Latest / The Hypnotist / The Swan, The Bunny, and the Future of Hypnotherapy – With Bob Burns & Claudia Rickard

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The Swan, The Bunny, and the Future of Hypnotherapy – With Bob Burns & Claudia Rickard · The Hypnotist

0:05
Welcome to The Hypnotist, the show that gives you inside
0:09
access to cutting edge hypnosis with real clients facing.
0:12
Genuine issues brought to you. By the hypnotherapist Demanded
0:16
by celebrities, CEOs and even royalty Adam Cox.
0:20
These recordings took place live from Evans Clinic in London's
0:24
world famous Harley Street. So get yourself comfortable and
0:31
enjoy today's episode of the. Hypnotist Hi, it's Adam here and
0:40
you're about to listen to a guest episode of The Hypnotist
0:44
where I chat to Bob Burns, who is a bit of a legend in the
0:48
hypnosis world and has had a very distinguished career.
0:52
And he's most well known for the Swan protocol, which is a way of
0:57
communicating directly with the unconscious through idiomotor
1:01
responses by having the arm shaped like a swan.
1:05
He's very well known for that and also Claudia Ricard, who is
1:09
the creator of the Bunny Talk process and she uses almost like
1:14
the anchoring and the shape of a Bunny in a shadow puppet style
1:19
to again enable and facilitate communication change, but also
1:25
to anchor very safe childlike feelings.
1:29
So this is a conversation with both of them because in early
1:33
January they're hosting an event in Southampton, the South of
1:38
England, on the South Coast, where they're going to be
1:40
teaching you about the Swan Protocol and the Bunny talk
1:43
process, all in one action-packed day.
1:47
The link to that event is going to.
1:49
Be in the description So if you like the idea of learning more
1:53
about the swan or the Bunny talk process and all of their special
1:56
things they've got going on on that day, have a listen to this
1:59
conversation but. Definitely do check out that.
2:01
Link to explore their event. Hopefully you get some value
2:06
from this this session. Let me know in the comments if
2:08
you like. If you like it when I interview
2:10
these kind of experts and other hypnotherapists on my show,
2:15
hopefully you'd like my hypnotherapy.
2:17
But it's also good for you to. Learn from other hypnotherapists
2:20
as well. So relax and enjoy this session,
2:23
OK? Hi, it's Adam here.
2:27
And welcome to today's episode of The Hypnotist, where today
2:32
I'm joined by two very special guests, Bob Burns and Claudia
2:36
Ricard. Welcome to the show.
2:38
Thank. You for having us.
2:39
Thank you. Nice.
2:40
To see you, Adam. Great to have you here because
2:43
I've, I've had both of you on the show individually, but but
2:45
never together. So what's what's behind this
2:50
collaboration? Oh, I'll let you go, Bob.
2:55
Oh, from my part, it's just a lost thing, really.
3:00
So we got together. We got together.
3:02
Some time ago I had a look at Take Claudia's Bunny system.
3:07
That's what I called it. At the time, I didn't know much.
3:09
About it, I watched it. And I kind of, I kind of liked
3:13
it. You know that in this business,
3:15
a lot of people say, what do you think of this?
3:16
They show you what they've got. You're normally well monitored.
3:19
You say it's very nice, well done, and I've learned over the
3:22
years to do and say things like that.
3:25
But everyone again, you get something.
3:26
You think, oh, that really is. There really is.
3:29
Something in this? So I had a look at.
3:31
Hers. I know it's.
3:32
Exploded in America already and so we got involved in that we
3:35
got involved in her Bunny system.
3:37
I, I know the story, she might get involved in that today or
3:41
not, I'm not sure. And I liked it.
3:42
I like. The way the whole thing came
3:43
together. So really, that's it.
3:45
The. Whole the whole money process
3:47
of. Claudia, I really are really
3:48
right. And now we're considering, in
3:51
fact planning taking her over here to the UK.
3:54
Her English is still good, so I why not?
3:57
Yeah, that's it. I still pass for English there
4:01
you. Go.
4:02
So we, we, we've got a Scott living in England and we've got
4:04
an English, English woman living in the States.
4:07
So we're, we're kind of very multinational at the moment.
4:12
As as a background for those people not familiar with either
4:15
of you, Bob, do you want to give a bit of an introduction to to
4:18
yourself and and what you're most well known for?
4:21
Well, I'll keep it very, very short.
4:23
I hypnotized my first person in 73, so I've been doing this for
4:27
a long time. But I've always been a full time
4:30
therapist, mainly in the therapy.
4:32
Room, although I did some training, I've done lots of.
4:37
Hypnosis shows over the years, mainly in Europe and what have
4:40
you, but I've. Always been mainly a therapist.
4:42
Then I fell across something about 10 years ago, I think,
4:45
called the Swan. Which just exploded.
4:47
Without any marketing, I never. Realized what was.
4:50
Going on then I started getting requests from people.
4:53
And now the Swan this. Little system.
4:55
I've got it, it's it walks in it.
4:58
Certainly the last time we looked.
4:59
It's over 80. Five countries around the world
5:02
with lots of therapists, and that's what I did.
5:04
Of course, when COVID came along, all that.
5:06
Stopped. I used to do 10 workshops a
5:08
year. 7 roughly local here in the UK so I could get back to
5:12
work. By Monday morning, but I would
5:14
do maybe. 3 long hauls a year. COVID killed all of that.
5:18
And that's OK. That's.
5:19
It killed all of that. For everybody.
5:21
So you have to smile and say interesting little thing that's
5:24
that's happened to you. So now I'm mainly doing therapy
5:28
in the therapy room, which I like.
5:30
But also I mainly return more than anything now.
5:32
I'm 74 now, I'm taking it easy. Luckily for me, Claudia likes
5:38
all the men. So I'm Bach involved again.
5:41
Doing some stuff and we'll see what happens.
5:44
So I still do think I've got. One on next weekend.
5:46
Fuck with the lovely Pete. Dalton.
5:48
So I'm doing 1 online. And for two days.
5:51
But now that I'm getting a Weaver one, I start at 12.
5:53
I finished at 4:30, I think 4. A4 and 1/2 day sounds really?
5:57
4 1/2 hour day sounds really. Good to me.
5:59
But mainly that's it. I'm a hypnotherapist and I
6:01
discovered. This thing called the Swan.
6:03
And it kind of took off. And that's it in a very
6:06
scattered nutshell. Yeah, Yeah.
6:08
Absolutely. And I think anyone in the
6:10
hypnotherapy, if they were to kind of make this kind of
6:12
posture with their their hand and their elbow, they would
6:14
immediately kind of recognise that as there's this one
6:17
protocol, you know, by by yourself.
6:19
And, and I think, you know, people talk about idiomotor
6:22
responses and the and the unconscious.
6:25
Why do you think that particular kind of shape of the hand in
6:29
that way is is a good vehicle for, let's say, unconscious
6:33
change? I think it just fits because I
6:36
discovered it by accident. Everything in this world is has
6:40
been put forward by someone. It's an.
6:44
Idea The swan with me was an accident.
6:49
Where I was leaning in the back of the chair.
6:51
To look at my hand exactly in that shape.
6:53
And I said my God. Aloud, I said.
6:55
You look. Like a swan, don't you?
6:56
And my hand somehow did this. It nodded towards me.
7:01
What's going on? So that in.
7:02
Fact goes through the whole. Thing people find it easy to put
7:05
their elbow and something next to them.
7:07
The hand flops like that. I even tell them don't hold it.
7:09
I know it's called the swan, but don't hold it, let it flop.
7:13
Nowhere. Nowhere under the chance of
7:14
working. Then from there it looks like,
7:16
and people can be forgiven. People will often say, oh, it's
7:19
an idiom motor response as if it's only an idiom motor
7:22
response. But the swan goes much, much
7:24
deeper in many, many ways that people know about.
7:27
The second. The third part.
7:28
Of the swan is where we call the right voice.
7:31
When I asked the swan to speak to me.
7:32
And the person who is not hypnotized in any way, shape or
7:35
form looks at me as if I'm an idiot.
7:37
And then from inside the the the butt comes along.
7:40
Mr. Burns. And the whole room goes goes
7:43
silent. Then the fun.
7:44
Begins that's that's where we it turns out to something else, and
7:49
it turns out to something else. Through.
7:51
Not through me, not through the therapist.
7:53
It's through something else that you maybe haven't even
7:55
recognized yet. I haven't recognized yet.
7:57
It's a part within us that's always been there sitting,
8:00
waiting, watching and saying recognize me, tweak me, poke me
8:05
and see what happens again. But kind of it, although it's,
8:11
it's, it's simple, but it's very complicated from, you know.
8:15
And I think a lot of therapeutic, you know, kind of
8:17
protocols have this idea of, you know, an unconscious, a super
8:21
conscious, a higher self, like all of these kind of things that
8:24
are are different kind of parts of us.
8:26
And, and when I first learned about this one, I thought there
8:29
must be an element in the same way that if you hold like a, a
8:32
pendulum, you can pick up more subtle idiomotor responses.
8:37
The the position of the hand and it being very flexible because
8:41
it's a different shape. You're going to notice kind of
8:43
twitches and kind of movements much more subtly than you would
8:46
do if it was kind of positioned, you know, kind of flat like
8:49
that. I also imagine that in a world
8:51
where a lot of sessions are on Zoom, it's easier to pick up on,
8:55
on kind of things in a, in a Zoom session when it's like this
8:58
than if it would be, you know, by their waist and, and that
9:01
kind of stuff. Have you, have you had that
9:02
feedback from people that you train that actually it works
9:04
quite well on Zoom? It's made for.
9:07
Zoom isn't it? It's absolutely made for it.
9:08
But back to the what you mentioned there, the pendulum,
9:11
the pendulum. Absolutely is an idiomotor.
9:13
Response. There's no argument there.
9:15
In fact, if you get real close with the best technology item,
9:18
you'll like this. Your camera zoom in, you see it
9:20
sucks. It's not the pendulum, it's near
9:22
hand that moves. To move the pendulum.
9:24
So it's an idiomotor response from the client and the client's
9:27
beliefs. The swan is almost the opposite
9:30
of that in many ways. Not always.
9:31
In some cases it will be like that, but in many other case.
9:35
One of the last things I tell them is no, whatever happens.
9:37
Don't try and help me, but don't.
9:39
Fight me, just allow the hand to do.
9:40
Its own thing is that OK? And they go yes.
9:43
And then when it moves they say shit man, I was fighting you all
9:46
the way. That's very common.
9:48
So it's the opposite of that. Pendulum thing, they are
9:52
fighting not to make it move and we even play this game, do we?
9:55
It's normally played in the world of hypnosis.
9:56
I understand that, but they are not in hypnosis and I say well
9:59
try, really try not to move on this thing and see what happens.
10:03
So that wonderful part. And say them he would talk to
10:04
him again by just giving me a no.
10:06
That would be great. The hammers and they start
10:07
screaming. And of course, the it's very
10:10
common for the F word to suddenly come into the room at
10:13
that point because it's just, it's just it.
10:16
Gives them an experience doesn't it and and that element of that
10:19
magical mystical part of hypnosis which really captivates
10:22
people that you know whether it is the law of a reverse effect
10:25
or or or just kind of like being surprised at this kind of
10:28
movement is is is kind of a wonderful thing to contribute to
10:32
their the the change and. If you can get a little bit.
10:36
Can you get a little bit spooky for just a second?
10:38
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not really into whoa, whoa.
10:41
But I guess I am in a way. I guess we all are in a little
10:43
way. So for example.
10:44
When I'm talking to a client, if I go.
10:47
Completely the opposite side of of tech wise.
10:49
And I just say to him, you know, it's a funny thing, but I'm not.
10:52
I don't even need to hypnotize you to do this.
10:54
Fuck, I'm not even talking to you.
10:56
And talk to that part inside you, that part that's inside you
10:59
right now looking at me through your eyes.
11:01
And right this very second, it's saying, Oh my God, he sees me.
11:05
Now at that point item, I can tell you that 90% of the people
11:08
will give me a smile at that point.
11:10
But over the years now I've come to ask myself the question, is
11:14
it them that's smiling at me? So that's what I'm saying.
11:18
We'll just get smoky for just a second because it's really,
11:21
really quite bizarre. Well, and what happens next?
11:23
Becomes more bizarre when they start to do things, to feel
11:27
things that they they were, they were fighting against Stephen.
11:30
So it's an interesting one, yeah.
11:33
And Claudia, you'll, you'll remember this because I
11:37
misinterpreted the Bunny talk process by confusing it with the
11:42
with the swan and thinking it's kind of like, because it's got
11:45
that, that the hand movement kind of like, yeah, like like
11:48
this. You know, for me, it was kind of
11:50
like, oh, it's an evolution. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a
11:54
slight variation of the swan, which of course it isn't.
11:57
So for those listening, give us an introduction to where the
12:00
Bunny talk process came from and and how it it differs from the
12:04
swan. So, yes, Adam, and you weren't
12:06
the only one, OK? Many people thought that it was
12:10
that I was actually they said, oh, what does Bob think to you
12:13
doing the Bunny talk when? Because he's got the swan.
12:15
I went. He's fine with it.
12:17
He loves it because it's nothing like it.
12:20
Oh, isn't it? No.
12:22
So how did it begin? OK, so if you do press your
12:25
finger and thumb together and. And, of course, who remembers
12:29
shadow puppets? Yeah, and most of us do.
12:33
So it was something that I actually played with my
12:36
daughter. And as just like Bob said at the
12:39
beginning, it just became something that we did.
12:43
He had no idea he was going to create the swan.
12:45
I had no idea that as I was playing with my daughter, Bunny,
12:50
Bunny rabbits, Bunny shadow puppets and we were talking to
12:54
each other through this and we played.
12:56
We played well. I taught her the days of the
12:59
week, months of the year, simple maths.
13:02
And I had no idea that all that time ago while we were pressing
13:07
in our finger and thumb, that we were anchoring in safety, love
13:13
and security, unconditional love.
13:18
And that is what the Bunny Talk process is based on.
13:22
However, I have always been working with children.
13:26
Now I've got five children, OK. And it rains a lot in England.
13:31
So we used to do a lot of in inside games.
13:34
And I would draw around their body and I would get them to
13:38
fill it in because it was just, it's, we took a lot of time over
13:42
that. As I became a hypnotherapist in
13:45
England, that is actually how I started to see my children.
13:49
Where is that thing in your body?
13:51
What's it like? I got them to draw it out and,
13:55
and it became really interesting that I had.
13:59
I then brought the two together when my daughter was 15 and we
14:06
were here in America. She was going through a really
14:08
rough time, a really rough time. And she came through to my room.
14:13
It was New Year's Eve, sobbing. And if you've got children, you
14:19
really do not want to hear this scary sob that she was actually
14:24
sobbing. I got into bed with her.
14:27
I held her and I said, can you tell me what it is?
14:29
And she couldn't tell me. And then don't ask me what made
14:32
me do it. I did.
14:33
I got my mummy Bunny out and she got her baby Bunny out with her
14:36
little ears down. And she told Mummy Bunny what
14:41
had happened to her. And I just thought, oh, OK.
14:45
And I did not react. I didn't respond because I knew
14:48
not to, because Mummy Bunny never told her off.
14:51
Mummy Bunny we'd always played. So Mummy Bunny Bunny listened.
14:55
Of course, it was me. But we dissociated it out of us.
14:59
And of course, Adam, that's what I do when I, when I'm drawing
15:02
around these bodies of children or even adults now, it brings it
15:07
out onto the paper. And I was, but I was telling
15:12
Cheryl Ellman this about my, my, this story with my daughter,
15:16
because I was learning sleep talk with Cheryl.
15:19
And she said to me, you have to do something with that.
15:24
And so I did. I wrote a book, it's called A
15:26
Parent's Journey and the Bunny Talk Process.
15:30
So it's got the whole story about it.
15:31
And I thought that was just where it would go because I
15:33
thought it was just a really nice thing for parents to do
15:36
around the world. Play this game with their little
15:38
2-3 year olds, 4 year olds, 5 year olds, so that they could
15:41
anchor in safety, love and security, unconditional love.
15:45
So that when they had a teenager, if something they
15:49
needed a communication skill, all they needed to do was just
15:53
bring out the Bunny and the child would would remember this
15:57
is a safe place. I can now speak to my mummy or
16:01
daddy. And that is where I thought it
16:04
was going to stay. And then it was only when I had
16:09
spoken about it at hip the thoughts live my very first
16:12
talk. So you always get back 25
16:14
minutes and your first talk. And I had other colleagues come
16:18
up to me and they said you're going to make that into a
16:19
course. And I said, well, no, because
16:24
anybody can do it. Shadow puppets and then going
16:28
back to where I draw around the bodies.
16:31
Yes, I can make this into a course.
16:34
I will just add it in to how I work with children.
16:38
And now I've I've introduced it where actually I add in the
16:43
whole anchoring in and I explain about I call it poo on the
16:49
amygdala. I've got a whole little thing
16:52
for that and it's all through play.
16:54
But I've always played with children, it's always been
16:57
through play. And so actually this whole
16:59
process has been very easy for me because it's just how I've
17:03
always worked. And I've always wanted to see
17:05
the parents 1st. And I actually, I've always
17:08
drawn them these particular emotional intelligence diagrams.
17:11
I think it's my version of it, so that the parent goes, oh,
17:16
it's us. And I say it in such a very
17:20
clever, sneaky way that they actually are not realising that
17:24
I know it's them. But I'm saying it in a way that
17:27
they go, oh, yes, it's us. Because I say some parents do
17:32
this. And then they go, oh, I do that.
17:38
And they are honest. And sometimes they'll say,
17:41
actually, that's what happened to me.
17:42
Oh my gosh, yeah. I think I do that too.
17:45
And then what happens so often is I end up seeing the parents
17:48
actually and never the child because it is.
17:52
So it's as we know, it's the parents that are creating the
17:57
environment for the child. So it's it, I I think that's the
18:03
way to go. And but it's all through play.
18:06
I do end up using the Bunny talk on my adults as well because
18:11
it's natural age regression because when there's drawing,
18:16
when there's markers, when there's, and I do a whole thing
18:19
with toys as well. It people just naturally go back
18:23
to their inner child and there's no formal hypnosis in it.
18:28
But we all know that everything's hypnosis.
18:32
We're playing, we're in that state, we're in that zone, if
18:37
you like. So yeah, I love it.
18:39
It's it's it's very playful. It's very profound and it works
18:45
and I do use Bunny eye movements.
18:47
OK, and the, and the Bunny can pull it out and the Bunny can
18:51
put good things back in. So it's like pulling it out of
18:54
the wherever it is. Often the I pull it from the the
18:59
head because that's where people feel a lot of things.
19:01
Could be the gut, it could be the heart, but the Bunny pulls
19:04
it out. And then the Bunny, if there's
19:06
good things, because they do come in with good things,
19:09
instead of say something like shame, they might come in with
19:12
something like it wasn't my fault fault or let it go.
19:17
And the Bunny gives them that back and then we anchor that in
19:20
to their finger and thumb again. It's a very, it's a very
19:24
versatile tool because you're right, you know, if, if people
19:27
playing with puppets, generally it's a child when they do that.
19:29
So it kind of it's age regression.
19:32
It's it's level of disassociation.
19:34
If you look at a ventriloquist, you know, people are looking at
19:36
the ventriloquist dummy. They're not looking at the the
19:39
ventriloquist. You know, it's that element of
19:41
it kind of takes it from them and and as you say, anchoring
19:45
lots of different things. Obviously with your daughter,
19:47
you did it actually with kind of puppets.
19:49
When you're teaching it, do you recommend that people have
19:51
puppets or do is it enough to to kind of use the hands?
19:54
OK, so I I do have puppets, but I don't use them because
19:59
actually it's hopefully we would never lose our finger and thumb.
20:05
OK, But sometimes we don't always have the puppet with us.
20:10
And it's so, but your finger and thumb, it's always there and you
20:16
can actually just add in anchors wherever you may be.
20:20
So you are out and about and you see a glorious rainbow.
20:24
What can you do? Quickly anchor it in You see.
20:28
So to in in my opinion, I think it I I just stick to the finger
20:32
and thumb, but I guess I. I I have to ask this because
20:35
I've got I've got you both on the podcast at the same time.
20:38
Have have you experimented with the Bunny turning into the swan
20:42
and the swan turning into the the thing or 11 arm being a swan
20:47
and the other being the Bunny? Have you, have you played with
20:50
kind of a hybrid, you know, tag team of animal metaphor
20:57
protocols? That's a very good point because
21:00
actually you could bring out different parts there, couldn't
21:02
you? And this is exactly what our
21:05
workshop is going to be doing, all right.
21:08
Bob is going to add his genius of the Swan into my into my
21:15
Bunny, and we will be showing that how actually you can
21:19
introduce the two together. And so it takes it to a whole
21:24
new level with the expertise and Bob's skill and knowledge.
21:31
Yeah, and it would be, it would be a wonderful thing, I think,
21:33
to see someone in Bunny talk mode and suddenly we turn around
21:37
and say, and now what we'd like to do is try this and see if
21:42
while they're in Bunny talk mode, they find a single this
21:45
one. It's much easier.
21:47
Than they normally. Would guess what?
21:49
We don't know the answer to that.
21:50
Claudia and I, we don't know, but we'd really like to find
21:53
out. And we've got a.
21:54
Funny feeling. It's going to be quite exciting,
21:56
so we'll see what happens with it.
21:58
Yeah, yeah. And I guess to to some extent
22:01
you could have this one or this the this one communicating with
22:05
the Bunny in a in a way you've got then almost like 2 levels of
22:09
of disassociation. So it's I guess going to be an
22:13
experimental kind of thing. You get to figure out how to do
22:16
this kind of stuff while you're. While we're teaching it, because
22:20
this is where the magic happens, is that when you have a live
22:23
workshop and you've got people feeling their feelings and
22:27
they've got it out of them. And then if they have that,
22:30
because actually, because which one is going to be the older
22:33
part? Which one's going to be the
22:34
younger part? And how are then are they then
22:37
going to integrate? Because we know that if you are
22:39
having parts, they've always got to be integrated back.
22:42
However, of course, that's why you have to have a practitioner.
22:46
It has to be taught correctly because of, you know, with
22:49
parts. So it has to be integrated back
22:52
and and can they and we know that that can happen.
22:55
Now I do that anyway with the toys when I've got various toys.
23:00
However, how can we? There may well be just something
23:03
different with this one that that I haven't even come across
23:08
yet. And that is where it's going to
23:09
be so exciting. So yes, it's going to, it's
23:12
going to be a very interesting workshop for those people who
23:17
want to take it to the next level.
23:20
So I've seen you talk about the Bunny talk for for children and
23:25
those with early onset dementia. Are there any other kind of?
23:29
Use cases that you've seen that it works particularly well for.
23:32
Oh. My gosh, pretty much everything,
23:36
because you don't have to say the Bunny.
23:38
You can just use your finger if you want to.
23:41
And then it's still, I've got it.
23:42
It's not bunny's got it. You just adapt it.
23:45
You just adapt your words and you.
23:48
And if I'm doing it online, you, you draw gingerbread men instead
23:52
of drawing around the body, you get the person to draw their
23:54
gingerbread man. And so it it's yeah, it's
23:58
completely adaptable to everything.
24:00
Because in my opinion, we feel things now, I'm very
24:04
kinesthetic. So so would I, I would I use it
24:08
with somebody who was more auditory and, you know, into
24:13
their logical thing? Possibly not.
24:16
But most, most of my clients that see me are very feeling.
24:21
They, they're sometimes there aren't the words for it.
24:24
They just know it is that is that those words that are, but
24:28
that's not a word. Is it that, that, that those,
24:34
those aren't words, but they are feelings.
24:37
And where is that? You know, those guttural sounds,
24:41
those those frogs in your throat?
24:44
Is that choking? And what else is it?
24:46
Is it heavy? Is it so you know you, you.
24:49
Is it heavy? Is it light?
24:50
Is it cold, tingly? Is it spiky?
24:54
And people can generally get there with that.
24:56
And now they, and then they own it and they're writing it all
24:59
down. I mean, it's so exciting.
25:01
I I, I do, I get quite excited about it, as you can tell.
25:04
Yeah, that's it. When you define those
25:05
kinesthetic feelings, it it kind of it's like looking under the
25:09
the bed to see the monster. Once you define it, a lot of
25:11
that that kind of intensity can kind of go.
25:13
Away. And it's what I got a sense from
25:15
what you said before is that once you find that somatic
25:17
feeling in the body, the Bunny then kind of picks it out and
25:20
and kind of moves it or changes it.
25:22
And it sounds like you do lots of some modality changes there
25:26
as well. It's very somatic.
25:29
It's loads of submodalities. It's it's a lot of NLP in it.
25:33
I did tell Richard Bandler about it actually, and John Lavelle
25:37
and they absolutely loved it. Richard Bandler, I don't mind
25:40
saying, he said to me that needs to be in every school.
25:44
He loved it so, which is very exciting.
25:48
Amazing. And for you, Bob Lay, obviously
25:50
you've had a very distinguished and and long career as a as a
25:54
therapist. What have you found the Swan
25:57
particularly effective for, you know, compared to other things,
26:02
let's say is, is there a particular kind of issue or area
26:07
that you think, Yeah, that would be, you know, for any therapist
26:10
listing, they're like when, when is it best to use the Swan?
26:13
I'm always boring answer. I almost want to.
26:16
I almost want to apologize before I begin.
26:19
You know there's a saying out there.
26:21
It's one of my wife. She used to teach psychology at
26:24
university. And one of our.
26:25
Favorite sayings was we need to remember that everything in this
26:29
world is a construct. It's a good saying, and it's a
26:32
true saying. I mean, for example, we've got.
26:35
I believe we've got over 800 therapies out there, and I'll
26:39
bet you every one of these 800 people who constructed their
26:43
therapy believe that for the most part, it can handle.
26:46
Just about everything. No, that's not completely true
26:49
because someone will say I know I don't use it for this, I don't
26:51
use it for that, so on and so forth.
26:53
But. I would probably probably be one
26:56
of the majority who through. Practice the time I've spent
27:01
with it now. Knowing that so many 10s of
27:03
thousands who. Do it.
27:05
Are all saying the same thing that they find it can be.
27:08
At least useful with everything. We're not saying it's the best.
27:11
We're not saying it's the best for this.
27:13
We're saying. It's pretty good with.
27:14
Just about everything. I use it with kids.
27:17
I use it with a kid yesterday who's terrified of swimming and.
27:20
Suddenly I've got this girl who won't talk to anybody online
27:24
from 3 1/2. 1000 miles away, speaking away to me with this
27:28
one saying yes she'll do it. Mummy tells me today they're
27:31
into the water. She seemed to enjoy it.
27:33
And of course it comes back to the the Creator.
27:35
The. Therapist.
27:36
Me, the man who knows all, is sitting there being able to nod
27:40
his head and smile and explain what it's all about when at the
27:43
end of the day, in truth, I don't really know what it's all
27:46
about. And hold on, what?
27:49
It's almost like there's something within this one, and
27:51
maybe within all these other 800 therapies that's stronger than
27:54
all of us that knows things, that hasn't taught us everything
27:58
about that particular therapy. I don't know but simple answer
28:01
to your question, no, we'll have a go at anything I often see you
28:05
must do too. You'll see these things online,
28:07
but we certainly different groups will say no, you don't
28:10
want to do it for that or. I don't want to do it for this
28:13
somebody was horrified for. Example, on Saturday night I had
28:15
him to discover that I worked with paedophiles.
28:18
They found out, in fact, they were quite ugly towards me.
28:22
Yeah, and I wanted to tell him that paedophilia is an illness,
28:26
a person who's ill and then their their doctors who put them
28:30
on to me said can you help this man?
28:32
He doesn't touch kids. He was never going to need a
28:34
kid. If he did, I would take him to
28:36
the police. So.
28:38
But here's somebody with an illness.
28:40
Well, I. Did I do the?
28:41
Swan with pedophils, yes, I'll do this with with just about
28:45
anybody. In other words, I'll work with
28:47
anybody. Every time somebody says it's
28:49
not good for that, I often, I often think, why would you have
28:53
a therapy that's not good for something without trying?
28:58
So yes, this one's really great for lots of things, and I get
29:02
some good news as well. Because I'm sure Claudia has had
29:04
already. And we'll.
29:05
Get in the future. They'll tell.
29:06
Us, they work for something that we haven't used it for and we'll
29:09
go what? And it's you get this.
29:11
Lovely, nice surprise. And it worked well with that as
29:13
well. Yeah, that's what it's all
29:15
about. Yeah, amazing.
29:17
So. Tell us more about the the event
29:20
that you've got, because I think you said Claudia, is it, is it
29:22
January that it takes place? When When does it take place?
29:24
Yes, Saturday, January the 3rd. It's in Southampton, the Holiday
29:30
Inn, just near where Bob lives. And so yes, it's Saturday.
29:36
Well, I'll be there Friday night, Bob will be there Friday
29:38
night, so people can come and join then if they want to.
29:42
Bob's going to come along with his guitar and they'll be
29:46
singing. Don't ask me to sing.
29:48
Not very good. But yeah, it'll be a lot of fun.
29:53
Because actually, again, in my opinion, it's those
29:56
conversations that you have actually outside of the of the,
30:01
you know, the conference when you're when you're at
30:03
conferences and learning, it's the ones in the hallways.
30:06
The nearly always the best part of the workshop, the Friday
30:09
night just before it begins. I'd love, I'd love to say why
30:12
that is. It sounds dreadful.
30:13
But I tell you what, it's absolutely fantastic.
30:16
It really is. Well, it because everybody's
30:18
it's, I think it's the excitement for the, for the, you
30:21
know, what's coming up, You know, the anticipation, that
30:24
word. I love the word anticipation.
30:26
And then of course, the Saturday, the workshop will be
30:29
fun. It just will be.
30:30
It's very hands on and then there's loads of bonuses, but of
30:34
course we're going to be there on a Saturday night as well.
30:36
So it's again, it's that that collaboration, it's those
30:39
meaningful memories that people make when you are actually
30:44
together and you cannot do that on line.
30:49
There so it's an in person event in Southampton, it's a one day
30:53
event, but you're encouraging people to definitely be there on
30:56
the Friday before just to kind of get the magic that that
31:00
happens and who's it for? Because some people will be
31:03
listening that they like listening to hypnotherapy, but
31:07
they're not a hypnotherapist. Some people will be beginning
31:11
therapist, other people very experienced.
31:13
Is it for a particular person at A at a certain level in their
31:17
therapy career or could people that aren't therapist also
31:20
benefit? Well, it will be cheaper than
31:24
having therapy. So if they want to have, have
31:28
any, they can come along and be worked on as simple as that, you
31:32
know, and meet people. And then of course, if there's
31:34
any coaches who are business coaches, they will be coming
31:38
along and meeting them too. It's a, these are two fabulous
31:41
tools. I, I believe one of the main
31:44
things that people are going to get from this is you kick at the
31:46
backside to start your new year because we all know that when
31:52
you have that at the beginning of the year, it sets you up.
31:55
And we have some fabulous bonuses here because Bob is
32:00
offering another one hour conversation with him to help
32:04
you see, see where you're at in your business.
32:06
That's a bonus. And then they get the two day
32:09
online workshop with me in March because they do want to make
32:14
sure that everybody body understands all my version of
32:17
the emotional intelligence. And because it does take a long
32:20
time, well, not a long time, but it does.
32:22
I want to make sure people know this process well and feel it
32:25
and understand it. Plus there's the Facebook group.
32:28
So actually if anybody is is a newbie, they can come.
32:33
It's for coaches, it's for therapists.
32:36
I piloted this to 12 therapists in America two years ago.
32:43
So it's still a fairly brand new all of this and they loved it
32:47
and they're using it and they are the hardest people to to
32:52
sort of coach if you like other therapists.
32:55
And yeah, they got it. They understood it.
32:59
So and they could see the benefit of using this with
33:03
children. At that point I didn't know it.
33:05
Was so if I could sit in there because you've frozen, by the
33:08
way. Did I freeze?
33:13
Yeah. But you're OK again.
33:16
OK, so I was going to say at yeah, at that point I didn't
33:20
know it was going to be useful for, for for in a child work as
33:25
well. It was only when I was
33:27
presenting on this in hypnothoughts and other places
33:33
conferences and people were having transformations from
33:37
something that they had in that when they were a child, as we
33:40
all just went, oh, this isn't just for children.
33:44
This is in a child work. This is big.
33:47
And so, yeah, it's it's very exciting.
33:50
So people who want to work with adults as well, you don't have
33:53
to specialized in children, but you could now.
33:57
You could if you wanted to. Because we do know that people
34:00
will actually care for their children more than themselves,
34:05
which is. A shame.
34:06
Very true. So we'll make sure there is a
34:08
link to the event in the show notes.
34:11
So anyone listening right now that you want to learn more
34:13
about this dates, location, prices, we'll make sure there's
34:17
a link there so you can kind of figure out all of that.
34:21
It's it's January, you're going to learn about this one, you're
34:23
going to learn about the Bunny talk and it seems like it's
34:26
going to be good fun as well. Is there anything that either of
34:30
you want to? To add at this point.
34:34
Well, just as as Claudia froze there and I came in, I was going
34:39
to say that. We'll be throwing in a couple.
34:41
Of bonuses as well at him. I mean, last year I did a couple
34:44
things face to face. I got 2 fairly good.
34:48
Sized groups to come to Southampton all the way to spend
34:51
one day with me. And that was a whole day.
34:53
Can you imagine that? 8 hours on ice breaking.
34:56
Just on ice breaking now I think.
34:59
A one hour would be a. Good session on ice breaking.
35:02
Three to four hours would be ridiculous, but I spent 8 hours
35:05
on ice breaking and so we'll do a little.
35:10
Bit about the whole level. By that I mean I'm going to show
35:12
everybody who turns up. I will give them three.
35:15
Things that I promise they will use every day if they like, for
35:20
the rest of their life. And.
35:22
They'll. Blow people away with it.
35:23
Just three small. Ice breaks so for me.
35:26
In my. Nature, the kind of person I am,
35:28
I open up everything with an ice break every session I begin
35:32
with. I've got some lines.
35:33
And some things I'm going to do that will break the ice
35:36
completely so that the person sitting across to me simply.
35:38
Goes and then we can. Then we can get into.
35:41
It and say, hey, why are you here anyway?
35:43
So we're going to have a. Real.
35:45
I'm going to. Have a real special?
35:46
Session session on the ice. Breaks alone.
35:49
We'll see where. We get from there, but I'm sure
35:50
it'll be fun. Amazing.
35:53
Well, it's very exciting. We'll make sure the link is in
35:55
the in the description. So anyone listening, definitely
35:57
check that out. Claudia Bob, you know, very
36:01
highly respected in the world of, of hypnotherapy.
36:03
You're going to learn a lot in one day.
36:06
It sounds like the bonuses are going to be very useful as well.
36:09
Claudia, Bob, thank you so much for joining me on The Hypnotist
36:12
today. Pleasure harness, Adam.
36:14
Thank you for having us. Thank you, Adam.
36:17
Thank you very much for having us.
36:20
Thank you so much for. Joining me on today's episode of
36:24
The Hypnotist. If you've enjoyed this episode
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