Latest / Auto Collabs / All Roads Lead to Greenfield with Steve Greenfield

Transcript

All Roads Lead to Greenfield with Steve Greenfield · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  I don't know that anyone has ever asked before, but we're about to hear Steve Greenfield's origin story. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. That story is the one I... No spoilers, Kyle.
• 0:18
  But I've- I can't believe I've never asked before, like, "Hey, tell us about how you got into auto." I think the AutoNation side of it, we just, like, accepted that as, like, what it should be.
• 0:31
  But he- Steve is, by far, in my opinion, one of the most interesting men in automotive, and one of the most thoughtful men in automotive.
• 0:39
  You know, speaking of origin stories, I, I feel like every podcast I go on, including Michael Cirillo's, has some level of like, "Tell us your origin story. How did you get into auto?"
• 0:49
  Which I feel like at this point, someone should have asked Steve Greenfield. But I've listened- [clears throat]... to a lot of podcasts and seen Steve Greenfield on a lot of things, and I've never heard that.
• 0:58
  And so, uh, yeah, it's, it's super interesting story.
• 1:02
  But one of the things that I think is, is really cool about Steve Greenfield is the way that he, like, service from, in his mindset of the industry, is, like, a through line of everything that he does.
• 1:17
  His goal is to literally serve at all costs. It doesn't matter if it's a VC fund. It doesn't matter if it's a, a monthly email or a LinkedIn profile or a Clubhouse room. It doesn't matter.
• 1:30
  There is, like, this deep core in him that just says, "Hey, I'm here for you." And that is- Is that because he's Canadian?... infectious. Probably. He's got a queen. Is that- Do- It's something about Canadians, man.
• 1:42
  It's 'cause he has a queen. We don't open our mouths until we know what we're talking about. [laughs] I'm just saying. Is that how it... Is that how it goes? [laughs] I, I- It, it's true though.
• 1:48
  I'm excited to, I'm excited to, to learn more about this because, you know, especially when you read his posts on LinkedIn or you see any of his output, it's clear that he isn't just speaking from the hip.
• 2:02
  He has clearly formulated a thought process looking so deeply into the future and learning so deeply from the past that what he spits out, you're like, "Oh, man, I never thought of it to that degree," which is a breath of fresh air in the industry today where everyone just kinda chirps, right?
• 2:18
  So I'm excited to learn about how he became who he is today and, and, and how he got into it all. Well, that's perfect- Well, tell, tell me some-... because, uh, we should just, we should just check out the interview.
• 2:29
  Okay. Okay, I'll s- Yeah, we'll catch you on the back side of it for sure. [laughs] [upbeat music] Steve, thank you so much for giving us some time. It's good to see you just, uh, full of energy.
• 2:47
  [laughs] Good to see you guys, too. Thanks for having me. So I think over the last, I don't know, 12 to 24 months, probably most poignantly in the last 12 months, it seems that your audience has grown quite a bit.
• 3:00
  Um, I just... This is what I observe on social media, um, and just the conversation I have and the people that want you to come in and give your feedback. Uh, you know, you have the investment arm going.
• 3:11
  And I think it's important for people to understand where you came from. [laughs] 'Cause I think it's easy when someone's there, people just accept, "Oh, it's Steve Greenfield. He does these things now."
• 3:20
  But, um, the reason you can do these things now is because you did these things before you did the things that you do now. [laughs] So, um, give us... This is a question we've been asking some people.
• 3:29
  How did you get into the auto industry, period? Like, what was your first step into the, the, the auto world? Well, no surprise, probably like a lot of people, it wasn't exactly intentional, right?
• 3:39
  So I found myself, you know, with a general arts undergrad degree and, uh, largely unemployable. And, uh- [laughs] Like, like a lot of us. Yeah. And, uh- Yeah...
• 3:50
  my, my, my, my, my buddy, one of my best friends from high school, was a systems administrator, a computer guy at an auto auction on the outskirts of Toronto where I grew up.
• 3:58
  So I get a call one night and he says, "Steve, they're looking to, uh, to hire a technology manager." And I'm like, "What is that?" They're like, "Oh, you're gonna be selling software to car dealers."
• 4:09
  I'm like, "Why am I qualified for that?" He goes, "No, I, I really think this could be a good role for you. You should come in." So I went in and, you know, didn't know what to expect.
• 4:18
  And, you know, I reme- I remember distinctively driving out there. I was like, you know, "How do used cars get on dealers' lots?" That's what I... consumed me for the 45 minutes on the way out there.
• 4:28
  And I was like, I w- I would have bet anything at that point 100% of cars came onto dealers' lots as trade-ins. I, I knew nothing about the whole wholesale mechanisms and wholesale auction industry. So I get out there.
• 4:41
  It's, like, the biggest auction in Canada. It's, like, top five in, in Manheim's footprint. So it's, like- Oh, wow... 400, 400 acres of, of pavement. That's a real operation. [laughs] It's a real operation.
• 4:52
  400 acres and I'm like, "Wow, look at this place. Where are these cars coming from? Where, why are they here?"
• 4:57
  [laughs] And I, I walk in and, you know, uh, negotiate with, uh, with the, the, uh, general manager, who also was the previous owner before Manheim bought him. And it was, it was funny.
• 5:06
  It was like, you know, starting salary 25,000. But, um, he was also gonna give me the first month's revenue. And this is before there was, like, MRR, like monthly recurring revenue.
• 5:18
  So he said, "You're gonna, you're gonna try to sell dealers, um, access to Manheim.com for 50 bucks a month, and we'll pay you the first month." And I was like- Just all of it... "All right.
• 5:30
  I mean, I'll probably end up making-" [laughs] "... 25 grand a year, but that's fine." [laughs] So f- the funny thing is, the funny thing, two things happened, right?
• 5:37
  Well, a, a bunch of things happened, but two things specifically. One, about three week, three months in, I get a call from the general manager of Manheim online. I'm like, "Uh-oh, why is this guy calling me?" Yeah.
• 5:48
  [laughs] So he says, "What are you doing up there?" I was like, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Well, you're selling more than any of our other 89 auction locations." Wow. And I, I...
• 5:59
  And he says, "You just started like three months ago."How are you doing that?" And he said, "Well, if you got a few minutes, let me tell you what I'm doing."
• 6:05
  And, and then, you know, at the end of the call, he said, "Would you ever consider moving down to the US?" [laughs] He's poaching him right now. He's got good stuff over here that we- Yeah. [laughs]...
• 6:13
  what we're trying to do. Well, the, the other thing you guys will love is, like, I, I... Around that time, I get a call into the general manager's office, right? Great guy. Love him, right? Still love him to this day.
• 6:22
  Was a great mentor to me. But, you know, he says to me, he says, "Steve, about your pay package." I said, "Yeah." He said, "Well, it's not gonna work anymore." Yeah, no. [laughs] Of course. Of course.
• 6:33
  And I was like, "Well, what do you mean?" He says, "Well, you know, you're, you're, you're tracking to make more money than anyone here than me this year."
• 6:41
  And like, you know, it's an auction with, like, 400 employees or 450 employees or something, right? [laughs] And, you know, I, I, I didn't have the balls nor the, the season to say, "How...
• 6:50
  Explain to me how this is a bad thing for you." Yeah. [laughs] Right. "The fact that I'm selling so much- Doesn't this work out?" Right. "Is it, is it a bad thing?" You so messed it up so much.
• 6:58
  Doesn't this work out, right?" And, and even worse, like, now you know the economics. Like, if you have a recurring revenue product and you only sell a s- the salesperson only gets comped for the first month.
• 7:06
  The first month. So wait. He didn't even get- Hello, hello So anyway, so but I, I'm sure, I don't know if he ever, but hopefully he listens to this podcast- I hope he does listen to this...
• 7:15
  and like, and, and la- and laughs about it because he's like, yeah. He'll recall having that conversation with me. And I'm sure it was super uncomfortable for him.
• 7:21
  But in any case, he, he was the one ultimately that encouraged me to, to take the leap, get down to the US. And the rest is kinda history.
• 7:27
  I mean, I, I've had great roles that have been kind of instrumental in getting me to where I am now, but that was the first step. Give, give us the, give us... First of all, this is an amazing story. That's amazing.
• 7:39
  What... And but what did you do in those 90 days, in three months? Well, okay. As much as you want, you may just edit this part out, but it isn't that exciting.
• 7:48
  But the, the interesting thing, and I, I struck, s- I struck upon an opportunity that's rare in life, right?
• 7:53
  So I get into this role, and at that point, ADESA, uh, locations in Canada, there were, like, 14 of them, and there were only two Manheim locations.
• 8:02
  But because Manheim was so much bigger in the US, they had built the, the online platform that ADESA was using, the competitor. Wow. So I realized that there were 14 locations across Canada,
• 8:15
  ADESA's our, our competitor, who had similar people, similar roles, technology managers, who were out trying to convince dealers to use adesa.com, adesa.ca up there to buy cars, but it was powered by us.
• 8:28
  And the only way those dealers could get access to buy cars at ADESA sites was to subscribe to manheim.com. So all I did was make 14 phone calls. I said, "Let me make it really easy for you."
• 8:39
  [laughs] "I'm, I'm gonna send you a one-page document," which had, had to be on Microsoft Word. He just put it together. He went pyramid. A plan. It was a process. It was a process. It was exactly right.
• 8:48
  And like, dude, it was a, it was amazing. This was the most amazing thing. So I send them all a one-page form to fill out and said, "Look, I promise you this, right?
• 8:56
  Um, within 24 hours of you sending me this over, I'll get your dealer hooked up. And then if they ever need tech support for the life of the customer, just have them call me. Here's my cell phone number."
• 9:06
  [laughs] And the, the, the, the, the, the women in the front office hated me because the fax machine was running nonstop. Fax machines, fax machines, not emails. I remember it. [laughs] Fax machines.
• 9:16
  And these poor women would bring me stacks of paper, and all I would do... I, I, I got to admit, I never visited one dealer, ever. [laughs] Wow. I, I never visited one dealer. I, I sat there and I just took orders.
• 9:28
  And I used to have to go in Saturday and Sunday. [laughs] And I used to go in early and stay... I was always the first employee in, the last employee to leave. I came in Saturday, Sunday.
• 9:38
  But I mean, I was limited by how many orders I could push through, and these poor folks down in Atlanta that were taking these orders and like, they're like, "What is wrong with you?" Like, "What are you doing up there?"
• 9:47
  [laughs] So it was like- You're just leveraging the network... it w- it, it was a, it was a system that I was able to put into place- Talk, okay, look- Recognize- Paul... yeah.
• 9:56
  [laughs] We did a podcast earlier today, and we were like, "What's the through line," right? [laughs] Right, right. I'm like, here's the through line.
• 10:04
  Steve Greenfield came into the automotive industry leveraging the network, and he's still doing that today. It's unbelievable. That's so good.
• 10:13
  Well, guys, I mean, I could tell you this, like, I mean, uh, there, there are things to be learned in life. And, you know, I, I have a, a book that I'm writing which tentatively is titled Building Demand Systems.
• 10:23
  But, you know, I've seen folks in our industry, most notably like Dale Pollak, building a philosophy before a software product. Yes.
• 10:32
  And I, I remember, I oversaw the acquisition of, of vAuto, and used to, I used to travel a lot with Dale, and I used to always laugh at him because Dale would stand up in front of an audience of dealers in the early days and tell them they weren't worthy, and tell them, you know, if they didn't believe in the philosophy, they didn't buy into the philosophy, he wasn't gonna sell them the software.
• 10:49
  [laughs] He took it away before they asked. And it was like ultimately a takeaway sale. It was a takeaway sale. You know, and you, you, you look at what folks like Grant Cardone have done in this industry as well.
• 10:56
  Like, we got a lot of cases where people have, like, very, very thoughtfully... I'm like an understudy here. I mean, these guys are pros.
• 11:04
  But I mean, there, there have been models that have been built in th- in this industry around building demand systems.
• 11:09
  And I think someone needs to write, write about these things because there are, there, there's evidence of these things, and all of us can learn. All of us can learn from them. Gee whiz. Well, see- Oh...
• 11:19
  that's why we don't cut things out of these podcasts.
• 11:21
  [laughs] Because I think the texture that anyone who has known you for a while, I've known you for a while, we've had a lot of conversations, and that just gives a whole new texture.
• 11:32
  I feel like the black and white just turned color for me. [laughs] And, and I understand so much more about why you are so successful at what you are doing now. So I mean, I don't even...
• 11:44
  [laughs] Actually, I don't even know where to go from here. I don't even know where to go from here. I gotta process this in my mind. My, I'm like, hit record and [laughs] Well, let's go here. Let's go here.
• 11:52
  So-You know, obviously you, that was when you stepped into automotive, uh, largely unemployable, to use your own words. [laughs] Right?
• 11:59
  And, and you saw the power of the network, and you just started, you know, doing things. Obviously working really hard, bell to bell, on the vendor side, right? Getting there first, entering things in, leaving last.
• 12:11
  And now your career seems to have taken a, a significant turn, or at least it looks a lot different from an outsider's perspective.
• 12:19
  Because you are resourcing the industry constantly with, um, your insights and this kind of aggregation of what's going on in the tech markets and with acquisitions, because that, that is also a part of your pedigree at this point.
• 12:32
  And, and now you're starting to search out, with a group of dealer investors, search out solutions so you can fund them and kind of move the industry forward the next step.
• 12:43
  What is the common thread from your perspective that runs through all of those things? Because there's several things going on there. Mm-hmm.
• 12:50
  What do you see as the common thread that kind of gets you up in the morning and says, "I need to do these things"? Yeah.
• 12:55
  I, I mean, I think like a l- a lot of us, and I'm, I'm sure you guys feel the same way, but I, I feel really lucky to have stumbled across this industry, right?
• 13:03
  I mean, at this point I don't know that I'm employable outside of the industry. Anywhere else. [laughs] Right. Exactly. So I'm kind of, it stuck with me, I'm stuck with it. But I, I, I do feel really lucky.
• 13:11
  You know, I, I, I had a great 10 years at Manheim where I learned, learned a ton. I had a great five years at Autotrader where I learned, learned a ton.
• 13:19
  Had a, had a, had a short stint over at TrueCar where I learned a ton. Um, you know, in, in amongst that time was an entrepreneur who raised money myself and burned through all that money.
• 13:28
  And so I have a tremendous amount of empathy for entrepreneurs, but- What, what did you raise the money for?
• 13:33
  So, um, Automotive Ventures, or- originally when I left, when I left, um, um, uh, um, Autotrader back in 2014, um, we were gonna build a suite of like consumer and dealer-facing products- Gotcha... based on, on data.
• 13:46
  So in fact, it's funny, you know, the, the, uh, original idea was called Car Lingo, and, um, the idea was, um- Okay... to have a, an online marketplace that allow you to configure an en- car- entire car deal.
• 13:58
  And this is before Roadster, right? This is like the early days where we're like, "Okay, so- [laughs] That's great... what does a marketplace need to evolve into?"
• 14:04
  Well, at some point, a consumer's gonna be able to go into a marketplace and negotiate their trade, get financing approval, get a monthly payment, and ultimately, you know, choose the dealer.
• 14:14
  And it's more than just leads. It's gonna be actually like transactable deals that are gonna be portable.
• 14:19
  And the idea was maybe too early or maybe just like a failure of execution or a combination thereof, but I'll chalk it up.
• 14:25
  I'll, I'll, I'll take the, I'll take the burden of like the, the, the failure, but, um, it, it was- I don't know. My first thought-... a good learning experience. Good learning experience... I don't know.
• 14:30
  My first thought, my first thought was just like, "Oh, that's early looking wrong." Right. [laughs] Could be. Could be. That's, that's the situation. Could be. But I appreciate your humility. Yeah, yeah. Um- So.
• 14:39
  [laughs] But, but, um, but yeah, to, to get back to, to your question, I think that, um, you know, I find myself now having had enough experience in the space to have a perspective.
• 14:47
  And, you know, d- data's kind of worthless without distilling it down into insights. Insights are interesting, but really it's taking the next step and saying, "Okay, make it actionable," right?
• 14:58
  Like, give, give me something that's tangible that I can go follow a roadmap, build a roadmap around, and that's what I struggle with every day. That's what gets me up in, in the morning, right? It's like- Mm-hmm...
• 15:06
  I feel the burden of saying, you know, I'm a student of the industry, but what I'm trying to do is translate all of this disparate information into something tangible, a framework where, whether it's a dealer or an OEM or other industry participants can look at it and say, "Okay, let me make sense of this.
• 15:22
  Let me make sense of either the transactions that are taking place, what valuations are being paid, who's buying what, you know, what, what, what are the kind of like the, the trends in the industry?
• 15:32
  What, what, what are the probabilities that those trends are gonna hit? What, what's the magnitude of the, the, uh, the impact if they do hit?"
• 15:39
  And then take all that and, that, distill that down into like, what can I do about it, right?
• 15:43
  'Cause at the end of the day, it's like information's worthless unless we can synthesize and process what should I get up and do today? And you- Yeah. There's a lot of information on the internet right now.
• 15:53
  [laughs] There's a lot of information everywhere, and it's hard to filter like signal to noise, as they say, right? So I'm trying- Yeah... to filter the signal to noise.
• 16:00
  And, you know, one, one of those, uh, channels is the, the dealer fund where we're trying to a- allow dealers to participate financially in, in finding, identifying early stage technology solutions and growing those solutions that will also check the box of helping them in their day-to-day operations.
• 16:18
  So how many... So you've been, I, I saw, you know, around the interwebs you doing this massive US tour. It seemed like you were in a different city every eight hours. There was a tour bus involved- [laughs]...
• 16:30
  a trailer, a sound system. Yeah. [laughs] But how many dealers at this point are involved in... Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Roll back.
• 16:38
  Because initially you, you had a, an investment fund that was, uh, by some other investors that, that you were managing- Mm-hmm...
• 16:46
  uh, and, and re- and touching, you know, some smaller tech companies and, and doing- Yep... that work already.
• 16:52
  Um, I, and, you know, we could talk about that, but, uh, what was the impetus for going, "Okay, I've been doing that.
• 16:58
  I know that's necessary work, but, but now I wanna move over to, to managing kind of dealers in a fund that's separate from this, you know, other, other kind of VC-ish, uh, fund"? Yeah. Great, great, great question.
• 17:11
  So, you know, two years ago, decided to laun- launch a fund.
• 17:15
  Talked to a, a bunch of, um, fund managers and they said, "Look, you know, you coming out of the corporate world, you need to establish a track record like in any other industry.
• 17:24
  So, um, g- get started, even if it's a small fund," which was a small fund. We, we, we raised a $7 million fund, which in the grand scheme of things, a fund is not even considered a microfund. Okay.
• 17:34
  Um, a wide mo- mobility thesis and, you know, we're putting 100 or $200,000 to work into companies as early as possible. And so to your point, where we've gotten from there is now we're 15 investments in.
• 17:46
  A third of those investors are dealer principals, and we, we've learned a ton. Wow.
• 17:50
  And, uh, we've also learned looking at other areas of venture capital that this, this, what, what I would call like vertically integrated, deep vertical integration, where you go deep into one space can, can pay huge dividends.
• 18:03
  So I'm executing a playbook that I didn't, I didn't write, but has been very successful elsewhere, most notably in commercial real estate.
• 18:11
  But, but mapping that onto dealers where, you know, the thesis is something like this:
• 18:16
  If you go find sort of like the most progressive, forward-thinking dealers out there-And then spend time with them upfront, which is what I've been doing. Um, understanding w- what they think the future looks like.
• 18:28
  Identifying o- o- opportunities to improve their operations, right? You distill all that down, munge it all down into areas of investment thesis,
• 18:38
  take that as a hunting license to go find solutions that address the biggest needs of your investors. And then ideally, before you ever invest, test those solutions in some of their stores before you invest.
• 18:52
  It's like you totally de-risk the venture capital model.
• 18:54
  Because by the time you invest, you're like, not only do you know, like, the, the most, um, uh, progressive dealers in America are telling you they need a solution, right? You've just found the solution.
• 19:05
  It's- You've tested the solution and it works. It's like, hello. [laughs] Right? So by the time you invest, I mean, it's, it's, it's a great way to de-risk the, the, the model overall. So you- So the dealer should...
• 19:16
  Go ahead. This is amazing. 'Cause you, you and, you and obviously Ben Hadley are really good friends and, and- Yeah... uh, a business partner in one of my other ventures.
• 19:23
  But, like, we, we just framed it and he framed it for me as market product fit, right? A lot of people go at- Right... any technology or product with product market fit. Like, "Hey, can I get a product into a market?
• 19:33
  Am I perceiving that the market needs this?" Instead of like asking the mot...
• 19:37
  Which is what companies like, you know, P&G and GE and all of, you know, that's what they end up doing because they revert their business back into focus group first and then move to product, right?
• 19:49
  And so you're just taking that from an investment perspective going- Mm-hmm... "Okay, I've essentially created this, uh, high level, um, forward-thinking focus group that consistently pushes the boundaries.
• 19:59
  We know what their, we know what their itch is. We call it the, we call it the itch on our side. And so we just, like, provide the calamine lotion, and then we know.
• 20:08
  But what's really, really cool about this is this is like the Seth Godin theory imple- i- implemented into, into market product fit, is that people like us do things like this.
• 20:18
  Which means that now if it works for these four dealers and they're progressive and the, and they match the psychographics or the tech- technographics of these other 60 dealers, the probability of these other 60 needing the same thing that these four needed is really high.
• 20:34
  So now my investment dollars actually go much further.
• 20:37
  Um, and not just that, but now I've, now I've met the bell curve, which means the next level of dealerships probably now know that they need this too, and they have the proof case of the early adopters- Yeah...
• 20:48
  to say yes, right? I mean, it's unbelievably smart. Genius. Yeah. I, I, I couldn't, I couldn't say it better myself.
• 20:55
  I mean, the only thing I'll add to you is like, the way we've kind of discussed it internally is like we, we wanna be the, the, the, the seal of approval, right? Yeah. The, the stamp that...
• 21:03
  By the time we've done all this work, every other dealer who isn't part of our fund will benefit because they'll be like- It's so good... "These guys do their work upfront. They validate it.
• 21:12
  And to your point then, I should be leaning in to adopt." Yep. That, and it's just Monday. [laughs] It's just Monday. It's just Monday. [laughs] It is Monday. [laughs] It's only the first of the month. Right.
• 21:25
  [laughs] So, so, you know, a- and, and this is what's in...
• 21:28
  You know, recently I've seen you posting about, you know, just seeking out, uh, companies that might be supporting, hiring, retaining, training technicians- Mm-hmm... right? Yeah.
• 21:37
  Uh, obviously a big pain point within, uh, dealers right now is, is finding, and not just finding, but keeping technicians, making them more efficient so that we can turn higher hours in bays and all those types of things.
• 21:48
  Um, i- if that's one of those things that you're seeing that are needing to be solved, maybe what are like the two or three hot items that you're seeing across the industry?
• 21:57
  And, uh, not to kinda like give the, give the farm away to, to, to someone that might be looking to, to build these, but you'd probably be- No, no, no... looking to find them.
• 22:05
  But the idea is- We, we, we want people to build... you, you want people to build. We want the entrepreneurs to come to us. So what are you seeing- Yeah...
• 22:09
  out there that, that are kind of the big things that dealers or the dealer network are, are asking for right now that you, that you all are trying to seek out solutions for?
• 22:18
  Because this is, uh, this is what's really cool is I think, you know, we're gonna, a- at a SoDoCon, which you're gonna be at and speaking and we're- Mm-hmm...
• 22:25
  really excited about, we're actually gonna do dealers pitching vendors, which is essentially what this is.
• 22:30
  But what we really want to be, uh, as a SoDo is the, the ability for a common, a common place for ideas to be synthesized, right? That maybe, maybe there's not a place to hire, retrain...
• 22:41
  Uh, maybe there's not a technology that's hiring, retaining, training, and making, uh, technicians more efficient.
• 22:46
  But if we told that story more, there might be even a few vendors that synthesize the idea because the, they did one part here, one part here, one part here. We create new co, and all of a sudden things take off.
• 22:56
  So what are those few things that you're kind of seeing in the market right now that need to be synthe- synthesized? Yeah, yeah, great.
• 23:01
  So I mean, I, I could talk endlessly about this, but let me, let me pull out the three that probably have percolated to the top. So the first is what you mentioned.
• 23:08
  I mean, we've heard consistently from dealers that, and this is nothing new, right? But it's just get- getting attenuated where, you know, they can't hire, hire techs.
• 23:16
  I think it's gonna get worse because the complexity of the cars are gonna get worse, right?
• 23:20
  You're gonna need a much more sophisticated, uh, technician to work on ADAS systems and electrification and conne- connected cars with over-the-air updates, et cetera.
• 23:30
  So, um, you know, the, the technician shortage is palpable for these guys. And, and ri- risk, risk-averse, [laughs] right? And risk-averse maybe to get electric shocks, right. You could, uh- To wear the rubber suits.
• 23:40
  Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] But, um, well, kidding aside. But no, no, I, I, I, and I, the, the way I would characterize it is like it's a shortage of techs on the front end.
• 23:48
  It's compensating those techs correctly so they stay around and don't skip and go to other dealers.
• 23:54
  And then it's like tech productivity, because obviously if the, the productivity of my tech doubles, then I need half as many techs. So I think all, all three of those areas are of interest to us.
• 24:04
  They might be different solutions, right? For, for finding, retaining, and productivity. But I mean, all of those areas are very interesting.
• 24:11
  So if you're an entrepreneur out there with an interest or a company, we'd love to talk to you, number one. Number two would be what, what I would call, um, and we've talked about this before, but process automation.
• 24:22
  It, outside of automati- au- auto- automotive, you'd call it RPA, robotic process automation, which is really a fa- fancy term for saying if you've got a clerk-Who sits in front of a computer screen and fills out the same form multiple times a day.
• 24:36
  Yep. You should be able to automate all that, right? Have higher accuracy rate, do it quicker, um, and free them up to go do something of higher value.
• 24:44
  And in this industry, we can walk into a dealer and we can see people sitting, filling out forms over and over and over, sometimes in multiple tabs within their browser. And all that should go away.
• 24:55
  And there's, there has not been as much innovation in this space as needed.
• 24:59
  And, you know, I think when we get back to increasing margin compression, which will happen, it's g- dealers are gonna look at their, their, their cost structure and say, "How do I eliminate costs?"
• 25:09
  And, and one is gonna be d- duplicative effort, right? R- r- removing- Yeah... duplicative effort by, by automation. So that's number two. So if anybody's working on automation, very interested in talking to them.
• 25:19
  And then the last is, like, what I would call, like, picking, picking, um, money up off the floor. And I would put that in, like, these two buckets, right, that, that'll resonate with you guys.
• 25:28
  One is, um, we know that con- consumers are presented F&I products that they turn down.
• 25:34
  And probably not because they do or don't want the F&I product, because by that point in the process they're so tired out that they're just like, "I don't want anything." Yeah.
• 25:43
  And following up with those consumers 7 days, 14, 28 days later at the suggestible moment and communicating in the way they wanna be communicated to, to introduce why they might actually want to take wheel insurance, tire insurance or whatever, extended warranties, service contracts.
• 26:01
  Um, I think that there's, there, there needs to be more innovation in that. Mm-hmm. And in the same vein, exactly the same use case applied to, um, turndowns in service. I go in for an oil change.
• 26:12
  They tell me I need four rotors. It's 1,000 bucks. I'm like, "I don't have 1,000 bucks in my bank account," or, "I don't have the time today. I gotta get back to work."
• 26:20
  I mean, we know now that consumer needs that work done and has to get that work done at some point. Mm-hmm.
• 26:24
  And, you know, most dealers, with all due respect, might send out a mailer six months later, but aren't smart around, like, using, like, sort of artificial intelligence to follow up and, and feed back to the consumer, "Hey, you know, you turned this down.
• 26:39
  We can come pick up your car and bring it in, make it really convenient for you." Yeah. "And by the way, we can give you a discount. We've got the parts in stock." Make it easy for the consumer to say yes subsequently.
• 26:49
  And I think that we can start to fill up those service bays at times where, you know, there might be gaps, right- Yeah... there might be extra, extra capacity.
• 26:56
  So I think, you know, to, to, to recap, you know, I, I think that, um, yes, technician shortages are, is a big thing. I think that, uh, process automation is a big thing.
• 27:06
  And then I think that, um, either F&I or service turndowns and following up with consumers, all of which I'd love to find companies to invest in. Awesome. Just a couple th- just a couple things.
• 27:16
  Hey, maybe, maybe we'll talk after this because I- All right... I, like, I'm like, I'm already like, "I think that and this one over here-" Kind of like- "... and this one over here." Yeah. So- Yeah. Let's, let's go.
• 27:24
  Let's go. Let's do it. Which you probably know about all of them, and you're like, "Kyle, yeah, I've already researched that." But we'll figure it out. [laughs] No, no, no.
• 27:28
  I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't know everything. I try to stay on top of everything. But no, there, there's always interesting companies that come out of the woodwork. So lo- Right...
• 27:35
  love to, to hear what you think. Awesome. Awesome. So, man- Look forward to that...
• 27:39
  this is one of those scenarios, and we don't get in this one very often, where we're 25 minutes in already and it's like maybe we need, like, a Joe Rogan length podcast. [laughs] Right. [laughs] So good.
• 27:50
  Because I really feel like we could probably sit here for another two and a half hours. And I mean, we haven't scratched the surface of EV.
• 27:57
  We haven't scratched the surface of all the crazed transition and business models and OEM relationships, and we're not gonna have time to do that today. Which means we're gonna have to have you back, for sure.
• 28:06
  But I think- Oh, shoot... we have time for- Too bad. Too bad... I think we have time for, like, another one. All right. Right? I think, should we, should we dive down... Go ahead, Kyle.
• 28:13
  Look, I have one- You, you get the last question. [laughs] I have one more question. And this is, uh, uh, oh, I, I am gonna turn to, like, the OEM EVs, that type of thing.
• 28:22
  Because, um, you know, what I find really interesting is you have this, this, uh, you know, weekly drip email that you introduced a few months ago.
• 28:31
  Um, you know, the, if, if, if no one's getting it, you should definitely go to automotiveventures.com and get the- Please, please... the monthly intel report, uh, which will also subscribe you to these weeklies.
• 28:41
  And a lot of it is, um, a, a little bit Greek to me, right? I, I understand- [laughs]... the mobility landscape a little bit.
• 28:47
  But what, what's really interesting to me is, as dealers especially, um, you know, we pay attention to dealer tech and what's happening in M&As in the dealer space.
• 28:56
  Uh, but what you've done is said, "Hey, look, that's, like, a small portion of this email, and look at all of these other things happening, uh, you know, among mobility."
• 29:04
  And I've even seen that shift over the last six months in your social media presence, in recognizing- Mm-hmm...
• 29:09
  these glo- almo- like, global mobility moves that are being made in the e- t- uh, the autonomous driving, EV space and all that, a- a- and all- Mm-hmm... of those verticals that are still in this automotive vertical.
• 29:21
  But, you know, what's the, like you said, you know, the straight line from, uh, news to insights to activity. Mm-hmm.
• 29:29
  And what's, i- i- particularly with those things, and, and I know that a lot of that is talking to, like, the, the, the VCs and the people that follow you on that side of space.
• 29:37
  But what's the straight line for dealers from news to insights- Mm-hmm... to activity in the mobility and EV and autonomous driving spaces that you're seeing right now, and the why they need to pay attention to that?
• 29:49
  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think you've characterized it well. I mean, it's not, not, not that pressing for the, the average dealer to pay, paying attention to these themes.
• 29:56
  Other, other than the fact there, there is a, a long shot chance that, that some of these things could be fairly disruptive, right?
• 30:02
  If you remember five years ago, there was a lot of talk from consultants that we were gonna have robotaxis everywhere. And, you know, Uber was gonna switch to driverless vehicles, and everything was gonna be on demand.
• 30:12
  And, and the cost per mile was gonna be a lot less than, than ownership.
• 30:15
  Well, luckily we didn't have, like, a bunch of dealers saying, "Ah, the world's collapsing," et cetera, and run for the hills, because that, that hasn't really materialized for a bunch of reasons.
• 30:23
  But, I mean, we, we, we do know is that the cars are getting more complex and, you know, the, the threshold for repairs is gonna be higher.You're gonna need more sophisticated technicians to repair these things in the future.
• 30:36
  Uh, we, we do know with EVs, they don't, they don't have oil, right? Service intervals are gonna be a lot longer.
• 30:43
  And we, we do know, for example, that the OEMs are talking a lot about billions of dollars of subscription services that the consumer's gonna be able to unlock in their car, whether it's performance or in-cabin experiences.
• 30:56
  And, um, what is hasn't been determined yet was i- is, is what, what the revenue share will be between the OEM and the dealer.
• 31:03
  When I buy a car and then, you know, six months later I get a solicitation from the manufacturer to say, "Hey, Steve, there's a new feature.
• 31:11
  You can unlock another 100 horsepower for 50 bucks a month," and I get on my app and click okay, who gets the revenue?
• 31:18
  So wh- while I think a lot of these things seem like The Jetsons and seem, like, really far away, I think that, um, more immediately, these things will eventually creep into dealer land, and the dealers need to be at least aware of them, right?
• 31:31
  So nothing to freak out about yet, but, I mean, sh- shame on them if they've never, ever heard of over-the-air updates and don't know what that means, or how that could be potentially disruptive to the amount of recalls that they get back in the service base.
• 31:44
  And, um, you know, so, so I, I think that we don't need to be spending 100% of our time looking at all these adjacent areas.
• 31:51
  But what we know is, like, what goes on in these adjacent areas will definitely have an impact back i- in the dealer world.
• 31:57
  And, um, I, I, I'll do my best to stay abreast of all those things and bring those back into context for dealers. Awesome. Well, Steve- Uh- Thanks. I think I couldn't wrap that more.
• 32:07
  I have eight more questions, but I have to wrap it. [laughs] Uh, because I was, like, thinking about phones and whether providers and carriers- Oh, gosh. [laughs] And then, like, I was like, is that happening?
• 32:16
  We can look outside of the industry to understand these trends. We'll get to that. Uh, but absolute pleasure having you on today. Thanks. Uh, thanks for joining us. We can't wait to see you at ASOTU Con.
• 32:27
  I'll remind everyone, like, head to automotiveventures.com if you haven't done so.
• 32:32
  Uh, and make sure and follow Steve on LinkedIn, uh, because it will, it'll just kinda keep you abreast, and he does an incredible job at those insights. So thanks for joining us.
• 32:41
  And man, we can't wait to, to have you at the show. Well, guys, let me say, um, you know, I think you guys are the hardest working guys in the industry.
• 32:48
  And I, I just really appreciate everything that you do on behalf of the industry, 'cause I really think that you gu- your, your, your locus is to think about what the industry needs and get ahead of it.
• 32:56
  So I really appreciate that you guys are out there doing what you do. I really appreciate that. Thank you. That just made my week. [laughs] [laughs] [upbeat music] Okay.
• 33:10
  So that literally was one of my favorite episodes, favorite interviews I've ever done in my life. I think it still has something to do with the fact that he's Canadian. I don't know how to tie that back in.
• 33:22
  [laughs] But, but, Mike. [laughs] Okay, but first of all, you're talking about origin stories and, and he's sharing a little bit of his. I just found out that he's Canadian.
• 33:31
  I don't know why I had never connected those dots. Well, don't... I mean, it's a thing when people from Canada... I, I have a friend from Canada. Do you know them? Like, there's, like, five people in Canada.
• 33:39
  [laughs] Do you get that? Yeah, all the time. Where are you from? Alberta. Uh, where are they from? Newfoundland. Oh, cool. That's only 12,000 miles away. [laughs] But yes, as a matter of fact, I do know Chad Smith.
• 33:51
  Well, I mean, Can- Canada and origin stories really go hand-in-hand. I mean, think of all the origin stories, like the superheroes, that came out of Canada. Oh, never mind. Skrrt.
• 34:01
  [laughs] Uh, y- you, you mean like Superman? He was... He's- Superman. Superman's Canadian. [laughs] Oh, the innards are coming out. If you listen to the audio, he's gone. We've, we've lost Cervello. He's done.
• 34:16
  He threw the hat off. The innards are flying out. He just kicked the cat. [laughs] Wolverine. Okay, now we're talking about- Wolverine is just Australian, only becau- No, I'm kidding. He's not Australian.
• 34:27
  [laughs] All right, back to Steve Greenfield. Steve Greenfield is Wolverine. [laughs] Th- that would n- well, so Steve Greenfield, he has a, a monthly auto intel report that he releases.
• 34:37
  [laughs] And he just released August's, uh, a day ago, or today, when we're recording this.
• 34:43
  And every time I read something that comes out of the thoughtfulness that happens [laughs] from Steve Greenfield, it is, like, the most...
• 34:54
  I- it's like this duality of me not believing what I'm reading because it's so insightful- [laughs] And also being like, "Why didn't I realize this before?" Because it's so clear. Yeah. That's it. It's, I'm, I'm stumped.
• 35:07
  [laughs] I, it, it is, it's, it's mind-boggling. And I think that, you know, his, his insight into this, like, I'm totally ripping this. His insight during this conversation into, like, okay- [clears throat] Absorb,
• 35:22
  insights, action, right? Going, "Okay, that's, that's a thing that I need to absorb. That's a communication. That's a media. That's a, that's a news story that I need to absorb." Now, we have to draw out insights.
• 35:34
  'Cause if you only go from, from absorption to action, then you miss that, like, the, the, the work of going, "What can I glean out of this that's maybe not written?" Right? The lines between the lines.
• 35:48
  And he's doing so much of that for the industry.
• 35:50
  But now what he's turned and done with, like, the dealer fund and even some of the way that he's communicating at the front end of the intel report is saying, "Okay, now I'm seeing all of this.
• 36:02
  And because of," like Michael said, "all of this historical insight and future insight that I have because I'm watching the industry and the global industry, now I'm gonna provide the industry with some level of action, whether that be in technology or next steps from a process or people perspective."
• 36:19
  And that, that walk, I think, is something that we can implement across our whole day, right?
• 36:26
  This is why the collaboration and, and this project that we have here is so critical, because there are so many paths that each of us are walking, and that path is our area of focus, and we go deep on that area of focus.
• 36:41
  We need somebody like Steve to be watching the economy. Mm. To be watching how things are ebbing and flowing and what the demand is like and, [clears throat] you know, maybe how the, the, the OEMs are perceiving things.
• 36:54
  That's his lane. He's sticking to it.
• 36:56
  Why, why it's so critical and why I'm so excited that you guys have put this together and invited me, me to be a part of it, is now we get to hear other avenues that we don't typically hear. It's automotive.
• 37:07
  We usually hear about sales and marketing and leadership and culture. Ah, but what about the economy? What about the sub-layer of what actually moves things in this industry? And that's where Steve comes in.
• 37:19
  I think it's so valuable. That was our conversation with Steve Greenfield. On behalf of Paul Daly, Kyle Mountsert, and myself, Michael Cirillo, this is Auto Collabs. Thanks for joining us.
• 37:31
  Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 37:43
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 37:52
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.