25:37
That's good. Closer to winning the league,
25:40
trying to lighten the mood, trying to distract him.
25:42
And I still I've got your coffee here, your snacks, your water.
25:46
I'm not having anything. I don't want it.
25:47
I don't want it. And it we got to school and the
25:51
invigilator was waiting for him. And I said, look, you come and
25:56
you've got to go. There's the invigilator.
25:58
And he was just really angry and he I'm not getting out of the
26:04
car, I'm not doing it. And so I said, I really need you
26:09
to get out this car. And then the invigilator came
26:12
and he got out, and, you know, she was all up there.
26:15
Hi, Joe. Come on then.
26:16
Let's go. And off he went.
26:19
And at that point, that's when I broke down in the car.
26:23
And I just, I'd done my Ted Talk back in March, and this was the
26:27
beginning of May. And I just wanted the world to
26:32
know how much it hurt. And I couldn't see any other way
26:37
of explaining it. And so I just thought, I'm just
26:39
going to record a video. And I did.
26:42
And I didn't have any into. I went into a cafe to get some
26:46
Internet. I chucked some captions on the
26:48
video. I uploaded it onto all three of
26:51
my Instagrams because the day before I'd done an event with
26:54
Davina McCall, and she'd started following me on one of them.
26:57
So I thought she might see this. It might, you know, she could do
27:00
something. She could help.
27:02
And turns out I didn't need to be in a miracle because the
27:06
video just went viral because so many other parents got it and I
27:10
was just inundated with messages and comments.
27:14
And you know, and when I went on Radio 4, because now my Ted X is
27:21
live and most importantly, our petition is live to get
27:24
functional Scott skills type exams integrated into GCS ES
27:29
because we can't have a 2 tier system because there's stigma.
27:32
Functional skills, no one's heard of them.
27:34
They've got a massive PR problem.
27:36
Equally, they're not available to everyone.
27:37
They're not accepted everywhere. They're seen by the government
27:41
as a GCSE equivalent. So therefore just call them a
27:45
GCSEI don't care if you call them a functional skills, maths
27:48
and English GCSE, but call them a GCSE because it's confusing
27:52
for employers and for young people.
27:55
And if we just integrate them in up to grade 4, which is our
27:58
solution, it it would be, it would change hundreds of
28:02
thousands of lives every year. I'm just working on our social
28:05
media posts for results day next week and I don't want to say too
28:10
much about what it is because I'm, you know, trying to do
28:13
something really strong, really impactful.
28:16
But the post I'm going to do before is I can predict how many
28:20
children are going to fail their GCSE.
28:22
English and Maths is 220,000 children.
28:26
It's totally unacceptable. It's one in three children are
28:30
going to fail their English and maths GCSE.
28:32
And this has been going on for as long as we know.
28:37
And it just breaks my heart that so many students and parents are
28:40
going to have to go through this, like I've been through
28:42
this and they're going to have to watch their child become a
28:45
shell of themselves. It just I just want it to
28:49
change. So let me take a breath a SEC.
28:56
OK, What was for me when I saw that video, my wife, my wife
29:05
showed it me and she was in tears when she showed it me.
29:09
And it upset me because so much of it resonated with my
29:14
childhood and the emotions I went through.
29:18
But also, while I see in so many people that I because I work in
29:22
education and I see these kids and, and I just don't get as a
29:28
parent, as a as a as a man, why we think doing it once, doing it
29:36
twice, doing it three times, doing it four times and
29:40
expecting anything different apart from damage.
29:44
That's all it does. And the fact you had to drag him
29:47
out of bed, I can't even can't even imagine what was going
29:50
through. So did you just was at a point
29:53
where you went right? But enough, enough just fighting
29:58
for Joe. Now it's time to make when
30:00
people realise that I am going to try and help everybody.
30:03
Was there a particular moment that did that?
30:05
To do what? What was it?
30:07
Do you know what it was that made you realise this is
30:09
fundamentally wrong and I'm going to try and do something?
30:12
Yeah, when I was, I put in my proposal for the local Tunbridge
30:18
Rails, Ted X, and they accepted it and they give you loads of
30:23
help and training with writing your talk.
30:27
And they kept saying to me, you're telling me all the
30:28
problems, but you're not giving me a solution.
30:30
And I kind of got quite angry and defensive.
30:32
And when it's not my job to give you a solution.
30:33
But they were like, but this is Ted.
30:35
It's about sharing one idea which is totally right.
30:39
So I thought they are right there.
30:41
And that's when I started at the same time my son, because I was,
30:46
I was doing writing this Ted X talk at the same time as going
30:49
through everything with my son. And it was weird because
30:53
something would happen and it would, I'd have to deliver it
30:56
because with functional skills, you get the results every three
30:58
weeks. And I just kept having to tell
30:59
him, you failed again, you failed again.
31:02
And because functional skills aren't easy, people think
31:04
they're easy. They're not.
31:07
They're just not abstract. And I'd have these deadlines
31:12
with Ted and I'd been going on and I'd be like this morning,
31:15
I've had been having to deal with another day of me being in
31:18
tears because I've got to work out how to deliver this news to
31:21
my son in a way that's not going to damage him.
31:24
In a way that I can, you know, take him out for lunch somewhere
31:28
so that he doesn't explode into into rage and anxiety.
31:34
And it just so, so they were coaching me and then my son said
31:38
to me, mum, there's this thing called functional skills.
31:40
And I was like, oh, and that's when I looked into it, looked
31:42
into the stats and was like, this is a real alternative.
31:45
So then I put that in to my TEDx talk as a solution.
31:50
And I walked off stage and one of the volunteers at TEDx
31:53
happened to be an ex deputy head teacher with 20 years
31:57
experience. And she just walked up to me and
31:58
she went, I'm going to join your campaign.
32:01
And I went, oh, and it hadn't occurred to me at the time,
32:04
really naively, because I'm the kind of person that goes, yeah,
32:07
I'll do something, but I've no idea how to do it.
32:10
I'll just figure it out as I go. And I realized I'm going to need
32:13
a campaign team. I'm going to need people around
32:16
me who can, who are going to volunteer because there's no
32:19
budget and can help me get this right.
32:23
And she was one of the first people that really helped me
32:26
understand it from a teaching point of view because she was
32:29
like, I've seen this story thousands and thousands of times
32:34
and this system isn't fit for purpose and it needs change.
32:37
And I'm, I'm here for you. So she's still on our campaign
32:40
team and the campaign team is really small.
32:45
There's four of us. And I've got some really good
32:49
friend of mine who built our website, who's built the most
32:52
amazing website with so much information on it.
32:55
And it's visually presented in a way that's so accessible.
32:59
And we've done all the SEO so that anyone, any parent that
33:03
puts in my child's failed their English GCSE or Mass GCSE.
33:07
We will come up with all your alternatives.
33:11
Now functional skills at the moment in this country are own
33:15
are only offered post failure of GCSE and only to grade one and
33:18
two students unless you can prove that you have a reason.
33:24
So that could be mental health and it could be SEND because the
33:27
statistic that really blows my mind is that only three in 10
33:32
SEND young people achieve their Mass in English GCSE compared to
33:37
seven in 10 non SEND. Which tells you everything you
33:42
need to know about the system that the system is failing, not
33:44
the child. Yeah, totally.
33:46
Because if the if these are sorry, if these are diagnosed
33:51
children who are entitled to scribes or extra time or
33:55
whatever else they're entitled to breaks and they're still not
33:58
achieving their GCS ES because they're send, then the system is
34:03
at fault, not the child. Yeah, OK, So listen, I've put a
34:09
couple of I, I am absolutely a million percent behind you,
34:14
right? And I, I never beg or plead
34:17
anybody to do anything on this podcast.
34:19
It's about me trying to give back, right?
34:22
But I'm a million percent behind you.
34:24
Now. I know I put super, I'm going to
34:26
push this podcast out as far and wide as I possibly can.
34:29
I want everyone to share it, right?
34:32
But we've got quite a few comments on the post we put on
34:35
Instagram, people asking for the podcast, which shows me people
34:38
really want to understand it. So what I want you to do for me
34:41
right now is I want you to pretend that we've got someone
34:43
listening to this who has got no idea what your campaign is and
34:47
what fair exams are. Just give me an overview of what
34:53
you're asking to be changed and how you would go about it.
34:58
So Fairer Exams has got a 7 point manifesto essentially.
35:04
The first change we're asking for is for the government to
35:07
automatically grant access to functional skills from year 10
35:12
for the children that need access to an alternative to GCS
35:17
ES And this can be decided with teachers, parents and the
35:20
students. And this is a change that we've
35:25
asked initially because it it takes no change in the
35:29
curriculum. Nothing needs to change other
35:32
than the availability of the offer of it.
35:35
The second thing we're asking for is that league tables should
35:40
recognise functional skills as having equal weighting to GCS ES
35:44
as they are considered an equivalent at level 2 to a GCSE.
35:49
Currently functional skills scores 0 on a schools league
35:52
table, so schools therefore do not offer them because their
35:56
league tables will be damaged. So that's the second thing we're
35:59
asking for. To make functional skills
36:01
available, schools need that freedom in their league tables.
36:05
The third thing we're asking for, and this is our biggest
36:07
ask, is we'll take more time, is to have functional skills
36:12
integrated into maths and English GCSE in a foundation
36:16
paper. Maths has a foundation paper.
36:18
We're asking for English to have a foundation paper.
36:20
We're asking for the foundation paper to be capped at a grade 4.
36:25
The most important thing is currently functional skills, the
36:28
way they're marked. They're marked by something
36:31
called criterion reference marking, which sounds very
36:34
complicated, but it's not. It's like a driving test.
36:36
When you sit a driving test, you pass or you fail.
36:39
You either know the things you need to know or you don't know
36:41
the things you need to know, and you pass or fail.
36:44
It doesn't matter how many other people pass or fail that day.
36:48
GCS, ES are normatively marked. So once they've marked the
36:54
questions, yes, right, correct or wrong, they then put all of
36:59
those grades in and normatively assess them.
37:03
And that is where the grade boundaries are drawn.
37:07
And that we're asking that to happen from grade 5 upwards,
37:11
we're saying you can still assess children on that
37:14
normative curve, but from grade 5 upwards, grades 432 and 1
37:20
would be criterion reference marked.
37:22
You either got it right or you've got it wrong.
37:24
It doesn't matter how anyone else in the country has done is
37:27
a standard, you've either met it or you haven't.
37:30
And if we integrate that into GCSEs, like we're asking in a
37:34
foundation paper, it takes away the stigma for all sorts of
37:38
children because it's not just send children that this effects.
37:41
It affects children that are persistently absent because of
37:43
mental health problems or because they're undiagnosed
37:46
special educational needs. It affects children who are
37:49
disadvantaged and on three school meals and have had
37:51
persistent disadvantage in their life because they are the groups
37:54
of children that fail. The one in three are already
37:57
already disadvantaged and so that's what we're looking for.
38:01
We're looking to make this a level playing field for all
38:04
children. And from, from a couple of
38:09
things, right? First of all, both you and I are
38:12
dyslexic, so we know the stigmas that are attached and the things
38:15
that get thrown at us. You know, I'm going to be
38:19
devil's advocate for a second. Hannah's just trying to make
38:23
exams easier. What would you say to that?
38:27
I would say that we're trying to make them fairer, not easier.
38:31
Children still have a high level of maths and English to prove in
38:36
functional skills. They still need to know ratios,
38:38
percentages, fractions, all sorts of everyday maths.
38:42
Functional skills work because it's more applied format, it's a
38:44
more everyday format. Questions aren't abstract, it's
38:47
not simultaneous and quadratic equations and Pythagoras
38:51
theorem. It's just everyday maths, So
38:55
it's not making them easier, it's making them fairer.
39:01
So at no point we're not lowering standards here, are we?
39:04
We're just making things fairer, to be clear.
39:07
Absolutely. The government already
39:09
recognised functional skills Level 2 as a GCSE equivalent.
39:13
It already exists. We're not asking for something
39:16
new. Lovely.
39:20
And something else we talked about, figures were probably 30
39:27
minutes ago. If we did it your way, what
39:32
money are we putting back into the Bank of the government, for
39:34
example, roughly? I have got that statistic here.
39:40
So if we had more children passing first time round, if we
39:46
had 10% of students avoiding recess because they were sitting
39:49
functional skills or the GCSE equivalent, we would save 33
39:53
million. That's at 10% of students.
39:56
If we had 30% of students passing first time round, we
39:59
save 100 million. But given we know the pass rates
40:03
for functional skills are roughly 60%, that would mean
40:10
£200 million saved every year. This is just, I mean, you just
40:23
want to say why? Like, why wouldn't you?
40:26
Right. We are.
40:28
Let's talk about like a politician first, first kickoff
40:31
rather than parents. We're going to save money.
40:35
Well, yeah, loads actually masses.
40:39
And then let's talk about it from a parent's point of view,
40:43
the heartbreak for the child, the labeling for the child, the
40:47
masking for the child, which we know Joey's doing at the moment.
40:51
And I did so very, very well. Parents will become parents
40:57
again. We wouldn't be having this
40:59
conversation, you and I, you wouldn't even exist, would you?
41:03
Your, your, your Instagram posts would have never happened,
41:07
right? I, I, you have to question, why
41:11
wouldn't they do it? And this is what I can't, and
41:15
This is why I'm so passionate about helping you.
41:17
I, I, I really want to understand why wouldn't you?
41:22
And, and I, I need to find there has got to be somebody that
41:26
listens to this podcast and I know there is, that can come to
41:31
you and I and say, go and speak to this person because I want to
41:37
know why you just wouldn't. It makes no logical sense not to
41:40
do this because we're not lowering standards.
41:44
We're helping, we're saving money.
41:47
We're going to make the economy far better.
41:50
We're going to give children a far better opportunity in life
41:53
because that'd be confidence is the biggest thing you can give
41:56
any child, right. And and one of the things that
41:59
come from you so beautifully is at no point have you said to
42:02
your son sons. Oh yeah, that's a bit of a
42:07
that's a bit of a balls up messing up on that exam.
42:10
You, no parent would do that. We all say it's going to be OK,
42:14
You're going to be OK. We shouldn't have to do that
42:16
because the confidence should just be given to them in the
42:19
school environment. School days are the best days of
42:21
your life. Supposedly, Right?
42:23
Yeah, I yeah, I think, I think, I think it did the other thing
42:31
that I really struggled to get my head around, right.
42:36
You've got children in the classroom understanding a
42:41
subject while while the teachers.
42:44
I've seen my son do it. I see my son sitting there and I
42:48
see my son taking it all in your son, you told me your son in the
42:53
classroom environment did that demonstrates the perfect
42:57
student, right? They demonstrate the knowledge,
43:00
the understanding, everything. And then what happens when we
43:05
get to the written example, the you're a diverse students
43:13
depending on how their new diverse diversity effects them,
43:18
either has the fear of the Red Cross false to pieces, can't
43:24
remember it's up there, but you can't get it out of your filing
43:26
cabinet. We all know you and I both know
43:28
what's that's like. Then the neurotypical student
43:32
excels and continues to remember everything they've learned in
43:35
the classroom. So what we are essentially doing
43:39
by not doing what you're suggesting, in my opinion, is
43:43
everything that this podcast is about, what we're actually doing
43:47
is labeling one child a failure and the other child a success.
43:53
Yeah. Why?
43:58
Why? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a wider
44:01
question, isn't it? Why are we labeling a third of
44:04
our children, 220 thousand of them every year as failures?
44:09
But why? Where does society gain on that?
44:14
Yeah, you, you in your, in your, in your tedet speak.
44:19
You use the words a rigged race, is that right?
44:25
A rigged race. Yeah, yeah.
44:28
Tell me, tell me what you meant by that.
44:32
Well, I use the analogy of the Paralympics and how when we have
44:43
a race for non able bodied people, we don't just put them
44:47
in a line and give them extra time and go against like, you
44:53
know, able bodied people. They they have their own race
44:57
and equally when someone gets an an Olympic medal, we don't say
45:02
it's a Paralympic medal, we say it's an Olympic medal.
45:05
So what I'm asking for is for children to be put in the
45:11
correct race and for the medal at the end to have the correct
45:15
title because functional skills right now.
45:21
Are common sense. Yeah, functional skills.
45:24
Right now, it's like having a lifeboat on a ship but hiding
45:28
that lifeboat under the deck so no one knows where it is because
45:32
they're hidden behind GCSE failure.
45:35
It's, it's, it just doesn't make sense.
45:38
And that's what our campaign is about.
45:41
It's about increasing the PR for functional skills, telling
45:45
people what they are, how to access them.
45:47
You can access them privately. There's a number of
45:49
organisations that offer them privately.
45:51
You can actually even sit them from your own home if your child
45:54
has really bad anxiety. You can get results in the
45:57
matter of days when you go privately.
45:59
They cost roughly 2 to 300 lbs for maths or and for English
46:04
like each so you know you need to have some money to access
46:09
them. But they are an alternative to
46:12
get your child on to their Level 3.
46:14
But unfortunately if you're in the state system they will
46:17
insist. Even once your child's got
46:18
functional skills, they will insist on you keep resitting and
46:23
attending lessons for your GCSE resets.
46:27
They will keep making you do them.
46:29
I don't understand why it's crazy.
46:35
You know, and that, and that analogy there is, is, is a is if
46:39
you, my brain painted the picture of a start line, right?
46:43
And on that start line, you've got 10 kids, right?
46:48
And five kids and you're a diverse and five kids and
46:51
neurotypical, right? And we're starting at the same
46:56
time and we're expecting them to finish the 100m race at the same
47:00
time. In exam terms, in GCSE terms.
47:06
That's crazy. Like if it was, if it was if,
47:09
like you said, if it's the Paralympics, the, the there
47:13
would be, there will be staggered.
47:14
There will be staggered points to where that race run.
47:18
And it's a really, it's a clever way of painting that picture,
47:22
Hannah, because it's an easier way for a parent to understand
47:25
what's going on. And yeah, OK, so I just don't
47:31
want this. I said to you over text the
47:35
other day, I don't want this podcast just to be another
47:38
podcast where we're talking about the system's broken,
47:41
right? I want this podcast.
47:44
I want people to sign your campaign and I am going to make
47:47
it as easy for people as possible beneath to get behind
47:50
you. I want everyone to share this
47:52
podcast. I want everyone to share our
47:54
Instagram post. I want I want this Rambam
47:56
people's faces. So they're starting to go, OK,
47:59
what is this about? But here's the thing, I am, as I
48:04
told you at the beginning, I got a magic wand that I can make
48:06
music play all day. So today for 5 minutes, the next
48:10
5 minutes. Hannah G, you are actually the
48:12
Education Minister for the UK right?
48:16
I want you to build me a fairer system.
48:22
What does it look like? Would there still be written
48:27
exams? Give me an idea of what you
48:30
would do. Tell me a bit probably about
48:35
coursework in your minds. I want you to kind of paint a
48:38
picture for me like you just have with that race analogy of
48:41
how you would do this differently to everybody else.
48:45
There is an amazing organization that in all my research I found
48:49
called Reviewing Assessment. I'll send you their website so
48:53
we can put it in the comments. They have got some brilliant
48:58
examples of schools that they've worked with where they're
49:02
looking at different ways of assessing young people.
49:04
Because like I said in my TE DX talk, actually having a
49:08
brilliant sense of humour. If you have someone like that on
49:11
your team at work, someone that gets everyone laughing and makes
49:15
work fun and helps staff retention, that is an asset.
49:21
If you have someone who everyone follows because they're just a
49:24
natural born leader and you see you can make them a manager and
49:27
everyone gets on with them and enjoys coming to work because
49:30
they're such a great manager, that is an asset.
49:33
And reviewing assessment have looked at ways in ways that
49:36
schools can identify and kind of say to to young people, You
49:40
know, today you showed great leadership today.
49:42
You you handled that. You were really resilient the
49:45
way you handled that awkward situation today.
49:47
You did this and it was, you know, really ingenious way of
49:51
solving that problem. So reviewing assessment is a
49:55
website and I would urge the government to look at it because
49:58
in an ideal world, I don't think exams are the best way of
50:01
showing what we know. The reason we're focused on
50:04
functional skills is because it's the most realistic thing
50:07
that the government can adopt right now and that's why we're
50:09
focusing on them. However, personally I don't
50:13
think exams are a true show of what a person knows because in
50:19
the age of AI that we're living in, just regurgitating
50:23
information isn't enough. We need problem solving,
50:27
creative thinkers who are also really great people, people's
50:32
people, and they are not the things that get rewarded in the
50:36
exam system at schools. So I would radically change
50:40
assessment and I would base it on all the work that reviewing
50:43
assessment have been doing because they've got loads of
50:46
case studies, loads of examples of where they've done things
50:50
differently. And equally coursework.
50:53
There's an argument against coursework and I totally
50:55
understand it. And the argument against it is a
50:57
including yeah, it's increases teachers workload, which is a
51:03
problem because teachers are already overworked and
51:05
overstretched and underpaid. Secondly, it tends to be that if
51:09
you've got a more supportive home, if you've got a more
51:12
affluent home, parents with more time to help you, you're going
51:15
to do better in coursework. And that doesn't seem fair.
51:17
That doesn't help the disadvantaged kids.
51:19
So whilst I think that there is a place for coursework, I don't
51:23
think it is actually the solution.
51:26
I think it's a mixture of, like I said, with reviewing
51:30
assessment. They've got some brilliant ideas
51:32
on their website of different qualities and how you could
51:36
reward them as a school. Yeah, it's, it's certainly food
51:46
for four. And yeah, I'm going to put, I
51:50
want you to send me as much information as you can.
51:52
Let's everybody read it, digest it, and let's get involved.
51:58
Something that popped through my head there when I asked that
52:00
question about making you an education minister and what
52:02
would you do? Would we have will we have to
52:07
explain to employers? So Joe comes to me for a job and
52:12
he's done. Let's just say everything, it
52:15
all goes through and they go, yeah, let's do this.
52:17
Let's make these savings because that's end of the day, it's
52:20
about money. Let's be honest, right?
52:23
And all of our children start to do better.
52:25
Do employers need to start to be made aware of the fact that they
52:29
are going to see different things on CVS?
52:32
What would an employer need to understand about qualifications
52:36
and what it means to them, for example?
52:40
I think most employers are looking for someone that can do
52:43
everyday maths. The majority of jobs in this
52:46
country require people to have everyday applied English and
52:50
maths skills. They are needed.
52:53
They don't need abstract skills in most jobs.
52:58
I'm not anti education, I'm not anti, you know, really bright
53:03
kids. I've got one myself.
53:06
I think they should be given and stretched with those kind of
53:10
abstract concepts. But not all kids because it
53:14
doesn't suit all kids. We've got this education system
53:16
that is 1 size fits all, and we all know there isn't 1 size that
53:21
fits all in society. So yeah.
53:28
Yeah, I think, I think that employers are starting to
53:34
realize that the piece of paper doesn't actually tell the story.
53:41
But unfortunately that's that's the process of the process that
53:45
we have, which I think is also rather silly.
53:47
ACV, you know, maybe in 20 years time we'll do things differently
53:53
with regards to employment. But I totally agree with you.
53:57
I, you know, I'd implore, I'd absolutely beg people to sign
54:02
this campaign. I think it's brilliant and
54:04
amazing. What would you say if you can
54:07
go? I know we've got a new Prime
54:08
Minister. What we go on, go on.
54:10
I. Was going to say just on the
54:12
petition I would urge everyone listen to this to send this into
54:17
your school WhatsApp groups. School WhatsApp groups have are
54:21
such powerful things and we need signatures.
54:25
We desperately need people to sign this petition to get the
54:29
government to take action on this issue.
54:32
And so even if this hasn't affected you personally, even if
54:35
your child failed, sailed through GCS ES, please think of
54:39
your friends who've had kids who haven't passed and where you
54:43
know that it's not the child's fault, it's the system fault and
54:47
just sign on their behalf because we really, really need
54:50
people to write to their MPs. We've got a template on our
54:53
website and please put the petition in any school WhatsApp.
54:57
They don't have to be secondary age because primary school
54:59
children, we're really doing this for them because most kids
55:02
going through the system right now, the change isn't going to
55:05
happen in time. But if your kid is, you know, in
55:07
primary school or from the lower end of secondary school, we
55:11
could put this through and change everything for your
55:13
child. But we really, really need
55:15
people to actually sign it, send it to people, hassle people,
55:19
hassle R and PS. So yeah, I'm with you on begging
55:22
people. Please sign it.
55:24
Yeah, well, send, send me, send me everything.
55:27
And I'm going to put all of your details and everything that
55:30
people need as a file in in the podcast so they can click on it
55:34
and just attach it to their WhatsApp group.
55:36
If you could speak to the Prime Minister, what would you say to
55:38
the Prime Minister? Listen.
55:40
And I Isa did infuriate me. Before I get you to answer this,
55:44
I've seen a couple of podcasters that were invited to do a
55:48
podcast with our last education minister.
55:50
There were obviously loaded questions.
55:52
They'd never get anybody like me on because they wouldn't like
55:55
what they were asked, right? But let's just pretend there's
55:57
no press officers, there's no cameras.
56:00
It's just you and the Prime Minister.
56:02
What would you? What if you could just say a
56:05
sentence to him to make him understand what's going on here?
56:07
What would you say to him? For the first time in a long
56:13
time, this country has finally got hope that change is here.
56:19
You have the power to change a third of children's lives every
56:24
year by implementing functional skills and integrating them into
56:29
GCS ES. You'll save the country money
56:33
and you'll increase young people's confidence and self
56:36
esteem. Again, why wouldn't you, right?
56:42
Why wouldn't you, I mean. Let's hope you listen.
56:45
What? You've done here.
56:47
Yeah. Well, listen, like I said, there
56:49
are people on this podcast that can make these things happen and
56:52
I really hope they do. I think what you do so well, and
56:58
maybe it's maybe it's the dyslexic in you, right?
57:01
Is you are you are articulating everything beautifully, right?
57:05
There isn't there is. I haven't, I haven't looked at
57:09
anything I've read that you've posted or talked about for the
57:12
last, however, how many months I've been following you and
57:15
reading the stuff you do. I've never looked at it and
57:16
gone. What if?
57:18
Well, that wouldn't work because I, I, I, for me, right?
57:26
For me, the logical thing to do, right?
57:28
So everybody knows what I do. So what I do for a living is I
57:32
help children who are newer, diverse, and I supply them a
57:35
product which reads text aloud for them so they don't have to
57:40
muddle through day-to-day life reading text, right?
57:42
That's what I do. But before I do that, I say to
57:46
the school, you know what? Test it yourself, have a pilot
57:50
with it for free and try it right and if it doesn't work,
57:55
tell me what's wrong with it and we'll change it.
57:58
Now I know it works. Everything you've told me tells
58:02
me it works. So I for me, the logical thing
58:06
to do here is a council of a smaller council of a smaller
58:14
community should physically do this and run this as a pilot, as
58:19
a test for a 12 month period and say, you know what?
58:25
This is what's happened. These are the results we've
58:27
seen. These are our findings.
58:29
And Oh my God, this is this is a game changer.
58:33
That's what needs to happen. Someone needs to have a big
58:36
pairs of balls and go, you know what, Hannah, you're right.
58:41
And you, because I know you're right, everyone that knows you
58:45
knows you're right. The system for God knows how
58:49
many years, which is so linear and so straight lined also knows
58:52
you're right. I don't get why they wouldn't
58:55
right? We, we've, we've fundamentally
58:57
shown the cost changes. We've shown what it which is all
59:01
they care about. I hate to say, but it is, it's,
59:03
it's politics, right? It comes down to pennies.
59:05
We are saving millions by doing this, but ultimately we're going
59:10
to change kids lives. We're going to give kids the
59:13
best thing that you can give them, which is confidence.
59:16
Not getting up every day going, Oh my, I mean, I'm dreading.
59:19
I'm dreading give me a voice down now because in the other
59:22
room I'm dreading September because I know next year is the
59:26
next term for my my oldest, his exams and he's already saying,
59:30
Oh my God, I've only got 2 weeks left until I go back to school.
59:32
Why are we doing that to them? So I love you.
59:38
I think you're amazing and I back you 1,000,000% and I want
59:42
everyone please share it pass it out left right and centre I I I
59:47
I I Hannah's a wonderful lady follow on Instagram fair exams
59:53
follow me. Just do what you can to help
59:55
this. It's get it in people's faces
59:57
and if you're listening to this and you want to ask Hannah a
1:00:00
question just. I've put it in the comments in
1:00:04
the podcast, reach out to her on Instagram and and she'll she'll
1:00:08
help you get behind her. Let's support and let's make
1:00:10
this happen. I've got one more question for
1:00:12
you, Hannah, and everyone gets it.
1:00:15
And it's a personal question for me.
1:00:18
The sentence thick no more. What does it mean to you?
1:00:23
It means changing the stereotype.
1:00:26
It means understanding that what you label as thick or stupid is
1:00:34
just one definition. It's an academic definition.
1:00:38
And actually in real life, we all know that the people that
1:00:44
are neuro diverse are the ones that come up with the brilliant
1:00:48
creativity, the art, the music, the drama.
1:00:53
It's a gift, but it just takes you a while to find it once and
1:00:57
you have to get out the education system.
1:00:59
So think no more means what happens once you're out of
1:01:02
education. Beautiful.
1:01:07
So today you've made me cry, which I probably needed.
1:01:11
So listen and I'm sure people listen to this will cry from
1:01:15
everybody that listens to this podcast and everybody that you
1:01:18
are standing up for. Thank you.
1:01:21
Don't ever stop, right? I will support you as much as I
1:01:25
can. I know that somewhere there's
1:01:31
another young person sat at kitchen table believing the
1:01:35
grade on a piece of paper still tells them how intelligent they
1:01:38
are. And I don't personally believe
1:01:40
it should be like that. Right?
1:01:43
There's another parent out there wondering if they're making too
1:01:45
much force by challenging the system by asking the teacher
1:01:49
what's going on or hey, is my son or daughter OK, What's
1:01:52
happening? It doesn't need to be like that.
1:01:54
They're not. You're not.
1:01:55
You're not a pain, so don't think you are.
1:01:58
Conversations like what you are having right now and what you're
1:02:02
doing matter. Hannah, I'm going to ask
1:02:04
everybody who is listening to this to do 2 things.
1:02:09
First of all, if the story resonates with you right, which
1:02:13
I know it will, get behind the fair exams, please get the
1:02:17
petition out there, Sign it, do what you can.
1:02:20
Don't just agree with this. Find the campaign.
1:02:22
It's below. It's going to be right below.
1:02:24
Now. Support it, back it, share it,
1:02:27
and let's make Hannah make enough noise that people have to
1:02:31
have to listen and can't ignore this any longer.
1:02:34
Second thing I want you to do, I need your help, right?
1:02:39
This podcast was never meant to be just another podcast.
1:02:43
It was always to help people like Hannah.
1:02:46
I want to give back because it took me so long to change my
1:02:50
life and realize what was wrong, right?
1:02:52
I want to build a community. I want to help your children.
1:02:55
I want to help you if you're an adult and you're struggling,
1:02:57
right? So it's really important to me
1:03:00
share this as much as you can share it with people who think
1:03:03
want to hear, share with teachers.
1:03:04
You need need to hear, share with Senkos.
1:03:06
Let's get Hannah's story out there and let's do things
1:03:09
differently and let's make people realize they shouldn't
1:03:12
have to sit in a car and cry on their own and believe that's it.
1:03:16
It's not the way it needs to be. We can change it.
1:03:18
Hannah's changing it. Thank you, Hannah, you are a
1:03:21
wonderful person and thank you for being on the podcast today.
1:03:24
Thank you so much, Joe. I really appreciate the
1:03:26
opportunity and all your support is brilliant.
1:03:29
Thank you. I love you.
1:03:32
Don't stop. Please don't stop.
1:03:35
Thank you.