Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Divorce and Mediation - How to "Win"

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Divorce and Mediation - How to "Win" · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast, finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm going to speak about divorce and mediation and how to win.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Recently I recorded a podcast episode as a guest with Nicole Davidson, who's a negotiator, and she works mostly in commercial negotiations, commercial mediation, but the principles are the same.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it prompted me to sit down and record this episode for you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce, mediation, negotiation, how to win.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to step you through a few key points.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the first one is absolutely let go of winning as a concept.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let go of the win-lose concept in mediation or negotiation with your ex or your soon-to-be ex partner.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about mindset, right?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Letting go of that fierce need to win to come out on top.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Letting go of or setting aside that win-lose mindset and thinking more about it being a give-take model, getting to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: The aim of mediation is not to win, it is to get to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably not going to get everything on your wish list, but if you have the aim to get to an agreement, and I'm and I'm going to reiterate that works for both of you, that is a win.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So think too about concession rather than relinquishing.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: What can you concede?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where can you give a little bit in order to get something else that you really want?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a give-take model concession rather than just relinquishing or giving up or just agreeing to get it done.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're dealing with a high conflict X, you can give, you can concede so long as you also get.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than going into mediation or negotiation with a predefined and very positional stance, be open to creative outcomes.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Lead with curiosity.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, absolutely, you need to be aware of and know and understand your legal rights.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So do get advice to enable you then to make empowered decisions.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But be open, be curious, be solutions focused rather than holding that really firm positional stance.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I must have this, I must get this, I must win this.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It is about getting to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, even if they're making it difficult, yes, even if they're challenging, yes, even if you think they're a narcissist, all the things.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is about getting to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: The second point I want to make about winning at negotiation or winning at mediation is be prepared.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: To get to an agreement that works for you, you need to be prepared.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Have everything documented, understand the full picture, the full financial picture of the relationship.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Know where the money is, where it's coming in, where it's going out, get full visibility.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Also be prepared about what are your drop-dead non-negotiables, what are your walk away moments?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: What are they?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Be really clear on what they are so that when you bump up against them, you know, ah, there's one of my non-negotiables.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: That is a walk away moment.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also the flip side of that, where you are willing and able to compromise.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what are your non-negotiables?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where can you, where are you able and willing to compromise without conceding too much, without rolling over, without just getting it done?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what are your absolute walk away moments?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you know that there are four things that are just drop-dead non-negotiables, and your ex-partner is not willing to negotiate around any of those four things, you have to walk.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you bump up against them, those drop-dead non-negotiables, your ex is unwilling to move on.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: What you've already in your preparation predetermined are your walk away moments.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Walk away.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you don't budge.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you don't be tempted to give in and agree to something you'll later regret.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the aim is not to win, it is to get to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you know what they are, you know what they look like, you know when they've bumped up against, and you can walk away.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes walking away from mediation is winning.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, you've got to be realistic about what those non-negotiables are.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be realistic.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely get some legal advice so that you know and are clear on your best and worst case scenarios if this matter were to go to court, if it went to a final hearing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you know and are aware of the range of possibilities and you can work within them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, best case scenario, I'm just pulling numbers randomly, okay.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Best case scenario, your advice is you'll come away with 60% of the financial asset pool.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Worst case scenario, it'd be 50%.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you know that that's where that's where you're gonna work, that's what you're gonna work within, that range.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So be realistic, but be prepared.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Be prepared with knowledge, full financial visibility, what your non-negotiables are, what your drop-dead walkaway moments are, and where you are willing to compromise.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Further to that, tip point number three is understand your drivers.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now I mentioned this in a recent podcast episode being one of the things that can change your experience of divorce.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Understand your drivers and understand what's driving your ex.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: What are your key drivers and what are theirs?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's most important to them and most importantly, why?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that important to them?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's also the same for you.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath your desire or your need to keep this particular asset or this particular thing?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: What you want is important, sure.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: But understanding why it matters is key to a successful outcome.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm talking successful outcome, I'm gonna say it again.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: It is an agreement that works for both of you.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So ask yourself why and ask it five times.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is the thing that came up in my conversation with Nicole.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ask why five times.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's important?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, why is that important to you?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why does that matter?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Keep asking yourself why, and you'll eventually get down to the real reason, what that thing represents.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Your values underpin your drivers.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So understanding your values, getting underneath what's driving this behavior is really key.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same for your ex.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So do the same for your ex.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath your drivers?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath theirs?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself why.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: If your ex wants, I don't know, the piece of artwork that you bought together 10 years ago, why?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: What does that thing represent?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why do they want it?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it important?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why, why?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get really clear on drivers.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It can help you look at areas where you can compromise and also what you can offer when you're wanting something, you can offer something that is high value to them if you understand what drives their decisions and drives their behavior.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Fourth point I bang on about this all the time, but it is really crucial in these highly emotional, activating, high-stakes moments like mediation or negotiation, nervous system regulation and creating emotional safety for you.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing how to dial down your reactivity, knowing how to create a calm nervous system and keep yourself calm in the moment, but also you know, across your life more generally as you prepare for daily for mediation in just your general daily practice, building that in to your daily practice to keep your nervous system well regulated is key.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Know also how to create an emotionally safe space for yourself in the midst of, in the middle of a highly activating experience.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in fight, flight, freeze mode, if you're in amygdala hijack, if you're so fired up or so terrified that you can barely breathe, there is no way you can make objective, future-focused decisions.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So regulate your nervous system, yes, in the moment, but across your day generally, across your life generally, and know how to create emotional safety for yourself.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Know how to do this, practice doing it, creating it in calmer moments so it becomes inbuilt, almost automatic, an almost automatic response, or one that you can tap into in more challenging situations.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's basic skill acquisition stuff.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Learn how to do it when you're calm so that you can do it when you're stressed.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be as simple as having a mantra or a saying that you repeat to yourself.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Pause, breathe, think, speak, or something similar when your emotions are running really high to calm your brain and your body.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, use your breath to calm your nervous system, to bring yourself back down so that you can think.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can't think if you're in fight, flight, freeze, you can't think if you're in amidular hijack.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So bringing that down again with the breath, with a pause, with whatever somatic practice works for you, um, so that you can think before you speak.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Tip number five is expect success.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Go into the mediation with the expectation that it will be successful.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: There will be a successful outcome.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You will get to an agreement that works for both of you.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this you can absolutely frame as a win.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hope for success, expect success, and plan for success.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, in all your preparation, you are planning for a successful outcome.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to call that a win, great.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Believe in the possibility of a successful mediation, a successful negotiation, and trust that there can be an outcome that you're both relatively happy with.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Something to remember here is that our brains don't know the difference between something that we remember or something that we imagine.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you can trick it, you can use it, you can teach it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tell the story.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Tell the story of your successful mediation.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Play the scene to yourself over and over in your mind, and then play it like a movie on a screen, like you're watching it, and then play it again and step into that movie, step into that screen and really feel into the possibility of this story you've created.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Play the story all the way to the end, to that successful outcome that you are expecting and you are trusting in until it becomes a reality.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Play it right through to the end with a happy ending, a successful outcome, a win at the end.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And keep repeating that to yourself in the lead up to your mediation.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Expect success and create a story in your head about the success.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Create a story that you can believe in, that you can feel into.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds a bit woo, I know, but there is science behind it and it works.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Point number six to winning, or tip number six, I suppose, for winning mediation is questioning yourself.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself some questions in the lead up in preparation for mediation.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, following on from expecting success, imagine, imagine that you knew for certain that this was 100% going to be successful, that you would come out with what you feel like is a win.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you knew for certain, if you were 100% sure that this mediation will be successful, that you'll be happy with the outcome, how would that, or would that, I suppose, would that influence and change how you think about it, how you feel about it?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we feel and what we think can change our behavior, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if you knew for certain that this was going to be 100% successful, how would that make you think?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: How would that make you feel?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: What would what would that make you think, and how would that make you behave?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you knew you would win whatever that looks like for you, how would that change how you think about and prepare for the mediation?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: A few more questions to ask.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: How are your current beliefs, thoughts, and feelings influencing your behavior, your choices, your decisions when it comes to mediation and negotiation, and when it comes to your ex?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you feel about the mediation, about your ex and about yourself?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: What stories are you already telling yourself and how can you change that story?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: How can you change the stories that you're telling yourself about the mediation?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes back again to expecting success and building a story that is a successful one for you.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Another really important question to ask yourself is how am I going to show up in mediation?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up for myself in mediation?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to something that I do with a lot of my one-on-one clients, and that is we build out a map almost of the person that they're going to be throughout separation, divorce, mediation, all the things, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes like a manifesto.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I going to be?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up for myself through this process?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is important to me?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So ask yourself that before you go anywhere near mediation.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I going to be in this mediation?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: What am I going to bring into it?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up for myself?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what version of you, what kind of person, what yeah, what version of you, I suppose, will your ex experience as you communicate with them in mediation?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to be for yourself in mediation, and who do you want the other person to experience?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or what do you want the other person to experience?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And very, very importantly, how you show up, how you present, who you want to be for yourself in mediation, how is that going to influence how the other person, how your soon-to-be ex, how your ex behaves towards you?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Will it bring out the best in them or the worst?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, who am I going to be?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up for myself?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And how is that going to impact how they show up in the mediation?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the final question to ask yourself in preparation for a win at mediation is in five years' time, will this matter?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Will this thing still be important or as important as it feels right now five years down the track?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we get so caught up in the small things that at the time seem really, really big, but in the end, in the longer term, they really aren't that important.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So will this thing that I'm stuck on, fixated on, will this actually matter in five years' time?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: As I always do with my clients, I would encourage you to start at the end.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do you want your life to look and feel in five or ten or even twenty years time?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself that final question.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is this thing taking me closer to that future vision I have for myself and for my life?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it actually holding me back?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is it keeping me stuck and keeping me further away from it?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So where do I want to be?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do I want my life to look and feel in five, ten, or twenty years' time?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Come back to the now.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which decision leads me closer to that and takes me there faster?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So finally, I guess, what does success or winning mediation really mean to you?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like for you?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's different for everyone, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing what your version of winning is means you are just that one step closer to creating it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Get really clear on what a successful outcome, not a win, what a successful outcome at mediation looks like for you.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And make each decision incrementally, make sure each decision that you make incrementally takes you forward towards that vision that you have for yourself.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's always somebody on the other side of mediation, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you can only control what you can control.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So define the endpoint for yourself, define what winning or success looks like for you and make your decisions in alignment with that outcome in mind.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thank you for being here.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I hope these quick little tips on winning mediation, winning in inverted commas, of course.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you find them helpful.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes if you would like to book an introductory call with me to discuss working one-on-one with me.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's also an opportunity to in the show notes at the top to click and send me a message.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Would love to hear what you think about the podcast, topics that you'd like me to share on, any feedback or suggestions that you might have, would love to hear from you.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.