Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Chief Fire Officer Mark Spain says he called the police on firefighters for vandalising fire trucks amid ongoing pay negotiations

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Chief Fire Officer Mark Spain says he called the police on firefighters for vandalising fire trucks amid ongoing pay negotiations · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now you might recall we spoke to the Unions Unions
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: NT last week for an update on the enterprise bargaining
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: agreements for public servants, and the union claimed that negotiations
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: for NT firefighters have become hostile while police and correctional
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: officers are making headway with their EBAs. Now, firees have
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: been writing messages on trucks across the Northern Territory as
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: part of their protected industrial action, and union's ENDT secretary
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Erina Early claims that they're now being investigated for potential
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: criminal behavior. If you miss that interview with her a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: little bit later towards the end of last week, take
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  Speaker 1: a listen to what she'd had to say.
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  Speaker 2: They're quite upset because, you know, getting police officers to
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  Speaker 2: come down one of their owns. They work closely together,
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  Speaker 2: they're part of the try service. They're very upset that
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  Speaker 2: their own chief fire officer and the Police Comission has
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  Speaker 2: done this to them, to try and scare them and
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  Speaker 2: threaten them to stop engaging in their protected industrial action.
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  Speaker 1: So that was Erina Early from the Union on the
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  Speaker 1: show towards the end of Life last week. Now joining
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  Speaker 1: me in the studio is the chief fire Officer for
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, Mark Spain, Good morning to you.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning listers.
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  Speaker 1: Now tell me our firefighters being criminally investigated over writing
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  Speaker 1: on the trucks.
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  Speaker 3: No they're not, but I will put some clarification around that.
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  Speaker 3: On a Saturday, I was informed by the cruise that
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  Speaker 3: it was writing appearing on the appliance as fire trucks,
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  Speaker 3: of which I ordered for it to be washed off,
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  Speaker 3: and then they kept appearing so by the Wednesday. Although
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  Speaker 3: they work under the protected action, I was personally of
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  Speaker 3: the opinion that that didn't fit under the person protective action.
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  Speaker 3: Now you got to remember these fire appliances are one
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  Speaker 3: point one million dollars apiece. They're a community asset. My
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Bronto is two point three million dollars apiece. And I
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: did call the police down on the eighth and they
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  Speaker 3: came for a criminal damage investigation.
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  Speaker 1: They at that did call the police.
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  Speaker 3: I actually called the police. I'll make it very clear
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  Speaker 3: the Commissioner was not involved in this process. I am
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  Speaker 3: the head of the Fire service and I take full
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  Speaker 3: responsibility for calling the police in on that. No one
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  Speaker 3: is above the law, and it was my opinion at
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  Speaker 3: that time that there was criminal damage potentially being done
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  Speaker 3: to our community fire assets.
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  Speaker 1: There will be people listening this morning thinking, wow, you've
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  Speaker 1: called the police on your own firefighters.
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  Speaker 3: It's not the first time I've done it, and I
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  Speaker 3: won't be the last. The reason I'll do that is
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  Speaker 3: once again I'll make it very clear firefighters are not
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  Speaker 3: exempt from the law. We represent the community. We will
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  Speaker 3: work for the community. We're here to serve and protect.
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  Speaker 3: But if anything unto what that I believe is out,
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  Speaker 3: I think it is my duty as the chief officer
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  Speaker 3: to actually report it.
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  Speaker 1: So union claims that they're allowed to protest in this
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  Speaker 1: way as part of their protected industrial action, is that
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  Speaker 1: not the case.
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  Speaker 3: I had further conversation with the Commission of Public Employment
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  Speaker 3: after a period of time. Her opinion and my opinion
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  Speaker 3: is still are different because of the wording in that
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  Speaker 3: protected action. I'm fully supportive for their protected action wearing
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  Speaker 3: the T shirts, they're banners, attending marches to really get
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  Speaker 3: their name out there to say, hey, look, we exist,
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  Speaker 3: we deserve a pay rise, and I actually support that,
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  Speaker 3: absolutely support that. But what they actually do is they
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  Speaker 3: negotiate with OCPE and the units when it comes to
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  Speaker 3: the Anti Fire Rescue Executive. We provide advice to OCP,
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  Speaker 3: but we're not on the bargaining side of OCP or
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  Speaker 3: the union.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I mean, I know that you've said that you
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: are fully supportive of those pay negotiations, but you know,
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  Speaker 1: some listening this morning, you're going to be thinking, well,
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  Speaker 1: calling the police on your own members doesn't really demonstrate
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  Speaker 1: that you are.
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  Speaker 3: And they're wearing their T shirts. They've got a whole
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  Speaker 3: lot of protected action there which are there to design
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  Speaker 3: to disrupt the workplace, and that is to send a
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  Speaker 3: message to government to say, hey, we're here, talk to
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  Speaker 3: us and let's get on with business. But when it
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  Speaker 3: comes to marking a one point one million dollar appliance
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  Speaker 3: or a two point three million dollar appliance in that case,
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  Speaker 3: when it was investigated by a police, they found it
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  Speaker 3: was a it could wash off. It's good, But now
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  Speaker 3: certain elements have now written in permanent marker and it
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  Speaker 3: can't be washed off easily even with a heavy solvent
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  Speaker 3: that's been used and that's been reported to be from workshops.
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  Speaker 3: So now we are in a position where we don't
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  Speaker 3: agree with what they doing with the permanent marker. The
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  Speaker 3: messaging is going to be very clear. They want to
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  Speaker 3: win the community over, they've got to make sure the
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  Speaker 3: messaging is clear and they understand what it's all about.
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  Speaker 1: So you don't have an issue with them writing on there.
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  Speaker 1: If it's in market, that can be washed off. But
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  Speaker 1: the fact that they're writing on this with permanent marker
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  Speaker 1: is what you're upset about.
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's two things about it. One is the authors
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  Speaker 3: of them sometimes need to do a spell check or
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  Speaker 3: they did really miss deliberately misspell it, because and that
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  Speaker 3: will take away from the messaging because if the Joe
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  Speaker 3: public sees this and says, well, hey, these blokes can't spell,
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  Speaker 3: it takes away the message of what they're trying to
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  Speaker 3: sell the government is, hey, we want to pay rise,
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  Speaker 3: Hey we want better conditions, and let's get on with it.
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  Speaker 3: So ask is that they do the spell checks and
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  Speaker 3: move on for that. I do have a problem with
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  Speaker 3: the writing on my appliances or the community appliances because
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  Speaker 3: they have other methods for protected action. As I said,
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  Speaker 3: I have a different opinion from the Commission of Public
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  Speaker 3: Employment about protected action in relation to writing on the appliances.
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  Speaker 1: Now, where are these negotiations at from your perspective, or
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  Speaker 1: is it a situation here that because you're not involved,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you don't really know.
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  Speaker 3: I'm actually the third party that comes in. I'll sit
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  Speaker 3: in on the negotiations. OCP have got the guidelines from
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  Speaker 3: the government, what their restrictions are and what their policy
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  Speaker 3: is to when it comes to negotiations. Union put up
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  Speaker 3: their logger claims and they work through it. What we
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: have to do. They're an all k and a responsibility.
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  Speaker 3: So what I'm responsible for is the financial side of
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  Speaker 3: the house. So we have to do our costings, our
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  Speaker 3: facts and figures to meet within my finite budget and resourcing.
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  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of there's a three way conversation
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  Speaker 3: that goes on, and that's what we have to work through.
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  Speaker 1: We've been told, or we are hearing, that there are
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  Speaker 1: a law of local firefighters that are packing up and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: moving into state and that they're going and doing their
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: fitness tests in other states. Is that something that you've
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: been told at this point.
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  Speaker 3: I've heard it on the rumen mill. I haven't confirmed
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: it yet. However, I've also heard that I'm bringing up
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  Speaker 3: the other fiber Gaze to say, hey, stop stealing our
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  Speaker 3: fire fighters. That is not the case. I'm not allowed
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  Speaker 3: to do that, nor would I want to do that.
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  Speaker 3: Firefighters have their own lifestyles that they have to accommodate for.
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  Speaker 3: There'll be a number of reasons why they want to
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  Speaker 3: head off, but nothing has come through at the moment.
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  Speaker 1: It does sound as though things are sort of getting
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  Speaker 1: a little bit more hostile when it comes to the
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  Speaker 1: negotiations at the moment with the fireies than what it's
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  Speaker 1: maybe been with some of the other government departments or
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  Speaker 1: some of the other forces.
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  Speaker 3: Why do you reckon that is I'm probably going to
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  Speaker 3: light up your text message you here, Katie. But at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's the too pronged approach
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  Speaker 3: from Minight of workers. The first one is to the negotiation,
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  Speaker 3: so they'll do their normal rallies and wear the T
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  Speaker 3: shirts and protected actions to slow it to bring government
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  Speaker 3: to listen. The other one is there are a couple
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  Speaker 3: of elements within the union who want to separate the
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  Speaker 3: executive from the floor. So those members want to actually
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  Speaker 3: control the floor. So by doing that, this is what
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  Speaker 3: will what they'll do to keep us separated from them.
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  Speaker 3: We are all one unit. Now. This is the third
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  Speaker 3: lengthy negotiation that's gone on this goes on for three
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  Speaker 3: or four years and then we roll over to the
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  Speaker 3: next one. So we've had about twelve years of conflict
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  Speaker 3: within the fire service instead of getting on with normal
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  Speaker 3: business now.
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  Speaker 1: Someone has been in contact already this morning and just
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  Speaker 1: now and said wondering what's the difference between the fieries
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  Speaker 1: and the ambos writing on their appliances.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, a Reena said, made mention of it the other
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  Speaker 3: day that it was fair work commission, but there is
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  Speaker 3: a case study in South Australia which is different legislation.
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  Speaker 3: I'll have to point that out. But they were also
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  Speaker 3: ordered to not write on it and not wear their
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  Speaker 3: unit T shirts. We're far more grown up from that.
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  Speaker 3: We want to get the message you crossing, so let's
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: work out a strategy that will get the CB over
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  Speaker 3: and done with so we can get on the normal business.
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  Speaker 1: All right, We are going to have to leave it there,
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  Speaker 1: Chief Fire Officer Mark Spain always appreciate your time. Thanks
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: so much for coming in the studio this morning.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Thanks Katie,