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"Come as you are".......Fake News? · Unashamed Table Talk

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me ask you this.
0:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that in general there's always the loophole?
0:07
SPEAKER_02: But do you think in general that the church does a good job at loving sinners?
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Why?
0:20
SPEAKER_01: How?
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Because if they didn't, we wouldn't even the doors wouldn't even be open.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Because the whole church is full of sinners.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Every one of us are sinners.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Every church does not do a good job at it.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Every American restaurant doesn't make good tacos either.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: That's but I can't go back and anyways.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: You try again.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: So the doors wouldn't be opened if they didn't do a good job loving all.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: I think that there is I think that you cannot say that the church as a whole does not do a good job at loving sinners when one person might have been a jerk or a jaquad to a sinner because of a sin.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: And then say, well, the church doesn't love sinners.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, you just say you can come, but you can't really be apart.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: And I just don't think that's real.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, my ex my personal experience.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, okay, I have had some bad church experiences.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: I have.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: And so we've talked about this a hundred times on podcasts, on the stage, in different places.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Church hurt is real, and there is it's just real.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, and I'm not gonna argue that because there are mean people in the church, and church leadership can hurt you, and church nobody's can hurt you.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: People hurt people.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: But in general, I believe that the a good church welcomes all people.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: I believe it because I was welcomed.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: I I was so caught up in my own brokenness and my sin.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: At the time that I got saved, I had gone back to stripping because we had just had our house fire and I was trying to recover money.
2:08
unknown: Right.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: And ended up going to work at the tea room.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Again, this is no news to nobody, but I went back to work at the went to work at the tea room, left the club, finally forever.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know it was gonna be forever.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: But because at that time in my life, any kind, any kind of financial burden, I would just go back and work for a week or two, you know, a night or two, make some fast cash, easy money, quote unquote easy money, and then pay the bill, get the hot water heater, whatever it was, and then go back to my normal life, normal job.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Even up until that point.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: And so I had literally been working at the club right the weekend before I went to work at the tea room, where I was literally welcomed to the table of a bunch of Christians that just loved me where I was at.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: So those of you who are listening, man, we just started hard heavy today, didn't we?
3:07
SPEAKER_01: We have uh normally we start off just laughing and being goofy, but today we've just kind of gotten wound up about a couple of things.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: We've been uh on social media and just tick-tock, listening to some people's opinions about things, and then we uh basically just got into a discussion about it ourselves, and and so we were like, okay, we gotta we gotta hit record because this is the topic of stuff that we like to talk about.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: And so um I you know I I believe that every church probably has has people that walk into it that walk out that same day probably feeling like they were not loved well that day, or they were not seen, or they didn't feel comfortable or something like that.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: And there's bad churches.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: There is.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: There are bad churches that are just terrible at welcoming people.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Sure, there is.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: But I just think about like there's a there's a church um that I'm I think about like I've I've known the Lord, I feel comfortable when I go to church, and I've gone to the same church forever, right?
4:23
SPEAKER_01: But there's a particular church that I have gone to several times, like during the holidays or something, to hear um their choir or something like that.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: And those the people at that church, it's a great church, and they're great people at that church.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Like they they do well, they do things in the community, they love each other, they love people well.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: But I would walk into the church and automatically, because that's not my church home, then I walk in, and when no one comes up and says hello to me or shakes my hand or says anything to me, um, I feel at the time like they're not being very um welcoming, right?
5:08
SPEAKER_01: And so I can go in there, listen to the choir thing, see my friend or two that I may have there, hug their neck, and I'm ready to get out of there because I don't feel comfortable because one, I don't know anybody.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: The other thing is no one has approached me.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not approaching people because it's not my church.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm just sitting, right?
5:28
SPEAKER_01: But then I walk out of there feeling like it's not a very welcoming church.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: But that's that's not necessarily true because I have gotten to know some of the people now and I know it's a great church.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I already knew it was a great church, but because I walk in and I'm expecting people to act a certain way and they don't, then automatically you get these feelings, you know?
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, and sometimes, and let's just be real, we can have this like invisible but firm wall around us.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: And we walk in with this air of like, go ahead and approach me and say hi.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: Welcome me, you know, but your face and your body language is like already, you're already prejudging them.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, I ain't going over to that lady.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: A lot of things come into play, you know, when you go into a church.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: You go into a church that has 200 people in it, and you've walked in for the first time on a Sunday morning, and you there's two different kinds of people.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: There's the people, the person that walks in and they want people to see them and welcome them, right?
6:34
SPEAKER_01: And then there's the person that walks in that's like, please don't talk to me, please don't talk to me.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, my sister's one of those.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, there was a time at my church, she was she loved my pastor's preaching.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: She still does to this day, but she's like, Y'all are just too friendly.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, y'all just, y'all are like, leave me alone.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I just, if I could just go to the bathroom or, you know, hide out somewhere and listen, like she wants to be there and be a part, but she is very introverted.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: She does not do people and she does not do attention well at all.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: And she was like, y'all just, and then we we don't do anymore since COVID, but we used to call it huggy time.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, you just, you know, we we made that up.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: That's not what the church called it.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, but just real.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: No, but it was, you know, it's like huggy time.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: No, no, the church did not do that.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: That wasn't what we would call it.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're like, you know, you hug your new people around the vino.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna like check the person to the left, check the person to the right.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: We didn't do it, it wasn't the hogie pokey stuff, but it was like just a greeting time.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did the same thing.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: We still do.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: We don't.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: We'll well, I guess we just we stopped at COVID and then we just never started again.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: But we still be loving people.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: But we just do all our huggy time before we sit down, you know.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: So but yeah, she didn't she doesn't want that.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: And you like but I would rather be known for the church that's too friendly than the church that's rude.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: So uh welcoming people.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we've we both believe that everyone should be welcomed into the church.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: No matter if you know Jesus or you don't.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Matter of fact, the people who don't know Jesus, they should be the very top.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: They they're the the uh what do you the that's our that's our that's our person of honor.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Like they're the uh guest of honor that yeah, you know, right?
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Because that is what we're seeking is for people to come in.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think about um I don't remember if it's a uh play.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Was it a play or a something?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: No, a pastor did this.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: He went into his church and he was dressed like a homeless man.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: You remember that?
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And he goes in and he walks into the back and he sits on the back row or the or something like that, and he was waiting to see how his congregation was going to receive him, and he had like this hair done, and smell and these clothes, and so people didn't recognize that he was the pastor to see.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's the question, like, and it even talks about it in the Bible.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you, you know, bring in that that person, you know, how is your church going to receive that that person that comes off the street?
9:14
SPEAKER_01: That one that comes in that's hung over from the night before that sm still smells like alcohol.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Um that the girl who's dressed looking like a hooker because she is one.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Or that is the young single lady who comes in that's pregnant and everybody knows that she's not married and first thing you do is look at the wedding ring and it's empty.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whatever.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, like how do you you say that everyone's welcome.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I just believe that really everyone is welcome into the church.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Now, it's like a song that you had playing a while ago, you know, come to the table.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's welcome.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: The point of welcoming everyone there is so that they can come to a place to be redeemed.
9:57
unknown: Yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Because we're all sinners there.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: And even the ones who have already been redeemed, we're coming to be be redeemed again.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're not, you know what I mean?
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Like we're coming to repent for our sins that we've we've done that we.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that those of us that know the Lord are perfect when we come in.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: We're coming in seeking the same grace and the same mercy as the person who has never accepted Christ for the first time.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: And I think that there are there's different roles and different seasons of church too.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Like there are times when I believe that as a strong believer and lover in Jesus, that I have responsibilities and gifts and talents that I should be serving my church.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Like it's this is just random, but like tomorrow I'm helping with a funeral at my church.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't do funerals, but I'm helping with a funeral.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And so, but like there are times where you just need to serve in your church.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: If you're available and you have the time and the availability, then you should just serve.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: And then there's other times where I have been broken and I'm just not in a spot, like I just need to be loved.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's okay in different seasons.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the bottom line is that if you are not a believer or if you are in active sin of whatever your sin is, you know, then you I truly believe that it it and it the thing is is that it if it's known, if it's not known, we can't do anything about it.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: That's where the church leadership has to be very prayerful, like God protect us from people that are not living right or doing right or not believers or whatever.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you are actively in sin and you are not a believer, it is our responsibility as church leadership, as ministry leaders, to protect the congregation from being led away or led by someone who doesn't believe what we believe scripturally.
12:03
unknown: Right.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: That's what I believe.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why would why would you put someone in leadership to teach the word, to direct people through the word, if that particular person is not living the word themselves?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not that like that makes no sense to me.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Like that's even with in a business or something.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Like you're not going to put somebody leading in a certain business if they are not educated in that area, if they're not living that, if they're not you're not gonna put somebody over your finances in your business if they're going down to the boats every weekend and they're losing their own, they're not good with their own money.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna put that person to be over your accounting for your business when you know they're down there every other day spending their own money at the casino?
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Like that would be a or an addict opening a bar.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Or a thief.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Would you want a thief to be the manager of your store?
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, no, you don't.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, why would like why would you put that temptation in there?
13:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, right, you know.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: So, but at church, everyone is welcome, everyone's a sinner, but there has to come this time that you you feel the presence of the Holy Spirit calling you, and that that time comes where you get redeemed, that you realize that that living in sin that you're doing, that it doesn't please the Lord, it doesn't please you, that it's causing more harm than good.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: There comes a place time where you're just like, I can't do this anymore.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're living in sin and going to church, there's going to be a war within you.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: If I'm living in sin and I'm not going to church and I'm not seeking out God, then I will probably be perfectly happy because I'm living in my sin and just living life before I come to know the Lord, right?
13:57
SPEAKER_01: I partied, I cussed like a sailor.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: I didn't think anything about it.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: I was dropping some F bombs every other word, and thought there was nothing wrong with it.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Everybody I hung out with, that's how we talked.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: There was nothing wrong with it.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even hear it.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even hear it.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Like that's just how we talked, right?
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And I lived this whole life doing these things, and I didn't think anything was wrong with it at all.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: But there came a time in my life I got tired of who I was because deep down, none of that stuff was satisfying what was missing in my life.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: So then when I do go to church to make mama happy, you know, then I see, I always say this, I see some people in the church who look completely content, full of joy.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: They look like they really love Jesus.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: But also some people in the church didn't look any different than me.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: They might have been raising hands, but I was like on their face, I'm like, but do you really mean those words that you're singing right now?
14:53
SPEAKER_01: You know?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: But I wanted, when I saw that joy that others had, I wanted that because I could tell there was a peace that they had, and I didn't have that peace.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So then when I do finally accept Christ, now I'm it was even before I accepted Christ, there started this war because I found out there was something better and that it wasn't okay to live the life I wanted and I I was living, and I thought I wanted something over here, you know, that was better in church.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: So then when I'd go out and get drunk on the weekend or do dope or both, do all the things, you know, then I felt crappy about it because I liked who I was when I was in church, but I didn't like who I was out there.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't fulfilling, it was a temporary thing.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: So I was welcomed in the church, right?
15:41
SPEAKER_01: But if God had to do had to stir in my heart changer, I couldn't teach a life group then.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have wanted to.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna teach?
15:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't even understand it my own self because I'm living in sin.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not gonna lead in prayer.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: I ain't even praying at home.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Don't call me on, bruh.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, like well, it's like to me, I think about, I mean, just in like stupid thoughts, but you're not gonna go to work at McDonald's, Frank's by the high school, and become the COO.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Like you've got to work your way up.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: You gotta you gotta figure out how to do the cash register and then the drive-thru and then the fry machine and then the Big Macs, and you can then you can start making schedules and you and you work your way up.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't you don't start off as the pastor when you visit the first cert, you know, the first day.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: You just don't.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: And it I think it I think that there are some safeguards that we have done in different churches do it differently, but like I think standard, pretty standard, and there's always the exception to the rule, but you have to be a member, an active member for at least a year before you can teach Sunday school class.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: I think that's just a safeguard.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Not that some idiot can't fool a person or a church for a year, because they can.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: The enemy can get in, they're they're good.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: He's you know, the enemy's good at that.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: But in general, you have to prove yourself, and that's why we take letters of recommendations as for deep for deacons and for you know elders and church leadership.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, like you don't necessarily have to wait a gajillion years before you if you move or change churches, but there has to be some kind of reference that says this person is proven true, they love the Lord, they are secure and sound in their faith, it's okay for them to have this role or whatever, you know.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: So the question is this, and and the reason we're talking about this right now is it's just this um statement was made is that you can be welcome.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: We say you're everyone's welcome, but because the one who has not accepted Christ or the one who's living in sin, the one who is living in a particular sin can't be in leadership, then then the statement is basically we're lying, saying you're welcome because we're not letting them be a part, because we're not letting them be in leadership.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: We're just saying, really, we're not we're saying you're welcome, but what we're really saying is you can just be a spectator.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the statement.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: So uh, but I disagree with that.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: I disagree with that too.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I I believe that they're welcome there.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: They're a part of the church, and they're a part of the church by showing up on Sundays, by being a part, they're building relationships, they're finding friends, they're finding people that can um that are people that are loving on them right where they are, trying to counsel or to help them.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: But look, you can only help somebody as much as they want to be helped too.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, but but first off, what's wrong with being a spectator?
18:39
SPEAKER_02: Why is that bad all of a sudden?
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Like my my new my baby grandson, oh, he is a soccer star.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: It's World Cup time right now, and we're like, like he's gonna be a World Cup, World Cup winner someday.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Like he's all into the soccer thing, but he has played two games now, and we're going in as spectators, and it's freaking fun.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to get out there and kick the ball with him.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm learning how to play soccer by watching six-year-olds play soccer.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm a spectator learning how to do this sport.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think that as a center, as a brand new center, being pursued and called by the Holy Spirit to come to a church, there is nothing wrong with me being a spectator, watching how you're living, watching how you respond when you get mad at your husband, watching how you respond when your light bill comes in and your baby account's empty.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: That's what that's the point of spectating.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: So, why is that all of a sudden a critical term and unwelcoming when I'm saying come spectate?
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And you're saying you're welcome to come.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: And see, is this something you want?
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to be a part of this?
19:47
SPEAKER_02: I think everybody that loves themselves should come watch my grandson play soccer on Saturday morning.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Like it is the best joy in the world.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: It's so fun.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you, you're a spectator there.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: You're not out coaching.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you're a part of it?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, more than him, probably.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you feel welcome there?
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: You feel like you're a part of it?
20:08
SPEAKER_01: You feel like people want you to be there?
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And and so you don't have to be coaching or sitting on the bench or over there with the kids or even having a role and keeping them calm or whatever while they're I don't even know nothing.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: But I, you know what?
20:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting on the bench.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm over here in baseball because we're a baseball family.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, we've just gotten done with baseball.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: And the dugout, you know, that mom in the dugout.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: That was my daughter.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: That was my daughter three weeks ago.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Like we survived T-ball season and now we've gone into soccer, and it's brand new for us.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: We we've never had anybody in our family that's played soccer.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: This is indoor soccer.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just telling you, it's been the most exciting thing for our family.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: All of us were obsessed.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: And he's so good.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Like he just somehow knows how to play.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: He's just like, well, I just knew.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: I just knew how to play.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: And so it's so funny because he's so animated.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: But like he really did just know how to play.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: He just picked it up.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you're kicking a ball.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, six-year-old, oh, I can kick a ball all over.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: He scored a goal last week.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: You would have thought angels in heaven were rejoicing the way we reacted.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: And we were just spectators.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so again, my point is is why is it all of a sudden a negative thing to say you can come and be welcomed, but only spectate?
21:29
SPEAKER_02: Am I saying the right word?
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Is that a wrong word?
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Is that the right thing?
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: But uh you got what you're saying.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: But let's think about it from a um a different point of view, like coming into church.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: The reason you why do people go to church to begin with?
21:42
SPEAKER_01: If I don't already know Jesus, okay, and and I'm not a Christian.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: You're seeking.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Why would I go to Jesus?
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm seeking.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to church to seek out is this what I want?
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Is this people for real?
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Are these people for real?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: And so when I walk in the door.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And they welcome me and say, come on in or whatever.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: And I feel come to the dinner Wednesday night.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Come to RA Monday night.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, join us.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's not about you're not good enough to serve.
22:13
unknown: Right.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: It's not about that.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: It it's really.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: None of us are, but none of us are.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Facts.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: None, no person in leadership is good enough to serve.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: I am not good enough.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: I promise you that is true.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm not good enough to do this podcast right here.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: I live in sin all the time.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: I mess up in sin.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not sure.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: She does, y'all.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: She does.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: I know.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: We're all sinners.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: I know.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, I said live in sin.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't live in sin.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: But you sin.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Because I sin on the daily.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Right?
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And it might not be, but for a second, it might be a thought.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: It might be a judgmental attitude.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And thank the Lord the sins I have now are not the sins that I used to have.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, we've we've already talked about that here.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, but when you're talking about going to church, you're going anywhere, anyway.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: You're going there to seek out, is this for me?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: And that one church might not be for you.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: But you also cannot bash Christians and bash the church because one church hurt you or one Christian hurt you or whatever.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Like you can't throw them all in the same or I don't know, I don't the the the clips that we've been watching are not specific to this, but like I don't know what you may have done and were told no you can't do for whatever reason.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't I don't know, I don't know what that is.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: But being told no that you can't serve in a certain capacity, and there's a lot of stuff going on right now with women preachers in the Southern Baptist Church, and um like there's all this hoopla and all this stuff, but like I don't know what you've been told you can or cannot do, but there are safeguards that are important for us to have as a church, as a ministry.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've talked about it within the Unashamed Ministry, but we didn't want to become a nonprofit because we don't want to take the risk of having a board that can ultimately decide to take this in a completely different direction than the way the Lord led us to start it.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: So for that reason, we choose to be a nonprofiting for-profit.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, exactly.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Because it's a safeguard.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: We we're gonna hold each other accountable.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Our goal is the same.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I pray our goal will always be the same.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but our goal is the same, and we both know that we are nothing but some sorry sinners that love Jesus and have been redeemed, and we want to help other women find that as well.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: And it you're right, like we're gonna be selfish in that.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Even when we have people help, we might ask some opinions, but at the end of the day, it comes down to we're deciding what we're doing, right?
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Because we know that our our our goal is the same, the end goal is the same.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: And so we're not gonna ask somebody to come in and lead something.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um even when it comes to speakers, yeah.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: That our guest speakers that we have come.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna just grab any guest speakers just because she sounded good and she was excited.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Um we're gonna find out, yeah, you know, what's who is this girl?
25:15
SPEAKER_01: What does she believe?
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Where does she come from?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: How long has she been doing this?
25:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, worship.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, what do they believe?
25:23
SPEAKER_01: What is what are their thoughts on who Jesus is?
25:26
SPEAKER_01: How long have they been in church?
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Do they serve there's all kinds of places?
25:30
SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be more than just for the show.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: We want dynamic speakers and and worship leaders, but it if their heart is not right, then they're not for us.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: And and when you become a nonprofit or and and other people have a say so, then you're susceptible to that.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: I've seen nonprofits that this has happened to.
25:53
SPEAKER_02: And so, really, you know, as God began to bless this ministry, we really battled.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: Do we try to go the nonprofit route?
26:00
SPEAKER_02: And we both just very much felt like, no, we would rather, first off, I've seen nonprofits have a lot of money in their banks, and I would rather have, again, a not profitable for-profit ministry than a nonprofit ministry that is open to other people coming in and making bad choices.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, is the church good at welcoming everyone?
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I think yes.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: As a whole.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: As a whole, yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: I think yes.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: There are some that do not, but as a whole, we believe that the church is is working.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: Um there are there are places in every church that needs uh growth, that needs to change.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: There's there's and there's bad people in every church.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: The church, we've talked about, you know, I get on a pet peeve about I get upset when people start bashing the church.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: It bothers me.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Because for m multiple reasons.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: But one is the church is supposed to be a holy place.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: It's it is a place that represents Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and it's to be respected, and it's a holy place to me, right?
27:15
SPEAKER_01: But then the other thing is that the church is the people, not the building.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: The building represents the church, right?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: But it's the people in the church that makes it what it is.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: And so we as Christians are the church.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: For one Christian to bash other Christians, to bash the church, to me, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Like you're bashing your own people.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, right, stop.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: Who hurt you?
27:43
SPEAKER_01: What happened here?
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Where is this coming from?
27:45
SPEAKER_01: I think we have to be very, very careful.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Even we just have to be careful.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it goes all back, it goes back to Peter and this the two scriptures, Matthew 16, 18, and then Luke 22.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: We talked about this last time or a couple weeks ago.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: We just touched on it and it wasn't really part of the podcast, but it came up again.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, but where Jesus, you know, basically says, Satan wants to sift you like wheat, uh, but I have prayed for you so that you won't sin.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: And then if you stop there, then it then you're like, oh, he doesn't sin.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: But but we know that Peter denies him three times right after this, you know?
28:27
SPEAKER_02: And so um, but but the key part of that scripture, it goes on, and I'm I don't have my Bible open right in front of me, but read it because it's got yours open.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: This is uh Luke 22, starting in verse 31.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: It says, Simon Simon, Satan had had Satan has asked, that's a whole podcast right there on yes.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: That's so good to me.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: And then in Matthew 16, 18, this is where God Jesus says, like, I'm gonna build my church upon you.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Like you're you're the foundation of the church.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: This is after he's denied, and this is after, like it's it's it's this is huge.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: And it just to me, it says that you you're welcome.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Come at one point, he was just an old dirty, rotten, cussing sailor fisherman, and now he's fixing to be the foundation of the church.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: It's a big deal.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: It's a huge deal, you know, it's huge.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And and I love that the scripture as well because like I was thinking about it this morning in my quiet time.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about the scriptures where Jesus says, But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, Jesus is his his prayer wasn't answered.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but but okay, but but was it not answered?
29:47
SPEAKER_02: He says your faith has not failed.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: Just because you fall short doesn't mean your faith might have not failed.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: So maybe just because Peter felt Peter sinned, sure, that doesn't mean his faith failed.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Because I sin way more than I want, but my faith That's true.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: If I if I'm living in sin, that's different.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: My faith is failing, right?
30:08
SPEAKER_02: But if I just sin, if I screw up, I don't know that that means my faith failed.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, in the scripture, though, he's saying that your faith should not fail.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: But then the very night, I'm like in the same breath, the very next breath, this isn't even another verse.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: The same sentence he says, so when you have repented, yeah, and turn to me again.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: So here's the thing.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: There's just so much in these two sentences.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: I need to just do a whole talk just on this.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: But he knows he's going to fail.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: His faith is failing because he sins.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: He denies him.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: If he believed him, he like he believed him, right?
30:49
SPEAKER_01: He knew Jesus was who he said he was, like he believed that.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, he says, even I mean, just another few sentences down, even to the death I will go with you.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: So in verse 33, Peter said, Lord, I'm ready to go to prison with you and even to die with you.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: And then Jesus says, Peter, let me tell you something.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Before the rooster crows tomorrow morning, you will deny three times that you even know me.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: And then right up above, he says, I'm praying that your faith will not fail.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like, to me, his faith did fail.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: I think his faith did fail.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: But I don't, but it didn't, but here's the deal.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: You're only a failure if you don't get back up, right?
31:26
SPEAKER_01: And so our faith wavers.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: My faith wavers.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: I believe it's that whole scripture, Lord, I believe.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Help me with my unbelief.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Right?
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I want that tattoo so bad.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm ready for a new tattoo.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: We need to go do it.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: We chase so many rabbits.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: But that's why we're so fun.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: We're a mess.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Those of you listening are like, oh my gosh, wrap this up.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Please stop dogging.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I want, let's let's uh take time and really break this down on another podcast, these scriptures right here.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: This in this right here, we see he praises, faith won't fail, but he turns right back around and he says, But when you have repented, turn to me again.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: And that right there tells me that the Lord knows he has accepted us.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: He said, You are all welcome, and already know that you're going to deny me three times.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Denise, you are welcome into my house and already know you're you're gonna fail me a cajon times.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, but that's but that's the whole gospel wrapped up though in a pre-roll boat.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: That's why he died on the cross.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: He he died while we were yet sinners.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: Like he died on the cross before I was even born, before I even was conceived and thought of and had a chance to be born and turned into a life of sin.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: He had already known and and pre-died, pre-paid for all of my sin.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: So in advance, in advance, already done.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: I was already welcomed at the table.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: That right there, that like you said, we are welcome.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: The church is the church scripturally is the people of God.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And if you're listening today right now and you're like, but I've sinned too much, you don't know what I've done.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Look, God says he loves you anyway.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: He already died for you.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: He's already paid the penalty for your sin.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: And he's paid the penalty for mine.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: And he loves you no matter what.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a church home, find one.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Every church is not a great church.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: And even if you go to a church and you only get to be a quote unquote spectator for a minute, be a spectator.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: Watch them, soak it in, worship, test them, make sure that they are living out what scripture says.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: Being a spectator is not a bad thing.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: It is it's in fact, it's it's a needed thing.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: Even if you are a strong, faith-filled, mature Christian, if you go to a new church, you should go in as a spectator and and watch and learn if their leadership is good.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: I just, I don't know.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: There was just something about the verbiage of this specific video that we watched that just bugged me.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Like why are you making that a negative with worship?
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: Like that just, oh, it just irked me.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's not bad to be a spectator.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: And it's not, it's not on either side, it's not bad for church leadership to not allow new people, especially if they are unbelievers or you don't know what they haven't proven that they by their actions, you know, the fruit from their trees haven't blossomed.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: And so you don't know what they believe or what they are, to then say, oh, well, here you come lead this group of people in our church.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: That's foolishness.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Foolishness.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: It's even like the the the things that we've listened to on social media.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Even those people who put that kind of stuff out and they may be going like viral and having all this stuff out there.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Look, they wouldn't ask someone to come in and give them the job to start taking care of their whole social media account if they didn't have any.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, why would you hire if you don't even have a TikTok, why would you hire someone to come run your TikTok?
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Bam.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: It don't make no sense.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: See y'all next week.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, we won't see you, no.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you next week.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll hear us next week.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, goodness.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to Table Talk with BJ Garrett and Denise Bowens.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: To support this ministry through prayer or giving, visit our website at unashamedww.com.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: May you be encouraged, rooted in truth, and unashamed.