Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 427—Entertainment goal, 695 GMAT. Consultant, no GMAT yet. Kellogg vs HBS.

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MBA Wire Taps 427—Entertainment goal, 695 GMAT. Consultant, no GMAT yet. Kellogg vs HBS. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:16
  Speaker B: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, May 26, 2025. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things?
• 0:28
  Speaker A: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: So the US Is off today. It's Memorial Day. But you know, one of the things about living overseas as I do is that I don't really celebrate French holidays living here in Paris because everyone's working in the US but then when it's a holiday in America, everyone's like working here. Kids are off at school, so I kind of work anyway. So I really, I'm getting like, I'm somehow getting, you know, I'm losing out on holidays, I feel like.
• 0:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, and you've had a very intense schedule lately and congratulations. I mean, obviously the online virtual events that, that you finished up hosting last week as well as the Boston events and so forth. I mean, it's been a manic may to kick off this upcoming season for Clear Admit for sure.
• 1:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. Oh yeah. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I had such a great time in Boston. I actually, I meant to tell you, I met some folks who listened to the podcast. There were two people who came up to me and said, hey, I listened to the show, love it, you know, and so I think those were our two listeners, actually. They just both happened to be in Boston that. But yeah, I really appreciated that. And so you know who you are if you're tuned in. We met a couple of our listeners. It was really nice to have that one on one. And I just wished you were there, Alex, because it would have been fun to, I don't know, do like a live podcast or something. But it was cool.
• 1:46
  Speaker A: This, this show is non political and we'll keep it at that.
• 1:50
  Speaker B: Oh, right, right. So, well, anyway, yeah, the other thing is, yeah, we heard from a admissions director that they listen, that they listen regularly and then tell the office what they're hearing. So we love that too. But yeah, it's been busy you week. We did a virtual event with. There was Stanford, Yale, ut, Austin, Wharton and Columbia. And there were like I think 600 and some people tuned in and yeah, a lot of great questions. And you've been taking the summaries of those events and putting them into the Ask Clear Admit bot or the, well, the large language model that fuels the bot.
• 2:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And McCombs was in that event too.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: Right.
• 2:30
  Speaker A: But yeah, it was absolutely fantastic. And now like you say, we can get transcripts from these events and they can train Ask Clear Admit Bot. So I think it's absolutely fantastic because, you know, I think our website's brilliant and our publications team put out some terrific content. But just training based off of raw transcripts of live events where admissions offices are really giving some really interesting insight, I think really does add another layer of the quality of content we're now able to offer candidates and admissions folks alike.
• 3:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. So a lot of fun. I'm hoping to have a slightly quieter few weeks coming up, but we are going to do. I don't have any links yet for anybody, but we will do a series of four essay workshops in July. That's actually our most popular series each year. And so that's going to be announced very soon. We have, you know, five schools each week over the course of the month of July that we sit down with and talk about their essays. So those will be coming virtual events usually at noon Eastern. So stay tuned on that front. Yeah, it's just been. It's been great. I will say that, you know, we still need more reviews and ratings and, and people just spreading the word about this podcast. So if you are in a position to do so, please get the word out. Otherwise. Alex, I wanted to mention we. We published some pretty good stuff on the website in the last week. One thing was Peggy on our team did this really expansive piece on teaching methods, which I think is timely as people start to look at business school and maybe think about applying for next year or even if you're trying to figure out where to go, you've got some offers in hand and you want to get a sense of like, what's awaiting you in business school. This piece really breaks down, you know, lecture, case, team projects, experiential, all the different sort of ways that business schools convey knowledge to their students. So it's a really good piece to read.
• 4:29
  Speaker A: No, absolutely. Fantastic. And you obviously were at Wharton. I mean, I know it's almost several years ago now, Graham, but how would you characterize that overall sort of teaching methodology?
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. So Wharton's interesting in that it's kind of a mix. Right. So it's. There's some lecture where, you know, literally there's a, you know, I remember some of my finance classes, you know, teacher at the chalkboard kind of stuff. But then there are a lot of cases where you're reading about a specific business situation and having to weigh in. Team projects. Wharton has these learning teams that you travel through the first curriculum, first year curriculum with, and you have a lot of teamwork and then experiential, you know, that's a big thing. I mean, there are a number of schools that have really pushed that. One of them that comes to mind is Michigan, Ross, where you're, you know, out there in the field like doing stuff with companies. So yeah, there are all these different ways and most schools, it's kind of a mix. Obviously there's some schools, uva, Darden, Harvard that are very case focused. But you know, in most cases you're going to find a mix of these different things, but it's good to know what they all are.
• 5:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. So in Michigan, Ross, you talk about their MAP program.
• 5:35
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Very, very big there. So, yeah, the other thing we did is we ran a piece about fafsa, which is kind of US Financial aid, so government financial aid, which, you know, a lot of people have been talking about in the news. But there's a good FAQ that we published about that and even includes some tips and thoughts about what's to come in that domain. So if you've got an offer and you're starting to think about how to finance your MBA and you're American, this is also good stuff to read on the site.
• 6:00
  Speaker A: I need to read that.
• 6:02
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's complicated. Yeah, so it's complicated.
• 6:06
  Speaker A: And it's all. It's just one of those aspects of admissions, which again, I think is really, really important, like how you financing the degree that I've spent about 25 years really trying to ignore. So I do need to get up to.
• 6:20
  Speaker B: You should have come in Boston. We had the guys from Juneau do a lecture about how to pay for business school. And obviously they're pitching their group loan. They do a kind of Groupon type thing where the people who got into top schools come together and go to the banks as one, which is fantastic. Right. But they also just talk generally like what does it cost and how do most people finance it? And are they taking some government loans along with private loans? Are they, you know, liquidating some savings? Like. So it was a really good lecture that they gave one of the sessions at the fair. So. Yeah, no, it's important stuff for sure now.
• 6:52
  Speaker A: Very cool.
• 6:53
  Speaker B: One other thing we did is we published two more real numbers pieces where we just kind of. There's not. They're not really articles so much as they are like charts. And so we ran out to. One is about consumer packaged goods placements at leading business schools and the other about healthcare placements. It's kind of fascinating to see and I guess it could Be misleading. But you know, you look at like who's leading the way with the percentage of the class going into CPG and it's schools like Minnesota, Carlson 20%, Florida Warrington, 17%, Michigan State Broad 16%, Brigham Young 15%, Indiana Kelly 14%. These are like the top percentages out there. If you look, look at like the M7. Kellogg leads the way in the CPG category with 7% of their students going into that space. So any thoughts on that?
• 7:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think these real numbers pieces are really good at sort of, you know, highlighting the, the actual data points, but they don't tell the full story. And it's, it's very important to recognize. I mean, there's perhaps a reason why let's say the M7 don't compete so well with some of these careers because a lot of their candidates are chasing after the MBB type work and the private equity and investment banking type work, which might not be as prevalent as an opportunity for schools, let's say, in the top 20, 25 tiers and so forth. So yeah, I think this is really insightful, but make sure you understand the full context of the story when you're interpreting these types of numbers.
• 8:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And the same thing for healthcare. I mean, we see some schools that are, I mean, mostly in markets that are known for healthcare. So you see Irvine Mirage down In Southern California, 21% go into healthcare. Boston College, big biotech market, 17% go into healthcare. Rochester Simon, 15%. Indiana Kelly on this list too, 14%. And Vanderbilt, a known healthcare market, 14%. But when we look at the very top schools, Kellogg's leading the way there with 9%. So again, Kellogg doing very well in both these categories for top schools.
• 9:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you make another really important point, that sort of regionality. So these schools are doing really well because the industries are in their region.
• 9:14
  Speaker B: Right.
• 9:14
  Speaker A: And so forth. So, so yeah, that makes a lot of sense for both health care as well as consumer packaged goods, which I assume is more tilted toward the Midwest.
• 9:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So in any event, good stuff there. And speaking of these kind of career things, we continue to talk to alumni of these business schools and in our Real Human series. So we caught up with Marissa who works at Amazon. She graduated from Yale som. She's a senior program manager at Amazon. And she's originally from San Francisco, went to Cal Berkeley for undergrad studying psychology and economics. And before business school she'd actually worked in strategy and M and A integration. So she'd been at Goldman. And we asked her what's a piece of advice that you wish you'd been given during your mba? And she said, and I feel like this is a recurring theme, but she said, take a few classes just for fun. One of my favorites was entrepreneurship in the art market. We heard from guest speakers like Jeff Koons, the world's highest paid living artist, and discussed creative processes alongside students from the Yale School of Art. I've always enjoyed museums, but this class gave me a whole new appreciation for art. It's easy to get tunnel vision with career goals, but stepping outside that can be both refreshing and inspiring. So I had to pick that quote, Alex, because I'm a big art, you know, art history buff. And so I just thought that was kind of interesting.
• 10:36
  Speaker A: I think it's really good to step out of your comfort zone and really good to sort of really learn something very different and so forth. So, yeah, this is really good, actually, despite the fact that it's about art and art history and stuff.
• 10:53
  Speaker B: There you go. We also caught up with Maria, who works at Disney. She went to IMD Business school in Lausanne, Switzerland. She graduated a couple years ago and she is a product manager over at Disney. She's originally from New York, and it was really interesting. She talked a lot in her kind of interview about why she went to IMD from New York. And she'd gone to Princeton for undergrad majoring in ecology and evolutionary biology with a minor in entrepreneurship. And so, you know, anyway, went to imd, I guess she had done some consulting work prior to business school, tech consulting for media and entertainment. And she said, we asked her what was one thing you would absolutely do again as part of the job search. And this is really interesting. She said the most helpful thing I did in my job search was to narrow down 10 companies that I was most interested in working for and set up a daily LinkedIn job alerts for them. It was helpful to see the pace at which these target companies were hiring and in what departments. This helped me to understand which companies were more realistic to join at that moment in time and for those who really weren't hiring, perhaps pivot my focus away from them. So I thought. And she did this in parallel to all the assistance she was getting at imd, But I think it was more to, like, keep her finger on the pulse of, like, which of these companies seem to be hiring a lot and where there might be opportunities. So I thought that was kind of interesting.
• 12:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, very clever stuff. I would use also OpenAI use their deep research and do deep research reports on Each of the companies you're targeting. Right. To really understand the competitive marketplaces in which you're exploring. And that would obviously help with your interview preparation and so forth. But I'm curious, Graham, why did she choose to go to ind? Presumably her career to date and academics had all been US bound beforehand.
• 12:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, it was interesting. So she had a fair amount of experience prior to business school. She, you know, had gone to Princeton and she, you know, she'd done really well. And I think she, I feel like she said she wanted to have like a really different experience and she's really interested in Europe. I think she may have some like more distant sort of family ties to Europe in terms of her background. And so she wanted to get to Europe and just have this kind of year there. And obviously she's pivoted back and you know, she's working for Disney in the US as far as I know. So. Yeah, so it just sounded like it was a great experience. And I think she liked the compact one year IMD program. It's kind of a January to December format and that suited her.
• 13:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's everything that's off about IMD other than it is a great program, but they're off cycle. It's in a different market completely in Europe. So it wouldn't have been the obvious choice. And we very much lean when we're giving advice on target programs, to identify the target programs that are in the region in which you want to pursue your post mba. Right. So a lot of our advice is sort of counter to what this person has done. But there is a little bit of us that does say for some folks, this is your one opportunity in a lifetime now going forward to get a completely different experience under your belt. And it seems like she's gone down that path. And I think that's you've got to be a bit more risk tolerant, I would say, to take this path. But what a great experience if you can pull it off and then come back to the States for your career.
• 14:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think she, yeah, she's landed on her feet, clearly. So. And she raved about the experience she had at imd. So it's very close knit. Yeah. So we also talked to Nikita, who went to Cornell and works at Invenergy, which is a climate kind of sustainability energy firm, graduated way back in 22, is a senior manager. Nikita is originally from India and had studied chemical engineering there before business school. Had done eight years of work experience. I think it was all in the energy sector. And we asked Nikita like Why Cornell Johnson? Like, what were the factors? And Nikita says, I was drawn to Cornell for several differentiating factors. One is a smaller batch size. So the class size is kind of smaller, which translates to a tight knit network and meaningful connections in the MBA community. In addition, I was impressed with Cornell Johnson's programmatic approach to energy and sustainability. And finally, I found the myriad opportunities to draw knowledge from Corne. These multidisciplinary schools were highly beneficial. So that was the reason. And obviously Nikita has landed in that sector that was targeted in terms of climate sort of sustainability and renewable energy and stuff.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: No, Fantastic. Absolutely.
• 15:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. So we got a couple more. It's been a busy, busy week on the site. But we talked to where is it Warren, who went to Wharton and his chief of staff for a company called epnas. I think, I don't know if I'm pronouncing this right technology, but again, one of these, I think they're in the kind of decarbonization space. So another kind of sustainability type company, Warren's originally from Bulawayo in, I think it's in Zimbabwe and then also Johannesburg, kind of split time before coming over to Wharton, went to University of Cape Town for undergrad, studied economics and finance and had been working, I guess at a wireless company and also some time with McKinsey prior to coming to business school and even a little bit of a stint in banking. So lots of experience prior to business school and now works, you know, for this kind of climate tech company. And, you know, we asked, like, what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of the job search. And Warren says, our career service, career services always advise us to have a plan A, B, C, D, etc. I heard that, but didn't listen. And the lack of a backup plan led to a lot of anxiety during the recruiting process. I eventually added a couple of new tactics to my overall strategy after I'd already started the process. And while I ended up in a role that was essentially my plan A, I credit part of that success to the reduced anxiety that came with having a backup plan for my backup. So anyway, so I guess what Warren is trying to say is when the career services tell you to, like, think through a few possibilities, you should do it. Because if you only have focus in one area, you might end up just having a lot of nerves as you go through the process.
• 17:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I like the perspective. It just takes the pressure off a little bit.
• 17:36
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: And therefore probably makes you more effective for your plan A and so forth. So yeah, really good advice. Although, again, in admissions, it's got to be about plan A. Unless you're explicitly asked about a potential Plan B.
• 17:53
  Speaker B: It's funny, yesterday in the. I think it was in one of the breakouts, and I want to say it was with Wharton, but at our virtual event, a prospect asked like, hey, I have this goal, but I also kind of have a secondary goal that I would pivot to if that doesn't work out. And some schools ask for plan A, plan B, and some just asked for one goal, what should I do? And the response was, hey, focus on that primary goal and materials. But if you want, in the optional essay, you could mention that, you know, you're also thinking of this if you. If plan A doesn't work out. But it depends on the school, because some schools will literally ask you for, like, what's your plan A and Plan B. I think nyu.
• 18:29
  Speaker A: My rule is always if they don't ask, don't disclose.
• 18:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. It's probably best to stick to that.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: All in on plan A. Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker B: There are a couple of schools, I think unc, maybe nyu, that ask some. Yeah.
• 18:42
  Speaker A: So, yeah, some do ask.
• 18:43
  Speaker B: Yeah. Finally, we caught up with Jesse, who went to Chicago booth and is a finance manager over at American Express. Jesse was actually born and raised in Shanghai, moved to the US for high school when she was 16, and has been in the States ever since. And she went to Emory and studied economics and linguistics as an undergraduate, then worked for NERA Economic Consulting. Great firm. It's kind of a. I've seen a lot of people come from there and go into business school. It's a niche kind of economic consulting shop. And we said, what was one thing you would absolutely do again as part of the job search? And Jesse responded, keep an open mind and stay organized during the process. Job search can definitely be a stressful process, but staying organized can help you go a long way. For example, building a tracker to jot down all application deadlines and record application status can ensure that you do not miss the deadline of a company that you really like while juggling school recruiting and other priorities. So pretty good advice from Jesse, too, huh?
• 19:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. Organization, really, really important.
• 19:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. So, anyway, that was a lot. I know we. But I love those. These interviews. We do. And I encourage anyone who, if any of that piqued your interest, head over to the site. Because I'm just giving you a tiny quote from what are, you know, generally pretty long articles with these individuals who, you know, they've done the mba, they're out there in the workforce now and they have a lot of great insights to share.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:04
  Speaker B: All right, so I think we should probably start talking about this week's candidates. Unless you had anything else, Alex, let's kick on. All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has just four schools on the target list. Those schools are Columbia, NYU, Stanford and Yale. This person is going to be applying this coming fall to start in 26. They've been working in consulting with a specific kind of financial services bent. If I understand correctly, they want to move out of that and get into media. Their GMAT score is a 695. That translates to like a 740. 750 on the old scale. In case you're curious. They had a 3.8 in undergrad and they went to a top 20 US undergraduate program. They say six years of work experience. They're located in New York, they want to stay in New York and they say they grew up in New York. So they're, they're all New York and that's, that's their focus. They did say that they've had a couple of different roles prior to business school, that the companies they work for are nationally, are not nationally recognized names, but they're known in their specific industries. And they mentioned that they do some volunteer work and outside activities. They play on some intramural sports teams and they also have been volunteering for the last four years at a nonprofit theater. They say they don't have any leadership roles in that stuff, but that they're, you know, active and they're thinking about, as I said, pivoting into the entertainment industry. So what do you make of this candidacy, Alex?
• 21:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, this does sound like a really strong candidate altogether, But I want to pick up just quickly on this one thing that they pointed out. They, they've not worked for nationally recognized firms, although they're recognized in their industry. What's your response to that, Graham?
• 22:01
  Speaker B: I'm not worried about that. I mean, I think that, you know, as long as they do a good job of explaining what their role is and what the, you know, in some cases, like what the company does and as long as the recommenders are on point and know, know the work, I'm not worried about that. I don't think, I mean, you know, particularly now, some of it's may be tainted or influenced by the fact that they have really stellar numbers and seem to be very successful. Right. But I don't, I don't think schools are Saying we need this many people from McKinsey each year or from this brand name firm. I think they're looking for good experience.
• 22:31
  Speaker A: Right, I completely agree. And you know, the advantage that McKinsey or Bain or you know, pick your top bank or whatever brings to your CV is that the ADCOM already understands some stuff. Right. Because of that brand. So I just think it's up to the applicant to, to like, as you say, do the explanation and provide that context and make sure it's backed up and supported by the recommenders and so forth. But you know, it's going to add more sort of diversity to the classroom, to the discussions, etc. When you've got really strong folks from different organizations all conversing together and so forth. So I'm not worried about that issue at all. As long as it's clear that, that this work experience is strong, there's growth, there's impact, etc. Etc. I think everything else in, in this profile looks really good, Graham. I mean, they've got great numbers as you articulated, and I love the non profit theater stuff. I think that somewhat aligns with their goals in, in sort of the entertainment sector. I certainly think that they need to add Wharton to their Round one list. And you know, if, if that sort of makes things a little bit, you know, too much in terms of Round one, then I, I think they can drop a couple of those that they have in their Round one list to Round two. They're not going to be overrepresented in the pool. So Round one, two, three shouldn't make a difference. But I would throw Wharton directly into Round one here. Graham. This I do believe, with good execution, this is a strong candidate.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, what I would encourage this person to do is have a conversation with the media and entertainment clubs at the schools that they're targeting and I would also encourage them to talk to the Media and entertainment Club at Wharton and at hbs. And the reason I say that is because, you know, they want to land in New York. So, you know, brilliant to have, you know, Columbia and NYU on the list. I mean that, that makes a lot of sense. That's the market they're targeting. But I think there's some other schools in the Northeast, namely Harvard and Wharton, that do quite well in media and entertainment and that it would be worth kind of getting to know a bit better. And I also think, as you say, if that makes the list too long, they could push some schools into round two potentially and just see where the chips fall first in round one. But I like this profile. They have really stellar numbers, went to a great undergrad, decent outside activities, what would seem to be good work experience and a clear set of goals that nicely. There's a thread there with their outside interest in theater that makes, kind of explains this pivot, this interested pivoting into entertainment. So yeah, I would, I would have those conversations with the schools and their, their clubs and, and then get some clarity on the target schools. But yeah, I feel like this is a great candidacy and, and yeah, nothing really to worry about at this point.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: I think we, we can agree on that one.
• 25:32
  Speaker B: All right, so I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has a larger list of target schools. They've actually got nine on the list and that includes Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Kellogg, nyu, Stanford, Chicago, UNC and Wharton. And this person is also targeting the fall of 26 for, to begin the MBA program. They've worked in consulting prior to business school. They explicitly stay with Deloitte. They're looking to potentially stay in consulting. They may be sponsored actually. So they would, if they're sponsored, have to go back to Deloitte. They also talk about how if they're not sponsored, they might pivot into, you know, a McKinsey Boehner BCG after business school, looking to kind of get into sort of more pure strategy consulting. And then they have some longer term goals that may involve healthcare or kind of entrepreneurial pursuit. They've got a 3.0 GPA, seven years of work experience. They're located in South Carolina, but they're trying to end up in Chicago or San Francisco after business school. And they state that they studied biology as an undergrad, that their career, as I said, has been in consulting. And you know, they may be sponsored. They're looking at Stanford as their favorite school. As you'll note, I didn't report a GMAT or GRE score and that's because they haven't yet taken the test. They're working on it. They're actually the big day is June 21st. They shared. So they're working towards taking the GMAT and you know, have been focusing on that. They do have some extracurriculars that they shared, both work extracurriculars and personal life. They, they volunteer at animal shelters. They've led a field team for a local mayoral campaign and they tutor unhoused children in a home for battered women and children. So they, they mentioned that work and MBA prep have taken over their life. So they've been a little less involved lately than they would have liked to be. But they, you know, have these on their resume things they do. And they also did say that they graduated cum laude with a BS in biology and minors in chemistry and Spanish. So that's kind of the background. They gave us a lot of other details too. But I'll kind of stop there. I want to, want to kind of hear what your thoughts are. You know what, like where do they need to land on that GMAT score? And yeah, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 27:55
  Speaker A: Again, I think this is a really strong candidate, but they've got to deliver on that test score and they, they're, they're a little concerned about the quant component and so forth. So, so yeah, whatever they can do to get that score in the ballpark for their target programs will be, would obviously pay big dividends. They're a top performer at work, or at least they describe themselves as a top performer at work. So they, they, they have that potential for getting the sponsorship. It looks like they do really good stuff outside of work. They have a long term entrepreneurial plan to join forces with their sister to, to, to establish dental practices. They've got some connection with South America too. They've done some work in Peru and so forth. They have that Spanish minor or whatever. So it just seems to be again, like our first candidate. There's just so much to like here. The only difference is we don't yet have that test score. So I'm really rooting for them and I think the ADCOM would root for this type of profile and hopefully they can go to the top programs they aspire to be. And we talked about this a little bit before coming on air. Maybe being sponsored adds an additional sort of cache to a profile these days, especially in this more uncertain. And that's a. As political as I'll get. This more uncertain sort of climate in which we're, we're navigating.
• 29:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I have a couple of thoughts on this candidate. So I agree with you. I mean there's a lot to like here. They've done some really interesting things. I mean, I'm even, you know, drawn to their kind of background in biology and chemistry. And that fits with their entrepreneurial goal of setting up a series of dental practices. Their sister happens to be a dentist. Right. So they have that. They want to bring the business savvy to building out something. Right. So I get that. And consulting in the short term makes sense. I agree with you. If they can get sponsorship from Deloitte. I would almost argue that adds like 10 points to their GMAT score or more. Right. It's a feather in their cap that makes them appealing to schools because not only is the employer saying, this person's so great that we want to pay for them to go to business school and have them come back, but they're also guaranteeing a job. So any candidate that comes into business school who, you know is going to be able to pay the bill and have a job afterwards is a, is a great person to bring in. Right. So in any event, I think this person, I don't want to put undue pressure on them with the test. Like, I think, as you say, the test is going to be important and they should be serious about prepping for it. But I wouldn't say it's, you know, it's the end all, be all. I mean, I'm hoping they get, you know, sort of within range of their target schools. But being sponsored and coming from a good firm like Deloitte helps, you know, and having very realistic kind of career plans and a really interesting, well rounded background. So there's a lot of other things here that will lift them. So all this to say I don't think they need like a, a perfect score on the test to be competitive. I think they should, you know, do their best and try to get that sponsorship, though, because it will help.
• 31:07
  Speaker A: But a perfect score would be better, Graham?
• 31:10
  Speaker B: Well, yeah, yeah, of course. It's always better.
• 31:12
  Speaker A: I'm kidding, right? I certainly don't think they need to get a perfect score, but, but they've identified this as a potential weakness in their profile. And yeah, my point is more, the more, the, the more they can mitigate for that and so forth, the better. Because everything else does look so pretty. Pretty damn good.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. And they have a wide range of schools on their list, so I think they will get in to one of these schools and I, you know, they'll probably need to narrow that list a little bit, but I think they can do that once they have a score in hand.
• 31:43
  Speaker A: And I. Yeah, and I think the wide range is just a function of their nervousness about this test score.
• 31:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. So in any event, I want to wish them best of luck on June 21st when they take the test and, yeah, just, you know, work hard and, you know, it's just something you got to get out of the way. And I think, yeah, they're going to land on their feet. So I'd be curious if they can keep us updated. That would be terrific. But best of luck and thanks for sharing the profile.
• 32:09
  Speaker A: Summer solstice.
• 32:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week again comes from a decision wire entry that you picked, Alex, something you've been doing for the last several weeks. Now this candidate applied to Chicago Booth, Harvard, Michigan, Kellogg and Yale. And they ended up getting into Michigan, Kellogg, Yale. Right off the bat they actually got some money and I'll get into that in a second. They got, let's see, what is it? They got $170,000 from Kellogg. That's basically a full ride. Yale gave them 140, Michigan 60. But what also happened is they were initially waitlisted but ultimately recently accepted to Harvard Business School. And so they basically, you know, so they did really well, right? They got into a lot of these schools, they got some serious money and their career plan is to get into venture capital or private equity. And they listed a whole number of firms. They had a 715 on, on the GMAT, which is like a 780 or something on the, on the old test. So very, very good GMAT score. This candidate's located in India and they mention, as I said, accepted to HPS off the round two wait list. Very torn about whether to accept their offer over the full ride offered by Kellogg. So it sounds like they've narrowed it to those two schools which I understand Kellogg gave them the most money and is probably the highest ride frank school of all the others. And then Harvard's come in last minute with an offer but they mentioned they're not going to get any money at Harvard. It's need based and it sounds like they don't need the money so they're gonna have to pay if they go to Harvard. So what do you make of this Alex? Like what should they do?
• 33:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think a lot of the answer to this is their career goals and their aspirations and it's sort of in that private equity VC space. So I would have to say that their actors opportunities are going to be better at Harvard and might be better quite significantly just because of that they wanted to go into that space. I mean I know folks that chose Kellogg over Harvard for different reasons. So I'm not saying everyone should always choose Harvard over Kellogg. But if you're going after these more sort of elite career aspirations and so forth, the increased opportunity at Harvard is probably worth paying the price. Now obviously they're coming from India, so you know, do they have the ability to finance it themselves, how risk tolerant are they, etc. Etc. That needs to be factored in. And they've also got to do a little bit of planning about worst case scenarios, I. E. They don't get the offer and they need to return to India and so on and so forth. But I, I would say if they can make it happen, Graham, they should go to Harvard.
• 35:14
  Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah. This is a tricky one for me because I feel like, I mean, that is a lot of money. I mean, it's basically free to go to Kellogg. And we know that the M7 do best in private equity and venture capital, but that it's very weighted towards Harvard, Stanford and Wharton. So what you're saying, like, there'll be more opportunities in private equity and venture capital out of hbs. And I. The only thing that gives me pause is, wow, it's free to go to Kellogg and they don't have that pressure of paying back loans if, you know, things go south and they can't get a job in the States, have to go back to India or something. So, yeah, it's really. I guess it just depends on their risk profile, like what are they willing to sort of take on here. And I would encourage them as well to do some due diligence, like talk to the private equity venture capital club at Kellogg. Just, just get a feel for like, what's happening there and at Harvard as well. But yeah, this isn't easy to me. I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I still feel like, I mean, it's a lot of money on the table here, so. Yeah, very challenging, no doubt. Yeah. Boy, I hope that they tell us what they ended up deciding. So they keep us posted. But yeah, obviously congratulations to them. Some really big dollars and a lot of acceptances. They basically got in everywhere except for Booth for some reason. So good work on their part. It's impressive.
• 36:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is a very, very strong profile. Lots of great options. Therefore, I think they need to be a bit risk tolerant and aim high. Yeah. Anyway, very good. And like you say Kellogg free. Free tuition or Kellogg or whatever is brilliant. So if they do choose that, then, yeah, I, I certainly wouldn't. Would. Wouldn't fault them for, for choosing. It's that sort of notion. And I know Elliot goes on about this, the notion of regret. If you choose Kellogg, will you regret not having the opportunity, not taking up the opportunity to go to Harvard?
• 37:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. So anyway, something they can contemplate as they make their decision. About where to deposit. In any event, Alex, thanks for picking out these candidates. It's always exciting to talk about these different profiles and. And some really amazing individuals this week, as always. So let's get together though week's time and do this all again, if you're willing.
• 37:28
  Speaker A: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.
• 37:49
  Speaker B: Of.